<< <i>19Lyds, there are such things as class action law suits. Hundreds, thousands of people have been affected by these coins, and I'm sure that some of them either are lawyers or have family and/or friends who are lawyers.
>>
What the heck are you talking about ??
"Hundreds, thousands of people have been affected by these coins," Thousands affected ?!?!?
<< <i>I appreciate the welcome here. Thanks. I learned a long time ago that God gave us two ears (and in this case two eyes) and one mouth for a reason. I have learned a ton from reading your opinions and experiences, digested what I thought was pertinent and disregarded some of the rest. I would appreciate the collective input from y'all about someone who may or may not be a member here, so i shall not give his name, but in an email yesterday to me, he told me (paraphrase) that he had just retired from the US Mint as some kind of manager and that he thought 364 07 reverse dies were used on the 08's before being changed and that it was not unusual to use up the dies from the previous year. He said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands"--(whatever parameters that was).
I don't doubt he was who he says he is, but could it be possible that that many dies were used and that the previous statement from Mint officials were way off about the 47,000 that were minted? Opinions????????? >>
I'll wager that the Mint keeps damn close tabs on the # of dies used, which dies are used, where they are, etc. These dies are made, probably in pairs, at Philadelphia and shipped to West Point. With leftover dies, if the reverse is usable for the next year, then the obverse dies have to be destroyed. That # of unpaired rev. dies have to be produced. With this being said, the Mint person that investigated this should have easily been able to determine the # of dies used, and probably the # of planchets struck. Anyway what reason would the Mint have to lie about it? JMO.
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Good Lord, I didn't realize that I'd rub so many people the wrong way with that post. It must be an ego thing. You're probably assuming that I'm being arrogant or stuck up or something like that. No, I'm not trying to say that I'm better than any of you. In fact, I'd be the first to come forward to show everyone of all the limitations I have. I know my weaknesses and frailties. I know my ignorance and inadequacies. Yes, I know and acknowledge all of my failures...but still, I'll do what I can. That's how I find my worth. In the game of life, I know that I will fail, time and time again. The only thing I can really do is to try.
Whether I win or fail isn't entirely in my control. In fact, I'd say that I have a very little role in ultimate sucess or failure. But I do what I can control, and that's all I can do. Others may blame me, I might blame myself...but how could they...how could I blame myself for taking what I have and using it to the best of my ability?
Anyway, I apologize for all this off topic stuff. Whatever happens to the price of this coin...chances are, it's going to happen whatever we do. None of us (well, at least I think that none of us) has that much of a control on the price of this coin. The only thing that we can do is just do our best and make the best decision we can make. Afterwards, regret is always a possibility...but by then, we need to remember that on this day, we're doing the best we can with what we've got...
I'm not trying to be arrogant or stuck up or try to show that I can do more than everyone else. Maybe I'm just trying to show everyone that we can all do more, if we just...if we can just change our attitudes and let go of all that garbage that's accumulated since our youth. Remember when we were young? Everything seemed possible back then...
<< <i>I appreciate the welcome here. Thanks. I learned a long time ago that God gave us two ears (and in this case two eyes) and one mouth for a reason. I have learned a ton from reading your opinions and experiences, digested what I thought was pertinent and disregarded some of the rest. I would appreciate the collective input from y'all about someone who may or may not be a member here, so i shall not give his name, but in an email yesterday to me, he told me (paraphrase) that he had just retired from the US Mint as some kind of manager and that he thought 364 07 reverse dies were used on the 08's before being changed and that it was not unusual to use up the dies from the previous year. He said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands"--(whatever parameters that was).
I don't doubt he was who he says he is, but could it be possible that that many dies were used and that the previous statement from Mint officials were way off about the 47,000 that were minted? Opinions????????? >>
I'll wager that the Mint keeps damn close tabs on the # of dies used, which dies are used, where they are, etc. These dies are made, probably in pairs, at Philadelphia and shipped to West Point. With leftover dies, if the reverse is usable for the next year, then the obverse dies have to be destroyed. That # of unpaired rev. dies have to be produced. With this being said, the Mint person that investigated this should have easily been able to determine the # of dies used, and probably the # of planchets struck. Anyway what reason would the Mint have to lie about it? JMO.
Regards, John >>
I think you're pretty damn close John!
My guess is the coins are struck under an absolute amount and then the dies are changed. I calculated 3133 hits per die, possibly double struck, based on 47,000 coin with 15 dies. They do keep tabs on whats being struck and when its struck otherwise they wouldn't be able to provide a certification slip for a specific state quarter struck from a specific die which is what they do when you purchase one of the defaced State Quarter dies.
Mr. SilverMallard that posted that stuff about 364 reverse dies being used shoulda thought that one out a little bit since to date, Numismatic News is reporting , as of 6/4, 317,647 SAE 1 ounce coins being sold. I suspect the over all mintage is less than 750,000 which means according to Mr. SilverMallard's source, every one of them should be 08/07's.
Whatever.............................
