Even if the sales numbers change and many people send their coins back there is still so much time left for these to sell. Obviously the mint had a lot more of these to sell than we all hoped. The quarters still are not black. The cat is out of the bag on these. Everybody will be watching. It sure was fun for a little while. I cancelled half of my coins. I hope there is some big surprise with the numbers. I would like to make a little money on these. Lets face it though. A new low mintage coin is not in the cards. The $100 and $50 look like they have a chance but they don't. We all will be watching and we will make sure this doesn't happen.
I am pretty sure the numbers will go down in the short run with all the returns and cancellations. My main point and maybe I didn't make it very clear is that time is probably not our friend here. Even if the numbers all go down by half here people would just start buying again. The quarters not going black is one of the biggest telling stories here. The other one is the 1/10 mintage number going up even after they were black. Now I will admit that maybe the numbers are all way off. The number of people that know that these are for sale again from the mint and the number of people that will be watching these numbers in the next few months has to have gone up dramatically from what it was on the 17th of OCT. We really needed a quick sellout with low mintage for these to really take off. The quick sell out isn't happening and the low mintage doesn't appear to be happening either. Yes, anything is possible. I like to think I'm an optimist. It just doesn't look likely anywhere in the future. Believe me I hope I am wrong.
Raven, I hope to keep a few for the long run. No disrespect here but how can you be surprised by what is going on. Many people here have disclosed that they have purchased many of these. Did you think that they were planning on keeping hold of all of them. I would love to hold on to the lowest mintage coin in modern history. I had hoped that by paying attention to what was going on that I could by a few extra to pay for the ones I planned on holding onto and make a little money to buy a few other coins that I would like to hold onto. I look at my coin collecting as a separate entity in my whole financial picture. The more I can make the more I can accumulate and hold. I just don't make enough money from my real job to put much money into coins. Take care.
I don't see what the problem is with people returning coins, that is the way things are set up. In the long run it is good that people only have what they are willing to keep as that reduces flipping supply in the secondary market.
I think total sales will drop in the numbers next week too, probably dramatically. It won't prove though that this weeks numbers were "bad", only that they had a lot of returns perhaps. The sales will continue as long as it takes to sell off the remaining coins and the drop is sales will probably be recaptured again with new sales.
The key seems to be the total sales we already had, that is what they have to sell and what they will sell as they can keep selling until every last coin is gone or the 2009 coins become available. It is like a slow weekly dribble now and I am not expecting all options to go dark next month unless platinum prices rise to a level that these coins are just under spot.
It is too bad though that the 4 coin sets did not go into backorder so we had some hint of total coin numbers for those sets.
The numbers seem to say the mint did make more than the 2006 W UNC though and that is all that matters to some.
I think I got slammed by no other than the man himself...Eric Jordan...I keep wanting to call you Michael Jordan by the way. LOL Anyhow...don't take me so seriously when I post...I like a little humor to break things up, and a little sarcasm as well. Also just so you know guys... I am a Federal Employee and know all about the Mint and just about any other federal agency.
Also...just so you know...I am now holding over 100 UNC-W coins. The question is...do I return or not. I can afford to hold these coins well into old age. I also have many 2006 UNC-W's....most I got from the Mint that year. I agree with nycounsel and his posts. I am going to wait out the 30 day return period then make a WISE decision from there.
The key is long term investment/enjoyment...if you play it like that and stay away from the flipping game, then you can make a wiser decision on how much money to put into these coins. There is still 2009, 2010, etc...to look forward to. If you don't put all your money in one basket...one thing is for sure...you will sleep better at night.
If we see the next set of numbers with a severe correction (in the next week) in the 1/4 and 1/10 numbers, meaning a drop in 1/4's of something like 1000 or more pieces, we can be assured it is not from returns and was a foul up in reporting.
If, for some reason we see a drop in numbers two weeks or more out, we cant be sure if the numbers were bad, or if massive returns took place.
We'll see it looks like a fair number of these coins are held by members here. If you all wait a week we might not see results as soon as you think. But if a big coin promoter purchase quite a few like 06 they won't drop a bit and waiting more than likely won't hurt. JMO
<< <i>I don't see what the problem is with people returning coins, that is the way things are set up. In the long run it is good that people only have what they are willing to keep as that reduces flipping supply in the secondary market.
