Eric, I've received my copies of your book and it looks like an interesting read. I'm going to read it carefully and savor every page. Thanks for doing it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i> I am wondering why the $25 gold unc-w eagles are so hot. Yes, they are fairly low mintage, but so are a lot of other things. Anyone have any insights to this? Is it just because the entire series is more widely collected than many others?
Grits, I've noticed this and I've been wondering about this too. I can offer this thought - when the AGE Series first started, I was hot for the whole idea but I didn't really have enough steady money to collect the whole series. Even back then I felt that the lowest mintage coins would eventually rule (Lesson No.1), so I bought the 1/4 ozers and 1/2 ozers on that basis. 1 oz. gold coins were simply too expensive for my budget at the time, and it turns out that the 1/4 oz. and 1/2 oz. coins are almost always lower mintages than the 1 oz. coins anyway.
I bought (5) of each in 1988 and 1989, but by 1990 I had lost steam and the money to invest just wasn't there. In the ensuing years, the lowest mintage issues were produced in 1990 and 1991 - and their performance has been good if you had had the foresight to buy into them. Lesson No.2 - buy when it hurts, because when the market is hurting in general, that is when the overall sales numbers will always be less than when the economy is booming.
I also think that the market for AGEs is partway into the maturation process, where actual collectors are reducing the number of coins that are available - one coin at a time, and that the dealers in Moderns are seeing this firsthand. >>
I've collected these along the same lines, jmski, and was lucky enough to get the '90 and '91 before they went up. I have not, however, filled in most of the other dates--until the "w"s started showing up. If the collector base is that strong, I would think that the "w"s will push up the prices of the '90 and '91. I agree with Eric that if ALL of these coins are taken as a series, then the '91 probably should still reign supreme because of the poor condition of so many of the coins (my '91 graded only a 67, and my '90s both 68). HOWEVER, I'm not sure that's happening (maybe Wondercoin has a better read on this), and that's making me think that speculation is driving the "w"s more than collector demand.
Gritsman - Remember... it is generally all about DEMAND. Which is why I have some US pattern coins in my collection from the 1800's where the mintage is LESS THAN 25 TOTAL COINS and the price is also less than some "pop top" 1 oz. modern gold or platinum eagles after about 130 years.
"Demand" exists right now on $25 w gold eagles. They are essentially "in play" and have been for a number of years. Hence, the strong prices. Can they possibly rise even higher? Of course they can. Can they possibly drop if that demand softens? Why not?
This is one of the excellent things about Eric's book. A collector can analyze this low mintage coin vs. that low mintage coin and determine if they want to pursue the "yet uncharted waters" coins or go with what has already been "hot" and hope that it keeps rising, etc., etc., etc..
Remember also that to properly "promote" an item, you need adequate supply. A coin with a mintage of 2,500 or 3,000 may not "fit that bill", while a 15,000 mintage coin might "fit the bill perfectly". A coin like my pattern nickel with a mintage 25 ... how tough is that one to "promote"? Consideration should be given to just how much more "demand" can be created by a successful "promotion" (assuming one takes place) and the chances the coin you are pursuing is a candidate for a "promotion" down the road.
Hope this helps.
Just my 2 cents as always. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I always appreciate your insights, Wondercoin--and jmski's and others', too. I just find it interesting that this particular series is "in play" as you put it. Maybe I shouldn't be. I've always liked these coins a lot. It'll be interesting to see if they hold their appeal or start to slide when the promotions end...
So...my copy of Eric's book arrived from Borders yesterday morning...and then my wife surprised me last night with a second copy that she previously ordered from Amazon (bless her little heart)!
Therefore, do I win a prize for being the first to RETURN a copy of Eric's book?!?
Just curious, when did you first get the idea for the book? How long did it take from start to finish?
Again, thanks so much for doing it. FANTASTIC job!!!
Ron >>
Ron,
A moderns guy named Charles Crews told me that the moderns collectors needed a book that had good and complete mintage tables and represented our school of thought. He suggested that I and the people I run with were probably qualified and that we cant count of established coin authors that have no interest or special competence in moderns to do a good job. It took 2 years and about 1,500 hours to finish the research.
KP (and Debbie Bradley in particular) gave the moderns guys a text and in some ways "literary justification" for our area of collecting interest. KP gave us the ball and now its up to us to run with it and in time we may find we are the mainstream. The cutting edge moderns collectors of the 1906 to 1936 era in time became the center and we may too.
Go forth and conquer :-)
Eric >>
Go forth and conquer :-) - Something which we will all be in a much better position to accomplish thanks to your book!!
True auction for a Julia PCGS MS70 NON-FS.....$1726. Pretty impressive appreciation over just a few weeks! (Also quite a gamble on this staying the lowest mintage spouse I think).
Edited to add...HOLY COW! Someone actually bought the Julia PCGS MS 70FS for $2700 that I posted about earlier. Just unreal - these buyers sure are taking a gamble on this being the lowest mintage hag...with a lot of lesser known and less attractive hags coming down the pike.
