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Most overrated player in each league.
frankhardy
Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Who is the most overrated player in each MLB league. I know I will get some grief over my picks. My picks are not based on whether or not I like the player or not (because one of them I think is one of the classiest players to have ever played). I just don't think he is as good as everybody thinks. With that - here are my picks.
AL - Derek Jeter
Derek Jeter is a very good ball player on a legendary franchise. The fact is though, if he played for the Royals or even a very good team like the White Sox, Angels, or the A's, he would be just a very good shortstop, but not a legend. Great guy and a class act, but overrated.
NL - David Wright
Ok, I know the guy has some great potential and had a good year last year. But, come one! That's all I hear about is David Wright. He has hardly made a dent in the game. I could name many players that had better years last year, and many more that will have better this year. Great ball player, probably an All Star, but I'm just not ready to crown him "King of 3rd Base" just yet.
AL - Derek Jeter
Derek Jeter is a very good ball player on a legendary franchise. The fact is though, if he played for the Royals or even a very good team like the White Sox, Angels, or the A's, he would be just a very good shortstop, but not a legend. Great guy and a class act, but overrated.
NL - David Wright
Ok, I know the guy has some great potential and had a good year last year. But, come one! That's all I hear about is David Wright. He has hardly made a dent in the game. I could name many players that had better years last year, and many more that will have better this year. Great ball player, probably an All Star, but I'm just not ready to crown him "King of 3rd Base" just yet.
Shane
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ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
NL - Chipper Jones; he's a good player, but not worth half of what he gets paid.
He's a solid fielder who bats .300 with little to no power. But because he plays in NY and has been fortunate to be in tons of playoff games, he's considered 'clutch' (even though his postseason BA mirrors his regular season one).
I see softy was quick to defend his boy, saying he's a shoe in for 3000 hits. Really? A shoe in?
In the NL, tough pick, but I would go with Carlos Beltran. He had 1/2 of one good year, and been mediocre at best his career besides that magical free agency run.
Ty Cobb 4189
Hank Aaron 3771
Stan Musial 3630
Tris Speaker 3514
Carl Yastrzemski 3419
Cap Anson 3418
Honus Wagner 3415
Paul Molitor 3319
Eddie Collins 3315
Willie Mays 3283
Eddie Murray 3255
Nap Lajoie 3242
Cal Ripken Jr. 3184
George Brett 3154
Paul Waner 3152
Robin Yount 3142
Tony Gwynn 3141
Dave Winfield 3110
Rickey Henderson 3055
Rod Carew 3053
Lou Brock 3023
Wade Boggs 3010
Al Kaline 3007
Roberto Clemente 3000
There you have it. Digest those names in the exclusive 3,000 hit club in which Jeter is WELL on his way to. Also, no nothing Axtell claims Jeter has "little" or "no" power. Not suprising coming from him since he will say ANYTHING to try and support his propaganda.
Jeter has 171 Home runs and and 313 doubles already. Thats right, One hundred and seventy one home runs. To call that "little" or "no" power regarding a position that has historically had "little" or "no" power just highlites how much of a IDIOT Axtell is.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
AL- i think beltre is kinda overrated.
david wright a little early to say he is overated? give him 4 years in the league before he makes this category.
Beltre isnt overrated he just got over paid..looks like his numbers were roid inflated i could be wrong..but who knows.
my picks would be
johnny damon
bobby abreau
The following are the 162-game average seasons for these players:
Name AVG HR RBI OBP SLUG
Brett .305 19 95 .369 .487
Yount .285 14 80 .342 .430
Molitor .306 14 79 .369 .448
Sandberg .285 21 79 .344 .452
Jeter .314 18 81 .386 .461
My pick for most overrated:
AL - Kris Benson
NL - J.D. Drew.
