Official Basketball HOF Rookies Thread###################################
Davemri
Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭
I started the football HOF RC thread, so I thought I would go ahead and do basketball. I am done with the basketball HOF set (less one card), but still love the set. It is one that I will not get rid of in the near future. So many cards that you can find on the cheap as compared to Baseball and Basketball. I just wanted to get some disscussions going about HOF eligibility and anything else you want to share. I will post pics of some of my favorite cards from this set when I get a chance.
Dave
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
0
Comments
Class of 2008
Best bets: Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon
On the bubble: Mitch Richmond
THE SKINNY: Two of the all-time greatest pivots take center stage. The '94 NBA Finals, when the Dream denied Ewing in his lone appearance in the title series, surely will be remembered by those in attendance. Of course, Ewing fans will prefer to dwell on the '84 NCAA Finals, when Ewing's Georgetown squad defeated Olajuwon's "Phi Slamma Jamma" Houston team. As for Richmond, he likely will join his Run TMC partner -- and current boss -- Mullin as a near-miss.
Class of 2009
Best bets: Michael Jordan, John Stockton, Pat Riley, David Robinson
THE SKINNY: A class for the ages, with the emphasis on "class." Jordan, the greatest ever to play the game, will be joined by Stockton, the league's all-time leader in assists and steals, and Robinson, one of the game's all-time statesmen. All three were NBA legends who played the game the right way. Riley, third all-time in NBA coaching victories and owner of four NBA rings, will bring his slick-backed hair and Armani style to the proceedings as well.
Class of 2010
Best bet: Karl Malone
THE SKINNY: Assuming he doesn't heed those annual calls to come out of retirement, the Mailman should be ready to follow his pick-and-roll buddy Stockton at this time. In his acceptance speech, he can tell the world how hard he worked to make it from humble beginnings to perhaps the greatest power forward of all time. But please, Mailman, for the sake of English teachers everywhere, make sure the speech contains the correct verb tenses.
Class of 2011
Best bet: Reggie Miller, Scottie Pippen
THE SKINNY: One was the consummate showman. The other was the perfect sidekick. In that sense, Miller and Pippen will provide Hall spectators proof that there is more than one way to achieve greatness in basketball. And think of the possibilities for presenters: Jordan for Pippen, and Spike Lee for Miller.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Do you think DJ (Dennis Johnson) will ever get enshrined posthumously? >>
Honsetly, I don't really know that much about the older players. I was born in 1976 and did not become a basketball fan until the late 90's when I moved to INDY. Maybe someone else can chime in on the who should be in debate. One player I've heard mentioned over and over is Adrian Dantley..
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Of course the Mikan is the "Nagurski" of the set and the other 48 Bowman and 33 Sport kings can be tough to find in nice condition, but that's the thrill of the hunt..
From 69- present all the cards are readily available on ebay at decent prices. In fact, most can be had in decent grades for under $100 or so (except Alcindor, Maravich, Erving and Bird/Magic.)
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Thanks for starting this thread. I agree with your assessment of pretty much all of the players you mentioned. As a Warriors fan, I think Mitch was a great player but just won't quite have the reputation, stats or the backing to ever make the Hall. I do however think Mullin will eventually make it in.
I do not think Dennis Johnson is deserving but he will always have support from Celtics fans and may get some sympathy votes after his unfortunate passing. His defense was unmatched, but the rest of his game just does not warrant enshrinement IMHO.
As far as older players are concerned, I always liked Artis Gilmore as a kid. He seemed to always be overshadowed by Kareem and Walton when talking about the best centers of the 70s.
Dantley? He was a little too one dimensional for me, but he could score! I would vote no but I'm guessing that he might be one of those guys whose scoring totals look more impressive as time passes.
Greg
And Adrian Dantley is the most snubbed deserving Hall-of-Famer in any sport. Period. You don't average more than 24 points for your career, including four straight 30-point seasos, without HOF talent. I don't care if Dantley was one dimensional. He did that ONE thing really well.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>I think most of the sets that are weighted include the 0.5. Most start at 1. I was actually the one that weighed this set back in the day. I'm sure it needs updated.
