<< <i>I was going through my cards last night with gloves on to look at them one more time. My 1986 cards were all centered 65-35 or better, but my two star cards Elway and Dolphins team card are miscut, and Buster Rhymes too. Is that normal? That two cards would be miscut while the rest would be normal? Or should the whole pack be miscut? I also go doubles of the same card in the same pack? Does that happen? How is the collation process work at Topps?
>>
it looks like you have a few miscut cards in that pack.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>i just noticed the pics from the football rip heres the truth the 777880and 84 box did not come from steve. we knew steve did not have a 77 and 80 box when i placed the order he was out of 78 also. so what did i do paid more for the 78 box somewhere else then steve sold them so i ponied up extra for that damn 78 box
edited to give the trashers more trash >>
i thought at first he was only missing one box, now its turned into four boxes. where did those boxes com from and why wasnt that mentioned ever before. and what about the 84 box. you have never said that he was out of those at all...not even in this post.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
in the 70's/80's BB rip wasn't Gary the one who pulled the 82' topps Ripken rookie? I remember a nice scan of that card with someone saying it was fitting the organizer of the rip was the one who pulled that card.
<< <i>no one is going to log onto ebay thru a link. >>
Pat
I think one is protected. When you go to the link - if you're not logged on ebay - ya can't see anything - but even if ya log on and see the info. People can't view your personal link - it's in you're own personal computer.
It's like if you link a picture from your own "My Pics" - you will see it on this forum but no one else will since it's it's not internet hosted.
That's my understanding - if I have it wrong - how else can anyone post a link to an auction without endangering their own account?
Not that this can be used as evidence, but I just find it interesting that in none of the rips were cellos or rack packs involved. Most board members agree that racks are the best way to go in terms of condition of the cards inside, so it makes sense that those are what we should rip. Racks are also impossible to reseal, and cellos are very difficult. I find it curious that nowhere in our rips or Gary's purchases or sales do rack packs or cello packs make an appearance.
My first comment on the whole incident. Like what my father used to tell me: "Never buy baseball cards from someone who sells beer bongs on the side...."
Funny thing guys - I initiated the latest football rip and was cut off by Gary because I wasnt involved in other rips. NOW WE KNOW WHY!
Check out his post on my originial thread link at the bottom.
Tuesday January 23, 2007 10:58 PM
Hello Chris put me down for the smaller lot and take me off the full lot list. Also I know for a fact steve will most likely give us a nice discount off of that total so I would call him and negotiate and we could all save a little
Plus no offense Chris have you been in on any of the other rips. Dont take this the wrong way just haven't seen you around much or know you very well and trusting someone with 6k is a big deal. I know I'm not the only one with this on there mind. I wont say who else Maybe you could enlighten us a bit about yourself. Again i hope you dont take this the wrong way. I just had a few people PM me with valid concerns and Voiced there opinions
------------------------- EMAIL ME wanted unopened 70s 80s wax material cases prefered also psa 78 and 83 o pee chee
Edited: Tuesday January 23, 2007 at 11:10 PM by 80sJunkie
<< <i>Funny thing guys - I initiated the latest football rip and was cut off by Gary because I wasnt involved in other rips. NOW WE KNOW WHY!
Check out his post on my originial thread link at the bottom.
Tuesday January 23, 2007 10:58 PM
Hello Chris put me down for the smaller lot and take me off the full lot list. Also I know for a fact steve will most likely give us a nice discount off of that total so I would call him and negotiate and we could all save a little
Plus no offense Chris have you been in on any of the other rips. Dont take this the wrong way just haven't seen you around much or know you very well and trusting someone with 6k is a big deal. I know I'm not the only one with this on there mind. I wont say who else Maybe you could enlighten us a bit about yourself. Again i hope you dont take this the wrong way. I just had a few people PM me with valid concerns and Voiced there opinions
------------------------- EMAIL ME wanted unopened 70s 80s wax material cases prefered also psa 78 and 83 o pee chee
Edited: Tuesday January 23, 2007 at 11:10 PM by 80sJunkie
I have no problem if people had a problem, but why not go directly to you?? Also 80sJunkie has not been on here for years, you have actually been here longer, just not as many posts. Why should that hurt your credability??
I would have no problem organizing a football rip . Again dont want to step on chris toes but i think a poll like i did with the baseball rip to see what we all want for a football rip would work. Ive put a few rips together now and pretty much know what to expect and how to handle it. No offense chris but I really think the way you are trying to set it up with big lots and small lots wont get enough people signed up plus cellos are a bad idea most of us rip looking for gradeable stuff and cellos are junk for that. Another tip just because steve doesnt have it on his website check da cardworld there a viable and just as trustworthy when steves out. Plus usually steve can give them a call and get us a good price from them when hes out of something regards Gary 80sj
edit to say- While cellos are in fact a little worse than wax on average, I have gotten many, many high grade cards out of cello boxes. To call them "junk" is truly an overstatement.
<< <i>Thanks Lee! At least someone understands coincidence from reality. I cannot personally believe I am still up at 4:00AM GMT, but I am. Thank goodness I have a work-out-of-my-home-office-sales-job with HP!
Cheers, MrG >>
Funny, how this post shows that it was made at "MY" 7:57 P.M. So I will round up to "MY" 8:00 P.M. Funny thing, my fiance is in London right now as I speak, and I talked to her last night, and will do so tonight, and there is ONLY a 5 hour difference. I was also there on vacation in January 2006, and unless land masses moved further apart from what I understand geographically, I KNOW there is ONLY a 5 hour difference from where I reside in the Detroit area. Although I was educated at a public school, I think I can handle simple addition, that would put the time of your post at 1 A.M. GMT, but you said "4:00 A.M." I cannot honestly phathom that "IF" you were in the UK, you cannot get your time correct, and I surely hope you are NOT that stupid, to where you cannot tell time!
