I continue to appreciate the info you put forth eric. A wealth of information here and in your book. I had come to the conclusion that the ASE W's were a must have on my own and bought a lot of them a few years ago. I am now supplmenting that with a strong position in spouses and W mint mark Gold. I come back and reread and absorb as much as I can. Thanks again.
<< <i>Incredible. I had not been following these on Ebay. I can't figure the Monroe and Adams. They are not the keys, what's up?? >>
The last Julia Tyler unc. ( key ) I saw sold for $3,100.00.... Not sure but I think the proof key my be Margaret taylor or Julia Tyler also. I have not seen any those sell recently!
<< <i>Those 2008-W Gold First Spouse Coins, just keep rising on E-bay! All graded PCGS 70 with first strike.
Jackson Liberty Proof---$ 2,500.78-------Original mint Cost $ 619.95
Elizabeth Monroe Unc.--$ 1,515.15------Original mint Cost $ 599.95
Louisa Adams unc.-------$ 2358.33-------Original mint Cost $ 599.95
>>
It seems that people are buying the backdated coins to fill out collections, and right now there is not a lot of supply of coins on the market. Most of the unc coins dated 2008 to 2010 have dried up, those that missed out are having to bid up prices to get them. I'm not selling my coins at these prices with the mintages under 4000 especially, that seems to be the magic number at this point except for Liberty's.
I just looked up the Louisa Adams unc in OGP, and the last sale was $1290 or so. That surprised me as I also don't see this as a key. I've been of the opinion that the sub-4,000 mintages have become meaningless for this series, but looks like I might be wrong. I would still be surprised if these have a collector base above 1-2,000, and am guessing speculators account for most of this action. Again, might be wrong!
I think some of the post-2007 non-key issues may have been widely distributed to casual purchasers, rather than hoarded by speculators, during their initial release from the Mint. Speculation in these issues was limited due to the high 2007 mintages, the rising price of gold, the tanking economy and relative lack of collector interest. This would help explain their limited availability and relatively high prices today.
<< <i>I just looked up the Louisa Adams unc in OGP, and the last sale was $1290 or so. That surprised me as I also don't see this as a key. I've been of the opinion that the sub-4,000 mintages have become meaningless for this series, but looks like I might be wrong. I would still be surprised if these have a collector base above 1-2,000, and am guessing speculators account for most of this action. Again, might be wrong! >>
The ones that I noted are all PCGS 70 First Strikes. We all know that 70`s command a premium, But more and more first strikes are selling for a nice premium when on an 70 graded Coin. In some cases near a $ 1,000.00 Premium on keys! I don`t understand it, but its happening consistently on not just first spouse coins but eagles and commemoratives also. This is no fad, first strike is hear to stay.
Good point on the distribution Overdate. It's really hard to pin this sort of thing down, but it makes sense.
As for First Strike, I find it all totally mystifying and will continue to do so whether it stays around or not. Very similar to the "colorized Lincolns" mentioned in another thread, although at least First Strike coins still have their innate value when the labels are gone.
Anyway, the development of this series is going to be fun to watch, even as an outsider.
<< <i>I just looked up the Louisa Adams unc in OGP, and the last sale was $1290 or so. That surprised me as I also don't see this as a key. I've been of the opinion that the sub-4,000 mintages have become meaningless for this series, but looks like I might be wrong. I would still be surprised if these have a collector base above 1-2,000, and am guessing speculators account for most of this action. Again, might be wrong! >>
The ones that I noted are all PCGS 70 First Strikes. We all know that 70`s command a premium, But more and more first strikes are selling for a nice premium when on an 70 graded Coin. In some cases near a $ 1,000.00 Premium on keys! I don`t understand it, but its happening consistently on not just first spouse coins but eagles and commemoratives also. This is no fad, first strike is hear to stay. >>
They said the same thing about tulips in the 17th century. How did that go?
Please try and keep your objectivity.
Take care...Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Absolutely amazing that this first strike/early strike business has been completely and utterly debunked as being without rational basis and yet people still pay for a label/slab. Incredible & I guess as they say:
"a fool and his money are soon parted"!
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I only buy or try to make First Strike because I like the labels and only if there is only a slight premium. I have plenty of the regular 70 labels too.
