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2007 RED SOX CHAMPIONSHIP RUN

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  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pinero sucks donkey balls!!!!! imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    Dice man pitched a WINNER UGH! image
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Well, tomorrow is a day off and then it's Texas at Fenway without Teixeira still. Let's hope the Sox can catch their breath and then beat up on the Rangers.

    Since we do have some time before the next game and since we're approaching the All-Star break, I thought I'd pose a question for our discussion: Which player (or players) would you say has been the Red Sox MVP so far this season?
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Red Sox MVP - 1. Hideki Okajima 2. Kevin Youkilis 3. Mike Lowell

    Just off the top of my head, but that seems right to me. Okajima has been such an important part of the bullpen, in a role that no else could handle. Imagine if we had Timlin there? How many games would that have cost?

    Youk just fights at every AB, and you have to tip your cap to Lowell - no one expected him to hit like he has. Also, Dice-K has quietly become one of the best pitchers in the AL, and he gets better every start.
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  • ctsox- you're dead on about Okajima...he doesn't get the praise Papelbon gets, but he's been every bit as important, if not more so. I have to wonder why Ortiz continues to ignore his importance at drawing walks and swinging at garbage seemingly nightly - pitchers are on to his weakness of swinging at pitches out of the zone. For as much as I have disdain for Bonds, that's something he does amazingly well - works counts, minimizes bad swings. I hope Ortiz can develop into that, so pitchers have to come back in the strike zone for him.

  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    Ortiz has been in a funk all year. Due to a whol ebunch of reasons, most of which have to do with his new bat. Hopefully, he will be going back to his old bat weight or manufacturer after the all star break
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OKJ has been quietly been a stop gap in that middle relief role no doubt I give him an MVP as far as our pitching staff goes, as far as our lineup I am awarding Youk, I love his scrappy play and attitude.

    Catching this Texas team at this time without big Tex is great, hopefully we can pull off some wins here.

    Thank You to the Orioles by the way...
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I agree with the Okajima answers. I think that at the end of the year there's going to be a lot of talk about Beckett as a Cy Young candidate and I think he deserves whatever accolades he receives, but Okajima has appeared in 35 games so far this year and it seems like his success in each of those games was a critical component of the Red Sox success. Besides all that, I love it when he comes in because I get a kick out of Remy's pronounciation of his name . . . "Okajimer."

    Just because I'm bored, here are my other Red Sox awards at the (almost) halfway point:
    MVP: Okajima
    CY Young: Beckett
    Silver Slugger: Youkilis
    Gold Glove: Crisp
    Class Clown: Julian Tavarez / Manny Ramirez
    Most Likely to Succeed: Jason Varitek
    Most Popular: David Ortiz


  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LVP goes to Julio Luso, I think he gets named on 100% of the ballots.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My version of the Red Sox awards...

    MVP: OKJ/Youk
    Cy Young: Beckett
    Silver Slugger:Youk
    Gold Glove:Crisp
    Most Likely to succeed: Papi/Manny
    Least Valuable: JD Drew
  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MVP: OKJ/Youk
    Cy Young: Beckett
    Silver Slugger:Youk
    Gold Glove:Crisp
    Most Likely to succeed: Papi/Manny
    Least Valuable: JD Drew


    Agree with all but Drew (he was a stud for first two weeks), Lugo has been worse IMHO.
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Agree with all but Drew (he was a stud for first two weeks), Lugo has been worse IMHO. >>





    I compaired 14 MIL to 8 MIL and that's why I put Drew ahead of him.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    which Wakefield will we get tonight?
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>which Wakefield will we get tonight? >>



    Fortunately, the good Wake, as again, they could not score many runs for him. Nice work by Oki and Pap as well.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I love the fire Papelbon has for the game. I hope he learns to control it and channel it, but when the offense is struggling to score a "few" runs, it's so encouraging to see guys pumping fists now and then!
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    I agree - maybe J.D. could learn a thing or two from him.

