<< <i>So what do we think is the biggest bang for one's buck? The fractional unc plats, the fractional unc buffaloes, the fractional proof plats, the fractional proof buffaloes or the spoons? >>
The spoons, fer sher!
I just bought a couple of fractional unc buffs, because these are now commemoratives, and with a knock-out design. If you got the bucks, I'd go for the proof and unc plats, too. >>
Now that the mint is going to create a demand that was not there before for the coins that they will no longer make, will that make them a short term flip opportunity, or a long term buy and hold for our kids to sell someday?
I think we need to see the latest sales figures to decide how good these coins will be. I am surprised though nothing is showing backorder yet, that may be a bad sign.
Also orders this afternoon like this
2008 AE PLAT UNC MM 1/2 OZ 1 $619.95 $619.95 Item is no longer available. 2008 AE GLD UNC MM 1/10 OZ 1 $124.95 $124.95 In stock and reserved
are wrong and have not been corrected. The in stock item has no cancel box and the no longer available still is.
Now that the mint is going to create a demand that was not there before for the coins that they will no longer make, will that make them a short term flip opportunity, or a long term buy and hold for our kids to sell someday?
For the platinums, I wouldn't bet on a short term flip. They're more of a long term play -- the collector base isn't very big right now, and anyone who's interested has had the chance to drink their fill directly from the source. Secondary market hasn't taken off, and I'm not sure that it will even with this announcement. Eventually though, I think this really ups the chances for the uncirculated w platinums to be a very nice holding.
On the buffalo fractionals, I think those might end up having a better short term market. It really depends on how many they made-- unlike the platinums, the buffalo golds didn't come with a mintage cap, and considering the Mint originally was going to have these year after year, they might have struck a number of 24kt blanks on these. Just my gut feeling, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had at least a few thousand 4 coin sets available, and a few thousand more fractionals; perhaps sufficient supply to satisfy the demand for a few days of brisk sales. There are certainly people better qualified than I to make that estimate.
I think we need to see the latest sales figures to decide how good these coins will be. I am surprised though nothing is showing backorder yet, that may be a bad sign.
I wouldn't get too worried about the platinums. Logically speaking, the max they would have run would have been based on 2007 w unc. sales. The $10 w unc sellout came quite a bit lower than 2007.
2007 numbers were very close to 4,000 across the board for the $100, $50 and $25, and 6,000 for the $10.
So we could be looking at maybe 2500 sets total, and 1500 each of the $100, $50 and $25? If the set number was 2500, it would make the total $10 mintage 5,000.
Anyway, I think that would be the worst case scenario... my expectation has always been that the set would come in no higher than 2,000. As a 3 year series, the unc-w platinums look really compelling: only about 2,500 to 3,500 sets possible.
Anyone that placed early orders might want to make sure they are valid if you see anything like this on your order page
2008 AE GLD PRF 1/10 OZ 1 $149.95 $149.95 Item is no longer available. 2008 BUFF GLD PRF 1/10 OZ 2 $159.95 $319.90 Item is no longer available.
The mint told me this is a dead order and will never ship, something happened with the system this morning. Even though the items were available it doesn't matter now.
The other thing I think naysayers are missing here is that we DON'T need 4,000 active collectors of uncirculated-w platinums to gobble up this small mintage series.
As a discrete 3 year set, if only a few hundred people take interest a year, collect a 3 year series of one or more denominations, and set it aside, those coins will be taken out of the active market.
Once the coins are dispersed among 2,500 to 3,500 collectors, things will get interesting.
I think for the 2006 W UNC there are people holding hoards of coins that aren't selling for a long time so it may take much less than 1500 to have interest in these and see prices rise. The only coin left is the one ounce proof plat so that series will not appreciate except for the low mintage coins, I expect the 2009 one ounce proof to sell high mintage so the 2004 proof should hold as the key unless the 2008 comes in under.
