Im in the same camp by saying these gold spouses have a similar "structure" as classic commems - but only as far as they run for a very long period of time, composed of 40+ issues, have some good designs and some bad designs.
But that's where the similarity ends.
Yes - you can say that "anything" looks good in gold, but, not even the nicest haag will compare to a Gettysburg, a Texas, a Oregon Trail, Antietam, San Diego, etc etc etc.....
That's the issue, none of the haag's have real cool designs or commemorate such important events that can rival some of the classic commems (excluding of course the Cinn Music/Booker T/etc.)
And I am a huge moderns fan.
I think the comparison to the American Arts Medallion series is probably more appropriate and will probably be right in "line" for 70-80% of the series once complete.
Now that many of the fractional bullion series that previously generated the low mintage individual coins have been discontinued, it is conceivable that the Gold Spouses could garner a larger following. An increasing gold price, plus a worsening economy could still drive mintages lower, but I suspect that we are near the bottom in mintages either this year or next.
The competition for the Gold Spouses will come from the remaining Modern bullion series, and will include the AGEs and ASEs, the 5 ozer National Puck Quarters.
The AGEs are likely to continue as an interesting series now that the keys are well-established and collectors can focus on obtaining back issues before they disappear. The discontinuance of the Gold Proofs might leave a sour taste in collectors' mouths, however. Still, the series exists and represents an impressive accumulation, even if it stopped today. These factors weigh in as direct competition against the Gold Spouses.
The ASEs should be able to recover from Mint mismanagement and omissions of several annual Proof issues. The longer the series continues, the more likely it is that it will become a premier collection, especially since preservation of the .999 Mint State Silver will be an issue over time. The ASEs don't represent direct competition for the Gold Spouses, but they are an alternative that is more easily pursued if budget is a consideration.
The 5 ozer National Pucks could become a fun series and a good way to accumulate silver as long as the premiums aren't ridiculously high. These might become a direct competition if the series is seen as interesting from a topical standpoint, which I believe that it is.
Gold Spouses - the low mintages are probably the best thing going for some of them. Design might help in a few cases. Taking on the whole series is still probably a lower priority for most bullion collectors, and that is true for me as well. Lower priority = lower demand. As we've noted before, demand is essential to price performance. The Gold Spouses are still a question mark, but I don't think that they will drop down to the level of the American Arts Medallions. Just my opinion.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I don't see any comparison with the American Arts Medals other than a slightly similar style. For one, the Spouses are associated with the current"circulating" Presidental dollar coins but more importantly the mintages are a tiny fraction of the medals. From what I can tell by current pricing it seems that gold commemoratives with mintages under 10,000 have a premium above melt due to scarcity and the Spouses seem to follow this pattern.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I don't see any great reason to crack unless you just hated ANACS. Does PCGS have a great premium over ANACS? >>
That is a great question Do you think this coin is overpriced? Should the holder add or deduct value? It is still a 2008w $10 ms plat. Is it the coin and not the holder? What if you include the OGP and COA? I am curious as to how this might play out down the road a while later. I picked one of these up last fall for half this price which explains my curiosity
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
I don't see much comparison to the classic silver commemoratives as a lot of those have multiple years with the same design, these spouse coins don't have that. Also one is silver, the other gold which is obvious.
Most sane collectors would indeed choose the PCGS 70 over the same grade in the ANACS 2008-W Plat Version; although, the ANACS auction has a "Best Offer" so....
<< <i>Now that many of the fractional bullion series that previously generated the low mintage individual coins have been discontinued, it is conceivable that the Gold Spouses could garner a larger following. An increasing gold price, plus a worsening economy could still drive mintages lower, but I suspect that we are near the bottom in mintages either this year or next.
The competition for the Gold Spouses will come from the remaining Modern bullion series, and will include the AGEs and ASEs, the 5 ozer National Puck Quarters.
The AGEs are likely to continue as an interesting series now that the keys are well-established and collectors can focus on obtaining back issues before they disappear. The discontinuance of the Gold Proofs might leave a sour taste in collectors' mouths, however. Still, the series exists and represents an impressive accumulation, even if it stopped today. These factors weigh in as direct competition against the Gold Spouses.
The ASEs should be able to recover from Mint mismanagement and omissions of several annual Proof issues. The longer the series continues, the more likely it is that it will become a premier collection, especially since preservation of the .999 Mint State Silver will be an issue over time. The ASEs don't represent direct competition for the Gold Spouses, but they are an alternative that is more easily pursued if budget is a consideration.
The 5 ozer National Pucks could become a fun series and a good way to accumulate silver as long as the premiums aren't ridiculously high. These might become a direct competition if the series is seen as interesting from a topical standpoint, which I believe that it is.
