To Neostar, who wondered if it was a fluke. I thought I had no chance... but here they are.
And to the Gritsman, I bet you do get your replacement. One of my plat boxes was returns, and they said I had no hope of getting replacements. Of course, it took more than one phone call to deal with the returns, and I finally - perhaps luckily - spoke with a person who personally saw to it that I got coins instead of a refund. They made it happen. The others didn't or couldn't.
PS: The website showed "Fedex" but in reality it was US Mail. I was extremely concerned when Fedex had no clue and I had no package. Then the mailman showed up!
To Neostar, who wondered if it was a fluke. I thought I had no chance... but here they are.
No fluke here. UPS delivered them this morning. I guess the move to the new fulfillment center slowed them down a bit and they are just getting around to finish delivering the rest of the stuff...
If platinum gets back up to $2000, it will be time for Round 2 of "Melt the Keys!"
>> << Update: 2008-W Silver Eagle sales 444,558 sold + 47,888 unc. dollar sets, - 47,000 reverse of 2007. ( TOTAL 445,446 ) >>
This seems like they are fewer than the current series kings, the 2006-W ???<<
Maybe, but for those who want the coins in original government single-coin packaging, the 2006-W is still the king at 200,000. Most of the other 270,000 are tied up in the 3-coin silver eagle set and the 2-coin gold and silver uncirculated set, and are not available in the single-coin market.
<< <i>>>I think platinum is starting its slow climb.<<
If platinum gets back up to $2000, it will be time for Round 2 of "Melt the Keys!"
>> << Update: 2008-W Silver Eagle sales 444,558 sold + 47,888 unc. dollar sets, - 47,000 reverse of 2007. ( TOTAL 445,446 ) >>
This seems like they are fewer than the current series kings, the 2006-W ???<<
Maybe, but for those who want the coins in original government single-coin packaging, the 2006-W is still the king at 200,000. Most of the other 270,000 are tied up in the 3-coin silver eagle set and the 2-coin gold and silver uncirculated set, and are not available in the single-coin market. >>
So glad that I sold my Plat uncs sets and singles 6 weeks ago now that Plat is going up and I see that the sets are going for $700 more than I sold for. I see NYCs raw set bid upto about $3200 with a day left (contrats NYC!). I should have listened to 7 over 8 and held longer. Ugh.
The 2008-W $100.00 Platinum eagles are also doing very well on e-bay. Examples still in their mint packaging are selling for $1500.00 in legitimate auctions, and PCGS-70 examples are selling for $1800.00. Not bad for a coin that you could recently purchase for $1,069.00 from the mint!
I wonder what a 2006-W $100.00 Platinum eagle in PCGS-70 would sell for now, as there have not been any transactions lately?
So glad that I sold my Plat uncs sets and singles 6 weeks ago now that Plat is going up and I see that the sets are going for $700 more than I sold for. I see NYCs raw set bid upto about $3200 with a day left (contrats NYC!). I should have listened to 7 over 8 and held longer. Ugh.
Incredibly, that set closed at a price of $3849. A sealed box set closed last week at $3350.
I'm not sure how to interpret this, especially while PCGS MS70 sets are listed with BIN prices of $3899 (one of which I quickly purchased). Maybe there's a strong market for original unopened sets? More likely competitive bidding and imperfect information.
The 2008-W $100.00 Platinum eagles are also doing very well on e-bay. Examples still in their mint packaging are selling for $1500.00 in legitimate auctions, and PCGS-70 examples are selling for $1800.00. Not bad for a coin that you could recently purchase for $1,069.00 from the mint!
I wonder what a 2006-W $100.00 Platinum eagle in PCGS-70 would sell for now, as there have not been any transactions lately?
Comments?
The prices on the 2008s are hard to assess. If 7over8's theory is correct, bids might reflect that there are less available than sales numbers indicate. Or maybe people see this as a combined numismatic/bullion play. $1500 on a raw 1 oz coin comes out to $1360 after transaction costs, about a 25% return on investment. Nothing to complain about, but also not going to make anyone rich. I'm not predicting that platinum will return to June 2008 levels, but anyone who thinks it could might not see $1500 as a bad deal.
