I do not have time to post more but upon analyzing the numbers some things do not make sense...it appears the mint's reported numbers could be very deceptive right now...carefully compare the numbers to last week....some things just do not look right. Gotta go....
What's there to argue about, the numbers for the unc plat w are now almost 8 weeks old for the 1/10 and 1/4. That can't be argued.
I think the 2006 w unc were drastically low mintage to begin with as I said earlier, they had just barely started to warm up the presses when they stopped making those.
To expect 2008 to be THAT LOW was asking a lot, and i think the numbers show that. For the 2008 to tie the 2006 they have to drop about 1000 coins each denomination. That isn't 50 coins, 100 coins, or even 500 coins, it is one thousand coins.
That is almost like asking the impossible.
The proof plat on the other hand would have to go UP by OVER 1000 to tie 2004. Is that likely? NO.
So if we are certain that the 2008 proof plats are the kings then we must also assume the 2006 w unc remain the kings for now.
PS All I can say is I am glad I purchased what I did, and wish I had bought more.
Ericj - Thanks for the sales numbers and all the advice.
With your help and the advice of other thread members (7/8, nycounsel, jimski, etc.) I have accumulated a small herd of buffaloes and flocks of different eagles (AG, AU, & PT). If I accumulate any more, my credit cards will blow up!
I agree with you on the plats, but I think that the sales report is seriously flawed. We could see a drop of 900 sets and that would clear all denominations across the board down to 2006w levels. The #'s stayed the same, and we KNOW that people arent getting what they ordered because they got their orders CANCELLED. I applaud the proofs, but wait patiently on these uncs to have their day as I cannot buy into this report. Not because I dont like what I see, but because it is mathematically unsound.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>What's there to argue about, the numbers for the unc plat w are now almost 8 weeks old for the 1/10 and 1/4. That can't be argued.
I think the 2006 w unc were drastically low mintage to begin with as I said earlier, they had just barely started to warm up the presses when they stopped making those.
To expect 2008 to be THAT LOW was asking a lot, and i think the numbers show that. For the 2008 to tie the 2006 they have to drop about 1000 coins each denomination. That isn't 50 coins, 100 coins, or even 500 coins, it is one thousand coins.
That is almost like asking the impossible.
The proof plat on the other hand would have to go UP by OVER 1000 to tie 2004. Is that likely? NO.
So if we are certain that the 2008 proof plats are the kings then we must also assume the 2006 w unc remain the kings for now.
PS All I can say is I am glad I purchased what I did, and wish I had bought more. >>
Looks like the Plat UNCs have no chance in heck to unseat the 06's. I could see a little downward action but nothing major. I'd speculate the Mint was pumping out UNC's when they shut down the presses. I bet they fully anticipated making another run of Proof Plats and it never happened due to PM prices. That would explain the so called breaking of tradition in the mintage figures which usually see Proof coins with much higher runs. Just imho.
Then, why cancel so many orders? Once they went backorder, that was IT. I dont understand this kind of logic. Seems the mintage could only be that large if indeed someone (or some company) came in and bought 900 sets that were on backorder at the time and actually had the order filled. Sounds implausible to me.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>Then, why cancel so many orders? Once they went backorder, that was IT. I dont understand this kind of logic. Seems the mintage could only be that large if indeed someone (or some company) came in and bought 900 sets that were on backorder at the time and actually had the order filled. Sounds implausible to me. >>
Stranger things have happened. Who bought all the remaining Plat proofs in one day? The members of this board? Don't think so....Time will tell.
Good point. I just dont believe that the numbers have been revised yet. Time will tell. Most likely after we have all kicked them to the curb. Here's to the new flavor of the week: Plat Proofs.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>Then, why cancel so many orders? Once they went backorder, that was IT. I dont understand this kind of logic. Seems the mintage could only be that large if indeed someone (or some company) came in and bought 900 sets that were on backorder at the time and actually had the order filled. Sounds implausible to me. >>
The mint may have had enough blanks left only to do a last run for the unc w plats and not the proofs. I think they probably needed the unc to go higher so they weren't ridiculously low mintage while the proof were still around 4000 to 5000 coins or so.
It was also reported they ran out of blanks so that is why all of this probably happened.
Anyway the mint has made 2008 a very special year for modern collectors, these coins will be amazing to own.
