Would PCGS still grade the coins with the scar a 69? If they would then I wouldn't return, if they wouldn't then I might. 4 quarters is two halfs, you can get two halfs for those quarters perhaps and hope for the best.
Also I am not sure how many of you have seen the TV special called "Secrets of the US Mint". but towards the end of the program they showed the person packaging the coins and deciding which coins to reject and which to send out. There was no magnification used and she used compressed air to blow dust off the coin and stick it inside of its capsule.
Why did the 1/10th Oz go to "No longer available" right after they were on backorder and the 1/4 are still on backorder. I would have thought by now they would have received enough extra orders to change them to no longer available. At some point " as I have seen them do before" I would think they would post the fact that they were sold out but would continue to take orders in case of cancellations or returns. It seems like poor customer service to say they are not sold out just to take more orders. I talked to the mint yesterday and they are saying they are not sold out.
<< <i>Goldbully, I received two 1/4 ozer Burnished Uncs with the same strike-through. Aside from the mark on the arm, my coins have no other noticeable marks or flaws. My opinion - I would still venture an MS-69 grade on these in PCGS-land, but the coins I have are clean otherwise and the finish is nicer than last year.
I can't make out the marks with the naked eye (getting old), but I can easily see them with 5X, and with 10X. I characterize them as "small contact marks" even though they are indeed strikethroughs. The arm is a focal point, but the marks aren't severe enough to knock them down below MS-69, unless there are some other flaws on the coins, IMO.
Maybe we've got the rare "Liberty on a Knife Rampage" Variety. >>
I got the start of my 1/10 ouncers today and they looked great, little chew on the UNC rims like last year. These are keepers for me, thanks mail burro.
Does anyone have a unc 1/4 ounce without that mark on the arm? I think it has to be as struck as the odds are too high that so many would have the same exact same mark in the same exact place.
I might buy a 4 coin UNC set now. I can't remember in 2006 if the one and 1/2 ounces went dark before the 4 coin sets or not. By next weekend though we might know how many sets they made or if this breaks below the 2006 coins. If it goes past two more weekends there may be more coins than we thought.
very unlikely ... I have never seen a "modern" PCGS 69 with a major gouge as such shown on the elbow. If you have an example, I sure would like to see it.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Does anyone have a unc 1/4 ounce without that mark on the arm? I think it has to be as struck as the odds are too high that so many would have the same exact same mark in the same exact place.
Both of my coins with the mark came from the individual coin option. All 3 of my 4-coin sets had 1/4 ozers with no marks on the arm.
very unlikely ... I have never seen a "modern" PCGS 69 with a major gouge as such shown on the elbow. If you have an example, I sure would like to see it.
OPA, it's not a major gouge, and it's on a 1/4 oz. piece, so it looks larger than it is, especially in those photos that are about 100X. It's really not noticeable until you go to 5X. If anyone submits one of these that has no other imperfections, I'd be interested in what PCGS does think. I still would say MS-69, unless there are other problems.
It's definitely something like a piece of metal imbedded in the die, although I don't know why Mint-induced damage like this would be given any better treatment in the grading room. Damage is damage, whether the Mint did it or not. It obviously did happen during striking, although it's not a die defect - it's trash (probably a rim chip or clipping) stuck in a crevice in the most recessed part of the die.
Looking at a number of Plats through the years, a significant number of them seem to have what I would call "die ejection damage" to the I.D. (inner diameter) of the rim. Part of the I.D. of the rim is either sheared away or scraped away, and sometimes there appears to be what I would call "chatter" on the rim as well.
Does anyone know what's going on with that? It doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of the strike or the quality of the surfaces, so sometimes I will see an otherwise nice coin where this is actually a distraction. Comments welcome. Does anyone else see this, and do you know if the grading companies account for it?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Does anyone have a unc 1/4 ounce without that mark on the arm? I think it has to be as struck as the odds are too high that so many would have the same exact same mark in the same exact place.
Both of my coins with the mark came from the individual coin option. All 3 of my 4-coin sets had 1/4 ozers with no marks on the arm.
very unlikely ... I have never seen a "modern" PCGS 69 with a major gouge as such shown on the elbow. If you have an example, I sure would like to see it.
