Here is the response I received from my Paypal claim:
Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a refund. PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has been noted in the record of the PayPal user you reported. If we find this user has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status of this complaint.
Paypal sometimes puts not as described complaints such as this on hold, meaning they can be reopened if the seller receives similar complaints from other parties. I don't think they tell the buyer this, though.
Also, when they do investigate NAD complaints, they generally require an "expert's" opinion to back up the buyer's claim. So it would probably be best for those of you with sealed packs to send them to Steve Hart before filing a complaint.
<< <i>The most important aspect of this dialogue this evening and the spirit of Lee's inquiry is to insure that the process cease - i.e. any future rips by Gary - until this is sufficiently cleared up.
No one should pass final judgement on this incident until Gary is given the opportunity to fairly and justly defend his position.
Having said that...
Gary - why all the deletions?
mike >>
Mike, I like you -- but sometimes you are too political for your own good. This fraud is OBVIOUSLY guilty and should be made to pay.
<< <i>The most important aspect of this dialogue this evening and the spirit of Lee's inquiry is to insure that the process cease - i.e. any future rips by Gary - until this is sufficiently cleared up.
No one should pass final judgement on this incident until Gary is given the opportunity to fairly and justly defend his position.
Having said that...
Gary - why all the deletions?
mike >>
Mike, As always... VERY professional.
DAMN, don't you ever get pi$$ed off.
Mary >>
Mary
Didn't you catch the thread with me and itsinthegrade?
Am I the only wondering why he didn't set up a separate ebay account for buying wrappers/boxes? If you're dealing in unopened material, that's probably not a good way to assure your customers.
<< <i>Am I the only wondering why he didn't set up a separate ebay account for buying wrappers/boxes? If you're dealing in unopened material, that's probably not a good way to assure your customers. >>
Let's face it, Gary doesn't appear to be the sharpest "tool" in the drawer
<< <i>Am I the only wondering why he didn't set up a separate ebay account for buying wrappers/boxes? If you're dealing in unopened material, that's probably not a good way to assure your customers. >>
This is about as close as he has come to a bright bulb!
<< <i>The most important aspect of this dialogue this evening and the spirit of Lee's inquiry is to insure that the process cease - i.e. any future rips by Gary - until this is sufficiently cleared up.
No one should pass final judgement on this incident until Gary is given the opportunity to fairly and justly defend his position.
Having said that...
Gary - why all the deletions?
mike >>
Mike, I like you -- but sometimes you are too political for your own good. This fraud is OBVIOUSLY guilty and should be made to pay. >>
jm
I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not tryin' to be political but rather fair, compassionate and just.
It's important to maintain a process that is both honorable and dignified - since the dignity of our board is what we'll be left with when the smoke clears.
Proving he did anything is hard enough - jurisdiction is complicated - evidence will be a factor - witnesses are all over the map....
In the end - if Gary leaves - the only thing left is us. I want outsiders to say - this forum has decorum.
Perhaps some money is lost - but never our dignity.
I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not tryin' to be political but rather fair, compassionate and just.
It's important to maintain a process that is both honorable and dignified - since the dignity of our board is what we'll be left with when the smoke clears.
Proving he did anything is hard enough - jurisdiction is complicated - evidence will be a factor - witnesses are all over the map....
In the end - if Gary leaves - the only thing left is us. I want outsiders to say - this forum has decorum.
Perhaps some money is lost - but never our dignity.
mike "
-----------------------------------
I agree with the above, tempered with a large degree of skepticism regarding future endeavors such as this.
One important point -- this is not a court of law and "innocent until proven guity" has no bearing or jurisdiction here. I have been hung out to dry and called a fraud numerous times on here without even a scrap of evidence and -- ironically -- you did not come in on your white horse making broad, sweeping calls for "decorum."
Please don't accuse Jennifer Wilbanks of any involvment in this activity! She, like myself only have affinity to this event only by buying into an unknown package!
I have not been in any of the rips (although I would have bought a box of 84 topps football Thank you for the heads up). Shouldn't people try to go through paypal or there credit card company and get there money back if they have been cheated. Wouldn't this constitute item not as described (searched packs).
I still believe Gary should be given the opportunity to defend himself.