I think anyone with 2006-ws is riding this out as long as they can. They tend to be listed with BIN prices, which doesn't attract a lot of action. It would take a lot of guts to try a true auction on one in this market since there just aren't enough recent sales to give a decent picture of the current market.
Even when the final mintage numbers of all the plats are known, we still won't know how many of each date and denomination have been melted. Many 2006-W and 2007-W ounce and half-ounce burnished coins were sold for scrap when platinum was over $2000, and the same fate may be in store for some 2008-W burnished plats if the metal reaches that price again. The same goes for proofs, since melting of common dates has been going on for years.
If mintages of 2006-W and 2008-W burnished plats turn out to be close to each other, we will likely never know which date has the lowest surviving population, at least for the larger coins.
Just received some of my 2008 Proof Platinum 1/10 oz coins today at my post office box. The Mint is not shipping registered anymore or even requiring a signature. They were just put into a locked box at the post office.
If this is the way they are shipping, their security is terrible and I don't see how PCGS can use the box as proof of when it was mailed for first strike coins. It just had one regular piece of tape around the box.
<< <i>So glad that I sold my Plat uncs sets and singles 6 weeks ago now that Plat is going up and I see that the sets are going for $700 more than I sold for. I see NYCs raw set bid upto about $3200 with a day left (contrats NYC!). I should have listened to 7 over 8 and held longer. Ugh.
Incredibly, that set closed at a price of $3849. A sealed box set closed last week at $3350.
I'm not sure how to interpret this, especially while PCGS MS70 sets are listed with BIN prices of $3899 (one of which I quickly purchased). Maybe there's a strong market for original unopened sets? More likely competitive bidding and imperfect information. >>
Congrats on that acution!!!!!
I was just stunned. I have to think that there was some imperfect info. I'm just kicking myself so hard for selling three unopened sets for $2600 not a month ago. Definitely going to hold onto some buffs. instead of selling them all. It will be very interesting to follow future sets.
My sense is that perhaps 15% of the 2006-W $100.00 platinum coins were scrapped during the great platinum run-up last summer.
If that is the case, then we have a starting mintage of 3060 less approximately 459 (or 15%) coins scrapped, for a surviving population of only 2601 for the largest (and among the most beautiful) of the platinum coins.
I have always preferred the $100.00 coins, and they are the most impressive in terms of size and heft, and the most beautiful to view given the large and easily-visible design area.
My sense from looking at other series over the last 100 years is that ultimately collectors want the biggest example of an issue, rather than the smallest.
For example, if money were no object, would you rather have a Panama-Pacific $50.00 gold coin or a Panama-Pacific $2.50 coin? Which is the more physically impressive and artistically beautiful?
The $50.00, of course ...
Further, if you were a type collector, and wanted just one example each of the foundations of Government series, would you choose the largest or smallest example (given that all the mintages are relatively low)?
I suspect you would want the silver-dollar size coin for your type collection.
I sent off a 2006 proof plat set for melting last year.
When I sold them I asked my dealer if they would get melted - he said most likely because finding a collector/buyer at $2,200/ounce would not be easy and his buyer did not want to hold at anything at that price.
<< <i>Even when the final mintage numbers of all the plats are known, we still won't know how many of each date and denomination have been melted. Many 2006-W and 2007-W ounce and half-ounce burnished coins were sold for scrap when platinum was over $2000, and the same fate may be in store for some 2008-W burnished plats if the metal reaches that price again. The same goes for proofs, since melting of common dates has been going on for years.
If mintages of 2006-W and 2008-W burnished plats turn out to be close to each other, we will likely never know which date has the lowest surviving population, at least for the larger coins. >>
It is my guess that claims of melting 06-W and 07-W coins is highly exaggerated.
Even if coins were sold for the price of melt I find it unlikely that the coins were actually melted. Although, foolish things do happen on a regular basis.
<< <i>My sense is that perhaps 15% of the 2006-W $100.00 platinum coins were scrapped during the great platinum run-up last summer.
If that is the case, then we have a starting mintage of 3060 less approximately 459 (or 15%) coins scrapped, for a surviving population of only 2601 for the largest (and among the most beautiful) of the platinum coins.
I have always preferred the $100.00 coins, and they are the most impressive in terms of size and heft, and the most beautiful to view given the large and easily-visible design area.