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I almost forgot to add one small simple little fact.
The US Mint has been producing the Silver American Eagle since 1986 with very minimal changes in the design yet more changes in the method of manufacture. There are no doubled dies. There are no repunched mint marks. As far as I know, there are no clips.
There are simply no major errors at all.
This error or variety, or whatever you want to call it, is the best thing to happen to the Silver Eagle market since PCGS started the First Strike Program or graded the first MS70. As it continue's on, it will bring more collectors into the fold as they learn of it. It is easily recognizeable and for right now, brings a surprisingly strong premium.
Any coin, regardless of what it is, would have had the exact same affect in the coin collecting business! Regardless of when or if prices come down, the attraction of the coin will remain and I cannot fault anybody for being exicting about obtaining one of these at this moment in time. I know I was excited as it's unavoidable!
Just be careful that your excitement doesn't exceed you pocket book as another fact in the coin collecting business is that once things start cooling off, they can get cold pretty quick. All it takes is for another hot item to come along to knock this coin off the top of the heap!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I'm not trying to be arrogant or stuck up or try to show that I can do more than everyone else. Maybe I'm just trying to show everyone that we can all do more, if we just...if we can just change our attitudes and let go of all that garbage that's accumulated since our youth. Remember when we were young? Everything seemed possible back then... >>
Maybe you should start a new thread and rant there about all your crazy ideas or thoughts. Keep this thred freed up for the straight shooters.
<< <i>I'm still pretty new to this, but would it be safe to say that which ever seller just spends more time on preparing a good posting (and really paying attention to detail) would probably get the higher final price? I mean, I would assume this is the case. It really makes a big difference when you just slap something together rather than spend some time doing some homework to make your item look more presentable. Just my humble opinion. >>
Interesting perspective. For more uncommon items this would certainly make sense. However, for items where there are tens to hundreds of the same item listed at a given time (like these) I've seen many sellers do very well with just a pic, and thier selling policies and no other narritive. The sellers assume that those shopping for the item know what it is. Certainly saves time when posting an ad!
<< <i>Maybe you should start a new thread and rant there about all your crazy ideas or thoughts. Keep this thred freed up for the straight shooters. >>
<< <i>Interesting perspective. For more uncommon items this would certainly make sense. However, for items where there are tens to hundreds of the same item listed at a given time (like these) I've seen many sellers do very well with just a pic, and thier selling policies and no other narritive. The sellers assume that those shopping for the item know what it is. Certainly saves time when posting an ad! >>
Well, that may be true. But hey, if you've got the time or energy, then why not maximize your chances and do a little bit of leg work before hand? Can't hurt, right?
<< <i>What's the matter? My report every morning ain't excitin' enough? >>
jsf, No offense, but I still don't understand it. I know you've been in on this fiasco since the very beginning and know alot more than I. I probably just missed the page where you explained it.
<< <i>TextHe said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands" >>
I doubt that this is true because if it were and if you look back at the post of those who placed their orders not all of them got a single 07 reverse despite a volume order of a 100 coins ,no 07 reverse would show up. Also after a certain date no further reports of an 07 being found in large quantities was reported either.Maybe one here and two there.
<< <i>Interesting perspective. For more uncommon items this would certainly make sense. However, for items where there are tens to hundreds of the same item listed at a given time (like these) I've seen many sellers do very well with just a pic, and thier selling policies and no other narritive. The sellers assume that those shopping for the item know what it is. Certainly saves time when posting an ad! >>
Well, that may be true. But hey, if you've got the time or energy, then why not maximize your chances and do a little bit of leg work before hand? Can't hurt, right? >>
Definitely can't hurt, can only help. I totally agree. It's that time and energy thing.... :-)
Just a follow up on the 08/07 brown label MS69 that was bid up to $666.66 yesterday....It sold for $676.66!!! For a MS69 non-ER!!! One of our forun members has an ER 69 on BIN for $545 and it's still sitting there....Go figure # 140239643690
Im just waiting for them to come down a little bit.
Then Im back in the buying mode.
Currently holding a few getting ready to re-up. So if you got tons of them start dumping.
I will not buy any more at these prices. Why I simply cannot afford to get all I want.
I have 8 in California for grading. Non first strike. I personally feel I have 1 or 2 70's maybe up to four in that batch.
I took them to the Baltimore show last saturday. Entered into the system on Tues. Being graded as economy any thought when I may hear something. Im sure it could be up to three weeks. Im just looking for current turnaround times.
<< <i>Just a follow up on the 08/07 brown label MS69 that was bid up to $666.66 yesterday....It sold for $676.66!!! For a MS69 non-ER!!! One of our forun members has an ER 69 on BIN for $545 and it's still sitting there....Go figure # 140239643690 >>
And there are some on the BS&T board for less than that that don't seem to be gettin sold.
<< <i>Im just waiting for them to come down a little bit.
Then Im back in the buying mode.
Currently holding a few getting ready to re-up. So if you got tons of them start dumping.