Dave >>
Didn't mean to rip the idea...I just never saw it before.
While there are not as many "controversial" candidates as in baseball or even football there are some names to be bandied about. I also think people forget that the Basketball Hall of Fame includes more than just a players professional career like in the other sports.
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
<< <i>You think collecting their Rookie cards is tough try the Autograph Set.LOL Goodlieu's HOF Auto Set >>
Wow, how much was that Mikan auto?
Basketball HOF Rookies
It is a free site and if it gets too much traffic, its shuts down for an hour or so. If you cant view it, just try back later.
Also, I built a website about the international hall of famers. I once had all the cards linked to pics but they dont currently work.
International HOF Rookies
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>You think collecting their Rookie cards is tough try the Autograph Set.LOL Goodlieu's HOF Auto Set >>
Wow, how much was that Mikan auto? >>
Actually I pulled that card out of a pack of the 1996 Topps Stars which was dedicated to the 1996 NBA 50th Anniversary Top 50 Team. Incidently I had to send this card even though its from a major card company into PSA/DNA authentication as they wont grade any Auto cards from the manufacturer pre 1988 (Really Stupid Policy IMO)
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
What do you guys think of Mullin's chances?
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
Open those doors
Ten NBA types who deserve inclusion in Hall of Fame
Posted: Friday January 11, 2008 2:03PM; Updated: Friday January 11, 2008 3:22PM
Adrian Dantley's prolific scoring hasn't been enough to earn him a Hall of Fame spot.
Adrian Dantley's prolific scoring hasn't been enough to earn him a Hall of Fame spot.
Manny Millan/SI
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The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame is the duck-billed platypus of sports' great shrines, a little-of-this, little-of-that place -- the organization, by the way, not the state-of-the-art facility in Springfield, Mass. -- designed by committee. As a result, it has too little of some very deserving potential members.
Buncha cooks, one spoiled broth.
Established in 1959, the basketball Hall tries to be all-inclusive, honoring coaches, players, referees and contributors from the professional, collegiate and international ranks, including both men and women. In that process of being all things to all hoopsters, though, it excludes some pretty worthy names.
There is room for Sandro Gamba in the Hall, but so far, not Adrian Dantley. Van Chancellor got in, even though Don Nelson did not. Drazen Petrovic is in, Bernard King is out.
(Pause for head scratching.)
One problem, obviously, is this unwieldy attempt to honor all levels of basketball under one roof, rather than divvying up the acclaim at least between professional and amateur shrines or letting the NBA peel off for its own glittery, multimedia showplace on Fifth Avenue, strategically located adjacent to its NBA Store. Better yet, because the college, women's and international games also have specific halls or museums, commissioner David Stern ought to commandeer the building in Springfield.
It doesn't help that there aren't any statistical standards, or "milestone'' thresholds, that will assure enshrinement; every selection is subjective. And that is made worse by the process itself, a relative star chamber compared with baseball's imperfect but essentially democratic approach to ushering its biggest names into Cooperstown.
In basketball, a secret and frequently changing committee of 24 voters massages a list of candidates through more steps than the moon has phases; the rules of enshrinement require intensive scrolling on the Hall's Web site. They even send possible nominees into limbo for five years if the process doesn't smile their way sufficiently, an enforced waiting game that works great if you want more posthumous selections.
Enough. No one person, with the possible exception of Stern, can correct all of the flaws associated with the basketball Hall. What I can do is remind whoever it is that will be a part of future voting, whenever they get around to it for the Class of 2008 or beyond (the finalists for this year won't be announced until next month), that a bunch of deserving people have been neglected.
Miami Heat coach Pat Riley (having met the 25-year eligibility rule for active coaches) and centers Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing (five years after their final seasons) should be no-brainer selections this year. Limiting our list to those with NBA qualifications, here are 10 more (in no particular order) to consider:
1. Adrian Dantley
Dantley is the Jim Rice of basketball, a powerful offensive force who dominated his sport like few others for a period of six season or so. His best years came with Utah from 1979 to 1986, but the burly low-post scorer from Notre Dame played for seven teams in 15 seasons. He averaged 24.3 points per game, topped 30.0 points for four consecutive seasons and won two NBA scoring titles. Everyone ahead of him in career scoring average is either in the Hall or will be once eligible, along with many behind him.