My sense from looking at other series over the last 100 years is that ultimately collectors want the biggest example of an issue, rather than the smallest.
For example, if money were no object, would you rather have a Panama-Pacific $50.00 gold coin or a Panama-Pacific $2.50 coin? Which is the more physically impressive and artistically beautiful?
The $50.00, of course ...
Further, if you were a type collector, and wanted just one example each of the foundations of Government series, would you choose the largest or smallest example (given that all the mintages are relatively low)?
I suspect you would want the silver-dollar size coin for your type collection.
Comments? >>
Even if the coins were not melted, they would have been agressively handled in such a way as to remove them from the MS-69 or MS-70 collectible catagory. They would end up as nicked or dinged MS-60 - 65s.
while I could see proof 2006w(s) getting melted ...I think it's pure folly to believe 2006w uncs, that were selling for more than the highest melt value, at the time, were melted. These coins were only bought by flippers and collectors, not bullion buyers so I seriously doubt there more than a handfull of these coins going to the smelter. The 2004 proofs and the 2006ws will most assuredly have the highest survival rates of any of the platinum coins, but the 2004 proofs were much more widely distrubuted. I'm sure the 2008s will also have very high survival rates vs melting.
while I could see proof 2006w(s) getting melted ...I think it's pure folly to believe 2006w uncs, that were selling for more than the highest melt value, at the time, were melted. These coins were only bought by flippers and collectors, not bullion buyers so I seriously doubt there more than a handfull of these coins going to the smelter. The 2004 proofs and the 2006ws will most assuredly have the highest survival rates of any of the platinum coins, but the 2004 proofs were much more widely distrubuted. I'm sure the 2008s will also have very high survival rates vs melting.
I doubt any 2008s were melted, since spot has stayed below issue price for the 2008s.
I also doubt any 2004 proofs were melted, since the secondary market price has been above melt throughout.
On the 2006w uncirculateds, there were definitely some $100s that hit the melting pot. As platinum broke above $1800, the secondary market price on ebay started to track spot. Accounting for transaction costs, it was probably more lucrative to sell for melt off ebay. A number of folks here reported selling the $100s for bullion value. I doubt it was significant quantities though, I'd be surprised if it was more than 100 coins
With a now closed 3 year ulta low mintage series I doubt we will see any further melting/loss of 2006-W--2008W unc. plats unless there is a huge and sudden spike in spot prices that simply blows away numismatic demand. I'm talking $2,500/oz+
Everyone has to remember that in 2008 platinum spiked from around $1300 to $2300 in 3 months. We were buying 2007-W uncirculated plats as late as Jan.08 for just a few % over spot with a 30 day return. There was no talk of ending fractionals or a limited 3 year series.
When Plat hit $2000 there was little if any numismatic premium for non MS70 2006-Ws or 2007-Ws but there was a huge 50-100% profit over cost for coins purchased as little as 3-15 months earlier.
We will never know for sure how many coins were lost but I have no doubt some were melted.
I think it depends on who is the buyer and at what price they paid. For example here is an old article on the melting of First Spouse coins:
"May 15, 2008 With the price of gold approaching $1,000 an ounce, the temptation increases to sell gold coins to be melted down.
Coin World reports this week that thousands of the first three First Spouse gold coins, which sold out quickly last year when they were offered by the U.S. Mint, have been melted down by a private concern. Gold was hovering at just over $600 an ounce when those half-ounce coins were sold for between $410.95 and $429.95."
I think the total number for those was about 7000 coins, and that was only one melter.
Proves I was right in canceling my last order for 1/4 oz unc AGEs yesterday. Have another order where the cancel box is gone so guess if the pop increases I can just return them.
<< <i>Proves I was right in canceling my last order for 1/4 oz unc AGEs yesterday. Have another order where the cancel box is gone so guess if the pop increases I can just return them. >>
Would the quarters not still be great coins if they come in under 10K?
As I have stated many times before, the order numbers....oops...I mean sales numbers? on the unc-w platinums are not expected to change until a final reconciliation is done which deducts cancelled orders from the sales totals.