This is why the next sales numbers and especially in two weeks will say a lot as to the potential of these coins IMO.
Also next year will be pretty boring for new mint products it sounds, so 2008 will be the last key year for some times as fewer products offered earlier means higher sales and mintages. They may replace the buffalo with new gold coin designs though but besides that not much else, the high relief will sell a bazillion coins and be worth melt like the 2006 buffalo 1 ounce proof is my guess.
My opinion is that order taking on the 08-w unc's is all screwed up. I do believe that they will be very low in mintage, possible to tie or dethrown the 06-w's
The numbers will be corrected. The not available signs will go up. Just my opinion. 1500 sets max, 1000 coins max on the 1/4 and 1/2 in single issue format.
Why is the 2004 Plat considered the king? I have seen more than one report that indicate that the 05 Proof coins have a smaller mintage. Can someone shed some light for me? Thanks!
I've heard a few people mention 2005 as perhaps being lower than 2004, but I'm pretty sure they are just wrong.
The agreement on 2004 being the key is pretty much universal among the biggest platinum people, and the secondary market prices vouch for that.
The real question now is if 2008 proofs will replace 2004. Based on sales figures so far, I think it is highly likely. That said, 2004s were not purchased in bulk, and they might maintain some of their price; the supply just isn't there in large numbers.
I would not expect a huge rush of orders on these coins.....
I don't see why an announcement that they are stopping to make fractional pieces would cause people to purchase more coins.....
I was thinking about getting a 1/4 oz proof platinum coin from the mint (if the 1/10 where going away, probably would have collected this size), but I don't think I am going to, as it would be a odd coin in my collection.....
With all this stuff being cut the mint will get alot less of my money next year I know that, which should make going to coin shows more fun.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
My opinion is that order taking on the 08-w unc's is all screwed up. I do believe that they will be very low in mintage, possible to tie or dethrown the 06-w's
The numbers will be corrected. The not available signs will go up. Just my opinion. 1500 sets max, 1000 coins max on the 1/4 and 1/2 in single issue format. >>
My opinion is that order taking on the 08-w unc's is all screwed up. I do believe that they will be very low in mintage, possible to tie or dethrown the 06-w's
The numbers will be corrected. The not available signs will go up. Just my opinion. 1500 sets max, 1000 coins max on the 1/4 and 1/2 in single issue format. >>
>>
I'm in the boat with you guys.
But I think a set of the Proofs if at all possible would also be wise.
But I think a set of the Proofs if at all possible would also be wise.
I think the unc-ws are the easiest set to complete, but also like the proofs -- the nice thing about what the Mint has done is that we can stop worrying about how we can afford the next year, and instead start working on prior years. Now is definitely a good time to start working on a collection for those interested in doing so; platinum is down significantly, and the interest in buying earlier years is weak right now. You could probably assemble almost a full set of $25s for not much more than melt, that might not be true in a year or two.
I'm also glad that I can stop collecting platinum now that there won't be anymore 1/2 oz $50 coins.
I think the proofs can be a decent long term buy. I bought 2 of the $50 proofs when they went back on sale as well and a w unc. Hopefully it will be a better purchase than my 10th anniv set last year. It does come in the nicest mine box I've ever seen, but not $1000 nice.
<< <i>I'm also glad that I can stop collecting platinum now that there won't be anymore 1/2 oz $50 coins.
I think the proofs can be a decent long term buy. I bought 2 of the $50 proofs when they went back on sale as well and a w unc. Hopefully it will be a better purchase than my 10th anniv set last year. It does come in the nicest mine box I've ever seen, but not $1000 nice. >>
In 5 years which will represent a better $500-$2,000 investment today.........
Consider base metal content, design, mintage, history, etc.
2007/2008 ASE
1996-W $5 Smithsonian 1997-W $5 Jackie Robinson 1997-W $5 F.D.R. 1999-W $5 Washington 2001-W $5 Capitol Visitor 2002-W $5 Salt Lake City Olympics 2000-W $10 Library Various First Spouse coins
Or...........2008 Fractional Buffalos and Platinums??