I will not buy any more at these prices. Why I simply cannot afford to get all I want.
I have 8 in California for grading. Non first strike. I personally feel I have 1 or 2 70's maybe up to four in that batch.
I took them to the Baltimore show last saturday. Entered into the system on Tues. Being graded as economy any thought when I may hear something. Im sure it could be up to three weeks. Im just looking for current turnaround times.
Mitsuecl3338
<< <i>
Sent in 8 under Modern, received on 6/6, got grades posted on 6/11, shipped back to me on 6/12, current turnaround 5 days....Oh Ya I got 8 69's....Order #20203626 / Submission #9092082
Look at these two auctions. Ebay item #140239643690 and #320262532934. Couldn't figure why the NGC sold for $100 more until I noticed it was in the "error" category instead of the "American Eagle" category like the PCGS coin. These should probably be listed in both categories to bring top dollar!
<< <i>Couldn't figure why the NGC sold for $100 more until I noticed it was in the "error" category instead of the "American Eagle" category >>
Could be..... but most looking to buy would do a search under 2008 w reverse (or similar) and it would show no matter which category it was placed. I guess if one was randomly browsing "errors" then it would show
SO does anyone have the info on the dealer buy list. Cause honestly this determines current market trade value.
I heard it was trending upward. That was the latest news I got when I was at the Baltimore show.
Same person told me to sell because she thought it was going to crash.
However I'm not a dumb fish. >>
i dont have any info on dealer buy list, but as far these crashing, i would have to say no. prices are down a little this weekend do to father's day. i think by july 4 the run of ngc gold labels will thin out just like the raw, ngc early release label are getting real thin. also the summer slow is just about here and same coins are being bought and sold over and over and that is starting to stop.
First of all, people have been threatening the US mint since it opened, and no attorney worth his or her salt would take on the US government over an issue like this, it would cost a lot of money and not from the attorney...
As for the 364 statement....imagine a US Mint employee being wrong or making a mistake.....
<< <i>My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >>
And did he offer to buy or what? >>
he said sell so i'd assume that didn't mean he would buy...lol
my experience doesn't go back that far, just the 06 set hype and reverse proof (Au and Ag) and 06-W.......
with the 08/07 ....get in, get out, go home happy. if you want one for your personal collection nothing wrong or, if you have a handfull or small cache from the mint @ mint issue price...good for you, in fact....
if you are in this for the thrill of the "going through the roof"...have your own altimiter set... speculation has it's ups and downs
i do not think comparing these to the 95-W proof in terms of price will ever be realized
this coin will never be a registry coin.
thanks John...i made some nice flip money on this and i am grateful $$$, i should have backed more into the truck but didn't my only regret.
i do have more of an attraction the 06 ASE reverse proofs....even if 5x as many are around
and thankfully my last post on this subject here, off my soapbox.
I appreciate the welcome here. Thanks. I learned a long time ago that God gave us two ears (and in this case two eyes) and one mouth for a reason. I have learned a ton from reading your opinions and experiences, digested what I thought was pertinent and disregarded some of the rest. I would appreciate the collective input from y'all about someone who may or may not be a member here, so i shall not give his name, but in an email yesterday to me, he told me (paraphrase) that he had just retired from the US Mint as some kind of manager and that he thought 364 07 reverse dies were used on the 08's before being changed and that it was not unusual to use up the dies from the previous year. He said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands"--(whatever parameters that was).
Why spend the money to make new dies for 2008 if you were going to use the 07 dies for the 08s anyway?
A us mint employee and a manager at that..... Geez a managment person at the US MInt being clueless does not suprise me at all..
Why are the us mint packages for the 2008 W ASE being gone through before shipment?
Somebaody mentioned "class action lawsuits" For what? what are the damages? Hey I bought a coin from the mint for 25 bucks and I cannot sell it for a profit and it is the US mints fault.....
Better still, I bought a us mint product off ebay and they said it was rare and it turned out not to be so I want to sue the US mint....
No matter how you slice and dice this coin,it will always be a winner.From all the numbers that have been thrown out there,it looks like less than 30,000 made it's great escape from the mint.Once all the flipping stops,i see this coin doing nothing but going up.There are many more collectors that will need this coin to call thier sets complete.Of course that's just my opinion.
<< <i>No matter how you slice and dice this coin,it will always be a winner.From all the numbers that have been thrown out there,it looks like less than 30,000 made it's great escape from the mint.Once all the flipping stops,i see this coin doing nothing but going up.There are many more collectors that will need this coin to call thier sets complete.Of course that's just my opinion. >>
How much are you willing to sell them for? I'd be happy to take them off of your hands for a good price.
It's funny, but it seems like the ones that hope that the coin will crash are either those who don't/never had the coin, or those who have already sold them.
Wow, looking more carefully at the two variations, I've noticed that not just the U, the stars, the mintmark, and the "^" symbol are different, but the all of the font is different.