<< <i>Proves I was right in canceling my last order for 1/4 oz unc AGEs yesterday. Have another order where the cancel box is gone so guess if the pop increases I can just return them. >>
Would the quarters not still be great coins if they come in under 10K? >>
<< <i>As I have stated many times before, the order numbers....oops...I mean sales numbers? on the unc-w platinums are not expected to change until a final reconciliation is done which deducts cancelled orders from the sales totals. >>
I thought I read numerous posts that said that happened in January. You mean the posted numbers aren't right?
As I have stated many times before, the order numbers....oops...I mean sales numbers? on the unc-w platinums are not expected to change until a final reconciliation is done which deducts cancelled orders from the sales totals.
As I've stated many times before, the numbers don't need to be below 2006 w for the 2008 w coins to be good.
Recent ebay sales prices prove my statement; sets that were $2000 in November have been selling for $3400+.
As for your dreams of 1,000 coin reductions based on your guesses on backorders... well, we're still waiting.
Comments
To Neostar, who wondered if it was a fluke. I thought I had no chance... but here they are.
And to the Gritsman, I bet you do get your replacement. One of my plat boxes was returns, and they said I had no hope of getting replacements. Of course, it took more than one phone call to deal with the returns, and I finally - perhaps luckily - spoke with a person who personally saw to it that I got coins instead of a refund. They made it happen. The others didn't or couldn't.
PS: The website showed "Fedex" but in reality it was US Mail. I was extremely concerned when Fedex had no clue and I had no package. Then the mailman showed up!
No fluke here. UPS delivered them this morning. I guess the move to the new fulfillment center slowed them down a bit and they are just getting around to finish delivering the rest of the stuff...
<< <i>Update: 2008-W Silver Eagle sales 444,558 sold + 47,888 unc. dollar sets, - 47,000 reverse of 2007. ( TOTAL 445,446 ) >>
This seems like they are fewer than the current series kings, the 2006-W ???
<< <i>It is lower, and the prices for the 2008 W's appear to be moving into the 30-40 dollar range, no doubt because I listed a bulk lot of 25....
Everybody was warned a few weeks ago to buy whay you could, being the smart man that you are, you did! I predict $40-50 each before spring
It was showing not available... (?)
If platinum gets back up to $2000, it will be time for Round 2 of "Melt the Keys!"
>> << Update: 2008-W Silver Eagle sales 444,558 sold + 47,888 unc. dollar sets, - 47,000 reverse of 2007. ( TOTAL 445,446 ) >>
This seems like they are fewer than the current series kings, the 2006-W ???<<
Maybe, but for those who want the coins in original government single-coin packaging, the 2006-W is still the king at 200,000. Most of the other 270,000 are tied up in the 3-coin silver eagle set and the 2-coin gold and silver uncirculated set, and are not available in the single-coin market.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>>>I think platinum is starting its slow climb.<<
If platinum gets back up to $2000, it will be time for Round 2 of "Melt the Keys!"
>> << Update: 2008-W Silver Eagle sales 444,558 sold + 47,888 unc. dollar sets, - 47,000 reverse of 2007. ( TOTAL 445,446 ) >>
This seems like they are fewer than the current series kings, the 2006-W ???<<
Maybe, but for those who want the coins in original government single-coin packaging, the 2006-W is still the king at 200,000. Most of the other 270,000 are tied up in the 3-coin silver eagle set and the 2-coin gold and silver uncirculated set, and are not available in the single-coin market. >>
So glad that I sold my Plat uncs sets and singles 6 weeks ago now that Plat is going up and I see that the sets are going for $700 more than I sold for. I see NYCs raw set bid upto about $3200 with a day left (contrats NYC!). I should have listened to 7 over 8 and held longer. Ugh.
are selling for $1500.00 in legitimate auctions, and PCGS-70 examples are selling for $1800.00. Not bad for a
coin that you could recently purchase for $1,069.00 from the mint!
I wonder what a 2006-W $100.00 Platinum eagle in PCGS-70 would sell for now, as there have not been any
transactions lately?
Comments?
Incredibly, that set closed at a price of $3849. A sealed box set closed last week at $3350.
