Don't worry guys we owned you in a 4 game home series either last year or 2 years ago, but you still went on to make the playoffs. It's not like one series in April will destroy the Yanks.
<< <i>I am NOT a Yankee fan but I though I'd post anyway =P.
TAMPA BAY?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Wang is back and still no win, Yankees really need more good pitchers.
*now massive mob comes after me* >>
First, Tampa Bay has a VERY good hitting team with lots of speed. Their downfall is pitching except for Kazmir.
Second, Wang comes back for his first game, does NOT pitch horribly, Mussina coming back soon hopefully to be back in form...yes, there are some pitching problems but far from lost.
Maybe you should think twice about posting you non-yankees fan
To all the doubters...don't worry, we'll be there in the end. There are incredible winning streaks yet to come. Pitching will come around whether we get Clemens or not. Don't you worry yourselves, doubters, we'll be there.
James Shields is the only other solid pitcher for the Rays in their starting rotation. Personally I think we have 3 legitimate big league pitchers, Al Reyes, KAZ, and Shields. Don't worry our minor league rotation is gonna come up and produce pretty soon, and if you think I'm some idiot than check out all of the prospect reports, Niemann, Mcgee, Sonnanstine, Mitch Talbot, and a few more.
Five straight losses and some of us want to "throw up". Then, the Sox fan finds it just so convenient to chime in at this point in time as the Sox themselves look bad. Its just so easy to sound like the smart guy when things are going bad for the Yankees. The pitching will straighten itself out in due time is how I feel, and that is when the smart guys will be worried about a Yankee team that has plated 120 runs already ......
<< <i>Five straight losses and some of us want to "throw up". Then, the Sox fan finds it just so convenient to chime in at this point in time. Its just so easy to sound like the smart guy when things are going bad for the Yankees. The pitching will straighten itself out in due time is how I feel, and that is when the smart guys will be worried about a Yankee team that has plated 125 runs already ......
in due time smart guys, in due time >>
You know they need to get their licks in while they can. I think its the bug in the back of their brain that makes them worry about the fall out that is so common in Red Sox Nation year after year....except for 2004 of course.
Wang didnt pitch all that bad. Good control of the strike zone. Mussina will hopefully be back to him old self when he returns. Pavano? Who is he? Hopefully the Yanks trade him for another good young arm or two by trade deadline. They should have traded him when they had the chance. Oh well.
Will be interesting to see how Hughes does...on Thursday is it? I really thought they would bring up Ty Clippard first. I just hope they dont spook Hughes by bringing him up too early.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Yanks. They'll be there at the end. The Jays lost five in a row - including being swept by Baltimore -- before they came to Fenway. The injuries can't get any worse for the Jays and Yanks right now. The Jays should be getting Glaus back this weekend, but Zaun is now on the DL. When is Mussina expected back? Hughes is making his debut on Thursday. I'm looking forward to watching that one. The Yanks will miss Halladay in this two-game set. He tossed a gem last night against the Red Sox.
Hey not for nothing but I am well aware that you people are capable of tearing off a 20 game win streak, I dont think any Sox fan has pennant fever just yet. And incase nobody has noticed, the O's and Jays are involved in the division as well.
ahhhh bloody hell. We should have sent D-Mat to the showers. This guy is a junk ball pitcher...... a good one but he either does not trust his fastball or he is a junkball pitcher.
You are right Dan about him being more hittable than expected (so far) - but he is also very composed. Nothing rattles him. Luckily the Sox offense is covering him with enough runs.
I'm surprised Petitte wasn't sharper for you guys tonight.
That's just the 2007 Yankees for you. Their pitcher just don't seem to know how to pitch with the lead. The poor performances by the starters has led to the bullpen having to pitch more innings than any team in baseball. Therefore their bullpen, which started the year great, is overly taxed. My "I want to throw up comment earlier?" That was right after seeing Mike Myers give up a Grand Slam to a lefty. Why did that happen? Because he's been pitching or warming up every day this season. Horrible starting pitching leads to horrible bullpen performances due to being overworked.