Some people have you in their "suspect" radar, and do not say I am jumping on the bandwagon of a mob mentality, because almost EVERYone on this board hates me, at least those who I have argued with. Even though I enjoy to hate back, one thing I hate more, is a scammer and a thief.
I was not in any of the rips that took place, was considering a few to some degree, and I am glad I did not pull the plug. This is the type of crap that knocked me out of the hobby back in the early 90s.
Hopefully, some of you get what I am saying here! >>
Just for clarification, I have my theories/conspiracies/etc about MrG but I honestly believe that he and Gary are NOT the same.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Thanks Lee! At least someone understands coincidence from reality. I cannot personally believe I am still up at 4:00AM GMT, but I am. Thank goodness I have a work-out-of-my-home-office-sales-job with HP!
Cheers, MrG >>
Funny, how this post shows that it was made at "MY" 7:57 P.M. So I will round up to "MY" 8:00 P.M. Funny thing, my fiance is in London right now as I speak, and I talked to her last night, and will do so tonight, and there is ONLY a 5 hour difference. I was also there on vacation in January 2006, and unless land masses moved further apart from what I understand geographically, I KNOW there is ONLY a 5 hour difference from where I reside in the Detroit area. Although I was educated at a public school, I think I can handle simple addition, that would put the time of your post at 1 A.M. GMT, but you said "4:00 A.M." I cannot honestly phathom that "IF" you were in the UK, you cannot get your time correct, and I surely hope you are NOT that stupid, to where you cannot tell time!
Some people have you in their "suspect" radar, and do not say I am jumping on the bandwagon of a mob mentality, because almost EVERYone on this board hates me, at least those who I have argued with. Even though I enjoy to hate back, one thing I hate more, is a scammer and a thief.
I was not in any of the rips that took place, was considering a few to some degree, and I am glad I did not pull the plug. This is the type of crap that knocked me out of the hobby back in the early 90s.
Hopefully, some of you get what I am saying here! >>
Just for clarification, I have my theories/conspiracies/etc about MrG but I honestly believe that he and Gary are NOT the same. >>
I edited the orginal post I made, because I read it before signing in, making the time incorrect, so the post I made was not correct, should have realised you would be quick on the trigger.....lol!
I'm seriously an outsider looking in ,did not rip, but am deeply troubled as to the impact on the collectors of this board. Trust has had a deep cut , ripped into its fabric. I collect cards as do most on here, but now it may turn to a less shared versus an opened hobby. Who do we trust ? I've heard it said years ago, that the internet will allow us to not be involved with people we don't want to be with. So now we will have even more lurkers and not contributors. Damage has been done, there's no doubt about it.
One question has bugged me, since last night's great reading. I remember reading that Gary said he missed the shipment on some particular day, which was going to delay the sending out of member packages until Monday or Tuesday. With an order of that dollor amount, a verified signature with a time and date will absolutely be required. Someone knows (maybe Steve Hart's company) , when that event occurred. I think that its very IMPORTANT to the credability of Gary. Alot of time would've been needed to sort or reorganize all or some of the orders.Has this been addressed ?
I think that once we get to the true bottom of this , for better or worse, we will be the better.
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
Guys... it's an 8-hour difference between the west coast and London... 5 hours from the east coast... MrG first chimed in a 9:37 pm EST which is 6:37 pm PST and 2:37 am GMT.
I also don't believe that MrG and 80s could be the same guy... but they *may* know each other better than it *seems*.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Guys... it's an 8-hour difference between the west coast and London... 5 hours from the east coast... MrG first chimed in a 9:37 pm EST which is 6:37 pm PST and 2:37 am GMT.
I also don't believe that MrG and 80s could be the same guy... but they *may* know each other better than it *seems*. >>
I clarified that, and my apologies to MrG if he reads this!
<< <i>I'm seriously an outsider looking in ,did not rip, but am deeply troubled as to the impact on the collectors of this board. Trust has had a deep cut , ripped into its fabric. I collect cards as do most on here, but now it may turn to a less shared versus an opened hobby. Who do we trust ? I've heard it said years ago, that the internet will allow us to not be involved with people we don't want to be with. So now we will have even more lurkers and not contributors. Damage has been done, there's no doubt about it.
One question has bugged me, since last night's great reading. I remember reading that Gary said he missed the shipment on some particular day, which was going to delay the sending out of member packages until Monday or Tuesday. With an order of that dollor amount, a verified signature with a time and date will absolutely be required. Someone knows (maybe Steve Hart's company) , when that event occurred. I think that its very IMPORTANT to the credability of Gary. Alot of time would've been needed to sort or reorganize all or some of the orders.Has this been addressed ?
I think that once we get to the true bottom of this , for better or worse, we will be the better. >>
Think thats why Steve took all the pictures showing the clock with the last rip? Hmmmmm......
I don't think Steve showed the clock for that reason. Even if he did that proves nothing. A clock can easily be adjusted. Besides, his integrity is intact and he doesn't need to prove anything to us.
It's the fact that he recommended not going with cellos coupled with his explanation. He didn't use your argument (very logical) that there are 36 packs in a wax box- instead he elected to call cellos crap in terms of condition, which isn't completely true. I also prefaced my statement by saying it certainly isn't evidence. While it may be somewhat of a stretch, everything Gary has said regarding pack rips up until now is relevant and should be taken into consideration.
Of course it's possible that Gary is innocent. However, with the evidence that has piled up and Gary's answers....... If you're looking for video of Gary resealing packs himself, it's not going to happen. We're talking about someone doing something with no witnesses in their own home. Any trial lawyer will tell you it's pretty much impossible to prove something without a shadow of a doubt unless there are credible witnesses, video/audio, or a confession. What the board members are looking at is the preponderance of the evidence.