I'm not sure how to interpret this, especially while PCGS MS70 sets are listed with BIN prices of $3899 (one of which I quickly purchased). Maybe there's a strong market for original unopened sets? More likely competitive bidding and imperfect information.
are selling for $1500.00 in legitimate auctions, and PCGS-70 examples are selling for $1800.00. Not bad for a
coin that you could recently purchase for $1,069.00 from the mint!
I wonder what a 2006-W $100.00 Platinum eagle in PCGS-70 would sell for now, as there have not been any
transactions lately?
Comments?
The prices on the 2008s are hard to assess. If 7over8's theory is correct, bids might reflect that there are less available than sales numbers indicate.
Or maybe people see this as a combined numismatic/bullion play. $1500 on a raw 1 oz coin comes out to $1360 after transaction costs, about a 25% return on investment. Nothing to complain about, but also not going to make anyone rich. I'm not predicting that platinum will return to June 2008 levels, but anyone who thinks it could might not see $1500 as a bad deal.
I think anyone with 2006-ws is riding this out as long as they can. They tend to be listed with BIN prices, which doesn't attract a lot of action. It would take a lot of guts to try a true auction on one in this market since there just aren't enough recent sales to give a decent picture of the current market.
If mintages of 2006-W and 2008-W burnished plats turn out to be close to each other, we will likely never know which date has the lowest surviving population, at least for the larger coins.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
If this is the way they are shipping, their security is terrible and I don't see how PCGS can use the box as proof of when it was mailed for first strike coins. It just had one regular piece of tape around the box.
<< <i>So glad that I sold my Plat uncs sets and singles 6 weeks ago now that Plat is going up and I see that the sets are going for $700 more than I sold for. I see NYCs raw set bid upto about $3200 with a day left (contrats NYC!). I should have listened to 7 over 8 and held longer. Ugh.
Incredibly, that set closed at a price of $3849. A sealed box set closed last week at $3350.
I'm not sure how to interpret this, especially while PCGS MS70 sets are listed with BIN prices of $3899 (one of which I quickly purchased). Maybe there's a strong market for original unopened sets? More likely competitive bidding and imperfect information. >>
Congrats on that acution!!!!!
I was just stunned. I have to think that there was some imperfect info. I'm just kicking myself so hard for selling three unopened sets for $2600 not a month ago. Definitely going to hold onto some buffs. instead of selling them all. It will be very interesting to follow future sets.
run-up last summer.
If that is the case, then we have a starting mintage of 3060 less approximately 459 (or 15%) coins scrapped,
for a surviving population of only 2601 for the largest (and among the most beautiful) of the platinum coins.
I have always preferred the $100.00 coins, and they are the most impressive in terms of size and heft,
and the most beautiful to view given the large and easily-visible design area.
My sense from looking at other series over the last 100 years is that ultimately collectors want the biggest
example of an issue, rather than the smallest.
For example, if money were no object, would you rather have a Panama-Pacific $50.00 gold coin or a
Panama-Pacific $2.50 coin? Which is the more physically impressive and artistically beautiful?
The $50.00, of course ...
Further, if you were a type collector, and wanted just one example each of the foundations of Government
series, would you choose the largest or smallest example (given that all the mintages are relatively low)?
I suspect you would want the silver-dollar size coin for your type collection.
Comments?
On another note, is this site slowww, or is it my system?
When I sold them I asked my dealer if they would get melted - he said most likely because finding a collector/buyer at $2,200/ounce would not be easy and his buyer did not want to hold at anything at that price.
<< <i>Even when the final mintage numbers of all the plats are known, we still won't know how many of each date and denomination have been melted. Many 2006-W and 2007-W ounce and half-ounce burnished coins were sold for scrap when platinum was over $2000, and the same fate may be in store for some 2008-W burnished plats if the metal reaches that price again. The same goes for proofs, since melting of common dates has been going on for years.
If mintages of 2006-W and 2008-W burnished plats turn out to be close to each other, we will likely never know which date has the lowest surviving population, at least for the larger coins. >>
It is my guess that claims of melting 06-W and 07-W coins is highly exaggerated.
Even if coins were sold for the price of melt I find it unlikely that the coins were actually melted. Although, foolish things do happen on a regular basis.
<< <i>My sense is that perhaps 15% of the 2006-W $100.00 platinum coins were scrapped during the great platinum
run-up last summer.
