Thanks for the great analysis. I think you're right. And I love the pics. Still can't decide if '99 or '01 are my favorites, but those early ones are the bomb!
Thanks for the great analysis. I think you're right. And I love the pics. Still can't decide if '99 or '01 are my favorites, but those early ones are the bomb!
<<Agreed with your post except for one addition......many of us believe the 1500 added sales this week were just that - added SALES, bearing no relation to coins available.>>
<<IMO, the numbers look very skewed, looking for a correction in the numbers over the next week or two, my personal opinion that 1/4's did not exceed 1000 pieces in single option format.>>
With my newly delivered 1/4s staring at me...I'm hoping you're right. Although I rarely flip a coin, it would be nice to own a low mintage item.
Is the Mint still sending out the $25's these last few days? or they are backordered and maybe gone for good?
The fact that they keep pushing the "Product will be available for shipping" date back suggests that they are out of stock.
However, a number of people have expressed an intention to return their $25s, so it seems likely $25s will be available again once returns are processed.
Out of the 4 25s I ordered, only one 25 was a keeper. I'm sending almost all my UNCs back. I had some halves and 1 set. Only found 1 keeper out of 10 that I inspected. I ordered 2 more sets yesterday in the hopes that I may find some keepers, but it doesn't look promising for now.
Like other posters have said, if you look at them closely with an eye towards getting a PCGS MS70, very few can cut the mustard.
i just got a 1/4 Unc Plat today. i ordered it the day they went on backorder. my brother ordered some 30 minutes before i ordered this one, his wasn't on backorder and mine was. i forget the day.
If you are thinking of flipping your unc. on the bay...good luck. The proofs are doing a little bid better...not as many listed. 104 .. 2008 Plats currently listed.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Thanks for the great analysis. I think you're right. And I love the pics. Still can't decide if '99 or '01 are my favorites, but those early ones are the bomb! >>
Yes!! The Vistas of Liberty subseries were the best designs on these proof plats. Simply Stunning.
I don't see any reason for the Mint to yank the buffs for a long time. They are fairly brisk sellers, it seems, and gorgeous, too. I got a 1/4 oz and I love just pulling it out and looking at it.
Interesting thing about the fractional Buffalos is that there are no bullion counterparts. First time this has occurred in any of the bullion-related series.
Gives me Hope! I have a 1/2 Oz'er and it is perfect except for an area on the rim on the reverse where it appears there is some reflective smoothing from the ejection process.
So the lowest completed of this is 2000 sets finished in 2006.
If 2008 ties 2006 with 2000 sets there are still almost a thousand sets to sell. So possibly add 1000 more coins to single sales. Let's see what the numbers are this week but there are really two numbers that matter as we know, singles and 4 coin sets.
It's too bad they have those cheaper bullion plats, I think those hold back the real collector versions. It may be a catch twenty-two though, we get the low mintages due to them but also are limited in future potential along with it. Right now the mint just has too much though in gold especially, maybe they make changes like has been spoken about <<<fingers crossed>>>
Now that the dust is beginning to settle on 2008, who thinks that the High Relief Saint will be more interesting than the 2009 Plats?
I think that it will be heavily bought and might not ever develop a numismatic premium, but I sure like the coin.
OTOH, if the 2009 Plats are issued with the proposed politically-hyped design, 2008 might have been my last year buying them. And I'd really regret that.
What to do? What to do?
I guess that it's not too late to switch over to gold Buffs. Or maybe just fall back onto the AGEs - they haven't screwed up that series yet. Hmmmmmm.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Now that the dust is beginning to settle on 2008, who thinks that the High Relief Saint will be more interesting than the 2009 Plats?
I think that it will be heavily bought and might not ever develop a numismatic premium, but I sure like the coin.
OTOH, if the 2009 Plats are issued with the proposed politically-hyped design, 2008 might have been my last year buying them. And I'd really regret that.
What to do? What to do?
I guess that it's not too late to switch over to gold Buffs. Or maybe just fall back onto the AGEs - they haven't screwed up that series yet. Hmmmmmm. >>
Unless the design changes for the plats, the High Relief will definitely be more interesting and in-demand. In fact, if they do what they say with the plats design, I think sales are going to hit rock bottom. I'm also thinking of just giving up the series if that's the case. It's not so much the PC theme for me, as just a very boring design. They should stick to images that inspire--nature, for instance. The only reason I'd buy that proposed design is just speculation about how low the mintage will be, and I hate to do that.