You may not be able to tell with these pics side by side, but if you download both, and open both in its own window, and do an "alt/tab" between the two, you can tell very clearly how distinctive the fonts are from each other.
It's funny, but it seems like the ones that hope that the coin will crash are either those who don't/never had the coin, or those who have already sold them.
>>
bingo.. sour grapes..
and why someone would come out of nowhere and conjure up a story about an "anonymous former Mint manager" and claim this anonymous person told him hundreds of 2007-W Reverse dies were used on the 2008-Ws.. (which would result in at least triple the number of 2008-W ASEs that even exist).. what his motivation would be for posting such nonsense can only be left to the imagination.. and to whatever personal agenda he's trying to foist..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<<Wow, looking more carefully at the two variations, I've noticed that not just the U, the stars, the mintmark, and the "^" symbol are different, but the all of the font is different.>>
All of the font's at the edges, received suttle modifications on both obverse and reverse.
IGWT is also slighly different, the "U" in TRUST, now has the downstroke(u).
It's funny to read some of the listings, there all talkin about the U.
<< <i>All of the font's at the edges, received suttle modifications on both obverse and reverse.
IGWT is also slighly different, the "U" in TRUST, now has the downstroke(u).
It's funny to read some of the listings, there all talkin about the U. >>
For the 2008 W Burnished coins, the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
Look, I'm still pretty new to this hobby, but it seems like with most of the other variations that I've seen (in books, magazines) such as double dies, additional feathers, double nose tips, etc, you'd have to get a 5x or 10x loupe and really know what to look for in order to determine the variation. But with this one, it's just SO glaringly obvious!
<< <i>All of the font's at the edges, received suttle modifications on both obverse and reverse.
IGWT is also slighly different, the "U" in TRUST, now has the downstroke(u).
It's funny to read some of the listings, there all talkin about the U. >>
For the 2008 W Burnished coins, the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
Look, I'm still pretty new to this hobby, but it seems like with most of the other variations that I've seen (in books, magazines) such as double dies, additional feathers, double nose tips, etc, you'd have to get a 5x or 10x loupe and really know what to look for in order to determine the variation. But with this one, it's just SO glaringly obvious! >>
You should go back to post 1 of this thread and read it from the beginning. Most of YOUR observations have been discussed in detail about a month and a half ago. You sound like a posting parrot.
<< <i>You should go back to post 1 of this thread and read it from the beginning. Most of YOUR observations have been discussed in detail about a month and a half ago. You sound like a posting parrot. >>
Well, jessewvu, thank you so much for deep comments, pointing out my ignorance and comparing me to a bird.
A bit bitter, are we? Didn't your mother ever tell you: "If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all."?
<< <i> My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >> >>
This is done so that people will panic and then the market will get saturated with whatever supply is available and thus the prices will fall temporarily. Then they(dealers) will purchase all they can buy at deflated prices and once they get control of the majority of the supplies out there ...they can then do what TonyKwoo was saying all along. Dictate the price. Just my own opinion.
<< <i>This is done so that people will panic and then the market will get saturated with whatever supply is available and thus the prices will fall temporarily. Then they(dealers) will purchase all they can buy at deflated prices and once they get control of the majority of the supplies out there ...they can then do what TonyKwoo was saying all along. Dictate the price. Just my own opinion. >>
<< <i>the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
It is the same, the whole coin went through a font makeover.
Look at a coin from 07, you'll see the changes in the style of font.
Edit:
$492 raw, with crappy pics. Sales still appear to be strong. Eagle >>
If the obverse is the same as all previous years [cept fer the date a course] then this 08-w rev 07 as she's called is indeed the next logical coin in the series and the rev of 08 version is still at this point the oddball?
<< <i>If the obverse is the same as all previous years [cept fer the date a course] then this 08-w rev 07 as she's called is indeed the next logical coin in the series and the rev of 08 version is still at this point the oddball? >>
<< <i>the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
It is the same, the whole coin went through a font makeover.
Look at a coin from 07, you'll see the changes in the style of font.
Edit:
$492 raw, with crappy pics. Sales still appear to be strong. Eagle >>
If the obverse is the same as all previous years [cept fer the date a course] then this 08-w rev 07 as she's called is indeed the next logical coin in the series and the rev of 08 version is still at this point the oddball? >>
The obverse lettering is different on the 2008.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i> My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >> >>
This is done so that people will panic and then the market will get saturated with whatever supply is available and thus the prices will fall temporarily. Then they(dealers) will purchase all they can buy at deflated prices and once they get control of the majority of the supplies out there ...they can then do what TonyKwoo was saying all along. Dictate the price. Just my own opinion. >>
This is one coin where the elites (big coin dealers) were caught behind the curve for the most part. How dare the "little people" get such a head start. Why, many of the coins were obtained directly fromt the mint and not from the elites with their usual mark up. Even more degrading for the elites is that they themselves had to purchase the coins from the "little people" in many cases (oh that hurts). The elites are disturbed by this and therefore the coin will be trashed....at least until the elites have a good percentage of them then all of a sudden they will be a great coin to have.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>You should go back to post 1 of this thread and read it from the beginning. Most of YOUR observations have been discussed in detail about a month and a half ago. You sound like a posting parrot. >>
Well, jessewvu, thank you so much for deep comments, pointing out my ignorance and comparing me to a bird.