If that is the case, then we have a starting mintage of 3060 less approximately 459 (or 15%) coins scrapped,
for a surviving population of only 2601 for the largest (and among the most beautiful) of the platinum coins.
I have always preferred the $100.00 coins, and they are the most impressive in terms of size and heft,
and the most beautiful to view given the large and easily-visible design area.
My sense from looking at other series over the last 100 years is that ultimately collectors want the biggest
example of an issue, rather than the smallest.
For example, if money were no object, would you rather have a Panama-Pacific $50.00 gold coin or a
Panama-Pacific $2.50 coin? Which is the more physically impressive and artistically beautiful?
The $50.00, of course ...
Further, if you were a type collector, and wanted just one example each of the foundations of Government
series, would you choose the largest or smallest example (given that all the mintages are relatively low)?
I suspect you would want the silver-dollar size coin for your type collection.
Comments? >>
Even if the coins were not melted, they would have been agressively handled in such a way as to remove
them from the MS-69 or MS-70 collectible catagory. They would end up as nicked or dinged MS-60 - 65s.
I'll get the ball rolling...
New numbers today?!?
Gold up $15
I doubt any 2008s were melted, since spot has stayed below issue price for the 2008s.
I also doubt any 2004 proofs were melted, since the secondary market price has been above melt throughout.
On the 2006w uncirculateds, there were definitely some $100s that hit the melting pot. As platinum broke above $1800, the secondary market price on ebay started to track spot. Accounting for transaction costs, it was probably more lucrative to sell for melt off ebay. A number of folks here reported selling the $100s for bullion value. I doubt it was significant quantities though, I'd be surprised if it was more than 100 coins
Everyone has to remember that in 2008 platinum spiked from around $1300 to $2300 in 3 months.
We were buying 2007-W uncirculated plats as late as Jan.08 for just a few % over spot with a 30 day return.
There was no talk of ending fractionals or a limited 3 year series.
When Plat hit $2000 there was little if any numismatic premium for non MS70 2006-Ws or 2007-Ws but there was a huge 50-100% profit over cost for coins purchased as little as 3-15 months earlier.
We will never know for sure how many coins were lost but I have no doubt some were melted.
"May 15, 2008 With the price of gold approaching $1,000 an ounce, the temptation increases to sell gold coins to be melted down.
Coin World reports this week that thousands of the first three First Spouse gold coins, which sold out quickly last year when they were offered by the U.S. Mint, have been melted down by a private concern. Gold was hovering at just over $600 an ounce when those half-ounce coins were sold for between $410.95 and $429.95."
I think the total number for those was about 7000 coins, and that was only one melter.
1
.5
.25
.1
4 SET
888 SET
8691
2361
6167
10379
3007
7360
THATS
11,598
12,728...going to be a dog
9,174 ....needs to sell out soon
13,386...looks like a very good coin (Younique called that one)
<< <i>Proves I was right in canceling my last order for 1/4 oz unc AGEs yesterday. Have another order where the cancel box is gone so guess if the pop increases I can just return them. >>
Would the quarters not still be great coins if they come in under 10K?
<< <i>
<< <i>Proves I was right in canceling my last order for 1/4 oz unc AGEs yesterday. Have another order where the cancel box is gone so guess if the pop increases I can just return them. >>
Would the quarters not still be great coins if they come in under 10K? >>
I think so! Give it five years.
The now closed 3 year W uncirculated gold series may be a popular subset of eagles and the 2008-W $10 1/4 will likely be the key.
Allow time for sellout and dispersal of hoards.............
<< <i>As I have stated many times before, the order numbers....oops...I mean sales numbers? on the unc-w platinums are not expected to change until a final reconciliation is done which deducts cancelled orders from the sales totals. >>
I thought I read numerous posts that said that happened in January. You mean the posted numbers aren't right?
As I've stated many times before, the numbers don't need to be below 2006 w for the 2008 w coins to be good.
Recent ebay sales prices prove my statement; sets that were $2000 in November have been selling for $3400+.
As for your dreams of 1,000 coin reductions based on your guesses on backorders... well, we're still waiting.
Ren(W)
You're still waiting for the numbers too......
just like I am.
7/8