I am with Mike on the Tulip comment. Dont have to go back that far for a good example either. PCGS-70 coins brought BIG money 5-10 years ago and now look at them. "Buy the coin not the holder". If you can buy the coin in the holder and not pay much for the fancy lable then fine. If you have to pay big money for a lable I would suggest staying off of it.
"YOU WILL NEVER GET HURT IF YOU BUY THE GOOD STUFF CHEAP"
I'm not a First Strike collector, but they have two things going for them:
1) They are required for certain registry sets. 2) The labels look much better than the regular labels.
Most of the "moon money" premiums are for MS or Proof 70's with the First Strike label. MS or Proof 69's with the First Strike label usually carry little or no premium, and IMO are a better value.
I buy all my coins from the mint and get them graded myself. All I am saying is the $18.00 for first strike is well worth it! I never pay a premium for modern coins, if i miss the mint release i let it go.
APMEX prices on Proof Van Buren look unreasonably high
2008-W 1/2 oz Proof Gold Van Buren's Liberty PF-69 NGC UCAM --> $1,849.00 2008-W 1/2 oz Proof Gold Van Buren's Liberty (w/Box & CoA) --> $1,749.00
In the past APMEX was fairly close to the market pricing, did I miss anything?
A Van Buren raw MS was bidded up to $1700 a few days ago on ebay, so I think they are reasonable. For PCGS FS PF 70 and PCGS FS MS 70 expect to pay at least in the $2200-$2500 range.
What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966.
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
My guess the Medal of Honor...the Buffalo coin is considered a bullion piece and does not, for the most part, demand much of a premium over melt. (2008 is the exception)
The M.o.H. commem, has one of the best designs in recent memory, but will only appreciate, if by 12/31/2011 it turns out to be a "low mintage" gold commem. (less than 15k proofs or less than 8k unc.) That's my take.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
My guess the Medal of Honor...the Buffalo coin is considered a bullion piece and does not, for the most part, demand much of a premium over melt. (2008 is the exception)
The M.o.H. commem, has one of the best designs in recent memory, but will only appreciate, if by 12/31/2011 it turns out to be a "low mintage" gold commem. (less than 15k proofs or less than 8k unc.) That's my take. >>
I think that Barney was asking about the 2011 W $50 AGE Unc. as there is no MS 2011 W Buff.
I like AGE IF - and it's a HUGE if - it turns out to be very low mintage. There is potentially a lot of time for it to remain on sale.
<< <i>2) The labels look much better than the regular labels. >>
Totally agree here. All my FS's are in First Strikes...not that they have to be, but I like an American flag on each and I think as a set they look more consistent. Is is worth an extra premium? To me yes, others maybe not.
First Strike also means never messed with, so a 70 First Strike was first graded and never dipped. That may not mean much now but it will down the line at some point IMVHO.
If some of the classics were first graded does anyone think those coins would not command a premium today?
Classics in older holders are already commanding a premium, so those older holders are the closest thing in classics to first strike IMVVHO. Anyway time will tell if i am crazy, or those discounting the label are.
Barney i am watching those coins to, but won't buy till later this year. it is hard to say what the mintages will be at this point, I think the commemoratives have to be sold this year but the 1 ounce they could technically sell until inventory goes which means however many coins they struck.
I'm a believer in the "W" burnished AGEs, but I must tell you - the 1 ozers have been slow to develop premiums, and the premiums that the burnished "W" 1 ozers command are not nearly the same magnitude as the fractional ones. It does appear to me that the size of the collector base is a factor. That collector base for 1 ozers can conceivably grow as long as gold remains a viable alternative currency and as long as the Mint keeps making AGEs. If this were a poker hand, I'd call it a "push" and I'd probably ante' up to stay in the game.
I don't have a feel for the size of the collector base in gold commems, but sometimes a low mintage and a nice design can go a long ways.
I think your question is a good one, and your intuition may be correct on both coins - so you might just want to allocate some resources for both.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
As to the $50 2011 W AGEs, I bought two PCGS MS70FS. It's a lot to put out on a gamble that they'll stay low, however the only downside of waiting is that the FS may be much higher later in the year. I figured that I could get out most or all of what I put into them if they are a dud.
You'll probably get a different answer to your question for every poster here, but unlike in 2008, it's difficult to predict a winner these days. I personally don't think the 1-ounce W coins are going anywhere. The Spouses do seem to have some heat, but I'm not sure why. Given that, I go with strong design, i.e. the MoH. Oh, and I'd definitely pick up the 5-ounce "P" pucks. They also have an uncertain future, but it's a relatively safe gamble...
