<< <i>And I thought I had alot of learning to do! Sheesh! >>
life is a continuous learning experience.. who's born knowing all of this stuff?.. the first time you filled out a PCGS submission form, did you do it at home and have to call and ask them questions, or do it at a show and need the assistance of a booth worker?.. or did you simply instantly understand all their labyrinthine pricing tiers and add-ons, and when you had to use multiple forms and all the different charges and surcharges and fees and read all the fine print on the back and just nail it?.. or did you submit through a dealer and let them do all the heavy lifting?..
i've filled out plenty of those forms and i've seen IRS forms that are easier to understand..
whether you've done tens of thousands of postings here, or thousands, or hundreds, you started out with one.. everybody did.. Numismatics is a hobby that can be approached on many levels.. and it has many subtleties to it, some of which are easy to grasp, some of which aren't.. no two collectors are the same, or have the same passions and goals and desires and budgets.. but it's a life-long learning experience..
i've been trying for years to find out how many 1995 Civil War sets the Mint sold in those cool "Union cases".. i asked every alleged expert i could find a way to contact.. no one knew.. "the Mint never published any numbers" was as close as i ever got to an answer.. and that came from someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of the hobby.. a prolific author of books and articles whose name you'd instantly recognize.. i figured hey, if he doesn't know, no one does..
then last week's CW showed up in the mail and it has a HUGE article covering ALL of the special packaging options for the entire Modern commemorative series, and blammo, there's the number for the Union Cases.. and even an explanation as to why they were called "Union" cases.. which had NOTHING to do with the Union vs. the confederacy.. so thanks to that article's author, i learned two things i didn't know..
there's nothing wrong with asking questions.. the only stupid questions are the ones that are never asked..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>So, if there are approximately 50,000, with 175 per day listed on eBay; how many days until all of these have been flipped ? >>
i think within 2 weeks auctions will drop by 50, down to 125. i see some buying raw then getting them graded by ngc. i think july 4 the fire works will begin on these.
<< <i>So, if there are approximately 50,000, with 175 per day listed on eBay; how many days until all of these have been flipped ? >>
and of however many have been listed on eBay, how many coins have been listed and re-listed multiple times, as the price goes up?.. how many raws got sold on eBay, got slabbed, got sold and bought and sold and bought and sold and bought and sold again as each guy along the line takes his $50.00 or $100.00 profit.. and the same coins in the same slabs keep riding the eBay merry-go-round over and over again?.. how many got sold raw and went into an ANACS or NGC slab, got bought, then went into a PCGS slab so someone could make a little more money selling it again?.. no one knows.. anyone have 1000 hour days where they can grab pictures of or jot down numbers from every slab that's been sold to see if it's later re-sold multiple times?.. who in their right mind is gonna do that?.. and what about those auctions for 10 or 20 at a time where the slab number is blocked out and the seller says "you'll get one just like this"?.. how many of THOSE got bought and sold multiple times?.. how many slabs got cracked open, the coin put back in its OGP and sold as raw again?.. did your head explode yet?..
which will happen first..
NGC 69s will start averaging $600.00 on eBay
or
a gallon of regular gasoline will be $5.00 or higher (national average).. i'm betting on the latter.. by the Fourth of July.. i'm also betting it won't come down after the Fourth of July..
this isn't a contest.. there aren't any prizes.. but one thin dime gets you into the tent to see the two-headed goat boy..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I have a very strong suspicsion that there's a lot of demand for this coin. I don't think I've ever seen anybody that outright says that they hate this coin. The only thing I've heard from people(who don't already own this coin) is that think it's over-priced.
OK, here's my prediction. Those same individuals actually do want to get this coin, but they're hoping that it'll "bottom out" before they actually commit. I think they all understand the rarity and the potential of this coin, but they're just hoping to jump on board, once the price settles. So what does that mean? I think that the price will drop, then, it's going to be followed by a bounce up, followed by a few more fluctuations, and then a steady appreciation as more and more people know of this coin...as it gets more publicity in the various publications, etc..
Just a little update…I actually did email my contact at NGC, asking about the idea of double dies for the 2008 ASE 2007 Reverse. She said that there have been none reported so far. But she did say that if I think I’ve got one, I should submit it to them, telling them to look out for any double die action
There were double dies of the reverse 07s on ebay already sold raw a few weeks ago.
