<< <i>I'm confident that a lot of people have these coins but don't know it.
Last Friday I overheard a co-worker taliking about investing in silver. He mentioned that he had recently purchased 50 2008 w UNC ASEs. I told him about the errors. He had neve heard of them before. He checked, found 28 of 50 to be '08 w/rev of '07. I explained the TPGs to him, etc. I took him to the Balto. show with me so that he could join PCGS and submit the coins. Instead, he gave one to me as a token of his appreciation for telling him about them, kept 4 and sold the rest raw to a dealer for $500/each.
Had I not told him of this he never would have known. Like many buyers of these coins, he looked at them simply as bullion and does not otherwise follow coins. >>
Fun story and discovery . . . also is a nice commentary on your integrity.
They briefly made reference to the discovery of this as... some guy in Ohio saying hey look at this..........................
Why . . .
Why . . .
They think I'm a Yankee huh.
I ought to just go there and show them how yankee this old southern redneck is!
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>08/07 rev-anacs with a 08/08 sold as SP70 (2 coin set) 24 of them sold last night on tv for $1900.00 >>
Remember though, these are the same folks that pay ungodly amounts for gold and silver plated state quarters which the forum likes to rail on about!
I would not lay any thought at all with regard to what HSN is selling these for since HSN follows the principle af marking inventory up by 100% and a few more percentage points for good measure.
If you think that these will sell for more than $1,900 in the future, I think you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Just like any collectible, once the market gets saturated and folks lose interest (i.e. another popular item rolls along) the prices will come down considerably. The folks that bought these slabs as an investment might just as well have invested in mortgage banking and we all know what happened there.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Here is your chance to let PCGS know how you feel regarding where the price of the 2008/2007 reverse ASE will go from here. (I voted will go up ) >>
I voted it will go down. Seems like there are too many to sustain the prices. My bet is many who bought recently will try to sell in the next year or so.
<< <i>08/07 rev-anacs with a 08/08 sold as SP70 (2 coin set) 24 of them sold last night on tv for $1900.00 >>
Remember though, these are the same folks that pay ungodly amounts for gold and silver plated state quarters which the forum likes to rail on about!
I would not lay any thought at all with regard to what HSN is selling these for since HSN follows the principle af marking inventory up by 100% and a few more percentage points for good measure.
If you think that these will sell for more than $1,900 in the future, I think you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Just like any collectible, once the market gets saturated and folks lose interest (i.e. another popular item rolls along) the prices will come down considerably. The folks that bought these slabs as an investment might just as well have invested in mortgage banking and we all know what happened there. >>
Oh, like the 1995-W proof. Yeh, I get it. You can get that for just a little over melt right? I mean that is a 13 year old coin. No interest there.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I voted that it'll go up. But I think that the vast majority of people are going to say that it'll go down, and here's my reasoning:
People that have it will almost always say that it'll go up (unless they're just about ready to sell).
People that don't have it will almost always say that it'll go down (unless they're just about ready to buy).
Like anything, the value of these coins are going to be based on supply and demand. We already have a rough estimate of the supply...now it's just a matter of whether the vast majority of the public is going to be convinced as to how desirable these coins are. Advertising, marketing, word of mouth, publications, etc will all contribute (or not contribute) to the demand of these coins. So...maybe what we should do is to try our best to get more people to get interested and excited about this coin.
And as for the nay sayers, all I've got to say is this:
...ewww....bleh....Lord...these grapes sure are sour!!!
Oh, like the 1995-W proof. Yeh, I get it. You can get that for just a little over melt right? I mean that is a 13 year old coin. No interest there. >>
One key point to this arguement is that the only way to obtain the 1995 W Silver Eagle was to buy the complete GOLD set. Let's consider this for a moment. Only 31,000 + sets were sold and they were not cheap.
Do we really know how many bullion pieces were struck, and how much residual interest will remain in 13 yrs for this one ? Just ponderances on collecting, not predictions on precious metals.
However, if anyone feels generous, I'd be happy to trade some 90% coin for one raw '08 w/'07 rev ASE ... It would be just right for my 7070
<< <i>One key point to this arguement is that the only way to obtain the 1995 W Silver Eagle was to buy the complete GOLD set. Let's consider this for a moment. Only 31,000 + sets were sold and they were not cheap. >>
I think that what you're saying is that because the 1995 w ASE proof was sold with the Gold set, then people are going to instinctly believe that it's worth more because of its association with the Gold. Well, that could be true. It's difficult to understand the psychology of how people attribute value to something.