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
My guess the Medal of Honor...the Buffalo coin is considered a bullion piece and does not, for the most part, demand much of a premium over melt. (2008 is the exception)
The M.o.H. commem, has one of the best designs in recent memory, but will only appreciate, if by 12/31/2011 it turns out to be a "low mintage" gold commem. (less than 15k proofs or less than 8k unc.) That's my take. >>
I think that Barney was asking about the 2011 W $50 AGE Unc. as there is no MS 2011 W Buff.
I like AGE IF - and it's a HUGE if - it turns out to be very low mintage. There is potentially a lot of time for it to remain on sale. >>
True...I was referring to the PR, but it would not surprise me if the mint did come out with an MS this year.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Thanks guys for your insight. I did pick up a 2011 W PCGS MS70 gold Eagle first strike thinking that there can't be that many ms70 first strike considering all the ones graded by the other grading service. I should have pulled the trigger when MCM had them for 18something but instead picked one up on feebay for 2020. People are already trying to get 2700 for the MS70 first strike but I don't think there are any takers.
Buy the way I am not just in this for the money prospects I do appreciate collecting coins and have been "hooked" for a long time.
I remember about 11 years ago buying about 10 of the Goodacre dollars for $210 each. Sent in the best ones to be graded by PCGS, all came back MS68 but one and it was a MS69. This one I put on at that time was still E-Bay not Fee-Bay like it is today and got contacted by someone who said this item was all over a chat room he was involved in. I am guessing that it was this one. The coin ended up bringing about 3600. I was amazed. Well enough about that, I just want to thank every one for this great forum.
You got a good price on the 2011 W AGE. I don't think that MCM had PCGS MS70FS for that price. Did they?
I love Grit's quote: "The Spouses do seem to have some heat, but I'm not sure why." Perfectly stated. I don't get it either.
They had 2011 W AGE PCGS MS70 FS presale for 18something for a short while. I was thinking that this was very resonable considering you didn't have to send the coin in and hope for a ms70 to arrive. With cost of sending the coin in and paying for grading and first strike lable and shipping etc.
Comments
So is the key for the American Gold Eagle $50 Bullion non-w? Trying to see the potential for the 2011 AGE MS W.
2001 at 143,605
It would seem any of the 2006-2008Ws would be major keys, but I don't see see any price pressures on these.
Box of 20
<< <i>So which year is the key for the $50 Bullion non-w and what is the mintage? >>
The 2007 is the $50 AGE bullion key with a 140,016 mintage folllowed by the 2001 with a 143,605 mintage.
We all have fun together.
Eric
I ordered it on 5/24/11. I had given up hope on the order going through.
Jackson Liberty Proof---$ 2,500.78-------Original mint Cost $ 619.95
Elizabeth Monroe Unc.--$ 1,515.15------Original mint Cost $ 599.95
Louisa Adams unc.-------$ 2358.33-------Original mint Cost $ 599.95
The Adams Unc. in MS70 in available from MCM for just over $1500 right now.
<< <i>Incredible. I had not been following these on Ebay. I can't figure the Monroe and Adams. They are not the keys, what's up?? >>
The last Julia Tyler unc. ( key ) I saw sold for $3,100.00.... Not sure but I think the proof key my be Margaret taylor or Julia Tyler also. I have not seen any those sell recently!
<< <i>Those 2008-W Gold First Spouse Coins, just keep rising on E-bay! All graded PCGS 70 with first strike.
Jackson Liberty Proof---$ 2,500.78-------Original mint Cost $ 619.95
Elizabeth Monroe Unc.--$ 1,515.15------Original mint Cost $ 599.95
Louisa Adams unc.-------$ 2358.33-------Original mint Cost $ 599.95
It seems that people are buying the backdated coins to fill out collections, and right now there is not a lot of supply of coins on the market. Most of the unc coins dated 2008 to 2010 have dried up, those that missed out are having to bid up prices to get them. I'm not selling my coins at these prices with the mintages under 4000 especially, that seems to be the magic number at this point except for Liberty's.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I just looked up the Louisa Adams unc in OGP, and the last sale was $1290 or so. That surprised me as I also don't see this as a key. I've been of the opinion that the sub-4,000 mintages have become meaningless for this series, but looks like I might be wrong. I would still be surprised if these have a collector base above 1-2,000, and am guessing speculators account for most of this action. Again, might be wrong! >>
The ones that I noted are all PCGS 70 First Strikes. We all know that 70`s command a premium, But more and more first strikes are selling for a nice premium when on an 70 graded Coin. In some cases near a $ 1,000.00 Premium on keys! I don`t understand it, but its happening consistently on not just first spouse coins but eagles and commemoratives also. This is no fad, first strike is hear to stay.