Those gold buffs, on the other hand, are a real winner. I, too, am thinking about starting to collect those on a regular basis. Has anyone heard if the High Relief Saints will be continued past the first year? Is there still talk of a palladium version for subsequent years?
<< <i>Now that the dust is beginning to settle on 2008, who thinks that the High Relief Saint will be more interesting than the 2009 Plats?
I think that it will be heavily bought and might not ever develop a numismatic premium, but I sure like the coin.
OTOH, if the 2009 Plats are issued with the proposed politically-hyped design, 2008 might have been my last year buying them. And I'd really regret that.
What to do? What to do?
Same thoughts here. The PC treatment is so blatant. Where's the angry white guy representation on that coin?
Your Platinum Proof collection is awesome! I cannot afford the Platinum Proof Eagles, but when I saw your 1997 & 1998, I decided I must save enough to buy the 1/0 or 1/4 oz. They are beautiful! Could you suggest a few reputable stores I could buy from and what would be a reasonable price for proofs in those two sizes, OGP or PF69?
<< <i>Has anyone heard if the High Relief Saints will be continued past the first year? Is there still talk of a palladium version for subsequent years? >>
The proposed legislation states that coins would be minted in .995 pure palladium, but provides that during the first year of minting and issuance, coins may instead by minted and issued in .999 pure gold. If coins are minted in gold during the first year, they would be issued only in proof version, also no coins would be minted in palladium during the first year.
Hmmmmmmm...the 2009 High Relief Saint palladium, platinum, silver, 22 carat, or unc error coins... The Mint HAS to do (screw-up) something for us???
The HR will be minted to oblivion, no rarity there.....
True. Very true. But it's a very cool coin, imo.
The PC treatment is so blatant. Where's the angry white guy representation on that coin?
In addition to the PC, they are playing games with the Eagle. Frankly, I'm surprised that they don't just eliminate the Eagle entirely to make room for a motto that says, "Made in China".
I'm also thinking of just giving up the series if that's the case. It's not so much the PC theme for me, as just a very boring design. They should stick to images that inspire--nature, for instance. The only reason I'd buy that proposed design is just speculation about how low the mintage will be, and I hate to do that.
I walked away from the Proof Silver Eagles in 1995 and never looked back. It's easy - you just focus your attention elsewhere. There's always plenty of different coins to collect and there's no point in buying something that has gone wrong.
The Mint's margins are pushing people back toward the old, worn-out, circulated classic gold pieces. It looks like the pendulum might be swinging the other way after all these years since 1986.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Your Platinum Proof collection is awesome! I cannot afford the Platinum Proof Eagles, but when I saw your 1997 & 1998, I decided I must save enough to buy the 1/0 or 1/4 oz. They are beautiful! Could you suggest a few reputable stores I could buy from and what would be a reasonable price for proofs in those two sizes, OGP or PF69?
Thanks,
Al >>
Places I've bought from include APMEX Richard's Coins (on eBay) Modern Coin Mart (a bit pricey IMHO)
The problem is finding what you'd like these days. Many places just have nothing in stock. I'd put out a request on the BST board and see what comes up.
<< <i>Has anyone heard if the High Relief Saints will be continued past the first year? Is there still talk of a palladium version for subsequent years? >>
The proposed legislation states that coins would be minted in .995 pure palladium, but provides that during the first year of minting and issuance, coins may instead by minted and issued in .999 pure gold. If coins are minted in gold during the first year, they would be issued only in proof version, also no coins would be minted in palladium during the first year.
Hmmmmmmm...the 2009 High Relief Saint palladium, platinum, silver, 22 carat, or unc error coins... The Mint HAS to do (screw-up) something for us??? >>
I still can't imagine this great design in Palladium. It'd look better in terra cotta. Thanks for the info, though. I'll see everyone in line for the HR gold!
Your Platinum Proof collection is awesome! I cannot afford the Platinum Proof Eagles, but when I saw your 1997 & 1998, I decided I must save enough to buy the 1/0 or 1/4 oz. They are beautiful! Could you suggest a few reputable stores I could buy from and what would be a reasonable price for proofs in those two sizes, OGP or PF69?