"He could get out to 15 feet. He could take it to the basket. And he could get off his shots against taller guys, in traffic,'' said Miami assistant coach Bob McAdoo, a Hall of Famer who played with Dantley in Buffalo in 1976-77 and against him the rest of McAdoo's career. "He was so strong, he'd just muscle guys. He should be in.''
Another Hall of Famer, Bill Walton, put it more hyperbolically not long ago, calling Dantley's omission "one of the most egregious errors in the history of basketball.''
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2. Dennis Johnson
Dennis Johnson (right) was a key part of the Celtics' classic battles with Magic Johnson and the Lakers.
Dennis Johnson (right) was a key part of the Celtics' classic battles with Magic Johnson and the Lakers.
AP
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Johnson won one NBA title in Seattle (1979) and two in Boston (1984, 1986), earning the Finals MVP after the first one, then blending into the greater Celtics whole. Meanwhile, he was named to nine All-Defensive first or second teams and played in five All-Star games. He averaged 14.1 points and 5.0 assists in 1,100 games.
"Sometimes you can look and say, 'Well, his statistics ...' But the teams he played on won,'' said Kevin McHale, part of Boston's Hall of Fame frontcourt in the 1980s. "He was a guy who was a big-game player, did so many different things, defended, did a lot of stuff you didn't see on the stat sheet. But he was a reason we were a championship team.''
Sadly, Johnson died last February at age 52 while working his way back up the coaching ranks from the D-League. "He really 'got' the whole thing of working with guys,' '' McHale said. "I was really happy for him. I was sad when I heard about it, but I knew he was in a good place.''
3. Chet Walker
Walker was a seven-time NBA All-Star, averaged 18.2 points and 7.1 rebounds as a pro, was the second option on the 1966-67 Philadelphia 76ers (one of the greatest teams in league history) and was an All-American at Bradley. So why isn't he in? Some contend that Walker, as one of the plaintiffs in the league's historic "Oscar Robertson'' labor fight for free agency, has been blackballed from the Hall. Because it's hard to know who votes, it's hard to seek out their denials in Walker's case.
4. Spencer Haywood
Haywood is another player toting around some political baggage. He left the University of Detroit after one season there, at age 20, to sign with the ABA Denver Nuggets. After leading that upstart league in scoring and rebounding, Haywood signed with Seattle, upsetting both the ABA and a bunch of NBA teams that had no provisions at the time for underclassmen. To settle the squabble, the NBA created its "hardship clause,'' while Haywood settled into a solid career (19.2 ppg, 9.3 rpg) with several teams, picking up a ring with the Lakers in 1980.
5. Artis Gilmore
Gilmore currently is waiting out the Hall's probationary period after not attracting enough interest in his previous eligibility period. Why not? All the 7-foot-2 center with the wicked sideburns did was average 18.1 points and 12.3 rebounds for 17 ABA/NBA seasons while playing in 11 All-Star games.
6. Don Nelson
The view here is, Halls of Fame mostly are for players. But in Nelson's case, as with a few others, we'll make an exception. A two-time NBA Coach of the Year, Nelson ranks second in coaching victories and long has been considered one of the game's great innovators. With his five championships in 14 seasons as a player, Nellie has been involved in more NBA competition than any other man.
We'll put in a bonus plug here for Bill Fitch, the former North Dakota and Minnesota Gophers coach who helped the Celtics win it all in 1981, got back to the finals with the Rockets in 1986 and won 944 games in 25 seasons.
7. Rudy Tomjanovich
Terrific player, successful coach and one of the NBA's tragic figures who made it all the way back. Tomjanovich was a five-time All-Star for Houston before suffering a near-fatal punch from the Lakers' Kermit Washington in 1977. After recovering, Rudy T returned but his production slid the next three seasons. He took over as Rockets coach in 1993 and, with Olajuwon in 1994 and 1995, won consecutive NBA titles while Michael Jordan was chasing curveballs.
