You are doing well lope. I did the same thing. I am currently holding 12 graded PCGS 11-69's & 1- 70 + 1 NGC 70. I paid for these flipping raw coins, so, I can afford to hold these to see what happens. Including the NGC70, which I bought online for $360, and the 12 first strikes I got from the mint they only stand me around $100 each.
<< <i>Wow, apparently there are only 25,000 of these....according to this guy...link dirt ball... >>
i wonder if he was a used car salesman in a former life?.. like he knows something nobody else knows?.. sorry, there aren't 25,000.. there are 20,212.. no wait, there are 31,198.. stand in the booth with a bajillion ping pong balls flying around, each with a number printed on it.. grab one.. that's how many were shipped.. like many others, i'm waiting to see the Mint's response to the FOIA request that someone here filed a couple of weeks ago.. i still think the Mint will find some excuse from the "reasons we can wiggle out of this" list and not respond with the requested information, but who knows.. if they actually DO respond with a number shipped that's significantly lower than the 47,000 they claimed they made.. things will suddenly get very interesting.. who knows what they'll say?.. as far as that guy's feedback where someone said he bought one of these pig-in-a-poke boxes and got five oz. of Gold.. well, you can say anything you want to in a feedback, as long as it conforms to eBay's rules about no personal attacks, name calling, or whatever else they ban.. my results of two small orders in the first week of May, in the same time he ordered that box.. resulted in 08/08s.. which i returned, they got them back, they emailed and said they've issued a credit to my CC.. i'm waiting for that to show up..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I know it's highly unlikely, but I may place a random order later in the summer for a few more from the Mint. You know, just in case they go cleaning the shelves in Memphis or something
I have a feeling we could see a few (as in less than 10) show up randomly in various orders.
It's basically a 10 in a million chance now from the Mint IMO. >>
I don't know what the mint security rules are but I would be extremely surprised given the value of these coins that someone working at the mint would not go through all of the older ASE coins there and checked for them.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>But--- he is guaranteeing you a chance to own one----WoW! >>
"You're absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, positively, certainly guaranteed a chance to win!"
Sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign up? >>
i sent him a question through eBay asking him to cite chapter and verse of where he came up with the 25,000 figure.. think he'll answer?.. i'll post it if he does.. meanwhile..
he says "CAN NOT GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE BOX WILL CONTAIN THE ERROR COINS BUT I GUARANTEE YOU A CHANCE !!!"
these lotto tickets in my pocket GUARANTEE me a chance to win anywhere from $0.00 to $20 million or more.. hey, last week i won $1.00! most tickets win nothing. eventually someone hits the jackpot (at about 40 million to one odds.. at least in CA..) .. i'm not greedy.. i'll gladly settle for second prize, which, depending on how many people have the right number combo, and what the pool is, can be anywhere from low five figures to mid six figures..
this guy can't even guarantee there are coins in that box.. errors, non-errors, some packing guy's half-eaten sandwich.. wadded up paper, a dead rat.. who knows what's in there?.. if you remember photos way back up there of a box like this that had one or more empty capsules in it.. all he can truthfully guarantee is you'll pay $X and get a box.. contents unknown.. i'm not saying the auction is a scam.. there are lots of auctions just like this.. i'm saying his wording is.. well.. to be polite about it.. hmm.. i can't even think of a way to be polite about it..
he's counting on some sucker to pay him huge money for a chance to get one or more 08/07s.. it's just a different form of a lotto ticket.. if he was THAT convinced that whatever's in there was packed during the window of opportunity, then he'd have opened it himself.. i could have doen an auction like this with the sealed boxes i got a month ago.. so could any of you.. there probably aren't even any more 08/07s sitting in Memphis.. when was the last reported order date here that resulted in any?.. i can't even remember.. weeks.. one of you guys with wads of money, go ahead.. place a bunch of orders.. spin the wheel.. see if you get lucky.. prepare yourself for disappointment.. just as whoever buys his box should prepare for disappointment.. but whaddya gonna do.. auctioning sealed boxes isn't illegal..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I've been reading here and there for some time, especially this thread (all 3900+ posts), and decided to sign up, so I could add my two cents.
First, a giant thank-you to those who have contributed so much information here on this variety, especially to John Nanney, who started it all. So what if he sucks?