As far as the Buffalos consider the price history of 500,000 Silver dollars...................
Anyone selling almost a full set near melt today needs to be in a rubber room if that is happening.
I admit I haven't verified it. But I suspect that most of the 1997 to 2003 coins can be found for small premiums to melt. To the extent they aren't, it's less a factor of this Mint announcement than a reluctance to adjust prices down so sharply from a few months ago, when platinum was $2,000 an ounce.
Why is the 2004 Plat considered the king? I have seen more than one report that indicate that the 05 Proof coins have a smaller mintage. Can someone shed some light for me? Thanks!
Coolest,
There are more reports out there showing 2005s being lower in mintage than the 2004s than most of us care to see. Most of those reports come from a time where the mint published numbers for 2005 that were dated prior to the close of sales for the 2005 coins in 2006. Those numbers were revised by the mint and final numbers were published later. The new numbers published are closer to the final sales numbers reported by the office of public affairs at the mint during the last days of sales in 2006.
These are the final numbers published by the mint for 2004s (as of Nov 2008):
And, these are the final numbers published by the mint for 2005s (as of Nov 2008):
The unc-w plats are the way to go.... My best guess - 2500 or less for both quarters and halfs including sets....(unc-w's), maybe as low as 2250. Blowing 2006-w out of the water.
I'm not sure if it matters if the 2008 come in under the 2006 in the long run although it would be nice for those that purchased the 2008. They should be under 2007 so will at least be the second lowest of a three coin set of micro mintage moderns. The ending of the series just made these worth more than issue price in my opinion, the 1/10 pricing was ridiculously low.
I looked online to find anything for sale and couldn't find much, either all sold out or high priced MS70 PR70 type stuff. It looks like supply has dried up beyond Ebay so once these sell out then the real ballgame begins IMO.
Anyone wanting to collect has to go into the aftermarket. Only the proof plat one ounce is left and few will be selling their plat collections.
previously my opinion would be that a sub 06w mintage on the unc-w's by only a few hundred pieces or less wouldnt stir crazy interest or drive prices wild, but it would be a solid performer price wise.
with the release of info from the USM as far as the unc-w plat series being "closed" for all denoms with only a three year run changed my opinion.
if this 08-w unc issue is the lowest mintage even by a few coins, pricing should be more dramatic to the upside than my previous thoughts in the first scenario.
<< <i>if this 08-w unc issue is the lowest mintage even by a few coins, pricing should be more dramatic to the upside than my previous thoughts in the first scenario. >>
I agree....BUT....
As a closed series, at amazingly low mintages, I can't help but believe that these will be the "Pan-Pacs" of our century. Regardless of 2008 vs. 2006.
Heck, these are even less minted then the 1999-W unc golds.
How many First Strikes have been reported for the 2008 unc-w plats? A while back, if I recall correctly, the number was considerably lower than for 2007 and 2006.
If First Strikes for 2008 are scarce, that could affect pricing going forward since there are some people that prefer them for registry sets or other reasons. I personally like MS69 First Strikes because the premium isn't huge, the coins still look nice and IMO the holders are more attractive than the plain-vanilla MS69 holders.
I'm not sure if it matters if the 2008 come in under the 2006 in the long run although it would be nice for those that purchased the 2008. -Halfstrike
As a closed series, at amazingly low mintages, I can't help but believe that these will be the "Pan-Pacs" of our century. Regardless of 2008 vs. 2006. -FloridaBill
I agree with both of you. The argument about 2008 v 2006 is getting to be pretty silly. None of us know what 2008 mintages will be, and are only reading tea leaves. Time will tell.
And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. ALL of the platinum w-uncs are going to benefit from the end of the program: we're looking at a 3 year series with mintages predominantly under 5,000. On the $25s and $50s, we already know there can't be more than 2600 sets for the 3 years. For the $100s, the number is about 3,000. If 2008 numbers come in lower, even better.