<< <i>True auction for a Julia PCGS MS70 NON-FS.....$1726. Pretty impressive appreciation over just a few weeks! (Also quite a gamble on this staying the lowest mintage spouse I think).
Edited to add...HOLY COW! Someone actually bought the Julia PCGS MS 70FS for $2700 that I posted about earlier. Just unreal - these buyers sure are taking a gamble on this being the lowest mintage hag...with a lot of lesser known and less attractive hags coming down the pike. >>
Yeah, I'd really be surprised if this turned out to be a wise decision. It does fit Eric's price spike scenario very closely, however.
Initially, when Julia sales stopped, the Uncs. evaporated but Proofs were still there for the taking at reasonable prices. What's up with the higher mintage Proofs now - I don't get it?
<< <i>Initially, when Julia sales stopped, the Uncs. evaporated but Proofs were still there for the taking at reasonable prices. What's up with the higher mintage Proofs now - I don't get it? >>
Here's my opinion, posted earlier on another thread:
I think the Julia proofs are going to outshine the uncirculated versions (no pun intended). Speculators anticipating a low mintage probably gravitated toward the uncirculated Julias and ignored the proofs. However, future demand from collectors will probably center on the proofs because they're considerably more attractive. That's the reason why proof commemoratives consistently outsell uncs, even at higher original issue prices.
My books (which were ordered right along with Eric's order at the beginning of the year) got delayed. Eric was able to get Krause to send him a portion of his ordered books to be received sometime next week. I hope to do the same when I speak with them on Monday. So, to everyone that will be receiving a courtesy book from me ... sorry for the delay.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>I can see this spike bubble for the Harrison bursting and coming down to reasonable levels. I too feel there will be lower mintages still to come. >>
While I can see genuine collector-driven demand for the buffalo and eagle series, this just seems like a blatant--and short-lived--speculator feeding frenzy. I'd be astonished if this "hot potato" game holds up for more than a year. Then again, it might just get added to the mystifying list of First Strike, toners, etc... that gain a following.
Oh, and kudos to Eric for not adding to the First Strike fad in his book!
I think we've seen the lowest mintages for the Spouse coins. They are receiving *much* more attention now than they ever have before, and the high prices being received for the Tylers will encourage future purchases from the Mint. The same thing happened in the regular commemorative series with the 1997-W uncirculated Jackie Robinson $5 gold, and no standard gold commem has had a lower mintage since then.
<< <i>I think we've seen the lowest mintages for the Spouse coins. They are receiving *much* more attention now than they ever have before, and the high prices being received for the Tylers will encourage future purchases from the Mint. The same thing happened in the regular commemorative series with the 1997-W uncirculated Jackie Robinson $5 gold, and no standard gold commem has had a lower mintage since then. >>
It will be hard to beat a 2800 mintage especially with the little flurry going on now. The only way I can see it happening is a major depresion with high gold prices when hardly anyone can justify a purchase but I hope we don't see that.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Uhh, I am almost ashamed to say, I have been a slavish collector of late gold, platinum, etc. out of the mint and have a "ho hummm, who really I do not pretend to represent all the collectors out there but suspect there is a huge non-interest factor going on.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Uhh, I am almost ashamed to say, I have been a slavish collector of late gold, platinum, etc. out of the mint and have a "ho hummm, who really I do not pretend to represent all the collectors out there but suspect there is a huge non-interest factor going on. >>
Yes, there is a non-interest out there. Tell you what, if you want to sell any of your 2008 W Buffalos at your purchase price, I will give it serious consideration and save you from all that shame. Heck, I will even consider the 08-W Gold Eagles. I think other friends on this board would help with your plats.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
It is interesting how the subset of liberties does not seem to be participating in this price run up. Looks like in the long run, mintage is more important after all. at least for price appreciation. Buchanan`s Liberty Next ??? I will have to watch the numbers closely, before I commit to buy.
I think the lowest mintage Liberty will find some appreciation and the others may be somewhat flat, following the gold spot more or less. The lowest Liberty will be a key within the set even if it is not a key in the series.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Just a thought, Eric Jordan's book is great and I love the information therein however there may not be as much of a positive price hit on these latest gold, plats & commems since it may be likely the buyers of the book already in the series - preaching to the choir as it were.
Boring around the numismatic world in the summer doldrums even with the ANA. Hope some good happenings there...
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I don't think you should consider any result of the book to be immediate but over the long haul I think it could attract a good bit of new interest to the moderns and even classic coin collecting. I think the title chosen will draw interest of those outside of coin collecting with an interest in investing for the future. For the purist who hates the concept of mixing coin collecting with investing it might be a turnoff but I think they are a minority.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>It is interesting how the subset of liberties does not seem to be participating in this price run up. Looks like in the long run, mintage is more important after all. at least for price appreciation. Buchanan`s Liberty Next ??? I will have to watch the numbers closely, before I commit to buy. >>
I think the Liberty subset will move higher once it is complete and we know the final mintage of all 4 coins. I also expect the better-looking proofs will outperform the uncirculated versions.