In all honesty, it's really not that hard to drive up prices. All the sellers need to reduce supply (ration and slow down selling), and more people have to know about this coin. HSN, Coin World, Coast to Coast Coins, etc...the more coverage this coin gets, the better. But let's just say...there are only 50 coins being sold on ebay at any given time...it should drive up the prices significantly. Then...sellers could trickle the supply over time (long term) and all the sellers should win out. But there has to be discipline enough to hold back selling and wait (for the long term). I think this is what a lot of industries do (oil, diamonds, stocks are just a few I can think of).
Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
<< <i>Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
>>
Face the facts! This is a COMMON coin at best! The people who are cashing in right now at $400-$500 per coin would be smart to sell as many, as quickly as possible. The mere fact that some of you are discussing the possibility of orchestrating a seller "slowdown" is proof that this coin is not the rarity you all thought it was. If you truly believe the coin has staying power, you would all be buyers at current pricing. The truth is however, 90% or more of you are simply flippers who want to unload these to the highest biddiots! If I had 200-300 of these coins in my inventory, they would all be sold by the end of the week. This coin is a SCAM!
Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea to contact various coin collecting publications and ask them to mention this coin. (red book, grey sheet, Numismatic News , Coins Magazine, whatever). Get them to drum up demand. The more people get aware, the more money will go into this coin. Maybe call your local coin dealers too, and ask them about it...maybe mention them at coin shows too...
<< <i>Face the facts! This is a COMMON coin at best! The people who are cashing in right now at $400-$500 per coin would be smart to sell as many, as quickly as possible. The mere fact that some of you are discussing the possibility of orchestrating a seller "slowdown" is proof that this coin is not the rarity you all thought it was. If you truly believe the coin has staying power, you would all be buyers at current pricing. The truth is however, 90% or more of you are simply flippers who want to unload these to the highest biddiots! If I had 200-300 of these coins in my inventory, they would all be sold by the end of the week. This coin is a SCAM! >>
Yeah...then in that case, this entire industry is a scam. Who in their right minds would spend tens...hundreds of thousands of dollars for a cheap round piece of low grade metal? People buy it because they want to buy it. If you want to call that a scam, well, that's your right to do so.
Supply and demand, that's the only thing that matters. Increase demand and reduce supply. Like I said, this gets done in so many different industries already. It's business.
Oh, and I'd wager to say that you don't have a single one of these coins. Am I right?
<< <i>Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
>>
Yes comrade, how dare these capitalists sell the coins they own. They should be forced to hold their inventory for your benefit.
<< <i>Yes comrade, how dare these capitalists sell the coins they own. They should be forced to hold their inventory for your benefit. >>
you don't seem to understand anything about economics. this is a classic example of a totally free market vs a cartel. in a cartel, because you can control prices, everyone can win more, in the long run. in a totally free market, everyone wins less.
if you know anything about game theory, you'll know that over time, competitors realize that it's better to work together and cooperate with each other in order to achieve the maximum amout of gain.
this has nothing to do with helping me. it has to do with helping every seller's interest.
<< <i>Face the facts! This is a COMMON coin at best! The people who are cashing in right now at $400-$500 per coin would be smart to sell as many, as quickly as possible. The mere fact that some of you are discussing the possibility of orchestrating a seller "slowdown" is proof that this coin is not the rarity you all thought it was. If you truly believe the coin has staying power, you would all be buyers at current pricing. The truth is however, 90% or more of you are simply flippers who want to unload these to the highest biddiots! If I had 200-300 of these coins in my inventory, they would all be sold by the end of the week. This coin is a SCAM! >>
Yeah...then in that case, this entire industry is a scam. Who in their right minds would spend tens...hundreds of thousands of dollars for a cheap round piece of low grade metal? People buy it because they want to buy it. If you want to call that a scam, well, that's your right to do so.
Supply and demand, that's the only thing that matters. Increase demand and reduce supply. Like I said, this gets done in so many different industries already. It's business.
Oh, and I'd wager to say that you don't have a single one of these coins. Am I right? >>
Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in!
<< <i>Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in! >>
It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin.
<< <i>Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in! >>
It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin. >>
Well if you bought at $150, you MUST feel fairly stupid as MANY of the flippers of these coins bought theirs at about $30 directly from the mint. Furthermore, I just forked over $200 for this coin 3 weeks ago. It graded PCGS PR69DCAM. Do a little research (hint: ebay) and come back and tell me how I did.
You keep buying "speculator" coins and pray you dont get caught holding heavy on the downturn. I'll keep buying TRUE rarities like this panda, and I dont have to worry about some capitalist flooding the market. Heck, I think PCGS has graded fewer than 20 TOTAL examples of my coin. How many 08 reverse 07's have they graded so far kid?
<< <i>Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
>>
If they are selling it in bulk it is because they have them in bulk..............it is a commodity. Live with it.