A bit bitter, are we? Didn't your mother ever tell you: "If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all."? >>
Bitter? Not really. This is what my mom did to me as a child so don't take me too seriously.
I'm just saying you should take a look at the past 3500 posts that were made prior to your enterence here. Everything you could possibly want to know has probably already been discussed here in detail.
Comments
<< <i>19Lyds, there are such things as class action law suits. Hundreds, thousands of people have been affected by these coins, and I'm sure that some of them either are lawyers or have family and/or friends who are lawyers.
>>
What the heck are you talking about ??
"Hundreds, thousands of people have been affected by these coins," Thousands affected ?!?!?
Are they toxic ?
Are we all going to die ?!?!?
<< <i>I appreciate the welcome here. Thanks. I learned a long time ago that God gave us two ears (and in this case two eyes) and one mouth for a reason. I have learned a ton from reading your opinions and experiences, digested what I thought was pertinent and disregarded some of the rest. I would appreciate the collective input from y'all about someone who may or may not be a member here, so i shall not give his name, but in an email yesterday to me, he told me (paraphrase) that he had just retired from the US Mint as some kind of manager and that he thought 364 07 reverse dies were used on the 08's before being changed and that it was not unusual to use up the dies from the previous year. He said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands"--(whatever parameters that was).
I don't doubt he was who he says he is, but could it be possible that that many dies were used and that the previous statement from Mint officials were way off about the 47,000 that were minted? Opinions????????? >>
I'll wager that the Mint keeps damn close tabs on the # of dies used, which dies are used, where they are, etc. These dies are made, probably in pairs, at Philadelphia and shipped to West Point. With leftover dies, if the reverse is usable for the next year, then the obverse dies have to be destroyed. That # of unpaired rev. dies have to be produced.
With this being said, the Mint person that investigated this should have easily been able to determine the # of dies used, and probably the # of planchets struck. Anyway what reason would the Mint have to lie about it? JMO.
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Whether I win or fail isn't entirely in my control. In fact, I'd say that I have a very little role in ultimate sucess or failure. But I do what I can control, and that's all I can do. Others may blame me, I might blame myself...but how could they...how could I blame myself for taking what I have and using it to the best of my ability?
Anyway, I apologize for all this off topic stuff. Whatever happens to the price of this coin...chances are, it's going to happen whatever we do. None of us (well, at least I think that none of us) has that much of a control on the price of this coin. The only thing that we can do is just do our best and make the best decision we can make. Afterwards, regret is always a possibility...but by then, we need to remember that on this day, we're doing the best we can with what we've got...
I'm not trying to be arrogant or stuck up or try to show that I can do more than everyone else. Maybe I'm just trying to show everyone that we can all do more, if we just...if we can just change our attitudes and let go of all that garbage that's accumulated since our youth. Remember when we were young? Everything seemed possible back then...
<< <i>
<< <i>I appreciate the welcome here. Thanks. I learned a long time ago that God gave us two ears (and in this case two eyes) and one mouth for a reason. I have learned a ton from reading your opinions and experiences, digested what I thought was pertinent and disregarded some of the rest. I would appreciate the collective input from y'all about someone who may or may not be a member here, so i shall not give his name, but in an email yesterday to me, he told me (paraphrase) that he had just retired from the US Mint as some kind of manager and that he thought 364 07 reverse dies were used on the 08's before being changed and that it was not unusual to use up the dies from the previous year. He said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands"--(whatever parameters that was).
I don't doubt he was who he says he is, but could it be possible that that many dies were used and that the previous statement from Mint officials were way off about the 47,000 that were minted? Opinions????????? >>
I'll wager that the Mint keeps damn close tabs on the # of dies used, which dies are used, where they are, etc. These dies are made, probably in pairs, at Philadelphia and shipped to West Point. With leftover dies, if the reverse is usable for the next year, then the obverse dies have to be destroyed. That # of unpaired rev. dies have to be produced.
With this being said, the Mint person that investigated this should have easily been able to determine the # of dies used, and probably the # of planchets struck. Anyway what reason would the Mint have to lie about it? JMO.
Regards, John >>
I think you're pretty damn close John!
My guess is the coins are struck under an absolute amount and then the dies are changed. I calculated 3133 hits per die, possibly double struck, based on 47,000 coin with 15 dies. They do keep tabs on whats being struck and when its struck otherwise they wouldn't be able to provide a certification slip for a specific state quarter struck from a specific die which is what they do when you purchase one of the defaced State Quarter dies.
Mr. SilverMallard that posted that stuff about 364 reverse dies being used shoulda thought that one out a little bit since to date, Numismatic News is reporting , as of 6/4, 317,647 SAE 1 ounce coins being sold. I suspect the over all mintage is less than 750,000 which means according to Mr. SilverMallard's source, every one of them should be 08/07's.