OPA, it's not a major gouge, and it's on a 1/4 oz. piece, so it looks larger than it is, especially in those photos that are about 100X. It's really not noticeable until you go to 5X. If anyone submits one of these that has no other imperfections, I'd be interested in what PCGS does think. I still would say MS-69, unless there are other problems.
It's definitely something like a piece of metal imbedded in the die, although I don't know why Mint-induced damage like this would be given any better treatment in the grading room. Damage is damage, whether the Mint did it or not. It obviously did happen during striking, although it's not a die defect - it's trash (probably a rim chip or clipping) stuck in a crevice in the most recessed part of the die. >>
I keep forgetting it's a 1/4 oz & not a 1 ozer ... I would be curious to see if it does get a 69.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Looking at a number of Plats through the years, a significant number of them seem to have what I would call "die ejection damage" to the I.D. (inner diameter) of the rim. Part of the I.D. of the rim is either sheared away or scraped away, and sometimes there appears to be what I would call "chatter" on the rim as well.
Does anyone know what's going on with that? It doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of the strike or the quality of the surfaces, so sometimes I will see an otherwise nice coin where this is actually a distraction. Comments welcome. Does anyone else see this, and do you know if the grading companies account for it? >>
I've noticed that as well. Also, when I see rim chatter, it tends to be more prevalent on the reverse above the word STATES. I've also noticed that platinum has a greater tendency to be struck off-center, so that the rim is not the same size all around. And the rim chatter tends to occur where the rim is smallest.
At least those are my observations from a very small sample size.
The UNC coin are a lottery IMO, you may win or lose. They had a shot in the future since they are a very short series at this point but if you notice everyone is talking about fliping these and making money, where's the collectors? Well those that collect have them right now and won't need to buy your coins IMO. If you want to be in the PM game gold and silver is a better bet at this time in the ecomony IMO.
those who are in the 08-w uncs are there for rarity not for the PM game.
the play on these unc's has nothing to do with playing PM's - as one forum member put it earlier in the topic, if you are worried about the intrinsic value of these coins dropping and not the numismatic rarity, it's best that you sell and exit.
there will always be enough buyers of a sub 2000 mintage US coin, once the numbers are public, there will be a rush in to buy by those oblivious to the fact that these coins are even back on sale.
we are not talking tens of thousands of coins here, we are talking sub 2000. we are taking about fractional coins that start at 135 bucks, the next one up the chain, 320 bucks.
are you saying that at the sub $1000 secondary market sales price there aren't enough buyers to allow a 2-3x profit on a sub 2000 qtr and ~3000 tenth?
I say wake up and smell the coffee, you must be dreaming.
those who are in the 08-w uncs are there for rarity not for the PM game.
the play on these unc's has nothing to do with playing PM's - as one forum member put it earlier in the topic, if you are worried about the intrinsic value of these coins dropping and not the numismatic rarity, it's best that you sell and exit.
there will always be enough buyers of a sub 2000 mintage US coin, once the numbers are public, there will be a rush in to buy by those oblivious to the fact that these coins are even back on sale.
we are not talking tens of thousands of coins here, we are talking sub 2000. we are taking about fractional coins that start at 135 bucks, the next one up the chain, 320 bucks.
are you saying that at the sub $1000 secondary market sales price there aren't enough buyers to allow a 2-3x profit on a sub 2000 qtr and ~3000 tenth?
I say wake up and smell the coffee, you must be dreaming. >>
Dreaming? Or just been around the block? The proofs have the collect base and it's more supply and demand and these don't have the collector base, at least not yet. I'd like to see less flipper and more collectors and until that happens these are hot potatoes IMO.
I'm saying if you want rarity you just need to look at proof seated and barber material. These have mintages of 700 or less and 100+ years old. The leason is you have to have a collector base or they sit right around PM prices or sell for stupid cheap compared to their rarity. Just because you have a few thousand coins made if no one wants to collect them they aren't going anywhere for a long time. The old hags will be right in the same boat IMO. These are a lot of money just to buy and see what happens, esp. if your not a collector. I've got old RR watches a lot rarer than these coins and there's actually a collectors market for them but they don't sell for a grand or two.
