<< <i><< BUT I'm wondering why it's so quiet lately?>> Well, with the highly anticipated release of the 5-Star Generals series it's no wonder to me that it's so quiet around here. In fact there's really been nothing noteworthy for the last couple of years with the exception of the '11-W and '12-W $50 AGE and the 25th Anniversary SAE set. What we really need is something exciting like the '09 UHR to kick start excitement back into modern collecting again. If they ever do a Buffalo release I'm all in but all we seem to be able to do is sit and watch what happens. It's kinda frustrating. >>
Yes, after the Generals, what else is there to look forward to? >>
Early numbers for the Generals look dismal.. or great, depending if you're the mint or a flipper.
Something like 2,350 $5 UNC SSBs sold opening week last year. The 5 Star General $5 Uncs just reported a one week opening total of 1,674. >>
Will be interesting to follow. I am surprised at how poorly the SSBs have done given their numbers.
No bid history, so it was probably a BIN. It's a pretty thin market for PR-70 FS Plats, but like Jim Cramer says, "theres always a bull market somewhere". Not that I'd believe him.
Coins101, I'm on the fence about the Generals and I suspect that I'm not the only one in that boat. Modern Gold Commems are such a disjointed series that if you decide to collect them, they could be somewhat interesting. OTOH they compete with so many other series now that it is easy to see why mintages have fallen with no corresponding increase in prices for those issues - there is too small of a dedicated following. People will buy the ones that interest them, but that's where it falls short. I'm included in that category - I spend my collecting money in other areas and there isn't enough to go around for every Mint or Congressional whim.
Still, the call of low mintage keys beckons................
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>No bid history, so it was probably a BIN. It's a pretty thin market for PR-70 FS Plats, but like Jim Cramer says, "theres always a bull market somewhere". Not that I'd believe him.
Coins101, I'm on the fence about the Generals and I suspect that I'm not the only one in that boat. Modern Gold Commems are such a disjointed series that if you decide to collect them, they could be somewhat interesting. OTOH they compete with so many other series now that it is easy to see why mintages have fallen with no corresponding increase in prices for those issues - there is too small of a dedicated following. People will buy the ones that interest them, but that's where it falls short. I'm included in that category - I spend my collecting money in other areas and there isn't enough to go around for every Mint or Congressional whim.
Still, the call of low mintage keys beckons................ >>
You expressed my thoughts on the 5 Stars exactly - and I'm sure the thoughts of many others.
I picked up a few MS70FS SSBs to my dismay. The 5 Stars may well come in lower. Who knows. I really thought that with the mintage of the SSB Uncs., esp. relative to the CVS, that they would be doing better.
I think there are three main reasons why excitement level and premiums are way down for low-mintage moderns, compared to their heyday in 2006-2009:
1. The economy. Coin collectors and investors have less disposable income to spend on new and recent issues, and more need to sell some of the coins they already own.
2. Higher gold and silver prices, compared to 5-7 years ago. This makes collecting gold and silver moderns more expensive and thus less affordable to new collectors, while making it more attractive for existing collectors to sell. Fewer modern collectors translates to lower premiums for the low-mintage keys - for example, the 1995-W Silver Eagle and 1997-W unc. Jackie Robinson are way down from their highs.
3. Multiple modern series competing for collector dollars. These include Silver Eagles (bullion, burnished, proof, reverse proof, "enhanced uncirculated", and special sets), Gold Eagles (ditto except for "enhanced uncirculated"), Platinum Eagles (same categories as gold), First Spouse (burnished and proof), Gold Buffaloes (uncirculated and proof plus 2008 fractionals), gold and silver commemoratives (uncirculated, proof and sets in various configurations), special issues like the 2009 UHR gold, 5-ounce silver America the Beautiful quarters (bullion and special finish), traditional proof and uncirculated sets and subsets, rolls and bags (ATB quarters including non-circulating "S" mint issues, Kennedy halves, presidential and Native American dollars), the list goes on and on. Few collectors have the time, space and resources to collect more than a small subset of these available moderns, and the result is low demand and low mintages for certain coins without an accompanying increase in price.
I don't see any of these factors changing anytime soon.
