<< <i>The Webber 93 Finest would that be the Refractor version? >>
No. PSA only uses the base card for these sets. A Webber 10 just went unsold for $9.99!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I think we definitely need to add Chris Webber ('93 Finest) too. Career 20.7 points, 9.8 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks. Can you say well rounded??? He compares VERY favorably to another forward who did it all, Pippen. 16.1-6.4-5.2-2.0-0.8. >>
While I agree with you wholeheartedly, you would have a difficult time getting that idea past most writers, much less average fans who underrate Webber (who has been the subject of a low level campaign of belittlement since his days at Michigan) and rather overrate Pippen.
<< <i>What would be the correct card for Duncan/McGrady....I was just looking through my cards and I have a Chrome McGrady and SP Duncan.. >>
I'd day SP for both.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Dave, Going back to your question about that Lebron James 2002 Finest card - apparently that is a legit 2002 card. I decided to check the Lebron registry and sure enough, there are 3 different cards listed from '02 (one is the refractor version of the finest card). Let me see if I can link this thing correctly:
The Finest was a redemption card and the U.D. was limited to 499.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
The Ripken analogy is not an exact one as Cal had a regular issue card in 1982 Topps and Payton did not have a 1990 Fleer regular issue. I like the 1990 Fleer Update, mostly to maintain the consistency of Fleer issues as key RC's until they are obviously not the best.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
I say absolutely, just as I've said before. Check this out:
Who Knew? With Chris Webber's career ending, it's time to view his career in perspective. Webber is among a short list of legends to average 20 points, nine rebounds and four assists a game. Player Years Hall of Fame Kevin Garnett 1996-Present ? Chris Webber* 1993-2008 ? Larry Bird 1979-92 Yes Billy Cunningham 1965-76 Yes Wilt Chamberlain 1959-73 Yes Elgin Baylor 1958-72 Yes * -- 20.7 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 4.2 APG
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Shagrotn77 - My problem with Webber on that list is that he is clearly the worst player in the group. He barely qualifies under all of the criteria. If you change the criteria to 20 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists, you only lose Webber (if you count Cunningham's ABA statistics).
Dave - While Webber's stats indicate a Hall of Famer I think his selection will take a while. In his favour are his points and rebounds per game as Andy mentioned.
As a positive but not overwhelming stat is the fact he has played in 5 all-star games and been selected to the All-NBA team first team once and second team 3 times.
On the negative side his play-off statistics are spotty and he does not have a big game player reputation. No appearances in the NBA finals also will hurt his cause in the eye of the voters. I believe he has only finished in the Top 5 in the MVP vote once.
Those are the kinds of things that frustrate me. All Star games, MVP awards, a guy's reputation...those are all things that are nebulous and open to discussion. Things that are either voted on or subject to being built up on a subrosa basis over time, rather than quantifiable measurements of what a person actually did on the court. Webber has long had a problem with some writers and other media people and I have always been puzzled as to why. Plenty of other people who cover the NBA describe him as open and friendly but this rep has persisted.
Ask almost any NBA fan and they're as likely as not to describe him as a bad guy. Ask those same people about Karl Malone and he'll likely get glowing reviews, in spite of the fact that many of the league's players thought of him as a bully. An unquestionably talented one, but a bully nonetheless (much like Elvin Hays, who Karl always reminded me of.)
I don't want to start a fight with anyone who is a fan of Karl's (I'll candidly admit, I'm not), or even comparing the two players, as such, I'm simply trying to make a point. These kinds of perceptions play far too large a role in these questions, for my taste.
GDM67 - MVP voting and all-NBA team selections are something that is taken into significant consideration by the writers and voters. It does have some merit. Voting is done at the time by people that saw them play. Yes, they make mistakes, yes it is subjective, yes there can be biases but it holds a fair bit of weight and for the most part it is more accurate than not.
Webber's teams have seldom done well in the big games. As the best player on those teams his reputation takes a hit. I am not certain if that is fair but it is the reality and it will be considered by the voters.
When you look at Webber's stats it is hard to say he should have more appearances on the all-NBA teams or that his MVP votes were swayed by writers bias.
Webber is one of those guys where his stats look great and the passing of time will only help his cause. Yes, he was one of the better rounded big men of his time - the stats support that.
However, in addition to the issues already mentioned I think a couple other factors will hurt his chances. First, despite all the hype around him being the most prominent member of the Michigan Fab Five, let's not forget that Michigan had to forfeit all of those games because he accepted money from a booster. Plus he lied to the grand jury to try to cover it up.
As for his play on the court, I always felt he was a disappointment in his style of play. I know most people will say - what? Here is why: despite having the prototype size and body type for an NBA power forward, he never played like it. Think of Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, KG, these guys OWNED the paint, were willing to bang and could post up on anyone. Webber? Naw, he was content shooting 15 ft jumpers. Because of that tendency, I always thought he was soft. Also, how many times did Webber hit the big shot to win games? None of significance that I can remember. He seemed to not even want the ball in those situations.
Overall a great player, but I just cannot support the guy making the Hall.
He only made the all-star team one time? I would had assumed he had made several Statistics and accomplishments Height: 5'9" Inducted to the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame in 1993. Jersey #23 retired by the Houston Rockets. Free Throw Percentage, All-Time - Tied for 3rd, 3445 of 3864 (89.2%) NBA Record: Highest Free Throw Percentage in a Season - 206 of 215 (95.8%) in 1980-1 NBA Consecutive Free Throws Made - 3rd, 78 (December 27, 1980 - February 28, 1981) [9] NBA All-Rookie Team: 1971 NBA All-Star Team: 1979 Games played; 1,022 Career points: 17,949 (17.9 points per game) Career steals: 1,165 Career assists: 4,402 (4.4 apg) Career high points: 57 (against San Antonio Spurs, 1981) 1000-point seasons: 11
Looking for in PSA graded 1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+ 2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+ 3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos 1992 Courtside Flashback Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton) 2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology 2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos) Press Pass Legends
<< <i>GDM67 - MVP voting and all-NBA team selections are something that is taken into significant consideration by the writers and voters. It does have some merit. Voting is done at the time by people that saw them play. >>
And I don't completely discount it, but it's still based on opinions and impressions, and is thus subject to interpretation.