This is my opinion only but I've been in the plats since 1999 and have seen the market more than those coming in at the 2006 blip. I wouldn't bet these will repeat, this is only a warning for flippers. Have you noticed all the pub and only the 1/10 ounce is gone and the 1/4 is on backorder? 2006 these flew off the self, spiked, and then came back to earth like many modern coins. Too many people are getting burned in the modern market to come back for seconds IMO. The spike was caused by speculators/inverstors not collectors so it didn't hold.
I've circled the block many times too. Collecting/Investing since the 1970's. The market is changing. It has been for the last 10 years with the start of the Statehood Qtr Program. I say for the better. In the mid-90's, before the Qtr program began, coin shows had dwindling attendance by 50+ year old collectors - within years of retirement - always looking to sell their coins in the near future. The outlook was getting bleak, unless younger collectors got interested, starting with Qtrs, Silver Eagles, Moderns of all types, then onto classics. WOW. A market reborn.
Like it or not, the Modern Market is here to stay. It's not a passing fad.
As with all markets, there has to be enough material to promote the hobby. The amount of Moderns produced with some real low mintage rarities is enough juice to keep it going. Promotions are key - TV, Print, etc. , otherwise it is afforded the same "death" as classics that are not "keys" to a series that have ultra low mintages.
You mention REAL rarities like Proof Seated and Barber Material. Yes it is rare. The problem is demand. There are 3 collectors or less of that stuff at every show. I think you know what I mean.
Back to the 08-w unc PLATS. Yes. There will be the flippers in on this material.
Will there be a spike in prices- if the mintages come in where many that are very familiar with these moderns think they will - absolutely.
Do many members buy more of these than they intend to keep for themselves? Absolutely. And they probably fund their other collecting interests with the proceeds of the secondary market sales.
The 1/4 is toast as well. It is gone. Try an order one - tell me if you get it. The "Product Not Available" will show there very soon. Followed by the half or 4 cn sets.
It took the 06-w unc's about 2 weeks AFTER the tenth sold out to see the qtr sellout, then a week to sell out the remaining options. It has only been 5 days since the tenth sold out.
Once the promotions start (i.e. print and TV), there is never enough to go around for sub 06w unc plat mintage level coins.
7/8 I like your passion and like your post but I feel the other side should be brought up since many of these posters haven't been around here since 2006 and missed the first time but heard about it. I too have been collecting since the middle 60's. As you've said 3 collectors for the classic proofs, I'd say the same for this series. A smart dealer in watches told me a few decades ago about collectable in general though his long life time, they were:
1. A $100 item is easier to flip than a $1000 dollars item 2. A solid collector base must exist. 3. Although something is rare in order for it to take off their must be enough of a supply for dealer to promote or they are on there own and a collectors nitch.
You may very well be right but moderns here to stay? I collect moderns and state quarters and like I said they spike and come back down in general. Even the 1999 silver proof set is selling for a lot less then it's peak and when the program ends we'll see if it holds, with some of the stupid money for these high mintages I say it's wishful thinking. Anyway not trying to attack you just bringing another view to this thead from someone that's been in the trenches too.
Edit:
BTW: I think the quarter are on backorder waiting for returns. They seem to over sell knowing the games investors are playing, no one needs 10 or 100 of any coin they collect so your either a 70 hunter or a major dealer if your buying that many.
<< <i>The UNC coin are a lottery IMO, you may win or lose. They had a shot in the future since they are a very short series at this point but if you notice everyone is talking about fliping these and making money, where's the collectors? Well those that collect have them right now and won't need to buy your coins IMO. If you want to be in the PM game gold and silver is a better bet at this time in the ecomony IMO. >>
ttown, you miss the point of flipping. You flip to make money, not to collect. Flippers don't care about collectors. Most of the flips go to subsequent flippers looking to cash in on a hot commodity (ie "Greed). The name of the game is "The Flip". The last one in the flipping game is the guy who didn't do his homework. Be it a collector or flipper. Pity not the fool.
We all remember the new "flipper" named Seven aka "Last Word Larry". Came on this board and started insulting lopng time members because he didn't agree with their assessment of the market. He didn't do his homework, he lost out an a 2x flip on his proof set and there are many of us who feel no pity for him.
Anyone spending this kind of money on their collecting interests had better do their homework. If they don't, then either shame on them or they didn't work hard enough for their money because they didn't place enough value on it to do a little research..
