I hear Axtell on this. Bri - I don't understand your view. Jeter was the key in getting Arod to come on board with the Yanks. They were friends and admired each other's talents. Arod agreed to play out of position at third basis a chance to play with a WS contender, and Jeter. Despite his recent slump, he has been putting up numbers all season that got the Yanks where they are now.
True, many great Yankee teams have a foundation of "homegrown" players, but selective additions have helped put them over the top.
"A man's got to know his limitations...." Dirty Harry
<< <i>I hear Axtell on this. Bri - I don't understand your view. Jeter was the key in getting Arod to come on board with the Yanks. They were friends and admired each other's talents. Arod agreed to play out of position at third basis a chance to play with a WS contender, and Jeter. Despite his recent slump, he has been putting up numbers all season that got the Yanks where they are now.
True, many great Yankee teams have a foundation of "homegrown" players, but selective additions have helped put them over the top. >>
First off, Jeter was not the key to bringing Arod over. Second, have you watched Yankee games this year ? If you have you are watching very different games than the rest of NY. Arod is about 7th or 8th on the list of players who have helped the Yankees get where they are at at this point in the season.
I said it, and I will say it again, it has nothing to do with who is homegrown and who isnt. Plenty of players who came on board later on are loved here and admired.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
I like Arod, but I have to admit all these stats he's piling up right now won't mean squat unless he can contribute in a meaningful (clutch) way in October. Only then will Yankee fans be satisfied. He has all the tools, let's see what happens come playoff time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I agree, it's all fluff right now because the Yankees have the secondlargest division lead in the Majors now. Where was he when the team needed him? I'm not saying he didn't contribute or him getting hot not is not a great thing but don't confuse it for what it is. He's helping them in the stretch, post division race. Now, will he produce in the playoffs I hope so. Hopefully it isn't a repeat of last seasons playoffs where he batted a Coco Crispesque .117.
Glad he's got it going, now if he can keep getting key hits and stay consistent at third he may win over the fans that he lost in last years postseason debacle and this season ineptitude.
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<< <i>I like Arod, but I have to admit all these stats he's piling up right now won't mean squat unless he can contribute in a meaningful (clutch) way in October. Only then will Yankee fans be satisfied. He has all the tools, let's see what happens come playoff time. >>
Agreed. How can anyone 'not like' Alex Rodriguez? If your kid came home and said 'When I grow up I want to be A-Rod', just how ticked off could you really be? He stays out of trouble, he tries hard to help his team (often, I admit, with mixed success), and he goes about his business like a professional. It's like saying 'I don't like Wayne Gretzky', or 'I don't like Troy Aikman'. There are certain athletes who have worked hard to get to the point where they're simply above reproach, and A-Rod has to be in that catagory.
If you're going to say 'I don't like' somebody then you ought to give a reason WHY you don't like them. And 'he doesn't produce when it matters the most' is NOT a reason. If you think he doesn't produce when it counts then you can say you get frustrated with him, or you wish he performed better when it mattered, but that's a silly reason to say you don't like a guy--- especially when he's been with your team for less than three years.
<< <i>I agree, it's all fluff right now because the Yankees have the secondlargest division lead in the Majors now. Where was he when the team needed him? I'm not saying he didn't contribute or him getting hot not is not a great thing but don't confuse it for what it is. He's helping them in the stretch, post division race. Now, will he produce in the playoffs I hope so. Hopefully it isn't a repeat of last seasons playoffs where he batted a Coco Crispesque .117.
Glad he's got it going, now if he can keep getting key hits and stay consistent at third he may win over the fans that he lost in last years postseason debacle and this season ineptitude. >>
Let us not forget that if A-Rod doesn't have the kind of season he has last year then nobody in Yankeeland would have needed to fret about how well or poorly he performed in October, since the entire Yankee roster would have been blowing the dust off the Calloways by Oct. 3.
Welp, when you have the comeback player of the year, and 2 solid rookie of the year candidates(Wang and Cano) as well as a lineup featuring Sheffield, Matsui, Jeter, and Posada me thinks that no one player made that team what it was. A great regular season(for, one of the best players in the Bigs bar none) but it doesn't mean that flopping in the postseason is any less newsworthy.
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<< <i>Welp, when you have the comeback player of the year, >>
Which was a fraud and a sham - it should have been Richie Sexson. Comeback player of the year shouldn't be awarded to someone whose injuries were self-inflicted. Then, to award a guy who's a self-confessed cheat was just the worst.
