<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
Yeah they both suck.
But according to you everything NY sucks. Everything Detroit is great. Everyone in NY has no class, everyone in Michigan is all class. Every player who ever played in Michigan is perfect. Everyone who played in NY is either overrated, a cheat, liar, drug addict, criminal, has no class, etc, etc. And you wonder why your character and intellect is attacked ? For someone to make such biased, unfounded and ridiculous assertions they prove without a doubt that they have zero intellect or character. Keep the bashing coming, all of us in the NY area deserve it bacause we are all classless jerks who have no clue about anything we speak of. Did I miss anything ??
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
I did not say everything NY sucks, I think A-Rod is a great player, you never saw a thread on these boards with me bashing him, only in the past have said, when he goes to the Hall, and goes in with a Mariners uniform, Yankee fans will bltch and moan at that travesty of justice!!! I never said all players in NY are cheats, Giambi and Sheffield are, if Bonds is. NY is NOT the center of the world, seeing how my teams do, without them receiving the press they deserve, and I see 10 seconds of highlights at the end of a 60 minute sports program, but see every single highlight of any NY related team, that bores people shltless!!!!
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
what is with this errrrrrrrrrrrm stuff? Are you 6 years old?
And CT, no doubt that Varitek is the leader of the Red Sox but there is no doubt that Posada is as good if not better than Varitek. Aside from being a better hitter Posada has a CANNON arm and caught 3 different pitching staffs to World Series victories. You can't talk about being the leader of a staff with Varitek and then disregard what Posada has done behind the plate. Also, please stop talking about "intangibles" like its a big deal with Varitek and then diminish that talk with Jeter who by the way, actually is putting up Hall of Fame stats to go along with his "intangibles"
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
what is with this errrrrrrrrrrrm stuff? Are you 6 years old?
And CT, no doubt that Varitek is the leader of the Red Sox but there is no doubt that Posada is as good if not better than Varitek. Aside from being a better hitter Posada has a CANNON arm and caught 3 different pitching staffs to World Series victories. You can't talk about being the leader of a staff with Varitek and then disregard what Posada has done behind the plate. Also, please stop talking about "intangibles" like its a big deal with Varitek and then diminish that talk with Jeter who by the way, actually is putting up Hall of Fame stats to go along with his "intangibles" >>
Soft,
My point exactly. People were sick of hearing about the "intangibles" that Jeter brings, yet Varitek's "intangibles" make him a great player. I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals.
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
what is with this errrrrrrrrrrrm stuff? Are you 6 years old?
And CT, no doubt that Varitek is the leader of the Red Sox but there is no doubt that Posada is as good if not better than Varitek. Aside from being a better hitter Posada has a CANNON arm and caught 3 different pitching staffs to World Series victories. You can't talk about being the leader of a staff with Varitek and then disregard what Posada has done behind the plate. Also, please stop talking about "intangibles" like its a big deal with Varitek and then diminish that talk with Jeter who by the way, actually is putting up Hall of Fame stats to go along with his "intangibles" >>
Soft,
My point exactly. People were sick of hearing about the "intangibles" that Jeter brings, yet Varitek's "intangibles" make him a great player. I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals. >>
Writer, what the heck are you talking about? Who is comparing Varitek to Jeter? The question was Varitek vs Posada...stay with it, man!
I am not disregarding Posada at all. He does a lot of things well, and has been a big part of the Yankees success. I think, though - that the Yanks might have won without him, while Varitek has proven invaluable on many levels to Boston.
<< <i>And I bet you would be saying the same thing about Damon if he hadnt signed with the Yankees and stayed with the Red Sox >>
Who's this Damon guy?
Seriously, the Sox are more than fine without him. And, over the next few years as Crisp enters the prime of his career and Damon enters the twilight of his, the move will prove to be one of the best non-signings the Sox have ever made.
Writer, what the heck are you talking about? Who is comparing Varitek to Jeter?
Writer was not comparing Jeter to varitek. he was comparing how you (CT) claim that intangibles are meaningless when mentioned in regard to Jeter, yet somehow they are of the utmost importance when mentioned with Varitek. he was with it man. were you?
