<< <i>Yes the following might seem totally off topic, but isn't...
Fourth quarterly income taxes are due by 1/15/09, NOT 12/31/08...correct?
I ask, because with all my gold and plat cc bills coming in, I'd rather not have to jump through hoops to also have to send out a check to the IRS in the next week and a half...! >>
Per my accountant: Fourth quarter estimated tax payments are due by 1/15/09. However, if you're in the "HENRY" income bracket and are likely to get hosed by the AMT, you may decide to pay the state est. payment by 12/31/08. If you think that you're definitely going to get hit with the AMT in 08 anyway, this may help to keep you out of it in 09. PLEASE get as much of your very hard earned $ into the Govt. ASAP so that it may be utterly wasted without haste....
<< <i>It is hard to believe it is time again for the new mintage numbers tomorrow. The way things have been going we will probably know nothing more than we know today. >>
Maybe, just maybe, for us True Belivers in the unc plats, the mint will be Santa Clause and post the real numbers!
FloridaBill (and yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause....)
$3357 Holy Cow! May be time to start selling the herd! I certainly don't want to miss the prime prices, most of the prime moderns peaked early and then kept going down....
May be time to start selling the herd! I certainly don't want to miss the prime prices, most of the prime moderns peaked early and then kept going down....
Ah, heck. You never know. They might be "worth something" one day.
Maybe, just maybe, for us True Belivers in the unc plats, the mint will be Santa Clause and post the real numbers!
FloridaBill (and yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause....)
Yes! Yes we can! If FloridaBill believes, there IS hope!!!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
FB - I'll conceed the "contest". MCM has a fine organization and does a great deal of platinum business. While proof platinum was the #1 item I personally handled all year long, I frankly could not even buy enough coins this year to fill all the open orders I had (and still have). Maybe next year, I can find hoards and hoards of coins and give MCM a "run for their money".
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Maybe next year, I can find hoards and hoards of coins
You mean, there are still hoards of Plats out there? Does anyone have a feel for how many Proofs from the higher mintage years 1997 to 2002 got melted?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Clearly the minor adjustments made to the Buffalo headcounts and the platinum proof set revision shows that there ARE adjustments being made to the figures, so the failure to make any adjustment to the platinum uncirculated numbers is hard to explain for anyone hoping for major revisions.
On the other hand, it's probably better that the platinum uncirculated numbers stay the same, which at least leaves open a possibility they are being ignored. If they were revised up or down slightly, that would be worse.
Looks like the 2006 w unc stay as the kings. It has been two months and these numbers aren't changing so they must have stripped out the backorders already and these are close to final.
Also i see they added the 8 8 8 prosperity set sales at 4563. Maybe they only did 5000 sets as it is still available.
Good news for the proof platinums, they are the kings it appears and buffaloes stay at the low mintages.
yeh me three,I'm glad I was online that day.I backed the semi up and bought alot.I really like the numbers on the half plat proof.I got 25 of them between my singles and sets.
RED BOOK MINTAGE ERROR: The mintage numbers do NOT include the set sales. Therefore, they are WRONG.
True, an inexplicable and embarassing error for a book which really only has to update a few numbers each year.
The reported numbers in the redbook cause some to continue to wrongly believe that the 2005 platinum proofs are lower mintage than the 2004s.
Also, there is nothing in the platinum section to indicate that the w-uncirculated coins have the same reverse as the proofs of that year; anyone without prior knowledge would think it was the regular bullion coin with a w mintmark.
The redbook section on platinum, gold and silver bullions needs a serious overhaul.
<< <i>I'm still stunned that the 2004 Platinum Proofs have been undercut by a huge 20-25% for each coin.
With no future fractional platinums we now have a complete series with 2008 enshrined as the key date. >>
Lets hope they STAY DOWN. I cant believe that the numbers changed so little from that FEEDING FRENZY, 12-8-08. And the 4 coin set went DOWN?
Meanwhile, the unc. number remain the same. If I were a rich man, I'd be scooping up all I could as they are thrown overboard Boston Tea Party style. Too, bad they are so expensive even at list price. These will surely be winners in the end.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
The prices for those 2008 plat proof were so high when they first came out I didn't buy any as the amount per coin was shocking.