Well, if you really think that way, then why do you even care about this coin (ASE) at all? Why are you even posting here? It's obvious that this coin has peaked your interest one way or the other. If you really don't care, then I'd expect that you would just be able to walk away from all this. But instead, you're really hoping that this coin value goes down...hm...interesting. Do I sense a little bit of regret at not having caught on or taken the chance of buying this coin?
Anyway, I don't want to argue about this. This coin is selling for what it's selling for. If demand goes up, it'll go up. If demand goes down, it'll go down. The question is, as collectors of this coin, is there anything we can do to affect demand and supply? This isn't a scam...it's simply good business.
<< <i>If they are selling it in bulk it is because they have them in bulk..............it is a commodity. Live with it. >>
Nope, I'm not going to live with it. If at all possible, I'll shoot him an email to stop doing it. Maybe there's some way to get others to do the same.
They just don't understand what kind of effect they have on prices.
And if this is a commodity, then so is the 1995W ASE Proof.
<< <i>Well, if you really think that way, then why do you even care about this coin (ASE) at all? Why are you even posting here? It's obvious that this coin has peaked your interest one way or the other. If you really don't care, then I'd expect that you would just be able to walk away from all this. But instead, you're really hoping that this coin value goes down...hm...interesting. Do I sense a little bit of regret at not having caught on or taken the chance of buying this coin?
Anyway, I don't want to argue about this. This coin is selling for what it's selling for. If demand goes up, it'll go up. If demand goes down, it'll go down. The question is, as collectors of this coin, is there anything we can do to affect demand and supply? This isn't a scam...it's simply good business. >>
When you begin to discuss a carefully planned release structure of a commodity to artificially inflate or even sustain prices, thats the very definition of a SCAM. DeBeers has been doing it for decades. It may not be an illegal scam, but a scam nonetheless. As far as the coin itself, it is incredibally hyped. I have nothing against silver eagles, nor this one in particular. I DO have a problem with people like yourself who wish to rip as many people as possible for as long as possible, and then laugh as the charade collapses. And mark my words....prices on this coin WILL collapse. You like to spray the term "supply and demand" all over the place in your posts. Dont forget to add "market saturation" into your equation. Once all the COLLECTORS of ASE's who want this in their collection have this in their collection, you will still see frantic dealer to dealer sales of these. However, dealer to dealer sales mean nothing if there are no end users. Market saturation = no more end users. No more end users = decline in pricing. Decline in pricing = disaster for speculating scum like yourself (if you were too dumb to dump your inventory by this time). Im a collector, you are a flipper. I care about coins, you care only about profits. Thats the difference between us. I truly hope you lose money on this coin. Its people like you who hype these coins and try to artificially inflate their values, all at the expense of the coin collector.
<< <i>speculating scum like yourself (if you were too dumb to dump your inventory by this time)...I truly hope you lose money on this coin. >>
Nice, you've resorted to name calling and insults. That's really classy. >>
Come into a discussion with presumptive and snooty remarks like:
"Oh, and I'd wager to say that you don't have a single one of these coins. Am I right?" AND "It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin."
and you will get my true opinion. Obviously I have hit a nerve with you. Im fairly sure you wont be around here in another couple years to tell us how much money you lost in your speculating, flipping, scumbag venture. Thats the true tragedy in this exchange. Tell us tho for the record. How much did you make on the 1989 no mintmark quarters? How much did you make on the high/low leaf Wisconsin quarters? Did you make a killing on the "godless" dollars? Please enlighten us. Those 3 coins did extremely well after the initial hype was over, didnt they?
look gecko, you can call it whatever you want, but it's just a part of business.
BMW Mercedes Rolex Louis Vitton Jewlery Dolce and Gabana
Even regular things like
Name brand
Detergent (Tide, Clorox) Banana Republic Dell Computers Bank of America Arrowhead water
EVERY single business has a name. Every single business has a reputation that it tries to uphold and project. As owners of these coins, we have a right to let others know what we think of our property.
And just for your information, I have no intention of "flipping" this coin. I plan on holding onto it for years. Oh, and as for market saturation, I really think that there are more than 47,000 collectors of the ASE (I became one after I learned about this coin). And considering how the mint can't keep up with demand this year for the ASE, I'd think that there are going to be a lot more collectors in the future.
What's going to happen is that these coins are going to be dispersed to the rest of the ASE collector population, but there won't be enough of the coins to "saturate" the market. There are going to be a lot of people who'd like one, but can't get them. In the beginning (and this IS the beginning), people were getting these from the mint multiples(ie, 5, 10, 50, etc). They weren't dispersed individually like the 1995W. However, over time, more and more people are going to buy the reverse ASE's (mostly in singles). At that point, the supply will dry up as less and less people are willing to sell their single coins.