I've been collecting since 1959, and thought I'd seen it all. Nope, this one takes the cake. Though created by carelessness at the Mint, this is a legitimate Variety, and its value should increase. Not like the fabled 1995 Proof, but this is no Wisconsin Quarter or letterless Dollar error, either. (Ask me about those critters, I'm still sitting on two rolls of the darn things.)
How many were released? Who cares? Not enough, that's how many.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
That is most likely a strike doubling not a double die. To my knowledge strike doubles do not add to the premium of a coin unless it is very prominent-maybe not even then.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
That is most likely a strike doubling not a double die. To my knowledge strike doubles do not add to the premium of a coin unless it is very prominent-maybe not even then. >>
when the Proof 1999 SBAs were released that year, i ordered a bunch of them the first hour of the first day they were available.. can't remember how many i ordered.. half a dozen, maybe.. three of them had easily-visible doubling or tripling on the Reverse.. very few such coins were ever reported.. a dozen or fewer (i'd have to do a lot of digging through Rec.collecting.coins where these were dicussed endlessly, and Alan Herbert of NN also used to participate..) .. then it made the cover of NN in an article by Alan.. it was never declared an "official" variety, as far as i know, you won't find it in any price guides or the Red book.. and no TPG service will label it as such, as far as i know.. i sold the three that i had years ago on eBay and got more than $200.00 or $300.00 each for them.. raw..
some years later, the guy who discovered it, a fellow R.c.c.-er.. who also ordered the first hour of the first day they went on sale, who also got three of them.. who sent the discovery coin to Alan, which resulted in the article below, sold me the discovery piece, which i still own, along with the issue of NN with the cover story.. i shot the picture below back in 2000 in a hurry, but i save everything, so i just enhanced and sharpened it a bit, so it should be readable.. the significant sentence stating:
"The status of the two different instances of die bounce is significantly different. The first occurs between the normal first and second strike AND IS THUS TECHNICALLY A PART OF THE MINTING PROCESS (emphasis mine).. the second occurs after the second strike.." ..
because Proof coins are struck twice, there was much debate over whether the doubling or tripling happened during the strike, between, or after the strike(s) due to die bounce.. the last i read, it was determined that it was tripling.. and happened both between the two strikes and after.. making it a legitimate error.. i forget all the gory details.. a search of Rec.collecting.coins via Google groups would turn up a bajillion postings about it.. i wasn't participating on these boreds in 1999, and don't even remember if they existed in 1999 so i don't know if it was discussed here..
in other words, IF it occurs DURING the Minting process (which this did).. then it's a legitimate Minting error.. if it occurs AFTER the second strike, it's die-bounce and NOT a legitimate Minting error.. even though the coin is still in the press during the die-bounce after the second strike.. these coins exhibit BOTH.. so it's actually tripling.. or not, depending on how you interpret what he wrote..
anyway, if any of you have any 1999 Proof SBAs, check them.. you don't need a loupe to see this.. and sorry to stray off-topic.. except to ask, Burnished "-W" ASEs are struck only once, aren't they?..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common?
EDIT: I just got this email from PCGS. This is in reponse to a question about when PCGS will include this coin in their registry.
Hello Tony
This policy allows all registrants working on modern sets ample time to obtain coins released by the mint during the year. For further information please refer to the “Rules” page at the following link.
Jaye Woodward Collectors Universe Set Registry Coordinator 949-567-1234 ext. 295
So, it looks like it's not a matter of whether they're going to include this coin as part of their registry. It's now just a matter of time as to when they're going to do it.
<< <i>So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common? >>
Finding them without this doubling is the real rarity. Usually, the newer the die the more clear the doubling and the older the die, the mushier it gets but it's still there.
BTW, this also exists with the proofs.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common? >>
Finding them without this doubling is the real rarity. Usually, the newer the die the more clear the doubling and the older the die, the mushier it gets but it's still there.
BTW, this also exists with the proofs. >>
Thanks 19Lyds.
Two listings from same guy....exactly the same pics, and descriptions. Just titles have chanced from ETREMELY RARE to just RARE:
This isn't a daily dump but it is some new information.
Below are the raw (searching "2007 reverse 2008 -ngc -pcgs") number of items sold and average sold price for the past two months and then below that, the past two weeks. Below all that is a pretty cool chart for NGC MS69 coins for the past two weeks, they have been crazy steady.