His response to why he was buying wrappers, boxes, and singles doesn't strike you as wierd? All the coincidences in terms of what he bought and what we're opening don't strike you as strange? What reputable dealer goes around buying wrappers, empty boxes, and ungradable singles from specific sets? The fact that he lied about the 86 Fleer box doesn't hurt his credibility in your eyes? I'm not sure exactly what kind of proof you're looking for blindflyer, but if you need to see him resealing with your own eyes, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Yes good cards have been pulled. If Gary did something shady, then I really can't attest as to what he resealed or replaced. But even if it's just 5 packs out of a box, the rip is tainted because someone got ripped off. Just because MrG pulls a Payton RC, doesn't make it alright that my pack was resealed. Also, it should be said that anyone running this type of scam would be absolutely stupid to pull out all of the good cards, as we would catch on quick.
<< <i>Gary *could* actually be innocent of tampering with our packs. Has anyone actually considered this? >>
Tom
It's only the most important fact of this whole conversation.
The rest - ebay background, business models, buying habits, etc. - is just circumstantial background noise IMO.
I was accused of being on a (white) "high horse" of sorts - may be?
But I know one thing - when I was attacked a while back - I felt awful. I would like to extend the same empathy to Gary.
He has a lot a 'splainin' to do - that's true. Some have had fun with it - humor/comedy always comes out of adversity - dark humor is part of life - so I wouldn't attribute anything more to that.
Here's a very interesting occurrence that 80s needs to explain... and only the truth will be acceptable as FedEx has indisputable records of delivery and signature sign-off.
The posts below come from the 79/80 BK rip thread... he posts at 11:00 pm on a Saturday that he did not get his delivery that day, maybe Monday... OK... Saturday FedEx is prohibitively expensive service for a heavy carton like a case of cards, but maybe the sender used it anyway? Someone should contact the sender (was it BBCE?) and get the manifest details.
Nonetheless, he claimed the next day, Sunday, that he got a slip from the FedEx guy indicating that a new delivery attempt would be made on Tuesday... OK... where did the slip come from? FedEx NEVER delivers on Sunday and he claimed to have no delivery on Saturday... even so, let's take his statements at face value (see below)... FedEx always delivers on Mondays, especially if it was a premium Saturday delivery. Why would they then wait until Tuesday to attempt another delivery? This series of events needs to be clarified by 80s... because if he did get the deliver on Friday or Saturday he was left with a lot of unaccounted for time until Tuesday to do what he wanted with that case and no one on these boards would even have known it was in his possession.
<< <i>It's the fact that he recommended not going with cellos coupled with his explanation. He didn't use your argument (very logical) that there are 36 packs in a wax box- instead he elected to call cellos crap in terms of condition, which isn't completely true. I also prefaced my statement by saying it certainly isn't evidence. While it may be somewhat of a stretch, everything Gary has said regarding pack rips up until now is relevant and should be taken into consideration.
Of course it's possible that Gary is innocent. However, with the evidence that has piled up and Gary's answers....... If you're looking for video of Gary resealing packs himself, it's not going to happen. We're talking about someone doing something with no witnesses in their own home. Any trial lawyer will tell you it's pretty much impossible to prove something without a shadow of a doubt unless there are credible witnesses, video/audio, or a confession. What the board members are looking at is the preponderance of the evidence.
His response to why he was buying wrappers, boxes, and singles doesn't strike you as wierd? All the coincidences in terms of what he bought and what we're opening don't strike you as strange? What reputable dealer goes around buying wrappers, empty boxes, and ungradable singles from specific sets? The fact that he lied about the 86 Fleer box doesn't hurt his credibility in your eyes? I'm not sure exactly what kind of proof you're looking for blindflyer, but if you need to see him resealing with your own eyes, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Yes good cards have been pulled. If Gary did something shady, then I really can't attest as to what he resealed or replaced. But even if it's just 5 packs out of a box, the rip is tainted because someone got ripped off. Just because MrG pulls a Payton RC, doesn't make it alright that my pack was resealed. Also, it should be said that anyone running this type of scam would be absolutely stupid to pull out all of the good cards, as we would catch on quick.
Lee >>
Lee,
Well said --- and you're right ... we will likely never have 100% proof.
His explanation, while weak, is plausible: --- sell "kits" to unscrupulos people on ebay. Take the empty boxes from the pack rips and combine them with wrappers, lots etc and resell.
That said, not having a single past auction reflect the sale of one of these "kits" pokes a huge hole in that defense. When was he going to start selling these "kits" and why hadn't he already?
I stand by my original accusation: --- Gary "replaced" some of Steve's boxes with boxes from other <less reputable and stellar> sources. Zef's picture work seems to prove this.
His ebay purchases are all circumstantial. What is concrete are the cards and packs the participants have in fact received from Gary. My pack came back graded okay. Star cards have been pulled by people other than Gary (the Montana RC in the recent football rip is a BEAUTY).
Maybe he is resealing only 5-10 packs.... but I think the answer will come when a bunch of the participants receive their pack grades. If we see a lot of reseals/alterations, we can feel confident that those packs did not come directly from Steve and can assume that Gary either swapped them or altered them before giving them to us. However, if those packs come back clean (as mine did), a bunch of people on this board need to eat some serious, seroius crow b/c Gary is innocent.
-Tom
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
I just want one answer from Gary regarding these allegations that I can say to myself as a logically thinking person: "Well, that makes sense". It's been over 16 hours since he's been aware of all this and I have yet to hear something that makes sense, or see a picture of his bartop or collage for which he was buying all the wrappers, which he very well might be trying to put together as we speak.