    Tonight was another reason why I think Okajima is our MVP so far. No one in baseball is doing what he's doing right now as well as him.
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  • While Okajima has indeed been a fantastic pickup for you guys, to say he's the only one doing what he's doing is a bit of a stretch.

    J.J. from Seattle has been in nearly as many innings, in higher pressure situations (saves vs. holds), has been perfect in save opps this year (23 for 23), and has done the 3+ out thing 7 times this year, typically unheard of for closers. He has nearly 10 K's / 9 innings (about 2 better than Okajima). Hell, even George Sherrill has been nearly as good as Okajima.

    Again, this isn't a slight to Okajima, who has been a fantastic boost to that bullpen, and having both him and Papelbon has been a tremendous boost. But to say he's the only one doing what he does is doing a great disservice to the best bullpen in all of baseball - the Seattle Mariners.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Stitzen, you bring up some valid points . . . but I submit that pitching for Boston in any situation is more of a high pressure situation than it is for Seattle. That's probably just my bias at work, but it does seem like there's more scrutiny of everything the Red Sox do. Meanwhile, as recently as tonight I heard an ESPN "broadcaster" remind the viewing audience that Seattle is part of the United States and "oh, by the way, they have a pretty hot team right now." I'm not trying to slight Seattle (I hail from Washington myself) but I think that when you fail as a reliever in Boston the whole country knows about it. When you fail in Seattle, they show the other team's closer getting the save.

    I may be way off base on all my comments (I am really tired), but that's how I see it tonight.
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    Hey hey hey dont smear the Pap...oor the Oker
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    My comment about him performing his role better was certainly no slight to J.J. Putz. I was referring to the role as a reliable 8th inning setup man. I agree, Sherrill has also been fantastic (as has Putz). TheVon also brings up an interesting point about the pressure of pitching in Boston vs. Seattle - I hadn't thought of it that way. But I will certainly agree that the M's have a top notch bullpen, start to finish.
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  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    great play by LOOSE-O wtf was that>>> Another tough loss
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    That game had Red Sox blowout written all over it - what happened? I left the house with the score 4-0 Sox, and when I put the game on the radio in the car later, it was 5-4 Texas. Just in time to listen to Lugo try to steal third with 2 outs and Youk at the plate - wtf was that?
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  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just setteling in after a weekend away and I see the Sox lost a tough one last night, but the Yankees are showing ZERO offense against the A's which is a good thing!
  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lugo can kill a rally in so many ways...
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't mind if the Sox ate the contract they owe to Luso and NEVER put him in a game again. He totally blows. Not only has he lost the ability to hit, now he forgot how to run, how to read signs, how to think, and seemingly, how to slide. Without a doubt, he doesn't know how to win.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agreed, Im at the point now where he might be better off out of a Sox uniform...whatever it takes.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    my cable is out, so I'm listening to the game on XM...I'm thinking that $400 million has purchased a whole lot of impotent offense this year (NY + BOS). I can better understand NY's inability to hit against Oakland than I can Boston's inability to hit against Seattle and Texas pitching.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Baseball is weird like that
  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Losing 2 out of 3 to Texas at home is ridiculous. Beckett gets beat by Sosa? Oh well, at least Ainge didn't screw up another draft...image
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • At least the yankees are ice cold, so they aren't picking up any ground, but sweeping texas would have given you guys a huge boost.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Stown - I know you've been eyeing getting that post #1,000
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ridiculas losing this series, but at least the Yanks are not doing much better. I cannot wait to get to the All-Star break, I am comfortable with our lead for today but tomorow might be a different story.. These 2-1 losses add up but at least we are not dealing with the Yanks being involved in beer league softball games right now. image
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I think at this point I'm more worried about the Red Sox themselves than I am their competition in the AL East. I don't really see the Blue Jays or the Yankees catching up with them. But I am worried about how this team stacks up against the other premier teams in the AL. Right now I just don't see us going far in the playoffs. If we can only score one run off of Cameron Loe how are we going to score runs against guys like Sabathia, Verlander, Lackey, or Haren?