Past two months
Past two weeks
This is very interesting. For the past two weeks, NGC MS69 coins have been almost completely steady around $500.
the fact that prices have not dropped with the somewhat less interest.... bodes well for still higher prices >>
well, you didn't elaborate on what you mean by "somewhat less interest".. so i don't know if you mean here, there, or somewhere else.. after nearly four thousand postings in this thread, there's not a whole lot left to say until / unless that FOIA request bears fruit.. but as a subscriber to both CW and NN, i can tell you that every weekly issue of both has more and more ads for the 08/07s.. some of them, full page.. most of them, boxes in regular multi-page spreads from all the usual suspects.. and every week, every display ad dealers' prices go up.. in both latest issues of CW and NN, Coast to Coast's ads now feature a box saying they're buying at $600.00 and selling at $675.00 (i assume for raws).. yesterday's latest CW had a full page ad from Chattanooga Coins for NGC MS70s (not ER).. for a few bucks shy of $1000.00.. with a three-payment layaway plan for folks who can't cough up a grand in one go..
going back just a couple weeks, the same dealers' ads had raws for under $300.00 (when eBay prices were already topping $500.00.. owing to the couple of weeks of lead time for a weekly publication..) .. many display ad dealers say "market is volatile - call for current price", many don't.. some say "limit 1" or "limit 2", some don't.. but these coins are still on a climb with no end in sight.. there are also a lot of letters to the Editor commenting on them appearing mainly in CW.. in other words, from my observations of what's going on with these magazines, there are FAR more ads for them and FAR more Editorial content about them than there was a month ago, and more a month ago than a month before that when they were discovered.. i have yet to see a single dealer drop his price in his display ad.. and from the looks of it, most of them have very few in stock.. i can't even remember the last time i saw Coast to Coast advertise a buy price for any particular coin or set in their ads..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I called Coast to Coast last week. They were all out. Also, maybe we shouldn't use ebay as a way to determine total market demand. After all, I'd say that most people don't even think about going onto ebay to buy anything. For those folks who want any of these coins, it's either local or national dealers.
Is it possible that a lot of the ebay buyers are actually brick and mortar dealers who are trying to sell to customers? I mean, how else are those customers going to get these if they don't go on ebay?
<< <i>I called Coast to Coast last week. They were all out. Also, maybe we shouldn't use ebay as a way to determine total market demand. After all, I'd say that most people don't even think about going onto ebay to buy anything. For those folks who want any of these coins, it's either local or national dealers. >>
maybe, maybe not.. there ARE many collectors who still don't use computers at all, and rely on magazines and mailed catalogs.. whether they're computerphobes or luddites who knows.. that's another discussion.. but in many cases, people rush to eBay before doing a bit of research, and pay double or triple for an item that they could buy from that item's mfr. for a fraction of what eBay sellers ask AND get for them.. i'll give you one example that has nothing to do with coins.. do an eBay search for Sony MDR-V6 headphones.. after using them for a few years, their "pleather" ear pads tend to start to flake and come apart, simply from age, and hundreds of hours of contact with one's hair and skin.. this is no reflection on the quality of the cans, as they are excellent headphones and i've been using the same pair for over twenty years.. but i've seen eBay sellers asking and GETTING $20.00 and up for a pair of genuine Sony replacement earpads for these headphones.. Sony has a parts site where you can buy the exact same ear pads, directly from them, for five bucks each.. with personal electronics and computer parts, eBay IS often cheaper - example - i just bought two sealed, double-packs of genuine Canon ink for my printer from an eBay seller for less than HALF what the Staples down the street charges for the exact same thing.. and Staples' price is exactly the same as Canon's.. no bargains there.. nevermind the five bucks worth of gasoline i'd have to burn to drive to Staples and back.. (since gasoline went over $4.00/gallon and is now pushing $5.00/gallon.. people are doing a LOT more shopping online and combining trips to everywhere)..
so there are two real-world personal examples of items that you'll typicaly pay more than double for on eBay than direct from the mfr., and another where you'll pay less than half on eBay than buying from the mfrs. or driving to a store..
are there people buying 08/07s from dealers?.. of course there are.. if not, the dealers would be dropping their prices, not raising them.. if the dealers can't get them or run out, where do you think they go to get more for their own customers?.. (rhetorical question)..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Stop bumping start paying attention.... Geez Tvac are you on a mission to get the most posts in 10 minutes or what, your filling up the right side with 3 or 4 word posts....
Casman....you arent the only one that's getting annoyed......
edited to add: annoyed, only in the sense that, like one of my jr. high teachers told me....open ears, close mouth. Too much to learn here to simply bump threads.