I guess that is what it took to make the final numbers this low. The prices broke the collector base and now they will have to scramble to find these coins in a couple of years as they are proof coins well under Jackie Robinson UNC numbers.
I think that is what amazes me and we know what that coin sells for. I wouldn't be surprised in ten years for a set of these proof to be $12,000 or more.
<< <i>Since the 1/4 is putting on the most mileage in the mail, to and from customers and the USM (returns) - and even those from the forum sending some back for "so called" damage? (tick marks on BIG pics) again, IMO and a leap of faith - that the 1/4 this time will reign supreme as the lowest produced 08 unc w plat. >>
7/8-- I hope you're right. I don't own any unc-w's, but can't believe that there are available coins (in PCGS70, too!) with <5,000 sales and that they sell so cheap. The down side for ALL unc-w/proof plats is minimal and the upside is extreme. Suppose Pt goes to $10K per ounce in ten years? Suppose collectors and investors (who are looking for "real" assets after the recent crash of "paper" assets) recognize the value in plat eagles. 1995-W ASE off the charts at 25,000 sales. Virtually all APEs have at or fewer than 15,000 sales--huge potential upside.
NOTE: why aren't people talking about 2008 APE proofs? I believe they have the best chance of becoming the new kings--I think we're pretty certain that the Mint won't strike more...they're out of blanks. With Pt @ $2000 and dies good for ~500, they probably didn't press more than 5,000 of each back in April--just a guess. What do you think? >>
I wouldn't be surprised in ten years for a set of these proof to be $12,000 or more.
I hope so.
I bought 2 sets in May for the original price (4119.95 each) and 5 $25s ($609.95 each); maybe I'll breakeven on them after all.
Heck, they're still in the sealed box, so remain First Strike eligible. I'm not a fan of the First Strike conceptually, but the low mintages plus First Strike eligibility might help me reach breakeven sooner rather than later.
Now did you put your money where your mouth was?? I hope so.................
Do I get any credit for a thread on Nov. 15th that was titled........"Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners???" >>
Thanks 2many. It's good to "guess" right, even if it's LESS than 1/2 the time! In 2008, it seems it has been less than 1/4!!! Yes, I did buy a s**t load of 2008 plats. In fact, I was derided for paying $1000 for one of my $10 PR70DCAM FS back on October 1st. Well, $1000 still seems a little excessive, but should look better in 18 months.
Props on the buffs, although I personally do not like them or have any. I have a personal rule that I don't collect/invest in anything where I have too much or too little intrinsic interest.
Fantastic thread! I want to say thank you to everyone who posts on this site. Being new I've learned so much from all of you! Keep em coming and Happy Holidays to you all.
Thanks for the new numbers, NYC! I, too, am glad they finally put in the Double Colonoscopy Set totals. That really blows up the sales on the 1/2-ounce unc buff, so maybe that's likely to be the "type coin" for future collectors.
IMHO...today's numbers from the Mint are what they are...but as previously stated they do not reflect extreme events in regards to large numbers of orders, returns and cancellations that we all know took place either first-hand, through this board, or from our far-ranging contacts in the hobby.
So I think it's fair to say that most if not all of these numbers are going to have to be adjusted (likely downward in the case of sell outs) in the indeterminate future.
And, yes, in the spirit of full disclosure, I own plat uncs & proofs, buffs and gold eagles...so declining numbers would definitely be a nice holiday gift all around!
I know this has been mentioned on this thread before, but it seems numismatists don't have a clue about ASEs, AGEs & APEs. Here is a post from another thread:
Is this just another trick from the mint with the ASE's with some being on burnished planchets and some not? My uncle had bought 8 ounces in different denominations and on the 1/4 ounce coins some have the W and some don't. He only let me see them for a split moment and later last night he said that it looks like the reverse is somewhat different as well. I will need to take a look at these a little closer now but I have not seen anything here on the net saying there are some with a W and some without it. Any info would be nice, thanks.
Someday, the "bullion coins" will attract serious attention. They have everything going for them, sans popularity (that sounds somewhat ludicrous when looking at ASE sales, but just read ^ comment). I've recently added another plus, "People sell them for the bullion content when PMs increase." If that happens too many times, there won't be many APEs left! The only things that I see that could be a barrier to future growth would be price and availability.