Heck, the 2007s might be the best of the lot -- I don't know anyone who hoarded those, and if a big buyer entered the market, I'm guessing it would be a lot harder to find a big supply of 2007s than 2006 or 2008.
On another note, I'd love to see NGC and PCGS offer a 3 coin holder to show each of the 2006-2008 coins together; The Foundations of Democracy set.
............"Heck, the 2007s might be the best of the lot -- I don't know anyone who hoarded those, and if a big buyer entered the market, I'm guessing it would be a lot harder to find a big supply of 2007s than 2006 or 2008."...............
I melted all the 1 and 1/2 oz 07s I had in March-May of this year.
Broke them out of 4 coin sets figuring I cleared the 1/4 and 1/10.
I agree that while published numbers look higher than 06 actual surviving coins are anyones guess..........
There's a big difference in selling a coin for melt and actually melting the coin. I hear so many saying I melted mine when they sold it to a company like Kitco that resales most of the coins on their site.
There's a big difference in selling a coin for melt and actually melting the coin. I hear so many saying I melted mine when they sold it to a company like Kitco that resales most of the coins on their site.
That's true. But when a coin is sold to Kitco for melt value, it generally stops being handled in a way that would preserve the surfaces, and if it were returned to the collector market, it likely wouldn't grade 69. Maybe down the road there would be a numismatic market for a MS65 platinum uncirculated coin, but for now that market doesn't exist.
<< <i>There's a big difference in selling a coin for melt and actually melting the coin. I hear so many saying I melted mine when they sold it to a company like Kitco that resales most of the coins on their site.
That's true. But when a coin is sold to Kitco for melt value, it generally stops being handled in a way that would preserve the surfaces, and if it were returned to the collector market, it likely wouldn't grade 69. Maybe down the road there would be a numismatic market for a MS65 platinum uncirculated coin, but for now that market doesn't exist. >>
That's a assumption on your part, not mine. In most cases the COA and box are sold too and if it's already in a tpg holder then really there's more than a fair chance that the coin remains fine. They just don't crack out a coin because they purchased it for melt. JMO
As previously discussed I sold all my platinum without OGP and scuffed just enough to kill any chance of MS/PR69. I believe Eric did the same just more aggressively..............
I sold an 06' proof plat set to my dealer at $2,175.00 an ounce. When I sold them to him I asked if they would be resold or melted. He told me it depended on how fast they wanted to dump them. If his scrap metal buyer was in a hurry it would go in the pot unless they had a collector ready to buy and at $2,200.00 an ounce buyers were hard to find.
The set I sold was raw in OGP but I did cherry pick several coins to get that set as close to 70 as I could. There are ethical issues with the scuffers approach I do not agree with, but hey - they are your coins - do with them what you wish.
Uh. okay. you seem a little argumentative. I'm not assuming anything. I've never suggested that all coins sold for melt have been melted, or even that all coins sold for melt have been damaged. You're right, they could be in pristine condition with original boxes and COA or in slabs, or whatever.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to quantify how many may have been destroyed or damaged. I expect it's unlikely to be a significant percentage. But contributors to this forum HAVE reported scuffing them before selling them to a bullion dealer, and it stands to reason that some number of the ones we haven't heard about have also effectively been removed from the collectible population. With the uncirculated w platinums, it wouldn't even matter if all of them survive in pristine condition, they are very low mintage coins.
There are ethical issues with the scuffers approach I do not agree with,
I like the term "the scuffers". As a collector, I agree - the idea of intentionally harming a coin makes me uncomfortable.
But I suppose if you knew you were selling it to someone who was only buying it for the bullion, for whom condition was irrelevant, I do understand the motivation. It's basically assuring that a coin sold at melt, for non-numismatic use, is removed from the population. I'm certain that the scuffers only did so in those limited circumstances, not in situations where a potential collector had gotten a good deal on ebay or something.