You keep buying "speculator" coins and pray you dont get caught holding heavy on the downturn. I'll keep buying TRUE rarities like this panda, and I dont have to worry about some capitalist flooding the market. Heck, I think PCGS has graded fewer than 20 TOTAL examples of my coin. How many 08 reverse 07's have they graded so far kid? >>
Hey, where did you manage to buy this coin? You obviously got a heck of a deal and I would love to swing that kind of deal someday too. Care to give any details on how you came buy this gem?
<< <i>The question is, as collectors of this coin, is there anything we can do to affect demand and supply? This isn't a scam...it's simply good business. >>
Why do you want to affect supply and demand at all? What do you care? Do you have hundreds of these and you want to force the price even higher than it already is so you can make even more money? Why the big trip on manipulating the market?
OK, let's put it this way. I own this coin. I want the value of the coin to go up since I like valuable things in my possession. Market manipulation? Is that really what it is? Is a woman who calls her best friend to tell her not to wear the same dress to a party "manipulating" the market?
I don't think there's anything wrong with showing enthusiasm for these coins by broadcasting it to others and I don't think there's anything wrong with telling other coin owners to stop selling their coins for so cheap. Is that really "market manipulation"?
Just because some people will pay more for a coin than what YOU think it is worth does not make it a "scam". It is then their right to sell their coin for whatever the market will pay. If no one "flipped" how would anyone buy anything??? Your Panda was sold by someone who probably made a profit (obviously not enough). I bought 15 08/07's from the mint (12 graded 70 NGC). Bought 5 ER 70's at $180 each and 3 ER69's at $89 from MCM. Bought 5 raw from the BST for $180 each. I have sold 6 of those coins which paid THE ENTIRE BILL for all coins. I still have 15 NGC 70's (5 ER) and 6 69's (3 ER) all now at net cost of zero. I will give my son one 70 for his birthday and probably sell 2 more 70's. The rest will sit with me as my collection.
Here's another scam for you...10 times the 08/07 mintage...and they sell pretty well .........1909-s VDB mintage 487,000
<< <i>... I don't think there's anything wrong with telling other coin owners to stop selling their coins for so cheap. Is that really "market manipulation"? >>
Asking people not to sell so many coins at once with the hope that it will increase the coin's value I think one can argue market manipulation.
<< <i>Just because some people will pay more for a coin than what YOU think it is worth does not make it a "scam". It is then their right to sell their coin for whatever the market will pay. If no one "flipped" how would anyone buy anything??? Your Panda was sold by someone who probably made a profit (obviously not enough). I bought 15 08/07's from the mint (12 graded 70 NGC). Bought 5 ER 70's at $180 each and 3 ER69's at $89 from MCM. Bought 5 raw from the BST for $180 each. I have sold 6 of those coins which paid THE ENTIRE BILL for all coins. I still have 15 NGC 70's (5 ER) and 6 69's (3 ER) all now at net cost of zero. I will give my son one 70 for his birthday and probably sell 2 more 70's. The rest will sit with me as my collection.
Here's another scam for you...10 times the 08/07 mintage...and they sell pretty well .........1909-s VDB mintage 487,000 >>
The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate.
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07???
<< <i>No, you said the coin was a scam, reread your own post. >>
I did say "This coin is a SCAM" in my first post. However, thats taking what I meant to say out of context. If you reread the entire paragraph that I wrote before I said the coin was a scam, you should be able to determine that what I truly meant is that the circumstances surrounding the hype of this coin is a scam. I personally like the coolness factor of the coin itself, yet I could never support the current pricing levels as they are. They are not sustainable IMO, and prices will eventually fall on these just as they did with Wisconsin quarters, and "godless" dollars. If I choose to add one to my collection, I'll be smart enough to wait until this "feeding frenzy" is over and the dust has settled.
Comments
<< <i>I'm confident that a lot of people have these coins but don't know it.
Last Friday I overheard a co-worker taliking about investing in silver. He mentioned that he had recently purchased 50 2008 w UNC ASEs. I told him about the errors. He had neve heard of them before. He checked, found 28 of 50 to be '08 w/rev of '07. I explained the TPGs to him, etc. I took him to the Balto. show with me so that he could join PCGS and submit the coins. Instead, he gave one to me as a token of his appreciation for telling him about them, kept 4 and sold the rest raw to a dealer for $500/each.
Had I not told him of this he never would have known. Like many buyers of these coins, he looked at them simply as bullion and does not otherwise follow coins. >>
Fun story and discovery . . . also is a nice commentary on your integrity.
Why . . .
Why . . .
They think I'm a Yankee huh.
I ought to just go there and show them how yankee this old southern redneck is!