I'm not really arguing that Chris is an all time great, (although I do believe him to be clearly HOF caliber), simply that he's underappreciated and much of that has to do with a faulty impression about him personally. There are plenty of other players that is also true of. In fact, there are plenty of players who are recognized as all time greats who still have some nagging thing attached to their reputation which keeps them from getting proper credit.
Calvin Murphy is another player that is in the Basketball Hall Of Fame based as much on his Prolific College career as his Pro accomplishments. I defintely do not like the way the voting for the Basketball HOF is currently structured but it does not appear that it will be changing anytime soon. I attached a chart of the TOP 10 NCAA Div. 1 Scoring AVG leaders Below.
Yrs Last Pts Avg Pete Maravich, LSU 3 1970 3,667 44.2 Austin Carr, Notre Dame 3 1971 2,560 34.6 Oscar Robertson, Cinn. 3 1960 2,973 33.8 Calvin Murphy, Niagara 3 1970 2,548 33.1 Dwight Lamar, SW La. 2 1973 1,862 32.7 Frank Selvy, Furman 3 1954 2,538 32.5 Rick Mount, Purdue 3 1970 2,323 32.3 Darrell Floyd, Furman 3 1956 2,281 32.1 Nick Werkman, Seton Hall 3 1964 2,273 32.0 Willie Humes, Idaho St. 2 1971 1,510 31.5
<< <i>I defintely do not like the way the voting for the Basketball HOF is currently structured but it does not appear that it will be changing anytime soon. >>
I completely agree. When Ralph Sampson is a finalist for the HOF (as he's been in the past) something's wrong. Murphy and Thompson would definitely not be in if not for their college exploits. Neither would Walton IMO. Given all of this, it begs the question as to why Adrian Dantley is still not in the HOF. He had both collegiate AND Olympic success, both on a high level, before joining the NBA and having a great career.
And, if not for his exploits in college, I don't think that Maravich guy would be in the HOF either!
Kidding of course
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< What would be the correct card for Duncan/McGrady....I was just looking through my cards and I have a Chrome McGrady and SP Duncan.. >>
<<I'd day SP for both.>>
Back to the earlier topic (I haven't read the thread in a few days) - I'd vote for either/or SP and Chrome. I'd do the same in 1998 although SP and Chrome values start to separate in 98. I like the Hockey Rookie HOF concept where multiple cards for the rookie year can be used.
C56, V252, V128-1 sets Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
For Duncan, SP and Topps Chrome are close, so an either/or option would be a possibility there. But SP is CLEARLY McGrady's best rookie. It's not even close.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I don't think the Fleer 88 Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen have been mentioned but they ought to be included. >>
Absolutely.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I thought you guys might like to see my latest addition :
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
It looks like we have all the possibilities spread over the last couple pages. Can someone put together a master list? I think it'd be a good idea to get a majority vote. Probably a good idea also to vote on players first, and then cards. We can open the vote for say 1-2 weeks? I don't think PSA will be adding any new sets until the end of next month, so there's no rush.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Chris Webber in the HOF? Are you guys kidding me? Have you seen basketball at all in the last 15 years? There's no doubt that he had the talent to produce a HOF career, but he missed a ton of games to injuries, was a horrendous crunch-time player (why was it that Bibby and Peja took all the Kings final shots when Webber was supposedly their best player?), and his teams never won much of anything except a few years where the Kings choked deep in the playoffs. His career isn't even close to Hall of Fame material even though he scored a few points.
He would've been much better off not being traded by Orlando and coming up with Shaq and building something in Orlando rather than playing Nellie Ball with Tim Hardaway.
Also, this being my first time reading this thread, the Basketball voters put very little faith in the stats like they do in BB and FB. That's why guys like Dantley and King haven't made it (although they should). It's more about guys who made their mark on the sport, which is why players like Sampson get serious consideration. I would add Mutombo to the list as mentioned- he was the most dominant defensive center of the modern era. Keep an eye on
Rasheed Wallace who is quickly making a name for himself as a team leader and one of the best basketball brains in the history of the game. It seems he's matured and his temper doesn't get the best of him like it used to (as much anyway). He probably won't get in because of being known for all the technicals, but he might if he can guide a team to the title. He's quietly put a solid career together, but needs some help over the next 5 years to get over the hump.
I think Webber's assist total for a big man is his most impressive stat. And Wallace's low rebound total is his least impressive stat. I've heard and read a lot of anti Chris Webber sentiment since he retired, but his stats are most definitely there.
Should it matter that he never reach his full potential if his career was still really, really good?
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Ok, Guys ... I think most of these are "no brainers"
In alphabetical order
Bryant, Kobe Dantley, Adrian Duncan, Tim Ewing, Patrick Garnett, Kevin Iverson, Allen Johnson, Dennis Jordan, Michael Kidd, Jason Malone, Karl McGrady, Tracy Miller, Reggie Nash, Steve Nowitski, Dirk Olajuwan, Akeem O'neal, Shaquille Payton, Gary Pippen, Scottie Robinson, David Stockton, John
And these are the other players mentioned that should be voted upon. Copy and paste this group and simply put a yes or no after their name. If you don't know enough about them, just leave it blank.
Allen, Ray Carter, Vince Cheeks, Maurice Cooper, Cynthia Davis, Walter Divac, Vlade Gilmore, Artis Guerin, Rich Haywood, Spencer Hill, Grant Holdsclaw, Chamique Johnson, Gus Jones, Bobby King, Bernard Lambier, Bill Leslie, Lisa Montcrief, Sidney Mullin, Chris Mutumbo, Dikembe Pierce, Paul Richmond, Mitch Rodman, Dennis Sabonis, Arvidas Sampson, Ralph Staley, Dawn Swoopes, Sheryl Walker, Chet Webber, Chris Wallace, Rasheed White, Jo Jo
If you disagree with anything thus far, let me know, I will not be offended if you tell me that Cynthia Cooper should be a "no-brainer".