So what do you guys think, should I keep my small hoard of Army, MOH and SSB $5 uncs sealed in the mint shipping boxes or release them and throw them in the sdb? It doesn't look to me as though the $5 gold commem series is doing anything as far as appreciating and to tell you the truth I can't fit them into the safe unless I take them out of their boxes.
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
My attitude about any of the current Modern Gold issues is that they are all going to have a nice ride, regardless of the mintage. It's not like Congress has stopped spending or the Treasury has stopped issuing T-Bills and T-Bonds. If anything, it's all accelerating.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>My attitude about any of the current Modern Gold issues is that they are all going to have a nice ride, regardless of the mintage. It's not like Congress has stopped spending or the Treasury has stopped issuing T-Bills and T-Bonds. If anything, it's all accelerating. >>
If that's true, then the bullion gold issues are going to have an even nicer ride with less financial risk. Premiums on the Mint's new commems and proofs have risen to the point that there's not much profit in buying them, even if the mintages continue lower.
<< <i>So what do you guys think, should I keep my small hoard of Army, MOH and SSB $5 uncs sealed in the mint shipping boxes or release them and throw them in the sdb? It doesn't look to me as though the $5 gold commem series is doing anything as far as appreciating and to tell you the truth I can't fit them into the safe unless I take them out of their boxes. >>
Not much reason to keep them sealed unless they are first strike eligible. If so get them graded and then throw them in the SDB. Those that are not low mintage release them to the SDB.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
It's one thing to speculate on a nice-looking coin; another on a total dog like the generals. And duly noted that the premiums are huge. A very tough sell. OTOH, your MOH coin is a very nice looking coin. I'd keep it in its original box, or get it FSed up as someone suggested.
As coin sales slide so do the prices of higher mintage coins, at least that is how the theory usually works. It isn't surprising that those coins have not done well, you had hoarding of the coins and also we have declining sales. I see on Ebay flippers desperate to get out of coins they hoarded, and until they are finished I wouldn't expect any price appreciation.
One other problem with the commemoratives is the mint pre announces when the coins will go off sale so it isn't a surprise to anyone. But eventually the mintages with these coins will matter, and it may take 5 years or more to see that happen, at least that is my guess. That also depends on what future sales are of commemorative coins, if those decline it may not happen for much longer.
<< My attitude about any of the current Modern Gold issues is that they are all going to have a nice ride, regardless of the mintage. It's not like Congress has stopped spending or the Treasury has stopped issuing T-Bills and T-Bonds. If anything, it's all accelerating. >>
If that's true, then the bullion gold issues are going to have an even nicer ride with less financial risk. Premiums on the Mint's new commems and proofs have risen to the point that there's not much profit in buying them, even if the mintages continue lower.
I agree about the premiums, but if you already own the coins, that is water over the dam and there is no sense in trading them for bullion issues because the premium is already committed.
But eventually the mintages with these coins will matter, and it may take 5 years or more to see that happen, at least that is my guess. That also depends on what future sales are of commemorative coins, if those decline it may not happen for much longer.
I definitely agree with HalfStrike on this question. Mintages still do matter, but it will take the flippers time to disgorge their holdings before anything meaningful happens.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I am considering buying a 1983/1984 $10 Olympic gold coin. Can anyone here tell me how many versions there are of this coin, coa's issued with each coin and so on? I have been scouring ebay for a couple of weeks and it seems as though there are multiple versions of this coin. Which one is most desirable/lowest mintange? One seller had 2 coa's issued with a coin and in another (by the same seller) had only one. I am confused and couls use some help. Or just link me up to an informative site and I'll research it myself (which is what I would prefer to do anyway). Thanks for any help you can give.
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
ajman, there were 5 different flavors of the 1984 Olympic $10 golds issued. There were P, D, and S Proofs - all marketed individually, and there were "W" mintmarks in both Proof and Unc, most of which were sold in sets, I believe.
The scarcest ones - the "P" and "D" Proofs initially developed some scarcity premiums, but all of the premiums have backed off since then.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The "P" is scarcest, with the "D" right behind. Both are a bit over 30,000 mintage, which is considered common now but was a big deal back in the day. At one point the 1984-P commanded a price of about $1,000, with a bullion value of around $175.