Here are some more pictures of my machine trippled (i guess?) 2008 ASE with the reverse of 2007.
I only put my name on the pictures because I didn't want someone getting these and using them to sell other coins. I don't think these are that rare, but I think that because other people here told me they were not rare.
<< <i>So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common? >>
Finding them without this doubling is the real rarity. Usually, the newer the die the more clear the doubling and the older the die, the mushier it gets but it's still there.
BTW, this also exists with the proofs. >>
Thanks 19Lyds.
Two listings from same guy....exactly the same pics, and descriptions. Just titles have chanced from ETREMELY RARE to just RARE:
I don't know...how rare can this really be if he has two identical (assembly line) listings, just ready to go? >>
You'll have to quote my post since our display pages are different and the link doesn;t work for me.
How rare can this guys doubled 08/07 rev SAE's be? Is that what you are asking?
All he needs to do is ride the hysteria wave and continue to put them up. Some fish will swim by a take the bait but it has nothing to do with rarity just what some may "perceive" as a rarity within this wave.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
2008-W REVERSE OF 2007 Tripple Struck Date MS70 First Strike
That would be kinda cool, no? >>
you mean Trippple? don't forget, off-center, 180 degree reverse rotated, Extra Leaf, doubled trees, spiked head, cud, die crack, Superbird, Bugs Bunny, broadstruck on Kennedy Half planchet with missing clad layer and no reeding..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Read an interesting little ditty in CW's Guest Commentary today. Don't have the article right here with me, but the author was saying that the '96, ASE with a mintage of 3.6 mil sells for about $60. The 08/07 is 80 times rarer and is selling at only about 10X the '96 price. Moreover, when comparing mintage/price of the '96 to the '06 Rev. Proof, the '06 should be selling for over $1000!
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Hey jsf, I've noticed by searching 2008 reverse 2007 I get numbers closer to 200...what search parimeters are you using...? Also, I've noticed Raws pulling about $50-75 more than graded pcgs/ngc as of last night...
don't let it worry you; that may be sellers letting Saturday night buyers think about it a bit longer before they head out for church on Sunday morning, who knows? wgas?
<< <i>I wish I had acrystal ball to see what December's prices are going to be. It should be very interesting! >>
I just happen to have one here and it says that raws will be much higher and NGC69ER's will be slightly more. PCGS versions will command a 10-30% premium over NGC likes.
As far as actual numbers my crystal ball says to check back around December 15 for the update.
Just a little update…I actually did email my contact at NGC, asking about the idea of double dies for the 2008 ASE 2007 Reverse. She said that there have been none reported so far. But she did say that if I think I’ve got one, I should submit it to them, telling them to look out for any double die action.
OK, well, out of the over 11,000 coins that have already been submitted to NGC, none have come back with “double die” status. Does that mean that the graders just didn’t notice when they were doing a regular grading? Or does it mean that the graders will only try to look for a double die when you actually ask them to look out for that feature? I asked her this, but I didn’t think she knew.
Anyway, there you go. I was also thinking….15 dies (reverse) 47,000 coins total. Does that also mean that there were15 obverse dies too (since it seems that the double die only seems to affect the obverse)? And if that’s the case…then that means that each die…47,000/15=3,133 coins. That means that if there are double dies….then there should be at least 3,133 of them, right? 3,133…that’s a lot of coins that nobody noticed (not even professional graders) were double dies….
You be the judge…who knows, it’s possible that the NGC graders have overlooked over 11,000 coins and let slip all the ones that were double die'd….but, like she said, if anyone suspects, then just submit one to them telling them to pay careful attention for double die imprint.
Comments
Three thousand, nine hundred and one widgets for one special ASE
<< <i>Wow, apparently there are only 25,000 of these....according to this guy...link dirt ball...
i wonder if he was a used car salesman in a former life?.. like he knows something nobody else knows?.. sorry, there aren't 25,000.. there are 20,212.. no wait, there are 31,198.. stand in the booth with a bajillion ping pong balls flying around, each with a number printed on it.. grab one.. that's how many were shipped..
like many others, i'm waiting to see the Mint's response to the FOIA request that someone here filed a couple of weeks ago.. i still think the Mint will find some excuse from the "reasons we can wiggle out of this" list and not respond with the requested information, but who knows.. if they actually DO respond with a number shipped that's significantly lower than the 47,000 they claimed they made.. things will suddenly get very interesting.. who knows what they'll say?..
as far as that guy's feedback where someone said he bought one of these pig-in-a-poke boxes and got five oz. of Gold.. well, you can say anything you want to in a feedback, as long as it conforms to eBay's rules about no personal attacks, name calling, or whatever else they ban.. my results of two small orders in the first week of May, in the same time he ordered that box.. resulted in 08/08s.. which i returned, they got them back, they emailed and said they've issued a credit to my CC.. i'm waiting for that to show up..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>
<< <i>Last four orders from the mint. Shut out!