<< <i>Just a little update…I actually did email my contact at NGC, asking about the idea of double dies for the 2008 ASE 2007 Reverse. She said that there have been none reported so far. But she did say that if I think I’ve got one, I should submit it to them, telling them to look out for any double die action
There were double dies of the reverse 07s on ebay already sold raw a few weeks ago. >>
Um...yeah, those links are what started this discussion. Please refer to this page:
After seeing those listings, I forwarded those and a pic from jessewvu to Coin World, ANA, PCGS and NGC.
My PCGS contact replied saying that he's not a grader and to submit any coins I have in order to get a professional opinion. My NGC contact said that they haven't seen one yet, but to submit my coin if I have a suspicion. Coin World and ANA still hasn't responsed.
So the question is, those double die coins sold on ebay, are they REALLY double dies? That's the million dollar question. And until someone actually submits a coin like that to either NGC or PCGS, no one can be absolutely sure. Unfortunately, I don't have any coins that match the look of those coins for me to submit.
But if NGC hasn't found anything in over 11,000 coins, then I have to just take a guess that there probably isn't one.
<< <i>So, if there are approximately 50,000, with 175 per day listed on eBay; how many days until all of these have been flipped ? >>
and of however many have been listed on eBay, how many coins have been listed and re-listed multiple times, as the price goes up?.. how many raws got sold on eBay, got slabbed, got sold and bought and sold and bought and sold and bought and sold again as each guy along the line takes his $50.00 or $100.00 profit.. and the same coins in the same slabs keep riding the eBay merry-go-round over and over again?.. how many got sold raw and went into an ANACS or NGC slab, got bought, then went into a PCGS slab so someone could make a little more money selling it again?.. no one knows.. anyone have 1000 hour days where they can grab pictures of or jot down numbers from every slab that's been sold to see if it's later re-sold multiple times?.. who in their right mind is gonna do that?.. and what about those auctions for 10 or 20 at a time where the slab number is blocked out and the seller says "you'll get one just like this"?.. how many of THOSE got bought and sold multiple times?.. how many slabs got cracked open, the coin put back in its OGP and sold as raw again?.. did your head explode yet?..
which will happen first..
NGC 69s will start averaging $600.00 on eBay
or
a gallon of regular gasoline will be $5.00 or higher (national average).. i'm betting on the latter.. by the Fourth of July.. i'm also betting it won't come down after the Fourth of July..
this isn't a contest.. there aren't any prizes.. but one thin dime gets you into the tent to see the two-headed goat boy.. >>
"A double-die is repeated over and over because it is a permanent error in the coin making die. A double strike is die chatter/bounce and is unique to each coin it occurs to.
Double Dies are cataloged and are considered collectible. A double strike or doubling is valueless.
Also, a double strike can be when the same planchet is under the die for two or more strikes. That is considered a mint error and can be valuable."
<< <i>Those were strike doubles. They are common as all heck on SAEs' >>
I've been saying that all along................................. >>
That's what led me to, wrongly, flame at him. No offense. I apologize. Sorry, but that was where I was coming from. I also happen to agree with TK's 64th post. edited for spelling
· I have a coin that shows doubling of the letters/numbers/design. Is it a Doubled Die?
Probably not. There are many types of doubling i.e.; Mechanical Doubling, Strike Doubling, Ejection Doubling, etc. that are very common and carry no numismatic value.
I do not buy these types of coins unless they are recognized Doubled Dies such as the 1955 Doubled Die cent, 1916 Doubled Die buffalo nickel, or the 1901 Doubled Die Reverse Morgan silver dollar.
"A double-die is repeated over and over because it is a permanent error in the coin making die. A double strike is die chatter/bounce and is unique to each coin it occurs to.
Double Dies are cataloged and are considered collectible. A double strike or doubling is valueless.
Also, a double strike can be when the same planchet is under the die for two or more strikes. That is considered a mint error and can be valuable." >>
Strike doubling/ejection doubling occurs when the coin gets ejected from the coining press. The coin is not struck twice. View it more along the lines of oscillation doubling as the ejection occurs. As coins are struck, they do heat heat up and a certain amount of oscillation occurs. When the oscillation comes in contact with the die, then strike doubling occurs. On the SAE's this strike doubling has occured farther up in the production process when the dies are made (double letters) then when strike doubling occurs (if and when that is) the tripling is the end result. The flat shelf like appearance is the first clue.