Has anyone heard anything more about a possible 100 year Buffalo nickel set? I am trying to figure out how to invest my tax return and don't want to blow my whole wad if the Buff set is made.
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<< <i>Has anyone heard anything more about a possible 100 year Buffalo nickel set? I am trying to figure out how to invest my tax return and don't want to blow my whole wad if the Buff set is made. >>
Last fall, there was a mint survey asking for preferences for the 100 year buffalo set. So, I'd say there is a really good chance that we'll see one this year. I'd also venture that it'll be a great place to put your tax return!
What I expect to see is a silver dollar buff and a $50 reverse proof gold set...but I'd like to see a three coin set of 1/4 buffs in palladium, gold and platinum.
I really like the 1/4 ounce buffalo and wish the Mint would do one every year!
I have said this before but as painful as it is to see bullion drop 10-20-30% it may be just what it takes in the longer run to save the modern bullion based coin market.
Many collectors have simply been priced out of collecting gold and platinum based coins except in the smaller denominations.
It may take sustained and significant declines in bullion prices to bring collectors back and mintages up.
For instance would gold at $800/oz over several years be reflected in higher sales of various gold based coins such as the FS series or various $5 commemoratives or has the collector base been destroyed??
<< <i>I have said this before but as painful as it is to see bullion drop 10-20-30% it may be just what it takes in the longer run to save the modern bullion based coin market.
Many collectors have simply been priced out of collecting gold and platinum based coins except in the smaller denominations.
It may take sustained and significant declines in bullion prices to bring collectors back and mintages up.
For instance would gold at $800/oz over several years be reflected in higher sales of various gold based coins such as the FS series or various $5 commemoratives or has the collector base been destroyed?? >>
I think you are on the right track. We could very well see the lowest sales this year in the FS series but last years might actually take the crown depending on how things go.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ?
The coin will probably sell for over $2750. Maybe a thousand over that ? But at the mint it only cost $1960 or thereabouts just five months ago. WHY ?
I don't know what the MINT's intentions are, but my bid got shut out in a matter of hours... and the coin still has over five days on it. Go figure.
Why are my buyers from Australia, Malaysia, England and Canada , Germany or other places in the world ? The mints just produce what people collect. That's the long and short of it. We are global and the sky is the limit.
From what I can tell, there's a disconnect between the spot prices reported daily and what silver eagles, etc, are actually going for. I went to go to Monarch Precious Metals today to get a 10 ounce bar of silver but they were sold out.
That said, that burnished 2012 W Gold eagle is a key-date coin. Its got the lowest gold eagle mintage of any denomination and finish.
"I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity. >>
Exactly. The 2012 W Burnished AGE is hardly "A simple gold eagle. Nothing special." It's the low mintage key. Check out the PCGS MS70FS prices!
<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity. >>
Exactly. The 2012 W Burnished AGE is hardly "A simple gold eagle. Nothing special." It's the low mintage key. Check out the PCGS MS70FS prices! >>
I love hearing about how rare a particular coin is but I also wonder how great something like this is to own when it comes time to sell, when the averaage collector is priced out of the market. Kinda like the 2008-W $10 AGE or the 2008 Prosperity Set or the 2008-W $10 proof or unc. buffalos. I really wish the mint would come back with some classic designs that people are excited to collect modern issues again. I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance?
Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
Wish that I had not missed this $9K+ set which sold for a BIN of $5200! WOW! What that must be one happy buyer! I wonder how long the listing was up. The photo implies a raw set (for which $5200 is still a great deal) but the text notes that it's a PCGS 70 Set.
<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity. >>
Exactly. The 2012 W Burnished AGE is hardly "A simple gold eagle. Nothing special." It's the low mintage key. Check out the PCGS MS70FS prices! >>
I love hearing about how rare a particular coin is but I also wonder how great something like this is to own when it comes time to sell, when the averaage collector is priced out of the market. Kinda like the 2008-W $10 AGE or the 2008 Prosperity Set or the 2008-W $10 proof or unc. buffalos. I really wish the mint would come back with some classic designs that people are excited to collect modern issues again. I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance? >>
What's the point of arguing with the results of a simple Ebay search of completed listings? It is what it is. Look at what the bring. Clearly they sell. Why argue what's a simple fact? The fact is that they sell quickly for the prices stated. Something is worth what you can get for it.
