@ProofCollection said:
I'm wondering if the Gold FH might do better than expected. Everyone seems to be assuming that they're going to produce the maximum 17500. How does the narrative change if they only make 10k? That's still a lot, but I think these are going to be popular.
They can strike the medal anytime they want, even 10 years from now. The coins have to be struck this year. Unless they're was a problem we don't know about, they likely struck them all.
Certainly not me. I'm still waiting for an explanation, one way or the other.
Surely there is one. Why is it a closely guarded secret? And, until they produce it, the most likely explanation is still a reporting issue, regardless of who thunks what.
@ProofCollection said:
I'm wondering if the Gold FH might do better than expected. Everyone seems to be assuming that they're going to produce the maximum 17500. How does the narrative change if they only make 10k? That's still a lot, but I think these are going to be popular.
They can strike the medal anytime they want, even 10 years from now. The coins have to be struck this year. Unless they're was a problem we don't know about, they likely struck them all.
It has been reported in Coin World. They did indeed strike them all.
Which again begs the question why Coin World has nothing to report on the missing 25K medals, one way or the other? Something just isn't right.
If it was just a production issue, they would take orders and fill them when they can. Prematurely cutting off sales, and leaving money on the table, just isn't their current style.
You and a few others get the booby prize. Good job.
The good news is maybe they are thinking like a coin collector and building to suit the market.
Keeps values, good job Mint if that is what is going on.
We don't need or want any prize, booby or otherwise. We didn't predict anything. We have no inside knowledge. We have simply held out that the numbers might actually be right and that there was no need for some convoluted explanation as to where the other 25,000 were.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Excellent work MetroD. Instead of whining back and forth you made the effort to get a real answer. Thanks for obtaining and posting this information. The product limit leaves open the possibility it may be offered in combination with another product. 🫣
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Although the language does sound final, my guess is that this might leave the door open to mint the rest and include privy-less versions as part of a special set.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
No point. Even without posting anything, there's about to be a deluge...
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
All I see is an opportunity to give dealers 3.6 privys per 100 instead of 2.4. I don't see any inability to sell all 75K with the privy. OTOH, they have 17,500 gold coins with no lottery, at a historic premium to now rapidly falling gold prices, packed up and ready to go.
Let's see how that works out for them! "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." to be followed by "Based on our inability to sell 17,500, we decided to make them anyway." Makes a lot of sense. TBD.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another. "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
I think it's missing the middle part. They only minted 50,000. Sales were so successful, they sold out and distributed all the privies. As a result of that success, they decided not to Mint 25,000 more to be distrubuted without the privy lottery. It is poorly constructed, but that's the only interpretation. They clearly didn't expect to even sell out the 50,000
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another. "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
I think it's missing the middle part. They only minted 50,000. Sales were so successful, they sold out and distributed all the privies. As a result of that success, they decided not to Mint 25,000 more to be distrubuted without the privy lottery. It is poorly constructed, but that's the only interpretation. They clearly didn't expect to even sell out the 50,000
I can't agree, because the lottery had to have been designed to move whatever quantity they wanted to sell. Because, to use your phrase, they were under pricing the lottery by not including your "fun premium."
The product with the lottery ticket was under priced even if the non-privy was expected to sell for melt, due to the huge premium obviously attached to a Mint issue with a mintage of only 1794. In hindsight, it seems like they wanted to give an even bigger win to the dealers buying in bulk, since they were getting more privys for their money.
But even that does not explain why they didn't just announce 50K at the outset. Or immediately after the sell out, when they knew that they seeded the 1794 privys in only 50K medals. Or why it took them a month to answer the question, when it has been hanging out there since the first sales report.
What they are saying about the successful sale of 50K leading them to not sell more makes no sense, but it IS their statement. We will likely never know what really happened, but we DO know where the 25K are, and not to expect them to magically appear at any time in the future.