My order for a Prosperity Set and a 1/2-oz. Proof plat was placed on 12-08 at 10:31 PM and is still showing "in stock and reserved" with cancel boxes gone. It has been in this status for some time now. I realize that it is just possible that I may never see the plat, but why, especially in the case of the Prosperity Set (which hasn't even gone "backordered" yet) haven't these coins been sent out? Neither of these have ever shown "backordered" on my account page.
<< <i>My order for a Prosperity Set and a 1/2-oz. Proof plat was placed on 12-08 at 10:31 PM and is still showing "in stock and reserved" with cancel boxes gone. It has been in this status for some time now. I realize that it is just possible that I may never see the plat, but why, especially in the case of the Prosperity Set (which hasn't even gone "backordered" yet) haven't these coins been sent out? Neither of these have ever shown "backordered" on my account page. >>
My order date was 12/15/08 for 2 sets....got them today!!!
Since I ordered the Prosperity Set and the plat within the same order, do you think that the questionable status of the availability of the plat is what is holding up my order? Why wouldn't they mail out the Prosperity Set and keep the plat on backorder, or vice versa, assuming at least one of these items will be available? Is my plat on the dreaded "backorder" list, awaiting a return to fill my order? If so, why would my account still say "in stock and reserved"? The cancel boxes disappeared a week ago.
Comments
<< <i>Yes the following might seem totally off topic, but isn't...
Fourth quarterly income taxes are due by 1/15/09, NOT 12/31/08...correct?
I ask, because with all my gold and plat cc bills coming in, I'd rather not have to jump through hoops to also have to send out a check to the IRS in the next week and a half...! >>
Per my accountant: Fourth quarter estimated tax payments are due by 1/15/09. However, if you're in the "HENRY" income bracket and are likely to get hosed by the AMT, you may decide to pay the state est. payment by 12/31/08. If you think that you're definitely going to get hit with the AMT in 08 anyway, this may help to keep you out of it in 09. PLEASE get as much of your very hard earned $ into the Govt. ASAP so that it may be utterly wasted without haste....
<< <i>It is hard to believe it is time again for the new mintage numbers tomorrow. The way things have been going we will probably know nothing more than we know today. >>
Maybe, just maybe, for us True Belivers in the unc plats, the mint will be Santa Clause and post the real numbers!
FloridaBill (and yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause....)
<< <i>Here is another raw buffalo at $3,150 with 23 hour+ to go.
linky >>
$3357 Holy Cow! May be time to start selling the herd! I certainly don't want to miss the prime prices, most of the prime moderns peaked early and then kept going down....
<< <i>Watch this buffalo set......not mine............$3350 with 40 minutes left to auction end.
Not much happened in the last 40 minutes.
Ah, heck. You never know. They might be "worth something" one day.
Maybe, just maybe, for us True Belivers in the unc plats, the mint will be Santa Clause and post the real numbers!
FloridaBill (and yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause....)
Yes! Yes we can! If FloridaBill believes, there IS hope!!!
I knew it would happen.
Who makes the bigger market for Plats? Mitch? MCM?
The Challange was issued in public....let's see the answer....
FloridaBill
Wondercoin
You mean, there are still hoards of Plats out there? Does anyone have a feel for how many Proofs from the higher mintage years 1997 to 2002 got melted?
I knew it would happen.
So...am I to assume that the weekly batch of deceptive sales numbers are due from the Mint at any moment?!?
<< <i>So...am I to assume that the weekly batch of deceptive sales numbers are due from the Mint at any moment?!? >>
I'm feeling good this morning. Those plat uncs. will finally have their day!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<<I'm feeling good this morning. Those plat uncs. will finally have their day! >>
Nah...that day will be the day AFTER I dump mine at a loss!!!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
No change on the platinum w uncirculateds.
Only a small adjustment on platinum proofs (4 coin set drop from 2616 to 2607), similarly minor adjustments on gold buffalos.
Biggest movers were the gold proofs and uncs.