To be honest, I'm not sure how much farther this can go cosidering we're never going to have visual or eyewitness proof, and he's never going to fess up if he did it. I see this going around in circles from this point forward. I hope I'm wrong and we reach some type of closure.
<< <i>Here's a very interesting occurrence that 80s needs to explain... and only the truth will be acceptable as FedEx has indisputable records of delivery and signature sign-off.
The posts below come from the 79/80 BK rip thread... he posts at 11:00 pm on a Saturday that he did not get his delivery that day, maybe Monday... OK... Saturday FedEx is prohibitively expensive service for a heavy carton like a case of cards, but maybe the sender used it anyway? Someone should contact the sender (was it BBCE?) and get the manifest details.
Nonetheless, he claimed the next day, Sunday, that he got a slip from the FedEx guy indicating that a new delivery attempt would be made on Tuesday... OK... where did the slip come from? FedEx NEVER delivers on Sunday and he claimed to have no delivery on Saturday... even so, let's take his statements at face value (see below)... FedEx always delivers on Mondays, especially if it was a premium Saturday delivery. Why would they then wait until Tuesday to attempt another delivery? This series of events needs to be clarified by 80s... because if he did get the deliver on Friday or Saturday he was left with a lot of unaccounted for time until Tuesday to do what he wanted with that case and no one on these boards would even have known it was in his possession. >>
Perhaps he assumed it would have been delivered Monday and just didn't read the delivery slip until Sunday?
<< <i>His explanation, while weak, is plausible: --- sell "kits" to unscrupulos people on ebay. Take the empty boxes from the pack rips and combine them with wrappers, lots etc and resell.
That said, not having a single past auction reflect the sale of one of these "kits" pokes a huge hole in that defense. When was he going to start selling these "kits" and why hadn't he already? >>
True BUT he originally said the wrappers were for his bar. Not until recently did he claim the wrappers, cards, etc were for resale.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>It's been over 16 hours since he's been aware of all this and I have yet to hear something that makes sense, or see a picture of his bartop or collage for which he was buying all the wrappers, which he very well might be trying to put together as we speak. >>
So maybe we need to get a video of him actually rubbing his hands over the bartop to prove that the shellac/decoupage isn't wet?
<< <i>I just want one answer from Gary regarding these allegations that I can say to myself as a logically thinking person: "Well, that makes sense". It's been over 16 hours since he's been aware of all this and I have yet to hear something that makes sense, or see a picture of his bartop or collage for which he was buying all the wrappers, which he very well might be trying to put together as we speak.
To be honest, I'm not sure how much farther this can go cosidering we're never going to have visual or eyewitness proof, and he's never going to fess up if he did it. I see this going around in circles from this point forward. I hope I'm wrong and we reach some type of closure.
Lee >>
The bottom line:
He has maintained in multiple posts since this incident his love of the hobby element of his board and his genuity in doing the rips. IF he stands behind that feeling, he will ultimately want to restore credibility. He's gotten to know a lot of folks on here. Disappeaing into the night would ruin his credibility beyond repair. If he really cares about the board and its participants he will sort things out with answers.
We need to give him a chance to do that.
If he chooses to run and hide, we (myself included) will have no choice but to lose all trust for him.
It's been 24 hours since he got run over with a steamroller. Let's see what shakes out over the next few days.... and what shakes out as more packs get returned from PSA or validated by Steve.
-t
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Good call Mikey. Or maybe at least have his dog walk on it or something. But seriously, that "putting it together as we speak" comment was said mostly in jest. Although it's not out of the realm of possibility.
True BUT he originally said the wrappers were for his bar. Not until recently did he claim the wrappers, cards, etc were for resale. >>
My understanding was that his "wrappers for bar" comments only pertained to the 75 minis. The dude claims to have thousands of unopened 70s/80s product (this is well documented). It's very plausible that his bar doesn't' need all of our wrappers or the wrappers he buys on ebay.
I know how I am --- I'd start a project, collect the wrappers ... and procrastinate on ever actually finishing it.
-t
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Unfortunately, I dont think we will ever find out if Gary is truly innocent or guilty or what exactly he could be guilty of other than being unscruplious.
Either way, it does not appear that he can be trusted. This does not mean he is guilty in this instance but past and current actions tells us so.
I would also like to add that everyone in this forum is allowed to voice any concern they wish on this subject. It matters none if they were involved in past rips. They may have considered future ones and it is all part of making this place a good one to be.
He had no reason to lie or post about the 1986 Fleer BB box, as it was totally a different subject. Why would he volunteer an obvious lie (box was the same as the one from ebay, 100%) unless he lies on a consistent basis.
In my life experience, people who like to invent reasons to lie are considered con men.
If he won't come clean with that, he's certainly not going to admit to anything he could be liable for. Money has spoiled alot of good intentions.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Honestly, I am with you... I want to see what is what here....
But again, there is a little TOO much adding up.
I think the likelihood of all (or any) of us having received the cards that were sent from BBCE, is dwindling by the minute.
And is what you propose having happened any better? We, as a group, decide to purchase a box from BBCE for ($300.00). That box is kept, and another is purchased from "somewhere" for ($150.) Where is the extra ($150) going to?
Again, is that any better? We know Steve's stuff is good. That's why we pay the price for it. If a box is being purchased from a known resealer, and then sent to us as good product, what's the difference?
As much as I would like to think it isn't the case, it definitely APPEARS that we, as a group, have been had, in one manner or another.
fmmech is someone I have watched on ebay for some time because of their heavy involvement with 1989 Fleer. They were constantly buying 1989 Fleer cases then a few months later selling them. Opened of course but saying they were unsearched. Yeah right.
And is what you propose having happened any better? We, as a group, decide to purchase a box from BBCE for ($300.00). That box is kept, and another is purchased from "somewhere" for ($150.) Where is the extra ($150) going to?