0/5
0/10
0/10
0/20
Order these at the end of May.
I know it's highly unlikely, but I may place a random order later in the summer for a few more
from the Mint. You know, just in case they go cleaning the shelves in Memphis or something
I have a feeling we could see a few (as in less than 10) show up randomly in various orders.
It's basically a 10 in a million chance now from the Mint IMO. >>
I don't know what the mint security rules are but I would be extremely surprised given the value of these coins that someone working at the mint would not go through all of the older ASE coins there and checked for them.
<< <i>But--- he is guaranteeing you a chance to own one----WoW! >>
Nothing better than a guarantee
<< <i>But--- he is guaranteeing you a chance to own one----WoW! >>
"You're absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, positively, certainly guaranteed a chance to win!"
Sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign up?
Mr. Koo,
We have added a separate slot for the 2008-W S$1 Eagle Reverse of 2007 to the following sets:
Silver Eagles 1986 – date, Mint Set
American Eagles 1986 – date, Mint Set
American Eagles 1986 – date, Complete Set
I hope this information is helpful. Thank you for your inquiry.
Amy T. Lorenzo
NGC
http://www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/public_sets.aspx?sets=all&CategoryID=8
<< <i>
<< <i>But--- he is guaranteeing you a chance to own one----WoW! >>
"You're absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, positively, certainly guaranteed a chance to win!"
Sounds like a great deal. Where do I sign up?
i sent him a question through eBay asking him to cite chapter and verse of where he came up with the 25,000 figure.. think he'll answer?.. i'll post it if he does.. meanwhile..
he says "CAN NOT GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE BOX WILL CONTAIN THE ERROR COINS BUT I GUARANTEE YOU A CHANCE !!!"
these lotto tickets in my pocket GUARANTEE me a chance to win anywhere from $0.00 to $20 million or more.. hey, last week i won $1.00! most tickets win nothing. eventually someone hits the jackpot (at about 40 million to one odds.. at least in CA..) .. i'm not greedy.. i'll gladly settle for second prize, which, depending on how many people have the right number combo, and what the pool is, can be anywhere from low five figures to mid six figures..
this guy can't even guarantee there are coins in that box.. errors, non-errors, some packing guy's half-eaten sandwich.. wadded up paper, a dead rat.. who knows what's in there?.. if you remember photos way back up there of a box like this that had one or more empty capsules in it.. all he can truthfully guarantee is you'll pay $X and get a box.. contents unknown.. i'm not saying the auction is a scam.. there are lots of auctions just like this.. i'm saying his wording is.. well.. to be polite about it.. hmm.. i can't even think of a way to be polite about it..
he's counting on some sucker to pay him huge money for a chance to get one or more 08/07s.. it's just a different form of a lotto ticket.. if he was THAT convinced that whatever's in there was packed during the window of opportunity, then he'd have opened it himself.. i could have doen an auction like this with the sealed boxes i got a month ago.. so could any of you.. there probably aren't even any more 08/07s sitting in Memphis.. when was the last reported order date here that resulted in any?.. i can't even remember.. weeks.. one of you guys with wads of money, go ahead.. place a bunch of orders.. spin the wheel.. see if you get lucky.. prepare yourself for disappointment..
just as whoever buys his box should prepare for disappointment.. but whaddya gonna do.. auctioning sealed boxes isn't illegal..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
First, a giant thank-you to those who have contributed so much information here on this variety, especially to John Nanney, who started it all. So what if he sucks?
I've been collecting since 1959, and thought I'd seen it all. Nope, this one takes the cake. Though created by carelessness at the Mint, this is a legitimate Variety, and its value should increase. Not like the fabled 1995 Proof, but this is no Wisconsin Quarter or letterless Dollar error, either. (Ask me about those critters, I'm still sitting on two rolls of the darn things.)
How many were released? Who cares? Not enough, that's how many.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
RARE 2008 rev 2007 ERROR American Eagle DOUBLE DIE?