Even if the 2008 unc w stay where they are they are still low enough to see decent appreciation in later years. They are under Jackie Robinson unc after all, and that was very low by itself.
The prices on Ebay at mint issue are good purchases for long-term modern collectors. Platinum prices will probably be higher than issue price by itself within a couple of years. I don't see any downside to those holding these plat unc w coins in any year.
<< <i>I bought the uncs. in stead of the proofs. Waaaaaahhhhhhh >>
Ditto that. Just kills me. I have to stop looking at the orders for the proofs on my Mint account that I cancelled. I sent some back and sold a lot more for break even. I took as fact the talk of them having minted a full run. Of course, I have tons of Uncs :-( (On the other hand I also have lots of Buffs :-) What of the AGE Uncs and Proofs?????
I have one Plat. proof set ordered on 12/8 at 9:51 p.m. that is backordered w/expected ship date of 12/31 and a cancel box. Will I ever see them?
I also want to thank this board for last week. I was able to get some orders for the proofs, and even my last 1/2 oz. that was backordered is being shipped. I just checked with the Mint and they are all shipped already.
My buffaloes are all at home except for one 1/2 oz. that is on its way.
Good luck to everyone else. This group is the BEST!
<<We must be approaching the end of the 30 day return window for the uncirculated platinums. I wonder if there will be additional returns based on the fact the numbers haven't dropped? >>
You're correct...I have some of the last sets that departed via the helicopter on the embassy roof...and I have until 1/4/09 to ship them back within the 30-day return window.
In fact, based on my luck, I can guarantee that the Uncs will be LOWER than the proofs in the final analysis...all I have to do is ship back my Uncs and buy the proofs on the secondary market...and the Unc numbers will immediately plunge through the floor!
I, or people I know outside of this board have had large order cancellations on Mint State Plats (sets & 1 ounce) within the last few days. These cancellations could not have been reflected yet. Therefore, it's clear the the sales number are vastly overstated, just from these orders alone. Additionally, I know of (2) 99 pc orders of PROOFS, one for the 1/4, and one for the 1 ounce's that the Mint just canceled as well. Therefore, the PF #'s will also come down. I have and know others that still have MS & PF Plats "backordered". If these are not filled the sales figures will be reduced further. Of course, I'm sure that there is a world of orders outside of my small circle that have been canceled and that are backordered, of which many remain to be canceled.
<<where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
I will step in the defend 7over8 in his absence...not that he won't do an admirable job himself when he appears...
But as a holder of too many 2008 Proof and Unc Plats, no to mention quite a few Buffs and Eagles, please don't fail to keep in mind the following:
1. The Unc numbers, while at 4,000 +/- for all denoms are likely at the high water mark and will decline from here...it's only as question of how far and how fast (and if people start getting cold feet and start returning the last coins received, who knows how low we'll go).
2. The Proof numbers while increasing, probably still do not reflect the full "pulse" of buying that took place last week...so those numbers will increase (once again, just a matter of how far and how fast).
3. And although there are usually more proofs thans uncs produced for any single issue, don't be surprised that as the Unc numbers decline and the Proofs increase...that the final Proof and Unc numbers settle very close to each other.
And I'm sure the real 7over8 will have more on this later.
I also own a good number of these issues. I just would have expected him to be all over this by now.
<< <i><<where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
I will step in the defend 7over8 in his absence...not that he won't do an admirable job himself when he appears...
But as a holder of too many 2008 Proof and Unc Plats, no to mention quite a few Buffs and Eagles, please don't fail to keep in mind the following:
1. The Unc numbers, while at 4,000 +/- for all denoms are likely at the high water mark and will decline from here...it's only as question of how far and how fast (and if people start getting cold feet and start returning the last coins received, who knows how low we'll go).
2. The Proof numbers while increasing, probably still do not reflect the full "pulse" of buying that took place last week...so those numbers will increase (once again, just a matter of how far and how fast).
3. And although there are usually more proofs thans uncs produced for any single issue, don't be surprised that as the Unc numbers decline and the Proofs increase...that the final Proof and Unc numbers settle very close to each other.
And I'm sure the real 7over8 will have more on this later. >>
<< <i>where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
Reminds me of the situation with FLBuffaloHunter. When he finally realized his First Hags were........Hags. He seemed to disappear.
Although I don't think they are in the same league as Hags, I do think my money will sit tied up in them a long time. Only because the mint will take two years to sort the numbers out.