WP, I got it - loud and clear, actually. Did you even read this?
<< <i>I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals. >>
He's not comparing Varitek to Jeter here? My point was, the argument was Varitek vs Posada. Why bring Jeter into it again?
A catcher has a much different role, obviously, than a shortstop. Catchers generally contribute in more ways than meets the eye and in ways that are not reflected on a stat sheet or in a box score. They interact with the pitcher, the umpire and sometimes direct and position the rest of the team in the field. They call the pitches and the position of those pitches in relation to each batter, and make far more plays per game than any other player on the field. Given that, a discussion of "intangibles" is often necessary to discern which catcher is better than the rest, no matter if we are talking about Varitek, Posada, or Pudge.
Fine, don't bring Jeter into again and don't you CT ever and I mean EVER try and diminish what Jeter brings to the Yankees and then sing like a loon about how great "intangibles" are with Varitek. Its called hypocracy. And don't try and tell us all just oh how important Tek is to the Bosox because he is a catcher and responsible for the pitching staff and then laugh when Jorge Posada is compared to Varitek in a better light. Afterall, Jorge is a catcher who is responsible for his pitching staff ..... that WON 3 World Series with him at the helm all while putting up better numbers then Varitek.
<< <i>WP, I got it - loud and clear, actually. Did you even read this?
<< <i>I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals. >>
He's not comparing Varitek to Jeter here? My point was, the argument was Varitek vs Posada. Why bring Jeter into it again?
A catcher has a much different role, obviously, than a shortstop. Catchers generally contribute in more ways than meets the eye and in ways that are not reflected on a stat sheet or in a box score. They interact with the pitcher, the umpire and sometimes direct and position the rest of the team in the field. They call the pitches and the position of those pitches in relation to each batter, and make far more plays per game than any other player on the field. Given that, a discussion of "intangibles" is often necessary to discern which catcher is better than the rest, no matter if we are talking about Varitek, Posada, or Pudge. >>
Ctsox,
WP had it right in what I was trying to say. A bad choice of words on my part. I'm just saying this whole "intangibles" argument is a blurry area - whether we are talking about Tek, Jeter, or Lenny Harris.
I respect your passion for the Bosox though, just like I respect the passion of the Yankee fans on here. Hey, I wish there were more people with such a passion for baseball here near Toronto.
<< I've stated repeatedly that I have accused NO ONE of mass murder. I have not named any names who is to be implicated in the plots that brought down the towers. I will leave you with this - of the 19 terrorists accused of being on the planes, 9 still are alive and well overseas. >>
This is news worthy information. Ax, I am sure any of the network news programs would love to break this story. You could probably get interviewed on TV while giving some lucky newsperson the scoop of the century...
Where have you gone Dave Vargha CU turns its lonely eyes to you What's the you say, Mrs Robinson Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
we appreciate your attempts at derailing threads. If you really wish to have that conversation, send me a PM.
And no one has ever stated Jeter sucks, just that he receives much undue media attention for being 'clutch' (while the truth of the matter is he's just had more postseason opportunities than anyone - ever).
we appreciate your attempts at derailing threads. If you really wish to have that conversation, send me a PM. >>
yes Bobs, please send her a PM and see what kind of story she has for her claim that "of the 19 terrorists accused of being on the planes, 9 still are alive and well overseas"..
And no one has ever stated Jeter sucks, just that he receives much undue media attention for being 'clutch' (while the truth of the matter is he's just had more postseason opportunities than anyone - ever).
both yankees "hits" with risp were hit by jeter. one was what most felt an error, graciously ruled a hit, and the other was a pop bunt not caught by the pitcher
stinnett looks like the second coming of babe ruth
another spin...you take ONE hit and try to make that .340 bases loaded average into something that doesnt matter. yeah, right. So difficult to admit that a Yankees player does anything positive.
It was more directed at the futility of the yankees with men on - Jeter did his job overall, but let's not forget he also hit into a critical double play in the 6th!
Most Yankees fans I know agree that payrod is overrated.