8. Johnny (Red) Kerr
As a contributor, for sure, but as a player or coach, too, Kerr belongs in the Hall. A college star at Illinois, Kerr helped Syracuse win the NBA title in his rookie season in 1955. He was the league's first "iron man,'' playing in 844 consecutive games, and he averaged a double-double (13.8 ppg, 11.2 rpg) over 12 seasons. The teams he played on reached the playoffs every year, so maybe it shouldn't have been a surprise when he coached Chicago, as an expansion team, into the playoffs in its initial season. Kerr has been a Bulls broadcaster and ambassador of the game ever since, extending his league involvement beyond 50 years.
Tex Winter, frankly, is another graybeard who deserves to be in Springfield, but his college achievements should get him in, not just his work with the Bulls' and Lakers' triangle offense.
9. Bernard King
King hasn't made it in despite a 22.5 scoring average that he boosted by two points in the postseason. Nor has his league scoring trophy (32.9 in 1984-85), 51.8 percent shooting accuracy, four All-Star appearances or inspiring comeback from major knee surgery earned him enshrinement. King's alleged drug use might be a hang-up for some voters, which also could explain Walter Davis' absence from the Hall.
10. Dennis Rodman
There simply is no reason to have a Hall of Fame if you're going to snub a wiry, 6-foot-7 forward who managed to win seven consecutive rebounding titles and play for five NBA championships. Odds are, it isn't what Rodman has or hasn't done on the court that prevents him from getting into this place; it's what he might be inclined to do at the induction ceremony that could have voters shying away. Of course, by wearing one of his elegant gowns, with a feather boa, Rodman could satisfy fans of both the men's and the women's game at this so-inclusive Hall.
Steve Aschburner covered the Minnesota Timberwolves and the NBA for 13 seasons for the Minneapolis Star Tribune. He has served as president or vice president of the Professional Basketball Writers Association since 2005.
1. 75-76 Topps Keith/Jamaal Wilkes in Psa 8+
2. 1971-72 Trio stickers PSA 8+
3. BSKB 1977-78 topps psa 10
Basketball Autos
1992 Courtside Flashback
Action Packed HOF Autos(need elvin hayes,both bill bradley,and the 1st bill walton)
2001 and 2005 Greats of the Game
UD=retro,epic,legends,legendary,generations and chronology
2006 Topps Style 1952 Fan Favorites Autos #/10 (Refractor Autos)
Press Pass Legends
While I agree that Dantley's best statistical years were in that run in Utah, his too short, but undeniably excellent, tenure in Detroit shouldn't be overlooked. That trade, in which the Pistons offloaded two guys I didn't like (Tripucka and Kent Benson) for one that I always had, put them on my radar for real. Adrian played some of the most fearless, dazzling ball I have ever seen from a guy his size. Like that whole team, he played flat out, all the time.
Just as an aside about something that has always rubbed me the wrong way...the ABA and it's players, as a rule, get the bad end of the stick, historically. In refusing to count the stats officially, the NBA shows itself to be insecure and churlish. With Auerbach finally off to that Great Parque Floor In The Sky, it's time for them to rectify that and treat the numbers with their due respect (as the NFL does the AFL statistics.) Julius Erving, for one, would take his more rightful place on the various lists.
<< <i>Just as an aside about something that has always rubbed me the wrong way...the ABA and it's players, as a rule, get the bad end of the stick, historically. In refusing to count the stats officially, the NBA shows itself to be insecure and churlish. With Auerbach finally off to that Great Parque Floor In The Sky, it's time for them to rectify that and treat the numbers with their due respect (as the NFL does the AFL statistics.) Julius Erving, for one, would take his more rightful place on the various lists. >>
Excellent point. And I think it's important to remember that it's the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame. People tend to forget that. So why give the ABA players the shaft? Gilmore is not even eligible again until 2012 after getting zero votes three years in a row from an anonymous committee. It needs a total revamp IMO.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
On the Hall of Fame debate I am usually pretty neutral. I can see the point about Dantley being in and I can see why he has yet to be elected. I do feel there are 4 factors keeping him out:
1) He is thought of as one dimensional - I worked out his scoring as representing 66% of his value. I think the only other player with a higher value is George Gervin at 68%.