    I really think there is something physically wrong with David Ortiz right now. His power numbers are way down (only 6 since May 1st) and he's on pace to hitting about half as many homers as he had last year. This bothers me because even though the Red Sox lineup is stacked with guys that can hit, we still need someone that can hit a bomb when we really need one.

    I'm just feeling really disheartened right now and I'm hoping that the July heat will spark something for this team. I want to see the gaudy numbers, the blow-out wins, and the confidence of being a championship quality team return to our guys.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hope Ortiz is OK as well, I look at Pujols having somewhat of an "off" year as well and he seems OK. I would love to see Papi and Manny start to show their power capabilities especially in these 2-1 games where a HR can make all the difference. I would not be comfortable if the playoffs started today either, we do have another half season of baseball to get things on track, I hope we can weather it and hopefully find our groove late summer when it really counts.
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    You guys are right on the money - it seemed like the Sox left a hundred guys on base yesterday in losing 2-1. The chances were there, and again, Tavarez does a nice job, but gets no run support. Losing low scoring games to the Texas Rangers just doesn't make sense.

    Ortiz has been so good over the past several years, that we expect him to hit walk-off HR's in every AB now. Of course, he can't do that - and his numbers this season are still great, but I agree that he isn't getting the big base hit in key situations as often as he used to.
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  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    Out of 13 homers for David Ortiz, 10 of them have been hit on the road. His last Fenway home run was April 21st. Maybe there's nothing physically wrong with him, but perhaps there's something mental happening? Maybe he just feels terrible that his good buddy Lugo is such an albatross? Maybe opposing pitchers have figured something out like pitching him away? Maybe it's just been bad luck so far?

  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    From my posting on June 24th:



    << <i>The Good: Beckett, Papelbon, Varitek, and another Yankee loss.

    The Bad: Lugo.

    How much longer is Francona going to give this guy to pull his average back over the Mendoza line when Alex Cora is playing great defense and hitting a very respectable .287? I know that Francona said that the Red Sox's best chance of winning is with Lugo's bat in the lineup but this is really starting to look like a failed acquisition. Maybe there's some kind of Curse of the Nomar going on here? >>



    Okay, for some time now I've been getting a little paranoid . . . we keep writing stuff on this message board and then I see our very comments echoed in the national media. I'm pretty sure that the smarter sports writers and broadcasters are scanning these hallowed pages for the insight that only we can provide. And now I have "proof." In this case, I'm referring to my comment about the Curse of the Nomar. Now today, on CBS Sportsline, I read the following article (sorry it's so long):

    Approach any Red Sox fan and mention the day July 31, 2004. Does it ring a bell? Let me help refresh your memory. Think trading deadline and disgruntled star ... There you go. You got it.

    For all those still left out in the blue, that date is significant in Red Sox history because it happened to be the day that long-time shortstop Nomar Garciaparra was dealt to the Cubs. It ended his nine-year stay in Beantown. Why I am bringing this up? Well, numerous Fantasy owners have asked about current Red Sox shortstop Julio Lugo and his abysmal 2007 campaign. So it got me thinking, is there a new curse brewing in Boston? Ever since Nomar left town, the Red Sox have had a revolving door at shortstop.

    Garciaparra played in 38 games with the Sox in 2004 due to injuries. He suffered a leg injury in spring training and the rumors circled that Garciaparra's slow recovery had to do with his unhappiness with the front office. While Nomar rested up, the team brought in Pokey Reese. Not a good move. After having a few good seasons with the Reds and then two awful ones with the Pirates, the Red Sox believed Reese would be able to turn his career around in Boston. He played in 96 games, hit .221 and struck out 60 times. He had an on-base percentage of .271.