Consider this Eisenhower Dollar:
Nice doubling on that motto right? Too bad is ejection doubling.
I believe that if there were truely any doubled die SAE's that they would have been reported way before now or given this new reverse variety, would certainly have been reported and validated by leading experts in the country or which there are several. A true Doubled Die SAE would certainly bring 4 figure bids!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Strike doubling/ejection doubling occurs when the coin gets ejected from the coining press. The coin is not struck twice. View it more along the lines of oscillation doubling as the ejection occurs. As coins are struck, they do heat heat up and a certain amount of oscillation occurs. When the oscillation comes in contact with the die, then strike doubling occurs. On the SAE's this strike doubling has occured farther up in the production process when the dies are made (double letters) then when strike doubling occurs (if and when that is) the tripling is the end result. The flat shelf like appearance is the first clue. >>
Thanks 19Lyds, that was very informative. Just so that I can understand this:
-So, are you saying that double strike/ejection occurs when a planchet is struck (just once) and somehow, the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?
-Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked? If that's the case and the actual dies are doubling on them, wouldn't that mean that all the ASE coins are double die'd?
<< <i>Strike doubling/ejection doubling occurs when the coin gets ejected from the coining press. The coin is not struck twice. View it more along the lines of oscillation doubling as the ejection occurs. As coins are struck, they do heat heat up and a certain amount of oscillation occurs. When the oscillation comes in contact with the die, then strike doubling occurs. On the SAE's this strike doubling has occured farther up in the production process when the dies are made (double letters) then when strike doubling occurs (if and when that is) the tripling is the end result. The flat shelf like appearance is the first clue. >>
Thanks 19Lyds, that was very informative. Just so that I can understand this:
-So, are you saying that double strike/ejection occurs when a planchet is struck (just once) and somehow, the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?
-Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked? If that's the case and the actual dies are doubling on them, wouldn't that mean that all the ASE coins are double die'd?
Again, thanks for your explanations. >>
"the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?" No, when the die moves away from the struck coin.
"Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked?" No, the process for making dies is what is called a single squeeze where the master hub gets pressed into the soft (annealed) blank die. Somewhere with in this process the "step" doubling is occuring.
These are not true Doubled Dies regardless of how you try to justify it.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Thanks 19Lyds, that was very informative. Just so that I can understand this:
-So, are you saying that double strike/ejection occurs when a planchet is struck (just once) and somehow, the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?
-Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked? If that's the case and the actual dies are doubling on them, wouldn't that mean that all the ASE coins are double die'd?
Again, thanks for your explanations. >>
"the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?" No, when the die moves away from the struck coin.
"Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked?" No, the process for making dies is what is called a single squeeze where the master hub gets pressed into the soft (annealed) blank die. Somewhere with in this process the "step" doubling is occuring.
These are not true Doubled Dies regardless of how you try to justify it. >>
I think I get it now. Thanks again 19Lyds!
Boy, now I feel really sorry for those 2 poor souls that actually bought those "double die" 2008 ASE Rev 2007.
<< <i>I don't know how this guy gets away without pictures or cert #'s in his listings, guess that's not required anymore...link >>
i thought eBay, besides banning all but PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, and NCS slabs (is that ban still in effect?).. also required the entire front and back of the slab to be visible, INCLUDING the holygram.. have they changed that too?..
yesterday i found an auction where someone had recycled TeleTrade photos, and as you know, TeleTrade images the front and back of each slab they sell, but they put their own logo over the entire hologram area.. so the seller simply cropped their logo off, rather than shooting the entire Reverse of the slab so the hologram was visible..
and what about bulk auctions for "identical" coins where one is pictured with the serial number blocked out and the verbiage says something like "you'll get one just like this, serial numbers will vary".. they haven't banned that, and yet you can't eBay a SEGS slab.. SEGS is not a bottom-feeder..
for a while, entering an NGC certiication number resulted in NGC's pop report magically appearing on an eBay auction page.. now that's gone away.. or whatever checkbox made it appear has gone away..
