Coolest, I hope you are right. I would have thought they would have moved a little bit. The numbers on the proof are the same basically. I am with Groht 1000% on this.
And what I love the most about these boards is...We are never short of conspiracy theories! God I love these boards. Never a dull moment around here!!!
I haven't done this in a while. This graph compares sales report numbers for the last several years on a weekly basis. This is week number 33 of the sales period for the Platinum Proof Eagles for this year (2008). Care to see how this year's week 33 compare to previous years week 33?
<< <i>There is no way the plat proofs would remain so low after that buying frenzy... >>
Did it ever occur to you that the reason why the proof plats went dark so fast and the numbers only went up 300 or so is that 300 or so is all that was left in stock. What you call a buying frenzy would not take much to clean out the inventory. It was only a mater of ours before the singles went dark after the sets.
Wake up and smell the proofs! They smell good - don't they?
I love the smell of proof plats in the morning - it smells like victory.
I agree with Groht that the numbers don't add up. On the other hand, he say's I'm somebody else. Therefore, he loses some credibility for obvious reasons. Most of the bullion collectibles were short struck. Many of the regular items, proof sets, Sag $'s etc. were also minted in lesser numbers. Isn't it obvious based on all of the early sell-outs that this is a special year for low mintages and keys? You can debate where the final numbers are going to fall, but many high value coins ARE being created. BTW, I was almost completely shut out of the MS plats. On the other hand, I did well with the proofs
I agree with Groht that the numbers don't add up. On the other hand, he say's I'm somebody else. Therefore, he loses some credibility for obvious reasons. Most of the bullion collectibles were short struck. Many of the regular items, proof sets, Sag $'s etc. were also minted in lesser numbers. Isn't it obvious based on all of the early sell-outs that this is a special year for low mintages and keys? You can debate where the final numbers are going to fall, but many high value coins ARE being created. BTW, I was almost completely shut out of the MS plats. On the other hand, I did well with the proofs
Looks like the 2006 unc-w 1/4 might end up King of Kings!?
Unless something dramatic happens with the 2008s, that is correct.
2006-w mintages were insanely low (especially if you consider that the market was pretty strong at the time they were released).
Of course, they are Kings without many followers. The Buffalos might enjoy a better secondary market even with significantly higher mintages, since the collector base for those is likely to be much larger.
So, everyone here knows the collector base lies with the proofs. That was the original argument as to the low mintage uncs. worthlessness. And now we think the Mint decided to crank the presses unequivocally towards the uncs.? All the while at $2200 an ounce? I know we are talking about the US Mint here, but this is beyond even them. The numbers will change, I am sure of this. I like them both, but this is not at all logical. I can buy them being short on blanks, but not cranking out the same number of uncs as last year during a "shortage" and price spike in PMs. On the bright side, I cant see how we can lose on either one. I fully believe that 2008 will be looked back on fondly as the year of opportunities. But just how long into the sunset we will have to wait for the sun to rise again?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I am tapped out also my plat unc. aren't worth selling yet. My buffalo's are at PCGS and I haven't received my platinum proofs yet. I need something to give.
OK guys, got home a little late tonight and had to catch up.
As for the numbers, plat unc's didnt move - and cancellations still have not been deducted. The sales report has been confirmed by the USM Office of Public Affairs as a report that captures ORDERS, is reduced by returns and will be reduced by cancellations.
As for cancellations, it is not known when this reduction takes place. It may take place several weeks out. We just dont know.
My opinion is still the same. All historical trends and special factors this year point to plat unc's being produced in lesser numbers than last years unc-w's AND more importantly, generally to a ratio of 1 to .6 with the same year proof plat counterparts.
I dont make this stuff up, EricJ will confirm my comments on historical relationships between unc plats and proof plats.
The excessive orders taken on the 1/10, 1/4 and 4 coin sets in the unc-w series have not been delivered for a period of 4 to 7 weeks (depending on denomination), hundreds of orders have already been confirmed cancelled that haven't shown up in the weekly numbers, and the proof plat colleagues have sold out with VERY low numbers.
I do believe the 1/2 oz unc-w plat coin "behaved" in terms of going backorder and then selling out, however, I also believe there is possibly 100-150 orders in excess of stock there as well.
I am continuing to poke and prod the right people to get answers on our numbers. We will learn the truth soon, and we will learn a great deal about order taking by the US Mint.
In no way would I count these out in becoming the new kings of the unc-w plats. Hold you comments before declaring the victor until FACTUAL evidence of mintage is known. This will come, sooner than later.