What I was figuring I wouldn't see happen is the offense start to struggle thanks to poor pitching, but I think we're starting to see signs of that happening. I can't blame them either. How much motivation can you have when you know that if you score five runs in the first you'll still lose the game unless you score five more runs. Even then, it's no guarantee. I see Abreu, Cano, Giambi, and now even A-Rod trying to do way too much at the plate to compensate for the woefull pitching.
They have now lost 7 games in row and I don't see anything on the horizon that makes me think they can turn it around. Hughes had good stuff on Thursday and after a few starts might be respectable. They finally smartened up and removed Igawa from the rotation. Wang is back, but unless he can throw a complete game his efforts will be wasted. There is a reason why the Yankees are dead last in the American League East and Starting Pitching is the #1 reason. Take a look at the pitching stats, as a team, over at ESPN.com. In virtually all categories, the Yankees are last or close to it.
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
Even I am getting frustrated at this point. Its still early man ..... very early. I appreciate your outlook I guess. What can I say? Deep down I still believe the Yankees will right the ship ..... but our starting staff HAS to start putting in more innings even if they get shelled.
What bothers me about how you post and I quote ......."They have now lost 7 games in a row" ....... and the its the top of the 8th inning .... YOU CAN'T do that. You just CAN NOT as a baseball fan concede a loss with two more at bats coming up, I DON'T CARE HOW BAD THINGS LOOK. THAT is why I feel you are bridge jumper.
ughhhh .... no end in sight. At this very low point of a very early season there are obvious signs that the Red Sox just may run away with this division. So, yes, these thoughts run through my head ...... the ONLY silver lining here is that there is time to right the Yankee ship and be ready for a wild card run AT THE VERY LEAST. If THAT does not materialize there is always the hope that IF the Sox run away and hide that they fall flat on their face in October
sigh ...... this is a bleak and dark moment. I know I have relentlessly argued about it is April, it is early, bla, bla, bla ....... I am a fan so I will hope for the best and hope for the worst for our ancient rivals the Red Sox.
He can't pitch forever Jerry ..... right now I think it is his command as his stuff is still very good. BUT, ya can't pitch forever and if the end comes sooner then later I will tip my hat to a guy who gave us a career that no other closer has given their fans as far as post season success and probably will never happen again
<< <i>He can't pitch forever Jerry ..... right now I think it is his command as his stuff is still very good. BUT, ya can't pitch forever and if the end comes sooner then later I will tip my hat to a guy who gave us a career that no other closer has given their fans as far as post season success and probably will never happen again >>
I will tip my hat to him as well. I dont think he is done just yet though...
<< <i> I will tip my hat to him as well. I dont think he is done just yet though... >>
Right, and he just has not had work since the rest of the staff as blown up. His "stuff" is still the same. No concern there ..... but no Yankee fan is going to shed any tears the day he is done. He has been a closer for the ages ......
Think about it guys, IMAGINE Paplebon still as the bonafide Sox closer to start the 2018 season. THAT is how long Rivera has done it. I don't think anybody actually realizes that!
Mariano still has the ability ..... I am not conceding anything. BUT we all know the end is near whether it is this year or next or even in 2009. Mo pines to pitch in the new Yankee stadium so he will be around does that mean CLOSER at some point? I don't know but he will be around and be effective I am sure.
softparade - I am very surprised with your short memory. In 2004 the Yankees started 8-11, in 2005 they started 11-19. The Red Sox meanwhile have been a great team in April for a long time. I do not like the Yankees, cannot stand their fans (most of them not all), but to write them off at this point given their history would be foolish. I cannot believe that this stretch is indicative of how they are going to play all season. I have hoped 1965 was repeating itself for a long time, and it has yet to come true.