what the heck ARE the rules this week as to which flavors of slabs eBay blesses, which they ban, and how they have to be imaged?..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I received 5 2008/08 SAE's last week and noticed some differences in the packaging compared to the 2008/rev07's I received in April. The new boxes are smaller than the 2008/rev07 boxes. They are 3-11/16" x 2-15/16" vs 3-13/16 x 3" on the rev07's. The newer boxes have the barcode on the bottom of the box and the rev07 box has the barcode on the top edge of the box cover. The bar codes have the same # but are different sizes and layout. I'm not sure this means anything but perhaps they switched packaging when the error was discovered....
Do you think that any of the grading services, ie, SGS would certify my 2008/rev08 with a small box (smbx) designation??
it's already been discussed and photographed in excruciating detail.. just scroll back a thousand postings or so.. the box she'a no make no nevermind.. they're using two very slightly different blue boxes.. maybe they came from two different box-makers in Armpit, Arkansas, or Chung King China.. who knows.. but the slightly different size of the box and the position of the barcode stock label on the bottom has been documented here to make no difference as to what flavor of 2008-W ASE is inside.. (no offense intended to anyone who lives in Armpit, Arkansas..) ..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>Do you think that any of the grading services, ie, SGS would certify my 2008/rev08 with a small box (smbx) designation??
KP >>
Again, this was talked about in detail with lots of pictures. I wish there were a way to search within a post to see what was already talked about. If they only had an option to view ALL posts, not just 10, 25, 100, or whatever the options are.
(no offense intended to anyone who lives in Armpit, Arkansas..) ..
From A'hole GA, Armpit Arkansas would be moving up!
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
2008/07s continue to attract a lot of bidders on the bay..prices consolidating after sharp price runups Our coin club ....after selling out over $$ 100,000 ++ of the 2008/07s in the last week of May..has begun to purchase them again ..expecting still higher prices
Comments
<< <i>And I thought I had alot of learning to do! Sheesh!
life is a continuous learning experience.. who's born knowing all of this stuff?.. the first time you filled out a PCGS submission form, did you do it at home and have to call and ask them questions, or do it at a show and need the assistance of a booth worker?.. or did you simply instantly understand all their labyrinthine pricing tiers and add-ons, and when you had to use multiple forms and all the different charges and surcharges and fees and read all the fine print on the back and just nail it?.. or did you submit through a dealer and let them do all the heavy lifting?..
i've filled out plenty of those forms and i've seen IRS forms that are easier to understand..
whether you've done tens of thousands of postings here, or thousands, or hundreds, you started out with one.. everybody did.. Numismatics is a hobby that can be approached on many levels.. and it has many subtleties to it, some of which are easy to grasp, some of which aren't.. no two collectors are the same, or have the same passions and goals and desires and budgets.. but it's a life-long learning experience..
i've been trying for years to find out how many 1995 Civil War sets the Mint sold in those cool "Union cases".. i asked every alleged expert i could find a way to contact.. no one knew.. "the Mint never published any numbers" was as close as i ever got to an answer.. and that came from someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of the hobby.. a prolific author of books and articles whose name you'd instantly recognize.. i figured hey, if he doesn't know, no one does..
then last week's CW showed up in the mail and it has a HUGE article covering ALL of the special packaging options for the entire Modern commemorative series, and blammo, there's the number for the Union Cases.. and even an explanation as to why they were called "Union" cases.. which had NOTHING to do with the Union vs. the confederacy.. so thanks to that article's author, i learned two things i didn't know..
there's nothing wrong with asking questions.. the only stupid questions are the ones that are never asked..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>So, if there are approximately 50,000, with 175 per day listed on eBay; how many days until all of these have been flipped ? >>
i think within 2 weeks auctions will drop by 50, down to 125. i see some buying raw then getting them graded by ngc. i think july 4 the fire works will begin on these.