7/8 you know I am with you in the unc numbers, but even if they manage to overtake the 06 coins they will still only be good in the long run where as the Buffs and the Proof plat will likely just keep rising till they hit the moon. JMHO.
2008-w unc plats at sub 2006-w levels I believe will move very quick in the secondary -
one big reason -
Everyone has been caught offgaurd.......returned their mini hoards, to be redistributed in smaller lots....
Well distributed rare coins, throw in a promotion and there you have it - coins that ride alot faster to the top than their proof colleagues and possibly even the buffs.....
<< <i>Looks like the 2006 unc-w 1/4 might end up King of Kings!?
Unless something dramatic happens with the 2008s, that is correct.
2006-w mintages were insanely low (especially if you consider that the market was pretty strong at the time they were released).
Of course, they are Kings without many followers. The Buffalos might enjoy a better secondary market even with significantly higher mintages, since the collector base for those is likely to be much larger. >>
You must mean the 2006 W Unc. 1/2 (2577) not the 1/4 (2676) correct?
<< <i>2008-w unc plats at sub 2006-w levels I believe will move very quick in the secondary -
one big reason -
Everyone has been caught offgaurd.......returned their mini hoards, to be redistributed in smaller lots....
Well distributed rare coins, throw in a promotion and there you have it - coins that ride alot faster to the top than their proof colleagues and possibly even the buffs..... >>
What will this coin bring in a few years???....MS70...non first strike.
I must be smokin. I am looking at the 12-11 numbers from Coin News for these coins and Eric's numbers from this morning and they are all the same. What am I missing?
... My opinion is still the same. All historical trends and special factors this year point to plat unc's being produced in lesser numbers than last years unc-w's AND more importantly, generally to a ratio of 1 to .6 with the same year proof plat counterparts. I dont make this stuff up, EricJ will confirm my comments on historical relationships between unc plats and proof plats.
It's hard to talk about "historical relationships" between the two series; we're really just talking about 2 years. 2006 and 2007 might provide sufficient data to create an expectation, but they don't provide enough to establish a trend. Especially when one considers that 2006 was a partial year, and 2008 has proven to be much different from other years.
In no way would I count these out in becoming the new kings of the unc-w plats.
I agree, don't count them out. But 2006 remain the Kings until proven otherwise.
Hold your comments before declaring the victor until FACTUAL evidence of mintage is known.
<< <i> In no way would I count these out in becoming the new kings of the unc-w plats. Hold you comments before declaring the victor until FACTUAL evidence of mintage is known. This will come, sooner than later. >>
7/8 you can count however you want, but the mint has counted and given us their numbers.
The mint numbers show all four options almost 1000 coins over 2006 UNC levels.
End of story. Right now I hear violins playing.....
The following was originally posted last weekend. This was the original post:
<<Over at Numismaster, the latest Mint Stats through December 7th have been posted. The sales figures for all platinum coins are included below. The first column shows the individual totals per product type. The second column shows the cumulative totals per coin (individual sales plus 4 coin set sales).>>
<<2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Sales Figures>> <<1 oz 1,951 4,109>> <<1/2 oz 1,257 3,415>> <<1/4 oz 1,778 3,936>> <<1/10 oz 2,485 4,643>> <<4 Coin 2,158 >>
Therefore, when comparing these earlier totals to today's numbers, do you all realize that we're looking at stats that are at least 10 days to 2 weeks old?!? Except for the minor change in the 1 ounce numbers, everything has stayed EXACTLY the same. But yet, we all know that Unc. backorders have been cancelled in large numbers in the past couple of weeks...but haven't showed up yet...or am I missing something here?
<< <i>You must mean the 2006 W Unc. 1/2 (2577) not the 1/4 (2676) correct? >>
From my perspective, the lowest doesn't always equal "King." I like the fact that the 1/2 is more affordable & collected, is 69% of the 2nd lowest mintage vs. 75% for the 1/2, one of two sub-3000 across all the plats, and has a PCGS MS70 population that is 28% of all submitted (301/1,075) vs. 45% (438/965) for the $50.
So, for now, the 1/4 PCGS MS70 2006-W burnished is the King of Kings! Is there another modern coin that is likely to sell for more money in 20 years? Okay, the $50 has a shot... guess I'll have to hoard both.