    Red Sox brass traded Nomar mid-summer and filled the hole by acquiring Orlando Cabrera. He played 58 games that summer for Boston, hit .294 with six homers and 31 RBI. Boston had found their replacement for Garciaparra. Too bad the they let him sign with the Angels after helping them break their long World Series drought.

    No worries. The Red Sox let Cabrera walk and signed former Cardinals SS Edgar Renteria. He was coming off a six-year stretch with the Cardinals in which he averaged 12 homers and 75 RBI per season. He was also a threat to steal bases. Renteria's stay in the American League lasted one unfulfilling season. He made a career-high 30 errors, while hitting just .276 with eight homers and 70 RBI. And for the first time in his 10-year career, he stole less than 10 bases in a season.

    See you later Edgar, hello Alex Gonzalez. He never hit for a great average during his eight-year career with the Marlins, but he showed at times that he possessed great pop in his bat. It was not evident with Boston. While he had a great year in the field, he went on to hit just .255 with nine homers and 50 RBI. After all those prosperous offensive years with Nomar, despite a great glove, Gonzalez's bat wasn't going to appease the Boston faithful. He signed with the Reds in the offseason and look at him now. He has 12 homers and 35 RBI through 70 games.

    Oh and let's not forget, Red Sox management shipped Hanley Ramirez to Florida in a trade that brought Josh Beckett in return. Beckett has been great on the hill, but Ramirez is tearing the cover off the ball for the Marlins.

    We have arrived at the Lugo era, and if he doesn't improve soon, he might be on his way out of Boston for a case of Sam Adams beer. Lugo is currently riding a 0-for-32 slump. His average has dipped below the Mendoza Line (.190), and he has quickly been dropped from leadoff hitter to the dreaded nine-hole. He has never hit over .300 in his career and had just 68 career homers coming into this season. His Fantasy value was elevated at the beginning of the season because he was expected to be the place setter for the likes of David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez and J.D. Drew. At this point, I'd rather trot my own mother out at short for the Red Sox because she can't be any worse. Right now, Lugo's Fantasy value is at an extreme low. I would advise Fantasy owners to hold on to Lugo, pray for a little hot streak and then trade him before he costs you a championship.

    I also have some advice for Red Sox SS prospect Jed Lowrie, who is currently hitting .304 with Double-A Portland -- run away. Get as far away from the Red Sox organization as you can. Don't get sucked into what is becoming the 'Black Hole' at shortstop. The Curse of the Nomar is alive and well!
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725
    I image Ellsbury. Dude can flat out fly. Scoring from 2nd on that wild pitch was a thing of beauty.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,490 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I image Ellsbury. Dude can flat out fly. Scoring from 2nd on that wild pitch was a thing of beauty. >>



    too bad he isn't a shortstop image
  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Article above omits the fact that Lowell came with Beckett. HRam is a beast, but I'd do the trade again. Probably do the Arroyo/Willy Mo again too (but barely). Wish we kept OC though - having a heckuva year this year. Probably Trot and a yougster like Ellsbury or Pena would have been much better than Drew too. Theo has been right more than wrong, but he has definitely been wrong too.
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    I just skimmed that article, but forget that "curse of the Nomar" bs - getting rid of Nomar was one of the key factors in that 2004 team going on to become a special team that won the WS (and gave us a series for the ages against the Yanks). Nomar, by all accounts, was a clubhouse cancer at that point, and he was nursing 1001 injuries and not giving 100% effort (while mostly sulking on the bench). I liked Nomar for a long time, but it was time for him to go. I agree though - we should have kept Cabrera.
    image
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree about what Jerry says about Nomar, we dealt him and won a World Series! The SS position has been ugly for sure but the bottom line is we are fine, We are not a bunch of "idiots" but I like this team better than '04 and our chances are just as good if not better to nail down a championship at this point if we can get hot again like we were in April and May, we weathered a tough June with the Yankees surging but we are at 10+ games again. I dont think it will matter if Lugo comes around or not as far as hitting goes, we have enough cogs in the wheel to overcome his lack of hitting. I think the breakl will do us good, again Manny and Papi are too proven to not put up decent #'s. Ellisbury was great to watch last night, great win.
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>We have arrived at the Lugo era, and if he doesn't improve soon, he might be on his way out of Boston for a case of Sam Adams beer. >>