I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance? >>
Not to say our Mint is all that great but they have come up with some winners that hold their value pretty good in the past years. I am sure the other Mints you mention have their dogs too.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance? >>
Not to say our Mint is all that great but they have come up with some winners that hold their value pretty good in the past years. I am sure the other Mints you mention have their dogs too. >>
Gone up to say the least: 2007 Mongolian Wolverine, 2011 Mongolian Owl (all four in that series for that matter), 2006 Perth Red Back Spider, RCM 2011 Tulip w/Ladybug - these and many others have done extremely well. Those who like to collect/speculate who don't follow some of the RCM and Perth issues are really missing out.
Time to bump my favorite thread with 2013 reverse proof Buffalo talk mentionned here and here
My thinking is would this increase demand for 2006 Gold Reverse Proof Eagle? In my mind they would make an awesome pair even in a double holder This would also expand a set of "Reverse Proofs" some people are collecting as well
<< <i>Time to bump my favorite thread with 2013 reverse proof Buffalo talk mentionned here and here
My thinking is would this increase demand for 2006 Gold Reverse Proof Eagle? In my mind they would make an awesome pair even in a double holder This would also expand a set of "Reverse Proofs" some people are collecting as well >>
Yes they would make an awesome pair, but how many collectors can afford them? I think the recent record low mintages across the board, from First Spouses to regular and silver proof sets, have been driven in part by the fact that many collectors (and others in this economy) are simply tapped out. Many numismatic "bargains" are destined to remain that way until the economy improves IMO.
<< <i>Wish that I had not missed this $9K+ set which sold for a BIN of $5200! WOW! What that must be one happy buyer! I wonder how long the listing was up. The photo implies a raw set (for which $5200 is still a great deal) but the text notes that it's a PCGS 70 Set.
<< <i>This one looks like a steal as well, same price point of $5200 albeit an NGC 70 set. NGC 4 coin proof 70 set
Seems one went a few days earlier on bids at $8K >>
That was clearly a hijacked account. The seller had no coin selling history - all video games and computer stuff. There has been a spate of hijacked accounts selling high value gold coin sets on Ebay since late last year. The MO is the same - offer a high value gold coin set BIN for a couple $K below market value and they sell quickly. The majority of the sellers have no coin selling history. Often the seller's account has been dormant for quite a while (I reported one yesterday where the seller's last activity was in 2007). Other sets targeted have been the 1995 Gold Eagle Anniversary set and the 2006 Gold Eagle Anniversary set. I have been searching for these daily and reporting them as I find them, many after the BIN has been consummated.
Buyer beware! Check the seller's other items and selling history. If there is no coin selling history, run!!! As always, if it looks to good to be true, it is...
It may well be the true in this case but I would disagree with "If there is no coin selling history, run!!!" statement. If you do some home work you can find some good deals among piles of $2 items some people are selling. I personally bought a few ungraded coins that graded MS70 just because they were unsearched and came from non-coin collecting public
<< <i>It may well be the true in this case but I would disagree with "If there is no coin selling history, run!!!" statement. If you do some home work you can find some good deals among piles of $2 items some people are selling. I personally bought a few ungraded coins that graded MS70 just because they were unsearched and came from non-coin collecting public >>
I was referring specifically to high value gold coin sets similar to those I mentioned in the post. I fully agree with your statement as per lower value items (I have done so myself), but sticking out your neck and sending $5200 to somebody who has never sold coins is risky at best, foolish at worst. Yes, you'll get your money back eventually, but it is tied up until you do...
There really has not been a significant price increase of the PCGS FS PF70 20th Anniversary Reverse Gold Proof since 2006. In fact it has dropped in price from $5k in 2006 to around $3200-$3400 now. The $3200 range has held steady now for over 5 years now. I just don't see this coin increasing in value in the near future despite its 10K mintage. I think the novelty has worn off with all the other reverse proofs being offered by the mint. I held on since 2006 and sold mine last month for financial reasons even though I liked the coin.