The numbers seem to say the mint did make more than the 2006 W UNC though and that is all that matters to some. >>
How do the numbers say that? I've been buying these for 8 years, some years in quantity and have always watched the sales numbers throughout the entire offering period. This weeks numbers tell me NOTHING. They make no sense at all. If they are correct than this would be an absolute first as they have never followed this type of trend throughout the entire program of plats (proof and unc). On the other hand there have been several instances where the mint has put out sales numbers that were blatantly wrong.
That is why it is prudent to wait. Or it may be prudent for you to return right away. It all depends on your tolerance for risk and the strength of your stomach. Speculating in the Mint's platinum program is not for the weak.
I had posted on this earlier - I think the collector interest is near to zero and only the flippers love these coins....Well, I do love and collect (one per year of each of the mid fractionals in W, proof, and bullion) them but think that flippers are going to sell these around until they end up in the bottom of somebody's drawer for a while....I just don't know why there is the disconnect to the general collecting community and think it may be related to the "Franklin Mint Syndrome" with the US mint offering just too many types of coins....
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
just don't know why there is the disconnect to the general collecting community and think it may be related to the "Franklin Mint Syndrome" with the US mint offering just too many types of coins....
------------------------- More Coins!
Above the line: too many coins! Below the line: More Coins!
<< <i> How do the numbers say that? I've been buying these for 8 years, some years in quantity and have always watched the sales numbers throughout the entire offering period. This weeks numbers tell me NOTHING. They make no sense at all. If they are correct than this would be an absolute first as they have never followed this type of trend throughout the entire program of plats (proof and unc). On the other hand there have been several instances where the mint has put out sales numbers that were blatantly wrong. >>
Well the numbers were just published and they are the same as posted so it tells us what the latest sales are. I don't think you can compare this rush of sales to normal years in the platinum program though. Most years are a sleeper.
The last rush was 2006 and those numbers went up and out quickly and were close except for the one ounce which was adjusted UP not down if I remember right, so the mint must be close on these is my guess. It is not like we are calculating the national deficit, it is just a few thousands coins after all.
I agree with you that it is up the each person to decide but it looks like many leveraged their purchases based on the chance that these broke under 2006. So far the sales numbers do show sales OVER 2006 for the 1/10 and 1/4 so that is what it is. Maybe like what was said some are waiting to return so next week the sales numbers hold up, then drop the week after. It is a rollercoaster is all but eventually the mint has months of time left to sell off all the remaining coins.
Like I said there is still a chance these coins are winners if they drop the 1/10 IMO as sales should increase for the remaining options. I just wish they had better designs for the followup series to bring interest to the set, as it is it will remain the sleeper coins they are, with many wondering what is happening.
Well, I do love coins so more coins are always good. As far as the plats go, I think the flippers have gone crazy and they have too many coins up of a particular issue and date. This would NOT be the same thing. I am also addressing the issue of greed and profit. I think it great that people use the mint for profit, just that I do not like it.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
No hard feelings Groth. I just wanted to point out that you can tough on the mint and its people. In some cases the mint does things that are not wise like the rest of us....................everybody needs some slack sometimes including you and I.
As a collector, the 2008 sets are still compelling.
4 coin set of coins with mintages that will almost certainly all end up below 5,000.
Even if the $25 is a relative dud, the $10 is fine, and the $100 and $50 look to have a reasonable chance at being below the 2006 levels.
Issue price of $2220, which is effectively a 1200/melt value.
Yes, we're below that now, but we were substantially above that before.
Although the purchase would not make sense as a bullion play, the downside is protected by that.
Anyway, as a collector, this is not a bad deal.
However, I can't disagree that anyone who purchased sets or $25s in bulk, hoping for a quick flip on ebay, should consider getting out.
The sets are still available, and with people running for the exit, I wouldn't expect those will go dark before the 30 day return window closes.
The $25s may or may not be available. We've seen the drifting "available for shipping" date before, and know that it could mean "unavailable", though it wouldn't be logical to assume that was the case, especially given the use of "unavailable" for the $10s.
There's no point trying to make sense of it; it's an exercise in futility to try to understand the Mint. The Mint does what it does.