Whatever.............................
The name is LEE!
The US Mint has been producing the Silver American Eagle since 1986 with very minimal changes in the design yet more changes in the method of manufacture.
There are no doubled dies. There are no repunched mint marks. As far as I know, there are no clips.
There are simply no major errors at all.
This error or variety, or whatever you want to call it, is the best thing to happen to the Silver Eagle market since PCGS started the First Strike Program or graded the first MS70. As it continue's on, it will bring more collectors into the fold as they learn of it. It is easily recognizeable and for right now, brings a surprisingly strong premium.
Any coin, regardless of what it is, would have had the exact same affect in the coin collecting business! Regardless of when or if prices come down, the attraction of the coin will remain and I cannot fault anybody for being exicting about obtaining one of these at this moment in time. I know I was excited as it's unavoidable!
Just be careful that your excitement doesn't exceed you pocket book as another fact in the coin collecting business is that once things start cooling off, they can get cold pretty quick. All it takes is for another hot item to come along to knock this coin off the top of the heap!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I'm not trying to be arrogant or stuck up or try to show that I can do more than everyone else. Maybe I'm just trying to show everyone that we can all do more, if we just...if we can just change our attitudes and let go of all that garbage that's accumulated since our youth. Remember when we were young? Everything seemed possible back then... >>
Maybe you should start a new thread and rant there about all your crazy ideas or thoughts. Keep this thred freed up for the straight shooters.
<< <i>I'm still pretty new to this, but would it be safe to say that which ever seller just spends more time on preparing a good posting (and really paying attention to detail) would probably get the higher final price? I mean, I would assume this is the case. It really makes a big difference when you just slap something together rather than spend some time doing some homework to make your item look more presentable. Just my humble opinion. >>
Interesting perspective. For more uncommon items this would certainly make sense. However, for items where there are tens to hundreds of the same item listed at a given time (like these) I've seen many sellers do very well with just a pic, and thier selling policies and no other narritive. The sellers assume that those shopping for the item know what it is. Certainly saves time when posting an ad!
<< <i>Maybe you should start a new thread and rant there about all your crazy ideas or thoughts. Keep this thred freed up for the straight shooters. >>
But I keep things so interesting!
<< <i>That is just a lot of B.S. If there were any where near that number there would be a lot more out there. >>
Agree 100%. Between my friends and I, we've searched through over 300 recently. Many were NOT returns. NONE were '07 Revs.
<< <i>Interesting perspective. For more uncommon items this would certainly make sense. However, for items where there are tens to hundreds of the same item listed at a given time (like these) I've seen many sellers do very well with just a pic, and thier selling policies and no other narritive. The sellers assume that those shopping for the item know what it is. Certainly saves time when posting an ad! >>
Well, that may be true. But hey, if you've got the time or energy, then why not maximize your chances and do a little bit of leg work before hand? Can't hurt, right?
<< <i>What's the matter? My report every morning ain't excitin' enough? >>
jsf, No offense, but I still don't understand it.
<< <i>TextHe said to sell now because there were a whole lot more than what people thought and that the population could run into the "high thousands" >>
I doubt that this is true because if it were and if you look back at the post of those who placed their orders not all of them got a single 07 reverse despite a volume order of a 100 coins ,no 07 reverse would show up. Also after a certain date no further reports of an 07 being found in large quantities was reported either.Maybe one here and two there.
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting perspective. For more uncommon items this would certainly make sense. However, for items where there are tens to hundreds of the same item listed at a given time (like these) I've seen many sellers do very well with just a pic, and thier selling policies and no other narritive. The sellers assume that those shopping for the item know what it is. Certainly saves time when posting an ad! >>
Well, that may be true. But hey, if you've got the time or energy, then why not maximize your chances and do a little bit of leg work before hand? Can't hurt, right? >>
Definitely can't hurt, can only help. I totally agree. It's that time and energy thing.... :-)
no more crumbs for the Kook.
-69 80/191 41.9%
-70 53/191 27.7
Other 58/191 30.4
Then Im back in the buying mode.
Currently holding a few getting ready to re-up. So if you got tons of them start dumping.
I will not buy any more at these prices. Why I simply cannot afford to get all I want.
I have 8 in California for grading. Non first strike. I personally feel I have 1 or 2 70's maybe up to four in that batch.
I took them to the Baltimore show last saturday. Entered into the system on Tues. Being graded as economy any thought when I may hear something. Im sure it could be up to three weeks. Im just looking for current turnaround times.
Mitsuecl3338
Have a great Day.
<< <i>Just a follow up on the 08/07 brown label MS69 that was bid up to $666.66 yesterday....It sold for $676.66!!! For a MS69 non-ER!!! One of our forun members has an ER 69 on BIN for $545 and it's still sitting there....Go figure
And there are some on the BS&T board for less than that that don't seem to be gettin sold.