...I'm not discounting the 2008's, but don't see them falling below 3,000. JMHO
<< <i>So, i'll refrain from directly posting my rebuttals to his comments>>
To rebut, you must meet the requirement of intellectual honesty, to which you are sorely lacking on this issue. I am sure it is that mother-load of US Mint Packages full of UNC Platinum that is stacked behind you that is working like Kryptonite against your better judgment and causing you to post the pap. All will be forgiven in about a 4 days when the Stats post again. You better get to sellin’ >>
<< <i>I agree with Groht that the numbers don't add up. On the other hand, he say's I'm somebody else. Therefore, he loses some credibility for obvious reasons. Most of the bullion collectibles were short struck. Many of the regular items, proof sets, Sag $'s etc. were also minted in lesser numbers. Isn't it obvious based on all of the early sell-outs that this is a special year for low mintages and keys? You can debate where the final numbers are going to fall, but many high value coins ARE being created. BTW, I was almost completely shut out of the MS plats. On the other hand, I did well with the proofs >>
Hey BlacknBlack...that was a joke
As far as my posts go...I was trying to get everyone to anaylize the numbers....as a group or even a team per say....hopefully we can all come to the same conclusion....which from what i can tell so far is...the jury is still out until after the Holidays.
They will not come out with new figures till after the 30 day return is over so they will not get a big return on orders and that is it in a nut shell, so all we can do is sit and wait.
You are correct and it was confirmed last week, cancellations of unc plat orders have not been reflected in the sales report.
Hundreds of cancellations have occurred. My count of cancellations on the 1/4 has risen past 311 on the 1/4 to well over 450 coins (from reports from members and other individuals). How about the cancellations of coins for ALL customers?
One forum member reports cancellations of over 400 sets? of platinum uncs.
IMO - given ALL the info available at this time, i'm still looking for the following to be confirmed eventually on the 08-w plat uncs (i've given my opinion on range of production as there is dispute as to what sales level b/o occurred - although i expect the numbers coming in on the low end):
1 oz 1250-1500 1/2 1100-1250 (b/o est. 1250) 1/4 1100-1250 (b/o est. 1000) 1/10 2000-2100 (b/o est. 2046) 4cn 1250-1350 (b/o est 1257)
Comments
<< <i>Anyone notice how few Proof 08-W Plats there are on eBay? Interesting....... >>
Not too many...I picked up a 10th oz'er here link, $245 with the 8% & used my coupon before it expired...
Man, it's hard to type one handed, got baby girl tonight...
<< <i>
<< <i>There is no way the plat proofs would remain so low after that buying frenzy...
Did it ever occur to you that the reason why the proof plats went dark so fast and the numbers only went up 300 or so is that 300 or so is all that was left in stock. What you call a buying frenzy would not take much to clean out the inventory. It was only a mater of ours before the singles went dark after the sets.
Wake up and smell the proofs! They smell good - don't they?
I love the smell of proof plats in the morning - it smells like victory.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
In the gold it seems they gave more to the proof eagles.
Nothing sinister but that is possibly what happened.
Notice in the buffaloes the 1/10 proof and unc are about the same number, are those wrong? I think not.
This is the way the mint baked the cake this year, I am happy with it.
actually, the numbers at this point show more 2008 platinum proofs than w uncirculateds (except for the $25, which is close).
The last column shows the lowest's percentage of the 2nd lowest (red vs. green).
<< <i>
The last column shows the lowest's percentage of the 2nd lowest (red vs. green). Looks like the 2006 unc-w 1/4 might end up King of Kings!? >>
No I believe that would still go the the 2006-W 1/2 ounce.
<< <i>The mint ran out of blanks, it is probably as simple as that. Some had to get more than others and it looks like the mint gave more to the unc.
actually, the numbers at this point show more 2008 platinum proofs than w uncirculateds (except for the $25, which is close). >>
My comment was on a relative scale, not absolute numbers. The unc got more relative to the proofs than the proofs got relative to the unc.
Unless something dramatic happens with the 2008s, that is correct.
2006-w mintages were insanely low (especially if you consider that the market was pretty strong at the time they were released).
Of course, they are Kings without many followers. The Buffalos might enjoy a better secondary market even with significantly higher mintages, since the collector base for those is likely to be much larger.
I know we are talking about the US Mint here, but this is beyond even them. The numbers will change, I am sure of this. I like them both, but this is not at all logical. I can buy them being short on blanks, but not cranking out the same number of uncs as last year during a "shortage" and price spike in PMs.
On the bright side, I cant see how we can lose on either one. I fully believe that 2008 will be looked back on fondly as the year of opportunities. But just how long into the sunset we will have to wait for the sun to rise again?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Charge!
Ren(W)unc
Charge!
I'd better fix bayonets for this charge, since I'm out of ammo.
<< <i>Another $150 and the 4 coin AGE unc will be at spot. Let's not get caught flatfooted.
Charge!