Guys lets not let the big picture get away from us:
The changing reverse platinum eagle set already represnts 95% of all proof and unc issues with design and denomiation based type mintages of less than 7,000 coins since 1915.
DID YOU GET THAT?
I am putting my very high quality sets together and I know I will be very proud to own them in 30 years if the Lord allows me to live that long. Guys these things will have their day but do you have the foresight and patience to see it through with moderation?
I was not alive to pick up the Pan Pac slugs and Matt Gold Indian type set I would like to have. That opportunit came and went prior to my lifetime. Collectors contemporary to the Pan Pacs & Matt Indians considered them pricey. This is our chance in our time to put together the MEGA set that will not be affordable one day.
"The changing reverse platinum eagle set already represnts 95% of all proof and unc issues with design and denomiation based type mintages of less than 7,000 coins since 1915. DID YOU GET THAT?"
I've got the ONLY hoard out there of 5,000 units of Barry Manilow 8 track tapes from the early 1980's - so, where am I without DEMAND?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>"The changing reverse platinum eagle set already represnts 95% of all proof and unc issues with design and denomiation based type mintages of less than 7,000 coins since 1915. DID YOU GET THAT?"
I've got the ONLY hoard out there of 5,000 units of Barry Manilow 8 track tapes from the early 1980's - so, where am I without DEMAND?
Wondercoin >>
Ya should've hoarded a better artist, might be worth something.... Beatles 8-Tracks
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread in the last few pages. i see mention of a few winners among the hundreds of losers.. using that as a possible justification of a possible rise in price in the short term.
frankly, the bull run in PMs and the upswing in the coin market was, in my opinion, the reason for the few winners. Without a raging PM market and that always going up in value coin market... these rounds/coins do not have a chance. Chance meaning these 100% and up profits people were easily able to manage 3-4 years ago on new mint releases.
The market is being flooded and the peak has past us by. Now all that is left is the hardcore folks having this sensation of possible success that needs to be beaten out of them via poor results over the next few years.
That NN link shows we made the headline for the NN mintage page
Focus intense on platinum ‘W’ fractionals October 30, 2008 By David C. Harper
Online comments indicate intense focus on the uncirculated “W” fractional platinum mintages. The totals are still small, but some of them went up a lot in percentage terms. The tenth ounce is off sale.
The market is being flooded and the peak has past us by. Now all that is left is the hardcore folks having this sensation of possible success that needs to be beaten out of them via poor results over the next few years. >>
FC heaven help you when the classics are collected by type and not date and mint mark. The rest of the world is already very much there. We will be too at some point at the current rate. It may not be the modern guys crying! :-)
a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread in the last few pages.
Wow. That implies that you actually read the posts (on something that does not interest you). You spend so much time bashing modern threads that it makes me wonder if you are a modern closet case fighting what's inside...Don't fight it, embrace it. You'll feel better in the morning!
does a normal collector ussually buy multiples of the same coin for their collection? no. that is called a speculator.
does a normal collector care about how many are issued and how that will affect the price of the coin in the short/long term? no. that is called a speculator.
does a normal collector care about the design of the coin and discusses it vocally and passionately? Yes. That is not the premise of this thread. This thread is for speculators that revolves around sales and pricing.
You have a group of people all with similair hopes and wishes for these coins/rounds that keep propping up the discussion with the same points over and over. Almost like if you say it enough times it will come true.
A dissenting opinion gets flamed because it goes against the grain of the "group think". Many in this thread are hoping, no praying for success because there is a monetary reward behind it. They have money in play and this thread helps spread their propaganda far and wide.
The bigger fool theory is what this thread is about. Not collecting them but being able to convince enough people that this is a winner and flipping the extras you bought for a profit.
That is the state of the plat round/coins market right now. Not a grass roots bloom of interest but trying to market these as a collectible that has potential to make money down the road.
I'm glad to see fc's opinion--it's a nice counterpoint. Thank you. That doesn't mean I agree with it 100%, but you've certainly got some good points. Keep commenting!
Collectors such as myself buy these coins every year and have our sets.
I started out a classics guy but after looking at what created the current pricing structure in classics (mint policy inforced static designs) and realizing that this previous period and its influence on the collecting habits of the new collectors is finished it was time to move on.