Thanks,
Al
Hi Al! Thank you! You can keep your eye on Teletrade as the Platinum Proofs have gone down on price and they are available regularly there. I recommend the 1/4s over the 1/10s for a few reasons:
1. On the 1/4s the design is easily viewed without visual aids while the 1/10s seem a little smaller and the design is not as easily viewable. You'll appreciate them better in hand. 2. The premium on the 1/4s is not as big if you consider that for a little more than the price of a 1/10 you get 1/2 like low mintages. 3. The 1/10s are collected more and therefore have higher premiums at the top (not higher than a 1/4 but higher percentage wise).
When I started collecting them I realized I could not afford all the denominations (especially at the time). The pops were very low at the time and the price on the 1 OZ coins was very high. I bought them little by little as the pop on the 97 back then was 3 (in PR70) and the 2004 was 5 (in PR70 as well). I first bought the 97 and 2004 in PR69 and later on I picked up the 5th 97 to make 70. The 2004 was the 6th (at the time).
You don't have to buy them all at once. Start with the ones you like the most, as you can. Later on you can pick up the rest (budget permitting). Just settle for a denomination that fits your budget. They are all beautiful!
Another alternative is to buy them in OGP and grade them yourself. You can assemble a very high grade set in OGP and save a lot of money that way. If you like them go for it and don't let anything stop you. The full set is beautiful!!! Thank you!
1. On the 1/4s the design is easily viewed without visual aids while the 1/10s seem a little smaller and the design is not as easily viewable. You'll appreciate them better in hand.
I've noticed, especially in the satin finish Plats that the 1/10th ozers don't seem to be struck-up as well and that the detail seems fuzzy to me. Maybe it's just the finish playing tricks with the depth-of-field because the Proofs seem ok.
But either way, Neo is right about being able to better appreciate the 1/4 oz. coins in hand. The 1/10 ozers are smaller than a dime, while the 1/4 ozers are just a bit smaller than a nickel.
If you limit yourself to a single denomination, you can focus your investment money and enjoy a complete design series at the same time. Sound advice.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I also agree. My favorites are the 1oz coins, but they can be cost prohibitive.
The $25 is much more affordable, and is similar in size to $5 gold coins, buffalo nickels... a size that has a pretty good history with collectors.
On the UNC-w side, a 3 coin collection of 2006 to 2008 is easy to assemble, and that each of these coins has a mintage under 4,000(!) is pretty amazing when you think about it.
On the proofs, even going back to 1997, you can assemble the entire set a coin at a time, with most of the coins costing only slightly more than melt value; really quite incredible considering the time and expense it cost to create the designs and strike these coins.
In my opinion, the main thing that has held these coins back has been the fractional aspect of platinums. If the Mint had just limited platinums to the $25 size, just as it did with $5 gold commemoratives, this would be a completely different collectible.
To me, the platinums are at their heart more of a fractional commemorative than a bullion series. The American Eagle silver and gold coins are bullion coins. The design is stagant. I don't say that to undercut those who collect them -- they are certainly collectible. But, in my mind, the changing reverse on the platinums really sets them apart.
I think, outside of the bullion cost, the main reason they haven't caught on in numbers greater than they have is that the Mint has done such a bad job marketing them. Platinum is outside of what most dealers understand or feel comfortable with. They don't have an established market, and dealers avoid them. Other than a few of us on this board, platinums really don't have anyone out there spreading the word. They are some of the best of what the Mint has created in in recent history, and are truly an underappreciated series.
Also, repeating what I've said in the past, there are several other compelling aspects to collecting platinum coins when it comes to valuation.
I absolutely agree that coin collecting should not just be about investment; but anytime you collect something there is an investment component to it.
As a collector, I want one of those soon to be issued high relief gold coins. Should I buy at the Mint's price, or will I get a better deal on the secondary market? All aspects of our hobby have a cost-benefit analysis; prices fluctuate with supply and demand.
Wise collectors recognize that there are times it's important to get in on the ground floor, while other times it's better to wait for a market to cool before getting involved.