Even if you are correct, I still fail to see your motivation to pump this item. If you bought a crap load of them, why do you want them to sell out so bad? Would it not make more sense for the year to end and go under radar with coins that not only was a low mintage but they did not sell out? I would not want to be the one pushing for people to invest their hard earned money in either direction, if this goes well you will be the hero; but if it goes south then what?
MY opinion of the backorder status is to allow the USM to take orders in excess of available stock in case of any returns.
If you are looking for some comparisons, the 06-w quarter took 2 WEEKS to go backorder and then unavailable AFTER the tenth oz coin. The 08-w quarter took 1 DAY to go backorder after the 08-w tenth sold out.
That said, very high percentages of the customers "backordered" on 06-w coins were disappointed to never get the coins, and the orders were subsequently cancelled.
As Coinhog stated, retail sales are already $300 for the tenth and $500 for the quarter. I dont think there will be many returns.
Actually IIRC the 1/10 ounce went black on a Friday. I called my brother and purchased them on Saturday (1/4, 1/2, and 1 ounce). I got the ouce and quarter but not the half, they were all black except the 4 pc set by the next week.
No pumping going on here. You have the wrong impression. Since you are new to the forum, please visit more threads and read more posts. We all have a passion for collecting these small pieces of history.
What I write is MY OPINION - it is not ADVICE. All of us do the same, whether it is positive or negative, it is still OPINION until the facts are known.
Many board members have stated factual SALES numbers obtained from official sources, NN publishes this every week in their paper.
I bought these coins, so have many others.
When you look at anything you purchase -potentially with the hope of selling it for more than you paid, one question that comes to mind is "What is the downside?" I'm sure we can come up with tens of reasons - pro's and con's. One mitigating factor of risk on the downside to any USM purchase is the 30 day return policy if you are not satisified with your purchase.
I dont have a crystal ball to peer into, I dont know where this will all end up. It's entirely up to you what you choose to do.
Silly questions here, for the sets; when you send them in for grading do you send the coins as a set or simply send the the normal way you send other coins and they are graded individually?
Most people in 2006 got them graded as "first stike" which at the time was all the rage. They also fished for 70's that really brought in the $$$$$. No first stike anymore on the 2008's so it's a 70's game at this point. I really perfer them in the OGP. It's been fun guys but I thought I'd bring up the other side. This is one game you have to pay to play and with all investments right now they are going down the tubes. People just don't feel as rich right now with their losses and reduced credit. I think we maybe turning the page where people will buy what they need not what they want. JMO
It really could go either way. I collect so if the price goes down dirt cheap all the better for me. If rumors are correct the 1/10 ounces are not being produced in 2009 so I'll have all 27 1/10 ouncers and most of the 1/4 ounce series. I'd love them to drop to complete the 1/4 and start working on the 1/2 and 1 ounce series. In a bad ecomony Platium is going to fall much more than gold since most of it is used in industry. I could see it becoming popular in jewlery but it will never exceed 5% of prodcution IMO.
Silly questions here, for the sets; when you send them in for grading do you send the coins as a set or simply send the the normal way you send other coins and they are graded individually? The instructions are printed on the PCGS submittal form, which can be downloaded. You can send in a single coin in a 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" flip, or you can send the set in and let them bust the coins out - either way.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Yes I took NN at the time too. While they have the best guess the total mintage aren't know for years for some reason the mint can't give stats in a timly manner.
Now I remember I missed the 1/10 ounce 2006 and had to buy it graded MS69 from "Manofcoins" for $300 and ordered the others duning the weekend, my bad, it's been awhile
retail sales are already $300 for the tenth and $500 for the quarter.
If the quarter ounce burnished is selling for $500, I would rather buy a half ounce from the Mint for $120 more. Twice as much precious metal, easier to see and appreciate the design, and potentially lower mintage.
Comments
Also I am not sure how many of you have seen the TV special called "Secrets of the US Mint". but towards the end of the program they showed the person packaging the coins and deciding which coins to reject and which to send out. There was no magnification used and she used compressed air to blow dust off the coin and stick it inside of its capsule.