-69 71/195 36.4%
-70 45/195 23.1
Other 79/195 40.5
<< <i>So, if there are approximately 50,000, with 175 per day listed on eBay; how many days until all of these have been flipped ? >>
and of however many have been listed on eBay, how many coins have been listed and re-listed multiple times, as the price goes up?.. how many raws got sold on eBay, got slabbed, got sold and bought and sold and bought and sold and bought and sold again as each guy along the line takes his $50.00 or $100.00 profit.. and the same coins in the same slabs keep riding the eBay merry-go-round over and over again?.. how many got sold raw and went into an ANACS or NGC slab, got bought, then went into a PCGS slab so someone could make a little more money selling it again?.. no one knows.. anyone have 1000 hour days where they can grab pictures of or jot down numbers from every slab that's been sold to see if it's later re-sold multiple times?.. who in their right mind is gonna do that?.. and what about those auctions for 10 or 20 at a time where the slab number is blocked out and the seller says "you'll get one just like this"?.. how many of THOSE got bought and sold multiple times?.. how many slabs got cracked open, the coin put back in its OGP and sold as raw again?.. did your head explode yet?..
which will happen first..
NGC 69s will start averaging $600.00 on eBay
or
a gallon of regular gasoline will be $5.00 or higher (national average)..
i'm betting on the latter.. by the Fourth of July..
i'm also betting it won't come down after the Fourth of July..
this isn't a contest.. there aren't any prizes.. but one thin dime gets you into the tent to see the two-headed goat boy..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
OK, here's my prediction. Those same individuals actually do want to get this coin, but they're hoping that it'll "bottom out" before they actually commit. I think they all understand the rarity and the potential of this coin, but they're just hoping to jump on board, once the price settles. So what does that mean? I think that the price will drop, then, it's going to be followed by a bounce up, followed by a few more fluctuations, and then a steady appreciation as more and more people know of this coin...as it gets more publicity in the various publications, etc..
Just a little update…I actually did email my contact at NGC, asking about the idea of double dies for the 2008 ASE 2007 Reverse. She said that there have been none reported so far. But she did say that if I think I’ve got one, I should submit it to them, telling them to look out for any double die action
There were double dies of the reverse 07s on ebay already sold raw a few weeks ago.
Box of 20
Ren
<< <i>Just a little update…I actually did email my contact at NGC, asking about the idea of double dies for the 2008 ASE 2007 Reverse. She said that there have been none reported so far. But she did say that if I think I’ve got one, I should submit it to them, telling them to look out for any double die action
There were double dies of the reverse 07s on ebay already sold raw a few weeks ago. >>
Um...yeah, those links are what started this discussion. Please refer to this page:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=652760&STARTPAGE=197
After seeing those listings, I forwarded those and a pic from jessewvu to Coin World, ANA, PCGS and NGC.
My PCGS contact replied saying that he's not a grader and to submit any coins I have in order to get a professional opinion. My NGC contact said that they haven't seen one yet, but to submit my coin if I have a suspicion. Coin World and ANA still hasn't responsed.
So the question is, those double die coins sold on ebay, are they REALLY double dies? That's the million dollar question. And until someone actually submits a coin like that to either NGC or PCGS, no one can be absolutely sure. Unfortunately, I don't have any coins that match the look of those coins for me to submit.
But if NGC hasn't found anything in over 11,000 coins, then I have to just take a guess that there probably isn't one.
<< <i>
<< <i>So, if there are approximately 50,000, with 175 per day listed on eBay; how many days until all of these have been flipped ? >>
and of however many have been listed on eBay, how many coins have been listed and re-listed multiple times, as the price goes up?.. how many raws got sold on eBay, got slabbed, got sold and bought and sold and bought and sold and bought and sold again as each guy along the line takes his $50.00 or $100.00 profit.. and the same coins in the same slabs keep riding the eBay merry-go-round over and over again?.. how many got sold raw and went into an ANACS or NGC slab, got bought, then went into a PCGS slab so someone could make a little more money selling it again?.. no one knows.. anyone have 1000 hour days where they can grab pictures of or jot down numbers from every slab that's been sold to see if it's later re-sold multiple times?.. who in their right mind is gonna do that?.. and what about those auctions for 10 or 20 at a time where the slab number is blocked out and the seller says "you'll get one just like this"?.. how many of THOSE got bought and sold multiple times?.. how many slabs got cracked open, the coin put back in its OGP and sold as raw again?.. did your head explode yet?..
which will happen first..