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-2008-rev-2007-ERROR-American-Eagle-DOUBLE-DIE_W0QQitemZ250259771978QQihZ015QQcategoryZ39488QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Any thoughts?
<< <i>Here's another jaw dropper:
RARE 2008 rev 2007 ERROR American Eagle DOUBLE DIE?
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-2008-rev-2007-ERROR-American-Eagle-DOUBLE-DIE_W0QQitemZ250259771978QQihZ015QQcategoryZ39488QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Any thoughts? >>
That is most likely a strike doubling not a double die. To my knowledge strike doubles do not add to the premium of a coin unless it is very prominent-maybe not even then.
<< <i>
That is most likely a strike doubling not a double die. To my knowledge strike doubles do not add to the premium of a coin unless it is very prominent-maybe not even then. >>
when the Proof 1999 SBAs were released that year, i ordered a bunch of them the first hour of the first day they were available.. can't remember how many i ordered.. half a dozen, maybe.. three of them had easily-visible doubling or tripling on the Reverse.. very few such coins were ever reported.. a dozen or fewer (i'd have to do a lot of digging through Rec.collecting.coins where these were dicussed endlessly, and Alan Herbert of NN also used to participate..) .. then it made the cover of NN in an article by Alan.. it was never declared an "official" variety, as far as i know, you won't find it in any price guides or the Red book.. and no TPG service will label it as such, as far as i know.. i sold the three that i had years ago on eBay and got more than $200.00 or $300.00 each for them.. raw..
some years later, the guy who discovered it, a fellow R.c.c.-er.. who also ordered the first hour of the first day they went on sale, who also got three of them.. who sent the discovery coin to Alan, which resulted in the article below, sold me the discovery piece, which i still own, along with the issue of NN with the cover story..
i shot the picture below back in 2000 in a hurry, but i save everything, so i just enhanced and sharpened it a bit, so it should be readable.. the significant sentence stating:
"The status of the two different instances of die bounce is significantly different. The first occurs between the normal first and second strike AND IS THUS TECHNICALLY A PART OF THE MINTING PROCESS (emphasis mine).. the second occurs after the second strike.." ..
because Proof coins are struck twice, there was much debate over whether the doubling or tripling happened during the strike, between, or after the strike(s) due to die bounce.. the last i read, it was determined that it was tripling.. and happened both between the two strikes and after.. making it a legitimate error.. i forget all the gory details.. a search of Rec.collecting.coins via Google groups would turn up a bajillion postings about it.. i wasn't participating on these boreds in 1999, and don't even remember if they existed in 1999 so i don't know if it was discussed here..
in other words, IF it occurs DURING the Minting process (which this did).. then it's a legitimate Minting error.. if it occurs AFTER the second strike, it's die-bounce and NOT a legitimate Minting error.. even though the coin is still in the press during the die-bounce after the second strike.. these coins exhibit BOTH.. so it's actually tripling.. or not, depending on how you interpret what he wrote..
anyway, if any of you have any 1999 Proof SBAs, check them.. you don't need a loupe to see this.. and sorry to stray off-topic.. except to ask, Burnished "-W" ASEs are struck only once, aren't they?..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>Here's another jaw dropper:
RARE 2008 rev 2007 ERROR American Eagle DOUBLE DIE?
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-2008-rev-2007-ERROR-American-Eagle-DOUBLE-DIE_W0QQitemZ250259771978QQihZ015QQcategoryZ39488QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Any thoughts? >>
He reeled in a big ole sucker fish with that one. That doubling is on the master and appears on every 2008 SAE. 2007 had the same thing as did 2006.
The name is LEE!
This one an 07 Reverse
Here's the larger image of the 07 Reverse
The name is LEE!
EDIT: I just got this email from PCGS. This is in reponse to a question about when PCGS will include this coin in their registry.
Hello Tony
This policy allows all registrants working on modern sets ample time to obtain coins released by the mint during the year. For further information please refer to the “Rules” page at the following link.
http://pcgs.com/setregistry/rules.aspx .
Thank you
Jaye Woodward
Collectors Universe
Set Registry Coordinator
949-567-1234 ext. 295
So, it looks like it's not a matter of whether they're going to include this coin as part of their registry. It's now just a matter of time as to when they're going to do it.
<< <i>So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common? >>
Finding them without this doubling is the real rarity. Usually, the newer the die the more clear the doubling and the older the die, the mushier it gets but it's still there.
