<< <i>I like good looking very low mintage Federal gold bought at less than twice melt .......period. Do you think J & L are good looking and low mintage? Are the Letitia and Julia (esp Julia) going to be good coins over time? Probably. Will the Julia and Letitia be better coins than the Liberty sub set members keys? I doubt it. Will they be better than some of the State Parks silver issues this year? I doubt it. Are all the coins just mentioned above average bets? Likely.
Just MHO,
Eric >>
Eric-
Which State Parks silver quarters specifically are you referring to? All of the 2010 issues or some in particular. Are you modeling this on the 1999 silver proof quarters? I'd think because everyone is aware of how well that they did, there will be a lot more of the 2010 proof sliver quarters sold than was the case in 99. Would appreciate your thoughts on this.
Thanks, Ron >>
Ron,
I am talking about the 5 once silver slugs. I think they might be short struck compared to future years.
Others,
I do agree with some of the posters that this is a good time to work on changing reverse plat sets and their future is much more certain and favorable. I like the fractionals.
An hour earlier, one could have bought a sealed MS Jullia on ebay for about $1,075 after rebates on the BIN. Not for me, but at least $1,075 gets you a sealed coin.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
7/8 the Letita and Julia gold unc have almost the same mintages as the 2006 w unc plat 1 ounce and 2008 w unc 1 ounce coins, so I hardly see the plats as being spectacular by comparison, sorry.
5 oz National Parks silvers are now listed at Apmex as coming soon.
These will be interesting to watch.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
A bit OT, but just got an ad for the Perth Mint's "Mini Roo" gold coins. The ad touts "Leave it to the Perth Mint to make gold affordable." True, the coin only lists for $80--and on special for about $43. Even at the special price, that's $2400/oz gold. It's all about marketing, eh?
That's the big question. If they were to sell for the same premium as the 2010 silver eagles (using APMEX premiums), they would cost ~$110 each ($95.60 spot value).
However, it sounds like it cost the Mint plenty in initial production to bring these on line, so it will be a matter of how big a premium the Mint charges.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
Will the mint be making MS and proof versions of the 5 oz coin? If the coin is only released in bullion, will the mint be selling it to the public or do I have to buy it from dealers like AMPEX?
Edited to include: I poked around the web and found this interview with Ed Moy. I guess uncircs and proofs are a possibility?
"CoinNews Question: I have a question about the America the Beautiful 5 oz silver coins. How will the Mint distribute those? Will it be ordered directly from you or do we have to go through one of your authorized buyers?
A: Right. The authorized, primarily as a bullion coin, although we can make them as a numismatic product. So right now the focus has been on making them. Because when you have… the law was very specific, they said it had to be a certain diameter and it had to be 5 ounces. Well, there isn’t a 5 ounce blank out there, so we had to get this custom made.
Then, because it was 3 inches in diameter, well we’ve got a 5 ounce piece of silver and we stretch it out to a 3 inch diameter, it’s paper thin. And then congress mandated that we had to edge letter it. So when you edge letter a paper thin coin, you get crumples. We went back to congress and said technically it isn’t possible, and they said we’ve got too many other things going on, you guys figure out how to do it. We’ve been technologically struggling to make this coin happen.
We’ve made some breakthroughs in it, where the edge lettering is not as deep or noticeable. But it now doesn’t mess up the rest of the coin now. That addresses the difficulty that we’re having with the coin. So, we’re having that difficulty, we’re just shooting to meet the legislative mandate making it a bullion coin for now. Really a bullion coin is bought by authorized purchasers. That’s the only way you can get them. And when we work out the kinks, we’ll consider making them a numismatic product out of them. "
Thanks for the very informative post - big markup time. Who's buying? Eric, do you still like these or were you referring to a potential numismatic version? Thanks.
<< <i>Thanks for the very informative post - big markup time. Who's buying? Eric, do you still like these or were you referring to a potential numismatic version? Thanks. >>
My interest in the coins is not that specific yet. Its a hard to strike coin, with limited planchet supply and a short strike period between now and December. So its a good candidate to be a short struck and sold key date for an on going set.