Something to consider with RISP, or bases loaded, or whatever:
over the course of a season or a career, the at bats a player gets with RISP or with the bases loaded are going to come more frequently against pitchers who are pitching poorly than in all other at bats. Any player's average with RISP, given enough at bats to make it meaningful, should be higher than his batting average in all other situations. Nearly all of the at bats a player gets facing a pitcher who is pitching really well, throwing a no-hitter or shutout for example, will not be RISP at bats. When a pitcher is really struggling, on the other hand, most at bats will be RISP opportunities.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
I also heard Morgan make that statement regarding jeter hitting 340. not sure if it was for career or this yr. If it is for this yr then how does one explain that he is hitting 344 overall?
what about the times that a relief pitcher is brought in?
one can't simply say that a pitcher is pitching poorly cuz the bases have become full. Errors have an impact too.
Steve >>
The question is whether or not these mitigating circumstances would fully negate the effect that Dallas is talking about. It seems at first blush like they would not.
<< <i>I also heard Morgan make that statement regarding jeter hitting 340. not sure if it was for career or this yr. If it is for this yr then how does one explain that he is hitting 344 overall?
AVG HR RBI SB .344 5 30 7
I'd love to hear the spin on that.
Steve >>
His career batting average isn't .340. No spin needed (though I am sure you will try to spin it somehow).
You're right, those factor in, too. I'm not saying that all ABs with RISP are against pitchers who are pitching poorly, just that they are rarely if ever against pitchers who are pitching GREAT, and not often against pitchers who are pitching very good. Given enough ABs, the ones with RISP should contain more, as a percentage, against pitchers who are struggling, then the non-RISP ABs. How many more? I have absolutely no idea.
Let's look at your examples, errors and relief pitchers.
Getting RISP chances because fielders make errors should happen as often against pitchers pitching well and pitchers pitching poorly; so a player's RISP average should be unaffected by that.
With relief pitcher's, consider why the relief pitcher was brought in. Yes, sometimes it's just habit - it's a save situation, bring in the reliever. In those cases, again, there should be no impact on the RISP average. But other times the relief pitcher is brought in because the starter is struggling, maybe even in the first or second inning when no reliever was even warming up when the trouble began. In that case, there may be six or seven RISP at bats before the relef pitcher can come in; in those cases, any player's RISP average should be higher than his overall average. The players who have to face the reliever don't have that advantage, but neither are they disadvantaged.
So what we have are lots and lots of RISP at bats where the conditions do not suggest that the pitcher is either pitching much better or much worse than average; then we have some number of other ABs where the conditions clearly favor the batter; but we don't have any ABs where the RISP situation implies that the pitcher is pitching BETTER than average. Which is why I say that RISP averages should be higher: there are situations where RISP implies worse-than-average pitching, but no situations where RISP implies better-than-average pitching. That this effect would account for, say, a 20 point increase in BA with RISP (1 hit in 50 ABs) doesn't seem unlikely at all to me.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
His career batting average isn't .340. No spin needed (though I am sure you will try to spin it somehow).
For those with cement for heads.
It was stated during the game that Jeter had a 340 average with the bases loaded. (I was not sure if they meant this yr or lifetime)
It was then stated in the forum that clutch is a myth bla bla bla and that if he or anyone for that matter was clutch the average with the bases loaded would be higheror at least the same as the overall average.
I got the gist of the pitching great comment you made when you stated that they were throwing a no hitter or a shutout.
certaintly if a guy is working on a no hitter (like you mentioned) not many RISP opportunities would exist.
I just do not buy the fact that RISP are the result of poor pitching. Especially in the frequency in which your post claimed.
I would agree that somewhere in between lies the real answer.
I could give a many reasons how RISP could result and all would be from pirching that was good to great. A runner on 2nd is RISP and a broken bat single from a 98 mph fastball and a sac bunt would do it.
I could also give many other reasons how RISP could result from poor pitching as well.
Your priginal post did mention bases loaded but you also included RISP too.
<< <i>I also heard Morgan make that statement regarding jeter hitting 340. not sure if it was for career or this yr. If it is for this yr then how does one explain that he is hitting 344 overall?
>>
Morgan was talking about Jeters average with runners in scoring position this year. Which is at .340 He is hitting .351 overall and his career batting average is at .315
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Piazza would be #1. >>
invariably.. >>
Howdy pandrews...done smoking the for night?