NGC 69s will start averaging $600.00 on eBay
or
a gallon of regular gasoline will be $5.00 or higher (national average)..
i'm betting on the latter.. by the Fourth of July..
i'm also betting it won't come down after the Fourth of July..
this isn't a contest.. there aren't any prizes.. but one thin dime gets you into the tent to see the two-headed goat boy.. >>
<< <i>Those were strike doubles. They are common as all heck on SAEs' >>
I've been saying that all along.................................
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>Those were strike doubles. They are common as all heck on SAEs' >>
I've been saying that all along................................. >>
I thought that the only SAE's that gets more than one strike are the proofs.
Also, you wouldn't happen to know how I could tell the difference would you?
Never mind:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060825230157AApczb5
"A double-die is repeated over and over because it is a permanent error in the coin making die. A double strike is die chatter/bounce and is unique to each coin it occurs to.
Double Dies are cataloged and are considered collectible. A double strike or doubling is valueless.
Also, a double strike can be when the same planchet is under the die for two or more strikes. That is considered a mint error and can be valuable."
<< <i>
<< <i>Those were strike doubles. They are common as all heck on SAEs' >>
I've been saying that all along................................. >>
I also happen to agree with TK's 64th post.
edited for spelling
http://www.fredweinberg.com/faq.html#doubledie
· I have a coin that shows doubling of the letters/numbers/design. Is it a Doubled Die?
Probably not. There are many types of doubling i.e.; Mechanical Doubling, Strike Doubling, Ejection Doubling, etc. that are very common and carry no numismatic value.
I do not buy these types of coins unless they are recognized Doubled Dies such as the 1955 Doubled Die cent, 1916 Doubled Die buffalo nickel, or the 1901 Doubled Die Reverse Morgan silver dollar.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Those were strike doubles. They are common as all heck on SAEs' >>
I've been saying that all along................................. >>
I thought that the only SAE's that gets more than one strike are the proofs.
Also, you wouldn't happen to know how I could tell the difference would you?
Never mind:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060825230157AApczb5
"A double-die is repeated over and over because it is a permanent error in the coin making die. A double strike is die chatter/bounce and is unique to each coin it occurs to.
Double Dies are cataloged and are considered collectible. A double strike or doubling is valueless.
Also, a double strike can be when the same planchet is under the die for two or more strikes. That is considered a mint error and can be valuable." >>
Strike doubling/ejection doubling occurs when the coin gets ejected from the coining press. The coin is not struck twice. View it more along the lines of oscillation doubling as the ejection occurs. As coins are struck, they do heat heat up and a certain amount of oscillation occurs. When the oscillation comes in contact with the die, then strike doubling occurs. On the SAE's this strike doubling has occured farther up in the production process when the dies are made (double letters) then when strike doubling occurs (if and when that is) the tripling is the end result. The flat shelf like appearance is the first clue.
Consider this Eisenhower Dollar:
Nice doubling on that motto right? Too bad is ejection doubling.
I believe that if there were truely any doubled die SAE's that they would have been reported way before now or given this new reverse variety, would certainly have been reported and validated by leading experts in the country or which there are several. A true Doubled Die SAE would certainly bring 4 figure bids!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Strike doubling/ejection doubling occurs when the coin gets ejected from the coining press. The coin is not struck twice. View it more along the lines of oscillation doubling as the ejection occurs. As coins are struck, they do heat heat up and a certain amount of oscillation occurs. When the oscillation comes in contact with the die, then strike doubling occurs. On the SAE's this strike doubling has occured farther up in the production process when the dies are made (double letters) then when strike doubling occurs (if and when that is) the tripling is the end result. The flat shelf like appearance is the first clue.
>>
Thanks 19Lyds, that was very informative. Just so that I can understand this:
-So, are you saying that double strike/ejection occurs when a planchet is struck (just once) and somehow, the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?
-Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked? If that's the case and the actual dies are doubling on them, wouldn't that mean that all the ASE coins are double die'd?
Again, thanks for your explanations.
<< <i>
<< <i>Strike doubling/ejection doubling occurs when the coin gets ejected from the coining press. The coin is not struck twice. View it more along the lines of oscillation doubling as the ejection occurs. As coins are struck, they do heat heat up and a certain amount of oscillation occurs. When the oscillation comes in contact with the die, then strike doubling occurs. On the SAE's this strike doubling has occured farther up in the production process when the dies are made (double letters) then when strike doubling occurs (if and when that is) the tripling is the end result. The flat shelf like appearance is the first clue.