It's all good for me, and it explains why dealers were in the market paying premiums for non-privys after the sell out. But I'd be upset if I sold to them not knowing the true mintage numbers that they would have likely known by putting the sales report together with how many privys they were pulling from their sealed boxes of 100.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another. "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
I think it's missing the middle part. They only minted 50,000. Sales were so successful, they sold out and distributed all the privies. As a result of that success, they decided not to Mint 25,000 more to be distrubuted without the privy lottery. It is poorly constructed, but that's the only interpretation. They clearly didn't expect to even sell out the 50,000
I can't agree, because the lottery had to have been designed to move whatever quantity they wanted to sell. Because, to use your phrase, they were under pricing the lottery by not including your "fun premium."
The product with the lottery ticket was under priced even if the non-privy was expected to sell for melt, due to the huge premium obviously attached to a Mint issue with a mintage of only 1794. In hindsight, it seems like they wanted to give an even bigger win to the dealers buying in bulk, since they were getting more privys for their money.
But even that does not explain why they didn't just announce 50K at the outset. Or immediately after the sell out, when they knew that they seeded the 1794 privys in only 50K medals. Or why it took them a month to answer the question, when it has been hanging out there since the first sales report.
What they are saying about the successful sale of 50K leading them to not sell more makes no sense, but it IS their statement. We will likely never know what really happened, but we DO know where the 25K are, and not to expect them to magically appear at any time in the future.
It's all good for me, and it explains why dealers were in the market paying premiums for non-privys after the sell out. But I'd be upset if I sold to them not knowing the true mintage numbers that they would have likely known by putting the sales report together with how many privys they were pulling from their sealed boxes of 100.
They never made the 25k. It's in the statement. I'm not getting dragged into this again.
They only made 50k. They likely didn't expect it to sell out.
Since the mintage limit remains 75k, they can Mint 25k more anytime they want under a different product number.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another. "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
I think it's missing the middle part. They only minted 50,000. Sales were so successful, they sold out and distributed all the privies. As a result of that success, they decided not to Mint 25,000 more to be distrubuted without the privy lottery. It is poorly constructed, but that's the only interpretation. They clearly didn't expect to even sell out the 50,000
I can't agree, because the lottery had to have been designed to move whatever quantity they wanted to sell. Because, to use your phrase, they were under pricing the lottery by not including your "fun premium."
The product with the lottery ticket was under priced even if the non-privy was expected to sell for melt, due to the huge premium obviously attached to a Mint issue with a mintage of only 1794. In hindsight, it seems like they wanted to give an even bigger win to the dealers buying in bulk, since they were getting more privys for their money.
But even that does not explain why they didn't just announce 50K at the outset. Or immediately after the sell out, when they knew that they seeded the 1794 privys in only 50K medals. Or why it took them a month to answer the question, when it has been hanging out there since the first sales report.
What they are saying about the successful sale of 50K leading them to not sell more makes no sense, but it IS their statement. We will likely never know what really happened, but we DO know where the 25K are, and not to expect them to magically appear at any time in the future.
It's all good for me, and it explains why dealers were in the market paying premiums for non-privys after the sell out. But I'd be upset if I sold to them not knowing the true mintage numbers that they would have likely known by putting the sales report together with how many privys they were pulling from their sealed boxes of 100.
They never made the 25k. It's in the statement. I'm not getting dragged into this again.
They only made 50k. They likely didn't expect it to sell out.
Since the mintage limit remains 75k, they can Mint 25k more anytime they want under a different product number.
I get that they only made 50K. I don't get why, since they could have easily sold 75K at $104 if they seeded them with 1794 privys worth conservatively $3k each. Before taking your "fun premium" into account. (2.4% chance of pulling a privy with 1794 privys out of a mintage of 150K. $34/oz silver. $3K privy. .976x$34= $33.18 .024x$3,000= $72 Add them together, and you get $105, before the "fun premium," and ignoring the fact that 75K medals should be worth at least 2x spot.)
I honestly have no idea why they chose to only make 50K. Neither do you. But saying it's because they didn't think they could sell more with the lottery makes absolutely no sense.
With every single issue, including the upcoming gold one, they try to calibrate mintage and pricing to expected demand. Sometimes they get it right. Other times they don't.