Again, is that any better? We know Steve's stuff is good. That's why we pay the price for it. If a box is being purchased from a known resealer, and then sent to us as good product, what's the difference? >>
Of course that's no better! Steve has the reputation and respect of the industry. That's why we buy from him and we want to get what we paid for.
I just revert back to it b/c its the only thing I see as proven (via Zefs pictures).
Gary still has a lot of explaing to do.
-Tom
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
My spidey sense told me something was up when he muscled in on Chris's 70's-80's football rip. There was plenty of support for the split lots and no one had any problem with cellos. It's always astounded me how much effort some criminals will put in to defraud people, when the same effort would yield the same or more money in a legitimate pursuit.
Comments
link no work
<< <i>xbaggy:
link no work >>
Log on to ebay and it works fine.
<< <i>I was going through my cards last night with gloves on to look at them one more time. My 1986 cards were all centered 65-35 or better, but my two star cards Elway and Dolphins team card are miscut, and Buster Rhymes too. Is that normal? That two cards would be miscut while the rest would be normal? Or should the whole pack be miscut? I also go doubles of the same card in the same pack? Does that happen? How is the collation process work at Topps?
it looks like you have a few miscut cards in that pack.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>i just noticed the pics from the football rip heres the truth the 777880and 84 box did not come from steve. we knew steve did not have a 77 and 80 box when i placed the order he was out of 78 also. so what did i do paid more for the 78 box somewhere else then steve sold them so i ponied up extra for that damn 78 box
edited to give the trashers more trash >>
i thought at first he was only missing one box, now its turned into four boxes. where did those boxes com from and why wasnt that mentioned ever before. and what about the 84 box. you have never said that he was out of those at all...not even in this post.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>no one is going to log onto ebay thru a link. >>
If your on a https page you will be fine.
Website
<< <i>no one is going to log onto ebay thru a link. >>
Pat
I think one is protected. When you go to the link - if you're not logged on ebay - ya can't see anything - but even if ya log on and see the info. People can't view your personal link - it's in you're own personal computer.
It's like if you link a picture from your own "My Pics" - you will see it on this forum but no one else will since it's it's not internet hosted.
That's my understanding - if I have it wrong - how else can anyone post a link to an auction without endangering their own account?
mike
Wow.
Just.... wow.
Purchasing wrappers, puzzle pieces, stickers???
C'mon man....
I might have been born at night.... But it wasn't last night.
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
Lee
Check out his post on my originial thread link at the bottom.
Tuesday January 23, 2007 10:58 PM
Hello Chris put me down for the smaller lot and take me off the full lot list. Also I know for a fact steve will most likely give us a nice discount off of that total so I would call him and negotiate and we could all save a little
Plus no offense Chris have you been in on any of the other rips. Dont take this the wrong way just haven't seen you around much or know you very well and trusting someone with 6k is a big deal. I know I'm not the only one with this on there mind. I wont say who else Maybe you could enlighten us a bit about yourself. Again i hope you dont take this the wrong way. I just had a few people PM me with valid concerns and Voiced there opinions
-------------------------
EMAIL ME
wanted unopened 70s 80s wax material cases prefered
also psa 78 and 83 o pee chee
Edited: Tuesday January 23, 2007 at 11:10 PM by 80sJunkie
thread
<< <i>Funny thing guys - I initiated the latest football rip and was cut off by Gary because I wasnt involved in other rips. NOW WE KNOW WHY!
Check out his post on my originial thread link at the bottom.
Tuesday January 23, 2007 10:58 PM
Hello Chris put me down for the smaller lot and take me off the full lot list. Also I know for a fact steve will most likely give us a nice discount off of that total so I would call him and negotiate and we could all save a little
Plus no offense Chris have you been in on any of the other rips. Dont take this the wrong way just haven't seen you around much or know you very well and trusting someone with 6k is a big deal. I know I'm not the only one with this on there mind. I wont say who else Maybe you could enlighten us a bit about yourself. Again i hope you dont take this the wrong way. I just had a few people PM me with valid concerns and Voiced there opinions
-------------------------
EMAIL ME
wanted unopened 70s 80s wax material cases prefered
also psa 78 and 83 o pee chee
Edited: Tuesday January 23, 2007 at 11:10 PM by 80sJunkie
thread >>
I have no problem if people had a problem, but why not go directly to you?? Also 80sJunkie has not been on here for years, you have actually been here longer, just not as many posts. Why should that hurt your credability??
regards
Gary
80sj
edit to say- While cellos are in fact a little worse than wax on average, I have gotten many, many high grade cards out of cello boxes. To call them "junk" is truly an overstatement.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks Lee! At least someone understands coincidence from reality. I cannot personally believe I am still up at 4:00AM GMT, but I am. Thank goodness I have a work-out-of-my-home-office-sales-job with HP!
Cheers,
MrG >>
Funny, how this post shows that it was made at "MY" 7:57 P.M. So I will round up to "MY" 8:00 P.M. Funny thing, my fiance is in London right now as I speak, and I talked to her last night, and will do so tonight, and there is ONLY a 5 hour difference. I was also there on vacation in January 2006, and unless land masses moved further apart from what I understand geographically, I KNOW there is ONLY a 5 hour difference from where I reside in the Detroit area. Although I was educated at a public school, I think I can handle simple addition, that would put the time of your post at 1 A.M. GMT, but you said "4:00 A.M." I cannot honestly phathom that "IF" you were in the UK, you cannot get your time correct, and I surely hope you are NOT that stupid, to where you cannot tell time!
Some people have you in their "suspect" radar, and do not say I am jumping on the bandwagon of a mob mentality, because almost EVERYone on this board hates me, at least those who I have argued with. Even though I enjoy to hate back, one thing I hate more, is a scammer and a thief.