<< <i>It is interesting how the subset of liberties does not seem to be participating in this price run up. Looks like in the long run, mintage is more important after all. at least for price appreciation. Buchanan`s Liberty Next ??? I will have to watch the numbers closely, before I commit to buy. >>
I think the Liberty subset will move higher once it is complete and we know the final mintage of all 4 coins. I also expect the better-looking proofs will outperform the uncirculated versions. >>
I will like to see the 4 coins in a PCGS brick. Is there anyway to know if PCGS will be offering that?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Tell you what, if you want to sell any of your 2008 W Buffalos at your purchase price, I will give it serious consideration and save you from all that shame. Heck, I will even consider the 08-W Gold Eagles. I think other friends on this board would help with your plats.
My 2008W Buffs, 08-W Gold Eagles, and my Plats are staying put. I can deal with all the shame. However, I'd be glad to discuss some of my Sac & Kennedy rolls, or maybe a few First Day of Issue Prez dollars and even a Proof Set or two?
It may be difficult to keep the last Liberty spouse under 5 & 8k.
Probably so, but I'm buying some anyway - if the cash flow gets here in time. The Mint always finds a way to suck money out of my wallet, somehow.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Giving the seller some credit for a well written description as it is compelling if you aren't paying close attention to the other spouse mintages.
This auction is for the VERY rare 2009 W Letitia Tyler First Spouse Uncirculated 1/2 ounce Gold $10 piece. The fineness of the gold is .9999! This coin is NO LONGER AVAILABLE from the United States Mint.
The Mint reports that only 3152 of these coins were sold! (Source: firstspousecoinguide.com.)
The Letitia Tyler Uncirculated $10 piece is far scarcer than:
a) The rarest modern U.S. commemorative coin -- the Uncirculated Jackie Robinson 1997 gold $5 -- 5174 minted. b) The rarest Gold American Eagle coin -- the 2008-W, burnished uncirculated 1/4 ounce -- 9164 minted.
This Letitia Tyler uncirculated gold piece has GREAT potential to increase in value!
The Letitia Tyler gold $10 piece honors the first wife of President John Tyler. Mrs. Tyler died while her husband was in office. The Mint's web site described the coin as follows:
This is the second coin released in 2009 in the First Spouse Gold Coin Series and features Letitia Tyler, who was the first wife of President John Tyler. This coin is a one-half ounce 24-karat gold coin struck in uncirculated condition, giving it a satin-like finish. The obverse features a portrait of Letitia Tyler and the reverse depicts her with her children at the Cedar Grove Plantation where they were born. This coin is [sold with] a custom-designed, highly polished, plush-lined presentation case accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity signed by the Director of the United States Mint.
The original Mint boxes and certificate of authenticity are included. We purchased this coin over-the-counter from the Mint. We have handled the packaging with care and stored it in a smoke-free, low-humidity environment. The packaging is in excellent condition, except a Mint employee hand-printed "L. Tyler Unc" on the bar code label. The coin and packaging will be shipped to the winning bidder in a crush-resistant, rigid cardboard box.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
Get out your wallets.....from an email from The Mint today....
(When are the 5 oz Americal the Beautiful Silvers going to be out??)
Notification 2010 Schedule of Products The 2010 Scheduled Products Listing is now available. Please note that on-sale dates are subject to change. Visit the United States Mint Online Catalog for the most up-to-date information.
Product Description Release Date 2010 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set® 07/15/10
2010 United States Mint Proof Set® 07/22/10
America the Beautiful Quarters™ Bags and Two-Roll Sets - Yosemite (CA) 07/26/10
2010 United States Mint American Eagle Platinum Coin: Preamble Series 08/12/10
2010 James Buchanan Presidential $1 Coin 25-Coin Rolls 08/19/10
2010 United States Mint Silver Proof Set™ 08/26/10
2010 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins - Buchanan's Liberty 09/02/10
2010 Buchanan's Liberty Bronze Medal 1 5/16" 09/02/10 America the Beautiful Quarters™ Bags and Two-Roll Sets - Grand Canyon (AZ) 09/20/10
2010 United States Mint Presidential $1 Coin & First Spouse Medal Set™ - James Buchanan 09/23/10
James Buchanan $1 Coin Cover 09/30/10
America the Beautiful Quarters™ Bags and Two-Roll Sets - Mount Hood (OR) 11/15/10
2010 Abraham Lincoln Presidential $1 Coin 25-Coin Rolls 11/18/10
2010 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins - Mary Todd Lincoln 12/02/10
Mary Todd Lincoln Bronze Medal 1 5/16" 12/02/10
First Spouse Bronze Medal Series: Four-Medal Set 12/02/10
2010 United States Mint Presidential $1 Coin & First Spouse Medal Set™ - Abraham Lincoln 12/23/10
2010 Abraham Lincoln $1 Coin Cover 12/30/10
2010 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin* TBD
2010 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin* TBD
2010 American Eagle Gold Proof Coins* TBD
2010 American Eagle One Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin* TBD
* Public Laws 99-61 and 99-185 mandate that the United States Mint mint and issue its American Eagle Silver and Gold Bullion Coins "...in quantities sufficient to meet public demand..." There is no corresponding legal requirement to mint and issue the proof and uncirculated coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand. The United States Mint, however, is continuing to work with current and potential blank suppliers to increase the supply of silver and gold blanks in amounts that may make it possible to offer the proof and uncirculated versions of American Eagle Silver and Gold Coins in 2010.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or to cancel this electronic subscription, please visit http://www.usmint.gov/email/?action=newsletters.