I am not quite sure you have read this whole thread? First of all, I am not writing anything off ..... but responding at a very low point in the season and a question by a Red Sox fan about if there are concerns for Mariano Rivera. Secondly, the 11-19 start you refer too was not filled with nearly the pitching woes that are rampant through the entire staff right now.
fortunately i am too young to remember 1965 as I was not even a sperm yet BUT I do have fond memories as a child of the late 70's run the Yanks had followed by the awful decade of the 1980's and early 90's. I was 8 years old and 9 years old when they won in 1977 and 1978. I can still see the Reggie bars on the field. I cut high school to drive up to the "business man specials" in 1985, 1986, and 1987. I have watched or listened to nearly every New York Yankee game from early 1977 until now ..... I know what the deal is.
Dan, there is no doubt that Rivera is one of the best closers we will ever see. In fact, I would say when the Yankees were winning those titles in the late 90's, Rivera was the team's MVP. When you knew he was coming in the game, it was basically over. He may or may not be done at this point (he's probably not) but I definitely give him his due.
Again, I DEFINITELY don't believe that Rivera is done. If his cutter lost its movement, or his velocity dropped down to where Mussina's is, then I'd be concerned. Right now, he just isn't hitting his spots and I can guarantee you that it is caused by complete lack of "meaningful" work. A closer is mentally built to close out a game. The Yankees' pitching has been so horrifically bad this year that he has had only a smattering of "meaningful" appearances and in those appearances it was his first time on the mound in a long, long time. Once Mo starts getting into games on a routine basis and has regular work, the command will be back.
The problem is that it's going to be tough getting him the work he needs. The starters are struggling to make it out of the 5th inning this year, and they have the fewest quality starts of any team in baseball. Their bullpen has thrown more innings than any team in baseball, and as a result they are completely wiped out. You can see that in the pitches they throw and the drop in "stuff" from each of the pitchers.
As much as I love Joe Torre, he is NOT the same manager that he was when he first started with Zimmer as his bench coach. The more years go by, the more I begin to think that Zimmer was a bit more responsible for the Yankees' success in the 90's. Before, Torre played an NL style game where he would be aggressive on the basepaths and would focus more on team style maneuvers. Now, whether it's a result of the high-priced free-agents the Yankees have acquired or Torre just forgetting what made him such a great manager before, the Yankees have become a station-to-station team that has become more and more passive.
There is a way that the Yankees could right their ship and turn things around, but I don't think Torre would be willing to do it. This "cure" would be to let your starters stay out there regardless of Pitch Count or the way they're getting smacked around. Tell your starters "You guys aren't doing your job and are causing our bullpen to be overworked. Whether you like it or not, today's you're pitching 7 innings and giving our pen a rest." Then, only pitch one person out of the pen and don't warm up a new guy every pitch. If Proctor and Myers have pitched in the past couple games, DON'T EVEN GET THEM WARMED UP! Bring in Farnsworth and have him pitch a few innings. Bring in Bruney and have him pitch a few innings. Give the overworked throwers (Proctor, Vizcaino, Myers, Henn) two days in a row off. Force the starters to go the distance and let them know that their stats will be shot to hell if they have a bad game, but they'll save the team by standing out there and taking one.
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
The only problem with your strategy jdurg is that I'm sure the Yankees are trying to win games, and if you leave their starters out there serving up batting practice like they have been, the games will be over and done by the 5th or 6th inning every night. I realize the bullpen has been getting rocked also, but it's kind of a no-win situation they are in. I can only imagine how many more runs would have been scored off of Pettitte last night if Torre just left him out there to dry in that 5th inning. How do you explain that to your team, if your Joe Torre?
I think it is pretty friggen obvious the Yankees need to string some quality starts in a row before any ship straightening can even begin. It does not take much warmth in the brain to know that is the answer. If that does not happen soo, we may see Joe Girardi managing the Yankees. And no Sox fans, this is not ME over-reacting, but probably what will be reality.
....and the Sox fans continue to enjoy wallowing in this thread and Yankee early season misery. Oh how sweet it would be for the tables to eventually turn.