I was not in any of the rips that took place, was considering a few to some degree, and I am glad I did not pull the plug. This is the type of crap that knocked me out of the hobby back in the early 90s.
Hopefully, some of you get what I am saying here! >>
Just for clarification, I have my theories/conspiracies/etc about MrG but I honestly believe that he and Gary are NOT the same.
You are reaching with the "cellos vs wax" comment...
wax is a lot easier b/c it's 36 packs... you can't get cellos for every year with consistent numbers (to my knowledge).
wax is easy --- 36 guys gives everyone a pack .... no matter which years you go with (after mid 70s).
It's obvious to me that everyone is looking at every comment, action, etc with 100% pessism.
Gary *could* actually be innocent of tampering with our packs. Has anyone actually considered this?
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanks Lee! At least someone understands coincidence from reality. I cannot personally believe I am still up at 4:00AM GMT, but I am. Thank goodness I have a work-out-of-my-home-office-sales-job with HP!
Cheers,
MrG >>
Funny, how this post shows that it was made at "MY" 7:57 P.M. So I will round up to "MY" 8:00 P.M. Funny thing, my fiance is in London right now as I speak, and I talked to her last night, and will do so tonight, and there is ONLY a 5 hour difference. I was also there on vacation in January 2006, and unless land masses moved further apart from what I understand geographically, I KNOW there is ONLY a 5 hour difference from where I reside in the Detroit area. Although I was educated at a public school, I think I can handle simple addition, that would put the time of your post at 1 A.M. GMT, but you said "4:00 A.M." I cannot honestly phathom that "IF" you were in the UK, you cannot get your time correct, and I surely hope you are NOT that stupid, to where you cannot tell time!
Some people have you in their "suspect" radar, and do not say I am jumping on the bandwagon of a mob mentality, because almost EVERYone on this board hates me, at least those who I have argued with. Even though I enjoy to hate back, one thing I hate more, is a scammer and a thief.
I was not in any of the rips that took place, was considering a few to some degree, and I am glad I did not pull the plug. This is the type of crap that knocked me out of the hobby back in the early 90s.
Hopefully, some of you get what I am saying here! >>
Just for clarification, I have my theories/conspiracies/etc about MrG but I honestly believe that he and Gary are NOT the same. >>
I edited the orginal post I made, because I read it before signing in, making the time incorrect, so the post I made was not correct, should have realised you would be quick on the trigger.....lol!
One question has bugged me, since last night's great reading. I remember reading that Gary said he missed the shipment on some particular day, which was going to delay the sending out of member packages until Monday or Tuesday. With an order of that dollor amount, a verified signature with a time and date will absolutely be required. Someone knows (maybe Steve Hart's company) , when that event occurred. I think that its very IMPORTANT to the credability of Gary. Alot of time would've been needed to sort or reorganize all or some of the orders.Has this been addressed ?
I think that once we get to the true bottom of this , for better or worse, we will be the better.
I also don't believe that MrG and 80s could be the same guy... but they *may* know each other better than it *seems*.
<< <i>Lee,
You are reaching with the "cellos vs wax" comment...
wax is a lot easier b/c it's 36 packs... you can't get cellos for every year with consistent numbers (to my knowledge).
wax is easy --- 36 guys gives everyone a pack .... no matter which years you go with (after mid 70s).
It's obvious to me that everyone is looking at every comment, action, etc with 100% pessism.
Gary *could* actually be innocent of tampering with our packs. Has anyone actually considered this?
-Tom >>
Tom,
I admire you for seeing the bright side. Having said that, as I posted in the baseketball "rip":
<< <i>This rip will include 1 pack each of basketball from topps 1978/79 79/80 81/82east fleer 87/88 88/89 5 packs toal >>
Gary's recently completed auctions:
1979 TOPPS BASKETBALL LOT OF 170 NMMT W/STARS *748 Item number: 330090577447
(10) 1980 Topps Baseball Wax PAck Wrapper Lot Item number: 250087211498
(10) 1979-80 Topps Basketball Wax Pack Wrapper Lot Item number: 250087211626
(10) 1978-79 Topps Basketball Wax Packs Item number: 260081243812
Groop of nicely preserved 1987 Fleer Basketball Wrapper Item number: 120090136609
(10) 1978-79 Topps Basketball Wax Packs Item number: 260081243812
(10) 1979-80 Topps Basketball Wax Pack Wrapper Lot Item number: 250084762157
Good luck
<< <i>Guys... it's an 8-hour difference between the west coast and London... 5 hours from the east coast... MrG first chimed in a 9:37 pm EST which is 6:37 pm PST and 2:37 am GMT.
I also don't believe that MrG and 80s could be the same guy... but they *may* know each other better than it *seems*. >>
I clarified that, and my apologies to MrG if he reads this!
<< <i>I'm seriously an outsider looking in ,did not rip, but am deeply troubled as to the impact on the collectors of this board. Trust has had a deep cut , ripped into its fabric. I collect cards as do most on here, but now it may turn to a less shared versus an opened hobby. Who do we trust ? I've heard it said years ago, that the internet will allow us to not be involved with people we don't want to be with. So now we will have even more lurkers and not contributors. Damage has been done, there's no doubt about it.
One question has bugged me, since last night's great reading. I remember reading that Gary said he missed the shipment on some particular day, which was going to delay the sending out of member packages until Monday or Tuesday. With an order of that dollor amount, a verified signature with a time and date will absolutely be required. Someone knows (maybe Steve Hart's company) , when that event occurred. I think that its very IMPORTANT to the credability of Gary. Alot of time would've been needed to sort or reorganize all or some of the orders.Has this been addressed ?