<< <i>Im just waiting for them to come down a little bit.
Then Im back in the buying mode.
Currently holding a few getting ready to re-up. So if you got tons of them start dumping.
I will not buy any more at these prices. Why I simply cannot afford to get all I want.
I have 8 in California for grading. Non first strike. I personally feel I have 1 or 2 70's maybe up to four in that batch.
I took them to the Baltimore show last saturday. Entered into the system on Tues. Being graded as economy any thought when I may hear something. Im sure it could be up to three weeks. Im just looking for current turnaround times.
Mitsuecl3338
<< <i>
Sent in 8 under Modern, received on 6/6, got grades posted on 6/11, shipped back to me on 6/12, current turnaround 5 days....Oh Ya I got 8 69's....Order #20203626 / Submission #9092082
<< <i>Couldn't figure why the NGC sold for $100 more until I noticed it was in the "error" category instead of the "American Eagle" category >>
Could be..... but most looking to buy would do a search under 2008 w reverse (or similar) and it would show no matter which category it was placed. I guess if one was randomly browsing "errors" then it would show
SO does anyone have the info on the dealer buy list. Cause honestly this determines current market trade value.
I heard it was trending upward. That was the latest news I got when I was at the Baltimore show.
Same person told me to sell because she thought it was going to crash.
However I'm not a dumb fish.
<< <i>+2
SO does anyone have the info on the dealer buy list. Cause honestly this determines current market trade value.
I heard it was trending upward. That was the latest news I got when I was at the Baltimore show.
Same person told me to sell because she thought it was going to crash.
However I'm not a dumb fish. >>
i dont have any info on dealer buy list, but as far these crashing, i would have to say no.
prices are down a little this weekend do to father's day.
i think by july 4 the run of ngc gold labels will thin out just like the raw, ngc early release label are getting real thin.
also the summer slow is just about here and same coins are being bought and sold over and over and that is starting to stop.
<< <i>My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >>
And did he offer to buy or what?
The name is LEE!
As for the 364 statement....imagine a US Mint employee being wrong or making a mistake.....
<< <i>
<< <i>My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >>
And did he offer to buy or what? >>
he said sell so i'd assume that didn't mean he would buy...lol
my experience doesn't go back that far, just the 06 set hype and reverse proof (Au and Ag) and 06-W.......
with the 08/07 ....get in, get out, go home happy. if you want one for your personal collection nothing wrong or, if you have a handfull or small cache from the mint @ mint issue price...good for you, in fact....
if you are in this for the thrill of the "going through the roof"...have your own altimiter set... speculation has it's ups and downs
i do not think comparing these to the 95-W proof in terms of price will ever be realized
this coin will never be a registry coin.
thanks John...i made some nice flip money on this and i am grateful $$$, i should have backed more into the truck but didn't my only regret.
i do have more of an attraction the 06 ASE reverse proofs....even if 5x as many are around
and thankfully my last post on this subject here, off my soapbox.
Why spend the money to make new dies for 2008 if you were going to use the 07 dies for the 08s anyway?
A us mint employee and a manager at that..... Geez a managment person at the US MInt being clueless does not suprise me at all..
Why are the us mint packages for the 2008 W ASE being gone through before shipment?
Somebaody mentioned "class action lawsuits" For what? what are the damages? Hey I bought a coin from the mint for 25 bucks and I cannot sell it for a profit and it is the US mints fault.....
Better still, I bought a us mint product off ebay and they said it was rare and it turned out not to be so I want to sue the US mint....
Happy Fathers Day!
<< <i>No matter how you slice and dice this coin,it will always be a winner.From all the numbers that have been thrown out there,it looks like less than 30,000 made it's great escape from the mint.Once all the flipping stops,i see this coin doing nothing but going up.There are many more collectors that will need this coin to call thier sets complete.Of course that's just my opinion. >>
I agree.
It's funny, but it seems like the ones that hope that the coin will crash are either those who don't/never had the coin, or those who have already sold them.
Wow, looking more carefully at the two variations, I've noticed that not just the U, the stars, the mintmark, and the "^" symbol are different, but the all of the font is different.
You may not be able to tell with these pics side by side, but if you download both, and open both in its own window, and do an "alt/tab" between the two, you can tell very clearly how distinctive the fonts are from each other.
<< <i>
It's funny, but it seems like the ones that hope that the coin will crash are either those who don't/never had the coin, or those who have already sold them.
>>
bingo.. sour grapes..
and why someone would come out of nowhere and conjure up a story about an "anonymous former Mint manager" and claim this anonymous person told him hundreds of 2007-W Reverse dies were used on the 2008-Ws.. (which would result in at least triple the number of 2008-W ASEs that even exist).. what his motivation would be for posting such nonsense can only be left to the imagination.. and to whatever personal agenda he's trying to foist..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
All of the font's at the edges, received suttle modifications on both obverse and reverse.
IGWT is also slighly different, the "U" in TRUST, now has the downstroke(u).