Link
Platinums
Proof
2432 $100
1056 $50
1293 $25
3052 $10
2607 4 coin set (-9)
Unc W
1926 $100
1257 $50
1778 $25
2485 $10
2158 4 coin set
Gold American Eagles
Proof
16327 $50
5808 $25 (+2639)
5314 $10 (+675)
10695 $5 (+360)
9569 set
Unc-W
5176 $50 (+713)
1715 $25 (+116)
2936 $10 (+713)
7178 $5 (+267)
2156 set (+238)
Buffalos
Proof
11659 $50 (+19)
4642 $25 (-12)
5971 $10 (-32)
11362 $5 (+1)
7931 set
Unc w
3145 $50 (-5)
3288 $25 (-7)
4117 $10 (-9)
12644 $5 (+18)
6561 set (-2)
(parenthetical is change from last week's numbers)
I notice they list the 8-8-08 Set Sales at 4,563 Units.
That's the set with a $25 Unc Buff with a "W" + a $25 Unc AGE with a "W"
I wonder if it goes dark near 5K Units?
<< <i>Numismatic News posted the numbers as of December 21.
No change on the platinum w uncirculateds. Only a small adjustment on platinum proofs (4 coin set drop from 2616 to 2607)
Link
Platinum Unc W
1926 $100
1257 $50
1778 $25
2485 $10
2158 4 coin set
Platinum Proof
2432 $100
1056 $50
1293 $25
3052 $10
2607 4 coin set >>
Any change in Buffalos or gold eagles??
See the post above, I revised to include that information.
On the other hand, it's probably better that the platinum uncirculated numbers stay the same, which at least leaves open a possibility they are being ignored. If they were revised up or down slightly, that would be worse.
Also i see they added the 8 8 8 prosperity set sales at 4563. Maybe they only did 5000 sets as it is still available.
Good news for the proof platinums, they are the kings it appears and buffaloes stay at the low mintages.
1 oz.---25896
1/2 oz.--15377
1/4 oz.--14883
1/10th 0z.--20,264
Gold Eagle Proof Keys
1/10 oz. $5 proof 1997 35,164
1/4 oz. $10 proof 2001 25,630
1/2 oz. $25 proof 2001 23,261
Anybody know the key for the 1ozers?
1 oz.---25896"
It seems to me the mintage limit was 25,000.
I thought I saw that $50 Proof number = 24,580 in 2001, 26,060 in 1998 - source a 2007 Red Book
I could be wrong but here are my #'s for Proofs:
1997 = 8029
1998 = 6318
1999 = 7956
If I recall correctly the 1993 (mintage of 10,346) has the lowest (or one of the) population
of PCGS PF70.
<< <i>"AGE Proof totals
1 oz.---25896"
It seems to me the mintage limit was 25,000. >>
From the Mint website:
25,000 single coin limit for $50
35,000 four coin set limit
That would add up to 60,000
True, an inexplicable and embarassing error for a book which really only has to update a few numbers each year.
The reported numbers in the redbook cause some to continue to wrongly believe that the 2005 platinum proofs are lower mintage than the 2004s.
Also, there is nothing in the platinum section to indicate that the w-uncirculated coins have the same reverse as the proofs of that year; anyone without prior knowledge would think it was the regular bullion coin with a w mintmark.
The redbook section on platinum, gold and silver bullions needs a serious overhaul.
With no future fractional platinums we now have a complete series with 2008 enshrined as the key date.
<< <i>I'm still stunned that the 2004 Platinum Proofs have been undercut by a huge 20-25% for each coin.
With no future fractional platinums we now have a complete series with 2008 enshrined as the key date. >>
Lets hope they STAY DOWN. I cant believe that the numbers changed so little from that FEEDING FRENZY, 12-8-08. And the 4 coin set went DOWN?
Meanwhile, the unc. number remain the same. If I were a rich man, I'd be scooping up all I could as they are thrown overboard Boston Tea Party style. Too, bad they are so expensive even at list price. These will surely be winners in the end.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I guess that is what it took to make the final numbers this low. The prices broke the collector base and now they will have to scramble to find these coins in a couple of years as they are proof coins well under Jackie Robinson UNC numbers.
