<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07??? >>
What TonyWKoo suggested was that dealers/flippers who have hoards of this coin should somehow conspire to limit the release of these coins more slowly into the marketplace, hence maintaining current pricing levels. That is a SCAM! If seller "A" has 100 of these, and decides to sell 5 at a time till they are gone, thats free enterprise. But if seller "B" comes along and tells seller "A" to sell 1 at a time and he will do likewise, thats market manipulation, conspiracy to artificially evelvate prices, and is a scam. Not illegal at all, but still a scam by my definition.
<< <i>Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in! >>
It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin. >>
it's not unusual for people to poo-poo something they don't own themselves.. "oh it's worthless, oh you're a fool.. now THIS thing i own is REALLY valuable blah blah etc. etc.".. hey, buy what you enjoy and what you can afford.. but going around unclogging your nose on something else from which many people are getting enjoyment and are intensely interested in is a philosophy i don't subscribe to..
only time will tell who was right and who was wrong about the 08/07 ASE.. it's starting to get a LOT of press attention.. it's showing up in more and more dealer ads.. their buy prices are going up.. they're selling for moon money on teevee..
those who got them for $25.95 a pop from the Mint just got really lucky.. the window wasn't open very long.. would someone have noticed something odd about it if John "you suck" Nanney hadn't?.. probably, eventually.. are their bunches lurking in collections of unaware people?.. probably.. did the Mint actually make 47,000 of them?.. who knows.. that's what their spokesman said.. he's also said a lot of other things that turned out to be pure fabrication.. (trying desperartely to stay away from politics, i won't even get into what other gubmint spokespeople said that turned out to be nothing but happy horse
did the alleged 47,000 if there were 47,000 all escape Memphis?.. who knows.. no one knows.. yet.. i don't think so, and i don't think i'm alone in not thinking so..
oh by the way, the mailman just handed me a Priority mail envelope containing the free 2009 Red book from NACT (i mentioned their emailed offer, pushed out through NN's newsletter, which was open to the first 100 responders here a couple of days ago.. they're all gone so don't bother..).. brand new copy.. sprial-bound, $14.95 retail price on the back cover (which is what you'd pay in any bookstore).. they paid $6.55 Postage to send it.. came with some of their literature, and the number of solicitation emails and phone calls i've gotten from them has been exactly.. hmm.. let me count.. this could take a while.. {{counting}}.. Zero.. about two weeks ago, an outfit called "Wizard Coin Supply" pushed out an ad through NN for the same book at 40% off the cover price.. when i clicked through to their Web site to order one, they wanted $12.50 shipping.. i had a few words with them..
now back to your food fight which is already in progress..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I don't think you can compare a limited mintage first variety ASE with godless Dollars or wisconsin quarters. Most people don't even know there are new dollars, let alone godless ones, and quarters, well, they're quarters.
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07??? >>
i bought two shares of Disney in the mid-1970s for about $30.00 a share.. it split, then split again.. so i had eight shares.. my $60.00 investment was then worth about $480.00.. being a college student, i needed the money, so i sold them.. had i kept the stock until today, i'd be sitting on over $50,000.00 worth.. since it's split something like two dozen times since the 1970s.. hey, who knew?.. want me to name about a hundred other things i've sold too soon because i needed the money at the time?.. nah.. some have gone down in value, some have gone ballistic.. i wish i had back some of the stuff i sold ten years ago on eBay..
anyway, instead of arguing about market manipulation on these ASEs, we outta be DOING something about the market manipulation of crude oil that's gonna push a gallon of regular over $5.00 by the Fourth of July.. now THAT is affecting MILLIONS, if not a couple billion people world-wide.. not just a few thousand coin collectors.. but what to do?.. ya say ya want a revolution..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>I don't think you can compare a limited mintage first variety ASE with godless Dollars or wisconsin quarters. Most people don't even know there are new dollars, let alone godless ones, and quarters, well, they're quarters. >>
Thats a very foolish statement. If you think there are more ASE collectors in this world than state quarter collectors, you are sadly mistaken. Also, someone please correct me, but the latest tally of Wisconsin errors is in the 10-15k range in numbers. Thats about 400-500% more "rare" than this new ASE! And prices on those things came tumbling down in a HURRY! Speculate all you want, thats fine. But I have much more respect for the guy out there who has been collecting ASE coins for awhile, and needs one of these overhyped "varieties" for his COLLECTION, rather than the flipper who has no regard for the coin itself, but only the profits it can bring him. Face it, for 90% or more of the people "intersted" in this coin, its simply a big money grab and has little to do with actual collecting.