Great coins can be slow starters... and the slow starters often do a lot better at holding value than their flash-in-the-pan counterparts. Slow starters often are initially rejected by the market; but most of them have a few things in common; the predominant one is simple: low mintage figures/low population. Now, low mintage figures alone do not guarantee that a coin will be successful. But it never hurts.
Generally, the best coins are those with a small population compared to their collector base. The Mint makes a 1995 silver eagle with a "w" mintmark, and a population of about 30,000. If it were a platinum coin, it would be worth melt. But because the collector base for silver eagles is so large, 30,000 makes it a relative scarcity, and the market bids it up to a few thousand dollars. The 1997 Jackie Robinson uncirculated $5 gold was a relatively uninspired design, lost in a long series of $5 commemoratives... but the mintage figures come out, and people took notice. Now, a coin that could have been purchased for a few hundred dollars 9 years ago commands a few thousand dollars.
There is no reason that the underappreciated platinum coins can't do the same; the hurdle that exists is creating demand. I know that the demand may never come. Platinums have largely been ignored, and are lost in a sea of collectibles issued by the Mint, many of which seem cheaper because they have a lower price; even though the inherent value of what you are receiving is much less.
Anyway, as a collector, I have a certain amount of faith that good coins will be recognized in time. And the platinums are certainly good coins. Great designs, nice looking coins, low mintage numbers... it isn't hard for me to be a believer. They won't ever be collected the way Silver Eagles are, but they certainly could be collected by a collector base larger than they have at present. And I believe they will be.
The cost of collecting these coins is high, not in relative to melt, but still high at $100+ minimum per coin, but also you are not likely to find these coins all at once anyways.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
The cost of collecting these coins is high, not in relative to melt, but still high at $100+ minimum per coin, but also you are not likely to find these coins all at once anyways.....
Certainly true; barriers to entry exist. Jumping into these coins isn't the same as starting a collection of buffalo nickels or mercury dimes, where a couple of bucks can get you going. But focusing on a single denomination, and the coins really aren't so bad... the $10 and $25 acquisition costs certainly compare favorably to starting a collection of $5 gold commems or basic classic gold coins.
Again, these coins will never have a base as large as silver eagles or common proof sets, where $30 is all that's required. The platinum coins don't have high enough populations to sustain a base that large even if it could exist. A base of about 8,000 to 10,000 collectors would be the sweet spot.
Comments
And here it's the rest of the designs:
<< <i>Number of raw ogp in current eBay auctions.
1/10-54
1/4-45
1/2-12
Is this for 2008 or all years?
Is this for bullion, burnished or proof plats? (Or all three?) >>
2008-w burnished only.
I counted coins not auctions, ie a auction with 5 available I count that as 5.
Thanks for the great analysis. I think you're right. And I love the pics. Still can't decide if '99 or '01 are my favorites, but those early ones are the bomb!
Thanks for the great analysis. I think you're right. And I love the pics. Still can't decide if '99 or '01 are my favorites, but those early ones are the bomb!
Thank you Grits! I like 1998 myself!!!
Ah, back to the "slow flip" which I like better!
Neo, you've got some flashy coins there!
I knew it would happen.
Thanks!!!
Well hello knucklehead! Welcome to the boards old friend!
<<IMO, the numbers look very skewed, looking for a correction in the numbers over the next week or two, my personal opinion that 1/4's did not exceed 1000 pieces in single option format.>>
With my newly delivered 1/4s staring at me...I'm hoping you're right. Although I rarely flip a coin, it would be nice to own a low mintage item.
San Diego, CA
The fact that they keep pushing the "Product will be available for shipping" date back suggests that they are out of stock.
However, a number of people have expressed an intention to return their $25s, so it seems likely $25s will be available again once returns are processed.
Like other posters have said, if you look at them closely with an eye towards getting a PCGS MS70, very few can cut the mustard.
San Diego, CA
Does PCGS do a multi holder for plats? I don't see it anywhere on the website. I see Brand N does.
ren
For plats, it appears that MS69 is the new PO01!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
C
<< <i>a few choppy marks on the inner rim wont drag it too much, I have 70's with a choppy rim..... >>
NGC?
<< <i>Hey Neo!