Keep in mind that this is the "Basketball" HOF and not the NBA HOF. Some of the players you may ask """What!??" (Sabonis, Divac), but keep in mind their stellar International and college play. Dave
Allen, Ray - Yes Carter, Vince - Yes Cheeks, Maurice - No Cooper, Cynthia - Yes Davis, Walter - No Divac, Vlade - No Gilmore, Artis - Yes Guerin, Rich - No Haywood, Spencer - Yes (Though he will never make it) Hill, Grant - Yes Holdsclaw, Chamique - Yes Johnson, Gus - No Jones, Bobby - No King, Bernard - Yes Lambier, Bill - No Leslie, Lisa - Yes Montcrief, Sidney - No Mullin, Chris - Yes Mutumbo, Dikembe - No Pierce, Paul - Yes Richmond, Mitch - Yes Rodman, Dennis - No Sabonis, Arvidas - No Sampson, Ralph - No Staley, Dawn - No Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes Walker, Chet - Yes Webber, Chris - Yes Wallace, Rasheed - No White, Jo Jo - No
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Allen, Ray - No Carter, Vince - No Cheeks, Maurice - No Cooper, Cynthia - Yes Davis, Walter - Yes Divac, Vlade - No Gilmore, Artis - Yes Guerin, Rich- Yes Haywood, Spencer - Yes Hill, Grant - No Holdsclaw, Chamique - No Johnson, Gus - No Jones, Bobby - No King, Bernard - No Lambier, Bill - *&^^% NO Leslie, Lisa - Yes Montcrief, Sidney - No Mullin, Chris - No Mutumbo, Dikembe - No Pierce, Paul - No (not yet, maybe after the Celtics win) Richmond, Mitch - No Rodman, Dennis - No Sabonis, Arvidas - Yes (what is his rookie card?) Sampson, Ralph - No Staley, Dawn - No Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes Walker, Chet - No Webber, Chris - No Wallace, Rasheed - Please No White, Jo Jo - No
I would add Steve Nash - with 2 MVPs he's going to get in
C56, V252, V128-1 sets Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
Looking for in PSA graded 1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+ 2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+ 3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos 1992 Courtside Flashback Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton) 2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology 2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos) Press Pass Legends
My vote is not who I think will or should get voted in but who should be included as a possible candidate:
Allen, Ray YES Carter, Vince YES Cheeks, Maurice YES Cooper, Cynthia YES Davis, Walter no Divac, Vlade no Gilmore, Artis YES Guerin, Rich no Haywood, Spencer YES Hill, Grant YES Holdsclaw, Chamique YES Johnson, Gus no Jones, Bobby no King, Bernard YES Lambier, Bill no Leslie, Lisa YES Montcrief, Sidney YES Mullin, Chris YES Mutumbo, Dikembe no Pierce, Paul YES Richmond, Mitch YES Rodman, Dennis YES Sabonis, Arvidas no Sampson, Ralph YES Staley, Dawn YES Swoopes, Sheryl YES Walker, Chet no Webber, Chris YES Wallace, Rasheed no White, Jo Jo YES
Allen, Ray - Yes Carter, Vince - Yes Cheeks, Maurice - No Cooper, Cynthia - Yes Davis, Walter - No Divac, Vlade - No Gilmore, Artis - Yes Guerin, Rich - Yes Haywood, Spencer - No Hill, Grant - No Holdsclaw, Chamique - Yes Johnson, Gus - No Jones, Bobby - No King, Bernard - Yes Lambier, Bill - No Leslie, Lisa - Yes Montcrief, Sidney - No Mullin, Chris - Yes Mutumbo, Dikembe - No Pierce, Paul - Yes Richmond, Mitch - No Rodman, Dennis - Yes Sabonis, Arvidas - Yes Sampson, Ralph - No Staley, Dawn - Yes Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes Walker, Chet - No Webber, Chris - No Wallace, Rasheed - No White, Jo Jo - No
Allen, Ray yes Carter, Vince yes Cheeks, Maurice Cooper, Cynthia yes Davis, Walter Divac, Vlade Gilmore, Artis Guerin, Rich Haywood, Spencer yes Hill, Grant yes Holdsclaw, Chamique yes Johnson, Gus Jones, Bobby King, Bernard yes Lambier, Bill Leslie, Lisa yes Montcrief, Sidney Mullin, Chris yes Mutumbo, Dikembe yes Pierce, Paul Richmond, Mitch Rodman, Dennis yes Sabonis, Arvidas yes Sampson, Ralph Staley, Dawn Swoopes, Sheryl yes Walker, Chet Webber, Chris Wallace, Rasheed White, Jo Jo
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
I didn't say Wallace would get in. I'm saying in 5 years, Wallace might have swayed people into thinking he's worthy. Andy, it's not a stats game.... at all. That's why you guys don't get who's in and who doesn't get the votes. The voters don't look at the stats to make their decisions and never will. It's who left their mark on the game, and every coach and media person in the league knows right now that Rasheed Wallace can physically run every play in the Pistons playbook from every position. That takes an unbelievable amount of basketball brainpower, and if he'd dedicated himself to this earlier in his career he'd be a mortal lock right now. He'll probably become a coach very shortly after he retires and be one of the better ones. All I'm saying is that he's got a shot if the next 5 years play out well, especially if he's the team leader of a team that gets a ring (see Ozzie Smith).
Webber will not get in because his career is considered by most basketball people to be a disappointment. He never appeared in a Finals, never picked up his team and carried them on his back in the playoffs, never took a clutch shot to win the big game, and was a #1 overall pick who got traded for a #3 and three #1 picks.