<< <i>I don't think you can compare a limited mintage first variety ASE with godless Dollars or wisconsin quarters. Most people don't even know there are new dollars, let alone godless ones, and quarters, well, they're quarters. >>
Thats a very foolish statement. If you think there are more ASE collectors in this world than state quarter collectors, you are sadly mistaken. Also, someone please correct me, but the latest tally of Wisconsin errors is in the 10-15k range in numbers. Thats about 400-500% more "rare" than this new ASE! And prices on those things came tumbling down in a HURRY! Speculate all you want, thats fine. But I have much more respect for the guy out there who has been collecting ASE coins for awhile, and needs one of these overhyped "varieties" for his COLLECTION, rather than the flipper who has no regard for the coin itself, but only the profits it can bring him. Face it, for 90% or more of the people "intersted" in this coin, its simply a big money grab and has little to do with actual collecting. >>
A foolish statement? OK, but you're the one comparing godless dollars to ASE's, you're just being silly, and if you think the millions of mom and pops that collect state quarters know anything about wisconsin then you are sadly mistaken. And apparently you're an anit-flipite as well, I'm sure if you go to a coin dealer and sing the song about how you want one for your collection that they will give you a 50% discount, as they are not in the biz for profit.
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07??? >>
i bought two shares of Disney in the mid-1970s for about $30.00 a share.. it split, then split again.. so i had eight shares.. my $60.00 investment was then worth about $480.00.. being a college student, i needed the money, so i sold them.. had i kept the stock until today, i'd be sitting on over $50,000.00 worth.. since it's split something like two dozen times since the 1970s.. hey, who knew?.. want me to name about a hundred other things i've sold too soon because i needed the money at the time?.. nah.. some have gone down in value, some have gone ballistic.. i wish i had back some of the stuff i sold ten years ago on eBay..
anyway, instead of arguing about market manipulation on these ASEs, we outta be DOING something about the market manipulation of crude oil that's gonna push a gallon of regular over $5.00 by the Fourth of July.. now THAT is affecting MILLIONS, if not a couple billion people world-wide.. not just a few thousand coin collectors.. but what to do?.. ya say ya want a revolution.. >>
I sold a black and white tv and go figure I was call a damn racist.
Remember YNs read these posts. If people want to battle out their thoughts/opinions, take it to the PM, we don't want or need to hear it here. Back and fourth battling between two individuals trying to determine who is right is not only bad form here on the boards, it leads to things that sometimes you can't take back and comments that YNs shouldn't be reading.
I purchased a total of five 2008-W ASE's direct from the US Mint, 3 08/08 2 07/08 I've followed this thread right from the very beginning,( THANKS John and you still SUCK) and decided to place a second order from the USM, and received the 2 07/08. I have read of people making alot of money from them, I really don't care what they are worth as I purchased them for my ASE collection. I will say this, had I not received them from USM @ $25.95 ea. I would not pay the current prices for an example. To all of those who have made money, my hat is off to you... From one Chicago guy to another, take it easy, its's not that important.
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Here's something my econ professor told us once (I'd take this with a grain of salt since he's also the one who said that monopolies and cartels can't exist).
He said that a car manufacturer let these testers drive their new car. They thought was ag ood car. After they were done, the manufacturer quoted them a very low price. Asked if they'd buy it, they said no.
OK, same car, different group of testers. These people were quoted a much higher price. Many more of them said yes.
TonyWKoo, You are new to the boards and seem to be off to a terrible start. I think you should stop posting your nonsense to this thread and take a chill pill. It appears to me that you are adding absolutely nothing to this thread. Perhaps you should read the rules about posting and wait to post until you have something to contribute to these boards. Also, turn on your private message so we can PM you.
Edited to add: This post is #3667, your last post was #3666, I think that might be telling us something
Here's something my econ professor told us once (I'd take this with a grain of salt since he's also the one who said that monopolies and cartels can't exist).
He said that a car manufacturer let these testers drive their new car. They thought was ag ood car. After they were done, the manufacturer quoted them a very low price. Asked if they'd buy it, they said no.
OK, same car, different group of testers. These people were quoted a much higher price. Many more of them said yes. >>
Dang, before I started frequenting coin forums, I never realized that collectors were sooooo argumentative!
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
I don't know you but I have to agree after reading your replies to this thread it seems that you are just trying to get a rise out of someone. I don't know why nor care. These people on this board are very intelligent and like a good conversation with good information.
Last error sold for $501 on the bay. Its pretty much up to pcgs and others whether or not to add this to the registry. Any new news on that guys.
I don't know you but I have to agree after reading your replies to this thread it seems that you are just trying to get a rise out of someone. I don't know why nor care. These people on this board are very intelligent and like a good conversation with good information.
