While I don't advocate throwing your helmet at the pitcher, I don't think it's cool to attach the pitcher with your helmet on either. That's not a fair fight. And the helmet throw did look kinda half-hearted like he wasn't really trying to nail Porcello with it. I may be wrong, and I'm fine with being wrong, but I'm going to choose to believe that Youk was just getting rid of the helmet so he could fight fair.
Barndog- I was thinking the same thing about this getting the team charged up like it did in '04. It got me charged up! I'm glad to see there's still some fire in the belly of the team.
Sorry but if I am getting a baseball thrown in the direction of my head at 90+ mph then I have every right to throw my helmet at him!!!!Let him dodge it> dirtmonkey he wasn't thrown down like a girl it was momentum and he just turned to get his weight going the right way.
<< <i>Sorry but if I am getting a baseball thrown in the direction of my head at 90+ mph then I have every right to throw my helmet at him!!!!Let him dodge it> dirtmonkey he wasn't thrown down like a girl it was momentum and he just turned to get his weight going the right way. >>
Yes, I saw it... Bytchwhipped like a girl I don't care TBH. Baseball fights are such a joke for the most part. A bunch of guys fronting and acting like they're being held back. Still kinda funny to watch though.
So, here's the real question...Youk gets 5 games and a fine, Porcello gets 5 games and a fine. Youk is a starting position player, Porcello is in a 5-man rotation. All the Tigers have to do is move Porcello's next start back one day and he in essence serves no real penalty except for the fine. Youk OTOH gets nailed for 5 actual games, which impact Tito's lineup, not to mention losing Youk's defense and offensive play during the 5 games he sits. Porcello OTOH plays with his gameboy for 5 days and is probably LHAO over the "suspension".
How is this a fair penalty?
Forget Jackson, he was just wanting to fight and had no business getting so cranked up.
<< <i>So, here's the real question...Youk gets 5 games and a fine, Porcello gets 5 games and a fine. Youk is a starting position player, Porcello is in a 5-man rotation. All the Tigers have to do is move Porcello's next start back one day and he in essence serves no real penalty except for the fine. Youk OTOH gets nailed for 5 actual games, which impact Tito's lineup, not to mention losing Youk's defense and offensive play during the 5 games he sits. Porcello OTOH plays with his gameboy for 5 days and is probably LHAO over the "suspension".
How is this a fair penalty?
Forget Jackson, he was just wanting to fight and had no business getting so cranked up. >>
the intent of the suspension is to punish the player. Each loses five games worth of pay. The fact that Youkilis' suspension hurts his team more than Porcello's may influence Youkilis to have his pitcher take care of the issue next time.
Didn't see the game tonight (moving to NH, so will be without media for a few days), but read about it online. Coolest thing was that Remy visited the park and interviewed with Orsillo.
<< <i>So, here's the real question...Youk gets 5 games and a fine, Porcello gets 5 games and a fine. Youk is a starting position player, Porcello is in a 5-man rotation. All the Tigers have to do is move Porcello's next start back one day and he in essence serves no real penalty except for the fine. Youk OTOH gets nailed for 5 actual games, which impact Tito's lineup, not to mention losing Youk's defense and offensive play during the 5 games he sits. Porcello OTOH plays with his gameboy for 5 days and is probably LHAO over the "suspension".
How is this a fair penalty?
Forget Jackson, he was just wanting to fight and had no business getting so cranked up. >>
Well by the same measure, Youk charging the mound after the pitch screwed the Tigers worse than Boston for that game. Detroit lost their SP, who was kicking arse, while the Sox only lost a guy who bats once every 9 times... It isn't usually fair that way either, but dems da breaks
Al - I know what you mean. I have always thought that suspensions for pitchers should be longer so that the pitcher actually has to get skipped in the rotation and not just bounced back a day (which seems like it just rewards him and gives him an extra day to rest). Although Barndog makes a good point about their pay. It wouldn't be fair to double up the monetary punishment on a pitcher.
Barndog - moving back to New England from Texas? Are you excited?
Somehow there is a more stringent punishment handed out to Youkilis as he is an everyday player...Porcello OTOH would be sitting down for the next 4 days anyway. The impact is greater on the Red Sox team as a whole, thus the added problem to Francona and the other 24 players with position assignments. Therefore, I see no value in suspending either player, but more of a monetary fine which clearly balances the scales. Again, Jackson is a non-issue here, he was just livid and wanting to fight. I think MLB was a bit overreactive with the suspension of games, clearly Youkilis got the short end of the deal. We need to remember that Youkilis got whacked two nights in a row, the first resulted in a glare at the pitcher, the second was just pissed off aggression...and probably a "you can't do that crap to me again" kinda thing.
Therefore, my position is there is no fair value in suspensions for pitchers vs everyday players if both are given "time out" for a period of time. Suspensions don't hurt pitchers, assuming the suspension is for 5 days or less. Now if two everyday players get 5 days, that's fine with me, more equal in impact.
Barndog...
Where in NH are you moving to? I've spent a good deal of time in Nashua and Concord, with a dabbling of Manchester and Laconia. Buy your snowblower early while they may still be on sale!! GL with the new digs. I have relatives in Nashua and Loudon.