Gold Spouses - the low mintages are probably the best thing going for some of them. Design might help in a few cases. Taking on the whole series is still probably a lower priority for most bullion collectors, and that is true for me as well. Lower priority = lower demand. As we've noted before, demand is essential to price performance. The Gold Spouses are still a question mark, but I don't think that they will drop down to the level of the American Arts Medallions. Just my opinion. >>
I've been gradually moving from "legacy" coins to modern, mostly because of the bullion content. But inefficiently, with no direction or focus. I recently bought an excellent book to correct that problem.
Thanks, Eric.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
<< <i>Now that many of the fractional bullion series that previously generated the low mintage individual coins have been discontinued, it is conceivable that the Gold Spouses could garner a larger following. An increasing gold price, plus a worsening economy could still drive mintages lower, but I suspect that we are near the bottom in mintages either this year or next.
The competition for the Gold Spouses will come from the remaining Modern bullion series, and will include the AGEs and ASEs, the 5 ozer National Puck Quarters.
The AGEs are likely to continue as an interesting series now that the keys are well-established and collectors can focus on obtaining back issues before they disappear. The discontinuance of the Gold Proofs might leave a sour taste in collectors' mouths, however. Still, the series exists and represents an impressive accumulation, even if it stopped today. These factors weigh in as direct competition against the Gold Spouses.
The ASEs should be able to recover from Mint mismanagement and omissions of several annual Proof issues. The longer the series continues, the more likely it is that it will become a premier collection, especially since preservation of the .999 Mint State Silver will be an issue over time. The ASEs don't represent direct competition for the Gold Spouses, but they are an alternative that is more easily pursued if budget is a consideration.
The 5 ozer National Pucks could become a fun series and a good way to accumulate silver as long as the premiums aren't ridiculously high. These might become a direct competition if the series is seen as interesting from a topical standpoint, which I believe that it is.
Gold Spouses - the low mintages are probably the best thing going for some of them. Design might help in a few cases. Taking on the whole series is still probably a lower priority for most bullion collectors, and that is true for me as well. Lower priority = lower demand. As we've noted before, demand is essential to price performance. The Gold Spouses are still a question mark, but I don't think that they will drop down to the level of the American Arts Medallions. Just my opinion. >>
I really hope the Spouses remain overshadowed by competition. I would like to see mintages less than 2000 before it is over. If not now, at some point in the future they will get recognition for their low mintage should the current flurry die down.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Okay, here's a question for everyone. Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? Lincolns have a large collector base, but their key coin has a huge mintage. Will the number of $50 proof plat collectors be limited to about 4,000, or will a lot of people collect it without necessarily needing the key?
BTW, this question may or may not apply to spouses since I doubt even 2000 people will ever tackle the entire set. It sure might apply to the liberty subset, though.
<< <i>Okay, here's a question for everyone. Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? Lincolns have a large collector base, but their key coin has a huge mintage. Will the number of $50 proof plat collectors be limited to about 4,000, or will a lot of people collect it without necessarily needing the key?
BTW, this question may or may not apply to spouses since I doubt even 2000 people will ever tackle the entire set. It sure might apply to the liberty subset, though. >>
The average mintage of coins in a series should reflect the base of collectors at any given time for coins minted to demand with possibly a fudge factor for flippers. General circulated coins have mintaged determined by other factors than collector demand. I think the keys are made when the Mint takes an action that is unexpected or possibly when some unusual event occurs to throw off the usual patterns. The Mint is good at being unpredictable and it might be frustrating at times but ironically, that is what makes it interesting to me.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? >>
I think that lots of people collect a series without expecting to ever acquire the keys. The Barber dime series is an extreme example (mintage of 24 for the 1894-S), but it is also true to some extent for Barber and Standing Liberty quarters, Mercury dimes and even Lincoln cents.
<< <i>Okay, here's a question for everyone. Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? Lincolns have a large collector base, but their key coin has a huge mintage. Will the number of $50 proof plat collectors be limited to about 4,000, or will a lot of people collect it without necessarily needing the key?
BTW, this question may or may not apply to spouses since I doubt even 2000 people will ever tackle the entire set. It sure might apply to the liberty subset, though. >>
The average mintage of coins in a series should reflect the base of collectors at any given time for coins minted to demand with possibly a fudge factor for flippers. General circulated coins have mintaged determined by other factors than collector demand. I think the keys are made when the Mint takes an action that is unexpected or possibly when some unusual event occurs to throw off the usual patterns. The Mint is good at being unpredictable and it might be frustrating at times but ironically, that is what makes it interesting to me. >>
I guess I misunderstood your question. I think the collector base should not be limited by keys. Not everyone needs them and many may hope to get them some day but never do.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series?
I would surmise that some people start a collection with intentions of obtaining the keys "down the road". Some succeed and some do not. I think that the number of collectors in a given series might be influenced by the mintages of the key coins, but not necessarily limited to that number as a maximum. In fact, the existance of a strong key might serve to attract more upwardly mobile collectors who are guided more by their longterm goals and intentions than by the mintages per se'.