Last error sold for $501 on the bay. Its pretty much up to pcgs and others whether or not to add this to the registry. Any new news on that guys. >>
Anything is possible with PCGS and the registries. I suppose if enough folks indicate they want it in the set then PCGS may consider it. But consider this, this coin is the ONLY SAE variety (or error if you prefer) that exists over the entire series. One of anything that is in limited quantities may keep it out of the registry.
But then again, the 1964 SMS Kennedy is in that Complete Variety Set.
The 1971-S RPM 40% Silver Ike is in THAT Complete Varieties set (PCGS hasn't even graded any)
So at this point its anybodies guess.
As for the coin to continue to rise in value, I think this is totally dependent upoin the interest that the buying public has in it. Once the interest drops, then the prices should follow. The only question that remains is what will it fall too? Supply is totally dictated by how easy these are to obtain. Right now, they are relatively easy if you got the cash! If everybody is selling and nobody is buying, guess what, the price goes down.
I have three raw coins (at $25.95 each) and 1 MS69 Graded First Strike™ (at $200) which I can afford to hold onto to see exactly where the prices end up. I sold 6 early on and kinda wish I had waited a week or two but I certainly ain't gonna kick myself because of it!
Arguing the value, either long term or short term, is kinda pointless since, as with anything in this hobby, it's all very unpredictable. Having said that, I can also say that I would never, ever advise someone to get in to these at this stage of the game as an "investment". It is far to risky.
This coin, the 08/07, is certainly an interesting addition to the SAE collector!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I was never trying to get a rise out of anyone. All I was doing was trying to figure out why they're so angry at this coin. And I was just trying to share what I learned in college about economics (that was my major after all).
As for controlling supply, demand, and pricing, businesses have been trying to do that for thousands of years already. But I guess that as individual owners, we really don't have any real impact on this market.
OOOOOH, one spends too much time working for a couple days and my favorite thread is hijacked by a newb
So anyway, on the topic of the variety issue and set registries, etc....I don't think it makes a huge deal in the value of the coin if IT IS NEEDED for the set registry. Check the current PCGS registry stats:
Add up all the different silver eagle sets that could include the 08/07W and it still it less than 1000.
Not sure how many are ATS, but if there's say 25-30K of these ultimately available, do a couple thousand registry sets make a difference? I'm not sure. Thoughts please.
Edited: I wouldn't be surprised if many of the registry collectors got one of these right away, or at least by now.
<< <i>I was never trying to get a rise out of anyone. All I was doing was trying to figure out why they're so angry at this coin. And I was just trying to share what I learned in college about economics (that was my major after all).
As for controlling supply, demand, and pricing, businesses have been trying to do that for thousands of years already. But I guess that as individual owners, we really don't have any real impact on this market. >>
Gecko just gets angry about a lot of stuff.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock, coin and real estate speculation. It's bullshrit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.
The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock, coin and real estate speculation. It's bullshrit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you. >>
I havent seen Wallstreet in quite awhile, but this paragraph sounds alot like something Gordon Gecko would say to Charlie Sheen. If this is NOT a quote or paraphrase from that movie, and indeed is an original thought, BRAVO! Well done! I like your style.
P.S.- To clarify one final time. I dont hate the coin. Im not angry with the coin. I just dont believe in the hype machine that is a result of this coin.
Well, what a great gift this release from the Mint has been, to those who got the coin in their orders.
And what a bigger gift this Forum has been, for freely sharing information, and making it possible for so many of us average Joe's to have some success with the rev 07. Even if those who didn't get one direct from the Mint, but picked up on what was being said in the forum, are glad they bought on the secondary market, in a wide range of prices.
Moki's post exemplifies how the general sharing on the boards led to countless benefits: he clued in his co-worker, his co-worker made a small fortune, Moki got a windfall too, and everyone was edified by the integrity of Moki's example.
Really, though! I just gotta' say Thanks, in concert with everyone else who's said it, because without being part of this forum, I would have missed out on a hard-to-get Eagle for my collection, a once-in-a-lifetime business opportunity, and the fun of it all.
By the way, TonyWKoo, welcome to the boards! Stick around -- the forum's a big tent!
I think a couple of the guys flaming back at you are over-acting, but keep in mind that one of the reasons this thread is so successful is that so many people have been consistently cooperative. In fact, in a way members HAVE been doing what you suggest: colluding for our collective benefit. While you made sense in clear economic terms, cooperating to drive prices UP would keep these collector pieces out of the hands of more collectors like us.
What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you...