<< <i>There are ethical issues with the scuffers approach I do not agree with,
I like the term "the scuffers". As a collector, I agree - the idea of intentionally harming a coin makes me uncomfortable.
>>
The scuffers at least leave the coin for another day, the melters turn it into putty.
PS If someone sells a set for bullion then I have no problem modifying the set to bullion so the person that receives it gets what he paid for, bullion and nothing more.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>So what do we think is the biggest bang for one's buck? The fractional unc plats, the fractional unc buffaloes, the fractional proof plats, the fractional proof buffaloes or the spoons? >>
The spoons, fer sher!
I just bought a couple of fractional unc buffs, because these are now commemoratives, and with a knock-out design. If you got the bucks, I'd go for the proof and unc plats, too. >>
HEHEHE. Exactly! I'm in!
Also orders this afternoon like this
2008 AE PLAT UNC MM 1/2 OZ 1 $619.95 $619.95 Item is no longer available.
2008 AE GLD UNC MM 1/10 OZ 1 $124.95 $124.95 In stock and reserved
are wrong and have not been corrected. The in stock item has no cancel box and the no longer available still is.
It's all messed up.
For the platinums, I wouldn't bet on a short term flip. They're more of a long term play -- the collector base isn't very big right now, and anyone who's interested has had the chance to drink their fill directly from the source. Secondary market hasn't taken off, and I'm not sure that it will even with this announcement. Eventually though, I think this really ups the chances for the uncirculated w platinums to be a very nice holding.
On the buffalo fractionals, I think those might end up having a better short term market. It really depends on how many they made-- unlike the platinums, the buffalo golds didn't come with a mintage cap, and considering the Mint originally was going to have these year after year, they might have struck a number of 24kt blanks on these. Just my gut feeling, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had at least a few thousand 4 coin sets available, and a few thousand more fractionals; perhaps sufficient supply to satisfy the demand for a few days of brisk sales. There are certainly people better qualified than I to make that estimate.
I wouldn't get too worried about the platinums. Logically speaking, the max they would have run would have been based on 2007 w unc. sales. The $10 w unc sellout came quite a bit lower than 2007.
2007 numbers were very close to 4,000 across the board for the $100, $50 and $25, and 6,000 for the $10.
So we could be looking at maybe 2500 sets total, and 1500 each of the $100, $50 and $25? If the set number was 2500, it would make the total $10 mintage 5,000.
Anyway, I think that would be the worst case scenario... my expectation has always been that the set would come in no higher than 2,000. As a 3 year series, the unc-w platinums look really compelling: only about 2,500 to 3,500 sets possible.
2008 AE GLD PRF 1/10 OZ 1 $149.95 $149.95 Item is no longer available.
2008 BUFF GLD PRF 1/10 OZ 2 $159.95 $319.90 Item is no longer available.
The mint told me this is a dead order and will never ship, something happened with the system this morning. Even though the items were available it doesn't matter now.
As a discrete 3 year set, if only a few hundred people take interest a year, collect a 3 year series of one or more denominations, and set it aside, those coins will be taken out of the active market.
Once the coins are dispersed among 2,500 to 3,500 collectors, things will get interesting.
This is why the next sales numbers and especially in two weeks will say a lot as to the potential of these coins IMO.
Also next year will be pretty boring for new mint products it sounds, so 2008 will be the last key year for some times as fewer products offered earlier means higher sales and mintages. They may replace the buffalo with new gold coin designs though but besides that not much else, the high relief will sell a bazillion coins and be worth melt like the 2006 buffalo 1 ounce proof is my guess.
My opinion is that order taking on the 08-w unc's is all screwed up. I do believe that they will be very low in mintage, possible to tie or dethrown the 06-w's
The numbers will be corrected. The not available signs will go up. Just my opinion. 1500 sets max, 1000 coins max on the 1/4 and 1/2 in single issue format.