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
-69 81/202 40.1%
-70 53/202 26.2
Other 68/202 33.7
<< <i>They briefly made reference to the discovery of this as... some guy in Ohio saying hey look at this..........................
Why . . .
Why . . .
They think I'm a Yankee huh.
I ought to just go there and show them how yankee this old southern redneck is!
Regards, John >>
<< <i>
<< <i>They briefly made reference to the discovery of this as... some guy in Ohio saying hey look at this..........................
Why . . .
Why . . .
They think I'm a Yankee huh.
I ought to just go there and show them how yankee this old southern redneck is!
Regards, John >>
Spoken like a true American. I love it !
HE>I
By the way, for anybody who's interested, MCM was paying 550 per raw two days ago.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
sold last night on tv for $1900.00
<< <i>Fun story and discovery . . . also is a nice commentary on your integrity. >>
Thanks Moke!
<< <i>
<< <i>Fun story and discovery . . . also is a nice commentary on your integrity. >>
Thanks Moke! >>
(Oops! I meant Moki!)
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
trying to tactfully send him somewhere
else or at least give full disclosure-
Follows me everywhere----oh well.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers
<< <i>08/07 rev-anacs with a 08/08 sold as SP70 (2 coin set) 24 of them
sold last night on tv for $1900.00
Remember though, these are the same folks that pay ungodly amounts for gold and silver plated state quarters which the forum likes to rail on about!
I would not lay any thought at all with regard to what HSN is selling these for since HSN follows the principle af marking inventory up by 100% and a few more percentage points for good measure.
If you think that these will sell for more than $1,900 in the future, I think you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Just like any collectible, once the market gets saturated and folks lose interest (i.e. another popular item rolls along) the prices will come down considerably. The folks that bought these slabs as an investment might just as well have invested in mortgage banking and we all know what happened there.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Here is your chance to let PCGS know how you feel regarding where the price of the 2008/2007 reverse ASE will go from here. (I voted will go up
I voted it will go down. Seems like there are too many to sustain the prices. My bet is many who bought recently will try to sell in the next year or so.
<< <i>
<< <i>08/07 rev-anacs with a 08/08 sold as SP70 (2 coin set) 24 of them
sold last night on tv for $1900.00
Remember though, these are the same folks that pay ungodly amounts for gold and silver plated state quarters which the forum likes to rail on about!
I would not lay any thought at all with regard to what HSN is selling these for since HSN follows the principle af marking inventory up by 100% and a few more percentage points for good measure.
If you think that these will sell for more than $1,900 in the future, I think you'll be in for a very rude awakening. Just like any collectible, once the market gets saturated and folks lose interest (i.e. another popular item rolls along) the prices will come down considerably. The folks that bought these slabs as an investment might just as well have invested in mortgage banking and we all know what happened there. >>
Oh, like the 1995-W proof. Yeh, I get it. You can get that for just a little over melt right? I mean that is a 13 year old coin. No interest there.
People that have it will almost always say that it'll go up (unless they're just about ready to sell).
People that don't have it will almost always say that it'll go down (unless they're just about ready to buy).
Like anything, the value of these coins are going to be based on supply and demand. We already have a rough estimate of the supply...now it's just a matter of whether the vast majority of the public is going to be convinced as to how desirable these coins are. Advertising, marketing, word of mouth, publications, etc will all contribute (or not contribute) to the demand of these coins. So...maybe what we should do is to try our best to get more people to get interested and excited about this coin.
And as for the nay sayers, all I've got to say is this:
...ewww....bleh....Lord...these grapes sure are sour!!!
<< <i>
Oh, like the 1995-W proof. Yeh, I get it. You can get that for just a little over melt right? I mean that is a 13 year old coin. No interest there. >>
One key point to this arguement is that the only way to obtain the 1995 W Silver Eagle was to buy the complete GOLD set. Let's consider this for a moment. Only 31,000 + sets were sold and they were not cheap.
Do we really know how many bullion pieces were struck, and how much residual interest will remain in 13 yrs for this one ? Just ponderances on collecting, not predictions on precious metals.
However, if anyone feels generous, I'd be happy to trade some 90% coin for one raw '08 w/'07 rev ASE
... It would be just right for my 7070
HE>I
<< <i>One key point to this arguement is that the only way to obtain the 1995 W Silver Eagle was to buy the complete GOLD set. Let's consider this for a moment. Only 31,000 + sets were sold and they were not cheap. >>
I think that what you're saying is that because the 1995 w ASE proof was sold with the Gold set, then people are going to instinctly believe that it's worth more because of its association with the Gold. Well, that could be true. It's difficult to understand the psychology of how people attribute value to something.