And yes, it was great to see the Remdawg at Fenway last night. I thought he was gonna choke up and cry at the ovation he got and when he talked about all the cards and letters...even some from the Bronx!! It'll be good to have him back in the booth, although I do like Eck...NOT Dave Roberts.
I realize I'm not a Red Sox fan, so I may be biased....
But if there was no intent in Porcello's pitch, which I believe there wasn't and he was clearly backing away as Youkilis charged, should Porcello even have been ejected - much less suspended?
Not faulting Youkilis for charging, he's been hit a lot and sometimes you have to stand up and say your not going to take it anymore regardless of intent. There were no punches thrown, so I really don't think Porcello should have been ejected or suspended.
If the hitter charges, regardless of the pitcher's intent, which no one will really ever know, he's going to get ejected from the game, and 99 times out of 100 suspended. A similiar situation happened to the Rangers in Seattle in 2007 or 2008. A couple of Rangers had gotten plunked and Kason Gabbard (former Red Sox great) threw a pitch that was head level to Richie Sexson, but it was over the plate, a foot from Sexson's head. If the pitch was belt level it would have been a strike. Sexson charged, threw his helmet at Gabbard when he was 2 feet from the pitcher. Gabbard went down, Sexson tackled him and got a couple of punches in, before the benches broke it up. Not only was Gabbard not suspended, but he wasn't fined or ejected from the game. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
Lets do the math here. If both players are suspended 5 games each what does that mean?
An every day player IE someone who might play all 162 games a season (big if I know) would be missing this percentage of his normal games played
5/162= 3.08% of games missed
A pitcher is normally in a 5 man rotation so he should get about 32 starts a year. A 5 game suspension means he possibly misses one start.
1/32= 3.13% of games missed.
Now if they just skip the next guy in the rotation than in reality he is the one that is missing 3% of his starts and if Youkilis lets say only played 150 games he would miss 3.33% but I digress.
It looks pretty even to me.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
They rarely skip the suspended pitcher in the rotation though. The pitcher will appeal his suspension, make his next start, and immediately after he pithces he'll drop his appeal and start serving the suspension. The team might have someone from AAA pitch or have one of their long relievers start on the suspended player's regular day in the rotation if it comes down to it, but chances are that if there will be a day off in those 5 days and the suspended pitcher will make his next scheduled start on the 6th day and he won't miss any of his expected starts.
And Matt, I see your point, but I do think Porcello was clearly trying to hit somebody. He tried and failed to hit Martinez (batting lefthanded) and then when Youkilis came up right after him (hitting righthanded) he plunked him square in the back. It's not like his fastball was just riding high in both cases. At least that's my opinion on the matter.
Lead down to half a game and if either team sweeps it is by no means over (I will be in a lot better mood if the Rangers do, though ). The Rangers are heating up and another gutty performance by Scott Feldman who has 12 wins now, second only to Mr. Beckett. I think Josh is back, too. He's 9 of his last 10. He's hitting .260 on the nose right now and coming from the two-teens a couple of weeks ago, he's been on a tear. And squaring up on the ball too, going the other way. Had two ringing doubles yesterday and stretched a ground ball up the middle into a two bagger today.
First game is the one you guys want to win with Lester on the mound, because we've shown an ability to hit Penny, and I don't think you can accurately predict what you'll get from Tawaza. This is going to be really, really fun and interesting. I'll be at all 3. Look at Holland's start against the Angels last Sunday and two times before that against Seattle. Kinsler is coming back Friday night, although it looks like Cruz will be heading to the DL. Like I said should be fun and even if one of the teams gets swept, I think we will have a Wild Card race coming down to the last week of the season. I'd say good luck, but I want you guys to lose...
Aren't you forgetting to factor in the 20+ ABs Youkilis lost vs zero ABs for the pitcher? I would say Youkilis rarely gets a day off and unless injured, plays all 9 innings +. The pitcher OTOH is gone by the 7th inning or sooner and in the American League contributes no run scoring potential vs Youkilis' 20 + lost ABs. The objective being to "win the game", which is done by scoring runs (unless they're walked in), Youkilis' punishment is far more harsh than Porcello's, who is gonna sit on his butt either way. Detroit couldn't use him for the next 4 days if they wanted to...Youk OTOH is a large part of the offensive power of the Red Sox, his bat is silent for 5 days. Additionally, you make the assumption of 32 starts, which is not a sure thing, whereas Youkilis' attendance is almost a daily fact.
Perhaps to put it another way...what is the daily potential impact to the Red Sox team vs the daily potential impact to the Tigers? Red Sox HUGE, Tigers nada.
Additionally, you use 162 for Youkilis, I suspect he doesn't play perhaps 10-15 games per season, either because Francona gives him a day off here and there, or for other reasons. Therefore, your stats would be skewed further to show Youkilis got screwed just a bit more. If he only played 147 games (missed 15), you wold then have 3.40% missed. vs Porcellos 3.13%...however, all this is moot because you're trying to compare apples to oranges. one guy plays every day, the other guy plays every 5th day and then only 78% of the game.
I say fine them both $5k and call it a day, no game suspension. Again, this would be a different elephant if say two opposing position players started whaling on each other say at home plate, like Varitek and A-Roid. THEN you can fine and suspend.
i would think 1 missed start by a great starting pitcher is a big deal or having to bring up a minor leaguer for 1 start is also a big deal.