<< <i>Giving the seller some credit for a well written description as it is compelling if you aren't paying close attention to the other spouse mintages.
This auction is for the VERY rare 2009 W Letitia Tyler First Spouse Uncirculated 1/2 ounce Gold $10 piece. The fineness of the gold is .9999! This coin is NO LONGER AVAILABLE from the United States Mint.
The Mint reports that only 3152 of these coins were sold! (Source: firstspousecoinguide.com.)
The Letitia Tyler Uncirculated $10 piece is far scarcer than:
a) The rarest modern U.S. commemorative coin -- the Uncirculated Jackie Robinson 1997 gold $5 -- 5174 minted. b) The rarest Gold American Eagle coin -- the 2008-W, burnished uncirculated 1/4 ounce -- 9164 minted.
This Letitia Tyler uncirculated gold piece has GREAT potential to increase in value!
The Letitia Tyler gold $10 piece honors the first wife of President John Tyler. Mrs. Tyler died while her husband was in office. The Mint's web site described the coin as follows:
This is the second coin released in 2009 in the First Spouse Gold Coin Series and features Letitia Tyler, who was the first wife of President John Tyler. This coin is a one-half ounce 24-karat gold coin struck in uncirculated condition, giving it a satin-like finish. The obverse features a portrait of Letitia Tyler and the reverse depicts her with her children at the Cedar Grove Plantation where they were born. This coin is [sold with] a custom-designed, highly polished, plush-lined presentation case accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity signed by the Director of the United States Mint.
The original Mint boxes and certificate of authenticity are included. We purchased this coin over-the-counter from the Mint. We have handled the packaging with care and stored it in a smoke-free, low-humidity environment. The packaging is in excellent condition, except a Mint employee hand-printed "L. Tyler Unc" on the bar code label. The coin and packaging will be shipped to the winning bidder in a crush-resistant, rigid cardboard box. >>
I agree that it is an extremely well composed auction - and the seller has been well compensated for his efforts. An example for all of us to keep in mind.
So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
<< <i>L. Tyler PCGS-MS70 sold tonight at $1,063.75 and an A. Harrison PCGS-MS70 sold tonight at $1,035. Logical sales prices. Sellers' net about $900/coin.
Wondercoin >>
I am not seeing that. Where did they sell? Why is that logical when we are talking about a coin (Letitia) in top grade that is a good candidate for one of the lowest mintage of the series and when the coin costs nearly $800 raw and then there are grading and shipping fees on top of that?
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know??? >>
7Jaguars has talked about the dispersion factor of the coins, and I tend to agree with him. 2004 was basically off the radar when it went dark and is probably in 5000 separate hands. Most of us were tuned into the 2008s, however, and a lot of us ended up with excess supply, which still means there's more available for sale. Anyway, I think that's as likely an explanation as any. I do believe the '08s will overtake the '04s eventually, though.
There are a lot of similar trends out there, too, with the unc-ws, etc... but I expect most will even out. One that I find curious, though, is how the Smithsonian unc gold has really dropped compared to higher mintage Olympic gold commems. I wonder what's going on with that--some kind of promotion maybe? More cohesiveness in the Olympic set?
I only ask because I wonder if I should buy the 2004 plat proofs now or wait a bit? But I do know this...if I buy now, everyone else should sell, because then they'll definitely tank!
<< <i>So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know??? >>
The 2004 proofs were predominantly sold to collectors rather than speculators, so most of them likely found permanent homes and are not as readily available on the secondary market. Therefore, collectors seeking 2004 proofs have to "pay up" to pry them from the hands of existing collectors. By contrast, 2008 proofs are currently more readily available, primarily from owners who bought the coins in anticipation of a low mintage, and prefer an immediate profit rather than long-term appreciation.
That said, the gap is not all that large. In recent eBay true auctions, a 2008-W $10 proof in OGP fetched $437 and a 2004-W $10 proof in OGP realized $512. The price/mintage disparity should correct itself with time.
I only ask because I wonder if I should buy the 2004 plat proofs now or wait a bit? But I do know this...if I buy now, everyone else should sell, because then they'll definitely tank! >>
Having bought the '04 $50 at its PEAK, I think these prices look pretty good right now. It wouldn't surprise me if they creep down a bit more, though. As usual, it always goes back to whether the # of collectors and speculators will rise or fall. I'm guessing it's going to stay pretty flat for a while, but only the 8-Ball knows for sure!