<< <i>Jeter has 171 Home runs and and 313 doubles already. Thats right, One hundred and seventy one home runs. To call that "little" or "no" power regarding a position that has historically had "little" or "no" power just highlites how much of a IDIOT Axtell is. >>
I normally avoid the Yankee debates, but I'll jump in this one for two reasons:
1. I get to quote from a post that called Axtell an IDIOT and that can never be done too often, and
2. Jeter is NOT overrated. Unless his career is ended very soon, he will retire with the second most right-handed home runs for a Yankee - at any position - behind only Joe Dimaggio. Hitting as a pure righty in Yankee Stadium is flat out hard to do - DiMaggio is the only big Yankee hitting star ever who did not either bat lefty or switch-hit. If you want to look at it another way: move Jeter to Fenway - the easiest park for righties in history - and he would already have 250 homers, would pass 300 easily, and might end up with over 400 by the time he was through (along with a batting average of .320 or higher). Sorry, but as a hitter Jeter is UNDERrated and to say he has little or no power is just plain wrong.
JD Drew? Maybe a few years ago, but now? I didn't even no that he was rated at all.
I would agree w/ Beltran.
Kuhlman,
What you said about giving David Wright 4 more years is exactly my point. He has only played one full year, and eveybody is making him out to be a Hall of Famer.
Shane
<< <i>Can anyone deny that if he played for the Royals, that he would not have nowhere near the notoriety that he has now? >>
There is no way to know how notorious he would be. Robin Yount played in Milwaukee which is more or less the same as Kansas City in terms of media attention, and he got to be awfully well-known, and Derek Jeter is (at least so far) a better player than Robin Yount. No argument that being a Yankee gets a player more attention than not being a Yankee, but I don't see that Jeter is getting any more "extra" attention than any other Yankee, so singling him out as most overrated seems unfair to me.
Look, Jeter's had a nice career, but he gets way more accolades than he is due, thus the OVERRATED tag he gets.
Dallas, who cares if he has the second most home runs of any right handed hitter? WHO CARES? It doesn't mean squat. He averages 18 home runs a year, which is light hitting in this era of unheard of home runs. Had he played in the 60s and 70s, he'd be under 10 a year.
He gets a ton of press for playing in NY, being a pretty boy, and having a ton of postseason appearances. He can't hold a candle to Arod either offensively or defensively, yet people think he's the star of that team.
I stick definitively with my picks of Derek 'Overrated' Jeter and Carlos Beltran.
Why don't you go back to telling everybody how the US government took down the World Trade Centers? About how those towers were felled by professionaly applied explosives. About how the US government saw to it that four airliners and all of its innocent passengers and crew were sacrificed by the Bush administration in this grand plan. Why not? The ineptitude you spew regarding ALL topics from sports to world events glows brighter every day! Good for you ya twit!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Now, skill-wise, I have a problem saying anyone who we all agree is a Hall of Famer is overrated? Speaking strictly numbers if Jeter is overrated than so is Brett, Molitor, Yount and Sandberg.
<< <i>Ax, YOU were the IDIOT who professed Jeter to have "little" or "no" power. It is common for nuts like you to backtrack and change direction when proven wrong. Of course it does not mean squat if Jeter plays in a park NOTORIOUS for curtailing power numbers of right handed hitters in your empty head. "YAWN" Any stat that proves Jeter's greatness will be vilified by you and any stat that may be questionable will be OVER HYPED by you to suit your needs. In essence, YOU don't know squat. >>
When I see real shortstops like Arod being forced to third base because Jeter's too selfish to give up his position, I say he's overrated. When I see Arod crushing the ball AND hitting for a better average, and yet you dopes in NY want to hate him yet love Jeter, I say Jeter's overrated. When I hear announcer after announcer get all warm and mushy saying how 'great' jeter is, I say he's overrated.
<< <i>Why don't you go back to telling everybody how the US government took down the World Trade Centers? About how those towers were felled by professionaly applied explosives. About how the US government saw to it that four airliners and all of its innocent passengers and crew were sacrificed by the Bush administration in this grand plan. Why not? The ineptitude you spew regarding ALL topics from sports to world events glows brighter every day! Good for you ya twit! >>
What does THIS have to do with Jeter being overrated? When you lose all credibility, you bring up unrelated facts? You know that's the surest sign you've lost the debate!
Now get lost you simple minded twit. I am tired of backhanding you.
<< <i>Dallas, who cares if he has the second most home runs of any right handed hitter? WHO CARES? It doesn't mean squat. He averages 18 home runs a year, which is light hitting in this era of unheard of home runs. Had he played in the 60s and 70s, he'd be under 10 a year.