<< <i>There really has not been a significant price increase of the PCGS FS PF70 20th Anniversary Reverse Gold Proof since 2006. In fact it has dropped in price from $5k in 2006 to around $3200-$3400 now. The $3200 range has held steady now for over 5 years now. I just don't see this coin increasing in value in the near future despite its 10K mintage. I think the novelty has worn off with all the other reverse proofs being offered by the mint. I held on since 2006 and sold mine last month for financial reasons even though I liked the coin. >>
I keep saying this about the reverse proofs, burnished uncirculated, special mint mark proofs, enhanced uncirculated, etc. Lower mintages, but many different low mintages. (In other words an excess of lower mintage items). The novelty does wear off. Yes, for flippers the 2013 enhanced may work out. For the RP buffalo the mintage needs to stay under 20,000 to make it worthwhile. And long term who knows.
May be this will present true collectors the opportunity to pick some of these up at even better prices in the future.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i><< BUT I'm wondering why it's so quiet lately?>> Well, with the highly anticipated release of the 5-Star Generals series it's no wonder to me that it's so quiet around here. In fact there's really been nothing noteworthy for the last couple of years with the exception of the '11-W and '12-W $50 AGE and the 25th Anniversary SAE set. What we really need is something exciting like the '09 UHR to kick start excitement back into modern collecting again. If they ever do a Buffalo release I'm all in but all we seem to be able to do is sit and watch what happens. It's kinda frustrating. >>
Yes, after the Generals, what else is there to look forward to? >>
Early numbers for the Generals look dismal.. or great, depending if you're the mint or a flipper.
Something like 2,350 $5 UNC SSBs sold opening week last year.
The 5 Star General $5 Uncs just reported a one week opening total of 1,674. >>
Will be interesting to follow. I am surprised at how poorly the SSBs have done given their numbers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-W-Platinum-Eagle-50-PCGS-PR70-FS-1-2oz-RAREST-PROOF-POP-27-/271178118969?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3f2379b739&nma=true&si=RI4Ouc0NsYHGh%2BB3DG%2FKy3JeRnA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Coins101, I'm on the fence about the Generals and I suspect that I'm not the only one in that boat. Modern Gold Commems are such a disjointed series that if you decide to collect them, they could be somewhat interesting. OTOH they compete with so many other series now that it is easy to see why mintages have fallen with no corresponding increase in prices for those issues - there is too small of a dedicated following. People will buy the ones that interest them, but that's where it falls short. I'm included in that category - I spend my collecting money in other areas and there isn't enough to go around for every Mint or Congressional whim.
Still, the call of low mintage keys beckons................
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>that is crazy
It is the lowest mintage of all of the proof plats and it has a pop of 27. It was a BIN. Amazing.
WOW again!
(sorry, forgot how to do links)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-W-NGC-Early-Release-MS70-ER-Platinum-Burnished-Eagle-Set-1-85OZ-Key-Date-/390564191848?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item5aef709e68&nma=true&si=RI4Ouc0NsYHGh%2BB3DG%2FKy3JeRnA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
A non-ER set went for $5500.
<< <i>No bid history, so it was probably a BIN. It's a pretty thin market for PR-70 FS Plats, but like Jim Cramer says, "theres always a bull market somewhere". Not that I'd believe him.
Coins101, I'm on the fence about the Generals and I suspect that I'm not the only one in that boat. Modern Gold Commems are such a disjointed series that if you decide to collect them, they could be somewhat interesting. OTOH they compete with so many other series now that it is easy to see why mintages have fallen with no corresponding increase in prices for those issues - there is too small of a dedicated following. People will buy the ones that interest them, but that's where it falls short. I'm included in that category - I spend my collecting money in other areas and there isn't enough to go around for every Mint or Congressional whim.
Still, the call of low mintage keys beckons................ >>
You expressed my thoughts on the 5 Stars exactly - and I'm sure the thoughts of many others.
I picked up a few MS70FS SSBs to my dismay. The 5 Stars may well come in lower. Who knows. I really thought that with the mintage of the SSB Uncs., esp. relative to the CVS, that they would be doing better.