These numbers were originally posted last weekend:
<<Over at Numismaster, the latest Mint Stats through December 7th have been posted. The sales figures for all platinum coins are included below. The first column shows the individual totals per product type. The second column shows the cumulative totals per coin (individual sales plus 4 coin set sales).>>
<<2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Sales Figures>> <<1 oz 1,951 4,109>> <<1/2 oz 1,257 3,415>> <<1/4 oz 1,778 3,936>> <<1/10 oz 2,485 4,643>> <<4 Coin 2,158 >>
Therefore, when comparing these to today's numbers, do you all realize that we're looking at stats that are at least 10 days to 2 weeks old?!?
Except for the minor change in the 1 ounce numbers, everything has stayed exactly the same. But yet, backorders have been cancelled in large numbers in the past couple of weeks...but haven't showed up yet...or am I missing something here?
Not many 2008 coins (gold included) are trading at 4x their issue price in 70 grade (3x the US Mint's revised pricing at the end). Looks like the Proof Plats are gaining a little strength? I also see that a $25 Proof Plat coin PR70DC also sold at $859 this morning on ebay - nearly 2.5x Mint Issue price and a $500 gross profit on a $350 coin.
Wondercoin
P.S. How strong are these 08 Proof sales - I sell some $10 PR70DC of earlier year Plats for less money and MOST of the $25 PR70DC earlier year plats in the series trade for less than the 08-W is now fetching
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
Reminds me of the situation with FLBuffaloHunter. When he finally realized his First Hags were........Hags. He seemed to disappear.
Although I don't think they are in the same league as Hags, I do think my money will sit tied up in them a long time. Only because the mint will take two years to sort the numbers out. >>
You are probably correct that the mint will take two years to "fix" the unc plat accounting.
Also, with the shortage of pure gold 1/2 oz blanks I think the Hags might be the next opportunity for 08 coins.
I just would have expected him to be all over this by now.
I agree, though I don't know what else can be said at this point.
His expectations remain unfulfilled at this point.
I've asked Dave Harper to confirm the answer to what I continue to believe is the only relevant question:
Are orders reported as "sales" when taken, or only when filled?
I know 7over8 and others have suggested the answer has already been confirmed with the Mint, but I haven't done so personally.
IF, as many here believe, the sales figures include all orders taken and not cancelled, I agree that we should eventually see the numbers drop, perhaps significantly.
When that happens is anyone's guess; I'm sure it's not at the top of the Mint's list of things to do.
I won't pretend to have a special insight on the way that the Mint operates, but the number 2158 does present a problem for me in terms of its validity.
That's the number of 4-coin "W" Unc sets supposedly "ordered" or "sold" or "shipped", whatever. I don't know what that number means, but I do suspect the number (or at least a portion of it), simply because it doesn't reflect the trend up to that point, it isn't consistant with the ordering patterns for the single coin options during that same time period, and because it seems to be very close to a juxtaposition of the numbers from the total of the week prior.
However, even if 900 coins are deducted from all of the "W" Uncs, there would have to be some significant cancellations in order for the "W" Uncs to become the kickers in the series. Not that it couldn't happen................
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Groht, I can't wait to hear what you have to say. I agree with you. Something is really messed up with these numbers. The way I see it the proofs now have messed up numbers also. Last weeks flurry is not reflected in them. How can this be?
Neither the 2008 Buffalo or Platinum coins are sitting the world on fire in the aftermarket. Like fine wine you will have to let them age before drawing final conclusions. Until then it's pointless to argue their various merits.
I agree with you. Something is really messed up with these numbers. The way I see it the proofs now have messed up numbers also. Last weeks flurry is not reflected in them.
I just want to add that I agree with this perspective that this week's numbers seem suspect.
I wouldn't rely on them to have pinpoint accuracy, and everyone is well-advised to remember that they aren't final.
That said, it seems extremely likely to me that when the dust settles, the 2008 platinum proofs will have lower mintages than the 2004 proofs.
<< <i>Groht, I can't wait to hear what you have to say. I agree with you. Something is really messed up with these numbers. The way I see it the proofs now have messed up numbers also. Last weeks flurry is not reflected in them. How can this be? >>
You have no way to know that these are not correct.
Having only a few coins left could easily account for what happened.