I think the keys are made when the Mint takes an action that is unexpected or possibly when some unusual event occurs to throw off the usual patterns. The Mint is good at being unpredictable and it might be frustrating at times but ironically, that is what makes it interesting to me.
I agree totally. I am of a mind that the Mint ought to be consistant and a coins series should also be logical and consistant. Therein lies the rub. I used to get frustrated with the Mint as I did in 1995 with the special "W" Proof Silver Eagle in the Anniversary Set, because the 1995-W's inclusion in the Set and not as an individual coin penalized loyal ASE buyers who had supported the program and it rewarded only those with "deep pockets".
Since about that time, I always try to guage the Mint's new issues in terms of the level of frustration that I might have had back then. If I imagine myself as I once was, in 1995 - and if I feel frustration building about the Mint's pricing or distribution policies or release schedules - I will commence to undertake a more careful analysis of the coin and the situation. At about that same time, I start organizing my finances and cash flow, "just in case". That is truly when things start to get interesting.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
It is not just "Mintage" but SURVIVING mintage and grade.
For Lincoln cents there has been significant decline in surviving mintage over the 100 years of the series.
To further the comparison even key lincoln cents can be found in virtually all grades while modern bullion based coins have and IMO will for our lifetimes have only 4 practical grades..............(Note all slabbed coins will have a variable premium if with OGP and COA)
1) PR/MS68 and below.................these will basically sell/trade for close to bullion content or melt.
2) MS/PR69 these will trade for some degree of premium over melt depending on rarity of coin. For example a common modern $5 gold commemorative coin will trade at or for a few dollars over melt while same grade Jackie Robinson will still bring a significant premium.
3) MS/PR raw coins in OGP. These typically trade on Ebay at a slight premium to MS/PR69 coins as the buyers always hope they may in fact be unscreened and could harbor a yet undiscovered MS/PR70. (Note that there is some movement from slabbed MS/PR68- 69 coins back into a "Raw" OGP state whenever the OGP premium is too high.)
4) MS/PR 70 coins. This is where the real premiums are seen. Premiums are related not just to reported mintage of coin but to a much more interesting fact and subect for much more discussion..........For a particular coin and year and at particular grading company what % of coins submitted are graded MS/PR 70????
Consider a few examples............The populations of 1995-W Proof ASEs........... The 2005 20th Anniversary MS ASEs..............The 1993 Proof AGEs. A review of these 3 examples reported MS/PR70 populations when compared to preceeding and following years raises many questions which I'll leave for another time.
Major disclaimer.........I have deliberately not included FS labels in these 4 general modern coin groupings as IMO the FS labels are not true Numismatic items but rather individual company marketing tools.
2008-W (Proof 4-Coin) Gold Buffalo Set - PCGS PR-70DCAM (FS) This is the American Gold Buffalo set. (1/10, 1/4, 1/2 & 1 oz Coins) First Strike and all graded Proof-70 by PCGS.Rar... More
Sell Price $9,999.00
I remember a little while ago on e-Bay this was going for $16,000
I've decided to sell a couple hundred of my extra eagles along with most the Chaos Proof sets coins I still have.
Square market base pricing. Just clip on my "For Sale" signature icon to see for yourself.
In fact, I can assure you that you will soon see bullion coins for sale that haven't been on the market for years. Bottom line? Times are tough for us all. That college fund I raided way back when is only a couple years from disclosure. Time for me to pay the Piper and loosen the load.
What I like about the Plats are they aren't heavy dealer involved. The coins you see are for the most part in the hands of collectors not speculators while many of the gold issues there are speculators buying 50 or 100 items. The cost of the coins cost some good money but really folks the 1/4 ouncers can be had for $450ish on most dates with the 04 costing the most at present. The 1/10 ounce most are around $200ish with the 04 being the most at 600 to 700 if your not after the PCGS 70. Most can afford them and they are overlooked at present. Nice coins nice designs which is more than I can say for any current series. With the current PM element their a real bargin with enough coins produced and about the right number of years produced that you can actually afford to build a set. As a set I'd take these over any AGE set that all look the same. I think the beauty will be discovered in these coins in the future and the sure are fun to look at, I LIKE MINE RAW IN THE REAL BOX as with all moderns. No 70 hunter here but I do have some since they really don't cost that much more with the more common coins. I'd love to pass this set to my grand kids to see where they are when their old/
<< <i>What I like about the Plats are they aren't heavy dealer involved. The coins you see are for the most part in the hands of collectors not speculators while many of the gold issues there are speculators buying 50 or 100 items. The cost of the coins cost some good money but really folks the 1/4 ouncers can be had for $450ish on most dates with the 04 costing the most at present. The 1/10 ounce most are around $200ish with the 04 being the most at 600 to 700 if your not after the PCGS 70. Most can afford them and they are overlooked at present. Nice coins nice designs which is more than I can say for any current series. With the current PM element their a real bargin with enough coins produced and about the right number of years produced that you can actually afford to build a set. As a set I'd take these over any AGE set that all look the same. I think the beauty will be discovered in these coins in the future and the sure are fun to look at, I LIKE MINE RAW IN THE REAL BOX as with all moderns. No 70 hunter here but I do have some since they really don't cost that much more with the more common coins. I'd love to pass this set to my grand kids to see where they are when their old/ >>
I'm with you on the OGP. I'm building the $50 set and love them in their original boxes. I'm not convinced these are ever going to take off, but suspect they will at some point.