We collectors of very rare modern coins with high precious metals content, low mintages and changing designs as our form of product differentiation are taking on less risk than the classic guys.
"A dissenting opinion gets flamed because it goes against the grain of the "group think". Many in this thread are hoping, no praying for success because there is a monetary reward behind it. They have money in play and this thread helps spread their propaganda far and wide."
We are the dissenting opinion. We see the future of coin collecting being influenced by design not just the old way of date.....AND by the way most of the older series issued after about 1850 are WAY to common as a type coin to hold onto anything like there current market values if the US goes type like everybody else.
So if there is anyone that does not want to look into the future its you FC. The more bad things happen to the serious modern sets the better.
I see a lot of those that collect classics pouring over mintage numbers and such, if you don't do that it is almost insanity not to. However I am not exactly thrilled at the future prospects with designs like this:
Also I am not sure you can compare the 1995 proof silver eagle to these coins as that was a historic low mintage below all the rest by a wide margin. That is like a plat coin today with total sales under 1000.
If the mint is still producing the American Eagle platinum coins in thirty years I think the prices won't be as high as if they changed the program and ended the series.
The best options are:
1] Rename the series to something else or end it. This makes all the current coins an ended series. Then they can appreciate.
2] Change the series to more popular designs. This will increase sales and make the current low mintage coins more valuable.
3] Eliminate too many platinum options. Just canceling the bullion versions would help. It makes financial sense for the mint to only sell the collector coins as they get the highest margins on these coins. The regular coins are a huge drag on the series.
Th worst options are:
1] Keep flooding the program with more total bullion coins period. The West Point mint must have been a nervous wreck this year keeping up with all the releases, it is a miracle they only messed up on one coin, the 2008 W UNC siver eagle with the old reverse. I would get confused too with the choices.
2] Keep the program as it is and come up with boring designs.
Really the worst case is these coins become similar to the mass products modern cents where every year they release one and the prices are all the same, low. The longer the series goes the harder it gets to collect for the larger coins due to expensive bullion.
That being said I own these coins and am toughing it out hoping for better times. I think the mint has saturated the market to the point that they will have to do something to end some of these series or at least reduce the total coins produced, and when that happens things should turn around. But you need the patience of turtle to last, and hopefully not more than a few years.
A dissenting opinion gets flamed because it goes against the grain
Nonsense. There have been plenty of dissenting opinions offered here, especially since the 2008s went back on sale. Everyone on this thread has seen that most of us have shared opinions that have evolved in the days since October 17. Those opinions have nothing to do with the collectibility of these coins-- they are certainly collectible, and many of us are primarily collectors. The opinions have been about whether the 2008s are likely to be profitable in the short run. When sales reopened, many of us thought this was a fantastic opportunity to get extremely low mintage coins for a bargain price. Those opinions have evolved, and the group's enthusiasm has waned as sales numbers started to exceed expectations. People might passionately argue about the merits of platinum coins, they might disagree about things, but no one with a reasoned opinion here gets flamed.
Your posts on platinum, however, rarely demonstrate a reasoned opinion. You aren't here to discuss anything, but merely to share your contempt for an area of the hobby you purport to have no interest in. You make a point of trying to be insulting by refering to these coins as rounds, widgets, etc. Despite differences of opinions that exist on this thread, most of us enjoy communicating with each other about these coins because we like them and are interested in them, even if we are sometimes frustrated by them. You, on the other hand, have no interest in these coins, and only like sharing what you dislike.
You don't like moderns. You don't like the American Eagles. We get it. Is there anything you actually enjoy collecting? With 10,000 posts, I hope so.
fc, I'm glad to have you join this thread. Reading your posts, I thought of this, from one of my old marketing texts:
Hints to Intending Advertisers (London, 1885)
The first time a man looks at an advertisement, he does not see it. The second time he does not notice it. The third time he is conscious of its existance. The fourth time he faintly remembers having seen it before. The fifth time he reads it. The sixth time he turns up his nose at it. The seventh time he reads it through and says, "Oh brother!" The eighth time he says, "Here's that confounded thing again!" The ninth time he wonders if it amounts to anything. The tenth time he thinks he will ask his neighbor if he has tried it. The eleventh time he wonders how the advertiser makes it pay. The twelfth time he thinks perhaps it may be worth something. The thirteenth time he thinks it must be a good thing. The fourteenth time he remembers that he has wanted such a thing for a long time. The fifteenth time he is tantalized because he cannot afford to buy it. The sixteenth time he thinks he will buy it some day. The seventeenth time he makes a memorandum about it. The eighteenth time he swears at his poverty. The nineteenth time he counts his money carefully. The twentieth time he sees it, he buys the article........