Alrighty then, lets build off of this win. Things looked liked they really bottomed out after losing another starter before an out was made. Then, Igawa pitched his best game of his short career, Farnsworth was good, Bruney was good, and the best sight off all. ..... Mo was Mo.
I like tomorrows matchup. IF and I say IF the Yankees can walk away from this series by winning 2 of 3 after what things looked like in the top of the 1st today we have a day off Monday and can aactually start talking about righting the ship. Heres to hope!
<< <i>I like tomorrows matchup. IF and I say IF the Yankees can walk away from this series by winning 2 of 3 after what things looked like in the top of the 1st today we have a day off Monday and can actually start talking about righting the ship. Heres to hope! >>
I can agree with you on that. I LOVE tomorrow's matchup, though I do think it will depend on which Tavarez the Yankees see. I've seen the guy get absolutely shelled before against NY, yet I've also seen him throw a gem. I just honestly hope that they can build off of this win. This was the first time all year that they scored less than 4 runs and won a ball game. It's also the first time they have held an opponent to less than 4 runs. (I believe).
Igawa looked pretty good today, but I refuse to get any long-term excitement out of that until he throws three or four good looking games in a row. He's just as apt to throw a stinker up there next time as he is another gem. Also, while it really sucks for Karstens that he broke his leg and will be out for quite a while, I'm relieved to know that he won't be starting another game for a while. I'm sorry, but I have never seen him pitch respectably and his "stuff" just isn't nearly as good as a lot of people tend to believe. There's been a few pitchers in recent years that the Yankees have brought up that people have touted as "good". Karstens, Colter Bean, Sean Henn, and Phil Hughes. Hughes and Henn have shown good stuff and those are guys who over the long haul can become good pitchers. Bean and Karstens really haven't impressed me at all. Their stuff seems pretty mediocre and the results they are getting from that somewhat prove it.
I hope that Wang can throw together another good game tomorrow, and perhaps even throw a CG or perhaps 8-innings and give the bullpen the MUCH needed rest they deserve. (BTW, Bruney looked good today and hopefully Torre doesn't overwork him like he has the rest of the pen).
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
<< <i> As are over 80% of the starters in MLB. The Yankees don't have 5 Clemens or Hallidays sitting around on their rotation. Last I checked, nobody does. If Igawa pitches like he did today one out of every two starts and throws a "stinker" of varying degrees in his other starts, I could live with that from a 5th starter any day. >>
EXACTLY and I have been arguing with this bridge jumping "fan" for awhile now about these things. Jdurg thinks the Yankees should be running out a 15-20 game winner every day OR ELSE. He judges these early season performances by a hindered staff and ASSumes that things will be this way all year long. I would go out on a limb and say that Jdurg is a product of the post 1996 generation of Yankee fan. He would have to be .....
If Jdurg is in fact ..... which I think he is .... a product of post 1996 Yankee fandom then I would lay off of him. That would go a loooooong way in explaining why he sheds 2 weeks of April baseball as the end all for a season. Yankee fans who "grew up" in this time period have been spoiled beyond belief and good for them BUT it is a tad annoying ....
Okay, what the hell are you guys smoking and where can I get some. QUALITY PITCHING IS WHAT WINS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS AND THAT IS IT!!!!!!!!! YOU DO NOT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP BY BEATING THE CRAP OUT OF YOUR OPPONENTS WITH YOUR OFFENSE. IT WILL WIN THE REGULAR SEASON, AND THAT IS IT!!!! Why do you think the Yankees have been getting booted from the post-season these past few years? Do you honestly think it's because their hitting wasn't up to snuff? It was because their pitching wasn't close to what the rest of the playoff teams were putting up.