The biggest argument of unfariness would just be that the sox could go 0-5 in games missed by Youkilis vs. 0-1 vs games missed by Porcello. In terms of percent time missed to each team it is a fair suspension.
Also you must not of read my whole post as I did the same math you did
<< <i>Now if they just skip the next guy in the rotation than in reality he is the one that is missing 3% of his starts and if Youkilis lets say only played 150 games he would miss 3.33% but I digress. >>
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
As far as this whole Youk incident and the 5 game suspension there is NO question that the Sox get hurt more by his suspension however #1 Lowell has been hot, #2 Youk hurt his hand in the fight, #3 he can rest, #4 if he appealed it it might have got delayed until the Sox are in a possible "All hands on deck" situation.
The fight itself? Youk made a fool out of himself IMO, but again there are alot of things to take in consideration... #1-Baseball players CANNOT fight, #2- It is extremely difficult to charge full steam at someone who is in a ready stance and effectivly crush them on impact, #3 The helmut throw was just in the heat of Youk's tunnel vision.
Anyways its over and done with and we need to get our act together QUICK before its too late.
All I can say is that was an epic kick to the groin. Very demorilizing to take a well earned what should have been a 4-2 or 4-3 W and be one strike away. It was great baseball, electric atmosphere at the Temple, especially 30 rows up The mix of diehard Ranger fans and some Sox bandwagoners that were cheering pretty loudly. Man we were 1 strike away...one freaking strike.....
I hope after the season is over this isn't the watershed moment that Ranger fans look back on and say there's where we lost the season....
Let's see what happens tonight. WonderBoy vs. Brad Penny.
What was up with Varitek and the pitching staff being able to hold runners tonight? I'm not a Red Sox fan (I'm a Rangers fan), but have they had that much trouble all year in that department? We have a couple quick guys, but it looked like a little league game in that every time the runners tried to steal, they were succesful and it wasn't even really close.
Rangers now a 1/2 game back and it's exciting for us down here having meaningful baseball games in August. I didn't come into the Red Sox thread to talk noise or anything, as y'all have a long history of greatness compared to the Rangers, but I had an honest question about their "stealing' defense. Good luck the rest of the way,
Yes...the pitchers suck at holding the runners on, and Varitek and Martinez have pretty low caught stealing percentages. It looks like it will be a dogfight to the end.
Frank Viola takes top prize for being the worst analyst filling in for JR so far! A close second is Dave Roberts. I enjoy Eck, but why isn't Jim Rice in the booth a few times? He does NESN analysis before and after the game, played every year of his career with the Red Sox, new HOFer, surely must know the game. Whazzup?
Please tell me that I didn't hear Orsillo mention yesterday that Viola was going on to Toronto for that series.
<< <i>Frank Viola takes top prize for being the worst analyst filling in for JR so far! A close second is Dave Roberts. I enjoy Eck, but why isn't Jim Rice in the booth a few times? He does NESN analysis before and after the game, played every year of his career with the Red Sox, new HOFer, surely must know the game. Whazzup?
Please tell me that I didn't hear Orsillo mention yesterday that Viola was going on to Toronto for that series. >>
I agree, Eck is by far the best of the fill-ins. I thought Sean Casey did OK as well. Dave Roberts is horrible -- love the guy as a player and a person, but he is a terrible color person.
Is no one going to comment on the incident Saturday night? I thought it was pretty classless to throw at a guy's head, not to mention hit it, because your staff can't hold anyone and your catcher can't throw anyone out.
I lost a lot of respect for Boston right there, especially if Varitek or the bench called for it. Fernando Cabrera is trash. That pitch didn't get away either, I was 30 rows behind the dish Saturday night. That was a 90 mph heater to the noggin.
Part of me wanted retrubution today. But I think at the end of the day we got what we wanted. Not talking noise, because it's far from over, (and I think you'll agree with me), but Boston fans are lucky they aren't 2.5 back....
Here's to some fun times and meaningful games in September. Dallas Cowboys, who?
You have been nothing short of a troll during the Rangers - Red Sox series...recall the "rip their throats out" comment, which of course you meant in gest. It is pretty obvious that your entire life revolves around the success or failure of the Texas Rangers, little else in life must give you pleasure, you are simply eaten up with the Ranger baseball team. What a sad life you must have.
Your commenting that "it was pretty classless to throw at a guy's head, not to mention hit it, because your staff can't hold anyone and your catcher can't throw anyone out." That you actually believe Kinsler was intentionally beaned is beyond ludicrous. Why on earth would ANY pitcher intentionally throw at someone's head? You are quick to jump to conclusions because one of your beloved members of the Rangers was unfortunately hit with a pitch, not to make light of the fact he got hit in the head, which incidentally was reported that the pitch grazed his shoulder first which lessened the impact. It is noted however, that you make zip, zero, nada mention that you are thankful that Kinsler was ok...all you wanted was r-e-t-r-i-b-u-t-i-o-n, and yes, we all noted that you were again at the game, 30 rows beyond the "dish". Take a deep, deep breath, and ask yourself why on earth would the pitcher intentionally throw at his head? Does that make any sense to you? Really? You are making a fool of yourself on this page and honestly, I'm glad we're out of Texas land so we don't have to read anymore of your crappy drivel.