Can someone shed some light for me?
Thanks!
year......$100...$50....$25....$10
2004... 6,007 5,063 5,193 7,161
2005... 6,700 5,700 6,400 8,000
I've heard a few people mention 2005 as perhaps being lower than 2004, but I'm pretty sure they are just wrong.
The agreement on 2004 being the key is pretty much universal among the biggest platinum people, and the secondary market prices vouch for that.
The real question now is if 2008 proofs will replace 2004. Based on sales figures so far, I think it is highly likely. That said, 2004s were not purchased in bulk, and they might maintain some of their price; the supply just isn't there in large numbers.
I don't see why an announcement that they are stopping to make fractional pieces would cause people to purchase more coins.....
I was thinking about getting a 1/4 oz proof platinum coin from the mint (if the 1/10 where going away, probably would have collected this size), but I don't think I am going to, as it would be a odd coin in my collection.....
With all this stuff being cut the mint will get alot less of my money next year I know that, which should make going to coin shows more fun.....
<< <i>Halfstrike
My opinion is that order taking on the 08-w unc's is all screwed up. I do believe that they will be very low in mintage, possible to tie or dethrown the 06-w's
The numbers will be corrected. The not available signs will go up. Just my opinion. 1500 sets max, 1000 coins max on the 1/4 and 1/2 in single issue format. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Halfstrike
My opinion is that order taking on the 08-w unc's is all screwed up. I do believe that they will be very low in mintage, possible to tie or dethrown the 06-w's
The numbers will be corrected. The not available signs will go up. Just my opinion. 1500 sets max, 1000 coins max on the 1/4 and 1/2 in single issue format. >>
I'm in the boat with you guys.
But I think a set of the Proofs if at all possible would also be wise.
I think the unc-ws are the easiest set to complete, but also like the proofs -- the nice thing about what the Mint has done is that we can stop worrying about how we can afford the next year, and instead start working on prior years. Now is definitely a good time to start working on a collection for those interested in doing so; platinum is down significantly, and the interest in buying earlier years is weak right now. You could probably assemble almost a full set of $25s for not much more than melt, that might not be true in a year or two.
I think the proofs can be a decent long term buy. I bought 2 of the $50 proofs when they went back on sale as well and a w unc. Hopefully it will be a better purchase than my 10th anniv set last year. It does come in the nicest mine box I've ever seen, but not $1000 nice.
<< <i>I'm also glad that I can stop collecting platinum now that there won't be anymore 1/2 oz $50 coins.
I think the proofs can be a decent long term buy. I bought 2 of the $50 proofs when they went back on sale as well and a w unc. Hopefully it will be a better purchase than my 10th anniv set last year. It does come in the nicest mine box I've ever seen, but not $1000 nice. >>
Yes that is one impressive box!
Consider base metal content, design, mintage, history, etc.
2007/2008 ASE
1996-W $5 Smithsonian
1997-W $5 Jackie Robinson
1997-W $5 F.D.R.
1999-W $5 Washington
2001-W $5 Capitol Visitor
2002-W $5 Salt Lake City Olympics
2000-W $10 Library
Various First Spouse coins
Or...........2008 Fractional Buffalos and Platinums??
As far as the Buffalos consider the price history of 500,000 Silver dollars...................
<< <i> You could probably assemble almost a full set of $25s for not much more than melt, that might not be true in a year or two. >>
Anyone selling almost a full set near melt today needs to be in a rubber room if that is happening.
I admit I haven't verified it. But I suspect that most of the 1997 to 2003 coins can be found for small premiums to melt. To the extent they aren't, it's less a factor of this Mint announcement than a reluctance to adjust prices down so sharply from a few months ago, when platinum was $2,000 an ounce.
to the effect of "previous reported final mintages may be adjusted by additional product being available"
are their any 2004 proof plat sets in the mix?
doubt it. but one never knows.
The unc-w plats are the way to go. Proofs have me a little scared. I think they minted well beyond 04 levels.