<< <i> and 2 solid rookie of the year candidates(Wang and Cano) as well as a lineup featuring Sheffield, Matsui, Jeter, and Posada me thinks that no one player made that team what it was. A great regular season(for, one of the best players in the Bigs bar none) but it doesn't mean that flopping in the postseason is any less newsworthy. >>
No one's arguing that one player made it what it was - but that team would have been sitting at home come playoff time had it not been for Arod's effort last year.
Ax, you and I both know that about Giambi. BUT, lets not discount what he did last season even though I don't want him on the team. He did what he did, and he had a damn good season last year.
Well, with Arod batting a lackluster .117 he sure helped in them going home early. A lot of guys faultered in the postseason last year, it was just that much more glaring because he was the regular season MVP. You get me?
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<< <i>Ax, you and I both know that about Giambi. BUT, lets not discount what he did last season even though I don't want him on the team. He did what he did, and he had a damn good season last year. >>
Not saying he didn't have a good year, but Sexson had every bit the good year, and the previous season he wasn't sitting out because of self-inflicted steroid issues, he was really hurt. MLB really dropped the ball in honoring a known steroid user with comeback player of the year.
You kept saying the Yankees would have the same record with or without Jeter, yet you go on and on about how the Yankees wouldnt have been the same without Arod.....how does that work ?
One guy has a good season, it translates into wins and losses, another guy has a good season and it doesnt ?
I guess in your mind it only makes a difference in wins and losses if you like the guy. At least now I understand.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
You kept saying the Yankees would have the same record with or without Jeter, yet you go on and on about how the Yankees wouldnt have been the same without Arod.....how does that work ?
One guy has a good season, it translates into wins and losses, another guy has a good season and it doesnt ?
I guess in your mind it only makes a difference in wins and losses if you like the guy. At least now I understand. >>
Thanks for spelling it out Bri lol. Not that I didn't know thats what Ax has been saying all along.
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You kept saying the Yankees would have the same record with or without Jeter, yet you go on and on about how the Yankees wouldnt have been the same without Arod.....how does that work ? >>
Because a guy like jeter doesn't make that big a difference like Arod did last year.
<< <i>One guy has a good season, it translates into wins and losses, another guy has a good season and it doesnt ?
I guess in your mind it only makes a difference in wins and losses if you like the guy. At least now I understand. >>
NO, it makes a difference if he is hitting bombs and driving in tons of runs, not getting on base a lot.
On the flip side, if this is the line of reasoning you want to follow, and say that jeter is the reason they are going to the playoffs, admit that Arod is the reason they went to the playoffs last year.
Last seasons team didn't go through the rash of injuries this seasons team did(Last seasons team had Sheffield and Matsui, this season they didn't). Yeah, a guy batting .340 at the top of the lineup doesn't make a big difference. SURE buddy. I think the only reason you despise Jete as much as you do(besides your obvious NY bias) is because your favorite player Arod got moved because he wasn't the #1 guy. If you really don't think getting on base, scoring runs, and having some of the top situation batting averages in the majors isn't a HUGE factor than well; you just don't understand the game. This season Jete is going to have over 100 RBI in the #2 hitting slot, as well as scoring 100 runs. That's 200 runs from one guy hitting in the #2 slot. Sorry, once again if you understood the game you'd realize that Jeter is a huge factor in this team; especially when Sheffield and Matsui were both out the majority of the season. That's something Arod didn't have to worry about last season, he didn't stepup this season when he was needed and now is showing life when the Yankees are just about guarenteed the division title.
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I never claimed anything regarding Jeter. I was using Jeter an an example to prove my point against your nonsense. Once again the reading comprehension is becoming a problem for you.
Quite simply, to repeat what you didnt get the first time....you said Jeter didnt make a difference in wins and losses. I made no claim either way.
I stated that since you said AROD made a difference in wins and losses last year then how can you NOT say the same thing for Jeter this year.
Again, I made NO claim as whether either player contributed to wins or losses, or whether the team would have more or less had either of them NOT been on the team. Therefore it is not MY reasoning, it was a situation presented to you in based on YOUR reasoning. So I have nothing here to admit to, since I made no claim either way. I only stated that if you can say Arod meant the difference in wins and losses then you must believe one player can make that difference, in which case why is that not possible for Jeter too.
Now I know thats alot to soak in, but read it through carefully, absorb, and do your best to grasp it.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
you replace jeter with a mediocre bat at .250 with 10 HRs and 50 RBIs and the team will still be comfortably in first place.
Try replacing Arod's bat on last years team with a guy batting .250 with 10 HRs and 50 RBIs and the yankees miss the playoffs.
Understand now? Is it sinking in yet? >>
bullchit. He's on pace to break 100 RBI and already has 97 Runs. Hitting .344 and a batting title is well within reach. Not only that, he hits when it matters.
Does it sink in yet? Your making up scenarios that didn't happen. The team this season was in WAY worse shape than last season, who are you trying to fool?
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Exactly Topps.....the Yankees were healthy last year. Now, I am not saying Arod didnt play a big part in the team, but to sit here and say that with the injuries they had this year, if you take Jeter off the team and replace him with a mediocre player they would be in the same spot shows how little Ax knows about the game of baseball.
I just wanted to get that in...really is nothing more to add. Point has already been well illustrated. No need to waste time and effort explaining it to someone who wont get it no matter what is said.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
How about this? Replace ARod with much less of a cleanup hitter...say .250 avg, 25 HR, and 100 RBI...when you have a guy like Jeter (and Damon) in front of you GETTING ON BASE his numbers, other than say the average would pump up..even the HRs because he would get better pitches with the protection he has in the Yanks lineup.
And dont twist that with ARods production numbers with Jeter in front of him. As far as Im concerned, with all his natural talent, why havent ALL of ARod's offensive numbers increased by 20% with all the protection around him? Because what ARod DOES have, we can credit Jeter for some of it....threat on base, in scoring position, pitcher in the stretch and not the windup...ARod should be hitting the leather off the ball! Instead, we have seen pitchers give Giambi intentional walks just to pitch to ARod!
The Yankees have been to the post season 11 (ELEVEN) straight seasons. Derek Jeter has been starting for the Yankees for 10 (TEN) straight seasons.
Nuff said about this less than brillant "debate"
ANYBODY who has watched the Yankees the past decade knows that without Derek Jeter there are more than a few very important post season wins that go out the window. It is beyond comprehension that somebody would even try to tear him down to the level of a .250 hitter and say the Yankees would still have had the same outcome of success. Jeter is a bonafide leader on and off the field.
<< <i>I am sure the hecklers would not DARE to mention that there is NOBODY in the major leagues with more base hits the past 10 years then Derek Jeter.
Look it up >>
How many MVPs has the guy won again? Oh wait, one less than a REAL hitting machine named Ichiro. Nobody has more basehits over the last 5 years than Ichiro. LOOK IT UP.
<< <i>How did Ichiro enter this discussion? I thought it was about ARod and Jeter? >>
Well, when it was shown that Jeter has the most hits the last 10 yrs he had to find something to beat that....unfortunately he didnt know that most over 10 yrs is better than most over 5.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i> Well, when it was shown that Jeter has the most hits the last 10 yrs he had to find something to beat that....unfortunately he didnt know that most over 10 yrs is better than most over 5. >>
Comments
-- Yogi Berra
True, many great Yankee teams have a foundation of "homegrown" players, but selective additions have helped put them over the top.
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
<< <i>I hear Axtell on this. Bri - I don't understand your view. Jeter was the key in getting Arod to come on board with the Yanks. They were friends and admired each other's talents. Arod agreed to play out of position at third basis a chance to play with a WS contender, and Jeter. Despite his recent slump, he has been putting up numbers all season that got the Yanks where they are now.
True, many great Yankee teams have a foundation of "homegrown" players, but selective additions have helped put them over the top. >>
First off, Jeter was not the key to bringing Arod over. Second, have you watched Yankee games this year ? If you have you are watching very different games than the rest of NY. Arod is about 7th or 8th on the list of players who have helped the Yankees get where they are at at this point in the season.
I said it, and I will say it again, it has nothing to do with who is homegrown and who isnt. Plenty of players who came on board later on are loved here and admired.
-- Yogi Berra
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Glad he's got it going, now if he can keep getting key hits and stay consistent at third he may win over the fans that he lost in last years postseason debacle and this season ineptitude.
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<< <i>I like Arod, but I have to admit all these stats he's piling up right now won't mean squat unless he can contribute in a meaningful (clutch) way in October. Only then will Yankee fans be satisfied. He has all the tools, let's see what happens come playoff time. >>
Agreed. How can anyone 'not like' Alex Rodriguez? If your kid came home and said 'When I grow up I want to be A-Rod', just how ticked off could you really be? He stays out of trouble, he tries hard to help his team (often, I admit, with mixed success), and he goes about his business like a professional. It's like saying 'I don't like Wayne Gretzky', or 'I don't like Troy Aikman'. There are certain athletes who have worked hard to get to the point where they're simply above reproach, and A-Rod has to be in that catagory.
If you're going to say 'I don't like' somebody then you ought to give a reason WHY you don't like them. And 'he doesn't produce when it matters the most' is NOT a reason. If you think he doesn't produce when it counts then you can say you get frustrated with him, or you wish he performed better when it mattered, but that's a silly reason to say you don't like a guy--- especially when he's been with your team for less than three years.
<< <i>I agree, it's all fluff right now because the Yankees have the secondlargest division lead in the Majors now. Where was he when the team needed him? I'm not saying he didn't contribute or him getting hot not is not a great thing but don't confuse it for what it is. He's helping them in the stretch, post division race. Now, will he produce in the playoffs I hope so. Hopefully it isn't a repeat of last seasons playoffs where he batted a Coco Crispesque .117.
Glad he's got it going, now if he can keep getting key hits and stay consistent at third he may win over the fans that he lost in last years postseason debacle and this season ineptitude. >>
Let us not forget that if A-Rod doesn't have the kind of season he has last year then nobody in Yankeeland would have needed to fret about how well or poorly he performed in October, since the entire Yankee roster would have been blowing the dust off the Calloways by Oct. 3.
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<< <i>Welp, when you have the comeback player of the year, >>
Which was a fraud and a sham - it should have been Richie Sexson. Comeback player of the year shouldn't be awarded to someone whose injuries were self-inflicted. Then, to award a guy who's a self-confessed cheat was just the worst.
<< <i> and 2 solid rookie of the year candidates(Wang and Cano) as well as a lineup featuring Sheffield, Matsui, Jeter, and Posada me thinks that no one player made that team what it was. A great regular season(for, one of the best players in the Bigs bar none) but it doesn't mean that flopping in the postseason is any less newsworthy. >>
No one's arguing that one player made it what it was - but that team would have been sitting at home come playoff time had it not been for Arod's effort last year.
Well, with Arod batting a lackluster .117 he sure helped in them going home early. A lot of guys faultered in the postseason last year, it was just that much more glaring because he was the regular season MVP. You get me?
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<< <i>Ax, you and I both know that about Giambi. BUT, lets not discount what he did last season even though I don't want him on the team. He did what he did, and he had a damn good season last year. >>
Not saying he didn't have a good year, but Sexson had every bit the good year, and the previous season he wasn't sitting out because of self-inflicted steroid issues, he was really hurt. MLB really dropped the ball in honoring a known steroid user with comeback player of the year.
You kept saying the Yankees would have the same record with or without Jeter, yet you go on and on about how the Yankees wouldnt have been the same without Arod.....how does that work ?
One guy has a good season, it translates into wins and losses, another guy has a good season and it doesnt ?
I guess in your mind it only makes a difference in wins and losses if you like the guy. At least now I understand.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Ax, you are proving my point perfectly.
You kept saying the Yankees would have the same record with or without Jeter, yet you go on and on about how the Yankees wouldnt have been the same without Arod.....how does that work ?
One guy has a good season, it translates into wins and losses, another guy has a good season and it doesnt ?
I guess in your mind it only makes a difference in wins and losses if you like the guy. At least now I understand. >>
Thanks for spelling it out Bri lol. Not that I didn't know thats what Ax has been saying all along.
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<< <i>Ax, you are proving my point perfectly.
You kept saying the Yankees would have the same record with or without Jeter, yet you go on and on about how the Yankees wouldnt have been the same without Arod.....how does that work ? >>
Because a guy like jeter doesn't make that big a difference like Arod did last year.
<< <i>One guy has a good season, it translates into wins and losses, another guy has a good season and it doesnt ?
I guess in your mind it only makes a difference in wins and losses if you like the guy. At least now I understand. >>
NO, it makes a difference if he is hitting bombs and driving in tons of runs, not getting on base a lot.
On the flip side, if this is the line of reasoning you want to follow, and say that jeter is the reason they are going to the playoffs, admit that Arod is the reason they went to the playoffs last year.
Can't do it, can ya?
not getting on base doesn't matter huh? Who do you think is being driven in?
Steve
<< <i>lol typical TWIST.
not getting on base doesn't matter huh? Who do you think is being driven in?
Steve >>
Didn't say it didn't matter...said it made less of an impact than hitting home runs and doing the driving in.
Mommy say it was ok for you to use the computer again WP?
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I never claimed anything regarding Jeter. I was using Jeter an an example to prove my point against your nonsense. Once again the reading comprehension is becoming a problem for you.
Quite simply, to repeat what you didnt get the first time....you said Jeter didnt make a difference in wins and losses. I made no claim either way.
I stated that since you said AROD made a difference in wins and losses last year then how can you NOT say the same thing for Jeter this year.
Again, I made NO claim as whether either player contributed to wins or losses, or whether the team would have more or less had either of them NOT been on the team. Therefore it is not MY reasoning, it was a situation presented to you in based on YOUR reasoning. So I have nothing here to admit to, since I made no claim either way. I only stated that if you can say Arod meant the difference in wins and losses then you must believe one player can make that difference, in which case why is that not possible for Jeter too.
Now I know thats alot to soak in, but read it through carefully, absorb, and do your best to grasp it.
-- Yogi Berra
you replace jeter with a mediocre bat at .250 with 10 HRs and 50 RBIs and the team will still be comfortably in first place.
Try replacing Arod's bat on last years team with a guy batting .250 with 10 HRs and 50 RBIs and the yankees miss the playoffs.
Understand now? Is it sinking in yet?
<< <i>I've said it before, I'll say it again:
you replace jeter with a mediocre bat at .250 with 10 HRs and 50 RBIs and the team will still be comfortably in first place.
Try replacing Arod's bat on last years team with a guy batting .250 with 10 HRs and 50 RBIs and the yankees miss the playoffs.
Understand now? Is it sinking in yet? >>
bullchit. He's on pace to break 100 RBI and already has 97 Runs. Hitting .344 and a batting title is well within reach. Not only that, he hits when it matters.
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Bases Empty 131 297 7 97 15 2 7 7 29 43 0 0 .327 .388 .461 .850
Runners On 129 232 90 85 18 1 5 77 34 43 29 3 .366 .460 .517 .978
RISP 122 130 80 50 10 1 4 70 26 22 15 1 .385 .491 .569 1.060
RISP w/2 Outs 80 53 28 20 4 1 1 27 15 11 9 1 .377 .522 .547 1.069
Bases Loaded 28 9 20 4 2 0 0 14 5 1 0 0 .444 .643 .667 1.310
Does it sink in yet? Your making up scenarios that didn't happen. The team this season was in WAY worse shape than last season, who are you trying to fool?
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I just wanted to get that in...really is nothing more to add. Point has already been well illustrated. No need to waste time and effort explaining it to someone who wont get it no matter what is said.
-- Yogi Berra
Yes Axtell, after I used your mother she said it was ok for me to use the comp again.
thought she told you?
Steve
And dont twist that with ARods production numbers with Jeter in front of him. As far as Im concerned, with all his natural talent, why havent ALL of ARod's offensive numbers increased by 20% with all the protection around him? Because what ARod DOES have, we can credit Jeter for some of it....threat on base, in scoring position, pitcher in the stretch and not the windup...ARod should be hitting the leather off the ball! Instead, we have seen pitchers give Giambi intentional walks just to pitch to ARod!
The Yankees have been to the post season 11 (ELEVEN) straight seasons. Derek Jeter has been starting for the Yankees for 10 (TEN) straight seasons.
Nuff said about this less than brillant "debate"
ANYBODY who has watched the Yankees the past decade knows that without Derek Jeter there are more than a few very important post season wins that go out the window. It is beyond comprehension that somebody would even try to tear him down to the level of a .250 hitter and say the Yankees would still have had the same outcome of success. Jeter is a bonafide leader on and off the field.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Look it up
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>I am sure the hecklers would not DARE to mention that there is NOBODY in the major leagues with more base hits the past 10 years then Derek Jeter.
Look it up >>
How many MVPs has the guy won again? Oh wait, one less than a REAL hitting machine named Ichiro. Nobody has more basehits over the last 5 years than Ichiro. LOOK IT UP.
<< <i>How did Ichiro enter this discussion? I thought it was about ARod and Jeter?
Well, when it was shown that Jeter has the most hits the last 10 yrs he had to find something to beat that....unfortunately he didnt know that most over 10 yrs is better than most over 5.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>
Well, when it was shown that Jeter has the most hits the last 10 yrs he had to find something to beat that....unfortunately he didnt know that most over 10 yrs is better than most over 5. >>
Almost unbelievable huh?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Steve
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
-- Yogi Berra
Season 139 594 87 187 16 6 7 38 38 . 315 .365 . 397
Looks like a below average year for Ichiro. Still, a player many teams would love to have on the roster!