Lucky we aren't 2.5 back? So what, it's only baseball, not a heart transplant. You are beyond obssessed with your Ranger team, you will need some serious therapy if your team makes it to the playoffs and fails...it's a very disappointing feeling, believe me!! I've been a Red Sox fan for over 50 years...I've seen Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle play in Fenway and a ton of wonderful players. I've suffered along with all other members of Red Sox Nation, but our joy came in '04 and '07. You need to take the good with the bad, stop pointing fingers and making accusations that you obviously cannot substantiate, but only want to be hate filled with evil thoughts.
I know you will respond to this, but I am done here and will give you the last word so that you can vent some more and show us what a classy fan you really are. BTW, nobody in Red Sox Nation gives a rat's ass that "you lost a lot of respect for Boston right there"
Perhaps you can take a bit of a lesson from Ian Kinsler, who called Varitek to apologize for his rant at home plate.
You're right probably a little bit excessive fan, ok you're right I am an obsessive fan. Sorry if you thought I was "trolling" as it called. Just trying to get a lively discussion going. Appologies if I got on anyone's nerves or hurt anyone's feelings.
I am young guy, no wife, only responsibility is my job which I do take seriously, so if my life revolves around the Rangers right now, I think its ok. I'm single and don't have to answer to anyone.
You've obviously seen a lot of baseball in your day, a lot of bad Red Sox Baseball and a lot of good Red Sox Baseball. And while you had to suffer without a world series victory for a while. You had successes in 1946, 1967, 1975, 1986, and several other trips since the divisional era started in 1994. The Rangers have had 1 playoff victory there enitre existance and I was 13 when it happened, not one series victory, one playoff win. Since that time we've lost 9 straight playoff games. Forgive me if I get a bit rabid now, its exciting to actually play meaning games in August (and hopefully September), for the first time since 2004 and the first real chance to make the playoffs in a decade. Boston hasn't had a stretch like that since before I was born.
While I don't think getting plunked in the head was intentional, I do think he was hit intentionally and if I was Kinsler I would still be upset because the pitch got him in the head. But he's ok and played well the next day. Glad he apologized to Varitek (can you post a link to that, I didn't read it anywhere). Also glad we didn't retailiate, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Everyone just needed sometime to cool off, myself included. Also when you roll into Fenway, while there may be some other teams fans they are not more vocal than the Bostons. I get tired of going to Rangers games against the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees and seeing all the bandwagon fans roll out. That tends to get me more worked up than anything.
I don't swear, cuss, yell vulgar things at the game, but I am vocal (imagine that). A guy two rows in front of me (from Boston at least originally because of his accent) turned around flipped off the crowd and yelled take that "m. f'ers," Friday night after the V-Mart double. But I guess they're on both sides.
Again didn't mean to offend anyone or "troll," just trying to engage in sports talk. Hope all is well, and good luck the rest of the way, but I do hope the Rangers finish at least one game better than the Red Sox. And yes I'll be there tonight 30 rows behind the dish..
I don't think Cabrerra was going after Kinsler's head, but he was clearly trying to brush him back, as he and many of the Rangers were leaning over the plate the whole series. Kinsler certainly handled it better than Youk, who likely cost the Red Sox at least one, maybe 2 games for idiotically charging the mound.
Bottom line I was hoping some recent "incidents" would have lit a fire under our butt and we would go on a rampage- fighting for a wild card slot is not what I had in mind though. Dare I say this is going to be like the Pats season of last year- close but no cigar?
Matt, I got no problem with you engaging us in this thread but be advised, Al ( MCMLVTopps ) is a permanent member of Red Sox Nation and he also happens to be our "pitbull" in this Thread so understand he takes offense really easy and is always ready for a call to arms!
Ok Ok lets get it together while we still have a FREAKIN' CHANCE
<< <i>I don't think Cabrerra was going after Kinsler's head, but he was clearly trying to brush him back, as he and many of the Rangers were leaning over the plate the whole series. Kinsler certainly handled it better than Youk, who likely cost the Red Sox at least one, maybe 2 games for idiotically charging the mound. >>
Agree 99% I got no problem with Youk charging the mound though, I just wish he did it better. I really dont have an issue with anyone charging the mound, its hot and tempers do flare up.
The only thing about Youk charging the mound is the resulting consequences issued by MLB. I fully understand why he did what he did, but you also have a responsibility to the 24 other players and management to not put yourself in a position of being absent from games. Given our recent track record, I think Youk's bat could possibly have had an impact. We are not in April or May, the sand is quickly running out of the hourglass. I wish he'd taken just a few steps toward the mound then headed off to first base, BUT, again, I do understand in the heat of the moment he just had to let go and "man up" with the situation.
Getting hit two days in a row is pretty tough to take, I suspect a 90mph baseball hitting you anywhere is painful. I still think the Red Sox got royally screwed with the 5 game suspension of Youk and the pitcher in essence lost no time. I say dump the suspension crap and just fine the hell out of people. No way can you compare a pitcher suspension to a regular position player's suspension.