Well, I finally bit the bullet, spent an a$$ load and bought the 2008 W $25 and $50 MS70 Plats today. I figured if I don't get them now, with Erics book out now, I may not be able to touch them later.
Great book by the way Eric. I bought three and gave two as gifts. One to my dad who is an old school silver guy (Morgan/Peace/Comms) and I'm trying to get him to branch out and buy modern gold and platinum. This book should do the trick!
And thanks to everyone who has made this thread the best on this website!!! I've honestly learned more about modern coins just from reading this entire thread than I could possibly ever imagine!!!
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come. >>
TOO HIGH >>
Do you NOT see the best offer???????????
They are ALWAYS too high. That's the point. I ain't no charity, although if you saw my intake versus charitable donations in the last few months you might disagree. I gotta get my soul right. Anti-griv is gone and I do not grieve.
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come. >>
Shouldn't that be on the BST and not spamming this thread? >>
Actually no. I'm NOT listing any sales, I'm simply highlighting a LINK to sales. Since you seem to be a newbie, I will explain to you that this is done all the time. I can collect 20 posts in the last 3 days as an illustration, but I prefer that you take my word for it and chill. Let's focus on the coins. That's what we are all here for, right? PCGS and coins.
<< <i>I've been gradually moving from "legacy" coins to modern, mostly because of the bullion content. But inefficiently, with no direction or focus. I recently bought an excellent book to correct that problem.
<< <i>Well, I finally bit the bullet, spent an a$$ load and bought the 2008 W $25 and $50 MS70 Plats today. I figured if I don't get them now, with Erics book out now, I may not be able to touch them later.
Great book by the way Eric. I bought three and gave two as gifts. One to my dad who is an old school silver guy (Morgan/Peace/Comms) and I'm trying to get him to branch out and buy modern gold and platinum. This book should do the trick!
And thanks to everyone who has made this thread the best on this website!!! I've honestly learned more about modern coins just from reading this entire thread than I could possibly ever imagine!!!
Cheers, Tim >>
Tim,
The 2008 w $25 and $50 plats are mighty cheap. Who knows when they will have their day but at these prices you are not sticking your neck out. Sorry the W platinum section was such a mess. KP deleted a whole section and put three proof plats in its place my mistake. If we sell the first 8000 copies they say that they will correct such things on the next run if their is one.
<< <i>Well, I finally bit the bullet, spent an a$$ load and bought the 2008 W $25 and $50 MS70 Plats today. I figured if I don't get them now, with Erics book out now, I may not be able to touch them later.
Great book by the way Eric. I bought three and gave two as gifts. One to my dad who is an old school silver guy (Morgan/Peace/Comms) and I'm trying to get him to branch out and buy modern gold and platinum. This book should do the trick!
And thanks to everyone who has made this thread the best on this website!!! I've honestly learned more about modern coins just from reading this entire thread than I could possibly ever imagine!!!
Cheers, Tim >>
Tim,
The 2008 w $25 and $50 plats are mighty cheap. Who knows when they will have their day but at these prices you are not sticking your neck out. Sorry the W platinum section was such a mess. KP deleted a whole section and put three proof plats in its place my mistake. If we sell the first 8000 copies they say that they will correct such things on the next run if their is one.
The 2008 w $25 and $50 plats are mighty cheap. Who knows when they will have their day but at these prices you are not sticking your neck out. Sorry the W platinum section was such a mess. KP deleted a whole section and put three proof plats in its place my mistake. If we sell the first 8000 copies they say that they will correct such things on the next run if their is one.
Eric >>
Eric, I was actually surprised there so much about the proofs and there wasn't more on the 2006-2008 W mint state changing reverses in the book. I was wondering if you could post the section that was deleted on this thread to see what we missed?
Thanks, Tim
I'm going to Amazon.com to write a raving review now
<< <i>Let the Julia Insanity continue to ascend....... >>
Just incredible!! Are you all holding or selling your Julias at this point? Seems like an insane bubble. I only have a couple, but might sell them now. A bit conflicted on what to do. What are you all doing?
I don't think it's over for a while -- until the next few mintages are revealed to see if these are the true "bottoms" of mintage.
Try finding a Julia retail -- they are very hard to locate, and those available are top $. Most dealers I have seen are sold out.
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Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Comments
But that's where the similarity ends.