I think that once we get to the true bottom of this , for better or worse, we will be the better. >>
Think thats why Steve took all the pictures showing the clock with the last rip? Hmmmmm......
Of course it's possible that Gary is innocent. However, with the evidence that has piled up and Gary's answers....... If you're looking for video of Gary resealing packs himself, it's not going to happen. We're talking about someone doing something with no witnesses in their own home. Any trial lawyer will tell you it's pretty much impossible to prove something without a shadow of a doubt unless there are credible witnesses, video/audio, or a confession. What the board members are looking at is the preponderance of the evidence.
His response to why he was buying wrappers, boxes, and singles doesn't strike you as wierd? All the coincidences in terms of what he bought and what we're opening don't strike you as strange? What reputable dealer goes around buying wrappers, empty boxes, and ungradable singles from specific sets? The fact that he lied about the 86 Fleer box doesn't hurt his credibility in your eyes? I'm not sure exactly what kind of proof you're looking for blindflyer, but if you need to see him resealing with your own eyes, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Yes good cards have been pulled. If Gary did something shady, then I really can't attest as to what he resealed or replaced. But even if it's just 5 packs out of a box, the rip is tainted because someone got ripped off. Just because MrG pulls a Payton RC, doesn't make it alright that my pack was resealed. Also, it should be said that anyone running this type of scam would be absolutely stupid to pull out all of the good cards, as we would catch on quick.
Lee
Lincoln set Colorless Set
<< <i>Gary *could* actually be innocent of tampering with our packs. Has anyone actually considered this? >>
Tom
It's only the most important fact of this whole conversation.
The rest - ebay background, business models, buying habits, etc. - is just circumstantial background noise IMO.
I was accused of being on a (white) "high horse" of sorts - may be?
But I know one thing - when I was attacked a while back - I felt awful. I would like to extend the same empathy to Gary.
He has a lot a 'splainin' to do - that's true. Some have had fun with it - humor/comedy always comes out of adversity - dark humor is part of life - so I wouldn't attribute anything more to that.
Let's hope Gary can deliver.
mike
The posts below come from the 79/80 BK rip thread... he posts at 11:00 pm on a Saturday that he did not get his delivery that day, maybe Monday... OK... Saturday FedEx is prohibitively expensive service for a heavy carton like a case of cards, but maybe the sender used it anyway? Someone should contact the sender (was it BBCE?) and get the manifest details.
Nonetheless, he claimed the next day, Sunday, that he got a slip from the FedEx guy indicating that a new delivery attempt would be made on Tuesday... OK... where did the slip come from? FedEx NEVER delivers on Sunday and he claimed to have no delivery on Saturday... even so, let's take his statements at face value (see below)... FedEx always delivers on Mondays, especially if it was a premium Saturday delivery. Why would they then wait until Tuesday to attempt another delivery? This series of events needs to be clarified by 80s... because if he did get the deliver on Friday or Saturday he was left with a lot of unaccounted for time until Tuesday to do what he wanted with that case and no one on these boards would even have known it was in his possession.
<< <i>It's the fact that he recommended not going with cellos coupled with his explanation. He didn't use your argument (very logical) that there are 36 packs in a wax box- instead he elected to call cellos crap in terms of condition, which isn't completely true. I also prefaced my statement by saying it certainly isn't evidence. While it may be somewhat of a stretch, everything Gary has said regarding pack rips up until now is relevant and should be taken into consideration.
Of course it's possible that Gary is innocent. However, with the evidence that has piled up and Gary's answers....... If you're looking for video of Gary resealing packs himself, it's not going to happen. We're talking about someone doing something with no witnesses in their own home. Any trial lawyer will tell you it's pretty much impossible to prove something without a shadow of a doubt unless there are credible witnesses, video/audio, or a confession. What the board members are looking at is the preponderance of the evidence.
His response to why he was buying wrappers, boxes, and singles doesn't strike you as wierd? All the coincidences in terms of what he bought and what we're opening don't strike you as strange? What reputable dealer goes around buying wrappers, empty boxes, and ungradable singles from specific sets? The fact that he lied about the 86 Fleer box doesn't hurt his credibility in your eyes? I'm not sure exactly what kind of proof you're looking for blindflyer, but if you need to see him resealing with your own eyes, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Yes good cards have been pulled. If Gary did something shady, then I really can't attest as to what he resealed or replaced. But even if it's just 5 packs out of a box, the rip is tainted because someone got ripped off. Just because MrG pulls a Payton RC, doesn't make it alright that my pack was resealed. Also, it should be said that anyone running this type of scam would be absolutely stupid to pull out all of the good cards, as we would catch on quick.
Lee >>
Lee,
Well said --- and you're right ... we will likely never have 100% proof.
His explanation, while weak, is plausible:
--- sell "kits" to unscrupulos people on ebay. Take the empty boxes from the pack rips and combine them with wrappers, lots etc and resell.
That said, not having a single past auction reflect the sale of one of these "kits" pokes a huge hole in that defense. When was he going to start selling these "kits" and why hadn't he already?
I stand by my original accusation:
--- Gary "replaced" some of Steve's boxes with boxes from other <less reputable and stellar> sources. Zef's picture work seems to prove this.
His ebay purchases are all circumstantial. What is concrete are the cards and packs the participants have in fact received from Gary. My pack came back graded okay. Star cards have been pulled by people other than Gary (the Montana RC in the recent football rip is a BEAUTY).
Maybe he is resealing only 5-10 packs.... but I think the answer will come when a bunch of the participants receive their pack grades. If we see a lot of reseals/alterations, we can feel confident that those packs did not come directly from Steve and can assume that Gary either swapped them or altered them before giving them to us. However, if those packs come back clean (as mine did), a bunch of people on this board need to eat some serious, seroius crow b/c Gary is innocent.