We're in deep, deep water guys, and the schedule ain't lookin' too good either. On top of all this, we gotta listen to Frank (I should be working at Wendy's) Viola as an analyst wannabe. Is Eck or Rice that busy that they can't fill the role till Remdawg gets back?? GEEZ already.
Getting hit two days in a row is pretty tough to take, I suspect a 90mph baseball hitting you anywhere is painful. I still think the Red Sox got royally screwed with the 5 game suspension of Youk and the pitcher in essence lost no time. I say dump the suspension crap and just fine the hell out of people. No way can you compare a pitcher suspension to a regular position player's suspension.
We're in deep, deep water guys, and the schedule ain't lookin' too good either. On top of all this, we gotta listen to Frank (I should be working at Wendy's) Viola as an analyst wannabe. Is Eck or Rice that busy that they can't fill the role till Remdawg gets back?? GEEZ already.
Good things better be happanin soon!! >>
I couldnt agree more, these fines I believe go to charity so IMO its a win win situation. Oh and honestly if you want to get these guys attention then take money from them...
While it is nice to see the Red Sox are worried about us, we should have won last night. That game was worse than Friday night 6 run outburst simply from the fact we had a 5 run lead in the 5th and blew it. We are doing ourselves no favors, especially on nights Boston, TB, and the Angels all win. Gotta have those.
To answer your question perkdog, a couple of weeks Kinsler got brushed back by Detroit, then drilled. Eddie Guardado came in and brushed back their first hitter. Their dugout started yelling and Guardado turned and said, "Don't Talk. Zip It." There were some swear words mixed in to, but they guy that made it only did the part you see. Tonight's another chance for everyone. Tomorrow we could have a new Wild Card or co-Wild cards. Hopefully getting Pudge back will give us a boost.
While it is nice to see the Red Sox are worried about us, we should have won last night
I wouldn't say Red Sox Nation is "worried" about the Rangers, it just so happens that the Red Sox and Rangers are currently neck and neck for the AL Wildcard, no more, no less.
Boy, if you ever experience a Bucky Dent or Aaron Boone moment, you're gonna be suicidal!! AND, if a Bill Buckner (one strike away from a WS win) moment happens to your team, you will definitely be jumping off the highest building in Texas.
Comments
Barndog- I was thinking the same thing about this getting the team charged up like it did in '04. It got me charged up! I'm glad to see there's still some fire in the belly of the team.
I have every right to throw my helmet at him!!!!Let him dodge it>
dirtmonkey he wasn't thrown down like a girl it was momentum and he just turned to get his weight
going the right way.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>Sorry but if I am getting a baseball thrown in the direction of my head at 90+ mph then
I have every right to throw my helmet at him!!!!Let him dodge it>
dirtmonkey he wasn't thrown down like a girl it was momentum and he just turned to get his weight
going the right way. >>
Yes, I saw it... Bytchwhipped like a girl
Rule #1 - When charging the mound make sure that you're not the first guy to hit the ground.
Youk got "Zimmered."
How is this a fair penalty?
Forget Jackson, he was just wanting to fight and had no business getting so cranked up.
<< <i>So, here's the real question...Youk gets 5 games and a fine, Porcello gets 5 games and a fine. Youk is a starting position player, Porcello is in a 5-man rotation. All the Tigers have to do is move Porcello's next start back one day and he in essence serves no real penalty except for the fine. Youk OTOH gets nailed for 5 actual games, which impact Tito's lineup, not to mention losing Youk's defense and offensive play during the 5 games he sits. Porcello OTOH plays with his gameboy for 5 days and is probably LHAO over the "suspension".
How is this a fair penalty?
Forget Jackson, he was just wanting to fight and had no business getting so cranked up. >>
the intent of the suspension is to punish the player. Each loses five games worth of pay. The fact that Youkilis' suspension hurts his team more than Porcello's may influence Youkilis to have his pitcher take care of the issue next time.
Didn't see the game tonight (moving to NH, so will be without media for a few days), but read about it online. Coolest thing was that Remy visited the park and interviewed with Orsillo.
It was awesome to see RemDawg back in the both if only for a visit. He looked pretty good.
<< <i>So, here's the real question...Youk gets 5 games and a fine, Porcello gets 5 games and a fine. Youk is a starting position player, Porcello is in a 5-man rotation. All the Tigers have to do is move Porcello's next start back one day and he in essence serves no real penalty except for the fine. Youk OTOH gets nailed for 5 actual games, which impact Tito's lineup, not to mention losing Youk's defense and offensive play during the 5 games he sits. Porcello OTOH plays with his gameboy for 5 days and is probably LHAO over the "suspension".
How is this a fair penalty?
Forget Jackson, he was just wanting to fight and had no business getting so cranked up. >>
Well by the same measure, Youk charging the mound after the pitch screwed the Tigers worse than Boston for that game. Detroit lost their SP, who was kicking arse, while the Sox only lost a guy who bats once every 9 times... It isn't usually fair that way either, but dems da breaks
Barndog - moving back to New England from Texas? Are you excited?