If you want to live in your fantasty world where even bad pitchers will suddenly turn it around and throw gems each and every time out, then fine. Live in your fantasty world. When NY struggled in the 1980's and early 1990's it wasn't because they lacked offense. It was because their best pitchers were Tim Leary, an aged Ron Guidry with "stuff" not even close to what it used to be, Andy Hawkins, Wade Taylor, Jeff Johnson, Scott Kamienicki, Steve Howe, and every other washed up, well past their prime "star" that you could think of. How did they do during those years? They struggled to make .500, the stadium was empty and you could get front row seats the day of the game, the games versus Boston only meant something because they were versus Boston and not because they meant something in the standings.
The whole reason for their stank was because of bad pitching. It wasn't until they brought in Jimmy Key that they actually could throw a pitcher up there who could compete with other #1 starters. Then eventually Andy Pettite and Mariano Rivera, two pitchers brought up through their own system, came up and although they struggled badly at first they showed they had the stuff to eventually become stars. (Rivera, if you are actually a true Yankee fan, got shelled as a starter when he first came up, hence why he was moved to the bullpen. His stuff was always good but his stamina at each start was questionable).
When NY won their championships, whether it was in this recent run in the 1990's or their previous runs in their history, the common trait was starting pitching. Once you put your bong down and read through what I'm posting maybe you'll come and realize that. If you want to get into personal insults, then just let me know as I'm not afraid to call you guys the rose-colored glasses wearing "We're the best team on Earth no matter what the statistics say" fanboys that you truly seem to be.
Their championship years have always included a staff of starters whom when they went on the mound you were more likely to see 7 solid innings than you were 7 solid runs given up in the first five innings. Can you say that this year? For Wang, Yes. For Pettite, Yes. For Mussina, not likely as he will cave in as soon as his pitch count says 100 and he goes crying away in the locker room. For Igawa, no. How can you have ANY reliability on a starter who is more inconsistant than a freshly mixed batch of flour and water? With the amount of money wasted on this guy, how can you think that NY looks at him as a fifth starter? Now how about Carl Pavano? He's more likely to wind up on the DL than he is to pitch 7 innings.
Go and do some research before you come out stating that things will get better and these pitchers are all superstars. Take a look at the pitching of teams who have succeeded in the playoffs over the past 30 years. Take a look at the success of teams who were high on the offensive lists come the end of the season. Look at the stats of this year's 2007 Yankees team and compare that to the stats of the previous 30 years and see where they line up with history. I hate to tell you this "bub", but the games right now are 100% just as crucial as the games in September. A loss today (or 13 of them) carry just as much weight as a loss in September. Had the team shown ANY signs of solid play or good performances in those losses then you could just chalk it up to the other team outplaying them. So far, that has only happened once (When Toronto beat them 6-0. They played pretty well but Toronto wasn't going to be beat that day). In their other losses they were more along the lines of NY Losing rather than the other team winning.
If you're happy with just making it to the playoffs, then good for you. I hope you enjoy being second best in life. Unlike you, softparade, I like seeing my teams win it all and not show up at Playoff Time with a joke of a pitching staff who can't get people out when it counts.
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer and most definately a prodcut of post 1996 fandom. This is the reason so many hate Yankee fans. He does nothing but whine and cry and put words in other mouths.
Comments
TAMPA BAY?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Wang is back and still no win, Yankees really need more good pitchers.
*now massive mob comes after me*
<< <i>I am NOT a Yankee fan but I though I'd post anyway =P.
TAMPA BAY?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Wang is back and still no win, Yankees really need more good pitchers.
*now massive mob comes after me* >>
First, Tampa Bay has a VERY good hitting team with lots of speed. Their downfall is pitching except for Kazmir.
Second, Wang comes back for his first game, does NOT pitch horribly, Mussina coming back soon hopefully to be back in form...yes, there are some pitching problems but far from lost.
Maybe you should think twice about posting you non-yankees fan
To all the doubters...don't worry, we'll be there in the end. There are incredible winning streaks yet to come. Pitching will come around whether we get Clemens or not. Don't you worry yourselves, doubters, we'll be there.
<< <i>Yankees still suck and A-Rod is the greatest ever.
Sincerely,
Tinkerbell
Don't forget to tell us how over rated Jeter is, Tinkerbell!