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
Yeah they both suck.
But according to you everything NY sucks. Everything Detroit is great. Everyone in NY has no class, everyone in Michigan is all class. Every player who ever played in Michigan is perfect. Everyone who played in NY is either overrated, a cheat, liar, drug addict, criminal, has no class, etc, etc. And you wonder why your character and intellect is attacked ? For someone to make such biased, unfounded and ridiculous assertions they prove without a doubt that they have zero intellect or character. Keep the bashing coming, all of us in the NY area deserve it bacause we are all classless jerks who have no clue about anything we speak of. Did I miss anything ??
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
what is with this errrrrrrrrrrrm stuff? Are you 6 years old?
And CT, no doubt that Varitek is the leader of the Red Sox but there is no doubt that Posada is as good if not better than Varitek. Aside from being a better hitter Posada has a CANNON arm and caught 3 different pitching staffs to World Series victories. You can't talk about being the leader of a staff with Varitek and then disregard what Posada has done behind the plate. Also, please stop talking about "intangibles" like its a big deal with Varitek and then diminish that talk with Jeter who by the way, actually is putting up Hall of Fame stats to go along with his "intangibles"
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
what is with this errrrrrrrrrrrm stuff? Are you 6 years old?
And CT, no doubt that Varitek is the leader of the Red Sox but there is no doubt that Posada is as good if not better than Varitek. Aside from being a better hitter Posada has a CANNON arm and caught 3 different pitching staffs to World Series victories. You can't talk about being the leader of a staff with Varitek and then disregard what Posada has done behind the plate. Also, please stop talking about "intangibles" like its a big deal with Varitek and then diminish that talk with Jeter who by the way, actually is putting up Hall of Fame stats to go along with his "intangibles" >>
Soft,
My point exactly. People were sick of hearing about the "intangibles" that Jeter brings, yet Varitek's "intangibles" make him a great player. I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Derek Jeter and Carlos Beltran, errrrrrrrrrrrrm, did I just mention two New York players????????????????? >>
what is with this errrrrrrrrrrrm stuff? Are you 6 years old?
And CT, no doubt that Varitek is the leader of the Red Sox but there is no doubt that Posada is as good if not better than Varitek. Aside from being a better hitter Posada has a CANNON arm and caught 3 different pitching staffs to World Series victories. You can't talk about being the leader of a staff with Varitek and then disregard what Posada has done behind the plate. Also, please stop talking about "intangibles" like its a big deal with Varitek and then diminish that talk with Jeter who by the way, actually is putting up Hall of Fame stats to go along with his "intangibles" >>
Soft,
My point exactly. People were sick of hearing about the "intangibles" that Jeter brings, yet Varitek's "intangibles" make him a great player. I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals. >>
Writer, what the heck are you talking about? Who is comparing Varitek to Jeter? The question was Varitek vs Posada...stay with it, man!
I am not disregarding Posada at all. He does a lot of things well, and has been a big part of the Yankees success. I think, though - that the Yanks might have won without him, while Varitek has proven invaluable on many levels to Boston.
<< <i>And I bet you would be saying the same thing about Damon if he hadnt signed with the Yankees and stayed with the Red Sox
Who's this Damon guy?
Seriously, the Sox are more than fine without him. And, over the next few years as Crisp enters the prime of his career and Damon enters the twilight of his, the move will prove to be one of the best non-signings the Sox have ever made.
Writer was not comparing Jeter to varitek. he was comparing how you (CT) claim that intangibles are meaningless when mentioned in regard to Jeter, yet somehow they are of the utmost importance when mentioned with Varitek. he was with it man. were you?
Steve
<< <i>I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals. >>
He's not comparing Varitek to Jeter here? My point was, the argument was Varitek vs Posada. Why bring Jeter into it again?
A catcher has a much different role, obviously, than a shortstop. Catchers generally contribute in more ways than meets the eye and in ways that are not reflected on a stat sheet or in a box score. They interact with the pitcher, the umpire and sometimes direct and position the rest of the team in the field. They call the pitches and the position of those pitches in relation to each batter, and make far more plays per game than any other player on the field. Given that, a discussion of "intangibles" is often necessary to discern which catcher is better than the rest, no matter if we are talking about Varitek, Posada, or Pudge.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>WP, I got it - loud and clear, actually. Did you even read this?