Yes - you can say that "anything" looks good in gold, but, not even the nicest haag will compare to a Gettysburg, a Texas, a Oregon Trail, Antietam, San Diego, etc etc etc.....
That's the issue, none of the haag's have real cool designs or commemorate such important events that can rival some of the classic commems (excluding of course the Cinn Music/Booker T/etc.)
And I am a huge moderns fan.
I think the comparison to the American Arts Medallion series is probably more appropriate and will probably be right in "line" for 70-80% of the series once complete.
The competition for the Gold Spouses will come from the remaining Modern bullion series, and will include the AGEs and ASEs, the 5 ozer National Puck Quarters.
The AGEs are likely to continue as an interesting series now that the keys are well-established and collectors can focus on obtaining back issues before they disappear. The discontinuance of the Gold Proofs might leave a sour taste in collectors' mouths, however. Still, the series exists and represents an impressive accumulation, even if it stopped today. These factors weigh in as direct competition against the Gold Spouses.
The ASEs should be able to recover from Mint mismanagement and omissions of several annual Proof issues. The longer the series continues, the more likely it is that it will become a premier collection, especially since preservation of the .999 Mint State Silver will be an issue over time. The ASEs don't represent direct competition for the Gold Spouses, but they are an alternative that is more easily pursued if budget is a consideration.
The 5 ozer National Pucks could become a fun series and a good way to accumulate silver as long as the premiums aren't ridiculously high. These might become a direct competition if the series is seen as interesting from a topical standpoint, which I believe that it is.
Gold Spouses - the low mintages are probably the best thing going for some of them. Design might help in a few cases. Taking on the whole series is still probably a lower priority for most bullion collectors, and that is true for me as well. Lower priority = lower demand. As we've noted before, demand is essential to price performance. The Gold Spouses are still a question mark, but I don't think that they will drop down to the level of the American Arts Medallions. Just my opinion.
I knew it would happen.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350286443290&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:
<< <i>IF you were to purchase this coin would you leave it in the ANACS slab or crack it out? Why or why not?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350286443290&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX: >>
Because it might not grade because of altered surfaces......
IMHO when I see any Modern in an MS70 ANACS or NGC holder........I see a BIG 69
<< <i>IF you were to purchase this coin would you leave it in the ANACS slab or crack it out? Why or why not?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350286443290&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX: >>
I don't see any great reason to crack unless you just hated ANACS. Does PCGS have a great premium over ANACS?
I don't see any great reason to crack unless you just hated ANACS. Does PCGS have a great premium over ANACS? >>
That is a great question
maybe give it a try and hope for a lesser price!!
Miles
<< <i>...and theres a raw unc APE in OGP for about $100 less than the ANACS >>
Correction...there was a 2008 W $10 APE in OGP
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<< <i>
<< <i>...and theres a raw unc APE in OGP for about $100 less than the ANACS >>
Correction...there was a 2008 W $10 APE in OGP
Ten days ago 2008-W $10 burnished plats in OGP were going for around $300. Now it's $375. Maybe they're beginning to attract a little attention.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
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<< <i>Now that many of the fractional bullion series that previously generated the low mintage individual coins have been discontinued, it is conceivable that the Gold Spouses could garner a larger following. An increasing gold price, plus a worsening economy could still drive mintages lower, but I suspect that we are near the bottom in mintages either this year or next.
The competition for the Gold Spouses will come from the remaining Modern bullion series, and will include the AGEs and ASEs, the 5 ozer National Puck Quarters.
The AGEs are likely to continue as an interesting series now that the keys are well-established and collectors can focus on obtaining back issues before they disappear. The discontinuance of the Gold Proofs might leave a sour taste in collectors' mouths, however. Still, the series exists and represents an impressive accumulation, even if it stopped today. These factors weigh in as direct competition against the Gold Spouses.
The ASEs should be able to recover from Mint mismanagement and omissions of several annual Proof issues. The longer the series continues, the more likely it is that it will become a premier collection, especially since preservation of the .999 Mint State Silver will be an issue over time. The ASEs don't represent direct competition for the Gold Spouses, but they are an alternative that is more easily pursued if budget is a consideration.
The 5 ozer National Pucks could become a fun series and a good way to accumulate silver as long as the premiums aren't ridiculously high. These might become a direct competition if the series is seen as interesting from a topical standpoint, which I believe that it is.
Gold Spouses - the low mintages are probably the best thing going for some of them. Design might help in a few cases. Taking on the whole series is still probably a lower priority for most bullion collectors, and that is true for me as well. Lower priority = lower demand. As we've noted before, demand is essential to price performance. The Gold Spouses are still a question mark, but I don't think that they will drop down to the level of the American Arts Medallions. Just my opinion.
I agree more or less with all of this.
Thanks, Eric.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>Now that many of the fractional bullion series that previously generated the low mintage individual coins have been discontinued, it is conceivable that the Gold Spouses could garner a larger following. An increasing gold price, plus a worsening economy could still drive mintages lower, but I suspect that we are near the bottom in mintages either this year or next.