<< <i>I don't want to jump the gun here, but it looks like an important piece of the puzzle is falling into place.
Just curious, what do you mean by this?
in due time smart guys, in due time
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Five straight losses and some of us want to "throw up". Then, the Sox fan finds it just so convenient to chime in at this point in time. Its just so easy to sound like the smart guy when things are going bad for the Yankees. The pitching will straighten itself out in due time is how I feel, and that is when the smart guys will be worried about a Yankee team that has plated 125 runs already ......
in due time smart guys, in due time
You know they need to get their licks in while they can. I think its the bug in the back of their brain that makes them worry about the fall out that is so common in Red Sox Nation year after year....except for 2004 of course.
Wang didnt pitch all that bad. Good control of the strike zone. Mussina will hopefully be back to him old self when he returns. Pavano? Who is he? Hopefully the Yanks trade him for another good young arm or two by trade deadline. They should have traded him when they had the chance. Oh well.
Will be interesting to see how Hughes does...on Thursday is it? I really thought they would bring up Ty Clippard first. I just hope they dont spook Hughes by bringing him up too early.
Phil Hughes tomorrow and then Pettitte Friday. A new beginning
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I said that, don't be so quick to jump at the sight of any posts that may be deemed as anti Boston!
Anyway, the guy is good. I should have said he was more of a OFF SPEED kind of guy thus far. Much more hittable then I thought he might be ....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I'm surprised Petitte wasn't sharper for you guys tonight.
yet another lead coughed up right after taking the lead ....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
What I was figuring I wouldn't see happen is the offense start to struggle thanks to poor pitching, but I think we're starting to see signs of that happening. I can't blame them either. How much motivation can you have when you know that if you score five runs in the first you'll still lose the game unless you score five more runs. Even then, it's no guarantee. I see Abreu, Cano, Giambi, and now even A-Rod trying to do way too much at the plate to compensate for the woefull pitching.
They have now lost 7 games in row and I don't see anything on the horizon that makes me think they can turn it around. Hughes had good stuff on Thursday and after a few starts might be respectable. They finally smartened up and removed Igawa from the rotation. Wang is back, but unless he can throw a complete game his efforts will be wasted. There is a reason why the Yankees are dead last in the American League East and Starting Pitching is the #1 reason. Take a look at the pitching stats, as a team, over at ESPN.com. In virtually all categories, the Yankees are last or close to it.
Even I am getting frustrated at this point. Its still early man ..... very early. I appreciate your outlook I guess. What can I say? Deep down I still believe the Yankees will right the ship ..... but our starting staff HAS to start putting in more innings even if they get shelled.
What bothers me about how you post and I quote ......."They have now lost 7 games in a row" ....... and the its the top of the 8th inning .... YOU CAN'T do that. You just CAN NOT as a baseball fan concede a loss with two more at bats coming up, I DON'T CARE HOW BAD THINGS LOOK. THAT is why I feel you are bridge jumper.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
sigh ...... this is a bleak and dark moment. I know I have relentlessly argued about it is April, it is early, bla, bla, bla ....... I am a fan so I will hope for the best and hope for the worst for our ancient rivals the Red Sox.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>He can't pitch forever Jerry ..... right now I think it is his command as his stuff is still very good. BUT, ya can't pitch forever and if the end comes sooner then later I will tip my hat to a guy who gave us a career that no other closer has given their fans as far as post season success and probably will never happen again
I will tip my hat to him as well. I dont think he is done just yet though...
<< <i>
I will tip my hat to him as well. I dont think he is done just yet though... >>
Right, and he just has not had work since the rest of the staff as blown up. His "stuff" is still the same. No concern there ..... but no Yankee fan is going to shed any tears the day he is done. He has been a closer for the ages ......