<< <i>So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know??? >>
The 2004 proofs were predominantly sold to collectors rather than speculators, so most of them likely found permanent homes and are not as readily available on the secondary market. Therefore, collectors seeking 2004 proofs have to "pay up" to pry them from the hands of existing collectors. By contrast, 2008 proofs are currently more readily available, primarily from owners who bought the coins in anticipation of a low mintage, and prefer an immediate profit rather than long-term appreciation.
That said, the gap is not all that large. In recent eBay true auctions, a 2008-W $10 proof in OGP fetched $437 and a 2004-W $10 proof in OGP realized $512. The price/mintage disparity should correct itself with time. >>
I think that, in time, the 2008 w plat proofs will absolutely overtake the 2004s. The number of collectors wanting them is likely the same and the 2008 w supply is less.
Comments
I knew it would happen.
You are welcome.
Eric
<< <i> I am wondering why the $25 gold unc-w eagles are so hot. Yes, they are fairly low mintage, but so are a lot of other things. Anyone have any insights to this? Is it just because the entire series is more widely collected than many others?
Grits, I've noticed this and I've been wondering about this too. I can offer this thought - when the AGE Series first started, I was hot for the whole idea but I didn't really have enough steady money to collect the whole series. Even back then I felt that the lowest mintage coins would eventually rule (Lesson No.1), so I bought the 1/4 ozers and 1/2 ozers on that basis. 1 oz. gold coins were simply too expensive for my budget at the time, and it turns out that the 1/4 oz. and 1/2 oz. coins are almost always lower mintages than the 1 oz. coins anyway.
I bought (5) of each in 1988 and 1989, but by 1990 I had lost steam and the money to invest just wasn't there. In the ensuing years, the lowest mintage issues were produced in 1990 and 1991 - and their performance has been good if you had had the foresight to buy into them. Lesson No.2 - buy when it hurts, because when the market is hurting in general, that is when the overall sales numbers will always be less than when the economy is booming.
I also think that the market for AGEs is partway into the maturation process, where actual collectors are reducing the number of coins that are available - one coin at a time, and that the dealers in Moderns are seeing this firsthand. >>
I've collected these along the same lines, jmski, and was lucky enough to get the '90 and '91 before they went up. I have not, however, filled in most of the other dates--until the "w"s started showing up. If the collector base is that strong, I would think that the "w"s will push up the prices of the '90 and '91. I agree with Eric that if ALL of these coins are taken as a series, then the '91 probably should still reign supreme because of the poor condition of so many of the coins (my '91 graded only a 67, and my '90s both 68). HOWEVER, I'm not sure that's happening (maybe Wondercoin has a better read on this), and that's making me think that speculation is driving the "w"s more than collector demand.
"Demand" exists right now on $25 w gold eagles. They are essentially "in play" and have been for a number of years. Hence, the strong prices. Can they possibly rise even higher? Of course they can. Can they possibly drop if that demand softens? Why not?
This is one of the excellent things about Eric's book. A collector can analyze this low mintage coin vs. that low mintage coin and determine if they want to pursue the "yet uncharted waters" coins or go with what has already been "hot" and hope that it keeps rising, etc., etc., etc..
Remember also that to properly "promote" an item, you need adequate supply. A coin with a mintage of 2,500 or 3,000 may not "fit that bill", while a 15,000 mintage coin might "fit the bill perfectly". A coin like my pattern nickel with a mintage 25 ... how tough is that one to "promote"? Consideration should be given to just how much more "demand" can be created by a successful "promotion" (assuming one takes place) and the chances the coin you are pursuing is a candidate for a "promotion" down the road.
Hope this helps.
Just my 2 cents as always. Wondercoin
I commented on your book at the US Coin forum thread....I would be preaching to the choir here.
R95
Therefore, do I win a prize for being the first to RETURN a copy of Eric's book?!?
Jet what were you trying to say?
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>Eric-
Just curious, when did you first get the idea for the book? How long did it take from start to finish?
Again, thanks so much for doing it. FANTASTIC job!!!
Ron >>
Ron,
A moderns guy named Charles Crews told me that the moderns collectors needed a book that had good and complete mintage tables and represented our school of thought. He suggested that I and the people I run with were probably qualified and that we cant count of established coin authors that have no interest or special competence in moderns to do a good job. It took 2 years and about 1,500 hours to finish the research.
KP (and Debbie Bradley in particular) gave the moderns guys a text and in some ways "literary justification" for our area of collecting interest. KP gave us the ball and now its up to us to run with it and in time we may find we are the mainstream. The cutting edge moderns collectors of the 1906 to 1936 era in time became the center and we may too.
Go forth and conquer :-)
Eric >>
Go forth and conquer :-) - Something which we will all be in a much better position to accomplish thanks to your book!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280529576238&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Edited to add...HOLY COW! Someone actually bought the Julia PCGS MS 70FS for $2700 that I posted about earlier. Just unreal - these buyers sure are taking a gamble on this being the lowest mintage hag...with a lot of lesser known and less attractive hags coming down the pike.