The competition for the Gold Spouses will come from the remaining Modern bullion series, and will include the AGEs and ASEs, the 5 ozer National Puck Quarters.
The AGEs are likely to continue as an interesting series now that the keys are well-established and collectors can focus on obtaining back issues before they disappear. The discontinuance of the Gold Proofs might leave a sour taste in collectors' mouths, however. Still, the series exists and represents an impressive accumulation, even if it stopped today. These factors weigh in as direct competition against the Gold Spouses.
The ASEs should be able to recover from Mint mismanagement and omissions of several annual Proof issues. The longer the series continues, the more likely it is that it will become a premier collection, especially since preservation of the .999 Mint State Silver will be an issue over time. The ASEs don't represent direct competition for the Gold Spouses, but they are an alternative that is more easily pursued if budget is a consideration.
The 5 ozer National Pucks could become a fun series and a good way to accumulate silver as long as the premiums aren't ridiculously high. These might become a direct competition if the series is seen as interesting from a topical standpoint, which I believe that it is.
Gold Spouses - the low mintages are probably the best thing going for some of them. Design might help in a few cases. Taking on the whole series is still probably a lower priority for most bullion collectors, and that is true for me as well. Lower priority = lower demand. As we've noted before, demand is essential to price performance. The Gold Spouses are still a question mark, but I don't think that they will drop down to the level of the American Arts Medallions. Just my opinion.
I really hope the Spouses remain overshadowed by competition. I would like to see mintages less than 2000 before it is over. If not now, at some point in the future they will get recognition for their low mintage should the current flurry die down.
BTW, this question may or may not apply to spouses since I doubt even 2000 people will ever tackle the entire set. It sure might apply to the liberty subset, though.
<< <i>Okay, here's a question for everyone. Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? Lincolns have a large collector base, but their key coin has a huge mintage. Will the number of $50 proof plat collectors be limited to about 4,000, or will a lot of people collect it without necessarily needing the key?
BTW, this question may or may not apply to spouses since I doubt even 2000 people will ever tackle the entire set. It sure might apply to the liberty subset, though. >>
The average mintage of coins in a series should reflect the base of collectors at any given time for coins minted to demand with possibly a fudge factor for flippers. General circulated coins have mintaged determined by other factors than collector demand. I think the keys are made when the Mint takes an action that is unexpected or possibly when some unusual event occurs to throw off the usual patterns. The Mint is good at being unpredictable and it might be frustrating at times but ironically, that is what makes it interesting to me.
<< <i>Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? >>
I think that lots of people collect a series without expecting to ever acquire the keys. The Barber dime series is an extreme example (mintage of 24 for the 1894-S), but it is also true to some extent for Barber and Standing Liberty quarters, Mercury dimes and even Lincoln cents.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>
<< <i>Okay, here's a question for everyone. Does the mintage of the key coin in a series determine, at least to some extent, the number of collectors of that series? Lincolns have a large collector base, but their key coin has a huge mintage. Will the number of $50 proof plat collectors be limited to about 4,000, or will a lot of people collect it without necessarily needing the key?
BTW, this question may or may not apply to spouses since I doubt even 2000 people will ever tackle the entire set. It sure might apply to the liberty subset, though. >>
The average mintage of coins in a series should reflect the base of collectors at any given time for coins minted to demand with possibly a fudge factor for flippers. General circulated coins have mintaged determined by other factors than collector demand. I think the keys are made when the Mint takes an action that is unexpected or possibly when some unusual event occurs to throw off the usual patterns. The Mint is good at being unpredictable and it might be frustrating at times but ironically, that is what makes it interesting to me. >>
I guess I misunderstood your question. I think the collector base should not be limited by keys. Not everyone needs them and many may hope to get them some day but never do.
I would surmise that some people start a collection with intentions of obtaining the keys "down the road". Some succeed and some do not. I think that the number of collectors in a given series might be influenced by the mintages of the key coins, but not necessarily limited to that number as a maximum. In fact, the existance of a strong key might serve to attract more upwardly mobile collectors who are guided more by their longterm goals and intentions than by the mintages per se'.
I think the keys are made when the Mint takes an action that is unexpected or possibly when some unusual event occurs to throw off the usual patterns. The Mint is good at being unpredictable and it might be frustrating at times but ironically, that is what makes it interesting to me.
I agree totally. I am of a mind that the Mint ought to be consistant and a coins series should also be logical and consistant. Therein lies the rub. I used to get frustrated with the Mint as I did in 1995 with the special "W" Proof Silver Eagle in the Anniversary Set, because the 1995-W's inclusion in the Set and not as an individual coin penalized loyal ASE buyers who had supported the program and it rewarded only those with "deep pockets".