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I am not quite sure you have read this whole thread? First of all, I am not writing anything off ..... but responding at a very low point in the season and a question by a Red Sox fan about if there are concerns for Mariano Rivera. Secondly, the 11-19 start you refer too was not filled with nearly the pitching woes that are rampant through the entire staff right now.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
fortunately i am too young to remember 1965 as I was not even a sperm yet BUT I do have fond memories as a child of the late 70's run the Yanks had followed by the awful decade of the 1980's and early 90's. I was 8 years old and 9 years old when they won in 1977 and 1978. I can still see the Reggie bars on the field. I cut high school to drive up to the "business man specials" in 1985, 1986, and 1987. I have watched or listened to nearly every New York Yankee game from early 1977 until now ..... I know what the deal is.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The problem is that it's going to be tough getting him the work he needs. The starters are struggling to make it out of the 5th inning this year, and they have the fewest quality starts of any team in baseball. Their bullpen has thrown more innings than any team in baseball, and as a result they are completely wiped out. You can see that in the pitches they throw and the drop in "stuff" from each of the pitchers.
As much as I love Joe Torre, he is NOT the same manager that he was when he first started with Zimmer as his bench coach. The more years go by, the more I begin to think that Zimmer was a bit more responsible for the Yankees' success in the 90's. Before, Torre played an NL style game where he would be aggressive on the basepaths and would focus more on team style maneuvers. Now, whether it's a result of the high-priced free-agents the Yankees have acquired or Torre just forgetting what made him such a great manager before, the Yankees have become a station-to-station team that has become more and more passive.
There is a way that the Yankees could right their ship and turn things around, but I don't think Torre would be willing to do it. This "cure" would be to let your starters stay out there regardless of Pitch Count or the way they're getting smacked around. Tell your starters "You guys aren't doing your job and are causing our bullpen to be overworked. Whether you like it or not, today's you're pitching 7 innings and giving our pen a rest." Then, only pitch one person out of the pen and don't warm up a new guy every pitch. If Proctor and Myers have pitched in the past couple games, DON'T EVEN GET THEM WARMED UP! Bring in Farnsworth and have him pitch a few innings. Bring in Bruney and have him pitch a few innings. Give the overworked throwers (Proctor, Vizcaino, Myers, Henn) two days in a row off. Force the starters to go the distance and let them know that their stats will be shot to hell if they have a bad game, but they'll save the team by standing out there and taking one.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>I like tomorrows matchup. IF and I say IF the Yankees can walk away from this series by winning 2 of 3 after what things looked like in the top of the 1st today we have a day off Monday and can actually start talking about righting the ship. Heres to hope!
I can agree with you on that. I LOVE tomorrow's matchup, though I do think it will depend on which Tavarez the Yankees see. I've seen the guy get absolutely shelled before against NY, yet I've also seen him throw a gem. I just honestly hope that they can build off of this win. This was the first time all year that they scored less than 4 runs and won a ball game. It's also the first time they have held an opponent to less than 4 runs. (I believe).
Igawa looked pretty good today, but I refuse to get any long-term excitement out of that until he throws three or four good looking games in a row. He's just as apt to throw a stinker up there next time as he is another gem. Also, while it really sucks for Karstens that he broke his leg and will be out for quite a while, I'm relieved to know that he won't be starting another game for a while. I'm sorry, but I have never seen him pitch respectably and his "stuff" just isn't nearly as good as a lot of people tend to believe. There's been a few pitchers in recent years that the Yankees have brought up that people have touted as "good". Karstens, Colter Bean, Sean Henn, and Phil Hughes. Hughes and Henn have shown good stuff and those are guys who over the long haul can become good pitchers. Bean and Karstens really haven't impressed me at all. Their stuff seems pretty mediocre and the results they are getting from that somewhat prove it.
I hope that Wang can throw together another good game tomorrow, and perhaps even throw a CG or perhaps 8-innings and give the bullpen the MUCH needed rest they deserve. (BTW, Bruney looked good today and hopefully Torre doesn't overwork him like he has the rest of the pen).