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
does a normal collector care about how many are issued and how that will affect the price of the coin in the short/long term? no. that is called a speculator.
you might want to rethink that. most of coin collecting is about mintages, surviving populations, condition scarcity. Does a normal collector care about how many are issued? Of course. As far as I know, mintage figures have always been part of the hobby.
Do collectors think about how those numbers will affect the price of the coin in the short/long term?
Well, for classics, they mostly don't need to... those numbers are typically well-established. But if someone discovered a barrel of uncirculated 1893-S Morgans in their basement, or walked into a coin shop with a roll of 1913 liberty nickels, do you think people wouldn't start talking about how that might impact the price?
Comments
at least you'll have another set of sales numbers a week more out. use the time you have (30 day refund) wisely.
do whats best for you. no one on the forum will debate that.
no one at this point knows where this will end up.
its entirely possible that there may be more than we expect in a "short run"
there can also be less.
we cant assume anything until more time passes and we know how many actually were available and sold
Does anybody collect these coins because they want to keep these coins?
These are sweet low mintage coins, which I enjoy having in my collection.....
There value is secondary to me, they go up in price great for the future.....
I think total sales will drop in the numbers next week too, probably dramatically. It won't prove though that this weeks numbers were "bad", only that they had a lot of returns perhaps. The sales will continue as long as it takes to sell off the remaining coins and the drop is sales will probably be recaptured again with new sales.
The key seems to be the total sales we already had, that is what they have to sell and what they will sell as they can keep selling until every last coin is gone or the 2009 coins become available. It is like a slow weekly dribble now and I am not expecting all options to go dark next month unless platinum prices rise to a level that these coins are just under spot.
It is too bad though that the 4 coin sets did not go into backorder so we had some hint of total coin numbers for those sets.
The numbers seem to say the mint did make more than the 2006 W UNC though and that is all that matters to some.
Anyhow...don't take me so seriously when I post...I like a little humor to break things up, and a little sarcasm as well. Also just so you know guys...
I am a Federal Employee and know all about the Mint and just about any other federal agency.
Also...just so you know...I am now holding over 100 UNC-W coins. The question is...do I return or not. I can afford to hold these coins well into old age. I also have many 2006 UNC-W's....most I got from the Mint that year. I agree with nycounsel and his posts. I am going to wait out the 30 day return period then make a WISE decision from there.
The key is long term investment/enjoyment...if you play it like that and stay away from the flipping game, then you can make a wiser decision on how much money to put into these coins. There is still 2009, 2010, etc...to look forward to. If you don't put all your money in one basket...one thing is for sure...you will sleep better at night.
If we see the next set of numbers with a severe correction (in the next week) in the 1/4 and 1/10 numbers, meaning a drop in 1/4's of something like 1000 or more pieces, we can be assured it is not from returns and was a foul up in reporting.
If, for some reason we see a drop in numbers two weeks or more out, we cant be sure if the numbers were bad, or if massive returns took place.
<< <i>I don't see what the problem is with people returning coins, that is the way things are set up. In the long run it is good that people only have what they are willing to keep as that reduces flipping supply in the secondary market.
The numbers seem to say the mint did make more than the 2006 W UNC though and that is all that matters to some.
How do the numbers say that? I've been buying these for 8 years, some years in quantity and have always watched the sales numbers throughout the entire offering period. This weeks numbers tell me NOTHING. They make no sense at all. If they are correct than this would be an absolute first as they have never followed this type of trend throughout the entire program of plats (proof and unc). On the other hand there have been several instances where the mint has put out sales numbers that were blatantly wrong.
That is why it is prudent to wait. Or it may be prudent for you to return right away. It all depends on your tolerance for risk and the strength of your stomach. Speculating in the Mint's platinum program is not for the weak.