Somehow there is a more stringent punishment handed out to Youkilis as he is an everyday player...Porcello OTOH would be sitting down for the next 4 days anyway. The impact is greater on the Red Sox team as a whole, thus the added problem to Francona and the other 24 players with position assignments. Therefore, I see no value in suspending either player, but more of a monetary fine which clearly balances the scales. Again, Jackson is a non-issue here, he was just livid and wanting to fight. I think MLB was a bit overreactive with the suspension of games, clearly Youkilis got the short end of the deal. We need to remember that Youkilis got whacked two nights in a row, the first resulted in a glare at the pitcher, the second was just pissed off aggression...and probably a "you can't do that crap to me again" kinda thing.
Therefore, my position is there is no fair value in suspensions for pitchers vs everyday players if both are given "time out" for a period of time. Suspensions don't hurt pitchers, assuming the suspension is for 5 days or less. Now if two everyday players get 5 days, that's fine with me, more equal in impact.
Barndog...
Where in NH are you moving to? I've spent a good deal of time in Nashua and Concord, with a dabbling of Manchester and Laconia. Buy your snowblower early while they may still be on sale!!
And yes, it was great to see the Remdawg at Fenway last night. I thought he was gonna choke up and cry at the ovation he got and when he talked about all the cards and letters...even some from the Bronx!! It'll be good to have him back in the booth, although I do like Eck...NOT Dave Roberts.
But if there was no intent in Porcello's pitch, which I believe there wasn't and he was clearly backing away as Youkilis charged, should Porcello even have been ejected - much less suspended?
Not faulting Youkilis for charging, he's been hit a lot and sometimes you have to stand up and say your not going to take it anymore regardless of intent. There were no punches thrown, so I really don't think Porcello should have been ejected or suspended.
If the hitter charges, regardless of the pitcher's intent, which no one will really ever know, he's going to get ejected from the game, and 99 times out of 100 suspended. A similiar situation happened to the Rangers in Seattle in 2007 or 2008. A couple of Rangers had gotten plunked and Kason Gabbard (former Red Sox great) threw a pitch that was head level to Richie Sexson, but it was over the plate, a foot from Sexson's head. If the pitch was belt level it would have been a strike. Sexson charged, threw his helmet at Gabbard when he was 2 feet from the pitcher. Gabbard went down, Sexson tackled him and got a couple of punches in, before the benches broke it up. Not only was Gabbard not suspended, but he wasn't fined or ejected from the game. Just my 2 cents on the matter.
What I'm selling
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An every day player IE someone who might play all 162 games a season (big if I know) would be missing this percentage of his normal games played
5/162= 3.08% of games missed
A pitcher is normally in a 5 man rotation so he should get about 32 starts a year. A 5 game suspension means he possibly misses one start.
1/32= 3.13% of games missed.
Now if they just skip the next guy in the rotation than in reality he is the one that is missing 3% of his starts and if Youkilis lets say only played 150 games he would miss 3.33% but I digress.
It looks pretty even to me.
And Matt, I see your point, but I do think Porcello was clearly trying to hit somebody. He tried and failed to hit Martinez (batting lefthanded) and then when Youkilis came up right after him (hitting righthanded) he plunked him square in the back. It's not like his fastball was just riding high in both cases. At least that's my opinion on the matter.
Lead down to half a game and if either team sweeps it is by no means over (I will be in a lot better mood if the Rangers do, though
First game is the one you guys want to win with Lester on the mound, because we've shown an ability to hit Penny, and I don't think you can accurately predict what you'll get from Tawaza. This is going to be really, really fun and interesting. I'll be at all 3. Look at Holland's start against the Angels last Sunday and two times before that against Seattle. Kinsler is coming back Friday night, although it looks like Cruz will be heading to the DL. Like I said should be fun and even if one of the teams gets swept, I think we will have a Wild Card race coming down to the last week of the season. I'd say good luck, but I want you guys to lose...
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Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
Aren't you forgetting to factor in the 20+ ABs Youkilis lost vs zero ABs for the pitcher? I would say Youkilis rarely gets a day off and unless injured, plays all 9 innings +. The pitcher OTOH is gone by the 7th inning or sooner and in the American League contributes no run scoring potential vs Youkilis' 20 + lost ABs. The objective being to "win the game", which is done by scoring runs (unless they're walked in), Youkilis' punishment is far more harsh than Porcello's, who is gonna sit on his butt either way. Detroit couldn't use him for the next 4 days if they wanted to...Youk OTOH is a large part of the offensive power of the Red Sox, his bat is silent for 5 days. Additionally, you make the assumption of 32 starts, which is not a sure thing, whereas Youkilis' attendance is almost a daily fact.
Perhaps to put it another way...what is the daily potential impact to the Red Sox team vs the daily potential impact to the Tigers? Red Sox HUGE, Tigers nada.
Additionally, you use 162 for Youkilis, I suspect he doesn't play perhaps 10-15 games per season, either because Francona gives him a day off here and there, or for other reasons. Therefore, your stats would be skewed further to show Youkilis got screwed just a bit more. If he only played 147 games (missed 15), you wold then have 3.40% missed. vs Porcellos 3.13%...however, all this is moot because you're trying to compare apples to oranges. one guy plays every day, the other guy plays every 5th day and then only 78% of the game.
I say fine them both $5k and call it a day, no game suspension. Again, this would be a different elephant if say two opposing position players started whaling on each other say at home plate, like Varitek and A-Roid. THEN you can fine and suspend.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
I'm kinda done with this.