Has anyone checked the difference between last weeks sales report of the Proof plats and subtracted the total from this weeks figures? Unless I am wrong some where, The 1,1/2, 1/4 ouncers and the 4pc set are all differenced by 320 pcs. Only the 1/10 ounce is different @ 562 peices. Is this something I am overlooking, This seems strange to my way of thinking. Chas.
Charles Crews ** CU Members that I have had Buy/sell deals with alohagary,dabigkahuna,goldman86,fivecents,endzone,clackamas,ericj96,Bochiman,Wingsrule,adriana,claychaser,holeinone1972,itsnotjustme,MJcoin,Kishul,jsego,TWQG,carlwolfort,jmski52,steelielee,grote15
<< <i>I won't pretend to have a special insight on the way that the Mint operates, but the number 2158 does present a problem for me in terms of its validity.
That's the number of 4-coin "W" Unc sets supposedly "ordered" or "sold" or "shipped", whatever. I don't know what that number means, but I do suspect the number (or at least a portion of it), simply because it doesn't reflect the trend up to that point, it isn't consistant with the ordering patterns for the single coin options during that same time period, and because it seems to be very close to a juxtaposition of the numbers from the total of the week prior.
However, even if 900 coins are deducted from all of the "W" Uncs, there would have to be some significant cancellations in order for the "W" Uncs to become the kickers in the series. Not that it couldn't happen................ >>
Also, the way I see it the 1oz coin was at about 1000 coins when it went backorder then the next week the sales numbers were at about
1500 and the coins were not available then again the next week they went up to about 1900 coins.
<< <i>Has anyone checked the difference between last weeks sales report of the Proof plats and subtracted the total from this weeks figures? Unless I am wrong some where, The 1,1/2, 1/4 ouncers and the 4pc set are all differenced by 320 pcs. Only the 1/10 ounce is different @ 562 peices. Is this something I am overlooking, This seems strange to my way of thinking. Chas. >>
<< <i>Groht, I can't wait to hear what you have to say. I agree with you. Something is really messed up with these numbers. The way I see it the proofs now have messed up numbers also. Last weeks flurry is not reflected in them. How can this be? >>
When you compare last weeks numbers to this weeks numbers things just do not add up...I think the mint is playing with the numbers. There is no way the plat proofs would remain so low after that buying frenzy... AND especially.... after the sets remained on back order for a couple days...NO POSSIBLE WAY! Compare the numbers to the last few weeks and common sense says something is admidst...
Here could be a delemma for the mint...if they report the actual sales numbers of the proof plats after the buying frenzy, then they may end up with a TON of returns that they will not be able to sale anytime soon.
Also compare the buffalo numbers to the last couple of weeks...they make no sense at all either...
All the numbers smell like something rotten!!! Call it manipulation or what have you BUT whatever it is...those numbers have got to be WRONG.
I am keeping enough for my collection and will send my excess back before the 30 days are up UNLESS I see some serious number changing in either direction...not flat lined!
Is it just me or does BlacknBlack sound a bit like 7over8?
Comments
<< <i>I think we will see changes in the Proof plats with little change in all other areas. >>
Wow! your crystal ball seems to be working nicely!
Thanks Eric! Made my day!
The Buffalo is a King, not so much because of low mintages, but because we expect him to have a lot of followers.
The 2008 platinum proof is a King because of the low mintage figures; how many followers he'll have remains to be seen.
The 2008 platinum w-unc remains a wild card... but the low mintage crown will not be passed this week.
lol, I guess it's time to break out some old stats formulae or some calculus curves to do a little smoothing of the data?
I knew it would happen.
B: I'm still waiting...
A: See you next week.
B: Agreed.
<< <i>A: 2008 w uncirculated platinums will destroy the 2006 ws!!! just you wait.
B: I'm still waiting...
A: See you next week.
B: Agreed. >>
I think "destroy" is somewhat optimistic but It should be a close call.
I think the 2006 w unc were drastically low mintage to begin with as I said earlier, they had just barely started to warm up the presses when they stopped making those.
To expect 2008 to be THAT LOW was asking a lot, and i think the numbers show that. For the 2008 to tie the 2006 they have to drop about 1000 coins each denomination. That isn't 50 coins, 100 coins, or even 500 coins, it is one thousand coins.
That is almost like asking the impossible.
The proof plat on the other hand would have to go UP by OVER 1000 to tie 2004. Is that likely? NO.