<< <i>True auction for a Julia PCGS MS70 NON-FS.....$1726. Pretty impressive appreciation over just a few weeks! (Also quite a gamble on this staying the lowest mintage spouse I think).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280529576238&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Edited to add...HOLY COW! Someone actually bought the Julia PCGS MS 70FS for $2700 that I posted about earlier. Just unreal - these buyers sure are taking a gamble on this being the lowest mintage hag...with a lot of lesser known and less attractive hags coming down the pike. >>
Yeah, I'd really be surprised if this turned out to be a wise decision. It does fit Eric's price spike scenario very closely, however.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Initially, when Julia sales stopped, the Uncs. evaporated but Proofs were still there for the taking at reasonable prices. What's up with the higher mintage Proofs now - I don't get it? >>
Here's my opinion, posted earlier on another thread:
I think the Julia proofs are going to outshine the uncirculated versions (no pun intended). Speculators anticipating a low mintage probably gravitated toward the uncirculated Julias and ignored the proofs. However, future demand from collectors will probably center on the proofs because they're considerably more attractive. That's the reason why proof commemoratives consistently outsell uncs, even at higher original issue prices.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Thank you for your great and informative book. I'm glad I bought two because the first is getting worn out.
<< <i>Looks like first spouse Gold is starting to take off. Even Anna Harrison is popping, that will probably get future mintages going higher! >>
I thought this would eventually happen but the trick was knowing when. As usual, I catch myself saying I wished I loaded up.
Wondercoin
U.S. Type Set
Classic Silver Commemoratives
Modern Commemorative 50c, $1 sivler
Modern Gold Commemoratives
<< <i>I can see this spike bubble for the Harrison bursting and coming down to reasonable levels. I too feel there will be lower mintages still to come. >>
While I can see genuine collector-driven demand for the buffalo and eagle series, this just seems like a blatant--and short-lived--speculator feeding frenzy. I'd be astonished if this "hot potato" game holds up for more than a year. Then again, it might just get added to the mystifying list of First Strike, toners, etc... that gain a following.
Oh, and kudos to Eric for not adding to the First Strike fad in his book!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I think we've seen the lowest mintages for the Spouse coins. They are receiving *much* more attention now than they ever have before, and the high prices being received for the Tylers will encourage future purchases from the Mint. The same thing happened in the regular commemorative series with the 1997-W uncirculated Jackie Robinson $5 gold, and no standard gold commem has had a lower mintage since then. >>
It will be hard to beat a 2800 mintage especially with the little flurry going on now. The only way I can see it happening is a major depresion with high gold prices when hardly anyone can justify a purchase but I hope we don't see that.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Uhh, I am almost ashamed to say, I have been a slavish collector of late gold, platinum, etc. out of the mint and have a "ho hummm, who really I do not pretend to represent all the collectors out there but suspect there is a huge non-interest factor going on. >>
Yes, there is a non-interest out there. Tell you what, if you want to sell any of your 2008 W Buffalos at your purchase price, I will give it serious consideration and save you from all that shame. Heck, I will even consider the 08-W Gold Eagles. I think other friends on this board would help with your plats.
Just a thought, Eric Jordan's book is great and I love the information therein however there may not be as much of a positive price hit on these latest gold, plats & commems since it may be likely the buyers of the book already in the series - preaching to the choir as it were.
Boring around the numismatic world in the summer doldrums even with the ANA. Hope some good happenings there...
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>It is interesting how the subset of liberties does not seem to be participating in this price run up. Looks like in the long run, mintage is more important after all. at least for price appreciation. Buchanan`s Liberty Next ??? I will have to watch the numbers closely, before I commit to buy. >>
I think the Liberty subset will move higher once it is complete and we know the final mintage of all 4 coins. I also expect the better-looking proofs will outperform the uncirculated versions.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
U.S. Type Set
Classic Silver Commemoratives
Modern Commemorative 50c, $1 sivler
Modern Gold Commemoratives
<< <i>
<< <i>It is interesting how the subset of liberties does not seem to be participating in this price run up. Looks like in the long run, mintage is more important after all. at least for price appreciation. Buchanan`s Liberty Next ??? I will have to watch the numbers closely, before I commit to buy. >>
I think the Liberty subset will move higher once it is complete and we know the final mintage of all 4 coins. I also expect the better-looking proofs will outperform the uncirculated versions. >>
I will like to see the 4 coins in a PCGS brick. Is there anyway to know if PCGS will be offering that?
My 2008W Buffs, 08-W Gold Eagles, and my Plats are staying put. I can deal with all the shame. However, I'd be glad to discuss some of my Sac & Kennedy rolls, or maybe a few First Day of Issue Prez dollars and even a Proof Set or two?
It may be difficult to keep the last Liberty spouse under 5 & 8k.
Probably so, but I'm buying some anyway - if the cash flow gets here in time. The Mint always finds a way to suck money out of my wallet, somehow.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Letitia MS70 - $3,550! >>
Much more $ than the Julia even with a higher mintage and both being Uncs. Go figure - makes absolutely no sense to me.