<< <i>7/8 the Letita and Julia gold unc have almost the same mintages as the 2006 w unc plat 1 ounce and 2008 w unc 1 ounce coins, so I hardly see the plats as being spectacular by comparison, sorry. >>
Not to start a "My low mintage coin is better than your low mintage coin!" fight, I'll point out again value is not solely a product of mintage.
Demand must exceed available supply to have a positive impact on price and excessive price can act in reverse to reduce demand.
We all focus on mintage, grade and spot bullion content as these 3 factors are all largely objective and directly measurable.
Demand is much more fluid and subjective but arguably the most important determinant of price.
Now here is the question............
Allowing for variations in spot bullion value and similar populations for grade(MS/PR70) what will have a greater demand 1-3-5 years from now...........a sub 3,000 Platinum issue or a Gold Spouse??
I don't pretend to know the answer but the question should be asked.
P.S. While I adhere to the Price = Mintage/grade/spot bullion/demand formula, in this world where many coins are slabbed the Mintage/grade part of the formula can be altered to read "population of grade".
As has been pointed out by others for a single coin series there can often be a wide range of what % of original mintages will grade MS/PR70 with the resulting paradox of a coin with one year showing a higher total mintage but a lower published population of MS/PR70. coins.
The series of changing reverse 06-08W MS Plats are a super rare series and have a bright future. ANY real attempt to accumulate a position in these will send prices skyrocketing.
For all of you First Strike collectors - - - 30 sets......30 sets.......the amount of possible 08w MS70 FS Plat sets available....and therefore the amount of full run 06-08w ms70FS Plat sets available.
Is that a low enough pop for you? >>
Isn't that assuming that there aren't any early-postmarked unopened boxes still sitting around?
I think it's safe to assume that there aren't many unopened early boxes around; the sales numbers at the start of 2008 were very low. On top of that, of whatever quantity of unopened boxes might exist, not all would grade MS70.
I still own one mint-sealed 2008 platinum proof set that is FS eligible (one of two I bought direct from the Mint). I haven't been following the market very closely, but not sure that I'd make much, if any, profit over the purchase price.
<< Allowing for variations in spot bullion value and similar populations for grade(MS/PR70) what will have a greater demand 1-3-5 years from now...........a sub 3,000 Platinum issue or a Gold Spouse?? >>
For similar mintages, the Gold Spouse will have greater demand. Collectors are more familiar and more comfortable with gold. The rapidly increasing prices for the two Tylers shows that the very low mintages of these coins are starting to attract attention, which will spill over to the rest of the Spouse series. Completion of the Liberty subset later this year will attract additional interest. The plats will have their day, but I don't expect them to overtake the Spouse series in the next 1-3-5 years.
IMHO...." There's a Lady thats sure, all that glitters is Gold " There is very little interest in the Platinum Coin's ..........Sorry. Gold is and forever will be the KING.
" And she's buying a Stairway to Heaven" Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold.
Followup question on the America the Beautiful 5 oz silver coins. Who do you all recommend I buy the bullion coin from? I was looking for decent price and shipping and no sales pitches after I register and purchase some of the 5 oz coins. Thanks
Save for the Liberty subset, they all are ugly ducklings......
OK, maybe Julia was one of the best looking out of the bunch of homely women, but the series as a whole doesnt excite many......certainly not enough to drive long term price appreciation much beyond spot metal pricing.
I would like to think it will continue regardless of the occasional attempts at politicizing the content.
There are so many other forum sites dedicated to politics.
Miles >>
Very sorry Miles, I LOVE this thread and, of course, you're absolutely right. I was definitely not trying to politicize this (or any) thread but couldn't resist this one which I thought was very light humor. Anyway sorry for any offense...back to coins :-(
"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar??
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i> The series of changing reverse 06-08W MS Plats are a super rare series and have a bright future. ANY real attempt to accumulate a position in these will send prices skyrocketing.
For all of you First Strike collectors - - - 30 sets......30 sets.......the amount of possible 08w MS70 FS Plat sets available....and therefore the amount of full run 06-08w ms70FS Plat sets available.
Is that a low enough pop for you? >>
Actually the most full sets of ms70 first strikes someone can make is 28. As I am sitting on 2 of them I made them myself the first week they came out.