PS My mistake was buying my 1/10s in orders of two, that is just under the amount to get expedited shipment
<< <i>Goldbully, I received two 1/4 ozer Burnished Uncs with the same strike-through. Aside from the mark on the arm, my coins have no other noticeable marks or flaws. My opinion - I would still venture an MS-69 grade on these in PCGS-land, but the coins I have are clean otherwise and the finish is nicer than last year.
I can't make out the marks with the naked eye (getting old), but I can easily see them with 5X, and with 10X. I characterize them as "small contact marks" even though they are indeed strikethroughs. The arm is a focal point, but the marks aren't severe enough to knock them down below MS-69, unless there are some other flaws on the coins, IMO.
Maybe we've got the rare "Liberty on a Knife Rampage" Variety.
And Akbeez and coasterfan too??? Anyone else???
Someone in the Mint's QC was
Check out 4 of 4 elbow gouges!!! What are those odds????
<< <i>those will go 69, i've had worse in 69 holders >>
NGC perhaps, but not PCGS. In order to get that 69 rating your coin will have to be: "Virtually as struck with minuscule imperfections"
I think it has to be as struck as the odds are too high that so many would have the same exact same mark in the same exact place.
All 4 of mine have that same exact mark.
<< <i>Does anyone have a unc 1/4 ounce without that mark on the arm? >>
Yes, 1 of my 6 1/4ozers is MS69 for sure, maybe MS70, and NO elbow gouge....a keeper for sure!!!!!
Good luck to all...and you too Placid!!
San Diego, CA
San Diego, CA
it'll go 69 with PCGS too.
<< <i>Most likely they would only half one set of dies for each denomination. >>
I have read that they get about 500 coins from a die set for platinum coins due to the metal being very hard.
So I doubt there was only one die set used per denomination unless the totals struck are under 1,000.
<< <i>OPA -
it'll go 69 with PCGS too. >>
very unlikely ... I have never seen a "modern" PCGS 69 with a major gouge as such shown on the elbow. If you have an example, I sure would like to see it.
I think it has to be as struck as the odds are too high that so many would have the same exact same mark in the same exact place.
Both of my coins with the mark came from the individual coin option. All 3 of my 4-coin sets had 1/4 ozers with no marks on the arm.
very unlikely ... I have never seen a "modern" PCGS 69 with a major gouge as such shown on the elbow. If you have an example, I sure would like to see it.
OPA, it's not a major gouge, and it's on a 1/4 oz. piece, so it looks larger than it is, especially in those photos that are about 100X. It's really not noticeable until you go to 5X. If anyone submits one of these that has no other imperfections, I'd be interested in what PCGS does think. I still would say MS-69, unless there are other problems.
It's definitely something like a piece of metal imbedded in the die, although I don't know why Mint-induced damage like this would be given any better treatment in the grading room. Damage is damage, whether the Mint did it or not. It obviously did happen during striking, although it's not a die defect - it's trash (probably a rim chip or clipping) stuck in a crevice in the most recessed part of the die.
Looking at a number of Plats through the years, a significant number of them seem to have what I would call "die ejection damage" to the I.D. (inner diameter) of the rim. Part of the I.D. of the rim is either sheared away or scraped away, and sometimes there appears to be what I would call "chatter" on the rim as well.
Does anyone know what's going on with that? It doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of the strike or the quality of the surfaces, so sometimes I will see an otherwise nice coin where this is actually a distraction. Comments welcome. Does anyone else see this, and do you know if the grading companies account for it?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Does anyone have a unc 1/4 ounce without that mark on the arm?
I think it has to be as struck as the odds are too high that so many would have the same exact same mark in the same exact place.
Both of my coins with the mark came from the individual coin option. All 3 of my 4-coin sets had 1/4 ozers with no marks on the arm.
very unlikely ... I have never seen a "modern" PCGS 69 with a major gouge as such shown on the elbow. If you have an example, I sure would like to see it.
OPA, it's not a major gouge, and it's on a 1/4 oz. piece, so it looks larger than it is, especially in those photos that are about 100X. It's really not noticeable until you go to 5X. If anyone submits one of these that has no other imperfections, I'd be interested in what PCGS does think. I still would say MS-69, unless there are other problems.