Allen, Ray-No Carter, Vince-No Cheeks, Maurice-No Cooper, Cynthia-Yes Davis, Walter-No Divac, Vlade-No Gilmore, Artis-Yes (This guy has been overlooked more than DJ) Guerin, Rich-Yes (Good numbers for the era he played in) Haywood, Spencer-Yes Hill, Grant-No (Love his game But injuries killed him) Holdsclaw, Chamique-No Johnson, Gus-Yes (The most feared power forward of his era) Jones, Bobby-No King, Bernard-Yes Lambier, Bill-No Leslie, Lisa-Yes Montcrief, Sidney-Yes Mullin, Chris-No Mutumbo, Dikembe-No Pierce, Paul-No Richmond, Mitch-No Rodman, Dennis-Yes (That day I would travel to Springfield) Sabonis, Arvidas-Yes(Awesome International player) Sampson, Ralph-No Staley, Dawn-No Swoopes, Sheryl-Yes Walker, Chet-Yes Webber, Chris-Yes Wallace, Rasheed-No White, Jo Jo-No
<< <i>Webber will not get in because his career is considered by most basketball people to be a disappointment. He never appeared in a Finals, never picked up his team and carried them on his back in the playoffs, never took a clutch shot to win the big game, and was a #1 overall pick who got traded for a #3 and three #1 picks. >>
I agree wholeheartedly. As I said in my earlier post on Webber, if you watched him play, he was SOFT. Never fought for the tough rebounds, wasn't willing to box out and couldn't get the clutch basket when it was needed.
Here's my votes:
Allen, Ray - Not yet Carter, Vince - Not yet Cheeks, Maurice - No Cooper, Cynthia - Yes Davis, Walter - No Divac, Vlade - No Gilmore, Artis - Yes Guerin, Rich - No Haywood, Spencer - No Hill, Grant - No Holdsclaw, Chamique - Yes Johnson, Gus - No Jones, Bobby - No King, Bernard - No Lambier, Bill - No Leslie, Lisa - Yes Montcrief, Sidney - No Mullin, Chris - Yes Mutumbo, Dikembe - If DJ gets in, YES. Otherwise, NO. Pierce, Paul - Not yet Richmond, Mitch - No Rodman, Dennis - Yes Sabonis, Arvidas - Yes (reluctantly) Sampson, Ralph - No Staley, Dawn - No Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes Walker, Chet - No Webber, Chris - NO! Wallace, Rasheed - No White, Jo Jo - No
Does anyone think we should agree to some sort of career stat threshold (total pts?) before adding guys to this list? I'm looking at some of the guys like Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Sheed, even McGrady - like Lee says, I think that the next 5 years or so will truly determine their chances of getting in. If their careers ended today, would they get voted in? I'd rather have this list be less inclusive if anything.
I have not been writting on these boards...but am doing the rc hof set.
Allen, Ray no Carter, Vince yes Cheeks, Maurice no Cooper, Cynthia yes Davis, Walter yes Divac, Vlade yes Gilmore, Artis yes Guerin, Rich maybe Haywood, Spencer yes Hill, Grant maybe Holdsclaw, Chamique yes Johnson, Gus no Jones, Bobby no King, Bernard yes Lambier, Bill no Leslie, Lisa yes Montcrief, Sidney yes Mullin, Chris no Mutumbo, Dikembe no Pierce, Paul maybe Richmond, Mitch maybe Rodman, Dennis no Sabonis, Arvidas yes Sampson, Ralph no Staley, Dawn Swoopes, Sheryl yes Walker, Chet yes Webber, Chris yes Wallace, Rasheed no White, Jo Jo yes
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Allen, Ray ----- no Carter, Vince ----- no Cheeks, Maurice ----- no Cooper, Cynthia -----yes Davis, Walter ----- no Divac, Vlade ----- no Gilmore, Artis -----yes, although you would think he would already be in if it was going to happen Guerin, Rich ----- no Haywood, Spencer ----- no Hill, Grant ----- no Holdsclaw, Chamique----- no Johnson, Gus ----- no, very tough choice, I would elect him, but I don't think the voters will Jones, Bobby ----- no King, Bernard ----- no, tough choice again, a lot of numbers and coming back from injury was great Lambier, Bill ----- no Leslie, Lisa -----yes Montcrief, Sidney ----- no Mullin, Chris -----yes Mutumbo, Dikembe ----- no Pierce, Paul ----- no Richmond, Mitch ----- no Rodman, Dennis ----- no Sabonis, Arvidas -----yes as an international, would have loved to see him vs. Shaq in their primes Sampson, Ralph ----- no Staley, Dawn -----yes Swoopes, Sheryl -----yes Walker, Chet ----- no, very difficult choice as he was one of the best of his era. Webber, Chris ----- no Wallace, Rasheed ----- no White, Jo Jo ----- no
I said no on most of these players, because when it comes to the HOF, I think only the best of the best should get in. All of these players were (are) very good, but just not quite good enough. And I think I need to take a closer look at Chris Mullin. I voted yes because of his combined pro and college career, but if he was not elected I would not be shocked.
4 votes Allen, Ray Montcrief, Sidney Walker, Chet Webber, Chris
3 votes Guerin, Rich Hill, Grant Pierce, Paul Richmond, Mitch Staley, Dawn White, Jo Jo
2 votes Cheeks, Maurice Davis, Walter Divac, Vlade Mutumbo, Dikembe
1 vote Johnson, Gus Sampson, Ralph Wallace, Rasheed
0 votes Jones, Bobby Lambier, Bill
Any suprises?? >>
Just cant see why Rodman did not get more votes. I know he was out there but his resume is awesome,
Career awards and accomplishments 5 time NBA Champion (1989 & 1990 (Detroit), 1996–98 (Chicago)) All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995) NBA All-Star Team (1990, 1992) NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (1990, 1991) NBA All-Defensive First Team (1989–93, 1995, 1996) NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1994) NBA Top Rebounds Per Game (1992–98) NBA Top Rebound Rate (1991–98) NBA Top Total Rebounds (1992–94, 1998) NBA Top Offensive Rebounds (1991–94, 1996, 1997) NBA Top Defensive Rebounds (1992, 1994, 1998) NBA Top Field Goal Percentage (1989)
He would be a perfect candidate for Defense/Rebounding to be recognized as much as Scoring/Assists is in voting for the Hall. No one can debate that when he was on the floor his teams always had a chance to win.
Comments
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
What would be the correct card for Duncan/McGrady....I was just looking through my cards and I have a Chrome McGrady and SP Duncan..
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>The Webber 93 Finest would that be the Refractor version? >>
No. PSA only uses the base card for these sets. A Webber 10 just went unsold for $9.99!