I think that this is a great time to sell both of these!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Letitia MS70 - $3,550! >>
Much more $ than the Julia even with a higher mintage and both being Uncs. Go figure - makes absolutely no sense to me.
I think that this is a great time to sell both of these!!! >>
All I can say is WOW
This auction is for the VERY rare 2009 W Letitia Tyler First Spouse Uncirculated 1/2 ounce Gold $10 piece. The fineness of the gold is .9999! This coin is NO LONGER AVAILABLE from the United States Mint.
The Mint reports that only 3152 of these coins were sold! (Source: firstspousecoinguide.com.)
The Letitia Tyler Uncirculated $10 piece is far scarcer than:
a) The rarest modern U.S. commemorative coin -- the Uncirculated Jackie Robinson 1997 gold $5 -- 5174 minted.
b) The rarest Gold American Eagle coin -- the 2008-W, burnished uncirculated 1/4 ounce -- 9164 minted.
This Letitia Tyler uncirculated gold piece has GREAT potential to increase in value!
The Letitia Tyler gold $10 piece honors the first wife of President John Tyler. Mrs. Tyler died while her husband was in office. The Mint's web site described the coin as follows:
This is the second coin released in 2009 in the First Spouse Gold Coin Series and features Letitia Tyler, who was the first wife of President John Tyler. This coin is a one-half ounce 24-karat gold coin struck in uncirculated condition, giving it a satin-like finish. The obverse features a portrait of Letitia Tyler and the reverse depicts her with her children at the Cedar Grove Plantation where they were born. This coin is [sold with] a custom-designed, highly polished, plush-lined presentation case accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity signed by the Director of the United States Mint.
The original Mint boxes and certificate of authenticity are included. We purchased this coin over-the-counter from the Mint. We have handled the packaging with care and stored it in a smoke-free, low-humidity environment. The packaging is in excellent condition, except a Mint employee hand-printed "L. Tyler Unc" on the bar code label. The coin and packaging will be shipped to the winning bidder in a crush-resistant, rigid cardboard box.
(When are the 5 oz Americal the Beautiful Silvers going to be out??)
Notification
2010 Schedule of Products
The 2010 Scheduled Products Listing is now available. Please note that on-sale dates are subject to change. Visit the United States Mint Online Catalog for the most up-to-date information.
Product Description Release Date
2010 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set® 07/15/10
2010 United States Mint Proof Set® 07/22/10
America the Beautiful Quarters™ Bags and Two-Roll Sets - Yosemite (CA) 07/26/10
2010 United States Mint American Eagle Platinum Coin: Preamble Series 08/12/10
2010 James Buchanan Presidential $1 Coin 25-Coin Rolls 08/19/10
2010 United States Mint Silver Proof Set™ 08/26/10
2010 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins - Buchanan's Liberty 09/02/10
2010 Buchanan's Liberty Bronze Medal 1 5/16" 09/02/10
America the Beautiful Quarters™ Bags and Two-Roll Sets - Grand Canyon (AZ) 09/20/10
2010 United States Mint Presidential $1 Coin & First Spouse Medal Set™ - James Buchanan 09/23/10
James Buchanan $1 Coin Cover 09/30/10
America the Beautiful Quarters™ Bags and Two-Roll Sets - Mount Hood (OR) 11/15/10
2010 Abraham Lincoln Presidential $1 Coin 25-Coin Rolls 11/18/10
2010 First Spouse Series One-Half Ounce Gold Coins - Mary Todd Lincoln 12/02/10
Mary Todd Lincoln Bronze Medal 1 5/16" 12/02/10
First Spouse Bronze Medal Series: Four-Medal Set 12/02/10
2010 United States Mint Presidential $1 Coin & First Spouse Medal Set™ - Abraham Lincoln 12/23/10
2010 Abraham Lincoln $1 Coin Cover 12/30/10
2010 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Proof Coin* TBD
2010 American Eagle One Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin* TBD
2010 American Eagle Gold Proof Coins* TBD
2010 American Eagle One Ounce Gold Uncirculated Coin* TBD
* Public Laws 99-61 and 99-185 mandate that the United States Mint mint and issue its American Eagle Silver and Gold Bullion Coins "...in quantities sufficient to meet public demand..." There is no corresponding legal requirement to mint and issue the proof and uncirculated coins in quantities sufficient to meet public demand. The United States Mint, however, is continuing to work with current and potential blank suppliers to increase the supply of silver and gold blanks in amounts that may make it possible to offer the proof and uncirculated versions of American Eagle Silver and Gold Coins in 2010.
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<< <i>Giving the seller some credit for a well written description as it is compelling if you aren't paying close attention to the other spouse mintages.
This auction is for the VERY rare 2009 W Letitia Tyler First Spouse Uncirculated 1/2 ounce Gold $10 piece. The fineness of the gold is .9999! This coin is NO LONGER AVAILABLE from the United States Mint.
The Mint reports that only 3152 of these coins were sold! (Source: firstspousecoinguide.com.)