<< <i>What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you... >>
396411 2008-W $1 Reverse of 2007 Eagle MS MS68---- 7, MS69----512, MS70----37, TOTAL-----556
<< <i>What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you... >>
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>By the way, TonyKWoo, welcome to the boards! Stick around -- the forum's a big tent! >>
<< <i>I think a couple of the guys flaming back at you are over-acting, >>
It happens a lot. If you stick around, you may be flamed for something only to see the flamer(s) doing the same thing at a later day. Funny thing is, it acceptable for them.
Like tychojoe said, "the forum's a big tent!" He just forgot to mention it has red and white stripes and full of exotic animals!
Thanks for the warm welcome tychojoe. Maybe I should have phrased things differently.
What I meant to say is that there's nothing wrong with sharing our enthusiasm for this coin with others. I think that this coin is actually undervalued at the price it is today, while others think it's over valued at the price it is today.
I think that the whole Silver Eagle series is great. The first one I got was the '86 ASE Uncirculated. My aunt gave it to me when I was still in high school. I've always like that coin, but I didn't actually start collecting coins until just recently. Now, because of this '08 Rev '07, I was so interested in this coin that I just bought the entire unc series from 06-08 with all of them NC69 (except for '08)! And after that, I'll probably start with the burnished and proofs as well.
I think this is a wonderful coin. It's well designed (I think it's just a really good looking coin), it's made of silver, it's affordable, and you'd be supporting the America by purchasing it. I think that whoever loves America will also love the American Silver Eagle. (IMHO)
<< <i>What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you... >>
>>
Hmmm... The last values I had for what I thought was PCGS coin #393057 were these: MS66: 2, MS67: 46, MS68: 112, MS69: 23,378, MS70: 3,056 (total 26,694)
The numbers you posted for 393057 exactly duplicated those shown for 393058. Could that be a typo?
<< <i>Thanks for the warm welcome tychojoe. Maybe I should have phrased things differently.
What I meant to say is that there's nothing wrong with sharing our enthusiasm for this coin with others. I think that this coin is actually undervalued at the price it is today, while others think it's over valued at the price it is today.
I think that the whole Silver Eagle series is great. The first one I got was the '86 ASE Uncirculated. My aunt gave it to me when I was still in high school. I've always like that coin, but I didn't actually start collecting coins until just recently. Now, because of this '08 Rev '07, I was so interested in this coin that I just bought the entire unc series from 06-08 with all of them NC69 (except for '08)! And after that, I'll probably start with the burnished and proofs as well.
I think this is a wonderful coin. It's well designed (I think it's just a really good looking coin), it's made of silver, it's affordable, and you'd be supporting the America by purchasing it. I think that whoever loves America will also love the American Silver Eagle. (IMHO)
EDIT: Wow, no response? >>
This is such a cool post. I hope those who cannot stand moderns might read and absorb what you put so beautifully.
<< <i>This is such a cool post. I hope those who cannot stand moderns might read and absorb what you put so beautifully. >>
Thanks for your kind words TwoSides2aCoin... but I think I might have overshot a little bit. All I was doing was expressing my appreciation for the coin, that's all. But thanks though.
<< <i>anyone interested in another daily dump? It takes me about 30 minutes to get it all done. >>
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
What that SHOULD give us, I know there are outliers, are the trends for all of the 2008 ASEs with the Reverse of the 2007 ASE. I have also captured other charts to show Raw coins, PCGS graded coins, and NGC graded coins. Read the bold print above the charts for clarification, they are pretty self explanitory.
As I have stated before, this dump DOES NOT include auctions ending past 10:00PM EDT today, so if there are a large number of auctions ending tonight, the #'s are going to be different. To get the most accurate trends, do not include today.
Here goes!
If not all the pics show up, right click on the blank picture and then click SHOW PICTURE.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07??? >>
What TonyWKoo suggested was that dealers/flippers who have hoards of this coin should somehow conspire to limit the release of these coins more slowly into the marketplace, hence maintaining current pricing levels. That is a SCAM! If seller "A" has 100 of these, and decides to sell 5 at a time till they are gone, thats free enterprise. But if seller "B" comes along and tells seller "A" to sell 1 at a time and he will do likewise, thats market manipulation, conspiracy to artificially evelvate prices, and is a scam. Not illegal at all, but still a scam by my definition.
<< <i>
<< <i>Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in!