<< <i>I think we definitely need to add Chris Webber ('93 Finest) too. Career 20.7 points, 9.8 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks. Can you say well rounded??? He compares VERY favorably to another forward who did it all, Pippen. 16.1-6.4-5.2-2.0-0.8. >>
While I agree with you wholeheartedly, you would have a difficult time getting that idea past most writers, much less average fans who underrate Webber (who has been the subject of a low level campaign of belittlement since his days at Michigan) and rather overrate Pippen.
<< <i>What would be the correct card for Duncan/McGrady....I was just looking through my cards and I have a Chrome McGrady and SP Duncan.. >>
I'd day SP for both.
Going back to your question about that Lebron James 2002 Finest card - apparently that is a legit 2002 card. I decided to check the Lebron registry and sure enough, there are 3 different cards listed from '02 (one is the refractor version of the finest card). Let me see if I can link this thing correctly:
Lebron Registry
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Who Knew?
With Chris Webber's career ending, it's time to view his career in perspective. Webber is among a short list of legends to average 20 points, nine rebounds and four assists a game.
Player Years Hall of Fame
Kevin Garnett 1996-Present ?
Chris Webber* 1993-2008 ?
Larry Bird 1979-92 Yes
Billy Cunningham 1965-76 Yes
Wilt Chamberlain 1959-73 Yes
Elgin Baylor 1958-72 Yes
* -- 20.7 PPG, 9.8 RPG, 4.2 APG
Dave - While Webber's stats indicate a Hall of Famer I think his selection will take a while. In his favour are his points and rebounds per game as Andy mentioned.
As a positive but not overwhelming stat is the fact he has played in 5 all-star games and been selected to the All-NBA team first team once and second team 3 times.
On the negative side his play-off statistics are spotty and he does not have a big game player reputation. No appearances in the NBA finals also will hurt his cause in the eye of the voters. I believe he has only finished in the Top 5 in the MVP vote once.
Ask almost any NBA fan and they're as likely as not to describe him as a bad guy. Ask those same people about Karl Malone and he'll likely get glowing reviews, in spite of the fact that many of the league's players thought of him as a bully. An unquestionably talented one, but a bully nonetheless (much like Elvin Hays, who Karl always reminded me of.)
I don't want to start a fight with anyone who is a fan of Karl's (I'll candidly admit, I'm not), or even comparing the two players, as such, I'm simply trying to make a point. These kinds of perceptions play far too large a role in these questions, for my taste.
Webber's teams have seldom done well in the big games. As the best player on those teams his reputation takes a hit. I am not certain if that is fair but it is the reality and it will be considered by the voters.
When you look at Webber's stats it is hard to say he should have more appearances on the all-NBA teams or that his MVP votes were swayed by writers bias.
Yeah...Right
HOF PROBABILITY
However, in addition to the issues already mentioned I think a couple other factors will hurt his chances. First, despite all the hype around him being the most prominent member of the Michigan Fab Five, let's not forget that Michigan had to forfeit all of those games because he accepted money from a booster. Plus he lied to the grand jury to try to cover it up.
As for his play on the court, I always felt he was a disappointment in his style of play. I know most people will say - what? Here is why: despite having the prototype size and body type for an NBA power forward, he never played like it. Think of Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, KG, these guys OWNED the paint, were willing to bang and could post up on anyone. Webber? Naw, he was content shooting 15 ft jumpers. Because of that tendency, I always thought he was soft. Also, how many times did Webber hit the big shot to win games? None of significance that I can remember. He seemed to not even want the ball in those situations.
Overall a great player, but I just cannot support the guy making the Hall.
<< <i>185. Calvin Murphy* 0.0333
Yeah...Right
HOF PROBABILITY >>
He only made the all-star team one time?
I would had assumed he had made several
Statistics and accomplishments
Height: 5'9"
Inducted to the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame in 1993.
Jersey #23 retired by the Houston Rockets.
Free Throw Percentage, All-Time - Tied for 3rd, 3445 of 3864 (89.2%)
NBA Record: Highest Free Throw Percentage in a Season - 206 of 215 (95.8%) in 1980-1
NBA Consecutive Free Throws Made - 3rd, 78 (December 27, 1980 - February 28, 1981) [9]
NBA All-Rookie Team: 1971
NBA All-Star Team: 1979
Games played; 1,022
Career points: 17,949 (17.9 points per game)
Career steals: 1,165
Career assists: 4,402 (4.4 apg)
Career high points: 57 (against San Antonio Spurs, 1981)
1000-point seasons: 11
1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos
1992 Courtside Flashback
Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
Press Pass Legends
<< <i>GDM67 - MVP voting and all-NBA team selections are something that is taken into significant consideration by the writers and voters. It does have some merit. Voting is done at the time by people that saw them play. >>
And I don't completely discount it, but it's still based on opinions and impressions, and is thus subject to interpretation.
I'm not really arguing that Chris is an all time great, (although I do believe him to be clearly HOF caliber), simply that he's underappreciated and much of that has to do with a faulty impression about him personally. There are plenty of other players that is also true of. In fact, there are plenty of players who are recognized as all time greats who still have some nagging thing attached to their reputation which keeps them from getting proper credit.
Yrs Last Pts Avg
Pete Maravich, LSU 3 1970 3,667 44.2
Austin Carr, Notre Dame 3 1971 2,560 34.6
Oscar Robertson, Cinn. 3 1960 2,973 33.8
Calvin Murphy, Niagara 3 1970 2,548 33.1
Dwight Lamar, SW La. 2 1973 1,862 32.7
Frank Selvy, Furman 3 1954 2,538 32.5
Rick Mount, Purdue 3 1970 2,323 32.3
Darrell Floyd, Furman 3 1956 2,281 32.1
Nick Werkman, Seton Hall 3 1964 2,273 32.0
Willie Humes, Idaho St. 2 1971 1,510 31.5
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
<< <i>I defintely do not like the way the voting for the Basketball HOF is currently structured but it does not appear that it will be changing anytime soon. >>
I completely agree. When Ralph Sampson is a finalist for the HOF (as he's been in the past) something's wrong. Murphy and Thompson would definitely not be in if not for their college exploits. Neither would Walton IMO. Given all of this, it begs the question as to why Adrian Dantley is still not in the HOF. He had both collegiate AND Olympic success, both on a high level, before joining the NBA and having a great career.
