<< <i>Another question to ponder, since these are "Burnished Collector Coins" wouldn't quality control probably have pulled some, lowering the number some unknown amount more? >>
Yes but we can never know how many beacsue the mint would not have known which die variety they were pulling.
<< <i>how many times does this make that someone has reported ordering the 2008-Ws (in hopes of getting you know what).. and opening the box to find opened capsules with coins rolling around?.. doesn't this just reinforce the theory that the guys in Memphis were furiously tearing through boxes looking for the error coins and sloppily replacing them?.. >>
No Harv. SAE have been coming out of their capsules since the 2006 20th Anniversary Sets.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Did anyone else notice that the mint double counted die # 7328200? It is listed twice as having struck 198 coins and then with 12,492
Humm. Hadn't noticed that Mint error. So die 738200 could have struck only 66 pieces or 4166. Or it could, I guess, have been reloaded and cranked out 4232 coins total.
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Another thought . . . This looks like "raw data" taken from an impression counter on the press. Wonder how many of these impressions produced good quality pieces & how many were rejected/scrapped.
Bet these figures are also recorded somewhere in the Mints computers as they probably keep close tabs on the #/% of quality products produced vs scrap. I know we do on our manfacturing lines.
Regards, John
Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set: 1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S. Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Halfhunter...my take on the two sets of numbers for the repeated die: 2 shifts' worth? Just a shot...although I do think they claim 3 shifts' production, right?
BTW: Does anyone know the reject rate from a typical run of ASEs? It shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from there. For instance: If a "normal" yield of 90% is made (10% rejected), then the number would be reduced by 4,6xx or so.
Then, if we can determine the reject rate from grubby paws and mishaps in shipping that destroyed more coins, say, 1% (43x or so).
Given these "guesses" I'd expect the pop that actually got out would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 42,000.
THEN, what about returns, mis-labeled or rejected packages returned to the Mint (fulfillment center), etc.
The mind boggles...and it could all have been solved by a more complete and honest answer from the Mint...oh wait. Never mind about the honest part...
Oh, and I'm sure all of the above was already calculated in this thread...sorry to repeat or step on anyone's toes.
<< <i>Did anyone else notice that the mint double counted die # 7328200? It is listed twice as having struck 198 coins and then with 12,492
Humm. Hadn't noticed that Mint error. So die 738200 could have struck only 66 pieces or 4166. Or it could, I guess, have been reloaded and cranked out 4232 coins total.
Regards, John >>
Good catch. I sorta checked the die numbers myself and didn't even notice!
Just another question to put in my letter to the Mint... you guys are right...this has raised more questions than it answered for sure.
Oh well, I don't mind getting tougher with the Mint
<< <i>Oh, dang it! I just noticed: I'm a "Senior!"
Now, should I be offended? Happy? Sad? >>
you now get a 22.0321902% discount on US Mint Happy Meals plus a free ice cream cone..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I've been here the whole time. I agree that we should send this information to all of the major publications, TPG's, and Coin Collecting organiztions. At the very least, it'll provide much a much stronger basis for the total mintage of this coin. This would really help to provide its legitimacy. Also, it might be a good way to get some spotlight on this coin again. (However, if possible, it'd be nice to get the number actuall distributed as well).
And I'm just curious, are the "triple strike errors" (that Jessewvu has) considered rare and significant?
I'm actually really glad to see that the price of this coin has really been holding steady for...how long has it been now? Over a month? And the MS70's have actually been going up.
<< <i>Did anyone else notice that the mint double counted die # 7328200? It is listed twice as having struck 198 coins and then with 12,492 >>
I noticed it when I sorted my numbers (I sorted them to find exactly that). I guess they either started the die on a late shift (it looks as though it is right in the middle of the dies) and used it in another, OR they had a problem, fixed it and continued.
Why couldn't they have pulled die # 7328200 (maybe for some production issue), swapped it out, ran the next die, and then replaced that die AGAIN with die # 7328200?
That's because people paid too much for them to start with and are trying to flip them for a profit before the time is right. Just watch the PCGS prices to see what direction they are going to take.