Thanks for the great analysis. I think you're right. And I love the pics. Still can't decide if '99 or '01 are my favorites, but those early ones are the bomb! >>
Yes!! The Vistas of Liberty subseries were the best designs on these proof plats. Simply Stunning.
PCGS!!!!
The numbers will tell the story
Looking for a HUGE correction on that 1/4......
I still like this one, and I am interested in the fractional buffaloes too, but I am wondering how soon they will sell out....
Interesting thing about the fractional Buffalos is that there are no bullion counterparts. First time this has occurred in any of the bullion-related series.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Nope -
PCGS!!!! >>
Gives me Hope! I have a 1/2 Oz'er and it is perfect except for an area on the rim
on the reverse where it appears there is some reflective smoothing from the
ejection process.
2006 2000
2007 2559
2008 1053 so far
So the lowest completed of this is 2000 sets finished in 2006.
If 2008 ties 2006 with 2000 sets there are still almost a thousand sets to sell.
In checking recent auctions, I'm noticing that common bullion 1/10 ounce $10 plats are fetching $130 to $145, plus shipping.
That's close to the $149.95 price for 2008-W proof $10 plats directly from the Mint.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I think that it will be heavily bought and might not ever develop a numismatic premium, but I sure like the coin.
OTOH, if the 2009 Plats are issued with the proposed politically-hyped design, 2008 might have been my last year buying them. And I'd really regret that.
What to do? What to do?
I guess that it's not too late to switch over to gold Buffs. Or maybe just fall back onto the AGEs - they haven't screwed up that series yet. Hmmmmmm.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Now that the dust is beginning to settle on 2008, who thinks that the High Relief Saint will be more interesting than the 2009 Plats?
I think that it will be heavily bought and might not ever develop a numismatic premium, but I sure like the coin.
OTOH, if the 2009 Plats are issued with the proposed politically-hyped design, 2008 might have been my last year buying them. And I'd really regret that.
What to do? What to do?
I guess that it's not too late to switch over to gold Buffs. Or maybe just fall back onto the AGEs - they haven't screwed up that series yet. Hmmmmmm.
Unless the design changes for the plats, the High Relief will definitely be more interesting and in-demand. In fact, if they do what they say with the plats design, I think sales are going to hit rock bottom. I'm also thinking of just giving up the series if that's the case. It's not so much the PC theme for me, as just a very boring design. They should stick to images that inspire--nature, for instance. The only reason I'd buy that proposed design is just speculation about how low the mintage will be, and I hate to do that.
Those gold buffs, on the other hand, are a real winner. I, too, am thinking about starting to collect those on a regular basis. Has anyone heard if the High Relief Saints will be continued past the first year? Is there still talk of a palladium version for subsequent years?
<< <i>Now that the dust is beginning to settle on 2008, who thinks that the High Relief Saint will be more interesting than the 2009 Plats?
I think that it will be heavily bought and might not ever develop a numismatic premium, but I sure like the coin.
OTOH, if the 2009 Plats are issued with the proposed politically-hyped design, 2008 might have been my last year buying them. And I'd really regret that.
What to do? What to do?
Same thoughts here. The PC treatment is so blatant. Where's the angry white guy representation on that coin?
Ren
<< <i>Im with you there. The only Pt. I own is 2006, 07, and 08 and likely that is it for me. Does anyone now of a 3 coin holder to hold these? >>
I asked that earlier to no avail. NGC has a nice holder though.
If you look forward......this is the only game in town right now and for the near future.
The HR will be minted to oblivion, no rarity there.....
The Plats next year are PC coins, no more, no less,
When you least expect it, some current issue FINAL mintages might surprise you.
Your Platinum Proof collection is awesome! I cannot afford the Platinum Proof Eagles, but when I saw your 1997 & 1998, I decided I must save enough to buy the 1/0 or 1/4 oz. They are beautiful! Could you suggest a few reputable stores I could buy from and what would be a reasonable price for proofs in those two sizes, OGP or PF69?
Thanks,
Al
<< <i>Has anyone heard if the High Relief Saints will be continued past the first year? Is there still talk of a palladium version for subsequent years? >>
The proposed legislation states that coins would be minted in .995 pure palladium, but provides that during the first year of minting and issuance, coins may instead by minted and issued in .999 pure gold. If coins are minted in gold during the first year, they would be issued only in proof version, also no coins would be minted in palladium during the first year.