In all honesty, it's really not that hard to drive up prices. All the sellers need to reduce supply (ration and slow down selling), and more people have to know about this coin. HSN, Coin World, Coast to Coast Coins, etc...the more coverage this coin gets, the better. But let's just say...there are only 50 coins being sold on ebay at any given time...it should drive up the prices significantly. Then...sellers could trickle the supply over time (long term) and all the sellers should win out. But there has to be discipline enough to hold back selling and wait (for the long term). I think this is what a lot of industries do (oil, diamonds, stocks are just a few I can think of).
<< <i>All the sellers need to reduce supply (ration and slow down selling), >>
It's always been about supply and demand. In my opinion this coin has the potential to both sustain and increase its value in the years to come.
<< <i>Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
Face the facts! This is a COMMON coin at best! The people who are cashing in right now at $400-$500 per coin would be smart to sell as many, as quickly as possible. The mere fact that some of you are discussing the possibility of orchestrating a seller "slowdown" is proof that this coin is not the rarity you all thought it was. If you truly believe the coin has staying power, you would all be buyers at current pricing. The truth is however, 90% or more of you are simply flippers who want to unload these to the highest biddiots! If I had 200-300 of these coins in my inventory, they would all be sold by the end of the week. This coin is a SCAM!
, Coins Magazine, whatever). Get them to drum up demand. The more people get aware, the more money will go into this coin. Maybe call your local coin dealers too, and ask them about it...maybe mention them at coin shows too...
<< <i>Face the facts! This is a COMMON coin at best! The people who are cashing in right now at $400-$500 per coin would be smart to sell as many, as quickly as possible. The mere fact that some of you are discussing the possibility of orchestrating a seller "slowdown" is proof that this coin is not the rarity you all thought it was. If you truly believe the coin has staying power, you would all be buyers at current pricing. The truth is however, 90% or more of you are simply flippers who want to unload these to the highest biddiots! If I had 200-300 of these coins in my inventory, they would all be sold by the end of the week. This coin is a SCAM! >>
Yeah...then in that case, this entire industry is a scam. Who in their right minds would spend tens...hundreds of thousands of dollars for a cheap round piece of low grade metal? People buy it because they want to buy it. If you want to call that a scam, well, that's your right to do so.
Supply and demand, that's the only thing that matters. Increase demand and reduce supply. Like I said, this gets done in so many different industries already. It's business.
Oh, and I'd wager to say that you don't have a single one of these coins. Am I right?
<< <i>Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
Yes comrade, how dare these capitalists sell the coins they own. They should be forced to hold their inventory for your benefit.
<< <i>Yes comrade, how dare these capitalists sell the coins they own. They should be forced to hold their inventory for your benefit. >>
you don't seem to understand anything about economics. this is a classic example of a totally free market vs a cartel. in a cartel, because you can control prices, everyone can win more, in the long run. in a totally free market, everyone wins less.
if you know anything about game theory, you'll know that over time, competitors realize that it's better to work together and cooperate with each other in order to achieve the maximum amout of gain.
this has nothing to do with helping me. it has to do with helping every seller's interest.
<< <i>
<< <i>Face the facts! This is a COMMON coin at best! The people who are cashing in right now at $400-$500 per coin would be smart to sell as many, as quickly as possible. The mere fact that some of you are discussing the possibility of orchestrating a seller "slowdown" is proof that this coin is not the rarity you all thought it was. If you truly believe the coin has staying power, you would all be buyers at current pricing. The truth is however, 90% or more of you are simply flippers who want to unload these to the highest biddiots! If I had 200-300 of these coins in my inventory, they would all be sold by the end of the week. This coin is a SCAM! >>
Yeah...then in that case, this entire industry is a scam. Who in their right minds would spend tens...hundreds of thousands of dollars for a cheap round piece of low grade metal? People buy it because they want to buy it. If you want to call that a scam, well, that's your right to do so.
Supply and demand, that's the only thing that matters. Increase demand and reduce supply. Like I said, this gets done in so many different industries already. It's business.
Oh, and I'd wager to say that you don't have a single one of these coins. Am I right?
Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in!
<< <i>Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in!
It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>Of course I dont own one. Why would I want to own something I clearly dont believe in? Just do yourself a favor, when the music stops playing, make sure you have a chair to sit in!
It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin.
Well if you bought at $150, you MUST feel fairly stupid as MANY of the flippers of these coins bought theirs at about $30 directly from the mint. Furthermore, I just forked over $200 for this coin 3 weeks ago. It graded PCGS PR69DCAM. Do a little research (hint: ebay) and come back and tell me how I did.
You keep buying "speculator" coins and pray you dont get caught holding heavy on the downturn. I'll keep buying TRUE rarities like this panda, and I dont have to worry about some capitalist flooding the market. Heck, I think PCGS has graded fewer than 20 TOTAL examples of my coin. How many 08 reverse 07's have they graded so far kid?