I think that is what amazes me and we know what that coin sells for. I wouldn't be surprised in ten years for a set of these proof to be $12,000 or more.
BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY!
<< <i>
<< <i>Since the 1/4 is putting on the most mileage in the mail, to and from customers and the USM (returns) - and even those from the forum sending some back for "so called" damage? (tick marks on BIG pics) again, IMO and a leap of faith - that the 1/4 this time will reign supreme as the lowest produced 08 unc w plat. >>
7/8-- I hope you're right. I don't own any unc-w's, but can't believe that there are available coins (in PCGS70, too!) with <5,000 sales and that they sell so cheap. The down side for ALL unc-w/proof plats is minimal and the upside is extreme. Suppose Pt goes to $10K per ounce in ten years? Suppose collectors and investors (who are looking for "real" assets after the recent crash of "paper" assets) recognize the value in plat eagles. 1995-W ASE off the charts at 25,000 sales. Virtually all APEs have at or fewer than 15,000 sales--huge potential upside.
NOTE: why aren't people talking about 2008 APE proofs? I believe they have the best chance of becoming the new kings--I think we're pretty certain that the Mint won't strike more...they're out of blanks. With Pt @ $2000 and dies good for ~500, they probably didn't press more than 5,000 of each back in April--just a guess. What do you think? >>
Now did you put your money where your mouth was?? I hope so.................
Do I get any credit for a thread on Nov. 15th that was titled........"Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners???"
I hope so.
I bought 2 sets in May for the original price (4119.95 each) and 5 $25s ($609.95 each); maybe I'll breakeven on them after all.
Heck, they're still in the sealed box, so remain First Strike eligible. I'm not a fan of the First Strike conceptually, but the low mintages plus First Strike eligibility might help me reach breakeven sooner rather than later.
<< <i>The 1/2 ounce proof gold is backorder so it looks like the latest NN numbers are close to final, it will be the new key. >>
<< <i>Kudos to you!
Now did you put your money where your mouth was?? I hope so.................
Do I get any credit for a thread on Nov. 15th that was titled........"Are the fractional Gold Buffalos 2008s winners???" >>
Thanks 2many. It's good to "guess" right, even if it's LESS than 1/2 the time! In 2008, it seems it has been less than 1/4!!! Yes, I did buy a s**t load of 2008 plats. In fact, I was derided for paying $1000 for one of my $10 PR70DCAM FS back on October 1st. Well, $1000 still seems a little excessive, but should look better in 18 months.
Props on the buffs, although I personally do not like them or have any. I have a personal rule that I don't collect/invest in anything where I have too much or too little intrinsic interest.
Ever Onward
The other numbers continue to astonish me!
So I think it's fair to say that most if not all of these numbers are going to have to be adjusted (likely downward in the case of sell outs) in the indeterminate future.
And, yes, in the spirit of full disclosure, I own plat uncs & proofs, buffs and gold eagles...so declining numbers would definitely be a nice holiday gift all around!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Is this just another trick from the mint with the ASE's with some being on burnished planchets and some not? My uncle had bought 8 ounces in different denominations and on the 1/4 ounce coins some have the W and some don't. He only let me see them for a split moment and later last night he said that it looks like the reverse is somewhat different as well. I will need to take a look at these a little closer now but I have not seen anything here on the net saying there are some with a W and some without it. Any info would be nice, thanks.
Someday, the "bullion coins" will attract serious attention. They have everything going for them, sans popularity (that sounds somewhat ludicrous when looking at ASE sales, but just read ^ comment). I've recently added another plus, "People sell them for the bullion content when PMs increase." If that happens too many times, there won't be many APEs left! The only things that I see that could be a barrier to future growth would be price and availability.
Any thoughts?
<< <i>My order for a Prosperity Set and a 1/2-oz. Proof plat was placed on 12-08 at 10:31 PM and is still showing "in stock and reserved" with cancel boxes gone. It has been in this status for some time now. I realize that it is just possible that I may never see the plat, but why, especially in the case of the Prosperity Set (which hasn't even gone "backordered" yet) haven't these coins been sent out? Neither of these have ever shown "backordered" on my account page. >>
My order date was 12/15/08 for 2 sets....got them today!!!