For the 2008 $25 burnished plats: "Product will be available for shipping 11/14/2008".
Yesterday it was 11/13/2008 and the day before it was 11/12/2008.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Well, just Love coins, period.
-------------------------
More Coins!
Above the line: too many coins!
Below the line: More Coins!
lol
<< <i>
How do the numbers say that? I've been buying these for 8 years, some years in quantity and have always watched the sales numbers throughout the entire offering period. This weeks numbers tell me NOTHING. They make no sense at all. If they are correct than this would be an absolute first as they have never followed this type of trend throughout the entire program of plats (proof and unc). On the other hand there have been several instances where the mint has put out sales numbers that were blatantly wrong. >>
Well the numbers were just published and they are the same as posted so it tells us what the latest sales are. I don't think you can compare this rush of sales to normal years in the platinum program though. Most years are a sleeper.
The last rush was 2006 and those numbers went up and out quickly and were close except for the one ounce which was adjusted UP not down if I remember right, so the mint must be close on these is my guess. It is not like we are calculating the national deficit, it is just a few thousands coins after all.
I agree with you that it is up the each person to decide but it looks like many leveraged their purchases based on the chance that these broke under 2006. So far the sales numbers do show sales OVER 2006 for the 1/10 and 1/4 so that is what it is. Maybe like what was said some are waiting to return so next week the sales numbers hold up, then drop the week after. It is a rollercoaster is all but eventually the mint has months of time left to sell off all the remaining coins.
Like I said there is still a chance these coins are winners if they drop the 1/10 IMO as sales should increase for the remaining options. I just wish they had better designs for the followup series to bring interest to the set, as it is it will remain the sleeper coins they are, with many wondering what is happening.
Well, just Love coins, period.
Eric Jordan
4 coin set of coins with mintages that will almost certainly all end up below 5,000.
Even if the $25 is a relative dud, the $10 is fine, and the $100 and $50 look to have a reasonable chance at being below the 2006 levels.
Issue price of $2220, which is effectively a 1200/melt value.
Yes, we're below that now, but we were substantially above that before.
Although the purchase would not make sense as a bullion play, the downside is protected by that.
Anyway, as a collector, this is not a bad deal.
However, I can't disagree that anyone who purchased sets or $25s in bulk, hoping for a quick flip on ebay, should consider getting out.
The sets are still available, and with people running for the exit, I wouldn't expect those will go dark before the 30 day return window closes.
The $25s may or may not be available. We've seen the drifting "available for shipping" date before, and know that it could mean "unavailable", though it wouldn't be logical to assume that was the case, especially given the use of "unavailable" for the $10s.
There's no point trying to make sense of it; it's an exercise in futility to try to understand the Mint. The Mint does what it does.
The changing reverse platinum eagle set already represnts 95% of all proof and unc issues with design and denomiation based type mintages of less than 7,000 coins since 1915.
DID YOU GET THAT?
I am putting my very high quality sets together and I know I will be very proud to own them in 30 years if the Lord allows me to live that long. Guys these things will have their day but do you have the foresight and patience to see it through with moderation?
I was not alive to pick up the Pan Pac slugs and Matt Gold Indian type set I would like to have. That opportunit came and went prior to my lifetime. Collectors contemporary to the Pan Pacs & Matt Indians considered them pricey. This is our chance in our time to put together the MEGA set that will not be affordable one day.
I knew it would happen.
1991 uncirculated $25 Gold Eagle - unchanging reverse - mintage ~22K - $1100+
2008-W uncirculated $10 Platinum Eagle - changing reverse - mintage potentially <5K - $250 or less
Which is the better value? And in terms of design, which is the more interesting series to collect?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
DID YOU GET THAT?"
I've got the ONLY hoard out there of 5,000 units of Barry Manilow 8 track tapes from the early 1980's - so, where am I without DEMAND?
Wondercoin
<< <i>"The changing reverse platinum eagle set already represnts 95% of all proof and unc issues with design and denomiation based type mintages of less than 7,000 coins since 1915.
DID YOU GET THAT?"
I've got the ONLY hoard out there of 5,000 units of Barry Manilow 8 track tapes from the early 1980's - so, where am I without DEMAND?