It's funny to read some of the listings, there all talkin about the U.
<< <i>All of the font's at the edges, received suttle modifications on both obverse and reverse.
IGWT is also slighly different, the "U" in TRUST, now has the downstroke(u).
It's funny to read some of the listings, there all talkin about the U. >>
For the 2008 W Burnished coins, the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
Look, I'm still pretty new to this hobby, but it seems like with most of the other variations that I've seen (in books, magazines) such as double dies, additional feathers, double nose tips, etc, you'd have to get a 5x or 10x loupe and really know what to look for in order to determine the variation. But with this one, it's just SO glaringly obvious!
<< <i>
<< <i>All of the font's at the edges, received suttle modifications on both obverse and reverse.
IGWT is also slighly different, the "U" in TRUST, now has the downstroke(u).
It's funny to read some of the listings, there all talkin about the U. >>
For the 2008 W Burnished coins, the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
Look, I'm still pretty new to this hobby, but it seems like with most of the other variations that I've seen (in books, magazines) such as double dies, additional feathers, double nose tips, etc, you'd have to get a 5x or 10x loupe and really know what to look for in order to determine the variation. But with this one, it's just SO glaringly obvious! >>
You should go back to post 1 of this thread and read it from the beginning. Most of YOUR observations have been discussed in detail about a month and a half ago. You sound like a posting parrot.
It is the same, the whole coin went through a font makeover.
Look at a coin from 07, you'll see the changes in the style of font.
Edit:
$492 raw, with crappy pics. Sales still appear to be strong.
Eagle
<< <i>You should go back to post 1 of this thread and read it from the beginning. Most of YOUR observations have been discussed in detail about a month and a half ago. You sound like a posting parrot.
Well, jessewvu, thank you so much for deep comments, pointing out my ignorance and comparing me to a bird.
A bit bitter, are we?
<< <i>My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >>
That is what I find annoying about some dealers. Everything is crap except of course what they sell. It always works out that way.
<< <i> My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >> >>
This is done so that people will panic and then the market will get saturated with whatever supply is available and thus the prices will fall temporarily. Then they(dealers) will purchase all they can buy at deflated prices and once they get control of the majority of the supplies out there ...they can then do what TonyKwoo was saying all along. Dictate the price. Just my own opinion.
<< <i>This is done so that people will panic and then the market will get saturated with whatever supply is available and thus the prices will fall temporarily. Then they(dealers) will purchase all they can buy at deflated prices and once they get control of the majority of the supplies out there ...they can then do what TonyKwoo was saying all along. Dictate the price. Just my own opinion.
<< <i>the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
It is the same, the whole coin went through a font makeover.
Look at a coin from 07, you'll see the changes in the style of font.
Edit:
$492 raw, with crappy pics. Sales still appear to be strong.
Eagle >>
If the obverse is the same as all previous years [cept fer the date a course] then this 08-w rev 07 as she's called is indeed the next logical coin in the series and the rev of 08 version is still at this point the oddball?
<< <i>If the obverse is the same as all previous years [cept fer the date a course] then this 08-w rev 07 as she's called is indeed the next logical coin in the series and the rev of 08 version is still at this point the oddball? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>the obverse seems to be the same, for both the regular and the rev07 versions.
It is the same, the whole coin went through a font makeover.
Look at a coin from 07, you'll see the changes in the style of font.
Edit:
$492 raw, with crappy pics. Sales still appear to be strong.
Eagle >>
If the obverse is the same as all previous years [cept fer the date a course] then this 08-w rev 07 as she's called is indeed the next logical coin in the series and the rev of 08 version is still at this point the oddball? >>
The obverse lettering is different on the 2008.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i> My local dealer told me to sell mine ASAP. I think it is just to early to know on these. >> >>
This is done so that people will panic and then the market will get saturated with whatever supply is available and thus the prices will fall temporarily. Then they(dealers) will purchase all they can buy at deflated prices and once they get control of the majority of the supplies out there ...they can then do what TonyKwoo was saying all along. Dictate the price. Just my own opinion.
This is one coin where the elites (big coin dealers) were caught behind the curve for the most part. How dare the "little people" get such a head start. Why, many of the coins were obtained directly fromt the mint and not from the elites with their usual mark up. Even more degrading for the elites is that they themselves had to purchase the coins from the "little people" in many cases (oh that hurts). The elites are disturbed by this and therefore the coin will be trashed....at least until the elites have a good percentage of them then all of a sudden they will be a great coin to have.
<< <i>
<< <i>You should go back to post 1 of this thread and read it from the beginning. Most of YOUR observations have been discussed in detail about a month and a half ago. You sound like a posting parrot.
Well, jessewvu, thank you so much for deep comments, pointing out my ignorance and comparing me to a bird.
A bit bitter, are we?
Bitter? Not really. This is what my mom did to me as a child
I'm just saying you should take a look at the past 3500 posts that were made prior to your enterence here. Everything you could possibly want to know has probably already been discussed here in detail.