    The Sox would make that trade in a heartbeat, and probably pay $2m per of his salary on top of that!
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,604 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>We have arrived at the Lugo era, and if he doesn't improve soon, he might be on his way out of Boston for a case of Sam Adams beer. >>



    The Sox would make that trade in a heartbeat, and probably pay $2m per of his salary on top of that! >>




    It would have to Sammy Light as far as Im concerned....
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    I'll take a Sam Adams if you guys are handing them out - it's almost the 4th anyway. image

    But, I will make an interesting prediction right now - Lugo snaps out of it. And soon. Did you notice last night during the game, when Lugo came to bat in the 7th inning, that the Fenway fans were chanting - "Let's go Lugo!" to try and get him going? It was a classy gesture by the fans in attendance, considering that he has been basically 0-for-June, and had that terrible base running blunder on Saturday night. (Contrast this with the way Yankee fans treated ARod for almost two years, and his numbers were nowhere as bad as Lugo's!) But I really think he's too good to not start hitting. I bet he comes around before we know it.

    Then again, I also have been singing the praises of Coco Crisp for the last few years, and only recently has that worked out!
    image
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,831 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>But, I will make an interesting prediction right now - Lugo snaps out of it. And soon. Did you notice last night during the game, when Lugo came to bat in the 7th inning, that the Fenway fans were chanting - "Let's go Lugo!" to try and get him going? It was a classy gesture by the fans in attendance, considering that he has been basically 0-for-June, and had that terrible base running blunder on Saturday night. >>



    I did hear that -- would have been cool if it worked!!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,490 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'll take a Sam Adams if you guys are handing them out - it's almost the 4th anyway. image

    But, I will make an interesting prediction right now - Lugo snaps out of it. And soon. Did you notice last night during the game, when Lugo came to bat in the 7th inning, that the Fenway fans were chanting - "Let's go Lugo!" to try and get him going? It was a classy gesture by the fans in attendance, considering that he has been basically 0-for-June, and had that terrible base running blunder on Saturday night. (Contrast this with the way Yankee fans treated ARod for almost two years, and his numbers were nowhere as bad as Lugo's!) But I really think he's too good to not start hitting. I bet he comes around before we know it.

    Then again, I also have been singing the praises of Coco Crisp for the last few years, and only recently has that worked out! >>



    did you notice that as soon as he left the bases loaded the boos started again? How low does Lugo have to go before he sits in favor of Alex Cora for good? .175? .150? Pitchers hit better than Lugo.
  • TheVonTheVon Posts: 2,725


    << <i>did you notice that as soon as he left the bases loaded the boos started again? How low does Lugo have to go before he sits in favor of Alex Cora for good? .175? .150? Pitchers hit better than Lugo. >>



    Yes, they do. A couple weeks ago I posted a list of pitchers with higher averages than Lugo. I am starting to feel bad for the guy. After the crowd was pulling for him and he failed to get another hit I thought for just a second that he might cry. I think if I were Lugo I would start trying to bunt for a base hit. He just needs to snap this 0-for-Fortnight slump somehow, some way.

    I've been wondering, does anyone know what the longest streak without a base hit is?

    I bag on Lugo a lot, but I will say this in his defense. I wouldn't trade him for a case of Sam Adams Light alone. I'd ask for at least a 6-pack of the Sam Adams Cherry Wheat to go with it and a case of another brew to be determined at a later date.
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