So if we are certain that the 2008 proof plats are the kings then we must also assume the 2006 w unc remain the kings for now.
PS All I can say is I am glad I purchased what I did, and wish I had bought more.
With your help and the advice of other thread members (7/8, nycounsel, jimski, etc.) I have accumulated a small herd of buffaloes and flocks of different eagles (AG, AU, & PT). If I accumulate any more, my credit cards will blow up!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>What's there to argue about, the numbers for the unc plat w are now almost 8 weeks old for the 1/10 and 1/4. That can't be argued.
I think the 2006 w unc were drastically low mintage to begin with as I said earlier, they had just barely started to warm up the presses when they stopped making those.
To expect 2008 to be THAT LOW was asking a lot, and i think the numbers show that. For the 2008 to tie the 2006 they have to drop about 1000 coins each denomination. That isn't 50 coins, 100 coins, or even 500 coins, it is one thousand coins.
That is almost like asking the impossible.
The proof plat on the other hand would have to go UP by OVER 1000 to tie 2004. Is that likely? NO.
So if we are certain that the 2008 proof plats are the kings then we must also assume the 2006 w unc remain the kings for now.
PS All I can say is I am glad I purchased what I did, and wish I had bought more.
Looks like the Plat UNCs have no chance in heck to unseat the 06's. I could see a little downward action but nothing major. I'd speculate the Mint was pumping out UNC's when they shut down the presses. I bet they fully anticipated making another run of Proof Plats and it never happened due to PM prices. That would explain the so called breaking of tradition in the mintage figures which usually see Proof coins with much higher runs. Just imho.
edited for sp.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i>Then, why cancel so many orders? Once they went backorder, that was IT. I dont understand this kind of logic. Seems the mintage could only be that large if indeed someone (or some company) came in and bought 900 sets that were on backorder at the time and actually had the order filled. Sounds implausible to me. >>
Stranger things have happened. Who bought all the remaining Plat proofs in one day? The members of this board? Don't think so....Time will tell.
Here's to the new flavor of the week: Plat Proofs.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Thought it seems odd that someone can process an order for almost $900,000.
<< <i>Then, why cancel so many orders? Once they went backorder, that was IT. I dont understand this kind of logic. Seems the mintage could only be that large if indeed someone (or some company) came in and bought 900 sets that were on backorder at the time and actually had the order filled. Sounds implausible to me. >>
Ninjas
It was also reported they ran out of blanks so that is why all of this probably happened.
Anyway the mint has made 2008 a very special year for modern collectors, these coins will be amazing to own.
Even if the 2008 unc w stay where they are they are still low enough to see decent appreciation in later years. They are under Jackie Robinson unc after all, and that was very low by itself.
The prices on Ebay at mint issue are good purchases for long-term modern collectors. Platinum prices will probably be higher than issue price by itself within a couple of years. I don't see any downside to those holding these plat unc w coins in any year.
<< <i>Ninjas >>
<< <i>I bought the uncs. in stead of the proofs. Waaaaaahhhhhhh >>
Ditto that. Just kills me. I have to stop looking at the orders for the proofs on my Mint account that I cancelled. I sent some back and sold a lot more for break even. I took as fact the talk of them having minted a full run. Of course, I have tons of Uncs :-( (On the other hand I also have lots of Buffs :-) What of the AGE Uncs and Proofs?????
I have one Plat. proof set ordered on 12/8 at 9:51 p.m. that is backordered w/expected ship date of 12/31 and a cancel box. Will I ever see them?
I also want to thank this board for last week. I was able to get some orders for the proofs, and even my last 1/2 oz. that was backordered is being shipped. I just checked with the Mint and they are all shipped already.
My buffaloes are all at home except for one 1/2 oz. that is on its way.
Good luck to everyone else. This group is the BEST!
I wonder if there will be additional returns based on the fact the numbers haven't dropped?
<<We must be approaching the end of the 30 day return window for the uncirculated platinums. I wonder if there will be additional returns based on the fact the numbers haven't dropped? >>
You're correct...I have some of the last sets that departed via the helicopter on the embassy roof...and I have until 1/4/09 to ship them back within the 30-day return window.
In fact, based on my luck, I can guarantee that the Uncs will be LOWER than the proofs in the final analysis...all I have to do is ship back my Uncs and buy the proofs on the secondary market...and the Unc numbers will immediately plunge through the floor!