And, if not for his exploits in college, I don't think that Maravich guy would be in the HOF either!
Kidding of course
<<I'd day SP for both.>>
Back to the earlier topic (I haven't read the thread in a few days) - I'd vote for either/or SP and Chrome. I'd do the same in 1998 although SP and Chrome values start to separate in 98. I like the Hockey Rookie HOF concept where multiple cards for the rookie year can be used.
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
I don't think the Fleer 88 Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen have been mentioned but they ought to be included.
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
<< <i>I don't think the Fleer 88 Reggie Miller and Scottie Pippen have been mentioned but they ought to be included. >>
Absolutely.
<< <i>72 Gilmore
77 Dantley
78 King
78 DJ
86 fleer Ewing, Jordan, Malone, Olajuwon, Mullin
88 Fleer Pippen, Miller, Stockton ---Rodman??
89 Hoops Robinson
90 Skybox Payton
92 UD Shaq
92 UD Lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoopes, Dawn Staley (uug....WNBA)
94 Finest Kidd
95 Finest Garnett
96 Topps Chrome Iverson, Bryant, Nash -------Ray Allen????
97 Pinnacle Cynthia Cooper
97 Duncan, McGrady Topps Chrome vs. SP
98 SP Nowitski, Carter
99 ultra Holdsclaw
03 James, Anthony, Wade.....I have no idea on their RC.??
>>
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
1971-72 Spencer Haywood
1980-81 Sidney Moncrief, Maurice Cheeks
1988-89 Dennis Rodman
1989-90 Mitch Richmond
1993-94 Chris Webber
1994-95 Grant Hill
1996-97 Ray Allen
1998-99 Paul Pierce
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
He would've been much better off not being traded by Orlando and coming up with Shaq and building something in Orlando rather than playing Nellie Ball with Tim Hardaway.
Rasheed Wallace who is quickly making a name for himself as a team leader and one of the best basketball brains in the history of the game. It seems he's matured and his temper doesn't get the best of him like it used to (as much anyway). He probably won't get in because of being known for all the technicals, but he might if he can guide a team to the title. He's quietly put a solid career together, but needs some help over the next 5 years to get over the hump.
Webber
20.7 Points 9.8 Rebounds 4.2 Assists 1.4 Blocks
Wallace
15.3 Points 6.9 Rebounds 1.9 Assists 1.4 Blocks
I think Webber's assist total for a big man is his most impressive stat. And Wallace's low rebound total is his least impressive stat. I've heard and read a lot of anti Chris Webber sentiment since he retired, but his stats are most definitely there.
Should it matter that he never reach his full potential if his career was still really, really good?
In alphabetical order
Bryant, Kobe
Dantley, Adrian
Duncan, Tim
Ewing, Patrick
Garnett, Kevin
Iverson, Allen
Johnson, Dennis
Jordan, Michael
Kidd, Jason
Malone, Karl
McGrady, Tracy
Miller, Reggie
Nash, Steve
Nowitski, Dirk
Olajuwan, Akeem
O'neal, Shaquille
Payton, Gary
Pippen, Scottie
Robinson, David
Stockton, John
And these are the other players mentioned that should be voted upon. Copy and paste this group and simply put a yes or no after their name. If you don't know enough about them, just leave it blank.
Allen, Ray
Carter, Vince
Cheeks, Maurice
Cooper, Cynthia
Davis, Walter
Divac, Vlade
Gilmore, Artis
Guerin, Rich
Haywood, Spencer
Hill, Grant
Holdsclaw, Chamique
Johnson, Gus
Jones, Bobby
King, Bernard
Lambier, Bill
Leslie, Lisa
Montcrief, Sidney
Mullin, Chris
Mutumbo, Dikembe
Pierce, Paul
Richmond, Mitch
Rodman, Dennis
Sabonis, Arvidas
Sampson, Ralph
Staley, Dawn
Swoopes, Sheryl
Walker, Chet
Webber, Chris
Wallace, Rasheed
White, Jo Jo
If you disagree with anything thus far, let me know, I will not be offended if you tell me that Cynthia Cooper should be a "no-brainer".
Keep in mind that this is the "Basketball" HOF and not the NBA HOF. Some of the players you may ask """What!??" (Sabonis, Divac), but keep in mind their stellar International and college play.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Carter, Vince - Yes
Cheeks, Maurice - No
Cooper, Cynthia - Yes
Davis, Walter - No
Divac, Vlade - No
Gilmore, Artis - Yes
Guerin, Rich - No
Haywood, Spencer - Yes (Though he will never make it)
Hill, Grant - Yes
Holdsclaw, Chamique - Yes
Johnson, Gus - No
Jones, Bobby - No
King, Bernard - Yes
Lambier, Bill - No
Leslie, Lisa - Yes
Montcrief, Sidney - No
Mullin, Chris - Yes
Mutumbo, Dikembe - No
Pierce, Paul - Yes
Richmond, Mitch - Yes
Rodman, Dennis - No
Sabonis, Arvidas - No
Sampson, Ralph - No
Staley, Dawn - No
Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes
Walker, Chet - Yes
Webber, Chris - Yes
Wallace, Rasheed - No
White, Jo Jo - No
Carter, Vince - No
Cheeks, Maurice - No
Cooper, Cynthia - Yes
Davis, Walter - Yes
Divac, Vlade - No
Gilmore, Artis - Yes
Guerin, Rich- Yes
Haywood, Spencer - Yes
Hill, Grant - No
Holdsclaw, Chamique - No
Johnson, Gus - No
Jones, Bobby - No
King, Bernard - No
Lambier, Bill - *&^^% NO
Leslie, Lisa - Yes
Montcrief, Sidney - No
Mullin, Chris - No
Mutumbo, Dikembe - No
Pierce, Paul - No (not yet, maybe after the Celtics win)
Richmond, Mitch - No
Rodman, Dennis - No
Sabonis, Arvidas - Yes (what is his rookie card?)