First hags still look like gold plated Franklin Mint items from the '60s and '70s. I am a collector and not a flipper and these interest me not one bit, having only gotten thre Jeff Lib. Even the low mintages just do not do it, they just don't have it. I believe the surge is flipper's paradise as there is pre
cious little else to play with (IMO, of course).
Like the Jackie and Smithsonians, not these....
Do not understand or go with the "always" statements.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Has anyone notice E-bay 2008 Louisa Adams First Spouse Coins in MS & PR70 selling for $2,500 + Whats up? >>
The proofs went for nearly $2900. I think it may have something to do with the certified populations which are pretty low but I was amazed that the regular 70 went also with the first strikes for the same price. Maybe someone wants to corner the market on Louisa. I wish I could help him out by providing a couple myself.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar?? >>
I think he is just stirring the Plat people up for fun just to see if they will start beating on the Spouses. I think it worked.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar?? >>
I think he is just stirring the Plat people up for fun just to see if they will start beating on the Spouses. I think it worked. >>
<< <i>"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar?? >>
I think he is just stirring the Plat people up for fun just to see if they will start beating on the Spouses. I think it worked. >>
PLATS RULE! HAGS SUCK!
Nope, no stirring here.
>>
Sorry, you cannot get the devil award twice in the same month.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry.
Spoken like a true flipper. And that ladies and gentlemen is why people treat modern collectors the way they do.
All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold.
This thread is about collecting modern coins and discussing their appreciation potential. If you want to talk about financial investments you may be on the wrong website.....sorry. That's just the way it is my friend.
Has anyone else noticed that all the Spouse coins in the Liberty subset have beaded borders on the obverse, while the rest have plain borders?
This further distinguishes the Liberty subset as a special group apart from the other Spouse coins. The beaded borders look nicer than the plain borders too IMO!
I have come to the conclusion that time will exonerate the changing reverse plat collectors. They will be the ROYAL set in 20 years in my humble opinion because they are the high end expression of the Fifty States quarters/ Parks quarters/Westward Nickels/Life Pennies/ Native Dollars/ Presidential Dollars etc structure. The ONLY expression of what is likely to be THE dominant preferential structure 20 years out. The set may develop more slowly than some of the gold and the sets keys may get battered from time to time by metals prices but in the end those that have complete sets will be some kind of proud of them longer term. I highly recommend the fractional changing reverse plats in complete set form if you can afford them and wish to hold an outstanding coin collection.
Many that collect the plats were also ahead of the curve on W mint marked mint state gold, 2008 buffs, and now ultra low mintage good looking hags.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I like good looking very low mintage Federal gold bought at less than twice melt .......period. Do you think J & L are good looking and low mintage? Are the Letitia and Julia (esp Julia) going to be good coins over time? Probably. Will the Julia and Letitia be better coins than the Liberty sub set members keys? I doubt it. Will they be better than some of the State Parks silver issues this year? I doubt it. Are all the coins just mentioned above average bets? Likely.
Just MHO,
Eric >>
Eric-
Which State Parks silver quarters specifically are you referring to? All of the 2010 issues or some in particular. Are you modeling this on the 1999 silver proof quarters? I'd think because everyone is aware of how well that they did, there will be a lot more of the 2010 proof sliver quarters sold than was the case in 99. Would appreciate your thoughts on this.
Thanks, Ron >>
Ron,
I am talking about the 5 once silver slugs. I think they might be short struck compared to future years.
Others,
I do agree with some of the posters that this is a good time to work on changing reverse plat sets and their future is much more certain and favorable. I like the fractionals.
Eirc
Does anyone have any info on release date for the 5 oz slugs?
Such slugs will be a first for the U.S. Mint I believe. Is this correct?
<< <i>in the 5oz national puck thread, someone indicating they had inside info said they were "in production" >>
Thanks! I wonder what they'll cost.
BTW, did you all notice $1675 for a Julia PCGS MS70 (and NOT a FS)!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270596157309&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
An hour earlier, one could have bought a sealed MS Jullia on ebay for about $1,075 after rebates on the BIN. Not for me, but at least $1,075 gets you a sealed coin.
Wondercoin
These will be interesting to watch.