Since about that time, I always try to guage the Mint's new issues in terms of the level of frustration that I might have had back then. If I imagine myself as I once was, in 1995 - and if I feel frustration building about the Mint's pricing or distribution policies or release schedules - I will commence to undertake a more careful analysis of the coin and the situation. At about that same time, I start organizing my finances and cash flow, "just in case". That is truly when things start to get interesting.
I knew it would happen.
For Lincoln cents there has been significant decline in surviving mintage over the 100 years of the series.
To further the comparison even key lincoln cents can be found in virtually all grades while modern bullion based coins have and IMO will for our lifetimes have only 4 practical grades..............(Note all slabbed coins will have a variable premium if with OGP and COA)
1) PR/MS68 and below.................these will basically sell/trade for close to bullion content or melt.
2) MS/PR69 these will trade for some degree of premium over melt depending on rarity of coin. For example a common modern $5 gold
commemorative coin will trade at or for a few dollars over melt while same grade Jackie Robinson will still bring a significant premium.
3) MS/PR raw coins in OGP. These typically trade on Ebay at a slight premium to MS/PR69 coins as the buyers always hope they
may in fact be unscreened and could harbor a yet undiscovered MS/PR70. (Note that there is some movement from slabbed MS/PR68-
69 coins back into a "Raw" OGP state whenever the OGP premium is too high.)
4) MS/PR 70 coins. This is where the real premiums are seen. Premiums are related not just to reported mintage of coin but to a much
more interesting fact and subect for much more discussion..........For a particular coin and year and at particular grading company what
% of coins submitted are graded MS/PR 70????
Consider a few examples............The populations of 1995-W Proof ASEs........... The 2005 20th Anniversary MS ASEs..............The 1993
Proof AGEs. A review of these 3 examples reported MS/PR70 populations when compared to preceeding and following years raises
many questions which I'll leave for another time.
Major disclaimer.........I have deliberately not included FS labels in these 4 general modern coin groupings as IMO the FS labels are not true Numismatic items but rather individual company marketing tools.
I will happily pay triple melt for this one (even without the First Strike label):
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I don't have previous data point. Is this price lowered than the last few months?
2008-W (Proof 4-Coin) Gold Buffalo Set - PCGS PR-70DCAM (FS)
This is the American Gold Buffalo set.
(1/10, 1/4, 1/2 & 1 oz Coins) First Strike and all graded Proof-70 by PCGS.Rar... More
Sell Price $9,999.00
I remember a little while ago on e-Bay this was going for $16,000
Square market base pricing. Just clip on my "For Sale" signature icon to see for yourself.
In fact, I can assure you that you will soon see bullion coins for sale that haven't been on the market for years. Bottom line? Times are tough for us all. That college fund I raided way back when is only a couple years from disclosure. Time for me to pay the Piper and loosen the load.
<< <i>What I like about the Plats are they aren't heavy dealer involved. The coins you see are for the most part in the hands of collectors not speculators while many of the gold issues there are speculators buying 50 or 100 items. The cost of the coins cost some good money but really folks the 1/4 ouncers can be had for $450ish on most dates with the 04 costing the most at present. The 1/10 ounce most are around $200ish with the 04 being the most at 600 to 700 if your not after the PCGS 70. Most can afford them and they are overlooked at present. Nice coins nice designs which is more than I can say for any current series. With the current PM element their a real bargin with enough coins produced and about the right number of years produced that you can actually afford to build a set. As a set I'd take these over any AGE set that all look the same. I think the beauty will be discovered in these coins in the future and the sure are fun to look at, I LIKE MINE RAW IN THE REAL BOX as with all moderns. No 70 hunter here but I do have some since they really don't cost that much more with the more common coins. I'd love to pass this set to my grand kids to see where they are when their old/ >>
I'm with you on the OGP. I'm building the $50 set and love them in their original boxes. I'm not convinced these are ever going to take off, but suspect they will at some point.
Great book by the way Eric. I bought three and gave two as gifts. One to my dad who is an old school silver guy (Morgan/Peace/Comms) and I'm trying to get him to branch out and buy modern gold and platinum. This book should do the trick!
And thanks to everyone who has made this thread the best on this website!!! I've honestly learned more about modern coins just from reading this entire thread than I could possibly ever imagine!!!
Cheers, Tim
Overdate, BestMR, Weather11AM, TDEC1000, Carew4me, BigMarty58, Coinsarefun, Golfer72, UnknownComic, DMarks, JFoot13, ElKevvo, Truthteller, Duxbutt, TwoSides2aCoin, PerryHall, mhammerman, Papabear, Wingsrule, WTCG, MillerJW, Ciccio, zrlevin, dantheman984, tee135, jdimmick, gsa1fan, jmski52, SUMORADA, guitarwes, bstat1020, pitboss, meltdown, Schmitz7, 30AnvZ28, pragmaticgoat, wondercoin & MkMan123
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come.
TOO HIGH
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come.