Sampson, Ralph - No
Staley, Dawn - No
Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes
Walker, Chet - No
Webber, Chris - No
Wallace, Rasheed - Please No
White, Jo Jo - No
I would add Steve Nash - with 2 MVPs he's going to get in
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
Carter, Vince-yes
Cheeks, Maurice-yes
Cooper, Cynthia-yes
Davis, Walter-no
Divac, Vlade-yes
Gilmore, Artis-yes
Guerin, Rich
Haywood, Spencer-yes
Hill, Grant-no
Holdsclaw, Chamique-
Johnson, Gus-
Jones, Bobby-no
King, Bernard-yes
Lambier, Bill-no
Leslie, Lisa-yes
Montcrief, Sidney-yes
Mullin, Chris-no
Mutumbo, Dikembe-yes
Pierce, Paul-no
Richmond, Mitch-yes
Rodman, Dennis-yes
Sabonis, Arvidas-yes
Sampson, Ralph-no
Staley, Dawn-
Swoopes, Sheryl-yes
Walker, Chet-yes
Webber, Chris-no
Wallace, Rasheed-yes
White, Jo Jo-yes
1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos
1992 Courtside Flashback
Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
Press Pass Legends
Allen, Ray YES
Carter, Vince YES
Cheeks, Maurice YES
Cooper, Cynthia YES
Davis, Walter no
Divac, Vlade no
Gilmore, Artis YES
Guerin, Rich no
Haywood, Spencer YES
Hill, Grant YES
Holdsclaw, Chamique YES
Johnson, Gus no
Jones, Bobby no
King, Bernard YES
Lambier, Bill no
Leslie, Lisa YES
Montcrief, Sidney YES
Mullin, Chris YES
Mutumbo, Dikembe no
Pierce, Paul YES
Richmond, Mitch YES
Rodman, Dennis YES
Sabonis, Arvidas no
Sampson, Ralph YES
Staley, Dawn YES
Swoopes, Sheryl YES
Walker, Chet no
Webber, Chris YES
Wallace, Rasheed no
White, Jo Jo YES
Allen, Ray - Yes
Carter, Vince - Yes
Cheeks, Maurice - No
Cooper, Cynthia - Yes
Davis, Walter - No
Divac, Vlade - No
Gilmore, Artis - Yes
Guerin, Rich - Yes
Haywood, Spencer - No
Hill, Grant - No
Holdsclaw, Chamique - Yes
Johnson, Gus - No
Jones, Bobby - No
King, Bernard - Yes
Lambier, Bill - No
Leslie, Lisa - Yes
Montcrief, Sidney - No
Mullin, Chris - Yes
Mutumbo, Dikembe - No
Pierce, Paul - Yes
Richmond, Mitch - No
Rodman, Dennis - Yes
Sabonis, Arvidas - Yes
Sampson, Ralph - No
Staley, Dawn - Yes
Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes
Walker, Chet - No
Webber, Chris - No
Wallace, Rasheed - No
White, Jo Jo - No
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Carter, Vince yes
Cheeks, Maurice
Cooper, Cynthia yes
Davis, Walter
Divac, Vlade
Gilmore, Artis
Guerin, Rich
Haywood, Spencer yes
Hill, Grant yes
Holdsclaw, Chamique yes
Johnson, Gus
Jones, Bobby
King, Bernard yes
Lambier, Bill
Leslie, Lisa yes
Montcrief, Sidney
Mullin, Chris yes
Mutumbo, Dikembe yes
Pierce, Paul
Richmond, Mitch
Rodman, Dennis yes
Sabonis, Arvidas yes
Sampson, Ralph
Staley, Dawn
Swoopes, Sheryl yes
Walker, Chet
Webber, Chris
Wallace, Rasheed
White, Jo Jo
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Webber will not get in because his career is considered by most basketball people to be a disappointment. He never appeared in a Finals, never picked up his team and carried them on his back in the playoffs, never took a clutch shot to win the big game, and was a #1 overall pick who got traded for a #3 and three #1 picks.
Also, Mutombo is pretty much a lock. So is Kidd.
Allen, Ray-No
Carter, Vince-No
Cheeks, Maurice-No
Cooper, Cynthia-Yes
Davis, Walter-No
Divac, Vlade-No
Gilmore, Artis-Yes (This guy has been overlooked more than DJ)
Guerin, Rich-Yes (Good numbers for the era he played in)
Haywood, Spencer-Yes
Hill, Grant-No (Love his game But injuries killed him)
Holdsclaw, Chamique-No
Johnson, Gus-Yes (The most feared power forward of his era) Jones, Bobby-No
King, Bernard-Yes
Lambier, Bill-No
Leslie, Lisa-Yes
Montcrief, Sidney-Yes
Mullin, Chris-No
Mutumbo, Dikembe-No
Pierce, Paul-No Richmond, Mitch-No
Rodman, Dennis-Yes (That day I would travel to Springfield)
Sabonis, Arvidas-Yes(Awesome International player)
Sampson, Ralph-No
Staley, Dawn-No
Swoopes, Sheryl-Yes
Walker, Chet-Yes
Webber, Chris-Yes
Wallace, Rasheed-No
White, Jo Jo-No
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
<< <i>Webber will not get in because his career is considered by most basketball people to be a disappointment. He never appeared in a Finals, never picked up his team and carried them on his back in the playoffs, never took a clutch shot to win the big game, and was a #1 overall pick who got traded for a #3 and three #1 picks. >>
I agree wholeheartedly. As I said in my earlier post on Webber, if you watched him play, he was SOFT. Never fought for the tough rebounds, wasn't willing to box out and couldn't get the clutch basket when it was needed.
Here's my votes:
Allen, Ray - Not yet
Carter, Vince - Not yet
Cheeks, Maurice - No
Cooper, Cynthia - Yes
Davis, Walter - No
Divac, Vlade - No
Gilmore, Artis - Yes
Guerin, Rich - No
Haywood, Spencer - No
Hill, Grant - No
Holdsclaw, Chamique - Yes
Johnson, Gus - No
Jones, Bobby - No
King, Bernard - No
Lambier, Bill - No
Leslie, Lisa - Yes
Montcrief, Sidney - No
Mullin, Chris - Yes
Mutumbo, Dikembe - If DJ gets in, YES. Otherwise, NO.