2) He played in "only" six all-star games and was only selected a member of the all-NBA second team twice.
3) Looked at quickly his play-off statistics are lower than his regular season stats and he played in very few play-off series.
4) The Pistons won after they traded him for Mark Aguire - a trade that was lobbied for by Isiah Thomas and that the Pistons ended up coughing up a first round pick as well.
Eventually I think he will get into the Hall of Fame.
The player I would most like to see elected who has been bypassed is Sidney Moncrief.
Mark
<< <i>Does anybody have any extra NBA HOF RCs or Autos? I was looking to start both of these sets, possibly. Also looking for potential HOF RCs, as well (King, Dantley, etc.)...
Mark >>
Hi, I collect Basketball HOF autos too, you can see my set registry in my sign at the botton there. I currently only have 6 cards, but I am trying to get some cards ready for grading, but I never get the time. I was getting cards ready for grading under the $5.00 special but missed that too, lol. I gotta stop being lazy, and send some in soon, so check back as I will eventualy add more cards to my set.
I do have many HOF members doubles available for trade. I currently have an extra DeBusshere auto, but I twill need a high end HOF auto for that one. I have many other members doubles too. Please feel free to PM me with a list of what you have for trade, and I will do the same. I don't do RC, only autos, so I will only trade for auto, not RC.
Giovanni
<< <i> Looked at quickly his play-off statistics are lower than his regular season stats and he played in very few play-off series. >>
I think that bespeaks of him playing a more team oriented game in the playoffs. I know that that horrible head to head collision between AD and Vinnie Johnson which took them both off the floor finished their chances in that '87 series against Boston. That was about as empty a feeling as I've ever had as a sports fan (although I can call some others to mind, unfortunately...)
<< <i>The player I would most like to see elected who has been bypassed is Sidney Moncrief. >>
I need to keep better track of who is in and who isn't. His absence is simply indefensible
I think some writers tend to just observe those numbers and assume he did not elevate his game in the play-offs. But if you put them in context, the years his teams were in the play-offs his numbers were improved, especially his rebounding and he did get to the line more. I do not know if he played a more team oriented game in the play-offs (his assists did not rise at all) but he did help his team in more ways than just scoring.
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
shagrotn77 - Moncrief certainly does not have eye popping stats. He does have the following in his favour:
2 time NBA defensive player of the year
1 time all-NBA first team
4 time all-NBA second team
4 time all-NBA defensive first team
1 time all-NBA defensive second team
In the years he played for Milwaukee (79-89) the Bucks won an AVERAGE of 52 games per season. He was easily the Bucks best player between at least 81 and 86. The Bucks were the 4th best team in the league practically every year. They have 0 Hall of Famers.
He was probably the second best rebounding guard of his era behind Magic. He elevated his game significantly in the play-offs.
His dominant period might have been too short and his career totals are certainly not impressive and I understand that works against him. If I could choose one player that was not in the Hall of Fame (that is eligible) to build a team around I would choose Moncrief.
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
centering stinks, but was fun as hell pulling.
J
RIP GURU
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
February 15th: 2008 Finalists will be announced on NBA TV.
Doesn't specify a time. Let's go A.D. and D.J.!!!
For the 10 years Moncrief played with the Bucks:
The Celtics had Bird, McHale, Parish, Cowens, Walton, Maravich, Archibald and coach K.C. Jones - really only Bird, McHale and Parish would be considered HOFers based on their play with the Celtics over that 10 year span. The others are in the Hall for their play elsewhere or for earlier in their career.
The Sixers had Erving, Malone, Barkley and coach Billy Cunningham.
The Lakers had Magic, Kareem, Worthy and Bob Mcadoo. With Mcadoo in the Hall for play outside of L.A.
The Bucks had Bob Lanier for three years at the end of his career and Dave Cowens and Tiny Archibald for abbreviated one year stints.
Average Wins per season over Moncrief's 10 years
Celtics 59
Lakers 59
Sixers 54
Bucks 52
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Giovanni
1980 topps rc, wow!
j
RIP GURU