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
To be honest, I'm not sure how much farther this can go cosidering we're never going to have visual or eyewitness proof, and he's never going to fess up if he did it. I see this going around in circles from this point forward. I hope I'm wrong and we reach some type of closure.
Lee
<< <i>Here's a very interesting occurrence that 80s needs to explain... and only the truth will be acceptable as FedEx has indisputable records of delivery and signature sign-off.
The posts below come from the 79/80 BK rip thread... he posts at 11:00 pm on a Saturday that he did not get his delivery that day, maybe Monday... OK... Saturday FedEx is prohibitively expensive service for a heavy carton like a case of cards, but maybe the sender used it anyway? Someone should contact the sender (was it BBCE?) and get the manifest details.
Nonetheless, he claimed the next day, Sunday, that he got a slip from the FedEx guy indicating that a new delivery attempt would be made on Tuesday... OK... where did the slip come from? FedEx NEVER delivers on Sunday and he claimed to have no delivery on Saturday... even so, let's take his statements at face value (see below)... FedEx always delivers on Mondays, especially if it was a premium Saturday delivery. Why would they then wait until Tuesday to attempt another delivery? This series of events needs to be clarified by 80s... because if he did get the deliver on Friday or Saturday he was left with a lot of unaccounted for time until Tuesday to do what he wanted with that case and no one on these boards would even have known it was in his possession. >>
Perhaps he assumed it would have been delivered Monday and just didn't read the delivery slip until Sunday?
<< <i>His explanation, while weak, is plausible:
--- sell "kits" to unscrupulos people on ebay. Take the empty boxes from the pack rips and combine them with wrappers, lots etc and resell.
That said, not having a single past auction reflect the sale of one of these "kits" pokes a huge hole in that defense. When was he going to start selling these "kits" and why hadn't he already? >>
True BUT he originally said the wrappers were for his bar. Not until recently did he claim the wrappers, cards, etc were for resale.
<< <i>It's been over 16 hours since he's been aware of all this and I have yet to hear something that makes sense, or see a picture of his bartop or collage for which he was buying all the wrappers, which he very well might be trying to put together as we speak. >>
So maybe we need to get a video of him actually rubbing his hands over the bartop to prove that the shellac/decoupage isn't wet?
<< <i>I just want one answer from Gary regarding these allegations that I can say to myself as a logically thinking person: "Well, that makes sense". It's been over 16 hours since he's been aware of all this and I have yet to hear something that makes sense, or see a picture of his bartop or collage for which he was buying all the wrappers, which he very well might be trying to put together as we speak.
To be honest, I'm not sure how much farther this can go cosidering we're never going to have visual or eyewitness proof, and he's never going to fess up if he did it. I see this going around in circles from this point forward. I hope I'm wrong and we reach some type of closure.
Lee >>
The bottom line:
He has maintained in multiple posts since this incident his love of the hobby element of his board and his genuity in doing the rips. IF he stands behind that feeling, he will ultimately want to restore credibility. He's gotten to know a lot of folks on here. Disappeaing into the night would ruin his credibility beyond repair. If he really cares about the board and its participants he will sort things out with answers.
We need to give him a chance to do that.
If he chooses to run and hide, we (myself included) will have no choice but to lose all trust for him.
It's been 24 hours since he got run over with a steamroller. Let's see what shakes out over the next few days.... and what shakes out as more packs get returned from PSA or validated by Steve.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Lee
<< <i>
True BUT he originally said the wrappers were for his bar. Not until recently did he claim the wrappers, cards, etc were for resale. >>
My understanding was that his "wrappers for bar" comments only pertained to the 75 minis. The dude claims to have thousands of unopened 70s/80s product (this is well documented). It's very plausible that his bar doesn't' need all of our wrappers or the wrappers he buys on ebay.
I know how I am --- I'd start a project, collect the wrappers ... and procrastinate on ever actually finishing it.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>Wow. Guilty or not, nice to see someone hated more than me around here. Carry on. >>
When did I forfeit my title?
Either way, it does not appear that he can be trusted. This does not mean he is guilty in this instance but past and current actions tells us so.
I would also like to add that everyone in this forum is allowed to voice any concern they wish on this subject. It matters none if they were involved in past rips. They may have considered future ones and it is all part of making this place a good one to be.
<< <i>Or maybe at least have his dog walk on it or something. >>
YouTube!
In my life experience, people who like to invent reasons to lie are considered con men.
If he won't come clean with that, he's certainly not going to admit to anything he could be liable for. Money has spoiled alot of good intentions.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Honestly, I am with you... I want to see what is what here....
But again, there is a little TOO much adding up.
I think the likelihood of all (or any) of us having received the cards that were sent from BBCE, is dwindling by the minute.
And is what you propose having happened any better? We, as a group, decide to purchase a box from BBCE for ($300.00). That box is kept, and another is purchased from "somewhere" for ($150.) Where is the extra ($150) going to?
Again, is that any better? We know Steve's stuff is good. That's why we pay the price for it. If a box is being purchased from a known resealer, and then sent to us as good product, what's the difference?
As much as I would like to think it isn't the case, it definitely APPEARS that we, as a group, have been had, in one manner or another.
Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
<< <i>
And is what you propose having happened any better? We, as a group, decide to purchase a box from BBCE for ($300.00). That box is kept, and another is purchased from "somewhere" for ($150.) Where is the extra ($150) going to?
Again, is that any better? We know Steve's stuff is good. That's why we pay the price for it. If a box is being purchased from a known resealer, and then sent to us as good product, what's the difference?
>>
Of course that's no better! Steve has the reputation and respect of the industry. That's why we buy from him and we want to get what we paid for.
I just revert back to it b/c its the only thing I see as proven (via Zefs pictures).
Gary still has a lot of explaing to do.
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Joe