<< <i>Geez...it's so annoying when people sell these coins "in bulk" (5...10...20 at a time). They're totally ruining it not just for themselves, but for everyone else too. When people see this as just another "commodity", that's when the value drops. Sellers should only be limited to sell one/week. But something like this is hard to coordinate since every seller needs to get involved in this plan. Otherwise, you'll have some sellers who are limiting their supply, but you'll have others who ruin everything by selling like crazy (I've seen so many times when a seller would sell NGC ms70's 5 at a time).
If they are selling it in bulk it is because they have them in bulk..............it is a commodity.
Live with it.
Anyway, I don't want to argue about this. This coin is selling for what it's selling for. If demand goes up, it'll go up. If demand goes down, it'll go down. The question is, as collectors of this coin, is there anything we can do to affect demand and supply? This isn't a scam...it's simply good business.
<< <i>If they are selling it in bulk it is because they have them in bulk..............it is a commodity.
Live with it. >>
Nope, I'm not going to live with it. If at all possible, I'll shoot him an email to stop doing it. Maybe there's some way to get others to do the same.
They just don't understand what kind of effect they have on prices.
And if this is a commodity, then so is the 1995W ASE Proof.
<< <i>Well, if you really think that way, then why do you even care about this coin (ASE) at all? Why are you even posting here? It's obvious that this coin has peaked your interest one way or the other. If you really don't care, then I'd expect that you would just be able to walk away from all this. But instead, you're really hoping that this coin value goes down...hm...interesting. Do I sense a little bit of regret at not having caught on or taken the chance of buying this coin?
Anyway, I don't want to argue about this. This coin is selling for what it's selling for. If demand goes up, it'll go up. If demand goes down, it'll go down. The question is, as collectors of this coin, is there anything we can do to affect demand and supply? This isn't a scam...it's simply good business. >>
When you begin to discuss a carefully planned release structure of a commodity to artificially inflate or even sustain prices, thats the very definition of a SCAM. DeBeers has been doing it for decades. It may not be an illegal scam, but a scam nonetheless. As far as the coin itself, it is incredibally hyped. I have nothing against silver eagles, nor this one in particular. I DO have a problem with people like yourself who wish to rip as many people as possible for as long as possible, and then laugh as the charade collapses. And mark my words....prices on this coin WILL collapse. You like to spray the term "supply and demand" all over the place in your posts. Dont forget to add "market saturation" into your equation. Once all the COLLECTORS of ASE's who want this in their collection have this in their collection, you will still see frantic dealer to dealer sales of these. However, dealer to dealer sales mean nothing if there are no end users. Market saturation = no more end users. No more end users = decline in pricing. Decline in pricing = disaster for speculating scum like yourself (if you were too dumb to dump your inventory by this time). Im a collector, you are a flipper. I care about coins, you care only about profits. Thats the difference between us. I truly hope you lose money on this coin. Its people like you who hype these coins and try to artificially inflate their values, all at the expense of the coin collector.
<< <i>speculating scum like yourself (if you were too dumb to dump your inventory by this time)...I truly hope you lose money on this coin. >>
Nice, you've resorted to name calling and insults. That's really classy.
<< <i>
<< <i>speculating scum like yourself (if you were too dumb to dump your inventory by this time)...I truly hope you lose money on this coin. >>
Nice, you've resorted to name calling and insults. That's really classy.
Come into a discussion with presumptive and snooty remarks like:
"Oh, and I'd wager to say that you don't have a single one of these coins. Am I right?"
AND
"It's OK, I understand now. Really, you should stop kicking yourself for not buying at $150/coin."
and you will get my true opinion. Obviously I have hit a nerve with you. Im fairly sure you wont be around here in another couple years to tell us how much money you lost in your speculating, flipping, scumbag venture. Thats the true tragedy in this exchange. Tell us tho for the record. How much did you make on the 1989 no mintmark quarters? How much did you make on the high/low leaf Wisconsin quarters? Did you make a killing on the "godless" dollars? Please enlighten us. Those 3 coins did extremely well after the initial hype was over, didnt they?
BMW
Mercedes
Rolex
Louis Vitton
Jewlery
Dolce and Gabana
Even regular things like
Name brand
Detergent (Tide, Clorox)
Banana Republic
Dell Computers
Bank of America
Arrowhead water
EVERY single business has a name. Every single business has a reputation that it tries to uphold and project. As owners of these coins, we have a right to let others know what we think of our property.