If so, what about the "W" uncircs? Do they have a cutoff date for sales, or do they continue until sold out?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I have one Plat. proof set ordered on 12/8 at 9:51 p.m. that is backordered w/expected ship date of 12/31 and a cancel box. Will I ever see them? >>
Same here, just like two years ago at this time. I and the Mint finally gave up the continuous day slide.
Ren
1oz = 3,954
1/2 = 3,415
1/4 = 3,936
1/10 = 4,643
At least three of the coins are under 4,000. That's better than last year. Looking for the silver lining.
Ren(W)
<<where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
I will step in the defend 7over8 in his absence...not that he won't do an admirable job himself when he appears...
But as a holder of too many 2008 Proof and Unc Plats, no to mention quite a few Buffs and Eagles, please don't fail to keep in mind the following:
1. The Unc numbers, while at 4,000 +/- for all denoms are likely at the high water mark and will decline from here...it's only as question of how far and how fast (and if people start getting cold feet and start returning the last coins received, who knows how low we'll go).
2. The Proof numbers while increasing, probably still do not reflect the full "pulse" of buying that took place last week...so those numbers will increase (once again, just a matter of how far and how fast).
3. And although there are usually more proofs thans uncs produced for any single issue, don't be surprised that as the Unc numbers decline and the Proofs increase...that the final Proof and Unc numbers settle very close to each other.
And I'm sure the real 7over8 will have more on this later.
<< <i><<where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
I will step in the defend 7over8 in his absence...not that he won't do an admirable job himself when he appears...
But as a holder of too many 2008 Proof and Unc Plats, no to mention quite a few Buffs and Eagles, please don't fail to keep in mind the following:
1. The Unc numbers, while at 4,000 +/- for all denoms are likely at the high water mark and will decline from here...it's only as question of how far and how fast (and if people start getting cold feet and start returning the last coins received, who knows how low we'll go).
2. The Proof numbers while increasing, probably still do not reflect the full "pulse" of buying that took place last week...so those numbers will increase (once again, just a matter of how far and how fast).
3. And although there are usually more proofs thans uncs produced for any single issue, don't be surprised that as the Unc numbers decline and the Proofs increase...that the final Proof and Unc numbers settle very close to each other.
And I'm sure the real 7over8 will have more on this later. >>
<< <i>where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
Reminds me of the situation with FLBuffaloHunter. When he finally realized his First Hags were........Hags. He seemed to disappear.
Although I don't think they are in the same league as Hags, I do think my money will sit tied up in them a long time. Only because the mint will take two years to sort the numbers out.
These numbers were originally posted last weekend:
<<Over at Numismaster, the latest Mint Stats through December 7th have been posted. The sales figures for all platinum coins are included below. The first column shows the individual totals per product type. The second column shows the cumulative totals per coin (individual sales plus 4 coin set sales).>>
<<2008-W Uncirculated Platinum Eagle Sales Figures>>
<<1 oz 1,951 4,109>>
<<1/2 oz 1,257 3,415>>
<<1/4 oz 1,778 3,936>>
<<1/10 oz 2,485 4,643>>
<<4 Coin 2,158 >>
Therefore, when comparing these to today's numbers, do you all realize that we're looking at stats that are at least 10 days to 2 weeks old?!?
Except for the minor change in the 1 ounce numbers, everything has stayed exactly the same. But yet, backorders have been cancelled in large numbers in the past couple of weeks...but haven't showed up yet...or am I missing something here?
Not many 2008 coins (gold included) are trading at 4x their issue price in 70 grade (3x the US Mint's revised pricing at the end). Looks like the Proof Plats are gaining a little strength? I also see that a $25 Proof Plat coin PR70DC also sold at $859 this morning on ebay - nearly 2.5x Mint Issue price and a $500 gross profit on a $350 coin.
Wondercoin
P.S. How strong are these 08 Proof sales - I sell some $10 PR70DC of earlier year Plats for less money and MOST of the $25 PR70DC earlier year plats in the series trade for less than the 08-W is now fetching
<< <i>
<< <i>where is 7 over 8 today with his usual pro unc spin. >>
Reminds me of the situation with FLBuffaloHunter. When he finally realized his First Hags were........Hags. He seemed to disappear.
Although I don't think they are in the same league as Hags, I do think my money will sit tied up in them a long time. Only because the mint will take two years to sort the numbers out. >>
You are probably correct that the mint will take two years to "fix" the unc plat accounting.