My best guess - 2500 or less for both quarters and halfs including sets....(unc-w's), maybe as low as 2250. Blowing 2006-w out of the water.
Hey - just my opinion.......
Can someone shed some light for me?
Thanks!
Coolest,
There are more reports out there showing 2005s being lower in mintage than the 2004s than most of us care to see. Most of those reports come from a time where the mint published numbers for 2005 that were dated prior to the close of sales for the 2005 coins in 2006. Those numbers were revised by the mint and final numbers were published later. The new numbers published are closer to the final sales numbers reported by the office of public affairs at the mint during the last days of sales in 2006.
These are the final numbers published by the mint for 2004s (as of Nov 2008):
And, these are the final numbers published by the mint for 2005s (as of Nov 2008):
$50 and $100, maybe.
$10 and $25, i doubt it.
just my opinion
we will see who is correct.
I looked online to find anything for sale and couldn't find much, either all sold out or high priced MS70 PR70 type stuff. It looks like supply has dried up beyond Ebay so once these sell out then the real ballgame begins IMO.
Anyone wanting to collect has to go into the aftermarket. Only the proof plat one ounce is left and few will be selling their plat collections.
with the release of info from the USM as far as the unc-w plat series being "closed" for all denoms with only a three year run changed my opinion.
if this 08-w unc issue is the lowest mintage even by a few coins, pricing should be more dramatic to the upside than my previous thoughts in the first scenario.
again, my opinion only
<< <i>if this 08-w unc issue is the lowest mintage even by a few coins, pricing should be more dramatic to the upside than my previous thoughts in the first scenario. >>
I agree....BUT....
As a closed series, at amazingly low mintages, I can't help but believe that these will be the "Pan-Pacs" of our century. Regardless of 2008 vs. 2006.
Heck, these are even less minted then the 1999-W unc golds.
FloridaBill
I have a sealed First Strike eligible 4 coin Proof set and a second set that is non eligible for FS but eligible for return.
I have looked at the non eligible set and 2 of the coins have marks that make them PR68-69 at best.
Now here is the question..........Should I keep all 8 coins submiting those first 4 blindly for FS labels?
or should I open the sealed coins pick best 4 from 8 total and return 4??
How many First Strikes have been reported for the 2008 unc-w plats? A while back, if I recall correctly, the number was considerably lower than for 2007 and 2006.
If First Strikes for 2008 are scarce, that could affect pricing going forward since there are some people that prefer them for registry sets or other reasons. I personally like MS69 First Strikes because the premium isn't huge, the coins still look nice and IMO the holders are more attractive than the plain-vanilla MS69 holders.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Hello Eric!
Good to see you back!
So, given what has just happened, what is your
new take on everything?
David
-Halfstrike
As a closed series, at amazingly low mintages, I can't help but believe that these will be the "Pan-Pacs" of our century. Regardless of 2008 vs. 2006.
-FloridaBill
I agree with both of you. The argument about 2008 v 2006 is getting to be pretty silly. None of us know what 2008 mintages will be, and are only reading tea leaves. Time will tell.
And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. ALL of the platinum w-uncs are going to benefit from the end of the program: we're looking at a 3 year series with mintages predominantly under 5,000. On the $25s and $50s, we already know there can't be more than 2600 sets for the 3 years. For the $100s, the number is about 3,000. If 2008 numbers come in lower, even better.
Heck, the 2007s might be the best of the lot -- I don't know anyone who hoarded those, and if a big buyer entered the market, I'm guessing it would be a lot harder to find a big supply of 2007s than 2006 or 2008.
On another note, I'd love to see NGC and PCGS offer a 3 coin holder to show each of the 2006-2008 coins together; The Foundations of Democracy set.
............"Heck, the 2007s might be the best of the lot -- I don't know anyone who hoarded those, and if a big buyer entered the market, I'm guessing it would be a lot harder to find a big supply of 2007s than 2006 or 2008."...............