<< <i>I'm not saying Varitek isn't a decent player, but he hasn't put up steady, offensive numbers like Jeter. And the people that contest that Jeter is an average fielding shortstop should check out what percentage of baserunners that Varitek has thrown out on attempted steals. >>
He's not comparing Varitek to Jeter here? My point was, the argument was Varitek vs Posada. Why bring Jeter into it again?
A catcher has a much different role, obviously, than a shortstop. Catchers generally contribute in more ways than meets the eye and in ways that are not reflected on a stat sheet or in a box score. They interact with the pitcher, the umpire and sometimes direct and position the rest of the team in the field. They call the pitches and the position of those pitches in relation to each batter, and make far more plays per game than any other player on the field. Given that, a discussion of "intangibles" is often necessary to discern which catcher is better than the rest, no matter if we are talking about Varitek, Posada, or Pudge. >>
Ctsox,
WP had it right in what I was trying to say. A bad choice of words on my part. I'm just saying this whole "intangibles" argument is a blurry area - whether we are talking about Tek, Jeter, or Lenny Harris.
I respect your passion for the Bosox though, just like I respect the passion of the Yankee fans on here. Hey, I wish there were more people with such a passion for baseball here near Toronto.
Yes CT I read EVERYTHING that you have and had said.
I also inderstood what writer was saying. As evidenced by his quote.
Steve
<< <i>LOL Writer Lenny Harris! Don't beat on him too much cuz there probably hasnt been a better pinch hitter EVER!
I hear he had great "intangibles" too. Sorry I couldn't resist.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
This is news worthy information. Ax, I am sure any of the network news programs would love to break this story. You could probably get interviewed on TV while giving some lucky newsperson the scoop of the century...
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
we appreciate your attempts at derailing threads. If you really wish to have that conversation, send me a PM.
And no one has ever stated Jeter sucks, just that he receives much undue media attention for being 'clutch' (while the truth of the matter is he's just had more postseason opportunities than anyone - ever).
<< <i>thebobs-
we appreciate your attempts at derailing threads. If you really wish to have that conversation, send me a PM.
>>
yes Bobs, please send her a PM and see what kind of story she has for her claim that "of the 19 terrorists accused of being on the planes, 9 still are alive and well overseas"..
Wow, a whole thread of posts devoted just to me? I'm honored!
and yankeeno, who the f**k was talking to you?
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
Wrong again.
You make it too easy.
I suggest you go back and look at the stats.
Steve
Please show me where Jeter isn't the all time leader in post season at bats, please.
has MORE PLATE APPEARENCES then JETER
by about 25.
I think both have the same amount of at bats though
nice try on your part.
proven wrong again so you will try and weasel your way out.
Steve
PS I think Plate appearence and opportunities are invariable?
And if you take salary into account, he's certainly overrated, payrod strands 7 more tonight. But he'll go 5 for 6 in the next 10-0 type game
both yankees "hits" with risp were hit by jeter. one was what most felt an error, graciously ruled a hit, and the other was a pop bunt not caught by the pitcher
stinnett looks like the second coming of babe ruth
So difficult to admit that a Yankees player does anything positive.
Most Yankees fans I know agree that payrod is overrated.
If Jeter can hit .340 with RISP, then WHY DOESN'T HE HIT LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME?
Jesus, you yankee nuts are crazy. 'Clutch' is a myth, and you eat it up like grandma's dessert.
over the course of a season or a career, the at bats a player gets with RISP or with the bases loaded are going to come more frequently against pitchers who are pitching poorly than in all other at bats. Any player's average with RISP, given enough at bats to make it meaningful, should be higher than his batting average in all other situations. Nearly all of the at bats a player gets facing a pitcher who is pitching really well, throwing a no-hitter or shutout for example, will not be RISP at bats. When a pitcher is really struggling, on the other hand, most at bats will be RISP opportunities.
what about the times that a relief pitcher is brought in?
one can't simply say that a pitcher is pitching poorly cuz the bases have become full. Errors have an impact too.