What bothers most is that he isnt. And the worst yet, his actions are making him look very bad without any explaination. There are some who may immediately jump on him but he has been given then chance to answer and he isnt stepping up to the plate.
My sincere condolences to all who have seemingly been ripped. The mere fact of his purchasing empties and wrappers that coincide is damning enough for me. My heart has been breaking reading about the 1978 case since that was the first year I bought cards and wanted to get in. Money is just too tight right now and I had been burned last time on a 1977 wax BB and 1980 cello BB and try to convince your wife that about $600 later you can try again with someone else and be sure. Steve is as good as gold to me and I will never buy unopened from anyone else again. I hope you can all recover some of your moneys, this is just awful. And deleting posts - how about that for a guilty conscience? UUggghhh. What a world. Rich
Just a random thought - did Topps wax packs for the years in question have obvious enough sequencing that someone could open a few packs from a box and tell where the "money cards" would be (sorta like '89 UD)?
I come back from dinner and this thread has 8 new pages ....
Some answers from posts I've seen:
1. Gary went from Fresno, CA (he live in Clovis, a suburb) to Chicago to attend the 75 mini bust b/c he was already planning on a trip. He didn't fly out there JUST for the bust --- but made it a "tour stop" on a several state buying spree. This info comes from his posts around the time of the bust.
2. I have been involved in ALL of his rips. I do not personally believe Gary is sending out 100% resealed or non-legit packs out to the participants. The reason I say this is b/c I just got my '77 baseball pack back from PSA --- and it graded a PSA 8. This pack was from a Gary-sponsored rip.
This thread is a sociology class on "mob mentatility" --- truly an amazing thing to read and watch develop.
I don't know if Gary is innocent or guilty here. Though, the proof continues to mount towards guilt.
-Tom
EDITED TO ADD: I haven't been involved in all of this rips --- but 4 of them I believe (2 football, 2 baseball)
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Comments
<< <i>Al Cowlings >>
he's not talkin about OJ!
My Auctions
BIG DOG T-SHIRT
Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.
PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal user you reported. If we find this
user has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.
Paypal sometimes puts not as described complaints such as this on hold, meaning they can be reopened if the seller receives similar complaints from other parties. I don't think they tell the buyer this, though.
Also, when they do investigate NAD complaints, they generally require an "expert's" opinion to back up the buyer's claim. So it would probably be best for those of you with sealed packs to send them to Steve Hart before filing a complaint.
Who is that sexy guy on the left?
<< <i>Who is that sexy guy on the left?
i assume you're talking about my avatar..
<< <i>Who is that sexy guy on the left?
How you doin?
My Auctions
<< <i>The most important aspect of this dialogue this evening and the spirit of Lee's inquiry is to insure that the process cease - i.e. any future rips by Gary - until this is sufficiently cleared up.
No one should pass final judgement on this incident until Gary is given the opportunity to fairly and justly defend his position.
Having said that...
Gary - why all the deletions?
mike >>
Mike, I like you -- but sometimes you are too political for your own good. This fraud is OBVIOUSLY guilty and should be made to pay.
<< <i>
<< <i>The most important aspect of this dialogue this evening and the spirit of Lee's inquiry is to insure that the process cease - i.e. any future rips by Gary - until this is sufficiently cleared up.
No one should pass final judgement on this incident until Gary is given the opportunity to fairly and justly defend his position.
Having said that...
Gary - why all the deletions?
mike >>
Mike, As always... VERY professional.
DAMN, don't you ever get pi$$ed off.
Mary >>
Mary
Didn't you catch the thread with me and itsinthegrade?
Who are the other two guys?
<< <i>BIG DOG t-shirt
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is that sexy guy on the left?
How you doin? >>
i'd hit it..
<< <i>Am I the only wondering why he didn't set up a separate ebay account for buying wrappers/boxes? If you're dealing in unopened material, that's probably not a good way to assure your customers. >>
Let's face it, Gary doesn't appear to be the sharpest "tool" in the drawer
PUN INTENDED.
<< <i>Am I the only wondering why he didn't set up a separate ebay account for buying wrappers/boxes? If you're dealing in unopened material, that's probably not a good way to assure your customers. >>
This is about as close as he has come to a bright bulb!
<< <i>
<< <i>The most important aspect of this dialogue this evening and the spirit of Lee's inquiry is to insure that the process cease - i.e. any future rips by Gary - until this is sufficiently cleared up.