The biggest argument of unfariness would just be that the sox could go 0-5 in games missed by Youkilis vs. 0-1 vs games missed by Porcello. In terms of percent time missed to each team it is a fair suspension.
Also you must not of read my whole post as I did the same math you did
<< <i>Now if they just skip the next guy in the rotation than in reality he is the one that is missing 3% of his starts and if Youkilis lets say only played 150 games he would miss 3.33% but I digress. >>
The fight itself? Youk made a fool out of himself IMO, but again there are alot of things to take in consideration... #1-Baseball players CANNOT fight, #2- It is extremely difficult to charge full steam at someone who is in a ready stance and effectivly crush them on impact, #3 The helmut throw was just in the heat of Youk's tunnel vision.
Anyways its over and done with and we need to get our act together QUICK before its too late.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>Hell yeah VMart! >>
Hands down the best hitter in the AL.
Big time hit
Did Bucky really pinch run? And then get tagged out at home? How bad was that?
Needed this one and many more.
Will last night signal Papi and Drew getting hot?
We need sustained offense.
------------
BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
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I hope after the season is over this isn't the watershed moment that Ranger fans look back on and say there's where we lost the season....
Let's see what happens tonight. WonderBoy vs. Brad Penny.
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Rangers now a 1/2 game back and it's exciting for us down here having meaningful baseball games in August. I didn't come into the Red Sox thread to talk noise or anything, as y'all have a long history of greatness compared to the Rangers, but I had an honest question about their "stealing' defense. Good luck the rest of the way,
Mike
Please tell me that I didn't hear Orsillo mention yesterday that Viola was going on to Toronto for that series.
<< <i>Frank Viola takes top prize for being the worst analyst filling in for JR so far! A close second is Dave Roberts. I enjoy Eck, but why isn't Jim Rice in the booth a few times? He does NESN analysis before and after the game, played every year of his career with the Red Sox, new HOFer, surely must know the game. Whazzup?
Please tell me that I didn't hear Orsillo mention yesterday that Viola was going on to Toronto for that series. >>
I agree, Eck is by far the best of the fill-ins. I thought Sean Casey did OK as well. Dave Roberts is horrible -- love the guy as a player and a person, but he is a terrible color person.
I lost a lot of respect for Boston right there, especially if Varitek or the bench called for it. Fernando Cabrera is trash. That pitch didn't get away either, I was 30 rows behind the dish Saturday night. That was a 90 mph heater to the noggin.
Part of me wanted retrubution today. But I think at the end of the day we got what we wanted. Not talking noise, because it's far from over, (and I think you'll agree with me), but Boston fans are lucky they aren't 2.5 back....
Here's to some fun times and meaningful games in September. Dallas Cowboys, who?
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
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You have been nothing short of a troll during the Rangers - Red Sox series...recall the "rip their throats out" comment, which of course you meant in gest. It is pretty obvious that your entire life revolves around the success or failure of the Texas Rangers, little else in life must give you pleasure, you are simply eaten up with the Ranger baseball team. What a sad life you must have.
Your commenting that "it was pretty classless to throw at a guy's head, not to mention hit it, because your staff can't hold anyone and your catcher can't throw anyone out." That you actually believe Kinsler was intentionally beaned is beyond ludicrous. Why on earth would ANY pitcher intentionally throw at someone's head? You are quick to jump to conclusions because one of your beloved members of the Rangers was unfortunately hit with a pitch, not to make light of the fact he got hit in the head, which incidentally was reported that the pitch grazed his shoulder first which lessened the impact. It is noted however, that you make zip, zero, nada mention that you are thankful that Kinsler was ok...all you wanted was r-e-t-r-i-b-u-t-i-o-n, and yes, we all noted that you were again at the game, 30 rows beyond the "dish". Take a deep, deep breath, and ask yourself why on earth would the pitcher intentionally throw at his head? Does that make any sense to you? Really? You are making a fool of yourself on this page and honestly, I'm glad we're out of Texas land so we don't have to read anymore of your crappy drivel.
Lucky we aren't 2.5 back? So what, it's only baseball, not a heart transplant. You are beyond obssessed with your Ranger team, you will need some serious therapy if your team makes it to the playoffs and fails...it's a very disappointing feeling, believe me!! I've been a Red Sox fan for over 50 years...I've seen Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle play in Fenway and a ton of wonderful players. I've suffered along with all other members of Red Sox Nation, but our joy came in '04 and '07. You need to take the good with the bad, stop pointing fingers and making accusations that you obviously cannot substantiate, but only want to be hate filled with evil thoughts.
I know you will respond to this, but I am done here and will give you the last word so that you can vent some more and show us what a classy fan you really are. BTW, nobody in Red Sox Nation gives a rat's ass that "you lost a lot of respect for Boston right there"
Perhaps you can take a bit of a lesson from Ian Kinsler, who called Varitek to apologize for his rant at home plate.
Grow up, got it?
Another classic Al!!
You're right probably a little bit excessive fan, ok you're right I am an obsessive fan. Sorry if you thought I was "trolling" as it called. Just trying to get a lively discussion going. Appologies if I got on anyone's nerves or hurt anyone's feelings.
I am young guy, no wife, only responsibility is my job which I do take seriously, so if my life revolves around the Rangers right now, I think its ok. I'm single and don't have to answer to anyone.