Also, with the shortage of pure gold 1/2 oz blanks I think the Hags might be the next opportunity for 08 coins.
I agree, though I don't know what else can be said at this point.
His expectations remain unfulfilled at this point.
I've asked Dave Harper to confirm the answer to what I continue to believe is the only relevant question:
Are orders reported as "sales" when taken, or only when filled?
I know 7over8 and others have suggested the answer has already been confirmed with the Mint, but I haven't done so personally.
IF, as many here believe, the sales figures include all orders taken and not cancelled, I agree that we should eventually see the numbers drop, perhaps significantly.
When that happens is anyone's guess; I'm sure it's not at the top of the Mint's list of things to do.
That's the number of 4-coin "W" Unc sets supposedly "ordered" or "sold" or "shipped", whatever. I don't know what that number means, but I do suspect the number (or at least a portion of it), simply because it doesn't reflect the trend up to that point, it isn't consistant with the ordering patterns for the single coin options during that same time period, and because it seems to be very close to a juxtaposition of the numbers from the total of the week prior.
However, even if 900 coins are deducted from all of the "W" Uncs, there would have to be some significant cancellations in order for the "W" Uncs to become the kickers in the series. Not that it couldn't happen................
I knew it would happen.
All bets are in, and we should just sit back and enjoy watching the race.
San Diego, CA
I just want to add that I agree with this perspective that this week's numbers seem suspect.
I wouldn't rely on them to have pinpoint accuracy, and everyone is well-advised to remember that they aren't final.
That said, it seems extremely likely to me that when the dust settles, the 2008 platinum proofs will have lower mintages than the 2004 proofs.
<< <i>Groht, I can't wait to hear what you have to say. I agree with you. Something is really messed up with these numbers. The way I see it the proofs now have messed up numbers also. Last weeks flurry is not reflected in them. How can this be? >>
You have no way to know that these are not correct.
Having only a few coins left could easily account for what happened.
<< <i>I won't pretend to have a special insight on the way that the Mint operates, but the number 2158 does present a problem for me in terms of its validity.
That's the number of 4-coin "W" Unc sets supposedly "ordered" or "sold" or "shipped", whatever. I don't know what that number means, but I do suspect the number (or at least a portion of it), simply because it doesn't reflect the trend up to that point, it isn't consistant with the ordering patterns for the single coin options during that same time period, and because it seems to be very close to a juxtaposition of the numbers from the total of the week prior.
However, even if 900 coins are deducted from all of the "W" Uncs, there would have to be some significant cancellations in order for the "W" Uncs to become the kickers in the series. Not that it couldn't happen................ >>
Also, the way I see it the 1oz coin was at about 1000 coins when it went backorder then the next week the sales numbers were at about
1500 and the coins were not available then again the next week they went up to about 1900 coins.
<< <i>Has anyone checked the difference between last weeks sales report of the Proof plats and subtracted the total from this weeks figures? Unless I am wrong some where, The 1,1/2, 1/4 ouncers and the 4pc set are all differenced by 320 pcs. Only the 1/10 ounce is different @ 562 peices. Is this something I am overlooking, This seems strange to my way of thinking. Chas. >>
Looks OK to me.
<< <i>Groht, I can't wait to hear what you have to say. I agree with you. Something is really messed up with these numbers. The way I see it the proofs now have messed up numbers also. Last weeks flurry is not reflected in them. How can this be? >>
When you compare last weeks numbers to this weeks numbers things just do not add up...I think the mint is playing with the numbers. There is no way the plat proofs would remain so low after that buying frenzy... AND especially.... after the sets remained on back order for a couple days...NO POSSIBLE WAY! Compare the numbers to the last few weeks and common sense says something is admidst...
Here could be a delemma for the mint...if they report the actual sales numbers of the proof plats after the buying frenzy, then they may end up with a TON of returns that they will not be able to sale anytime soon.
Also compare the buffalo numbers to the last couple of weeks...they make no sense at all either...
All the numbers smell like something rotten!!! Call it manipulation or what have you BUT whatever it is...those numbers have got to be WRONG.
I am keeping enough for my collection and will send my excess back before the 30 days are up UNLESS I see some serious number changing in either direction...not flat lined!
Is it just me or does BlacknBlack sound a bit like 7over8?