It's definitely something like a piece of metal imbedded in the die, although I don't know why Mint-induced damage like this would be given any better treatment in the grading room. Damage is damage, whether the Mint did it or not. It obviously did happen during striking, although it's not a die defect - it's trash (probably a rim chip or clipping) stuck in a crevice in the most recessed part of the die. >>
I keep forgetting it's a 1/4 oz & not a 1 ozer ... I would be curious to see if it does get a 69.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Looking at a number of Plats through the years, a significant number of them seem to have what I would call "die ejection damage" to the I.D. (inner diameter) of the rim. Part of the I.D. of the rim is either sheared away or scraped away, and sometimes there appears to be what I would call "chatter" on the rim as well.
Does anyone know what's going on with that? It doesn't necessarily correlate to the quality of the strike or the quality of the surfaces, so sometimes I will see an otherwise nice coin where this is actually a distraction. Comments welcome. Does anyone else see this, and do you know if the grading companies account for it? >>
I've noticed that as well. Also, when I see rim chatter, it tends to be more prevalent on the reverse above the word STATES. I've also noticed that platinum has a greater tendency to be struck off-center, so that the rim is not the same size all around. And the rim chatter tends to occur where the rim is smallest.
At least those are my observations from a very small sample size.
<< <i>The mark is approximately 0.5mm in length, and the width is approximately (1/4th of 0.5mm) or 0.125mm wide.
That's equal to 1/50th(.020) of an inch by 5/1000th(.005) of an inch if I did my math right.
1/32" = .031
1/64" = .016
A human hair is .003 or 3/1000th....did you use calipers or a yard stick??
How did you get your dimensions?????
Got some with that size gouge in the Statue's crown,
come'on - it's a very small mark on the reverse, remember were talkin a 1/4 oz'er here......
Down, down , down.
1999 and 2000, here we come.
those who are in the 08-w uncs are there for rarity not for the PM game.
the play on these unc's has nothing to do with playing PM's - as one forum member put it earlier in the topic, if you are worried about the intrinsic value of these coins dropping and not the numismatic rarity, it's best that you sell and exit.
there will always be enough buyers of a sub 2000 mintage US coin, once the numbers are public, there will be a rush in to buy by those oblivious to the fact that these coins are even back on sale.
we are not talking tens of thousands of coins here, we are talking sub 2000. we are taking about fractional coins that start at 135 bucks, the next one up the chain, 320 bucks.
are you saying that at the sub $1000 secondary market sales price there aren't enough buyers to allow a 2-3x profit on a sub 2000 qtr and ~3000 tenth?
I say wake up and smell the coffee, you must be dreaming.
<< <i>ttown
those who are in the 08-w uncs are there for rarity not for the PM game.
the play on these unc's has nothing to do with playing PM's - as one forum member put it earlier in the topic, if you are worried about the intrinsic value of these coins dropping and not the numismatic rarity, it's best that you sell and exit.
there will always be enough buyers of a sub 2000 mintage US coin, once the numbers are public, there will be a rush in to buy by those oblivious to the fact that these coins are even back on sale.
we are not talking tens of thousands of coins here, we are talking sub 2000. we are taking about fractional coins that start at 135 bucks, the next one up the chain, 320 bucks.
are you saying that at the sub $1000 secondary market sales price there aren't enough buyers to allow a 2-3x profit on a sub 2000 qtr and ~3000 tenth?
I say wake up and smell the coffee, you must be dreaming. >>
I'm saying if you want rarity you just need to look at proof seated and barber material. These have mintages of 700 or less and 100+ years old. The leason is you have to have a collector base or they sit right around PM prices or sell for stupid cheap compared to their rarity. Just because you have a few thousand coins made if no one wants to collect them they aren't going anywhere for a long time. The old hags will be right in the same boat IMO. These are a lot of money just to buy and see what happens, esp. if your not a collector. I've got old RR watches a lot rarer than these coins and there's actually a collectors market for them but they don't sell for a grand or two.
This is my opinion only but I've been in the plats since 1999 and have seen the market more than those coming in at the 2006 blip. I wouldn't bet these will repeat, this is only a warning for flippers. Have you noticed all the pub and only the 1/10 ounce is gone and the 1/4 is on backorder? 2006 these flew off the self, spiked, and then came back to earth like many modern coins. Too many people are getting burned in the modern market to come back for seconds IMO. The spike was caused by speculators/inverstors not collectors so it didn't hold.