>>
Sadly, very few people care. I bang my head on my keyboard more often than you will ever know (I do it almost every time you post, for example) when people make comparisons that ignore the park and era that players played in. My best guess is that of the 20 most over-rated players of all-time, 10 of them are right-handed hitters who played for the Red Sox (paging Mr. Rice), and the rest played in the 1930's.
How many home runs Jeter would have hit in the 1960's would depend on where he played. If he played in Boston he would have hit a few more than he hits now; if he had played in Houston he would have hit 5 or 6 a year. But by bringing up the topic of the 1960's, you are acknowledging that looking at raw HR totals is not enough to judge a player's power; by what logic can you accept that the era needs to be considered but not the park? Did I say logic? I'm sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.
<< <i>When I see real shortstops like Arod being forced to third base because Jeter's too selfish to give up his position, I say he's overrated. When I see Arod crushing the ball AND hitting for a better average, and yet you dopes in NY want to hate him yet love Jeter, I say Jeter's overrated. When I hear announcer after announcer get all warm and mushy saying how 'great' jeter is, I say he's overrated. >>
This is something of a pet peeve of mine. The Yankees had A-Rod and Jeter and one of them was going to play shortstop while the other played third base. One of them was going to be forced to play a new position and not do as well at that position as he had done at his old position. Which one do you move to third: the one with the stronger arm who is the better overall fielder of the two and the one who will more easily adapt to a new position, or the other one? If you said "the other one" - wait, you did say "the other one" - you need to go back to Baseball 101 and learn how the game is played. A-Rod's move to third was never in question and was obviously correct.
And I don't think I will ever grow tired of backhanding you, Professor Axtell.
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
Frank you usually say intelligent things. This time though you are way off base.
Axhole...............forget it.
Steve
In the NL, I'd second the vote for Chipper Jones.
If I hear another breaking report on sports radio that he played long toss earlier in the afternoon and is ahead of pace on his recovery, Ill scream.
Not sure where some of you are getting your numbers BUT
Lets compare Jeter to Cal Ripken. Surely no one can say that Cal was over rated?
Ripken averaged 33 doubles, 23 Homers and 91 Rbi's and batted 276. great numbers I think we would all agree for a shortstop?
Jeter at this point in his career averages 33 doubles, 18 homers and 81 Rbi's and his average is 314.
Steve
With all due respect, Jeters numbers at his stage of his career MIRROR those of many great Hall of Famers eluded to in this thread. To agree with the ridiculous philosophy above says alot more about the lack of knowlege of the fan then it does of Jeter as a player. The guy as hit leadoff most of his career yet he gets ripped for ONLY having 70 RBI's a year
CT, have have seen you whine before about Jim Rice not being in the Hall. I would have LOVED to see what his numbers would have been hitting in Yankee Stadium over that sand box in Boston.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
2. Ty Cobb 4189
3. Hank Aaron 3771
4. Stan Musial 3630
5. Tris Speaker 3514
6. Carl Yastrzemski 3419
7. Cap Anson 3418
8. Honus Wagner 3415
9. Paul Molitor 3319
10. Eddie Collins 3315
11. Willie Mays 3283
12. Eddie Murray 3255
13. Nap Lajoie 3242
14. Cal Ripken Jr. 3184
15. George Brett 3154
16. Paul Waner 3152
17. Robin Yount 3142
18. Tony Gwynn 3141
19. Dave Winfield 3110
20. Rickey Henderson 3055
21. Rod Carew 3053
22. Lou Brock 3023
23. Wade Boggs 3010
24. Al Kaline 3007
25. Roberto Clemente 3000
I am by no means a Yankee fan but I will put it in perspective for all the nuts on this board. If Jeter gets 3,000 hits he will be tied for 25th on the all-time hit list. He is on pace to surpass this. Anybody who says Jeter is ove is a horse's behind and lets their Yankee hatred blind their common sense.
again nobody can say that smith was overrated??
consider........
Fld pct Smith 978 jeter 975
range? you want range? ok......
average for smith for PO per year is about 210? for jeter it is 220
assists? smith averaged out at 400. Jeter is at 390 that is 10 assists per season less then smith!
errors? the wizard averaged 14 per year. which for a SS is GREAT
Jeter 16
If jeter played in KC or Seattle or wherever you guys want to say then those teams would simply be BETTER TEAMS.