Pierce, Paul - Not yet
Richmond, Mitch - No
Rodman, Dennis - Yes
Sabonis, Arvidas - Yes (reluctantly)
Sampson, Ralph - No
Staley, Dawn - No
Swoopes, Sheryl - Yes
Walker, Chet - No
Webber, Chris - NO!
Wallace, Rasheed - No
White, Jo Jo - No
Does anyone think we should agree to some sort of career stat threshold (total pts?) before adding guys to this list? I'm looking at some of the guys like Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Sheed, even McGrady - like Lee says, I think that the next 5 years or so will truly determine their chances of getting in. If their careers ended today, would they get voted in? I'd rather have this list be less inclusive if anything.
Allen, Ray no
Carter, Vince yes
Cheeks, Maurice no
Cooper, Cynthia yes
Davis, Walter yes
Divac, Vlade yes
Gilmore, Artis yes
Guerin, Rich maybe
Haywood, Spencer yes
Hill, Grant maybe
Holdsclaw, Chamique yes
Johnson, Gus no
Jones, Bobby no
King, Bernard yes
Lambier, Bill no
Leslie, Lisa yes
Montcrief, Sidney yes
Mullin, Chris no
Mutumbo, Dikembe no
Pierce, Paul maybe
Richmond, Mitch maybe
Rodman, Dennis no
Sabonis, Arvidas yes
Sampson, Ralph no
Staley, Dawn
Swoopes, Sheryl yes
Walker, Chet yes
Webber, Chris yes
Wallace, Rasheed no
White, Jo Jo yes
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Another NO Brainer is KARL MALONE. >>
I had him on my list, I just forgot to type him in. I have edited my first list to include him....Nice catch..
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Carter, Vince ----- no
Cheeks, Maurice ----- no
Cooper, Cynthia -----yes
Davis, Walter ----- no
Divac, Vlade ----- no
Gilmore, Artis -----yes, although you would think he would already be in if it was going to happen
Guerin, Rich ----- no
Haywood, Spencer ----- no
Hill, Grant ----- no
Holdsclaw, Chamique----- no
Johnson, Gus ----- no, very tough choice, I would elect him, but I don't think the voters will
Jones, Bobby ----- no
King, Bernard ----- no, tough choice again, a lot of numbers and coming back from injury was great
Lambier, Bill ----- no
Leslie, Lisa -----yes
Montcrief, Sidney ----- no
Mullin, Chris -----yes
Mutumbo, Dikembe ----- no
Pierce, Paul ----- no
Richmond, Mitch ----- no
Rodman, Dennis ----- no
Sabonis, Arvidas -----yes as an international, would have loved to see him vs. Shaq in their primes
Sampson, Ralph ----- no
Staley, Dawn -----yes
Swoopes, Sheryl -----yes
Walker, Chet ----- no, very difficult choice as he was one of the best of his era.
Webber, Chris ----- no
Wallace, Rasheed ----- no
White, Jo Jo ----- no
I said no on most of these players, because when it comes to the HOF, I think only the best of the best should get in. All of these players were (are) very good, but just not quite good enough. And I think I need to take a closer look at Chris Mullin. I voted yes because of his combined pro and college career, but if he was not elected I would not be shocked.
10 votes
Cooper, Cynthia
Leslie, Lisa
Swoopes, Sheryl
9 votes
Gilmore, Artis
8 votes
Sabonis, Arvidas
7 votes
Haywood, Spencer
King, Bernard
6 votes
Carter, Vince
Holdsclaw, Chamique
Mullin, Chris
Rodman, Dennis
5 votes-------------------------------CUT LINE______________________________
4 votes
Allen, Ray
Montcrief, Sidney
Walker, Chet
Webber, Chris
3 votes
Guerin, Rich
Hill, Grant
Pierce, Paul
Richmond, Mitch
Staley, Dawn
White, Jo Jo
2 votes
Cheeks, Maurice
Davis, Walter
Divac, Vlade
Mutumbo, Dikembe
1 vote
Johnson, Gus
Sampson, Ralph
Wallace, Rasheed
0 votes
Jones, Bobby
Lambier, Bill
Any suprises??
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Here is the rundown after the ten of us voted.
10 votes
Cooper, Cynthia
Leslie, Lisa
Swoopes, Sheryl
9 votes
Gilmore, Artis
8 votes
Sabonis, Arvidas
7 votes
Haywood, Spencer
King, Bernard
6 votes
Carter, Vince
Holdsclaw, Chamique
Mullin, Chris
Rodman, Dennis
5 votes-------------------------------CUT LINE______________________________
4 votes
Allen, Ray
Montcrief, Sidney
Walker, Chet
Webber, Chris
3 votes
Guerin, Rich
Hill, Grant
Pierce, Paul
Richmond, Mitch
Staley, Dawn
White, Jo Jo
2 votes
Cheeks, Maurice
Davis, Walter
Divac, Vlade
Mutumbo, Dikembe
1 vote
Johnson, Gus
Sampson, Ralph
Wallace, Rasheed
0 votes
Jones, Bobby
Lambier, Bill
Any suprises?? >>
Just cant see why Rodman did not get more votes. I know he was out there but his resume is awesome,
Career awards and accomplishments
5 time NBA Champion (1989 & 1990 (Detroit), 1996–98 (Chicago))
All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995)
NBA All-Star Team (1990, 1992)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award (1990, 1991)
NBA All-Defensive First Team (1989–93, 1995, 1996)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1994)
NBA Top Rebounds Per Game (1992–98)
NBA Top Rebound Rate (1991–98)
NBA Top Total Rebounds (1992–94, 1998)
NBA Top Offensive Rebounds (1991–94, 1996, 1997)
NBA Top Defensive Rebounds (1992, 1994, 1998)
NBA Top Field Goal Percentage (1989)
He would be a perfect candidate for Defense/Rebounding to be recognized as much as Scoring/Assists is in voting for the Hall. No one can debate that when he was on the floor his teams always had a chance to win.
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC