If Jeter or some other yankee 'hero' had hit that home run against the red sox when they were down so much, the yankee press and 'fans' would have been applauding, saying 'that guy never quits! his team just gave up!' But since it's Arod, they spin it the opposite way, saying it was a fruitless, no pressure homer.
"You don’t average 40 home runs, 120 RBIs and 120 runs a season without helping to win games. And three-run home runs that get your team off to what becomes a 12-4 victory aren’t meaningless."
The media and 'fan' scrutiny that surrounds Arod is out of control. It's jealousy over his money, over his talent, and his ability. The yankees' woes aren't Arod's alone, as he's just one guy. As the author of this article mentions, the yankees had gone 3 years without a title before Arod got there, all they've done is go 2 more.
It's not his fault. He won an MVP for you yankee 'fans' and led your team to a division title. Yet he's not clutch?
first it is all the talk of how the yankees buy the best players......a-rod......sheffield......johnson.......ect.
what about boston .........ortiz..........manny.........schilling........foulke.......beckett........clement
and boston worked twice as hard trying to get A-Rod than the yankees did. boston has bought as many free agents from small market teams as the yankees. they bought damon before the yankees did.
as far as A-rod a lot of teams wanted him including seattle, atlanta and quite a few others but didn't want to pay the 252 millions. clutch or not he is going to the hall of fame, making more money in a year than most people make in a lifetime, and as far as ESPN having an opinion it is by announcers that have never played baseball at all or have never played at A-rod's level.
barry bonds sure would look good in pinstripes ..........
<< <i>first it is all the talk of how the yankees buy the best players......a-rod......sheffield......johnson.......ect.
what about boston .........ortiz..........manny.........schilling........foulke.......beckett........clement
and boston worked twice as hard trying to get A-Rod than the yankees did. boston has bought as many free agents from small market teams as the yankees. they bought damon before the yankees did.
....... >>
fab, great points but "buying players" only counts around here if the Yankees do it
<< <i>If Jeter or some other yankee 'hero' had hit that home run against the red sox when they were down so much, the yankee press and 'fans' would have been applauding, saying 'that guy never quits! his team just gave up!' But since it's Arod, they spin it the opposite way, saying it was a fruitless, no pressure homer.
"You don’t average 40 home runs, 120 RBIs and 120 runs a season without helping to win games. And three-run home runs that get your team off to what becomes a 12-4 victory aren’t meaningless."
The media and 'fan' scrutiny that surrounds Arod is out of control. It's jealousy over his money, over his talent, and his ability. The yankees' woes aren't Arod's alone, as he's just one guy. As the author of this article mentions, the yankees had gone 3 years without a title before Arod got there, all they've done is go 2 more.
It's not his fault. He won an MVP for you yankee 'fans' and led your team to a division title. Yet he's not clutch?
You 'fans' really need to adjust your attitudes. >>
No adjustment is needed.
If Jeter had hit that home run then yes, maybe things would have been said differently. Wanna know why ? IT is because Derek Jeter has proven himself in big spots time after time after time. Even that article talks about the fact that Arod wasnt clutch in Seattle or Texas. There is absolutely no mistaking it. The guy does not come up big on the biggest stage, something that Jeter has done more than his share of over the years. Anyone who says they would rather have Arod than Jeter at the plate in game 7 of a playoff series late in a close game just has no clue in my opinion. Yankee fans are not alone in saying this either. Over the past few days there have been many non yankee fans who have said the same thing.In a big spot they would take Jeter too.
And as myself and others have mentioned numerous times before, Arod did NOT deserve the MVP last year. Ortiz was hands down more valuable to his team. I dont even think Arod was MVP of the Yankees last year, nevermind the whole league.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>fab, great points but "buying players" only counts around here if the Yankees do it >>
but didn't boston buy a championship a few years ago...............i think florida won one
a-rod deserved the MVP it is most valuable player..........ortiz played only half the games
i don't think a DH or pitcher should ever win the MVP........ >>
Did you watch any Yankees or Red Sox games last year ? I cannot see how anyone who did can say Arod deserved MVP over Ortiz. The award is NOT best overall player, it is most valuable. Take Arod off the Yankees last year and they still make the playoffs, take away Ortiz and the Sox dont even come close. He carried that team on his back for weeks at a time, winning game after game with big time clutch hits. I will say it again, Arod was not even the most valuable on his own team.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
{Take Arod off the Yankees last year and they still make the playoffs}
bri2327, got to disagree with you and agree with the Hole on this one. I think ARod often gets a bad rap. The Yankees barely won the divsion last year and nearly missed the playoffs. The exciting Cleveland Indians were right on their tail. Take away ARod 's 48 Home Runs and 130 RBI's and the Yankees don't even come close. Sure, maybe ARod bounced into too many double plays with the bases loaded which would have put them in the lead, but how many of those 130 RBI's caused the Yankees to win?
<< <i> but didn't boston buy a championship a few years ago....................... >>
pretty much. that team had ALOT less home grown talent then ANY of the Yankee 4 Championship clubs. Not to take anything away from them. It was a great year for the Red Sox. But it is laughable how some fans (Red Sox and others)constantly have been bashing the Yankees for not developing talent when that supposed magical Sox team was NOWHERE near the 4 time championship Yankee club as far as home grown help goes .....
<< <i> This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about. >>
Oh boy, CT got all offended He is not totaly wrong Jerry! Ortiz is NO help in the field !!!! There are alot more people than you care to dream of that sneer at DH's winning MVP's
<< <i> This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about. >>
Oh boy, CT got all offended He is not totaly wrong Jerry! Ortiz is NO help in the field !!!! That are alot more people than you care to dream of that snear at DH's winning MVP's >>
I know - I am convinced it was the DH role that cost him the MVP last year - that's the only reason I could think of that A-Rod could have been considered an MVP over him last season. I see the point there, but the MVP award makes no mention of playing the field, or pitching for that matter. Are you valuable to your team, or not?
To say Ortiz played "half" the games though, is pretty ridiculous.
<< <i>This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about. >>
if this is the guidelines to posting here this forum would be empty.
. ortiz is a good player and had a very productive season last year but he is not an all around player. same reason i said a pitcher should not win the mvp award.
a dh to me plays half the game he can't control the out come of a game in the field , a pitcher can win 20 games but only plays every 4th or 5th day. it is most valuable player not most valuable offensive player.
A DH not being MVP is the most rediculous arguement I've ever heard. Please someome tell me one player, just one, who won the MVP award because of his defense. No arguement from me, defense contributes to the team, but to keep a player from winning the MVP award simply because his team chooses to use him as a DH and they have a player who is better defensively playing that position is redundent. ARod may have the trophy, but we all know Ortiz was the "Most Valuable Player" to his team last year!!!
Are the snooty Baseball Writers of America going to keep Harold Baines out of the HOF because he was a DH? How about Edgar Martinez? DH's are just as eligible for the MVP award as they are for HOF election, the writers simply are too blind to make that connection. Most of them probably couldn't throw the ball 60ft 6 inches or even hit a baseball - what the hell makes them the authority to vote on these things? It almost pisses me off - writers thinking they are bigger than the game. Truth be told, no one is bigger than the game, not Ruth, not Aaron, not Clemens, not Mantle, not Mays, not Cobb, not Moutain Landis, not Selig (don't get me started on him), not Rose (should be in the hall), not (Bonds, Mcgwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, Giambi, Sheffield, Boone - all alleged steroid users), not Soriano, Pujols, Pedro, Manny, ARod, Ortiz, Schilling, and certainly not someone who writes about the game.
You have arguably the greatest player in the AL on your team, and you want to try to nitpick and say he's never 'clutch'?
I do not remm anyone saying he was never clutch. what was said was that he seems to come up empty alot when the game is on the line. No one that I could see said NEVER.
I'm sure you will twist what I just said to suit your needs.
I believe the reason Ortiz didnt win the MVP is definately because he doesnt play defense. And the reason? I assume that the vote could have swung either way and maybe even in Ortiz's favor if they were voting on offense alone. But the fact that ARod played a VERY solid defense last year is what put him over the edge with the writers. OK, I know ARod has been less than brilliant at 3B this year, but last year he had an extremely good defensive season. Thats the edge ARod had last year...and it resulted in the advantage that gave him the award. Even if Ortiz played an AVERAGE 1B and played defense most of the season, I think he would have been the run away MVP.
As a American league fan it does bother me that the DH exists. Now this takes nothing away from Ortiz as a hitter. He is just simply a GREAT hitter. The DH sucks and I wish it never came to be. I suspect that if the DH was never intoduced David Ortiz would be playing first base for the Red Sox and they would simply overlook him stinking up the joint in the field becuase of how GREAT he is at the plate. AND I think he would have won that MVP award last year if he was playing a putrid 1st base.
I like the DH, to be honest. It gives teams a lot more options when it comes to offense, and I don't have to see pitchers out there making fools of themselves trying to hit.
In addition, it gives great hitters an extra lease on life in baseball. I will admit, I am a bit biased as Edgar Martinez is one of the all time great DH's, and without that position, his career in baseball would have been cut short a lot sooner. Even so, I think the DH is a great thing.
<< <i>a dh to me plays half the game he can't control the out come of a game in the field , a pitcher can win 20 games but only plays every 4th or 5th day. it is most valuable player not most valuable offensive player. >>
<< <i>The DH is overrated. Guys that should be out of the game are allowed to hang on and pad stats.
Edgar is the poster boy for it.
Steve >>
If you had David Ortiz on your team you'd be singing another tune. 'The DH is the best thing ever!' you'd scream, in attempts of proving you know about baseball.
But you don't, you have players like bernie 'I should have retired 2 years ago' williams regularly batting in the DH spot, so of course you think it's overrated.
You are putting down Bernie Williams? LMAO!!! You always want to boast salary...the guy is making 1.5 million this year and filling in quite well! .270 BA isnt the best but its respectable for a guy who hasnt been playing every day. How about we discuss Adrian Beltre making 12.9 million and hitting .207!!! Beating on Bernie after taking the paycut he did and doing pretty well is a really bad example. Not only that, the guy has HEART. An incredible asset to the team and the fans show their appreciation for him more than I have seen anyone support a ball player in a very long time. The guy made the right move for himself and he is doing a fine job contributing to the Yankees.
I always liked the DH - it is usually boring for a fan to have to watch a pitcher hitting barely .100 go up to the plate and make an automatic out. I know, occasionally he will bunt or sacrifice a runner, and once in a blue moon get an actual hit - but it usually results in a rally killing out. I do think they should have it in both leagues, or not at all though. Not having it in the NL allows NL pitchers to pad their stats a bit versus AL pitchers, for example.
Dan's right though - no DH would just mean David Ortiz plays first base every night. The Red Sox would just learn to live with his play defensively to keep his bat in the lineup.
I don't ever want to see a pitcher hit. It's not their job. I hate to see times like Peavy the other night, on pace for history, to be switched out because his bat is a liability.
Had Peavy been allowed to keep pitching, he could have gotten 5 more K's, who knows. But because of no DH in the NL, we never will.
Peavy was pulled the other night because he had shoulder tightness leading up to his start and the padres want to keep him healthy. Besides, they were loosing when he was pulled and needed runs. He skipped his 'between starts' throwing session yesterday to rest his shoulder, his start for Sunday is not guaranteed.
I know it was only 1 game. But ortiz had to play 1st base in the NL city in 04 and played it quite well if I remm. The DH was instituted to add offense. It had gotten to the point that teams were hitting 225 overall and runs were way down. Thus The AL added the DH. A side benefit of it was that aging players could habg on too.
<< <i>ARod may have the trophy, but we all know Ortiz was the "Most Valuable Player" to his team last year!!! >>
it was the mvp of the AL not of the red sox, i agree ortiz was the #1 player on the red sox
with out the DH who said the red sox would have signed ortiz and have a less than stellar defensive first baseman.
you may disagree but look at soriano........hands of stone.....big bat.....new york and texas both thought the bat was not the most important thing..17 hr in washington
Please, anyone who likes to watch pitchers flailing as a batter, please vote here.
I want to see pitchers pitch. Not hit, because, as a whole, they STINK at it. It's not their fault, they only bat every 4th or 5th game, they just don't get enough at bats to be good, and I'd prefer their minds to be on their pitching, not hitting.
Give me the DH any day of the week over watching an inept batter every 9 at bats.
as of late, and in many instances when the game is on the line he has failed.
And because he is the MVP he gets more scrutiny.
not ridiculous at all.
Steve >>
Steve, this is the faulty goofy analysis I am talking about. You are using an extremely small sample that means nothing. Then I showed you some small samples to show that Jeter is not clutch either. This puts you at a crossroads. If the stuff you are saying about Arod is true, then so are the small sample sizes I put about Jeter in the postseason.
If the small sample sizes I put about Jeter are faulty and untrue, then so are the things you are saying about Arod. It can't be both ways.
That is why I posted the HOF lineup vs. the Post season 'clutch', and the Jeter Post season stuff.
P.S. Funny how the words "STATS", and "PROVEN" are used in the same sentence by you
ARod stepped it up again today at Yankee stadium. He hit a solo home run with the Yankees loosing by 5 runs. Then came up in the bottom of the 8th inning:
runners on 2nd & 3rd only one out and struck out swinging.
The fans in yankee stadium were all over him - what did he do you ask? He went into the dugout and took it out on the bat rack, very classy!
I have no problem with ARod venting his own frustration in the dugout like that. Heck, Mickey Mantle used to pound on anything in the dugout that wasnt breathing. Im glad to know that he cares enough to know that he is sucking lately.
^^I remember O'Neill doing the same exact thing in Yankees stadium. It's good to show some emotion! Show us fans you actually care!
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
I dont think there would be any argument on these boards by saying I have ripped Arod more than anyone else, but I completely agree about him smashing the bat rack. Showing that kind of fire is exactly what endeared Paul O'neill to Yankee fans. Even more than his play I have gotten over Arod for being a phony who is afraid to say what he really means, or show any real emotion. The more pissed off he gets the better in my opinion. I would love to hear him get on tv and speak his mind about anything and everything. Let him rip the fans, the media, the boss, the bat rack, whoever. Anything is better than a boring, scripted, contrived answer that we are used to. He has to find his own identity here, and worrying about what people think will not help. Let him break everything he can find in the dugout, its better than strking out and staring into the camera like he does every chance he gets. I have no doubt that this guy has immense talent, but he has issues. Todays display of anger is actually a big step in the right direction.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
He hits a home run when the team's down, yet he gets ripped for striking out.
The guy can do no right in the eyes of the yankee 'fans' and the media..its absolutely out of control. If I were him, I'd be demanding a trade to a city where the fans, media, and ownership appreciate a guy who gives it his all every day.
I would be happy to see A-Rod playing 3rd base at Comerica Park, hell, I will trade Brandon Inge and Marcus Thames for him, both are clutch, and I have seen it on many occasions. Mike Illitch would welcome him in with open arms, and Jim Leyland would know what to do with A-Rod, since he "sucks" so badly!!!!!
<< <i>I dont think there would be any argument on these boards by saying I have ripped Arod more than anyone else, but I completely agree about him smashing the bat rack. Showing that kind of fire is exactly what endeared Paul O'neill to Yankee fans. Even more than his play I have gotten over Arod for being a phony who is afraid to say what he really means, or show any real emotion. The more pissed off he gets the better in my opinion. I would love to hear him get on tv and speak his mind about anything and everything. Let him rip the fans, the media, the boss, the bat rack, whoever. Anything is better than a boring, scripted, contrived answer that we are used to. He has to find his own identity here, and worrying about what people think will not help. Let him break everything he can find in the dugout, its better than strking out and staring into the camera like he does every chance he gets. I have no doubt that this guy has immense talent, but he has issues. Todays display of anger is actually a big step in the right direction. >>
The trouble is, he cannot speak his mind. He can say he hates the fans, hates the team, or hates whatever, and if he did, or if he did not, he will be scorned no matter what he does, because he is paid well. People are worth what someone is willing to pay him, he got all that loot, not because he speaks well, he got it cause he can play ball. People do not like A-Rod much, because of their utter jealousy of him, people want to be in his shoes, want his lifestyle, but just do not have the skills to get to his level. So he may not be having an MVP season, but keep in mind, the season is just over 1/3 of the way complete, I am sure, he will end up with 40-50 homers, 120+ RBIs, and again, over a .300 average. The best of the best ever went through slumps during their careers, and many players slump once or twice throughout every season they play. No matter how much hate A-Rod gets, no matter how much love A-Rod gets, one thing that I see, is that he shows a ton of character, and is a professional in everything that he does. And as for him seeing a shrink, who cares, I am sure U.S. Presidents have seen a shrink a time or two in their time. It is simple, if you do not want him, there are probably 20 other teams that would take him off your hands, and if he ever asked to be traded, OMG, imagine the backlash for that, and how he turned his back on the greatest fans in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^^What can I say....Bernie still doing it! Ax, A-Rod ONLY left 5 men stranded on base. lol, but Mr. Yankee err Worthless came through like us Yankfans are accustomed too.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Thing is, at the end of the season, I bet A-Rod leads the team in homers and RBIs, and will be pretty close in average also. Wait, leads the team, sorry, I would not doubt he leads the A.L. in two out of three, or at least close to it. Let me guess, I bet it is A-Rod's fault for the bottom of the 8th inning yesterday?
Any time he wants to start acting like a premier player he is more than welcome.....really, we wont mind.
For all the Yankee haters and rah-rah Arod supporters out there, please dont chime in with the same old " he will end up with over 100 rbi's " nonsense. He has 2 guys on base nearly every time he comes up. He can go 0-4 every day and still end up with an RBI on this team as long as he gets his daily 2 strikouts, a ground out and a fly out.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
As weird as it may sound coming from a Red Sox fan like me, I think A-Rod generally gets an unfair rap. He's certainly headed to the HOF even if he retires tomorrow. Sure, he tends to let fan distractions get to him and that may effect his game a bit, but overall he's an outstanding player and most teams are better with him than without. Also, he's never really gotten into trouble either on the field or off the field, nor has he ever been a loud mouth a-hole like TO. I think people tend to dislike him because they see that gaudy salary first before anything else. I don't think he would be ripped as often if he was only getting the average each season. Anyone remember him trying to take LESS money in order to facilitate a trade, but the UNION wouldn't allow it? How often do you see that?
Anyway, that said, I'm far from being a fan either. I thought that swipe he made to knock the ball out of Arroyo's hand in the '04 ALCS was a cheap shot and he should have owned up to it. I would have respected him more if he simply said that it was an instinctive, but unintentional move on his part versus the lame "what did I do?" act he was putting on. Would I have him on the Sox? Probably not, but only because I see no need for him on this team.
About being in the clutch? Well, let's just say Red Sox fans use to pan Jim Rice (and Ted Williams for that matter) about this all the time when he was playing. It wasn't until years later that folks began to rethink this.
Comments
"You don’t average 40 home runs, 120 RBIs and 120 runs a season without helping to win games. And three-run home runs that get your team off to what becomes a 12-4 victory aren’t meaningless."
The media and 'fan' scrutiny that surrounds Arod is out of control. It's jealousy over his money, over his talent, and his ability. The yankees' woes aren't Arod's alone, as he's just one guy. As the author of this article mentions, the yankees had gone 3 years without a title before Arod got there, all they've done is go 2 more.
It's not his fault. He won an MVP for you yankee 'fans' and led your team to a division title. Yet he's not clutch?
You 'fans' really need to adjust your attitudes.
what about boston .........ortiz..........manny.........schilling........foulke.......beckett........clement
and boston worked twice as hard trying to get A-Rod than the yankees did. boston has bought as many free agents from small market teams as the yankees. they bought damon before the yankees did.
as far as A-rod a lot of teams wanted him including seattle, atlanta and quite a few others but didn't want to pay the 252 millions. clutch or not he is going to the hall of fame, making more money in a year than most people make in a lifetime, and as far as ESPN having an opinion it is by announcers that have never played baseball at all or have never played at A-rod's level.
barry bonds sure would look good in pinstripes ..........
<< <i>first it is all the talk of how the yankees buy the best players......a-rod......sheffield......johnson.......ect.
what about boston .........ortiz..........manny.........schilling........foulke.......beckett........clement
and boston worked twice as hard trying to get A-Rod than the yankees did. boston has bought as many free agents from small market teams as the yankees. they bought damon before the yankees did.
....... >>
fab, great points but "buying players" only counts around here if the Yankees do it
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>If Jeter or some other yankee 'hero' had hit that home run against the red sox when they were down so much, the yankee press and 'fans' would have been applauding, saying 'that guy never quits! his team just gave up!' But since it's Arod, they spin it the opposite way, saying it was a fruitless, no pressure homer.
"You don’t average 40 home runs, 120 RBIs and 120 runs a season without helping to win games. And three-run home runs that get your team off to what becomes a 12-4 victory aren’t meaningless."
The media and 'fan' scrutiny that surrounds Arod is out of control. It's jealousy over his money, over his talent, and his ability. The yankees' woes aren't Arod's alone, as he's just one guy. As the author of this article mentions, the yankees had gone 3 years without a title before Arod got there, all they've done is go 2 more.
It's not his fault. He won an MVP for you yankee 'fans' and led your team to a division title. Yet he's not clutch?
You 'fans' really need to adjust your attitudes. >>
No adjustment is needed.
If Jeter had hit that home run then yes, maybe things would have been said differently. Wanna know why ? IT is because Derek Jeter has proven himself in big spots time after time after time. Even that article talks about the fact that Arod wasnt clutch in Seattle or Texas. There is absolutely no mistaking it. The guy does not come up big on the biggest stage, something that Jeter has done more than his share of over the years. Anyone who says they would rather have Arod than Jeter at the plate in game 7 of a playoff series late in a close game just has no clue in my opinion. Yankee fans are not alone in saying this either. Over the past few days there have been many non yankee fans who have said the same thing.In a big spot they would take Jeter too.
And as myself and others have mentioned numerous times before, Arod did NOT deserve the MVP last year. Ortiz was hands down more valuable to his team. I dont even think Arod was MVP of the Yankees last year, nevermind the whole league.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>fab, great points but "buying players" only counts around here if the Yankees do it >>
but didn't boston buy a championship a few years ago...............i think florida won one
a-rod deserved the MVP it is most valuable player..........ortiz played only half the games
i don't think a DH or pitcher should ever win the MVP........
<< <i>
<< <i>fab, great points but "buying players" only counts around here if the Yankees do it >>
but didn't boston buy a championship a few years ago...............i think florida won one
a-rod deserved the MVP it is most valuable player..........ortiz played only half the games
i don't think a DH or pitcher should ever win the MVP........ >>
Did you watch any Yankees or Red Sox games last year ? I cannot see how anyone who did can say Arod deserved MVP over Ortiz. The award is NOT best overall player, it is most valuable. Take Arod off the Yankees last year and they still make the playoffs, take away Ortiz and the Sox dont even come close. He carried that team on his back for weeks at a time, winning game after game with big time clutch hits. I will say it again, Arod was not even the most valuable on his own team.
-- Yogi Berra
You have arguably the greatest player in the AL on your team, and you want to try to nitpick and say he's never 'clutch'? Pathetic!
bri2327, got to disagree with you and agree with the Hole on this one. I think ARod often gets a bad rap. The Yankees barely won the divsion last year and nearly missed the playoffs. The exciting Cleveland Indians were right on their tail. Take away ARod 's 48 Home Runs and 130 RBI's and the Yankees don't even come close. Sure, maybe ARod bounced into too many double plays with the bases loaded which would have put them in the lead, but how many of those 130 RBI's caused the Yankees to win?
Is Rickey in the Hall of Fame yet?
<< <i> but didn't boston buy a championship a few years ago....................... >>
pretty much. that team had ALOT less home grown talent then ANY of the Yankee 4 Championship clubs. Not to take anything away from them. It was a great year for the Red Sox. But it is laughable how some fans (Red Sox and others)constantly have been bashing the Yankees for not developing talent when that supposed magical Sox team was NOWHERE near the 4 time championship Yankee club as far as home grown help goes .....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>ortiz played only half the games >>
This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about.
<< <i>
This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about. >>
Oh boy, CT got all offended
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>
This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about. >>
Oh boy, CT got all offended
I know - I am convinced it was the DH role that cost him the MVP last year - that's the only reason I could think of that A-Rod could have been considered an MVP over him last season. I see the point there, but the MVP award makes no mention of playing the field, or pitching for that matter. Are you valuable to your team, or not?
To say Ortiz played "half" the games though, is pretty ridiculous.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>This is probably not a good forum to post in if you have no idea what you are talking about. >>
if this is the guidelines to posting here this forum would be empty.
. ortiz is a good player and had a very productive season last year but he is not an all around player. same reason i said a pitcher should not win the mvp award.
a dh to me plays half the game he can't control the out come of a game in the field , a pitcher can win 20 games but only plays every 4th or 5th day. it is most valuable player not most valuable offensive player.
Are the snooty Baseball Writers of America going to keep Harold Baines out of the HOF because he was a DH? How about Edgar Martinez? DH's are just as eligible for the MVP award as they are for HOF election, the writers simply are too blind to make that connection. Most of them probably couldn't throw the ball 60ft 6 inches or even hit a baseball - what the hell makes them the authority to vote on these things? It almost pisses me off - writers thinking they are bigger than the game. Truth be told, no one is bigger than the game, not Ruth, not Aaron, not Clemens, not Mantle, not Mays, not Cobb, not Moutain Landis, not Selig (don't get me started on him), not Rose (should be in the hall), not (Bonds, Mcgwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, Giambi, Sheffield, Boone - all alleged steroid users), not Soriano, Pujols, Pedro, Manny, ARod, Ortiz, Schilling, and certainly not someone who writes about the game.
I do not remm anyone saying he was never clutch. what was said was that he seems to come up empty alot when the game is on the line.
No one that I could see said NEVER.
I'm sure you will twist what I just said to suit your needs.
Steve
Please go look at the breakdown skin posted and please tell me how he's come up empty so often, or that his home runs only come in blowouts.
Then, and only then, will you be allowed to post in this thread.
As far as the MVP talk goes, if you have 2 players with similar offensive numbers, why wouldn't you look to defense as a tie breaker?
I did not say he does not hit homeruns with the game on the line.
please stop twisting what is said here, and, YOU are not the person that should tell anyone when and to what thread they can post.
As for the mvp part of the debate I have not even mentioned it.
Steve
I believe the reason Ortiz didnt win the MVP is definately because he doesnt play defense. And the reason? I assume that the vote could have swung either way and maybe even in Ortiz's favor if they were voting on offense alone. But the fact that ARod played a VERY solid defense last year is what put him over the edge with the writers. OK, I know ARod has been less than brilliant at 3B this year, but last year he had an extremely good defensive season. Thats the edge ARod had last year...and it resulted in the advantage that gave him the award.
Even if Ortiz played an AVERAGE 1B and played defense most of the season, I think he would have been the run away MVP.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
In addition, it gives great hitters an extra lease on life in baseball. I will admit, I am a bit biased as Edgar Martinez is one of the all time great DH's, and without that position, his career in baseball would have been cut short a lot sooner. Even so, I think the DH is a great thing.
Edgar is the poster boy for it.
Steve
<< <i>a dh to me plays half the game he can't control the out come of a game in the field , a pitcher can win 20 games but only plays every 4th or 5th day. it is most valuable player not most valuable offensive player. >>
Roger Clemens won the AL MVP in 1986.
<< <i>The DH is overrated. Guys that should be out of the game are allowed to hang on and pad stats.
Edgar is the poster boy for it.
Steve >>
If you had David Ortiz on your team you'd be singing another tune. 'The DH is the best thing ever!' you'd scream, in attempts of proving you know about baseball.
But you don't, you have players like bernie 'I should have retired 2 years ago' williams regularly batting in the DH spot, so of course you think it's overrated.
You are an idiot.
You are putting down Bernie Williams? LMAO!!! You always want to boast salary...the guy is making 1.5 million this year and filling in quite well! .270 BA isnt the best but its respectable for a guy who hasnt been playing every day.
How about we discuss Adrian Beltre making 12.9 million and hitting .207!!!
Beating on Bernie after taking the paycut he did and doing pretty well is a really bad example. Not only that, the guy has HEART. An incredible asset to the team and the fans show their appreciation for him more than I have seen anyone support a ball player in a very long time. The guy made the right move for himself and he is doing a fine job contributing to the Yankees.
I prefer the national league way.
I prefer seeing the manager making a double switch.
I prefer seeing a pitcher lay down a bunt.
I prefer seeing guys like Glavine and Drysdale hit.
Get it?
Steve
Dan's right though - no DH would just mean David Ortiz plays first base every night. The Red Sox would just learn to live with his play defensively to keep his bat in the lineup.
Had Peavy been allowed to keep pitching, he could have gotten 5 more K's, who knows. But because of no DH in the NL, we never will.
The DH is a fantastic thing.
This is exactly why I like the DH rule so much better.
JMO
Steve
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>ARod may have the trophy, but we all know Ortiz was the "Most Valuable Player" to his team last year!!! >>
it was the mvp of the AL not of the red sox, i agree ortiz was the #1 player on the red sox
with out the DH who said the red sox would have signed ortiz and have a less than stellar defensive first baseman.
you may disagree but look at soriano........hands of stone.....big bat.....new york and texas both thought the bat was not the most important thing..17 hr in washington
I want to see pitchers pitch. Not hit, because, as a whole, they STINK at it. It's not their fault, they only bat every 4th or 5th game, they just don't get enough at bats to be good, and I'd prefer their minds to be on their pitching, not hitting.
Give me the DH any day of the week over watching an inept batter every 9 at bats.
<< <i>No, actually it has been proven with stats.
he is hitting 115 in the first inn.
he is hitting 109 after the 7th inn
he is hitting 309 with no one on.
as of late, and in many instances when the game is on the line he has failed.
And because he is the MVP he gets more scrutiny.
not ridiculous at all.
Steve >>
Steve, this is the faulty goofy analysis I am talking about. You are using an extremely small sample that means nothing. Then I showed you some small samples to show that Jeter is not clutch either. This puts you at a crossroads. If the stuff you are saying about Arod is true, then so are the small sample sizes I put about Jeter in the postseason.
If the small sample sizes I put about Jeter are faulty and untrue, then so are the things you are saying about Arod. It can't be both ways.
That is why I posted the HOF lineup vs. the Post season 'clutch', and the Jeter Post season stuff.
P.S. Funny how the words "STATS", and "PROVEN" are used in the same sentence by you
runners on 2nd & 3rd only one out and struck out swinging.
The fans in yankee stadium were all over him - what did he do you ask? He went into the dugout and took it out on the bat rack, very classy!
Mark Mulder rookies
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-- Yogi Berra
The guy can do no right in the eyes of the yankee 'fans' and the media..its absolutely out of control. If I were him, I'd be demanding a trade to a city where the fans, media, and ownership appreciate a guy who gives it his all every day.
<< <i>I dont think there would be any argument on these boards by saying I have ripped Arod more than anyone else, but I completely agree about him smashing the bat rack. Showing that kind of fire is exactly what endeared Paul O'neill to Yankee fans. Even more than his play I have gotten over Arod for being a phony who is afraid to say what he really means, or show any real emotion. The more pissed off he gets the better in my opinion. I would love to hear him get on tv and speak his mind about anything and everything. Let him rip the fans, the media, the boss, the bat rack, whoever. Anything is better than a boring, scripted, contrived answer that we are used to. He has to find his own identity here, and worrying about what people think will not help. Let him break everything he can find in the dugout, its better than strking out and staring into the camera like he does every chance he gets. I have no doubt that this guy has immense talent, but he has issues. Todays display of anger is actually a big step in the right direction. >>
The trouble is, he cannot speak his mind. He can say he hates the fans, hates the team, or hates whatever, and if he did, or if he did not, he will be scorned no matter what he does, because he is paid well. People are worth what someone is willing to pay him, he got all that loot, not because he speaks well, he got it cause he can play ball. People do not like A-Rod much, because of their utter jealousy of him, people want to be in his shoes, want his lifestyle, but just do not have the skills to get to his level. So he may not be having an MVP season, but keep in mind, the season is just over 1/3 of the way complete, I am sure, he will end up with 40-50 homers, 120+ RBIs, and again, over a .300 average. The best of the best ever went through slumps during their careers, and many players slump once or twice throughout every season they play. No matter how much hate A-Rod gets, no matter how much love A-Rod gets, one thing that I see, is that he shows a ton of character, and is a professional in everything that he does. And as for him seeing a shrink, who cares, I am sure U.S. Presidents have seen a shrink a time or two in their time. It is simple, if you do not want him, there are probably 20 other teams that would take him off your hands, and if he ever asked to be traded, OMG, imagine the backlash for that, and how he turned his back on the greatest fans in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-- Yogi Berra
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
You yankee fans are NEVER happy...the other night when he hit a home run then struck out later in the game, all he got was grief for the strikeout.
There's NO pleasing you clowns when it comes to Arod.
Any time he wants to start acting like a premier player he is more than welcome.....really, we wont mind.
For all the Yankee haters and rah-rah Arod supporters out there, please dont chime in with the same old " he will end up with over 100 rbi's " nonsense. He has 2 guys on base nearly every time he comes up. He can go 0-4 every day and still end up with an RBI on this team as long as he gets his daily 2 strikouts, a ground out and a fly out.
-- Yogi Berra
Seriously, though, I think he will keep the Yanks in the race after the All-Star break. If his whole year is bad, that will be a first for him.
Anyway, that said, I'm far from being a fan either. I thought that swipe he made to knock the ball out of Arroyo's hand in the '04 ALCS was a cheap shot and he should have owned up to it. I would have respected him more if he simply said that it was an instinctive, but unintentional move on his part versus the lame "what did I do?" act he was putting on. Would I have him on the Sox? Probably not, but only because I see no need for him on this team.
About being in the clutch? Well, let's just say Red Sox fans use to pan Jim Rice (and Ted Williams for that matter) about this all the time when he was playing. It wasn't until years later that folks began to rethink this.
I do not think AROD.
Steve