It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin.
it's not unusual for people to poo-poo something they don't own themselves.. "oh it's worthless, oh you're a fool.. now THIS thing i own is REALLY valuable blah blah etc. etc.".. hey, buy what you enjoy and what you can afford.. but going around unclogging your nose on something else from which many people are getting enjoyment and are intensely interested in is a philosophy i don't subscribe to..
only time will tell who was right and who was wrong about the 08/07 ASE.. it's starting to get a LOT of press attention.. it's showing up in more and more dealer ads.. their buy prices are going up.. they're selling for moon money on teevee..
those who got them for $25.95 a pop from the Mint just got really lucky.. the window wasn't open very long.. would someone have noticed something odd about it if John "you suck" Nanney hadn't?.. probably, eventually.. are their bunches lurking in collections of unaware people?.. probably.. did the Mint actually make 47,000 of them?.. who knows.. that's what their spokesman said.. he's also said a lot of other things that turned out to be pure fabrication.. (trying desperartely to stay away from politics, i won't even get into what other gubmint spokespeople said that turned out to be nothing but happy horse
did the alleged 47,000 if there were 47,000 all escape Memphis?.. who knows.. no one knows.. yet.. i don't think so, and i don't think i'm alone in not thinking so..
oh by the way, the mailman just handed me a Priority mail envelope containing the free 2009 Red book from NACT (i mentioned their emailed offer, pushed out through NN's newsletter, which was open to the first 100 responders here a couple of days ago.. they're all gone so don't bother..).. brand new copy.. sprial-bound, $14.95 retail price on the back cover (which is what you'd pay in any bookstore).. they paid $6.55 Postage to send it.. came with some of their literature, and the number of solicitation emails and phone calls i've gotten from them has been exactly.. hmm.. let me count.. this could take a while.. {{counting}}.. Zero.. about two weeks ago, an outfit called "Wizard Coin Supply" pushed out an ad through NN for the same book at 40% off the cover price.. when i clicked through to their Web site to order one, they wanted $12.50 shipping.. i had a few words with them..
now back to your food fight which is already in progress..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>now back to your food fight which is already in progress.. >>
I'm going out to play golf.....Let me know how it ends.
<< <i>
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07??? >>
i bought two shares of Disney in the mid-1970s for about $30.00 a share.. it split, then split again.. so i had eight shares.. my $60.00 investment was then worth about $480.00.. being a college student, i needed the money, so i sold them.. had i kept the stock until today, i'd be sitting on over $50,000.00 worth.. since it's split something like two dozen times since the 1970s.. hey, who knew?.. want me to name about a hundred other things i've sold too soon because i needed the money at the time?.. nah.. some have gone down in value, some have gone ballistic.. i wish i had back some of the stuff i sold ten years ago on eBay..
anyway, instead of arguing about market manipulation on these ASEs, we outta be DOING something about the market manipulation of crude oil that's gonna push a gallon of regular over $5.00 by the Fourth of July.. now THAT is affecting MILLIONS, if not a couple billion people world-wide.. not just a few thousand coin collectors.. but what to do?..
ya say ya want a revolution..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>I don't think you can compare a limited mintage first variety ASE with godless Dollars or wisconsin quarters. Most people don't even know there are new dollars, let alone godless ones, and quarters, well, they're quarters. >>
Thats a very foolish statement. If you think there are more ASE collectors in this world than state quarter collectors, you are sadly mistaken. Also, someone please correct me, but the latest tally of Wisconsin errors is in the 10-15k range in numbers. Thats about 400-500% more "rare" than this new ASE! And prices on those things came tumbling down in a HURRY! Speculate all you want, thats fine. But I have much more respect for the guy out there who has been collecting ASE coins for awhile, and needs one of these overhyped "varieties" for his COLLECTION, rather than the flipper who has no regard for the coin itself, but only the profits it can bring him. Face it, for 90% or more of the people "intersted" in this coin, its simply a big money grab and has little to do with actual collecting.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think you can compare a limited mintage first variety ASE with godless Dollars or wisconsin quarters. Most people don't even know there are new dollars, let alone godless ones, and quarters, well, they're quarters. >>
Thats a very foolish statement. If you think there are more ASE collectors in this world than state quarter collectors, you are sadly mistaken. Also, someone please correct me, but the latest tally of Wisconsin errors is in the 10-15k range in numbers. Thats about 400-500% more "rare" than this new ASE! And prices on those things came tumbling down in a HURRY! Speculate all you want, thats fine. But I have much more respect for the guy out there who has been collecting ASE coins for awhile, and needs one of these overhyped "varieties" for his COLLECTION, rather than the flipper who has no regard for the coin itself, but only the profits it can bring him. Face it, for 90% or more of the people "intersted" in this coin, its simply a big money grab and has little to do with actual collecting. >>
A foolish statement? OK, but you're the one comparing godless dollars to ASE's, you're just being silly, and if you think the millions of mom and pops that collect state quarters know anything about wisconsin then you are sadly mistaken. And apparently you're an anit-flipite as well, I'm sure if you go to a coin dealer and sing the song about how you want one for your collection that they will give you a 50% discount, as they are not in the biz for profit.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07??? >>
i bought two shares of Disney in the mid-1970s for about $30.00 a share.. it split, then split again.. so i had eight shares.. my $60.00 investment was then worth about $480.00.. being a college student, i needed the money, so i sold them.. had i kept the stock until today, i'd be sitting on over $50,000.00 worth.. since it's split something like two dozen times since the 1970s.. hey, who knew?.. want me to name about a hundred other things i've sold too soon because i needed the money at the time?.. nah.. some have gone down in value, some have gone ballistic.. i wish i had back some of the stuff i sold ten years ago on eBay..