BTW, this also exists with the proofs.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common? >>
Finding them without this doubling is the real rarity. Usually, the newer the die the more clear the doubling and the older the die, the mushier it gets but it's still there.
BTW, this also exists with the proofs. >>
Thanks 19Lyds.
Two listings from same guy....exactly the same pics, and descriptions. Just titles have chanced from ETREMELY RARE to just RARE:
June 17th
June 1st
What you said from several weeks ago:
19Lyds
I don't know...how rare can this really be if he has two identical (assembly line) listings, just ready to go?
<< <i>Prices still holding well today! >>
the fact that prices have not dropped with the somewhat less interest.... bodes well for still higher prices
Below are the raw (searching "2007 reverse 2008 -ngc -pcgs") number of items sold and average sold price for the past two months and then below that, the past two weeks. Below all that is a pretty cool chart for NGC MS69 coins for the past two weeks, they have been crazy steady.
Past two months
Past two weeks
This is very interesting. For the past two weeks, NGC MS69 coins have been almost completely steady around $500.
<< <i>
<< <i>Prices still holding well today! >>
the fact that prices have not dropped with the somewhat less interest.... bodes well for still higher prices >>
well, you didn't elaborate on what you mean by "somewhat less interest".. so i don't know if you mean here, there, or somewhere else.. after nearly four thousand postings in this thread, there's not a whole lot left to say until / unless that FOIA request bears fruit.. but as a subscriber to both CW and NN, i can tell you that every weekly issue of both has more and more ads for the 08/07s.. some of them, full page.. most of them, boxes in regular multi-page spreads from all the usual suspects.. and every week, every display ad dealers' prices go up.. in both latest issues of CW and NN, Coast to Coast's ads now feature a box saying they're buying at $600.00 and selling at $675.00 (i assume for raws).. yesterday's latest CW had a full page ad from Chattanooga Coins for NGC MS70s (not ER).. for a few bucks shy of $1000.00.. with a three-payment layaway plan for folks who can't cough up a grand in one go..
going back just a couple weeks, the same dealers' ads had raws for under $300.00 (when eBay prices were already topping $500.00.. owing to the couple of weeks of lead time for a weekly publication..) .. many display ad dealers say "market is volatile - call for current price", many don't.. some say "limit 1" or "limit 2", some don't.. but these coins are still on a climb with no end in sight.. there are also a lot of letters to the Editor commenting on them appearing mainly in CW.. in other words, from my observations of what's going on with these magazines, there are FAR more ads for them and FAR more Editorial content about them than there was a month ago, and more a month ago than a month before that when they were discovered.. i have yet to see a single dealer drop his price in his display ad.. and from the looks of it, most of them have very few in stock.. i can't even remember the last time i saw Coast to Coast advertise a buy price for any particular coin or set in their ads..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Is it possible that a lot of the ebay buyers are actually brick and mortar dealers who are trying to sell to customers? I mean, how else are those customers going to get these if they don't go on ebay?
EDIT: Sorry, not Coast to Coast...was Paul Sims
<< <i>I called Coast to Coast last week. They were all out. Also, maybe we shouldn't use ebay as a way to determine total market demand. After all, I'd say that most people don't even think about going onto ebay to buy anything. For those folks who want any of these coins, it's either local or national dealers.
>>
maybe, maybe not.. there ARE many collectors who still don't use computers at all, and rely on magazines and mailed catalogs.. whether they're computerphobes or luddites who knows.. that's another discussion.. but in many cases, people rush to eBay before doing a bit of research, and pay double or triple for an item that they could buy from that item's mfr. for a fraction of what eBay sellers ask AND get for them.. i'll give you one example that has nothing to do with coins.. do an eBay search for Sony MDR-V6 headphones.. after using them for a few years, their "pleather" ear pads tend to start to flake and come apart, simply from age, and hundreds of hours of contact with one's hair and skin.. this is no reflection on the quality of the cans, as they are excellent headphones and i've been using the same pair for over twenty years.. but i've seen eBay sellers asking and GETTING $20.00 and up for a pair of genuine Sony replacement earpads for these headphones.. Sony has a parts site where you can buy the exact same ear pads, directly from them, for five bucks each.. with personal electronics and computer parts, eBay IS often cheaper - example - i just bought two sealed, double-packs of genuine Canon ink for my printer from an eBay seller for less than HALF what the Staples down the street charges for the exact same thing.. and Staples' price is exactly the same as Canon's.. no bargains there.. nevermind the five bucks worth of gasoline i'd have to burn to drive to Staples and back.. (since gasoline went over $4.00/gallon and is now pushing $5.00/gallon.. people are doing a LOT more shopping online and combining trips to everywhere)..