1. The economy. Coin collectors and investors have less disposable income to spend on new and recent issues, and more need to sell some of the coins they already own.
2. Higher gold and silver prices, compared to 5-7 years ago. This makes collecting gold and silver moderns more expensive and thus less affordable to new collectors, while making it more attractive for existing collectors to sell. Fewer modern collectors translates to lower premiums for the low-mintage keys - for example, the 1995-W Silver Eagle and 1997-W unc. Jackie Robinson are way down from their highs.
3. Multiple modern series competing for collector dollars. These include Silver Eagles (bullion, burnished, proof, reverse proof, "enhanced uncirculated", and special sets), Gold Eagles (ditto except for "enhanced uncirculated"), Platinum Eagles (same categories as gold), First Spouse (burnished and proof), Gold Buffaloes (uncirculated and proof plus 2008 fractionals), gold and silver commemoratives (uncirculated, proof and sets in various configurations), special issues like the 2009 UHR gold, 5-ounce silver America the Beautiful quarters (bullion and special finish), traditional proof and uncirculated sets and subsets, rolls and bags (ATB quarters including non-circulating "S" mint issues, Kennedy halves, presidential and Native American dollars), the list goes on and on. Few collectors have the time, space and resources to collect more than a small subset of these available moderns, and the result is low demand and low mintages for certain coins without an accompanying increase in price.
I don't see any of these factors changing anytime soon.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>My attitude about any of the current Modern Gold issues is that they are all going to have a nice ride, regardless of the mintage. It's not like Congress has stopped spending or the Treasury has stopped issuing T-Bills and T-Bonds. If anything, it's all accelerating. >>
If that's true, then the bullion gold issues are going to have an even nicer ride with less financial risk. Premiums on the Mint's new commems and proofs have risen to the point that there's not much profit in buying them, even if the mintages continue lower.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>So what do you guys think, should I keep my small hoard of Army, MOH and SSB $5 uncs sealed in the mint shipping boxes or release them and throw them in the sdb? It doesn't look to me as though the $5 gold commem series is doing anything as far as appreciating and to tell you the truth I can't fit them into the safe unless I take them out of their boxes. >>
Not much reason to keep them sealed unless they are first strike eligible. If so get them graded and then throw them in the SDB. Those that are not low mintage release them to the SDB.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
One other problem with the commemoratives is the mint pre announces when the coins will go off sale so it isn't a surprise to anyone. But eventually the mintages with these coins will matter, and it may take 5 years or more to see that happen, at least that is my guess. That also depends on what future sales are of commemorative coins, if those decline it may not happen for much longer.
If that's true, then the bullion gold issues are going to have an even nicer ride with less financial risk. Premiums on the Mint's new commems and proofs have risen to the point that there's not much profit in buying them, even if the mintages continue lower.
I agree about the premiums, but if you already own the coins, that is water over the dam and there is no sense in trading them for bullion issues because the premium is already committed.
But eventually the mintages with these coins will matter, and it may take 5 years or more to see that happen, at least that is my guess. That also depends on what future sales are of commemorative coins, if those decline it may not happen for much longer.
I definitely agree with HalfStrike on this question. Mintages still do matter, but it will take the flippers time to disgorge their holdings before anything meaningful happens.
I knew it would happen.
The scarcest ones - the "P" and "D" Proofs initially developed some scarcity premiums, but all of the premiums have backed off since then.
I knew it would happen.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
challenge: someone reply to a thread with more replies and bring it TTT
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Has anyone heard anything more about a possible 100 year Buffalo nickel set? I am trying to figure out how to invest my tax return and don't want to blow my whole wad if the Buff set is made. >>
Last fall, there was a mint survey asking for preferences for the 100 year buffalo set. So, I'd say there is a really good chance that we'll see one this year. I'd also venture that it'll be a great place to put your tax return!
What I expect to see is a silver dollar buff and a $50 reverse proof gold set...but I'd like to see a three coin set of 1/4 buffs in palladium, gold and platinum.
I really like the 1/4 ounce buffalo and wish the Mint would do one every year!
Many collectors have simply been priced out of collecting gold and platinum based coins except in the smaller denominations.
It may take sustained and significant declines in bullion prices to bring collectors back and mintages up.