anyway, instead of arguing about market manipulation on these ASEs, we outta be DOING something about the market manipulation of crude oil that's gonna push a gallon of regular over $5.00 by the Fourth of July.. now THAT is affecting MILLIONS, if not a couple billion people world-wide.. not just a few thousand coin collectors.. but what to do?..
ya say ya want a revolution.. >>
I sold a black and white tv and go figure I was call a damn racist.
Remember YNs read these posts. If people want to battle out their thoughts/opinions, take it to the PM, we don't want or need to hear it here. Back and fourth battling between two individuals trying to determine who is right is not only bad form here on the boards, it leads to things that sometimes you can't take back and comments that YNs shouldn't be reading.
3 08/08
2 07/08
I've followed this thread right from the very beginning,( THANKS John and you still SUCK) and decided to place a second order from the USM, and received the 2 07/08. I have read of people making alot of money from them, I really don't care what they are worth as I purchased them for my ASE collection. I will say this, had I not received them from USM @ $25.95 ea. I would not pay the current prices for an example.
To all of those who have made money, my hat is off to you...
From one Chicago guy to another, take it easy, its's not that important.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
<< <i>Not to beat a dead horse here, but why are people willing to pay thousands...tens of thousands of dollars to buy a 1995W Proof ASE? >>
Because they can...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Here's something my econ professor told us once (I'd take this with a grain of salt since he's also the one who said that monopolies and cartels can't exist).
He said that a car manufacturer let these testers drive their new car. They thought was ag ood car. After they were done, the manufacturer quoted them a very low price. Asked if they'd buy it, they said no.
OK, same car, different group of testers. These people were quoted a much higher price. Many more of them said yes.
You are new to the boards and seem to be off to a terrible start. I think you should stop posting your nonsense to this thread and take a chill pill. It appears to me that you are adding absolutely nothing to this thread. Perhaps you should read the rules about posting and wait to post until you have something to contribute to these boards. Also, turn on your private message so we can PM you.
Edited to add:
This post is #3667, your last post was #3666, I think that might be telling us something
<< <i>Maybe just good marketing.
Here's something my econ professor told us once (I'd take this with a grain of salt since he's also the one who said that monopolies and cartels can't exist).
He said that a car manufacturer let these testers drive their new car. They thought was ag ood car. After they were done, the manufacturer quoted them a very low price. Asked if they'd buy it, they said no.
OK, same car, different group of testers. These people were quoted a much higher price. Many more of them said yes. >>
Don't get it!!
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
I don't know you but I have to agree after reading your replies to this thread it seems that you are just trying to get a rise out of someone. I don't know why nor care. These people on this board are very intelligent and like a good conversation with good information.
Last error sold for $501 on the bay. Its pretty much up to pcgs and others whether or not to add this to the registry. Any new news on that guys.
<< <i>Tony
I don't know you but I have to agree after reading your replies to this thread it seems that you are just trying to get a rise out of someone. I don't know why nor care. These people on this board are very intelligent and like a good conversation with good information.
Last error sold for $501 on the bay. Its pretty much up to pcgs and others whether or not to add this to the registry. Any new news on that guys. >>
Anything is possible with PCGS and the registries. I suppose if enough folks indicate they want it in the set then PCGS may consider it. But consider this, this coin is the ONLY SAE variety (or error if you prefer) that exists over the entire series. One of anything that is in limited quantities may keep it out of the registry.
But then again, the 1964 SMS Kennedy is in that Complete Variety Set.
The 1971-S RPM 40% Silver Ike is in THAT Complete Varieties set (PCGS hasn't even graded any)
So at this point its anybodies guess.