I've circled the block many times too. Collecting/Investing since the 1970's. The market is changing. It has been for the last 10 years with the start of the Statehood Qtr Program. I say for the better. In the mid-90's, before the Qtr program began, coin shows had dwindling attendance by 50+ year old collectors - within years of retirement - always looking to sell their coins in the near future. The outlook was getting bleak, unless younger collectors got interested, starting with Qtrs, Silver Eagles, Moderns of all types, then onto classics. WOW. A market reborn.
Like it or not, the Modern Market is here to stay. It's not a passing fad.
As with all markets, there has to be enough material to promote the hobby. The amount of Moderns produced with some real low mintage rarities is enough juice to keep it going. Promotions are key - TV, Print, etc. , otherwise it is afforded the same "death" as classics that are not "keys" to a series that have ultra low mintages.
You mention REAL rarities like Proof Seated and Barber Material. Yes it is rare. The problem is demand. There are 3 collectors or less of that stuff at every show. I think you know what I mean.
Back to the 08-w unc PLATS. Yes. There will be the flippers in on this material.
Will there be a spike in prices- if the mintages come in where many that are very familiar with these moderns think they will - absolutely.
Do many members buy more of these than they intend to keep for themselves? Absolutely. And they probably fund their other collecting interests with the proceeds of the secondary market sales.
The 1/4 is toast as well. It is gone. Try an order one - tell me if you get it. The "Product Not Available" will show there very soon. Followed by the half or 4 cn sets.
It took the 06-w unc's about 2 weeks AFTER the tenth sold out to see the qtr sellout, then a week to sell out the remaining options. It has only been 5 days since the tenth sold out.
Once the promotions start (i.e. print and TV), there is never enough to go around for sub 06w unc plat mintage level coins.
1. A $100 item is easier to flip than a $1000 dollars item
2. A solid collector base must exist.
3. Although something is rare in order for it to take off their must be enough of a supply for dealer to promote or they are on there own and a collectors nitch.
You may very well be right but moderns here to stay? I collect moderns and state quarters and like I said they spike and come back down in general. Even the 1999 silver proof set is selling for a lot less then it's peak and when the program ends we'll see if it holds, with some of the stupid money for these high mintages I say it's wishful thinking. Anyway not trying to attack you just bringing another view to this thead from someone that's been in the trenches too.
Edit:
BTW: I think the quarter are on backorder waiting for returns. They seem to over sell knowing the games investors are playing, no one needs 10 or 100 of any coin they collect so your either a 70 hunter or a major dealer if your buying that many.
<< <i>The UNC coin are a lottery IMO, you may win or lose. They had a shot in the future since they are a very short series at this point but if you notice everyone is talking about fliping these and making money, where's the collectors? Well those that collect have them right now and won't need to buy your coins IMO. If you want to be in the PM game gold and silver is a better bet at this time in the ecomony IMO. >>
ttown, you miss the point of flipping. You flip to make money, not to collect. Flippers don't care about collectors. Most of the flips go to subsequent flippers looking to cash in on a hot commodity (ie "Greed). The name of the game is "The Flip". The last one in the flipping game is the guy who didn't do his homework. Be it a collector or flipper. Pity not the fool.
We all remember the new "flipper" named Seven aka "Last Word Larry". Came on this board and started insulting lopng time members because he didn't agree with their assessment of the market. He didn't do his homework, he lost out an a 2x flip on his proof set and there are many of us who feel no pity for him.
Anyone spending this kind of money on their collecting interests had better do their homework. If they don't, then either shame on them or they didn't work hard enough for their money because they didn't place enough value on it to do a little research..
Even if you are correct, I still fail to see your motivation to pump this item. If you bought a crap load of them, why do you want them to sell out so bad? Would it not make more sense for the year to end and go under radar with coins that not only was a low mintage but they did not sell out? I would not want to be the one pushing for people to invest their hard earned money in either direction, if this goes well you will be the hero; but if it goes south then what?
If you are looking for some comparisons, the 06-w quarter took 2 WEEKS to go backorder and then unavailable AFTER the tenth oz coin. The 08-w quarter took 1 DAY to go backorder after the 08-w tenth sold out.