Well, just Love coins, period.
As for First Strike, I find it all totally mystifying and will continue to do so whether it stays around or not. Very similar to the "colorized Lincolns" mentioned in another thread, although at least First Strike coins still have their innate value when the labels are gone.
Anyway, the development of this series is going to be fun to watch, even as an outsider.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just looked up the Louisa Adams unc in OGP, and the last sale was $1290 or so. That surprised me as I also don't see this as a key. I've been of the opinion that the sub-4,000 mintages have become meaningless for this series, but looks like I might be wrong. I would still be surprised if these have a collector base above 1-2,000, and am guessing speculators account for most of this action. Again, might be wrong! >>
The ones that I noted are all PCGS 70 First Strikes. We all know that 70`s command a premium, But more and more first strikes are selling for a nice premium when on an 70 graded Coin. In some cases near a $ 1,000.00 Premium on keys! I don`t understand it, but its happening consistently on not just first spouse coins but eagles and commemoratives also. This is no fad, first strike is hear to stay. >>
They said the same thing about tulips in the 17th century. How did that go?
Please try and keep your objectivity.
Take care...Mike
"a fool and his money are soon parted"!
Well, just Love coins, period.
Box of 20
<< <i>Okay, Mike, I'm missing the tulip reference. WHAT exactly did they say about them? I have one in my garden. Should I get rid of it?
I think you're OK, provided you didn't buy it in the early 1630s.
Some background
Some more background
I hope all the First Strike guys read this...
"YOU WILL NEVER GET HURT IF YOU BUY THE GOOD STUFF CHEAP"
1) They are required for certain registry sets.
2) The labels look much better than the regular labels.
Most of the "moon money" premiums are for MS or Proof 70's with the First Strike label. MS or Proof 69's with the First Strike label usually carry little or no premium, and IMO are a better value.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
2008-W 1/2 oz Proof Gold Van Buren's Liberty PF-69 NGC UCAM --> $1,849.00
2008-W 1/2 oz Proof Gold Van Buren's Liberty (w/Box & CoA) --> $1,749.00
In the past APMEX was fairly close to the market pricing, did I miss anything?
I knew it would happen.
2008-W 1/2 oz Proof Gold Van Buren's Liberty PF-69 NGC UCAM --> $1,849.00
2008-W 1/2 oz Proof Gold Van Buren's Liberty (w/Box & CoA) --> $1,749.00
In the past APMEX was fairly close to the market pricing, did I miss anything?
A Van Buren raw MS was bidded up to $1700 a few days ago on ebay, so I think they are reasonable. For PCGS FS PF 70 and PCGS FS MS 70 expect to pay at least in the $2200-$2500 range.
Box of 20
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
My guess the Medal of Honor...the Buffalo coin is considered a bullion piece and does not, for the most part, demand much of a premium over melt. (2008 is the exception)
The M.o.H. commem, has one of the best designs in recent memory, but will only appreciate, if by 12/31/2011 it turns out to be a "low mintage" gold commem. (less than 15k proofs or less than 8k unc.)
That's my take.
<< <i>The real definition of First Strike is "never been re-submitted". And that's about it. >>
That is the bottom line.
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
Welcome!!
<< <i>
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
My guess the Medal of Honor...the Buffalo coin is considered a bullion piece and does not, for the most part, demand much of a premium over melt. (2008 is the exception)
The M.o.H. commem, has one of the best designs in recent memory, but will only appreciate, if by 12/31/2011 it turns out to be a "low mintage" gold commem. (less than 15k proofs or less than 8k unc.)
That's my take. >>
I think that Barney was asking about the 2011 W $50 AGE Unc. as there is no MS 2011 W Buff.
I like AGE IF - and it's a HUGE if - it turns out to be very low mintage. There is potentially a lot of time for it to remain on sale.