The Letitia Tyler Uncirculated $10 piece is far scarcer than:
a) The rarest modern U.S. commemorative coin -- the Uncirculated Jackie Robinson 1997 gold $5 -- 5174 minted.
b) The rarest Gold American Eagle coin -- the 2008-W, burnished uncirculated 1/4 ounce -- 9164 minted.
This Letitia Tyler uncirculated gold piece has GREAT potential to increase in value!
The Letitia Tyler gold $10 piece honors the first wife of President John Tyler. Mrs. Tyler died while her husband was in office. The Mint's web site described the coin as follows:
This is the second coin released in 2009 in the First Spouse Gold Coin Series and features Letitia Tyler, who was the first wife of President John Tyler. This coin is a one-half ounce 24-karat gold coin struck in uncirculated condition, giving it a satin-like finish. The obverse features a portrait of Letitia Tyler and the reverse depicts her with her children at the Cedar Grove Plantation where they were born. This coin is [sold with] a custom-designed, highly polished, plush-lined presentation case accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity signed by the Director of the United States Mint.
The original Mint boxes and certificate of authenticity are included. We purchased this coin over-the-counter from the Mint. We have handled the packaging with care and stored it in a smoke-free, low-humidity environment. The packaging is in excellent condition, except a Mint employee hand-printed "L. Tyler Unc" on the bar code label. The coin and packaging will be shipped to the winning bidder in a crush-resistant, rigid cardboard box. >>
I agree that it is an extremely well composed auction - and the seller has been well compensated for his efforts. An example for all of us to keep in mind.
Wondercoin
So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know???
<< <i>L. Tyler PCGS-MS70 sold tonight at $1,063.75 and an A. Harrison PCGS-MS70 sold tonight at $1,035. Logical sales prices. Sellers' net about $900/coin.
Wondercoin >>
I am not seeing that. Where did they sell? Why is that logical when we are talking about a coin (Letitia) in top grade that is a good candidate for one of the lowest mintage of the series and when the coin costs nearly $800 raw and then there are grading and shipping fees on top of that?
<< <i>So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know??? >>
7Jaguars has talked about the dispersion factor of the coins, and I tend to agree with him. 2004 was basically off the radar when it went dark and is probably in 5000 separate hands. Most of us were tuned into the 2008s, however, and a lot of us ended up with excess supply, which still means there's more available for sale. Anyway, I think that's as likely an explanation as any. I do believe the '08s will overtake the '04s eventually, though.
There are a lot of similar trends out there, too, with the unc-ws, etc... but I expect most will even out. One that I find curious, though, is how the Smithsonian unc gold has really dropped compared to higher mintage Olympic gold commems. I wonder what's going on with that--some kind of promotion maybe? More cohesiveness in the Olympic set?
I only ask because I wonder if I should buy the 2004 plat proofs now or wait a bit? But I do know this...if I buy now, everyone else should sell, because then they'll definitely tank!
<< <i>So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know??? >>
The 2004 proofs were predominantly sold to collectors rather than speculators, so most of them likely found permanent homes and are not as readily available on the secondary market. Therefore, collectors seeking 2004 proofs have to "pay up" to pry them from the hands of existing collectors. By contrast, 2008 proofs are currently more readily available, primarily from owners who bought the coins in anticipation of a low mintage, and prefer an immediate profit rather than long-term appreciation.
That said, the gap is not all that large. In recent eBay true auctions, a 2008-W $10 proof in OGP fetched $437 and a 2004-W $10 proof in OGP realized $512. The price/mintage disparity should correct itself with time.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>Thanks, Grits...
I only ask because I wonder if I should buy the 2004 plat proofs now or wait a bit? But I do know this...if I buy now, everyone else should sell, because then they'll definitely tank! >>
Having bought the '04 $50 at its PEAK, I think these prices look pretty good right now. It wouldn't surprise me if they creep down a bit more, though. As usual, it always goes back to whether the # of collectors and speculators will rise or fall. I'm guessing it's going to stay pretty flat for a while, but only the 8-Ball knows for sure!
<< <i>
<< <i>So after digesting Eric's book over a couple of cold Corona's this past weekend (some very interesting stuff, well done), I started tossing around some ideas for future purchases...and my question is this...why are the 2004 platinum proofs still holding a significant premium to the rarer 2008 issues? Do people just not accept that the lower 2008 mintage numbers are accurate?
Inquiring minds want to know??? >>
The 2004 proofs were predominantly sold to collectors rather than speculators, so most of them likely found permanent homes and are not as readily available on the secondary market. Therefore, collectors seeking 2004 proofs have to "pay up" to pry them from the hands of existing collectors. By contrast, 2008 proofs are currently more readily available, primarily from owners who bought the coins in anticipation of a low mintage, and prefer an immediate profit rather than long-term appreciation.
That said, the gap is not all that large. In recent eBay true auctions, a 2008-W $10 proof in OGP fetched $437 and a 2004-W $10 proof in OGP realized $512. The price/mintage disparity should correct itself with time. >>
I think that, in time, the 2008 w plat proofs will absolutely overtake the 2004s. The number of collectors wanting them is likely the same and the 2008 w supply is less.