Steve
AVG HR RBI SB
.344 5 30 7
I'd love to hear the spin on that.
Steve
<< <i>dallas
what about the times that a relief pitcher is brought in?
one can't simply say that a pitcher is pitching poorly cuz the bases have become full. Errors have an impact too.
Steve >>
The question is whether or not these mitigating circumstances would fully negate the effect that Dallas is talking about. It seems at first blush like they would not.
<< <i>I also heard Morgan make that statement regarding jeter hitting 340. not sure if it was for career or this yr. If it is for this yr then how does one explain that he is hitting 344 overall?
AVG HR RBI SB
.344 5 30 7
I'd love to hear the spin on that.
Steve >>
His career batting average isn't .340. No spin needed (though I am sure you will try to spin it somehow).
You're right, those factor in, too. I'm not saying that all ABs with RISP are against pitchers who are pitching poorly, just that they are rarely if ever against pitchers who are pitching GREAT, and not often against pitchers who are pitching very good. Given enough ABs, the ones with RISP should contain more, as a percentage, against pitchers who are struggling, then the non-RISP ABs. How many more? I have absolutely no idea.
Let's look at your examples, errors and relief pitchers.
Getting RISP chances because fielders make errors should happen as often against pitchers pitching well and pitchers pitching poorly; so a player's RISP average should be unaffected by that.
With relief pitcher's, consider why the relief pitcher was brought in. Yes, sometimes it's just habit - it's a save situation, bring in the reliever. In those cases, again, there should be no impact on the RISP average. But other times the relief pitcher is brought in because the starter is struggling, maybe even in the first or second inning when no reliever was even warming up when the trouble began. In that case, there may be six or seven RISP at bats before the relef pitcher can come in; in those cases, any player's RISP average should be higher than his overall average. The players who have to face the reliever don't have that advantage, but neither are they disadvantaged.
So what we have are lots and lots of RISP at bats where the conditions do not suggest that the pitcher is either pitching much better or much worse than average; then we have some number of other ABs where the conditions clearly favor the batter; but we don't have any ABs where the RISP situation implies that the pitcher is pitching BETTER than average. Which is why I say that RISP averages should be higher: there are situations where RISP implies worse-than-average pitching, but no situations where RISP implies better-than-average pitching. That this effect would account for, say, a 20 point increase in BA with RISP (1 hit in 50 ABs) doesn't seem unlikely at all to me.
For those with cement for heads.
It was stated during the game that Jeter had a 340 average with the bases loaded. (I was not sure if they meant this yr or lifetime)
It was then stated in the forum that clutch is a myth bla bla bla and that if he or anyone for that matter was clutch the average with the bases loaded would be higheror at least the same as the overall average.
His overall average THIS YEAR to date is 344.
Steve
I got the gist of the pitching great comment you made when you stated that they were throwing a no hitter or a shutout.
certaintly if a guy is working on a no hitter (like you mentioned) not many RISP opportunities would exist.
I just do not buy the fact that RISP are the result of poor pitching.
Especially in the frequency in which your post claimed.
I would agree that somewhere in between lies the real answer.
I could give a many reasons how RISP could result and all would be from pirching that was good to great. A runner on 2nd is RISP and a broken bat single from a 98 mph fastball and a sac bunt would do it.
I could also give many other reasons how RISP could result from poor pitching as well.
Your priginal post did mention bases loaded but you also included RISP too.
Steve
<< <i>I also heard Morgan make that statement regarding jeter hitting 340. not sure if it was for career or this yr. If it is for this yr then how does one explain that he is hitting 344 overall?
>>
Morgan was talking about Jeters average with runners in scoring position this year. Which is at .340
He is hitting .351 overall and his career batting average is at .315
Just to clear that up
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
so my point is simply that his average with the bases loaded is basically the same as it is OVERALL.
for this year
340 to 344
Steve
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I think he said 340 with the bases loaded. I just was not sure if he meant lifetime or this yr.
that I am almost pos about.
in any event
maybe we can hear the spin later in the day.
Steve
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240