Wondercoin >>
Ya should've hoarded a better artist, might be worth something.... Beatles 8-Tracks
I have not seen one of those in 20 years.
San Diego, CA
i see mention of a few winners among the hundreds of losers.. using
that as a possible justification of a possible rise in price in the short
term.
frankly, the bull run in PMs and the upswing in the coin market was,
in my opinion, the reason for the few winners. Without a raging PM
market and that always going up in value coin market... these rounds/coins
do not have a chance. Chance meaning these 100% and up profits
people were easily able to manage 3-4 years ago on new mint releases.
The market is being flooded and the peak has past us by. Now all that
is left is the hardcore folks having this sensation of possible success
that needs to be beaten out of them via poor results over the next
few years.
NN Web Site
Sorry I can't post the pic!
the Copa, Copa Cabana....
Wondercoin
Yeah but were they platinum or only gold?
FC negative on platinum coins? there's a surprise.
few years."
I can't quit you platinum.
Wondercoin
exactly. that's what makes us collectors.
Focus intense on platinum ‘W’ fractionals
October 30, 2008
By David C. Harper
Online comments indicate intense focus on the uncirculated “W” fractional platinum mintages. The totals are still small, but some of them went up a lot in percentage terms. The tenth ounce is off sale.
The market is being flooded and the peak has past us by. Now all that
is left is the hardcore folks having this sensation of possible success
that needs to be beaten out of them via poor results over the next
few years. >>
FC heaven help you when the classics are collected by type and not date and mint mark. The rest of the world is already very much there. We will be too at some point at the current rate. It may not be the modern guys crying! :-)
Wow. That implies that you actually read the posts (on something that does not interest you). You spend so much time bashing modern threads that it makes me wonder if you are a modern closet case fighting what's inside...Don't fight it, embrace it. You'll feel better in the morning!
for their collection? no. that is called a speculator.
does a normal collector care about how many are issued and
how that will affect the price of the coin in the short/long term?
no. that is called a speculator.
does a normal collector care about the design of the coin and
discusses it vocally and passionately? Yes. That is not the premise
of this thread. This thread is for speculators that revolves around
sales and pricing.
You have a group of people all with similair hopes and wishes for
these coins/rounds that keep propping up the discussion with the
same points over and over. Almost like if you say it enough times it
will come true.
A dissenting opinion gets flamed because it goes against the grain
of the "group think". Many in this thread are hoping, no praying for
success because there is a monetary reward behind it. They have
money in play and this thread helps spread their propaganda far
and wide.
The bigger fool theory is what this thread is about. Not collecting them
but being able to convince enough people that this is a winner and
flipping the extras you bought for a profit.
That is the state of the plat round/coins market right now. Not a grass
roots bloom of interest but trying to market these as a collectible that
has potential to make money down the road.
i guess that explains your presence.
<< <i>The bigger fool theory is what this thread is about.
i guess that explains your presence. >>
you still have time to abuse the mints return policy. do not get upset.
<< <i>
<< <i>The bigger fool theory is what this thread is about.
i guess that explains your presence. >>
you still have time to abuse the mints return policy. do not get upset. >>
How is it abusing?
It is their policy not ours. We would be fools not to make wise business choices within the framework that we are given.
Get a life! You weenie!
I started out a classics guy but after looking at what created the current pricing structure in classics (mint policy inforced static designs) and realizing that this previous period and its influence on the collecting habits of the new collectors is finished it was time to move on.
We collectors of very rare modern coins with high precious metals content, low mintages and changing designs as our form of product differentiation are taking on less risk than the classic guys.
"A dissenting opinion gets flamed because it goes against the grain
of the "group think". Many in this thread are hoping, no praying for
success because there is a monetary reward behind it. They have
money in play and this thread helps spread their propaganda far
and wide."
We are the dissenting opinion. We see the future of coin collecting being influenced by design not just the old way of date.....AND by the way most of the older series issued after about 1850 are WAY to common as a type coin to hold onto anything like there current market values if the US goes type like everybody else.
So if there is anyone that does not want to look into the future its you FC. The more bad things happen to the serious modern sets the better.
Eric Jordan
Also I am not sure you can compare the 1995 proof silver eagle to these coins as that was a historic low mintage below all the rest by a wide margin. That is like a plat coin today with total sales under 1000.