As for the coin to continue to rise in value, I think this is totally dependent upoin the interest that the buying public has in it. Once the interest drops, then the prices should follow. The only question that remains is what will it fall too? Supply is totally dictated by how easy these are to obtain. Right now, they are relatively easy if you got the cash! If everybody is selling and nobody is buying, guess what, the price goes down.
I have three raw coins (at $25.95 each) and 1 MS69 Graded First Strike™ (at $200) which I can afford to hold onto to see exactly where the prices end up. I sold 6 early on and kinda wish I had waited a week or two but I certainly ain't gonna kick myself because of it!
Arguing the value, either long term or short term, is kinda pointless since, as with anything in this hobby, it's all very unpredictable. Having said that, I can also say that I would never, ever advise someone to get in to these at this stage of the game as an "investment". It is far to risky.
This coin, the 08/07, is certainly an interesting addition to the SAE collector!
The name is LEE!
As for controlling supply, demand, and pricing, businesses have been trying to do that for thousands of years already. But I guess that as individual owners, we really don't have any real impact on this market.
So anyway, on the topic of the variety issue and set registries, etc....I don't think it makes a huge deal in the value
of the coin if IT IS NEEDED for the set registry. Check the current PCGS registry stats:
Silver Eagle Registry Sets - PCGS
Add up all the different silver eagle sets that could include the 08/07W and it still it less than 1000.
Not sure how many are ATS, but if there's say 25-30K of these ultimately available, do a couple thousand registry sets
make a difference? I'm not sure. Thoughts please.
Edited: I wouldn't be surprised if many of the registry collectors got one of these right away, or at least by now.
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
<< <i>I was never trying to get a rise out of anyone. All I was doing was trying to figure out why they're so angry at this coin. And I was just trying to share what I learned in college about economics (that was my major after all).
As for controlling supply, demand, and pricing, businesses have been trying to do that for thousands of years already. But I guess that as individual owners, we really don't have any real impact on this market. >>
Gecko just gets angry about a lot of stuff.
The name is LEE!
EAT ME
reread what you posted.
No real what.
I understand we're no a corp here. but dude. This is capitalism. The very limited quantity that was produced makes this a marketable coin.
Yes there is maybe I say maybe 20k graded. Think economics which you majored in. This coin is part of a massive year series.
I dont really care whether it goes to the moon or down. I have mine. I will post my submission results from PCGS as soon as the details are released.
I am seller with coins this is just the gray area if you know what I mean.
The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock, coin and real estate speculation. It's bullshrit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.
-69 78/198 39.4%
-70 48/198 24.2
Other 72/198 36.4
10's of thousands maybe for a slabbed 70. Raw and 69 examples fetch anywhere from $3500-$5000.
Why do people bid big bucks at a car auction? 1968 Ford Mustang 500KR Shelby sold for $210k.
Why so much? Limited numbers, plus big demand, equals big bucks.
Collect want you want, collect how you want. To each is own.
I feel the 08/07 examples I have will rival the 95W, over time, IMHO.
<< <i>Gecko.....
The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock, coin and real estate speculation. It's bullshrit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you. >>
I havent seen Wallstreet in quite awhile, but this paragraph sounds alot like something Gordon Gecko would say to Charlie Sheen. If this is NOT a quote or paraphrase from that movie, and indeed is an original thought, BRAVO! Well done! I like your style.
P.S.- To clarify one final time. I dont hate the coin. Im not angry with the coin. I just dont believe in the hype machine that is a result of this coin.
And what a bigger gift this Forum has been, for freely sharing information, and making it possible for so many of us average Joe's to have some success with the rev 07. Even if those who didn't get one direct from the Mint, but picked up on what was being said in the forum, are glad they bought on the secondary market, in a wide range of prices.
Moki's post exemplifies how the general sharing on the boards led to countless benefits: he clued in his co-worker, his co-worker made a small fortune, Moki got a windfall too, and everyone was edified by the integrity of Moki's example.
Really, though! I just gotta' say Thanks, in concert with everyone else who's said it, because without being part of this forum, I would have missed out on a hard-to-get Eagle for my collection, a once-in-a-lifetime business opportunity, and the fun of it all.
By the way, TonyWKoo, welcome to the boards! Stick around -- the forum's a big tent!
I think a couple of the guys flaming back at you are over-acting, but keep in mind that one of the reasons this thread is so successful is that so many people have been consistently cooperative. In fact, in a way members HAVE been doing what you suggest: colluding for our collective benefit. While you made sense in clear economic terms, cooperating to drive prices UP would keep these collector pieces out of the hands of more collectors like us.
[edited to fix Tony's name
<< <i>What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you...
396411 2008-W $1 Reverse of 2007 Eagle MS MS68---- 7, MS69----512, MS70----37, TOTAL-----556
<< <i>What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you...