You can look it up.
Steve
who btw is Not a Yankee fan
Steve
But when you start having to compare a certain player to those in the hall or hall bound (Ozzie, Ripken) your argument is all wet. A .300 hitter with less than 20 home runs a year and less than 80 RBIs a year would be a nobody if he didn't play in NY. It's simple.
You Yankeeites are so wrapped up in the Jeter stigma you can't see through the hype, because you are too close to it.
Comparing Jeter to Ozzie should get you shot...Jeter couldn't even bring Ozzie his meals, let alone play in the same league as he did.
Like I said, when you have to start justifying a player's numbers by comparisons to players (and eras) gone by, you have NO argument.
And dallas, the only one getting backhanded here is you...Jeter just assumed that since he was yankees captain, he'd get to stay at his home position. Make all the excuses you want, Arod went to third, a position never playing regularly, and is dominating.
Arod gets NO favorable press in NY, all they care about is his gambling at poker clubs (completely legal for him to do), and trying to dig at him for his supposed shortcomings. Yet Jeter gets all the good press.
Now THAT'S being overrated. Yes, dallas, you may have another backhand sandwich.
.330 Lifetime batting average(MLB)
.350 Lifetime batting average(Japanese league)
He averages nearly 230 hits per season and 39 stolen bases per season.
.994 fielding percentage at RF, with only 11 errors in 792 games.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
Topps-
It was WP trying to get under my skin, my being a Mariners fan and all. WP hides his team loyalties until they start doing well (this year he's a mets fan).
last time i checked the best leadoff hitter plays for the cubs! juan pierre.... im not a cubs fan but he is the best in the game..
go ahead and lay de da me with the stats.. pierre has a ring! and he was 1 of the main reason they have that ring in florida.
ichiro is a great player( off to horrid start this year).. but pierre is top of the class at leadoff hitters!
In the NL Carlos Beltran has to be the lock down winner.
strange but pierre is known for his glove.. and besides losing by i think 1 sb last year to reyes to lead the league.. he steals like 60 a year.
also pierre is a center feilder while ichiro is right.
pierre has a tuff time going against griffey jr. edmounds and of course the best in the game in andruw jones with the glove!
That's your opinion, and of course, I disagree. Not sure how you argue against a guy who gets over 200 hits a season, bats .330, and for all intents and purposes, has no holes in his game.
You have got to be kidding Axhole. I did not have to compare Jeter to HOF's I CHOSE TOO.
All WET? I should compare him to playrs not in the HALL?? What logic is that?
As for the METS I have been a METS fan since 1962 ya dope.
.start having to compare.............lol you are a JOKE Axtey
Well I tried. I tried to show how the guy compares to 2 of the best to play the pos. within the last 20 years and of course you (being the ignorant fool you are) chose to disregard FACTS.
Go to bed now. Susuki is the most overrated player in MLB Today. IMO of course.
Don't flatter yourself Axhole I was not trying to get under your skin.
Steve
Sounds like Jeter............
Ichiro gets 200 a season and he is a GOD, jeter does it and he is overrated.
Yeah he gets 200 hits a season...............180 of them ARE SINGLES.
LOL
STEVE
And Ichiro's overrated? Why didn't you say so in your first post? Why did you jump in with your baseless defenses of Jeter before making your claim? And no NL player? It was obviously a ploy to irritate me.
Take a hike ya dope.
<< <i>200 hits a season
Sounds like Jeter............
Ichiro gets 200 a season and he is a GOD, jeter does it and he is overrated.
Yeah he gets 200 hits a season...............180 of them ARE SINGLES.
LOL
STEVE >>
Hmm perhaps you should say that Jeter's gotten 200+ hits 4 times in his career, half the seasons he's been under, while Ichiro has done it each and every year he's been in the majors, a total of 5.
And so what if they are singles, he's a LEADOFF hitter, he's supposed to get on base ya dope, not hit home runs. When you learn what each position in the lineup is supposed to do, come back and talk to me. As it is, your arguements, as usual, are all WET.