For instance would gold at $800/oz over several years be reflected in higher sales of various gold based coins such as the FS series or various $5 commemoratives or has the collector base been destroyed??
<< <i>I have said this before but as painful as it is to see bullion drop 10-20-30% it may be just what it takes in the longer run to save the modern bullion based coin market.
Many collectors have simply been priced out of collecting gold and platinum based coins except in the smaller denominations.
It may take sustained and significant declines in bullion prices to bring collectors back and mintages up.
For instance would gold at $800/oz over several years be reflected in higher sales of various gold based coins such as the FS series or various $5 commemoratives or has the collector base been destroyed?? >>
I think you are on the right track. We could very well see the lowest sales this year in the FS series but last years might actually take the crown depending on how things go.
The coin will probably sell for over $2750. Maybe a thousand over that ?
I don't know what the MINT's intentions are, but my bid got shut out in a matter of hours... and the coin still has over five days on it. Go figure.
Why are my buyers from Australia, Malaysia, England and Canada , Germany or other places in the world ? The mints just produce what people collect. That's the long and short of it. We are global and the sky is the limit.
That said, that burnished 2012 W Gold eagle is a key-date coin. Its got the lowest gold eagle mintage of any denomination and finish.
<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
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<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity. >>
Exactly. The 2012 W Burnished AGE is hardly "A simple gold eagle. Nothing special." It's the low mintage key. Check out the PCGS MS70FS prices!
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<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity. >>
Exactly. The 2012 W Burnished AGE is hardly "A simple gold eagle. Nothing special." It's the low mintage key. Check out the PCGS MS70FS prices! >>
I love hearing about how rare a particular coin is but I also wonder how great something like this is to own when it comes time to sell, when the averaage collector is priced out of the market. Kinda like the 2008-W $10 AGE or the 2008 Prosperity Set or the 2008-W $10 proof or unc. buffalos. I really wish the mint would come back with some classic designs that people are excited to collect modern issues again. I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-W-Buffalo-Gold-4-coin-proof-set-PCGS-PR70-DCAM-/281091773200?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4172601310
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<< <i>I bid for gold on eBay last night. Just an American Eagle Gold coin. A burnished 2012 W. A simple gold eagle. Nothing special. Why is it going for over $2200 if gold is only worth $1500 ? >>
It's not a simple gold eagle. Special because it is the lowest mintage gold eagle ever. While not as unique, it's mintage makes it 16 times rarer than the 2009 ultra high relief eagle that sells for more. Looks like uniqueness trumps rarity. >>
Exactly. The 2012 W Burnished AGE is hardly "A simple gold eagle. Nothing special." It's the low mintage key. Check out the PCGS MS70FS prices! >>
I love hearing about how rare a particular coin is but I also wonder how great something like this is to own when it comes time to sell, when the averaage collector is priced out of the market. Kinda like the 2008-W $10 AGE or the 2008 Prosperity Set or the 2008-W $10 proof or unc. buffalos. I really wish the mint would come back with some classic designs that people are excited to collect modern issues again. I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance? >>
What's the point of arguing with the results of a simple Ebay search of completed listings? It is what it is. Look at what the bring. Clearly they sell. Why argue what's a simple fact? The fact is that they sell quickly for the prices stated. Something is worth what you can get for it.
Not to say our Mint is all that great but they have come up with some winners that hold their value pretty good in the past years. I am sure the other Mints you mention have their dogs too.
<< <i>I mean look at some of the other leading world mints like the RCM or the Perth Mint and you can see some designs of coins that have gone up and are holding values and are cool to collect. Why doesn't the U.S. Mint follow suit? Is because of the Congress has to approve of it so far in advance? >>
Not to say our Mint is all that great but they have come up with some winners that hold their value pretty good in the past years. I am sure the other Mints you mention have their dogs too. >>
Gone up to say the least: 2007 Mongolian Wolverine, 2011 Mongolian Owl (all four in that series for that matter), 2006 Perth Red Back Spider, RCM 2011 Tulip w/Ladybug - these and many others have done extremely well. Those who like to collect/speculate who don't follow some of the RCM and Perth issues are really missing out.