Shouldn't that be on the BST and not spamming this thread?
<< <i>
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come.
Shouldn't that be on the BST and not spamming this thread?
<< <i>
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come.
TOO HIGH >>
Do you NOT see the best offer???????????
They are ALWAYS too high. That's the point. I ain't no charity, although if you saw my intake versus charitable donations in the last few months you might disagree. I gotta get my soul right. Anti-griv is gone and I do not grieve.
<< <i>
<< <i>Click on my For Sale sign below for my current PCGS gold, silver and platinum eagles for sale right now with many more to come.
Shouldn't that be on the BST and not spamming this thread?
Actually no. I'm NOT listing any sales, I'm simply highlighting a LINK to sales. Since you seem to be a newbie, I will explain to you that this is done all the time. I can collect 20 posts in the last 3 days as an illustration, but I prefer that you take my word for it and chill. Let's focus on the coins. That's what we are all here for, right? PCGS and coins.
<< <i>I've been gradually moving from "legacy" coins to modern, mostly because of the bullion content. But inefficiently, with no direction or focus. I recently bought an excellent book to correct that problem.
Thanks, Eric.
Hope it helps cgc,
Eric
<< <i>Well, I finally bit the bullet, spent an a$$ load and bought the 2008 W $25 and $50 MS70 Plats today. I figured if I don't get them now, with Erics book out now, I may not be able to touch them later.
Great book by the way Eric. I bought three and gave two as gifts. One to my dad who is an old school silver guy (Morgan/Peace/Comms) and I'm trying to get him to branch out and buy modern gold and platinum. This book should do the trick!
And thanks to everyone who has made this thread the best on this website!!! I've honestly learned more about modern coins just from reading this entire thread than I could possibly ever imagine!!!
Cheers, Tim >>
Tim,
The 2008 w $25 and $50 plats are mighty cheap. Who knows when they will have their day but at these prices you are not sticking your neck out. Sorry the W platinum section was such a mess. KP deleted a whole section and put three proof plats in its place my mistake. If we sell the first 8000 copies they say that they will correct such things on the next run if their is one.
Eric
PS:
Guys go write your reviews on Amazon!
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, I finally bit the bullet, spent an a$$ load and bought the 2008 W $25 and $50 MS70 Plats today. I figured if I don't get them now, with Erics book out now, I may not be able to touch them later.
Great book by the way Eric. I bought three and gave two as gifts. One to my dad who is an old school silver guy (Morgan/Peace/Comms) and I'm trying to get him to branch out and buy modern gold and platinum. This book should do the trick!
And thanks to everyone who has made this thread the best on this website!!! I've honestly learned more about modern coins just from reading this entire thread than I could possibly ever imagine!!!
Cheers, Tim >>
Tim,
The 2008 w $25 and $50 plats are mighty cheap. Who knows when they will have their day but at these prices you are not sticking your neck out. Sorry the W platinum section was such a mess. KP deleted a whole section and put three proof plats in its place my mistake. If we sell the first 8000 copies they say that they will correct such things on the next run if their is one.
Eric
PS:
Guys go write your reviews on Amazon! >>
Cheap? Do I need to raise my prices?
<< <i>It smells like SPAM in here. >>
He who smelt it delt it.
<< <i>Tim,
The 2008 w $25 and $50 plats are mighty cheap. Who knows when they will have their day but at these prices you are not sticking your neck out. Sorry the W platinum section was such a mess. KP deleted a whole section and put three proof plats in its place my mistake. If we sell the first 8000 copies they say that they will correct such things on the next run if their is one.
Eric >>
Eric,
I was actually surprised there so much about the proofs and there wasn't more on the 2006-2008 W mint state changing reverses in the book. I was wondering if you could post the section that was deleted on this thread to see what we missed?
Thanks, Tim
I'm going to Amazon.com to write a raving review now
Overdate, BestMR, Weather11AM, TDEC1000, Carew4me, BigMarty58, Coinsarefun, Golfer72, UnknownComic, DMarks, JFoot13, ElKevvo, Truthteller, Duxbutt, TwoSides2aCoin, PerryHall, mhammerman, Papabear, Wingsrule, WTCG, MillerJW, Ciccio, zrlevin, dantheman984, tee135, jdimmick, gsa1fan, jmski52, SUMORADA, guitarwes, bstat1020, pitboss, meltdown, Schmitz7, 30AnvZ28, pragmaticgoat, wondercoin & MkMan123
<< <i>Let the Julia Insanity continue to ascend....... >>
Just incredible!! Are you all holding or selling your Julias at this point? Seems like an insane bubble. I only have a couple, but might sell them now. A bit conflicted on what to do. What are you all doing?
Try finding a Julia retail -- they are very hard to locate, and those available are top $. Most dealers I have seen are sold out.
See this posting.
Maybe there's life to these in 2010 yet!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
what are the chances they up the mintage limit?
I'm thinking 100%.