That said, very high percentages of the customers "backordered" on 06-w coins were disappointed to never get the coins, and the orders were subsequently cancelled.
As Coinhog stated, retail sales are already $300 for the tenth and $500 for the quarter. I dont think there will be many returns.
No pumping going on here. You have the wrong impression. Since you are new to the forum, please visit more threads and read more posts. We all have a passion for collecting these small pieces of history.
What I write is MY OPINION - it is not ADVICE. All of us do the same, whether it is positive or negative, it is still OPINION until the facts are known.
Many board members have stated factual SALES numbers obtained from official sources, NN publishes this every week in their paper.
I bought these coins, so have many others.
When you look at anything you purchase -potentially with the hope of selling it for more than you paid, one question that comes to mind is "What is the downside?" I'm sure we can come up with tens of reasons - pro's and con's. One mitigating factor of risk on the downside to any USM purchase is the 30 day return policy if you are not satisified with your purchase.
I dont have a crystal ball to peer into, I dont know where this will all end up. It's entirely up to you what you choose to do.
It really could go either way. I collect so if the price goes down dirt cheap all the better for me. If rumors are correct the 1/10 ounces are not being produced in 2009 so I'll have all 27 1/10 ouncers and most of the 1/4 ounce series. I'd love them to drop to complete the 1/4 and start working on the 1/2 and 1 ounce series. In a bad ecomony Platium is going to fall much more than gold since most of it is used in industry. I could see it becoming popular in jewlery but it will never exceed 5% of prodcution IMO.
The instructions are printed on the PCGS submittal form, which can be downloaded. You can send in a single coin in a 2 1/2" x 2 1/2" flip, or you can send the set in and let them bust the coins out - either way.
I knew it would happen.
the tenth officially soldout (according to NN) with the Dec 12th sales report (Week of December 4th)
the quarter soldout (according to NN) with the Dec 18th sales report (Week of December 11th)
The tenth was unavailable for at least a few days before the week of Dec 4th 2006, then went "Unavailable" early the week of the 4th.
The quarter went "Unavailable on a Tuesday, I believe, probably the 12th. The four coin set went after that.
Now I remember I missed the 1/10 ounce 2006 and had to buy it graded MS69 from "Manofcoins" for $300 and ordered the others duning the weekend, my bad, it's been awhile
How did you get your dimensions?????
I used my 10X loupe and a metal ruler with 1 mm increments.
Then I added or subtracted human hairs to arrive at my final number.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>A human hair is .003 or 3/1000th....did you use calipers or a yard stick??
How did you get your dimensions?????
I used my 10X loupe and a metal ruler with 1 mm increments.
Then I added or subtracted human hairs to arrive at my final number.
So, it was scientifific after alll!!!
ULTRA RARITIES None 2-5 days $500
RARITIES $200,000 2-5 days $200
SHOW EXPRESS $200,000 2-3 hours $200
SHOW $100,000 1 day $100
WALKTHROUGH(In-House) $100,000 2 days $100
EXPRESS $20,000 5 days $50
REGULAR $3,000 15 days $30
ECONOMY (Non-Gold) $300 20-30 days $18
MODERN (1965 to date) $300 20-30 days $14
MINT ERRORS $20,000 25-35 days $40
SPECIAL ISSUES (Colonials, Fractional Gold, Patterns) $20,000 25-35 days $40
REHOLDER
None 10-12 days $10
<< <i>modern? >>
Modern shows a limit of $300.00 per coin. the half & one ounce coins exceed that value.
<< <i>[ I'd like to see less flipper and more collectors and until that happens these are hot potatoes IMO.
>>
There are many years to produce more collectors, but no more years to produce 2008 coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>modern? >>
Modern shows a limit of $300.00 per coin. the half & one ounce coins exceed that value.
They have a face value of $100 and $50 though...?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>modern? >>
Modern shows a limit of $300.00 per coin. the half & one ounce coins exceed that value.
They have a face value of $100 and $50 though...? >>
Practically no coins have grater than $300.00 face value?
retail sales are already $300 for the tenth and $500 for the quarter.
If the quarter ounce burnished is selling for $500, I would rather buy a half ounce from the Mint for $120 more. Twice as much precious metal, easier to see and appreciate the design, and potentially lower mintage.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