Ren(W)unc >>
These are a clearcut case where I prefer the UNCs. They look great in the burnished finish.
Charge!
jmski can never retire. is all of money in 2008 Platties, Buffys, & Birdies.
I knew it would happen.
As for the numbers, plat unc's didnt move - and cancellations still have not been deducted. The sales report has been confirmed by the USM Office of Public Affairs as a report that captures ORDERS, is reduced by returns and will be reduced by cancellations.
As for cancellations, it is not known when this reduction takes place. It may take place several weeks out. We just dont know.
My opinion is still the same. All historical trends and special factors this year point to plat unc's being produced in lesser numbers than last years unc-w's AND more importantly, generally to a ratio of 1 to .6 with the same year proof plat counterparts.
I dont make this stuff up, EricJ will confirm my comments on historical relationships between unc plats and proof plats.
The excessive orders taken on the 1/10, 1/4 and 4 coin sets in the unc-w series have not been delivered for a period of 4 to 7 weeks (depending on denomination), hundreds of orders have already been confirmed cancelled that haven't shown up in the weekly numbers, and the proof plat colleagues have sold out with VERY low numbers.
I do believe the 1/2 oz unc-w plat coin "behaved" in terms of going backorder and then selling out, however, I also believe there is possibly 100-150 orders in excess of stock there as well.
I am continuing to poke and prod the right people to get answers on our numbers. We will learn the truth soon, and we will learn a great deal about order taking by the US Mint.
In no way would I count these out in becoming the new kings of the unc-w plats. Hold you comments before declaring the victor until FACTUAL evidence of mintage is known. This will come, sooner than later.
<< <i>Seven, Don't you think the proof numbers are messed up also being that they didn't move after the flurry of last week. >>
They did move!
And to very nice numbers.
one big reason -
Everyone has been caught offgaurd.......returned their mini hoards, to be redistributed in smaller lots....
Well distributed rare coins, throw in a promotion and there you have it - coins that ride alot faster to the top than their proof colleagues and possibly even the buffs.....
<< <i>Looks like the 2006 unc-w 1/4 might end up King of Kings!?
Unless something dramatic happens with the 2008s, that is correct.
2006-w mintages were insanely low (especially if you consider that the market was pretty strong at the time they were released).
Of course, they are Kings without many followers. The Buffalos might enjoy a better secondary market even with significantly higher mintages, since the collector base for those is likely to be much larger. >>
You must mean the 2006 W Unc. 1/2 (2577) not the 1/4 (2676) correct?
<< <i>2008-w unc plats at sub 2006-w levels I believe will move very quick in the secondary -
one big reason -
Everyone has been caught offgaurd.......returned their mini hoards, to be redistributed in smaller lots....
Well distributed rare coins, throw in a promotion and there you have it - coins that ride alot faster to the top than their proof colleagues and possibly even the buffs..... >>
What will this coin bring in a few years???....MS70...non first strike.
<< <i>Your right Coolest but the individual 1 oz. 1/2 oz and 1/4 didn't. That doesn't make sense to me. Am I off base with my observation? >>
I see +175 on the 1oz, +25 on the 1/2, and +55 on the 1/4
I still expect to see some increases.
It's hard to talk about "historical relationships" between the two series; we're really just talking about 2 years. 2006 and 2007 might provide sufficient data to create an expectation, but they don't provide enough to establish a trend. Especially when one considers that 2006 was a partial year, and 2008 has proven to be much different from other years.
In no way would I count these out in becoming the new kings of the unc-w plats.
I agree, don't count them out. But 2006 remain the Kings until proven otherwise.
Hold your comments before declaring the victor until FACTUAL evidence of mintage is known.
okay, now that made me smile.
@Raufus: Sorry, I thought the comment was referring to 2006 ws across all denominations. You're right, of course, the 2006w 1/2 is lower than the 1/4.
I still expect to see some increases.
The 2008 proof plats could increase from here, it doesn't matter. There's pretty much no chance they'll end up with higher numbers than 2004.
<< <i>
In no way would I count these out in becoming the new kings of the unc-w plats. Hold you comments before declaring the victor until FACTUAL evidence of mintage is known. This will come, sooner than later. >>
7/8 you can count however you want, but the mint has counted and given us their numbers.
The mint numbers show all four options almost 1000 coins over 2006 UNC levels.
End of story. Right now I hear violins playing.....