Hmmmmmmm...the 2009 High Relief Saint palladium, platinum, silver, 22 carat, or unc error coins...
True. Very true. But it's a very cool coin, imo.
The PC treatment is so blatant. Where's the angry white guy representation on that coin?
In addition to the PC, they are playing games with the Eagle. Frankly, I'm surprised that they don't just eliminate the Eagle entirely to make room for a motto that says, "Made in China".
I'm also thinking of just giving up the series if that's the case. It's not so much the PC theme for me, as just a very boring design. They should stick to images that inspire--nature, for instance. The only reason I'd buy that proposed design is just speculation about how low the mintage will be, and I hate to do that.
I walked away from the Proof Silver Eagles in 1995 and never looked back. It's easy - you just focus your attention elsewhere. There's always plenty of different coins to collect and there's no point in buying something that has gone wrong.
The Mint's margins are pushing people back toward the old, worn-out, circulated classic gold pieces. It looks like the pendulum might be swinging the other way after all these years since 1986.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Hi NeoStar,
Your Platinum Proof collection is awesome! I cannot afford the Platinum Proof Eagles, but when I saw your 1997 & 1998, I decided I must save enough to buy the 1/0 or 1/4 oz. They are beautiful! Could you suggest a few reputable stores I could buy from and what would be a reasonable price for proofs in those two sizes, OGP or PF69?
Thanks,
Al >>
Places I've bought from include
APMEX
Richard's Coins (on eBay)
Modern Coin Mart (a bit pricey IMHO)
The problem is finding what you'd like these days. Many places just have nothing in stock. I'd put out a request on the BST board and see what comes up.
<< <i>
<< <i>Has anyone heard if the High Relief Saints will be continued past the first year? Is there still talk of a palladium version for subsequent years? >>
The proposed legislation states that coins would be minted in .995 pure palladium, but provides that during the first year of minting and issuance, coins may instead by minted and issued in .999 pure gold. If coins are minted in gold during the first year, they would be issued only in proof version, also no coins would be minted in palladium during the first year.
Hmmmmmmm...the 2009 High Relief Saint palladium, platinum, silver, 22 carat, or unc error coins...
I still can't imagine this great design in Palladium. It'd look better in terra cotta. Thanks for the info, though. I'll see everyone in line for the HR gold!
Your Platinum Proof collection is awesome! I cannot afford the Platinum Proof Eagles, but when I saw your 1997 & 1998, I decided I must save enough to buy the 1/0 or 1/4 oz. They are beautiful! Could you suggest a few reputable stores I could buy from and what would be a reasonable price for proofs in those two sizes, OGP or PF69?
Thanks,
Al
Hi Al! Thank you! You can keep your eye on Teletrade as the Platinum Proofs have gone down on price and they are available regularly there. I recommend the 1/4s over the 1/10s for a few reasons:
1. On the 1/4s the design is easily viewed without visual aids while the 1/10s seem a little smaller and the design is not as easily viewable. You'll appreciate them better in hand.
2. The premium on the 1/4s is not as big if you consider that for a little more than the price of a 1/10 you get 1/2 like low mintages.
3. The 1/10s are collected more and therefore have higher premiums at the top (not higher than a 1/4 but higher percentage wise).
When I started collecting them I realized I could not afford all the denominations (especially at the time). The pops were very low at the time and the price on the 1 OZ coins was very high. I bought them little by little as the pop on the 97 back then was 3 (in PR70) and the 2004 was 5 (in PR70 as well). I first bought the 97 and 2004 in PR69 and later on I picked up the 5th 97 to make 70. The 2004 was the 6th (at the time).
You don't have to buy them all at once. Start with the ones you like the most, as you can. Later on you can pick up the rest (budget permitting). Just settle for a denomination that fits your budget. They are all beautiful!
Another alternative is to buy them in OGP and grade them yourself. You can assemble a very high grade set in OGP and save a lot of money that way. If you like them go for it and don't let anything stop you. The full set is beautiful!!! Thank you!
Neo
I've noticed, especially in the satin finish Plats that the 1/10th ozers don't seem to be struck-up as well and that the detail seems fuzzy to me. Maybe it's just the finish playing tricks with the depth-of-field because the Proofs seem ok.