<< <i>2) The labels look much better than the regular labels. >>
Totally agree here. All my FS's are in First Strikes...not that they have to be, but I like an American flag on each and I think as a set they look more consistent. Is is worth an extra premium? To me yes, others maybe not.
--app
If some of the classics were first graded does anyone think those coins would not command a premium today?
Classics in older holders are already commanding a premium, so those older holders are the closest thing in classics to first strike IMVVHO. Anyway time will tell if i am crazy, or those discounting the label are.
I'm a believer in the "W" burnished AGEs, but I must tell you - the 1 ozers have been slow to develop premiums, and the premiums that the burnished "W" 1 ozers command are not nearly the same magnitude as the fractional ones. It does appear to me that the size of the collector base is a factor. That collector base for 1 ozers can conceivably grow as long as gold remains a viable alternative currency and as long as the Mint keeps making AGEs. If this were a poker hand, I'd call it a "push" and I'd probably ante' up to stay in the game.
I don't have a feel for the size of the collector base in gold commems, but sometimes a low mintage and a nice design can go a long ways.
I think your question is a good one, and your intuition may be correct on both coins - so you might just want to allocate some resources for both.
I knew it would happen.
As to the $50 2011 W AGEs, I bought two PCGS MS70FS. It's a lot to put out on a gamble that they'll stay low, however the only downside of waiting is that the FS may be much higher later in the year. I figured that I could get out most or all of what I put into them if they are a dud.
They are great looking coins.
You'll probably get a different answer to your question for every poster here, but unlike in 2008, it's difficult to predict a winner these days. I personally don't think the 1-ounce W coins are going anywhere. The Spouses do seem to have some heat, but I'm not sure why. Given that, I go with strong design, i.e. the MoH. Oh, and I'd definitely pick up the 5-ounce "P" pucks. They also have an uncertain future, but it's a relatively safe gamble...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>What do you guys think would be a better value for future appreciation, a 2011 W PCGS MS70 one ounce gold coin (looks to be a very low mintage coin) or for about the same money 4 - $5 gold Medal of Honor coins also looks to be low mintage with a great design? By the way I have been watching this forum for quit some time and thought I would join in. I have been interested in coins since I was about 6 years old (1961) and a collector since about 1966. >>
My guess the Medal of Honor...the Buffalo coin is considered a bullion piece and does not, for the most part, demand much of a premium over melt. (2008 is the exception)
The M.o.H. commem, has one of the best designs in recent memory, but will only appreciate, if by 12/31/2011 it turns out to be a "low mintage" gold commem. (less than 15k proofs or less than 8k unc.)
That's my take. >>
I think that Barney was asking about the 2011 W $50 AGE Unc. as there is no MS 2011 W Buff.
I like AGE IF - and it's a HUGE if - it turns out to be very low mintage. There is potentially a lot of time for it to remain on sale. >>
True...I was referring to the PR, but it would not surprise me if the mint did come out with an MS this year.
Buy the way I am not just in this for the money prospects I do appreciate collecting coins and have been "hooked" for a long time.
I remember about 11 years ago buying about 10 of the Goodacre dollars for $210 each. Sent in the best ones to be graded by PCGS, all came back MS68 but one and it was a MS69. This one I put on at that time was still E-Bay not Fee-Bay like it is today and got contacted by someone who said this item was all over a chat room he was involved in. I am guessing that it was this one. The coin ended up bringing about 3600. I was amazed. Well enough about that, I just want to thank every one for this great forum.
I love Grit's quote: "The Spouses do seem to have some heat, but I'm not sure why." Perfectly stated. I don't get it either.
I love Grit's quote: "The Spouses do seem to have some heat, but I'm not sure why." Perfectly stated. I don't get it either.
They had 2011 W AGE PCGS MS70 FS presale for 18something for a short while. I was thinking that this was very resonable considering you didn't have to send the coin in and hope for a ms70 to arrive. With cost of sending the coin in and paying for grading and first strike lable and shipping etc.
<< <i>I really think there is a good chance for this one to come in with the lowest mintage of the burnished golds. I'll pick up a couple. >>
I hope that you're right.
Edited to add: I just checked FeeBay. I see that the PCGS MS70FS $50 2011 W AGEs keep going up. The latest sold for $2450. Sweeet.