The name is LEE!
<< <i>By the way, TonyKWoo, welcome to the boards! Stick around -- the forum's a big tent! >>
<< <i>I think a couple of the guys flaming back at you are over-acting, >>
It happens a lot. If you stick around, you may be flamed for something only to see the flamer(s) doing the same thing at a later day. Funny thing is, it acceptable for them.
Like tychojoe said, "the forum's a big tent!" He just forgot to mention it has red and white stripes and full of exotic animals!
What I meant to say is that there's nothing wrong with sharing our enthusiasm for this coin with others. I think that this coin is actually undervalued at the price it is today, while others think it's over valued at the price it is today.
I think that the whole Silver Eagle series is great. The first one I got was the '86 ASE Uncirculated. My aunt gave it to me when I was still in high school. I've always like that coin, but I didn't actually start collecting coins until just recently. Now, because of this '08 Rev '07, I was so interested in this coin that I just bought the entire unc series from 06-08 with all of them NC69 (except for '08)! And after that, I'll probably start with the burnished and proofs as well.
I think this is a wonderful coin. It's well designed (I think it's just a really good looking coin), it's made of silver, it's affordable, and you'd be supporting the America by purchasing it. I think that whoever loves America will also love the American Silver Eagle. (IMHO)
EDIT: Wow, no response?
<< <i>
<< <i>What is the PGCS coin number for the 2008 W (burnished) that is NOT a first strike? Would someone post (or PM) that coin's pops by MS grade? Thank you...
Hmmm... The last values I had for what I thought was PCGS coin #393057 were these: MS66: 2, MS67: 46, MS68: 112, MS69: 23,378, MS70: 3,056 (total 26,694)
The numbers you posted for 393057 exactly duplicated those shown for 393058. Could that be a typo?
<< <i>Thanks for the warm welcome tychojoe. Maybe I should have phrased things differently.
What I meant to say is that there's nothing wrong with sharing our enthusiasm for this coin with others. I think that this coin is actually undervalued at the price it is today, while others think it's over valued at the price it is today.
I think that the whole Silver Eagle series is great. The first one I got was the '86 ASE Uncirculated. My aunt gave it to me when I was still in high school. I've always like that coin, but I didn't actually start collecting coins until just recently. Now, because of this '08 Rev '07, I was so interested in this coin that I just bought the entire unc series from 06-08 with all of them NC69 (except for '08)! And after that, I'll probably start with the burnished and proofs as well.
I think this is a wonderful coin. It's well designed (I think it's just a really good looking coin), it's made of silver, it's affordable, and you'd be supporting the America by purchasing it. I think that whoever loves America will also love the American Silver Eagle. (IMHO)
EDIT: Wow, no response? >>
This is such a cool post. I hope those who cannot stand moderns might read and absorb what you put so beautifully.
<< <i>This is such a cool post. I hope those who cannot stand moderns might read and absorb what you put so beautifully. >>
Thanks for your kind words TwoSides2aCoin... but I think I might have overshot a little bit. All I was doing was expressing my appreciation for the coin, that's all. But thanks though.
<< <i>Please, don't make me angry....You wouldn't like it when I'm angry.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>anyone interested in another daily dump? It takes me about 30 minutes to get it all done. >>
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Ok Folks, here is the latest dump!
Below you will find 2 week history charts for ALL hits on:
"2007 reverse 2008"
"2007 reverse 2008" (1 month period)
"2007 reverse 2008 NGC"
"2007 reverse 2008 PCGS"
"2007 reverse 2008 NGC MS69"
"2007 reverse 2008 PCGS MS69"
"2007 reverse 2008 NGC MS70"
"2007 reverse 2008 PCGS MS70"
"2007 reverse 2008 NGC MS69"
"2007 reverse 2008 -PCGS -NGC"
What that SHOULD give us, I know there are outliers, are the trends for all of the 2008 ASEs with the Reverse of the 2007 ASE. I have also captured other charts to show Raw coins, PCGS graded coins, and NGC graded coins. Read the bold print above the charts for clarification, they are pretty self explanitory.
As I have stated before, this dump DOES NOT include auctions ending past 10:00PM EDT today, so if there are a large number of auctions ending tonight, the #'s are going to be different. To get the most accurate trends, do not include today.
Here goes!
If not all the pics show up, right click on the blank picture and then click SHOW PICTURE.
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Past 2 weeks, graded and raw
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Past 1 month, graded and raw
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All NGC graded coins
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All PCGS graded coins
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All raw coins
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NGC MS69
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PCGS MS69
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NCG MS70
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PCGS MS70