<< <i>
As are over 80% of the starters in MLB. The Yankees don't have 5 Clemens or Hallidays sitting around on their rotation. Last I checked, nobody does. If Igawa pitches like he did today one out of every two starts and throws a "stinker" of varying degrees in his other starts, I could live with that from a 5th starter any day. >>
EXACTLY and I have been arguing with this bridge jumping "fan" for awhile now about these things. Jdurg thinks the Yankees should be running out a 15-20 game winner every day OR ELSE. He judges these early season performances by a hindered staff and ASSumes that things will be this way all year long. I would go out on a limb and say that Jdurg is a product of the post 1996 generation of Yankee fan. He would have to be .....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
If you want to live in your fantasty world where even bad pitchers will suddenly turn it around and throw gems each and every time out, then fine. Live in your fantasty world. When NY struggled in the 1980's and early 1990's it wasn't because they lacked offense. It was because their best pitchers were Tim Leary, an aged Ron Guidry with "stuff" not even close to what it used to be, Andy Hawkins, Wade Taylor, Jeff Johnson, Scott Kamienicki, Steve Howe, and every other washed up, well past their prime "star" that you could think of. How did they do during those years? They struggled to make .500, the stadium was empty and you could get front row seats the day of the game, the games versus Boston only meant something because they were versus Boston and not because they meant something in the standings.
The whole reason for their stank was because of bad pitching. It wasn't until they brought in Jimmy Key that they actually could throw a pitcher up there who could compete with other #1 starters. Then eventually Andy Pettite and Mariano Rivera, two pitchers brought up through their own system, came up and although they struggled badly at first they showed they had the stuff to eventually become stars. (Rivera, if you are actually a true Yankee fan, got shelled as a starter when he first came up, hence why he was moved to the bullpen. His stuff was always good but his stamina at each start was questionable).
When NY won their championships, whether it was in this recent run in the 1990's or their previous runs in their history, the common trait was starting pitching. Once you put your bong down and read through what I'm posting maybe you'll come and realize that. If you want to get into personal insults, then just let me know as I'm not afraid to call you guys the rose-colored glasses wearing "We're the best team on Earth no matter what the statistics say" fanboys that you truly seem to be.
Their championship years have always included a staff of starters whom when they went on the mound you were more likely to see 7 solid innings than you were 7 solid runs given up in the first five innings. Can you say that this year? For Wang, Yes. For Pettite, Yes. For Mussina, not likely as he will cave in as soon as his pitch count says 100 and he goes crying away in the locker room. For Igawa, no. How can you have ANY reliability on a starter who is more inconsistant than a freshly mixed batch of flour and water? With the amount of money wasted on this guy, how can you think that NY looks at him as a fifth starter? Now how about Carl Pavano? He's more likely to wind up on the DL than he is to pitch 7 innings.
Go and do some research before you come out stating that things will get better and these pitchers are all superstars. Take a look at the pitching of teams who have succeeded in the playoffs over the past 30 years. Take a look at the success of teams who were high on the offensive lists come the end of the season. Look at the stats of this year's 2007 Yankees team and compare that to the stats of the previous 30 years and see where they line up with history. I hate to tell you this "bub", but the games right now are 100% just as crucial as the games in September. A loss today (or 13 of them) carry just as much weight as a loss in September. Had the team shown ANY signs of solid play or good performances in those losses then you could just chalk it up to the other team outplaying them. So far, that has only happened once (When Toronto beat them 6-0. They played pretty well but Toronto wasn't going to be beat that day). In their other losses they were more along the lines of NY Losing rather than the other team winning.
If you're happy with just making it to the playoffs, then good for you. I hope you enjoy being second best in life. Unlike you, softparade, I like seeing my teams win it all and not show up at Playoff Time with a joke of a pitching staff who can't get people out when it counts.
<< <i>It's also the first time they have held an opponent to less than 4 runs. (I believe). >>
Actually, it's the 6th, but why waste time watching the games when there's complaining to do?
anyway, lets take 2 out of three today !
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240