And just for your information, I have no intention of "flipping" this coin. I plan on holding onto it for years. Oh, and as for market saturation, I really think that there are more than 47,000 collectors of the ASE (I became one after I learned about this coin). And considering how the mint can't keep up with demand this year for the ASE, I'd think that there are going to be a lot more collectors in the future.
What's going to happen is that these coins are going to be dispersed to the rest of the ASE collector population, but there won't be enough of the coins to "saturate" the market. There are going to be a lot of people who'd like one, but can't get them. In the beginning (and this IS the beginning), people were getting these from the mint multiples(ie, 5, 10, 50, etc). They weren't dispersed individually like the 1995W. However, over time, more and more people are going to buy the reverse ASE's (mostly in singles). At that point, the supply will dry up as less and less people are willing to sell their single coins.
<< <i>
You keep buying "speculator" coins and pray you dont get caught holding heavy on the downturn. I'll keep buying TRUE rarities like this panda, and I dont have to worry about some capitalist flooding the market. Heck, I think PCGS has graded fewer than 20 TOTAL examples of my coin. How many 08 reverse 07's have they graded so far kid? >>
Hey, where did you manage to buy this coin? You obviously got a heck of a deal and I would love to swing that kind of deal someday too. Care to give any details on how you came buy this gem?
Jeff
<< <i>The question is, as collectors of this coin, is there anything we can do to affect demand and supply? This isn't a scam...it's simply good business. >>
Why do you want to affect supply and demand at all? What do you care? Do you have hundreds of these and you want to force the price even higher than it already is so you can make even more money? Why the big trip on manipulating the market?
OK, let's put it this way. I own this coin. I want the value of the coin to go up since I like valuable things in my possession. Market manipulation? Is that really what it is? Is a woman who calls her best friend to tell her not to wear the same dress to a party "manipulating" the market?
I don't think there's anything wrong with showing enthusiasm for these coins by broadcasting it to others and I don't think there's anything wrong with telling other coin owners to stop selling their coins for so cheap. Is that really "market manipulation"?
I bought 15 08/07's from the mint (12 graded 70 NGC). Bought 5 ER 70's at $180 each and 3 ER69's at $89 from MCM. Bought 5 raw from the BST for $180 each. I have sold 6 of those coins which paid THE ENTIRE BILL for all coins.
I still have 15 NGC 70's (5 ER) and 6 69's (3 ER) all now at net cost of zero. I will give my son one 70 for his birthday and probably sell 2 more 70's. The rest will sit with me as my collection.
Here's another scam for you...10 times the 08/07 mintage...and they sell pretty well .........1909-s VDB mintage 487,000
<< <i>... I don't think there's anything wrong with telling other coin owners to stop selling their coins for so cheap. Is that really "market manipulation"? >>
Asking people not to sell so many coins at once with the hope that it will increase the coin's value I think one can argue market manipulation.
<< <i>Just because some people will pay more for a coin than what YOU think it is worth does not make it a "scam". It is then their right to sell their coin for whatever the market will pay. If no one "flipped" how would anyone buy anything??? Your Panda was sold by someone who probably made a profit (obviously not enough).
I bought 15 08/07's from the mint (12 graded 70 NGC). Bought 5 ER 70's at $180 each and 3 ER69's at $89 from MCM. Bought 5 raw from the BST for $180 each. I have sold 6 of those coins which paid THE ENTIRE BILL for all coins.
I still have 15 NGC 70's (5 ER) and 6 69's (3 ER) all now at net cost of zero. I will give my son one 70 for his birthday and probably sell 2 more 70's. The rest will sit with me as my collection.
Here's another scam for you...10 times the 08/07 mintage...and they sell pretty well .........1909-s VDB mintage 487,000 >>
The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate.
<< <i>The "scam" I refer to is the market manipulation suggested here by some to artificially keep prices high on this item. If you cannot agree that this premise in itself is a scam, then we are at a stalemate >>
I agree with the term "market manipulation" but do not equate it with the term "scam".....Sellers will raise the price to whatever the market will bear and eventually the price will level out to a reasonable product value. More demand after that and the market will respond again. No different than the stock market....metals...anything. Is Google a scam at $550/share. Would I rather have a share of Google or a raw 08/07???
<< <i>No, you said the coin was a scam, reread your own post. >>
I did say "This coin is a SCAM" in my first post. However, thats taking what I meant to say out of context. If you reread the entire paragraph that I wrote before I said the coin was a scam, you should be able to determine that what I truly meant is that the circumstances surrounding the hype of this coin is a scam. I personally like the coolness factor of the coin itself, yet I could never support the current pricing levels as they are. They are not sustainable IMO, and prices will eventually fall on these just as they did with Wisconsin quarters, and "godless" dollars. If I choose to add one to my collection, I'll be smart enough to wait until this "feeding frenzy" is over and the dust has settled.