You've obviously seen a lot of baseball in your day, a lot of bad Red Sox Baseball and a lot of good Red Sox Baseball. And while you had to suffer without a world series victory for a while. You had successes in 1946, 1967, 1975, 1986, and several other trips since the divisional era started in 1994. The Rangers have had 1 playoff victory there enitre existance and I was 13 when it happened, not one series victory, one playoff win. Since that time we've lost 9 straight playoff games. Forgive me if I get a bit rabid now, its exciting to actually play meaning games in August (and hopefully September), for the first time since 2004 and the first real chance to make the playoffs in a decade. Boston hasn't had a stretch like that since before I was born.
While I don't think getting plunked in the head was intentional, I do think he was hit intentionally and if I was Kinsler I would still be upset because the pitch got him in the head. But he's ok and played well the next day. Glad he apologized to Varitek (can you post a link to that, I didn't read it anywhere). Also glad we didn't retailiate, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Everyone just needed sometime to cool off, myself included. Also when you roll into Fenway, while there may be some other teams fans they are not more vocal than the Bostons. I get tired of going to Rangers games against the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees and seeing all the bandwagon fans roll out. That tends to get me more worked up than anything.
I don't swear, cuss, yell vulgar things at the game, but I am vocal (imagine that). A guy two rows in front of me (from Boston at least originally because of his accent) turned around flipped off the crowd and yelled take that "m. f'ers," Friday night after the V-Mart double. But I guess they're on both sides.
Again didn't mean to offend anyone or "troll," just trying to engage in sports talk. Hope all is well, and good luck the rest of the way, but I do hope the Rangers finish at least one game better than the Red Sox. And yes I'll be there tonight 30 rows behind the dish..
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Matt, I got no problem with you engaging us in this thread but be advised, Al ( MCMLVTopps ) is a permanent member of Red Sox Nation and he also happens to be our "pitbull" in this Thread so understand he takes offense really easy and is always ready for a call to arms!
Ok Ok lets get it together while we still have a FREAKIN' CHANCE
<< <i>I don't think Cabrerra was going after Kinsler's head, but he was clearly trying to brush him back, as he and many of the Rangers were leaning over the plate the whole series. Kinsler certainly handled it better than Youk, who likely cost the Red Sox at least one, maybe 2 games for idiotically charging the mound. >>
Agree 99% I got no problem with Youk charging the mound though, I just wish he did it better. I really dont have an issue with anyone charging the mound, its hot and tempers do flare up.
Getting hit two days in a row is pretty tough to take, I suspect a 90mph baseball hitting you anywhere is painful. I still think the Red Sox got royally screwed with the 5 game suspension of Youk and the pitcher in essence lost no time. I say dump the suspension crap and just fine the hell out of people. No way can you compare a pitcher suspension to a regular position player's suspension.
We're in deep, deep water guys, and the schedule ain't lookin' too good either. On top of all this, we gotta listen to Frank (I should be working at Wendy's) Viola as an analyst wannabe. Is Eck or Rice that busy that they can't fill the role till Remdawg gets back?? GEEZ already.
Good things better be happanin soon!!
<< <i>.
Getting hit two days in a row is pretty tough to take, I suspect a 90mph baseball hitting you anywhere is painful. I still think the Red Sox got royally screwed with the 5 game suspension of Youk and the pitcher in essence lost no time. I say dump the suspension crap and just fine the hell out of people. No way can you compare a pitcher suspension to a regular position player's suspension.
We're in deep, deep water guys, and the schedule ain't lookin' too good either. On top of all this, we gotta listen to Frank (I should be working at Wendy's) Viola as an analyst wannabe. Is Eck or Rice that busy that they can't fill the role till Remdawg gets back?? GEEZ already.
Good things better be happanin soon!! >>
I couldnt agree more, these fines I believe go to charity so IMO its a win win situation. Oh and honestly if you want to get these guys attention then take money from them...
<< <i>matthewbschultz83... Please tell me what that Ranger player is saying in your sig line!
I think he is saying not your job and then the zip it motion?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Papelbon very, very rocky!
Bucky vs Halladay tonight AND Viola? I'll bet Orsillo is dying inside.
Break out the Advil boys, it's gonna be a nail-biter or complete disaster!!
The bright side...we have Youk back.
To answer your question perkdog, a couple of weeks Kinsler got brushed back by Detroit, then drilled. Eddie Guardado came in and brushed back their first hitter. Their dugout started yelling and Guardado turned and said, "Don't Talk. Zip It." There were some swear words mixed in to, but they guy that made it only did the part you see. Tonight's another chance for everyone. Tomorrow we could have a new Wild Card or co-Wild cards. Hopefully getting Pudge back will give us a boost.
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Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
While it is nice to see the Red Sox are worried about us, we should have won last night
I wouldn't say Red Sox Nation is "worried" about the Rangers, it just so happens that the Red Sox and Rangers are currently neck and neck for the AL Wildcard, no more, no less.
Boy, if you ever experience a Bucky Dent or Aaron Boone moment, you're gonna be suicidal!! AND, if a Bill Buckner (one strike away from a WS win) moment happens to your team, you will definitely be jumping off the highest building in Texas.
Tis only baseball, not life and death.