so there are two real-world personal examples of items that you'll typicaly pay more than double for on eBay than direct from the mfr., and another where you'll pay less than half on eBay than buying from the mfrs. or driving to a store..
are there people buying 08/07s from dealers?.. of course there are.. if not, the dealers would be dropping their prices, not raising them.. if the dealers can't get them or run out, where do you think they go to get more for their own customers?.. (rhetorical question)..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
edited to add: annoyed, only in the sense that, like one of my jr. high teachers told me....open ears, close mouth. Too much to learn here to simply bump threads.
Seems to be a connection with crappy pics and high prices realized.
Is it just me?
08eagle
I only put my name on the pictures because I didn't want someone getting these and using them to sell other coins. I don't think these are that rare, but I think that because other people here told me they were not rare.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So I take it that you guys are saying that these are extremely common? >>
Finding them without this doubling is the real rarity. Usually, the newer the die the more clear the doubling and the older the die, the mushier it gets but it's still there.
BTW, this also exists with the proofs. >>
Thanks 19Lyds.
Two listings from same guy....exactly the same pics, and descriptions. Just titles have chanced from ETREMELY RARE to just RARE:
June 17th
June 1st
What you said from several weeks ago:
19Lyds
I don't know...how rare can this really be if he has two identical (assembly line) listings, just ready to go? >>
You'll have to quote my post since our display pages are different and the link doesn;t work for me.
How rare can this guys doubled 08/07 rev SAE's be? Is that what you are asking?
All he needs to do is ride the hysteria wave and continue to put them up. Some fish will swim by a take the bait but it has nothing to do with rarity just what some may "perceive" as a rarity within this wave.
The name is LEE!
2008-W REVERSE OF 2007
Tripple Struck Date
MS70
First Strike
That would be kinda cool, no?
<< <i>I can see it now:
2008-W REVERSE OF 2007
Tripple Struck Date
MS70
First Strike
That would be kinda cool, no? >>
you mean Trippple?
don't forget, off-center, 180 degree reverse rotated, Extra Leaf, doubled trees, spiked head, cud, die crack, Superbird, Bugs Bunny, broadstruck on Kennedy Half planchet with missing clad layer and no reeding..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I can't believe you didn't include Speared Buffalo, jeezzz.
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
-69 63/171 36.8%
-70 38/171 22.2
Other 70/171 41.0
<< <i>171 auctions
-69 63/171 36.8%
-70 38/171 22.2
Other 70/171 41.0 >>
171 is on the lower end of the number of auctions we've seen, isn't it?
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
...
actually, our search categories are probably different.
<< <i>I wish I had acrystal ball to see what December's prices are going to be. It should be very interesting! >>
I just happen to have one here and it says that raws will be much higher and NGC69ER's will be slightly more. PCGS versions will command a 10-30% premium over NGC likes.
As far as actual numbers my crystal ball says to check back around December 15 for the update.
lol
<< <i>I just happen to have one here and it says that raws will be much higher >>
Makes no sense to me since I can convert a slabbed coin to "raw" in about 90 seconds. Plenty of "original mint packing" with my other 08/08's
Just a little update…I actually did email my contact at NGC, asking about the idea of double dies for the 2008 ASE 2007 Reverse. She said that there have been none reported so far. But she did say that if I think I’ve got one, I should submit it to them, telling them to look out for any double die action.
OK, well, out of the over 11,000 coins that have already been submitted to NGC, none have come back with “double die” status. Does that mean that the graders just didn’t notice when they were doing a regular grading? Or does it mean that the graders will only try to look for a double die when you actually ask them to look out for that feature? I asked her this, but I didn’t think she knew.
Anyway, there you go. I was also thinking….15 dies (reverse) 47,000 coins total. Does that also mean that there were15 obverse dies too (since it seems that the double die only seems to affect the obverse)? And if that’s the case…then that means that each die…47,000/15=3,133 coins. That means that if there are double dies….then there should be at least 3,133 of them, right? 3,133…that’s a lot of coins that nobody noticed (not even professional graders) were double dies….
You be the judge…who knows, it’s possible that the NGC graders have overlooked over 11,000 coins and let slip all the ones that were double die'd….but, like she said, if anyone suspects, then just submit one to them telling them to pay careful attention for double die imprint.