I melted all the 1 and 1/2 oz 07s I had in March-May of this year.
Broke them out of 4 coin sets figuring I cleared the 1/4 and 1/10.
I agree that while published numbers look higher than 06 actual surviving coins are anyones guess..........
San Diego, CA
That's true. But when a coin is sold to Kitco for melt value, it generally stops being handled in a way that would preserve the surfaces, and if it were returned to the collector market, it likely wouldn't grade 69. Maybe down the road there would be a numismatic market for a MS65 platinum uncirculated coin, but for now that market doesn't exist.
<< <i>There's a big difference in selling a coin for melt and actually melting the coin. I hear so many saying I melted mine when they sold it to a company like Kitco that resales most of the coins on their site.
That's true. But when a coin is sold to Kitco for melt value, it generally stops being handled in a way that would preserve the surfaces, and if it were returned to the collector market, it likely wouldn't grade 69. Maybe down the road there would be a numismatic market for a MS65 platinum uncirculated coin, but for now that market doesn't exist. >>
That's a assumption on your part, not mine. In most cases the COA and box are sold too and if it's already in a tpg holder then really there's more than a fair chance that the coin remains fine. They just don't crack out a coin because they purchased it for melt. JMO
I believe Eric did the same just more aggressively..............
The set I sold was raw in OGP but I did cherry pick several coins to get that set as close to 70 as I could. There are ethical issues with the scuffers approach I do not agree with, but hey - they are your coins - do with them what you wish.
Uh. okay. you seem a little argumentative. I'm not assuming anything. I've never suggested that all coins sold for melt have been melted, or even that all coins sold for melt have been damaged. You're right, they could be in pristine condition with original boxes and COA or in slabs, or whatever.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to quantify how many may have been destroyed or damaged. I expect it's unlikely to be a significant percentage. But contributors to this forum HAVE reported scuffing them before selling them to a bullion dealer, and it stands to reason that some number of the ones we haven't heard about have also effectively been removed from the collectible population. With the uncirculated w platinums, it wouldn't even matter if all of them survive in pristine condition, they are very low mintage coins.
I like the term "the scuffers". As a collector, I agree - the idea of intentionally harming a coin makes me uncomfortable.
But I suppose if you knew you were selling it to someone who was only buying it for the bullion, for whom condition was irrelevant, I do understand the motivation. It's basically assuring that a coin sold at melt, for non-numismatic use, is removed from the population. I'm certain that the scuffers only did so in those limited circumstances, not in situations where a potential collector had gotten a good deal on ebay or something.
<< <i>There are ethical issues with the scuffers approach I do not agree with,
I like the term "the scuffers". As a collector, I agree - the idea of intentionally harming a coin makes me uncomfortable.
>>
The scuffers at least leave the coin for another day, the melters turn it into putty.
PS If someone sells a set for bullion then I have no problem modifying the set to bullion so the person that receives it gets what he paid for, bullion and nothing more.
$100...1670
$50...837
$25...1080
$10...2398
4 COIN SET ....1571
UNC "W" PLATS
$100..423
$50...849
$25...2504
$10...2138
4 COIN SET ....1257
PROOF BUFF GOLD
1 OZ....11132
.5 OZ...1625
.25 OZ...3607
.1 OZ ...9998
4 SET...6884
<< <i>PROOF PLATINUM EAGLES AS OF 11/10/2008
$100...1670
$50...837
$25...1080
$10...2398
4 COIN SET ....1571
UNC "W" PLATS
$100..423
$50...849
$25...2504
$10...2138
4 COIN SET ....1257
PROOF BUFF GOLD
1 OZ....11132
.5 OZ...1625
.25 OZ...3607
.1 OZ ...9998
4 SET...6884 >>
??? PLATINUM UNC
$25...2504
$10...2138
Did you reverse these #'s?
The $10 went down and the $25 when up?
San Diego, CA