One question I have. They say that the die counts are for the 2008-W Burnished Silver American Eagles. They do not indicate whether the dies are of the 2007 design or 2008. Is this just a list of ALL dies used during a run where the reverse of 2007 coins were found?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>One question I have. They say that the die counts are for the 2008-W Burnished Silver American Eagles. They do not indicate whether the dies are of the 2007 design or 2008. Is this just a list of ALL dies used during a run where the reverse of 2007 coins were found? >>
Hmmmm......At first I said "Duh" after reading the above BUT in re-reading the response it NEVER mentions anything about the different reverse just 2008 Silver Eagles produced at the West Point Mint. What the freak good does this do?????? We're assuming it's the 08/07 coin
Wow, looking at that listing makes me want to drink Tequila and sacrifice a person to the gods. >>
the seller's verbiage "Full satin-like mint luster. Well struck. Pleasing surfaces. The ultimate certified grade." is the EXACT wording TeleTrade uses for MS70 Moderns.. i'd bet you dimes to donuts (if I had any donuts.. hey.. if we had some eggs, we could make ham and eggs.. if we had any ham..) .. he's flipping a coin he won there.. not that there's anything wrong with that, but anyone who uses TeleTrade has seen that same wording a bajillion dimes.. err.. times.. and besides, it's "Hare to get" ..
always proofread so you don't any words..
Harv
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I see people are still gambling away thier money for those sealed boxes of 5.Has anyone heard of anyone finding any reverses in those boxes?I saw one feebback where the guy said he opened up the box and found 5 proofs,he was not happy.
<< <i>One question I have. They say that the die counts are for the 2008-W Burnished Silver American Eagles. They do not indicate whether the dies are of the 2007 design or 2008. Is this just a list of ALL dies used during a run where the reverse of 2007 coins were found? >>
Hmmmm......At first I said "Duh" after reading the above BUT in re-reading the response it NEVER mentions anything about the different reverse just 2008 Silver Eagles produced at the West Point Mint. What the freak good does this do?????? We're assuming it's the 08/07 coin
Am I also reading this wrong???? >>
I guess it depends on how the original question was asked but they sure don't make that clear in the response. Maybe they just do not know which die # has what design and are giving a number that is the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE NUMBER from the totals of the run. The 08/07 coins may be a much smaller subset of this production run.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I see people are still gambling away thier money for those sealed boxes of 5.Has anyone heard of anyone finding any reverses in those boxes?I saw one feebback where the guy said he opened up the box and found 5 proofs,he was not happy. >>
That's a typical "roll the dice" auction. A few are legitimate, but most are "sealed" early mint sets, "OBW" '69-S Lincoln rolls, rolls with a '09-S on one end, etc. The price usually reflects the risk the bidders are willing to take. Not much chance of scoring big, but some enjoy scratching a lottery ticket, so to speak.
I see people are still gambling away thier money for those sealed boxes of 5.Has anyone heard of anyone finding any reverses in those boxes?I saw one feebback where the guy said he opened up the box and found 5 proofs,he was not happy.
If there was any possibility of an 08/07 reverse in these boxes, they would have been opened. I'd say the chances of finding one are next to nil and maybe nil. Another way for creative sellers to scam foolhardy buyers.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
In the FOIA filing with the mint, was the question asked as to how many 2008 W with reverse of 07 silver eagles were melted, reclaimed from pre-shipped packages or destroyed? Re-filing using the die numbers we now have could be a way to direct the search. They have to account for this somewhere.
Either the mint pulled a lot of these before they got out or there are many sealed boxes out there with owners who do not know of this discovery. Another possibility is many are still out there awaiting discovery in small batches of 5 or 10 or being horded.
Either way, all the above scenarios make for a very scarce issue and time will treat these coins well in my opinion.
FWIW, I noted earlier that the registry didn't register a price on these coins. It has now updated, and a PCGS FS 69 is priced at $600.00 on my registry set now.
<< <i>In the FOIA filing with the mint, was the question asked as to how many 2008 W with reverse of 07 silver eagles were melted, reclaimed from pre-shipped packages or destroyed? >>
Yes, the question was asked and not answered. I'm hoping to draft my response to the Mint this weekend in the hopes of getting them to provide more information that we thought we were paying for.