However, it sounds like it cost the Mint plenty in initial production to bring these on line, so it will be a matter of how big a premium the Mint charges.
Edited to include:
I poked around the web and found this interview with Ed Moy. I guess uncircs and proofs are a possibility?
"CoinNews Question: I have a question about the America the Beautiful 5 oz silver coins. How will the Mint distribute those? Will it be ordered directly from you or do we have to go through one of your authorized buyers?
A: Right. The authorized, primarily as a bullion coin, although we can make them as a numismatic product. So right now the focus has been on making them. Because when you have… the law was very specific, they said it had to be a certain diameter and it had to be 5 ounces. Well, there isn’t a 5 ounce blank out there, so we had to get this custom made.
Then, because it was 3 inches in diameter, well we’ve got a 5 ounce piece of silver and we stretch it out to a 3 inch diameter, it’s paper thin. And then congress mandated that we had to edge letter it. So when you edge letter a paper thin coin, you get crumples. We went back to congress and said technically it isn’t possible, and they said we’ve got too many other things going on, you guys figure out how to do it. We’ve been technologically struggling to make this coin happen.
We’ve made some breakthroughs in it, where the edge lettering is not as deep or noticeable. But it now doesn’t mess up the rest of the coin now. That addresses the difficulty that we’re having with the coin. So, we’re having that difficulty, we’re just shooting to meet the legislative mandate making it a bullion coin for now. Really a bullion coin is bought by authorized purchasers. That’s the only way you can get them. And when we work out the kinks, we’ll consider making them a numismatic product out of them. "
and oh, by the Platinum Proof way, some Mint issues are doing just fine, still!
Maybe Legend Laura's well-heeled folks she likes to boast about are lowering their expectations and buying Modern Art too......
Miles
<< <i>Thanks for the very informative post - big markup time. Who's buying? Eric, do you still like these or were you referring to a potential numismatic version? Thanks. >>
My interest in the coins is not that specific yet. Its a hard to strike coin, with limited planchet supply and a short strike period between now and December. So its a good candidate to be a short struck and sold key date for an on going set.
Thanks
Eric
<< <i>7/8 the Letita and Julia gold unc have almost the same mintages as the 2006 w unc plat 1 ounce and 2008 w unc 1 ounce coins, so I hardly see the plats as being spectacular by comparison, sorry. >>
..............................................................................................................................................
Not to start a "My low mintage coin is better than your low mintage coin!" fight, I'll point out again value is not solely a product of mintage.
Demand must exceed available supply to have a positive impact on price and excessive price can act in reverse to reduce demand.
We all focus on mintage, grade and spot bullion content as these 3 factors are all largely objective and directly measurable.
Demand is much more fluid and subjective but arguably the most important determinant of price.
Now here is the question............
Allowing for variations in spot bullion value and similar populations for grade(MS/PR70) what will have a greater demand 1-3-5 years from now...........a sub 3,000 Platinum issue or a Gold Spouse??
I don't pretend to know the answer but the question should be asked.
P.S. While I adhere to the Price = Mintage/grade/spot bullion/demand formula, in this world where many coins are slabbed the Mintage/grade part of the formula can be altered to read "population of grade".
As has been pointed out by others for a single coin series there can often be a wide range of what % of original mintages will grade MS/PR70 with the resulting paradox of a coin with one year showing a higher total mintage but a lower published population of MS/PR70. coins.
30 - MS70 FS sets in existance. The number hasnt changed for some time now.
you can play around with 1/2 oz gold discs which feature first ladies which is hardly what the public goes ga-ga over........
or have truly beautiful designs in the most precious of metals used for coining.
your choice.
if there ever was a coin I would say we'll be paying melt for in a few years, MOST of the first spouse gold will fit the bill.
<< <i>
if there ever was a coin I would say we'll be paying melt for in a few years, MOST of the first spouse gold will fit the bill. >>
Just wait for the Hillary Clinton issue.
For all of you First Strike collectors - - - 30 sets......30 sets.......the amount of possible 08w MS70 FS Plat sets available....and therefore the amount of full run 06-08w ms70FS Plat sets available.
Is that a low enough pop for you? >>
Isn't that assuming that there aren't any early-postmarked unopened boxes still sitting around?