Some of the Mongolian, Perth and RCM issues have done far better than any U.S. issues in the same short time frame.
$960 proof
$940 unc
My thinking is would this increase demand for 2006 Gold Reverse Proof Eagle? In my mind they would make an awesome pair even in a double holder
<< <i>Time to bump my favorite thread with 2013 reverse proof Buffalo talk mentionned here and here
My thinking is would this increase demand for 2006 Gold Reverse Proof Eagle? In my mind they would make an awesome pair even in a double holder
Yes they would make an awesome pair, but how many collectors can afford them? I think the recent record low mintages across the board, from First Spouses to regular and silver proof sets, have been driven in part by the fact that many collectors (and others in this economy) are simply tapped out. Many numismatic "bargains" are destined to remain that way until the economy improves IMO.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Wish that I had not missed this $9K+ set which sold for a BIN of $5200! WOW! What that must be one happy buyer! I wonder how long the listing was up. The photo implies a raw set (for which $5200 is still a great deal) but the text notes that it's a PCGS 70 Set.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-W-Buffalo-Gold-4-coin-proof-set-PCGS-PR70-DCAM-/281091773200?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4172601310 >>
This one looks like a steal as well, same price point of $5200 albeit an NGC 70 set.
NGC 4 coin proof 70 set
Seems one went a few days earlier on bids at $8K
<< <i>This one looks like a steal as well, same price point of $5200 albeit an NGC 70 set. NGC 4 coin proof 70 set
Seems one went a few days earlier on bids at $8K >>
That was clearly a hijacked account. The seller had no coin selling history - all video games and computer stuff. There has been a spate of hijacked accounts selling high value gold coin sets on Ebay since late last year. The MO is the same - offer a high value gold coin set BIN for a couple $K below market value and they sell quickly. The majority of the sellers have no coin selling history. Often the seller's account has been dormant for quite a while (I reported one yesterday where the seller's last activity was in 2007). Other sets targeted have been the 1995 Gold Eagle Anniversary set and the 2006 Gold Eagle Anniversary set. I have been searching for these daily and reporting them as I find them, many after the BIN has been consummated.
Buyer beware! Check the seller's other items and selling history. If there is no coin selling history, run!!! As always, if it looks to good to be true, it is...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
It may well be the true in this case but I would disagree with "If there is no coin selling history, run!!!" statement. If you do some home work you can find some good deals among piles of $2 items some people are selling. I personally bought a few ungraded coins that graded MS70 just because they were unsearched and came from non-coin collecting public
<< <i>It may well be the true in this case but I would disagree with "If there is no coin selling history, run!!!" statement. If you do some home work you can find some good deals among piles of $2 items some people are selling. I personally bought a few ungraded coins that graded MS70 just because they were unsearched and came from non-coin collecting public >>
I was referring specifically to high value gold coin sets similar to those I mentioned in the post. I fully agree with your statement as per lower value items (I have done so myself), but sticking out your neck and sending $5200 to somebody who has never sold coins is risky at best, foolish at worst. Yes, you'll get your money back eventually, but it is tied up until you do...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Box of 20
<< <i>There really has not been a significant price increase of the PCGS FS PF70 20th Anniversary Reverse Gold Proof since 2006. In fact it has dropped in price from $5k in 2006 to around $3200-$3400 now. The $3200 range has held steady now for over 5 years now. I just don't see this coin increasing in value in the near future despite its 10K mintage. I think the novelty has worn off with all the other reverse proofs being offered by the mint. I held on since 2006 and sold mine last month for financial reasons even though I liked the coin. >>
I keep saying this about the reverse proofs, burnished uncirculated, special mint mark proofs, enhanced uncirculated, etc. Lower mintages, but many different low mintages. (In other words an excess of lower mintage items). The novelty does wear off. Yes, for flippers the 2013 enhanced may work out. For the RP buffalo the mintage needs to stay under 20,000 to make it worthwhile. And long term who knows.
May be this will present true collectors the opportunity to pick some of these up at even better prices in the future.
Tha amazing '08 W Plats
From March 28 (I know that I posted this before, but pretty cool back to back with the above)....
2008W $50 PCGS PR70FS