>>
Thanks 19Lyds, that was very informative. Just so that I can understand this:
-So, are you saying that double strike/ejection occurs when a planchet is struck (just once) and somehow, the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?
-Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked? If that's the case and the actual dies are doubling on them, wouldn't that mean that all the ASE coins are double die'd?
Again, thanks for your explanations. >>
"the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?" No, when the die moves away from the struck coin.
"Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked?" No, the process for making dies is what is called a single squeeze where the master hub gets pressed into the soft (annealed) blank die. Somewhere with in this process the "step" doubling is occuring.
These are not true Doubled Dies regardless of how you try to justify it.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Thanks 19Lyds, that was very informative. Just so that I can understand this:
-So, are you saying that double strike/ejection occurs when a planchet is struck (just once) and somehow, the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?
-Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked? If that's the case and the actual dies are doubling on them, wouldn't that mean that all the ASE coins are double die'd?
Again, thanks for your explanations. >>
"the planchet moves(osillates) while the die presses down on it?" No, when the die moves away from the struck coin.
"Also, you mentioned that with the SAE's when the dies are made, the dies get double striked?" No, the process for making dies is what is called a single squeeze where the master hub gets pressed into the soft (annealed) blank die. Somewhere with in this process the "step" doubling is occuring.
These are not true Doubled Dies regardless of how you try to justify it. >>
I think I get it now. Thanks again 19Lyds!
Boy, now I feel really sorry for those 2 poor souls that actually bought those "double die" 2008 ASE Rev 2007.
<< <i>I don't know how this guy gets away without pictures or cert #'s in his listings, guess that's not required anymore...link >>
i thought eBay, besides banning all but PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, and NCS slabs (is that ban still in effect?).. also required the entire front and back of the slab to be visible, INCLUDING the holygram.. have they changed that too?..
yesterday i found an auction where someone had recycled TeleTrade photos, and as you know, TeleTrade images the front and back of each slab they sell, but they put their own logo over the entire hologram area.. so the seller simply cropped their logo off, rather than shooting the entire Reverse of the slab so the hologram was visible..
and what about bulk auctions for "identical" coins where one is pictured with the serial number blocked out and the verbiage says something like "you'll get one just like this, serial numbers will vary".. they haven't banned that, and yet you can't eBay a SEGS slab.. SEGS is not a bottom-feeder..
for a while, entering an NGC certiication number resulted in NGC's pop report magically appearing on an eBay auction page.. now that's gone away.. or whatever checkbox made it appear has gone away..
what the heck ARE the rules this week as to which flavors of slabs eBay blesses, which they ban, and how they have to be imaged?..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
and receiving 07 reverses.....
other claims 5-27 order=4/4
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
The new boxes are smaller than the 2008/rev07 boxes. They are 3-11/16" x 2-15/16" vs 3-13/16 x 3" on the rev07's. The newer boxes have the barcode on the bottom of the box and the rev07 box has the barcode on the top edge of the box cover. The bar codes have the same # but are different sizes and layout. I'm not sure this means anything but perhaps they switched packaging when the error was discovered....
Do you think that any of the grading services, ie, SGS would certify my 2008/rev08 with a small box (smbx) designation??
KP
and....the SGS reference shoud have a "wink" next to it
(no offense intended to anyone who lives in Armpit, Arkansas..) ..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>
Do you think that any of the grading services, ie, SGS would certify my 2008/rev08 with a small box (smbx) designation??
KP >>
<< <i>Do you think that any of the grading services, ie, SGS would certify my 2008/rev08 with a small box (smbx) designation??
KP >>
From A'hole GA, Armpit Arkansas would be moving up!
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
You have a pm............
Deal or no deal??
Our coin club ....after selling out over $$ 100,000 ++ of the 2008/07s in the last week of May..has begun to purchase them again ..expecting still higher prices
is there an award for 4k??
I could do 5-4-3-2-1 right now, but......I'm a gentleman poster.
Who will steal the 4k post???????
Good coin now and in future. Just wait