But either way, Neo is right about being able to better appreciate the 1/4 oz. coins in hand. The 1/10 ozers are smaller than a dime, while the 1/4 ozers are just a bit smaller than a nickel.
If you limit yourself to a single denomination, you can focus your investment money and enjoy a complete design series at the same time. Sound advice.
I knew it would happen.
The $25 is much more affordable, and is similar in size to $5 gold coins, buffalo nickels... a size that has a pretty good history with collectors.
On the UNC-w side, a 3 coin collection of 2006 to 2008 is easy to assemble, and that each of these coins has a mintage under 4,000(!) is pretty amazing when you think about it.
On the proofs, even going back to 1997, you can assemble the entire set a coin at a time, with most of the coins costing only slightly more than melt value; really quite incredible considering the time and expense it cost to create the designs and strike these coins.
In my opinion, the main thing that has held these coins back has been the fractional aspect of platinums. If the Mint had just limited platinums to the $25 size, just as it did with $5 gold commemoratives, this would be a completely different collectible.
To me, the platinums are at their heart more of a fractional commemorative than a bullion series. The American Eagle silver and gold coins are bullion coins. The design is stagant. I don't say that to undercut those who collect them -- they are certainly collectible. But, in my mind, the changing reverse on the platinums really sets them apart.
I think, outside of the bullion cost, the main reason they haven't caught on in numbers greater than they have is that the Mint has done such a bad job marketing them. Platinum is outside of what most dealers understand or feel comfortable with. They don't have an established market, and dealers avoid them. Other than a few of us on this board, platinums really don't have anyone out there spreading the word. They are some of the best of what the Mint has created in in recent history, and are truly an underappreciated series.
I absolutely agree that coin collecting should not just be about investment; but anytime you collect something there is an investment component to it.
As a collector, I want one of those soon to be issued high relief gold coins. Should I buy at the Mint's price, or will I get a better deal on the secondary market? All aspects of our hobby have a cost-benefit analysis; prices fluctuate with supply and demand.
Wise collectors recognize that there are times it's important to get in on the ground floor, while other times it's better to wait for a market to cool before getting involved.
Great coins can be slow starters... and the slow starters often do a lot better at holding value than their flash-in-the-pan counterparts. Slow starters often are initially rejected by the market; but most of them have a few things in common; the predominant one is simple: low mintage figures/low population. Now, low mintage figures alone do not guarantee that a coin will be successful. But it never hurts.
Generally, the best coins are those with a small population compared to their collector base. The Mint makes a 1995 silver eagle with a "w" mintmark, and a population of about 30,000. If it were a platinum coin, it would be worth melt. But because the collector base for silver eagles is so large, 30,000 makes it a relative scarcity, and the market bids it up to a few thousand dollars. The 1997 Jackie Robinson uncirculated $5 gold was a relatively uninspired design, lost in a long series of $5 commemoratives... but the mintage figures come out, and people took notice. Now, a coin that could have been purchased for a few hundred dollars 9 years ago commands a few thousand dollars.
There is no reason that the underappreciated platinum coins can't do the same; the hurdle that exists is creating demand. I know that the demand may never come. Platinums have largely been ignored, and are lost in a sea of collectibles issued by the Mint, many of which seem cheaper because they have a lower price; even though the inherent value of what you are receiving is much less.
Anyway, as a collector, I have a certain amount of faith that good coins will be recognized in time. And the platinums are certainly good coins. Great designs, nice looking coins, low mintage numbers... it isn't hard for me to be a believer. They won't ever be collected the way Silver Eagles are, but they certainly could be collected by a collector base larger than they have at present. And I believe they will be.
Certainly true; barriers to entry exist. Jumping into these coins isn't the same as starting a collection of buffalo nickels or mercury dimes, where a couple of bucks can get you going. But focusing on a single denomination, and the coins really aren't so bad... the $10 and $25 acquisition costs certainly compare favorably to starting a collection of $5 gold commems or basic classic gold coins.
Again, these coins will never have a base as large as silver eagles or common proof sets, where $30 is all that's required. The platinum coins don't have high enough populations to sustain a base that large even if it could exist. A base of about 8,000 to 10,000 collectors would be the sweet spot.