<< <i>If they charge you more money, we will help you pay. Let us know! We need to get to the bottom of this. >>
The Mint knows the ballpark figure . but ain't gonna let it out ......all coins produced , are put into bins that have a lot number.. if they know the dies # , when the 07 reverses were changed , then, all coins made could be traced back to the lot numbers made of 2008/07. My guess and money , is that many of the 2008/07 coins shipped out to the packer , and the Mint caught what was still in the Mint warehouse..which is why the Mint can't know a specific mintage of 2008/07..so , it isn't 47,000 and judging the supply contraction on the bay..20,000 or less is a ball park # ........save your money.................. the MARKET WILL TELL THE TRUTH
<< <i>If they charge you more money, we will help you pay. Let us know! We need to get to the bottom of this >>
Since they did not answer the inquiry completely I think you have a case for the question of how many coins actually were released to the public. The mintage may be 46k + but how many coins made it out of the mint?????????? Minor detail......
Just a hypothetical question and to keep the topic on topic and ongoing...I don't have one so lets set that record straight. If anybody here offered to buy one of your PCGS MS70 FS ASE 08/07 reverse for 2k will you be selling or not?
<< <i>Just a hypothetical question and to keep the topic on topic and ongoing...I don't have one so lets set that record straight. If anybody here offered to buy one of your PCGS MS70 FS ASE 08/07 reverse for 2k will you be selling or not? >>
I would not sell my 08 rev 07 PCGS first strike ms70 for $5000 at this point. There are only 167 of them right now and I sure don't see many more than that in the future.
Comments
<< <i>Another question to ponder, since these are "Burnished Collector Coins" wouldn't quality control probably have pulled some, lowering the number some unknown amount more? >>
Yes but we can never know how many beacsue the mint would not have known which die variety they were pulling.
<< <i>how many times does this make that someone has reported ordering the 2008-Ws (in hopes of getting you know what).. and opening the box to find opened capsules with coins rolling around?.. doesn't this just reinforce the theory that the guys in Memphis were furiously tearing through boxes looking for the error coins and sloppily replacing them?.. >>
No Harv. SAE have been coming out of their capsules since the 2006 20th Anniversary Sets.
The name is LEE!
Humm. Hadn't noticed that Mint error. So die 738200 could have struck only 66 pieces or 4166. Or it could, I guess, have been reloaded and cranked out 4232 coins total.
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Bet these figures are also recorded somewhere in the Mints computers as they probably keep close tabs on the #/% of quality products produced vs scrap. I know we do on our manfacturing lines.
Regards, John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
BTW: Does anyone know the reject rate from a typical run of ASEs? It shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate from there. For instance: If a "normal" yield of 90% is made (10% rejected), then the number would be reduced by 4,6xx or so.
Then, if we can determine the reject rate from grubby paws and mishaps in shipping that destroyed more coins, say, 1% (43x or so).
Given these "guesses" I'd expect the pop that actually got out would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 42,000.
THEN, what about returns, mis-labeled or rejected packages returned to the Mint (fulfillment center), etc.
The mind boggles...and it could all have been solved by a more complete and honest answer from the Mint...oh wait. Never mind about the honest part...
Oh, and I'm sure all of the above was already calculated in this thread...sorry to repeat or step on anyone's toes.
<< <i>Did anyone else notice that the mint double counted die # 7328200? It is listed twice as having struck 198 coins and then with 12,492
Humm. Hadn't noticed that Mint error. So die 738200 could have struck only 66 pieces or 4166. Or it could, I guess, have been reloaded and cranked out 4232 coins total.
Regards, John >>
Good catch. I sorta checked the die numbers myself and didn't even notice!
Just another question to put in my letter to the Mint...
you guys are right...this has raised more questions than it answered for sure.
Oh well, I don't mind getting tougher with the Mint
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
By the way, the price guide now shows values for these coins.
JH
Proof Buffalo Registry Set
Capped Bust Quarters Registry Set
Proof Walking Liberty Halves Registry Set
Now, should I be offended? Happy? Sad?