No one should pass final judgement on this incident until Gary is given the opportunity to fairly and justly defend his position.
Having said that...
Gary - why all the deletions?
mike >>
Mike, I like you -- but sometimes you are too political for your own good. This fraud is OBVIOUSLY guilty and should be made to pay. >>
jm
I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not tryin' to be political but rather fair, compassionate and just.
It's important to maintain a process that is both honorable and dignified - since the dignity of our board is what we'll be left with when the smoke clears.
Proving he did anything is hard enough - jurisdiction is complicated - evidence will be a factor - witnesses are all over the map....
In the end - if Gary leaves - the only thing left is us. I want outsiders to say - this forum has decorum.
Perhaps some money is lost - but never our dignity.
mike
<< <i>Who are the other two guys?
<< <i>BIG DOG t-shirt
The dapper gentleman on the left is me, Steve Hart is in the middle and Gary - 80sJunkie is on the right.
My Auctions
I know this is serious, but pandrews you are tooooooo funny.
<< <i>I know this is serious, but pandrews you are tooooooo funny.
I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not tryin' to be political but rather fair, compassionate and just.
It's important to maintain a process that is both honorable and dignified - since the dignity of our board is what we'll be left with when the smoke clears.
Proving he did anything is hard enough - jurisdiction is complicated - evidence will be a factor - witnesses are all over the map....
In the end - if Gary leaves - the only thing left is us. I want outsiders to say - this forum has decorum.
Perhaps some money is lost - but never our dignity.
mike "
-----------------------------------
I agree with the above, tempered with a large degree of skepticism regarding future endeavors such as this.
One important point -- this is not a court of law and "innocent until proven guity" has no bearing or jurisdiction here. I have been hung out to dry and called a fraud numerous times on here without even a scrap of evidence and -- ironically -- you did not come in on your white horse making broad, sweeping calls for "decorum."
Just my opinion, my thoughts.
TGF Collection
TGF Sports
Regards,
The dapper gentleman on the left is me, Steve Hart is in the middle and Gary - 80sJunkie is on the right. >>
Where is this at?
I still believe Gary should be given the opportunity to defend himself.
What bothers most is that he isnt. And the worst yet, his actions are making him look very bad without any explaination. There are some who may immediately jump on him but he has been given then chance to answer and he isnt stepping up to the plate.
<< <i>The dapper gentleman on the left is me, Steve Hart is in the middle and Gary - 80sJunkie is on the right. >>
Where is this at? >>
At BBCE's warehouse when we bought the 1975 Mini Case.
My Auctions
<< <i>I know this is serious, but pandrews you are tooooooo funny.
im sexier than Zef, too..
<< <i>
<< <i>I know this is serious, but pandrews you are tooooooo funny.
im sexier than Zef, too.. >>
I call BS. The only pictures of "yourself" have been some black dude with bug eyes, and a drummer in a metal band.
My Auctions
Rich
My Auctions
DOLLA BILL, YALL
PERRY!
<< <i>
PERRY! >>
<< <i>
That is actually how I picture you.
My Auctions
<< <i>That is actually how I picture you.
like i said, im too sexy..
Some answers from posts I've seen:
1. Gary went from Fresno, CA (he live in Clovis, a suburb) to Chicago to attend the 75 mini bust b/c he was already planning on a trip. He didn't fly out there JUST for the bust --- but made it a "tour stop" on a several state buying spree. This info comes from his posts around the time of the bust.
2. I have been involved in ALL of his rips. I do not personally believe Gary is sending out 100% resealed or non-legit packs out to the participants. The reason I say this is b/c I just got my '77 baseball pack back from PSA --- and it graded a PSA 8. This pack was from a Gary-sponsored rip.
This thread is a sociology class on "mob mentatility" --- truly an amazing thing to read and watch develop.
I don't know if Gary is innocent or guilty here. Though, the proof continues to mount towards guilt.
-Tom
EDITED TO ADD: I haven't been involved in all of this rips --- but 4 of them I believe (2 football, 2 baseball)
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
julen
RIP GURU
<< <i>This thread has really cut into my porn browsing this evening.
Forget about resealed packs, cutting into someone's porn browsing time is unforgiveable!!