<<Over at Numismaster, the latest Mint Stats through December 7th have been posted. The sales figures for all platinum coins are included below. The first column shows the individual totals per product type. The second column shows the cumulative totals per coin (individual sales plus 4 coin set sales).>>
<<2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Sales Figures>>
<<1 oz 1,951 4,109>>
<<1/2 oz 1,257 3,415>>
<<1/4 oz 1,778 3,936>>
<<1/10 oz 2,485 4,643>>
<<4 Coin 2,158 >>
Therefore, when comparing these earlier totals to today's numbers, do you all realize that we're looking at stats that are at least 10 days to 2 weeks old?!? Except for the minor change in the 1 ounce numbers, everything has stayed EXACTLY the same. But yet, we all know that Unc. backorders have been cancelled in large numbers in the past couple of weeks...but haven't showed up yet...or am I missing something here?
<< <i>You must mean the 2006 W Unc. 1/2 (2577) not the 1/4 (2676) correct? >>
From my perspective, the lowest doesn't always equal "King." I like the fact that the 1/2 is more affordable & collected, is 69% of the 2nd lowest mintage vs. 75% for the 1/2, one of two sub-3000 across all the plats, and has a PCGS MS70 population that is 28% of all submitted (301/1,075) vs. 45% (438/965) for the $50.
So, for now, the 1/4 PCGS MS70 2006-W burnished is the King of Kings! Is there another modern coin that is likely to sell for more money in 20 years? Okay, the $50 has a shot... guess I'll have to hoard both.
...I'm not discounting the 2008's, but don't see them falling below 3,000. JMHO
Ya gotta listen to the Logic and throw away that "Hope"
<< <i>7/8..., who's your Big Daddy?
Ya gotta listen to the Logic and throw away that "Hope" >>
With all this trash talk (in writing) you better hope there are no significant changes.
Just like it was called.
There is NO WAY that the 2008 W Proof Plats will lose.
The 2008 W Unc Plats lost weeks ago to the 2006 W Unc Plats.
The Buffs have always been winners, nothing will change that.
<< <i>So, i'll refrain from directly posting my rebuttals to his comments>>
To rebut, you must meet the requirement of intellectual honesty, to which you are sorely lacking on this issue. I am sure it is that mother-load of US Mint Packages full of UNC Platinum that is stacked behind you that is working like Kryptonite against your better judgment and causing you to post the pap. All will be forgiven in about a 4 days when the Stats post again. You better get to sellin’ >>
<< <i>I agree with Groht that the numbers don't add up. On the other hand, he say's I'm somebody else. Therefore, he loses some credibility for obvious reasons. Most of the bullion collectibles were short struck. Many of the regular items, proof sets, Sag $'s etc. were also minted in lesser numbers. Isn't it obvious based on all of the early sell-outs that this is a special year for low mintages and keys? You can debate where the final numbers are going to fall, but many high value coins ARE being created. BTW, I was almost completely shut out of the MS plats. On the other hand, I did well with the proofs
Hey BlacknBlack...that was a joke
As far as my posts go...I was trying to get everyone to anaylize the numbers....as a group or even a team per say....hopefully we can all come to the same conclusion....which from what i can tell so far is...the jury is still out until after the Holidays.
Hoard the keys.
Who said the US Mint could count?
RickR -
You are correct and it was confirmed last week, cancellations of unc plat orders have not been reflected in the sales report.
Hundreds of cancellations have occurred. My count of cancellations on the 1/4 has risen past 311 on the 1/4 to well over 450 coins (from reports from members and other individuals). How about the cancellations of coins for ALL customers?
One forum member reports cancellations of over 400 sets? of platinum uncs.
IMO - given ALL the info available at this time, i'm still looking for the following to be confirmed eventually on the 08-w plat uncs (i've given my opinion on range of production as there is dispute as to what sales level b/o occurred - although i expect the numbers coming in on the low end):
1 oz 1250-1500
1/2 1100-1250 (b/o est. 1250)
1/4 1100-1250 (b/o est. 1000)
1/10 2000-2100 (b/o est. 2046)
4cn 1250-1350 (b/o est 1257)
There should be some stake in this!
I propose a friendly wager, with the stakes being a 2008 or 2006 $10 w uncirculated platinum coin.
halfstrike and coinboy are clearly on the 2006 side; 7over8 is clearly on the 2008 side
Any takers??
OLC,
You are not off base on this. These are the numbers:
WEEKLY SALES REPORT FOR 12/7/2008
1OZ
.5
.25
.1
4 SETS
PROOF PLATINUM EAGLES
2432
1056
1293
2810
2296
SALES REPORT AS OF 12/16/2008
1OZ
.5 OZ
.25 OZ
.1 OZ
4 SETS
PROOF PLATINUM EAGLES
2432
1056
1293
3052
2616