I think it's safe to assume that there aren't many unopened early boxes around; the sales numbers at the start of 2008 were very low. On top of that, of whatever quantity of unopened boxes might exist, not all would grade MS70.
I still own one mint-sealed 2008 platinum proof set that is FS eligible (one of two I bought direct from the Mint). I haven't been following the market very closely, but not sure that I'd make much, if any, profit over the purchase price.
For similar mintages, the Gold Spouse will have greater demand. Collectors are more familiar and more comfortable with gold. The rapidly increasing prices for the two Tylers shows that the very low mintages of these coins are starting to attract attention, which will spill over to the rest of the Spouse series. Completion of the Liberty subset later this year will attract additional interest. The plats will have their day, but I don't expect them to overtake the Spouse series in the next 1-3-5 years.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Save for the Liberty subset, they all are ugly ducklings......
OK, maybe Julia was one of the best looking out of the bunch of homely women, but the series as a whole doesnt excite many......certainly not enough to drive long term price appreciation much beyond spot metal pricing.
That's it.
I would like to think it will continue regardless of the occasional attempts at politicizing the content.
There are so many other forum sites dedicated to politics.
Miles
<< <i>I really enjoy visiting this thread.
I would like to think it will continue regardless of the occasional attempts at politicizing the content.
There are so many other forum sites dedicated to politics.
Miles >>
Huh???
<< <i>I really enjoy visiting this thread.
I would like to think it will continue regardless of the occasional attempts at politicizing the content.
There are so many other forum sites dedicated to politics.
Miles >>
Very sorry Miles, I LOVE this thread and, of course, you're absolutely right. I was definitely not trying to politicize this (or any) thread but couldn't resist this one which I thought was very light humor. Anyway sorry for any offense...back to coins :-(
Miles
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar??
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
<< <i> The series of changing reverse 06-08W MS Plats are a super rare series and have a bright future. ANY real attempt to accumulate a position in these will send prices skyrocketing.
For all of you First Strike collectors - - - 30 sets......30 sets.......the amount of possible 08w MS70 FS Plat sets available....and therefore the amount of full run 06-08w ms70FS Plat sets available.
Is that a low enough pop for you? >>
Actually the most full sets of ms70 first strikes someone can make is 28. As I am sitting on 2 of them
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
I was just wondering the same...
One could have done alot worse than buying Plats on a regular basis over the years.
I knew it would happen.
cious little else to play with (IMO, of course).
Like the Jackie and Smithsonians, not these....
Do not understand or go with the "always" statements.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>Has anyone notice E-bay 2008 Louisa Adams First Spouse Coins in MS & PR70 selling for $2,500 + Whats up?
The proofs went for nearly $2900.
<< <i>"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar?? >>
I think he is just stirring the Plat people up for fun just to see if they will start beating on the Spouses. I think it worked.
<< <i>
<< <i>"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar?? >>
I think he is just stirring the Plat people up for fun just to see if they will start beating on the Spouses. I think it worked. >>
PLATS RULE! HAGS SUCK!
Nope, no stirring here.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"Any low mintage gold coin is going to out perform any platinum coin.....sorry. That's just the way it is. All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold."
Anybody know why this guy is bad-mouthing platinum in every post while having a platinum eagle as his avatar?? >>
I think he is just stirring the Plat people up for fun just to see if they will start beating on the Spouses. I think it worked. >>
PLATS RULE! HAGS SUCK!
Nope, no stirring here.
Sorry, you cannot get the devil award twice in the same month.
Spoken like a true flipper. And that ladies and gentlemen is why people treat modern collectors the way they do.
All you people that bought into this Platinum Pump & No Dump.......You should have purchased Gold.
This thread is about collecting modern coins and discussing their appreciation potential. If you want to talk about financial investments you may be on the wrong website.....sorry. That's just the way it is my friend.
It looks like Modern Gold & Plat. Investors will all do well!!!
This further distinguishes the Liberty subset as a special group apart from the other Spouse coins. The beaded borders look nicer than the plain borders too IMO!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Many that collect the plats were also ahead of the curve on W mint marked mint state gold, 2008 buffs, and now ultra low mintage good looking hags.