<< <i>Oh, dang it! I just noticed: I'm a "Senior!"
Now, should I be offended? Happy? Sad? >>
you now get a 22.0321902% discount on US Mint Happy Meals plus a free ice cream cone..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
So there may or may not be up to a a 4200 coin error on the report?
<< <i>Hey,Whatever happened to Tony? >>
I've been here the whole time. I agree that we should send this information to all of the major publications, TPG's, and Coin Collecting organiztions. At the very least, it'll provide much a much stronger basis for the total mintage of this coin. This would really help to provide its legitimacy. Also, it might be a good way to get some spotlight on this coin again. (However, if possible, it'd be nice to get the number actuall distributed as well).
And I'm just curious, are the "triple strike errors" (that Jessewvu has) considered rare and significant?
I'm actually really glad to see that the price of this coin has really been holding steady for...how long has it been now? Over a month? And the MS70's have actually been going up.
<< <i>Between the dies that produced zero strikes and the die that is listed twice, you have the answer to the 18 dies but only 15 used question.
By the way, the price guide now shows values for these coins.
JH >>
Which price guide? And for how much?
<< <i>
<< <i>Between the dies that produced zero strikes and the die that is listed twice, you have the answer to the 18 dies but only 15 used question.
By the way, the price guide now shows values for these coins.
JH >>
>Which price guide? And for how much? >>
<
The PCGS price guide.
<< <i>Did anyone else notice that the mint double counted die # 7328200? It is listed twice as having struck 198 coins and then with 12,492 >>
I noticed it when I sorted my numbers (I sorted them to find exactly that). I guess they either started the die on a late shift (it looks as though it is right in the middle of the dies) and used it in another, OR they had a problem, fixed it and continued.
first strike 69 $600 1500 graded
first strike 70 $2500 166 graded
reg strike 69 $520 1090 graded
reg strike 70 $2000 77 graded
How about those numbers for a new issue!
<< <i>PCGS price guide numbers
first strike 69 $600
first strike 70 $2500
reg strike 69 $520
reg strike 70 $2000
>How about those numbers for a new issue! >>
<
Let's just hope the numbers keep going up for those of us hanging on to ours.
EAGLE S$1 REVERSE OF 2007........................... MS 5884 1 3 2925 2955
2008 W EAGLE REV OF 07 S$1 EARLY RELEASES MS 6843 1 3752 3090
<< <i>Over half the listings are buy it now and they sure haven't been jumping off the shelf today >>
Here's one that's going pretty well....with a day to go
Ebay
<< <i>
<< <i>Over half the listings are buy it now and they sure haven't been jumping off the shelf today >>
Here's one that's going pretty well....with a day to go
Ebay >>
Wow, looking at that listing makes me want to drink Tequila and sacrifice a person to the gods.
<< <i>
<< <i>Over half the listings are buy it now and they sure haven't been jumping off the shelf today >>
Here's one that's going pretty well....with a day to go
Ebay >>
Shouldn't that sell for $2,000?
Thats what the price guide says.............
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Shouldn't that sell for $2,000? >>
Tell ya what.....I have more than a few I'll let you steal from me for $1500 each
(and free shipping!!!!)
<< <i>One question I have. They say that the die counts are for the 2008-W Burnished Silver American Eagles. They do not indicate whether the dies are of the 2007 design or 2008. Is this just a list of ALL dies used during a run where the reverse of 2007 coins were found? >>
Hmmmm......At first I said "Duh" after reading the above BUT in re-reading the response it NEVER mentions anything about the different reverse just 2008 Silver Eagles produced at the West Point Mint. What the freak good does this do?????? We're assuming it's the 08/07 coin
Am I also reading this wrong????