If the mint is still producing the American Eagle platinum coins in thirty years I think the prices won't be as high as if they changed the program and ended the series.
The best options are:
1] Rename the series to something else or end it. This makes all the current coins an ended series. Then they can appreciate.
2] Change the series to more popular designs. This will increase sales and make the current low mintage coins more valuable.
3] Eliminate too many platinum options. Just canceling the bullion versions would help. It makes financial sense for the mint to only sell the collector coins as they get the highest margins on these coins. The regular coins are a huge drag on the series.
Th worst options are:
1] Keep flooding the program with more total bullion coins period. The West Point mint must have been a nervous wreck this year keeping up with all the releases, it is a miracle they only messed up on one coin, the 2008 W UNC siver eagle with the old reverse. I would get confused too with the choices.
2] Keep the program as it is and come up with boring designs.
Really the worst case is these coins become similar to the mass products modern cents where every year they release one and the prices are all the same, low. The longer the series goes the harder it gets to collect for the larger coins due to expensive bullion.
That being said I own these coins and am toughing it out hoping for better times. I think the mint has saturated the market to the point that they will have to do something to end some of these series or at least reduce the total coins produced, and when that happens things should turn around. But you need the patience of turtle to last, and hopefully not more than a few years.
Nonsense. There have been plenty of dissenting opinions offered here, especially since the 2008s went back on sale. Everyone on this thread has seen that most of us have shared opinions that have evolved in the days since October 17. Those opinions have nothing to do with the collectibility of these coins-- they are certainly collectible, and many of us are primarily collectors. The opinions have been about whether the 2008s are likely to be profitable in the short run. When sales reopened, many of us thought this was a fantastic opportunity to get extremely low mintage coins for a bargain price. Those opinions have evolved, and the group's enthusiasm has waned as sales numbers started to exceed expectations. People might passionately argue about the merits of platinum coins, they might disagree about things, but no one with a reasoned opinion here gets flamed.
Your posts on platinum, however, rarely demonstrate a reasoned opinion. You aren't here to discuss anything, but merely to share your contempt for an area of the hobby you purport to have no interest in. You make a point of trying to be insulting by refering to these coins as rounds, widgets, etc. Despite differences of opinions that exist on this thread, most of us enjoy communicating with each other about these coins because we like them and are interested in them, even if we are sometimes frustrated by them. You, on the other hand, have no interest in these coins, and only like sharing what you dislike.
You don't like moderns. You don't like the American Eagles. We get it. Is there anything you actually enjoy collecting? With 10,000 posts, I hope so.
Hints to Intending Advertisers (London, 1885)
The first time a man looks at an advertisement, he does not see it.
The second time he does not notice it.
The third time he is conscious of its existance.
The fourth time he faintly remembers having seen it before.
The fifth time he reads it.
The sixth time he turns up his nose at it.
The seventh time he reads it through and says, "Oh brother!"
The eighth time he says, "Here's that confounded thing again!"
The ninth time he wonders if it amounts to anything.
The tenth time he thinks he will ask his neighbor if he has tried it.
The eleventh time he wonders how the advertiser makes it pay.
The twelfth time he thinks perhaps it may be worth something.
The thirteenth time he thinks it must be a good thing.
The fourteenth time he remembers that he has wanted such a thing for a long time.
The fifteenth time he is tantalized because he cannot afford to buy it.
The sixteenth time he thinks he will buy it some day.
The seventeenth time he makes a memorandum about it.
The eighteenth time he swears at his poverty.
The nineteenth time he counts his money carefully.
The twentieth time he sees it, he buys the article........
I knew it would happen.
no. that is called a speculator.
you might want to rethink that. most of coin collecting is about mintages, surviving populations, condition scarcity. Does a normal collector care about how many are issued?
Of course. As far as I know, mintage figures have always been part of the hobby.
Do collectors think about how those numbers will affect the price of the coin in the short/long term?
Well, for classics, they mostly don't need to... those numbers are typically well-established. But if someone discovered a barrel of uncirculated 1893-S Morgans in their basement, or walked into a coin shop with a roll of 1913 liberty nickels, do you think people wouldn't start talking about how that might impact the price?