Yeah ground balls are different in todays game.......lol
spend a few minutes and look at the stats....oh I forgot you do not know how to read and understand stats. Ruffing ring a bell?
you remm Red? last week you claimed his stats were the same with the sox and the yanks. I quickly shot you down on that. go to bed and let the grown-ups discuss baseball.
different era's? jeese it is the same game ya twit. not like the guys I mentioned played 60 years ago
Goodnite.........
Steve
pierre seems to be off to better start.. ba is higher.. and he is better feilder and base stealer.
pierre 6 sb's as of now. 10 runs scored.. batting .281 2rbi's 2 walks 16 hits 6 k's
ichiro has 6 sb's even there...14 runs scored . batting .227 ..6 rbi's 7 walks 15 hits..9 k's..
about even! ill give the nod to pierre.. but it can be debated. sb's will go way up!
Maybe tomorrow you won't be such a whiny bit*h...nah, that'd never happen.
let it go.
lets see aint you the guy that claimed the SS backs up the catcher from a throw from the outfield on a play at the plate? ya u nose baseball................
Steve
Susuki is OVERRATED.............
<< <i>well ax lets look at stats so far this year? ok
>>
Why would I look at 2 weeks of a season? It's not enough time to make any sort of valid comparison. Let's look at the last 3-5 years, and tell me the trends.
<< <i>pierre seems to be off to better start.. ba is higher.. and he is better feilder and base stealer.
pierre 6 sb's as of now. 10 runs scored.. batting .281 2rbi's 2 walks 16 hits 6 k's
ichiro has 6 sb's even there...14 runs scored . batting .227 ..6 rbi's 7 walks 15 hits..9 k's..
about even! ill give the nod to pierre.. but it can be debated. sb's will go way up! >>
Again, how can you take 2 weeks of games as the basis for comparison? Look at lifetime averages, you'll see Ichiro is the man.
Steve
edited to add ICHIRO SUCKS
<< <i>lol you are something. Jeter has 190 or more those OTHER years and he too is a leadoff batter or number 2. Axhole........listen I know more about baseball then you will ever know.
>>
Listen sparky, you said 200 hit seasons, you didn't say 190, or any other crap. 200 hits is the gold standard for a great season hitting. Don't try to change your basis for comparison because your BOY jeter gets owned by Ichiro in said category. How many people look and say 'look how many 190 hit seasons this guy has!' No, twit, it's 200 hit seasons. Ichiro has yet to fail in 5 major league seasons of attaining that lofty plateau, and in the process has broke the 82 year old record for hits in a season. Goodnight Gracie.
<< <i>let it go.
lets see aint you the guy that claimed the SS backs up the catcher from a throw from the outfield on a play at the plate? ya u nose baseball................
>>
I nose baseball? I smell it? I sniff it?
I thought you were going to bed already?
Steve
Ichiro........OVERRATED
I did not say he always gets 200 hit seasons......jeese guys are right you are an idiot.....but then again I knew that a long time ago.
yeah yeah Im done with you. It is too easy slapping you down, almost criminal.
Steve
Edited too add: I almost forgot ICHIRO IS OVERRATED
<< <i>And dallas, the only one getting backhanded here is you...Jeter just assumed that since he was yankees captain, he'd get to stay at his home position. Make all the excuses you want, Arod went to third, a position never playing regularly, and is dominating.
>>
I will try one more time to get you to answer the question (this is the fourth time I have asked Axtell this question in different threads, for those of you keeping score at home, and I have yet to get answer):
Given:
(1) that A-Rod is a better fielder than Jeter
(2) that A-Rod has a stronger arm than Jeter
(3) that third base requires a player with a stronger arm than does shortstop
(4) that A-Rod's fielding would be expected to suffer less than Jeter's by a move to third
either
(1) tell me which of the above 4 points you disagree with
(2) explain why those 4 points don't indicate that moving A-Rod to third would be better for the Yankees than moving jeter, or
(3) put on a dress in the belief that I won't give a lady the back of my hand
Hint: Good God, you idiot, you even said in your own post that A-Rod is dominating at third!
Goodnight ya big dope.
Maybe tomorrow you'll have a reasonable argument. Saying 'Ichiro Sucks' or 'Ichiro's Overrated' just proves how completely delusional and unbalanced you truly are.