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Over half the listings are buy it now and they sure haven't been jumping off the shelf today >>
Here's one that's going pretty well....with a day to go
Ebay >>
Wow, looking at that listing makes me want to drink Tequila and sacrifice a person to the gods. >>
the seller's verbiage "Full satin-like mint luster. Well struck. Pleasing surfaces. The ultimate certified grade." is the EXACT wording TeleTrade uses for MS70 Moderns.. i'd bet you dimes to donuts (if I had any donuts.. hey.. if we had some eggs, we could make ham and eggs.. if we had any ham..) .. he's flipping a coin he won there.. not that there's anything wrong with that, but anyone who uses TeleTrade has seen that same wording a bajillion dimes.. err.. times..
and besides, it's "Hare to get"
always proofread so you don't any words..
Harv
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>
<< <i>One question I have. They say that the die counts are for the 2008-W Burnished Silver American Eagles. They do not indicate whether the dies are of the 2007 design or 2008. Is this just a list of ALL dies used during a run where the reverse of 2007 coins were found? >>
Hmmmm......At first I said "Duh" after reading the above BUT in re-reading the response it NEVER mentions anything about the different reverse just 2008 Silver Eagles produced at the West Point Mint. What the freak good does this do?????? We're assuming it's the 08/07 coin
Am I also reading this wrong????
I guess it depends on how the original question was asked but they sure don't make that clear in the response. Maybe they just do not know which die # has what design and are giving a number that is the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE NUMBER from the totals of the run. The 08/07 coins may be a much smaller subset of this production run.
<< <i>I see people are still gambling away thier money for those sealed boxes of 5.Has anyone heard of anyone finding any reverses in those boxes?I saw one feebback where the guy said he opened up the box and found 5 proofs,he was not happy. >>
That's a typical "roll the dice" auction. A few are legitimate, but most are "sealed" early mint sets, "OBW" '69-S Lincoln rolls, rolls with a '09-S on one end, etc. The price usually reflects the risk the bidders are willing to take. Not much chance of scoring big, but some enjoy scratching a lottery ticket, so to speak.
If there was any possibility of an 08/07 reverse in these boxes, they would have been opened. I'd say the chances of finding one are next to nil and maybe nil. Another way for creative sellers to scam foolhardy buyers.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Either the mint pulled a lot of these before they got out or there are many sealed boxes out there with owners who do not know of this discovery. Another possibility is many are still out there awaiting discovery in small batches of 5 or 10 or being horded.
Either way, all the above scenarios make for a very scarce issue and time will treat these coins well in my opinion.
<< <i>In the FOIA filing with the mint, was the question asked as to how many 2008 W with reverse of 07 silver eagles were melted, reclaimed from pre-shipped packages or destroyed?
>>
Yes, the question was asked and not answered. I'm hoping to draft my response to the Mint this weekend in the hopes of getting them to provide more information that we thought we were paying for.
For a synopsis of all my correspondance with the Mint...go to this thread.
2008-W Reverse of 2007 FOIA Thread
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
<< <i>If they charge you more money, we will help you pay. Let us know! We need to get to the bottom of this. >>
The Mint knows the ballpark figure . but ain't gonna let it out ......all coins produced , are put into bins that have a lot number.. if they know the dies # , when the 07 reverses were changed , then, all coins made could be traced back to the lot numbers made of 2008/07.
My guess and money , is that many of the 2008/07 coins shipped out to the packer , and the Mint caught what was still in the Mint warehouse..which is why the Mint can't know a specific mintage of 2008/07..so , it isn't 47,000 and judging the supply contraction on the bay..20,000 or less is a ball park # ........save your money.................. the MARKET WILL TELL THE TRUTH
<< <i>If they charge you more money, we will help you pay. Let us know! We need to get to the bottom of this >>
Since they did not answer the inquiry completely I think you have a case for the question of how many coins actually were released to the public. The mintage may be 46k + but how many coins made it out of the mint?????????? Minor detail......
p.s. I love ASE's (Modern crap)
FS ASE 08/07 reverse for 2k will you be selling or not?
<< <i>Just a hypothetical question and to keep the topic on topic and ongoing...I don't have one so lets set that record straight. If anybody here offered to buy one of your PCGS MS70
FS ASE 08/07 reverse for 2k will you be selling or not?
I would not sell my 08 rev 07 PCGS first strike ms70 for $5000 at this point. There are only 167 of them right now and I sure don't see many more than that in the future.
Joe
5400 coming