But why would they announce 75K if they had no intention to make them? Why wouldn't they make 75K after announcing them? Or just set the limit at 50K if that's all they thought they could sell? And all they ever intended to make? Why not be forthcoming about what they did right after they did it? Before they put them on sale?
Because, while bulk purchase dealers were in a position to have some insight into what was happening real time, the rest of us were not. Yet another instance of an unlevel playing field. People lucky enough to score some quantity on Day 2 who later sold did so into a market thinking they were selling a 75K medal when they were selling a 50K one. A fact dealers likely knew, by virtue of what they were pulling from the boxes and from the sales report, while they rest of us were blind and clueless. And Coin World was also in the dark. With an update from them likely coming in the next few days by virtue of what we are discussing here.
Lots of questions with no good answers. Your theory would make a lot of sense absent the lottery. But not with it, given the expected value of the sealed package with a mintage of 75K.
Whatever they are, they are not stupid. Fear of being unable to sell 75K is not what drove what they did.
Now, of course, sure. Putting another 25K on sale at $104 without privys would be an insult to most people. And kind of pointless.
Notwithstanding whoever on this forum said they would grab one. Because it would tank the market for what is already out there, and they'd never be able to sell another 25K at $104 with no accompanying lottery. And, as they correctly note, plenty of people would not get the memo regarding the privys being gone, which would only generate bad feelings and returns.
And no, they are not going to make the 25k later under another product number. They literally said that in their statement.
Which is the right move. Because they didn't make them now. When they said they would, and when they should have. For whatever reason. Having the possibility of them appearing at a later date would do nothing but depress the market for them, which would serve no purpose.
Which is why they said "... it was decided to cap production." Not cap production for now, with the decision to maybe be revisited at some indeterminate time in the future.
Even though, yes, as a medal they have statutory authority to do anything they want. At any time they want. Including, apparently under produce and not tell anyone until after they fact.
That said, dumping 25k on the market in the future, under a different product number making no reference to privys, would destroy whatever shred of credibility they have right now, after saying they won't do that. And undermine the value of the 48,206 currently floating around. Even more inconceivable than what they already did. Not gonna happen.
This was a medal, not a coin. I could see them not making the full 75,000 in case they didn't sell out the initial 50,000. They sold them and salted the full lot of privies into the 50,000, whether intentionally or not, so striking the last 25,000 could be problematic.
@Danno44 said:
New mint press release. Yes there will be privy marks on gold however…
Did the Mint PR say 230 coins to be auctioned off??
That is, in fact, exactly what they said. As I speculated would be the case in an earlier post. Both the exact number and the method of distribution.
Good for them! These will go for mucho bucks, and, since the Mint is creating the value, it should be capturing it, rather than having it go to select large advance and and bulk purchasers, with a teeny tiny few dribbling out to the masses. This way, anyone who wants one and can afford one can buy one, direct from the source, with the proceeds going to the federal government.
@goldbuffalo said:
For the Gold, under the 'specs' it states
Privy Mark - NONE
Second,
For Gold
I wonder if all the dealers will be updating their pictures when we get the Mints Images.
The mint says Proof, I'd assume there will be shiny fields.
Otherwise they'd be mis representing the product
It says the same for the silver medal under 'specs'
Privy Mark - NONE
Really? Then what's this, right there in the description?:
"In addition, 1,794 of the medals will contain a “230” privy mark, and 230 of those privy- marked medals will include a certificate of authenticity signed by United States Mint Director Ventris C. Gibson."
Does the gold product page include that language? If not, we just might have solved the riddle.
All you are pointing to is the fact that 73,206 of the medals will not have a privy mark. Which is 100% true. Has nothing to do with the 1794 that will.
Or with the gold, a separate product that will not have any with privy marks. Because privy marks are not in the specifications, or in the description. It's REALLY not complicated.
Or this @NJCoin said
"Yes, I happen to know for sure what will happen. There is not going to be a privy on the gold coin. Take it to the bank. or continue to argue with me. And then, when I turn out to be right, argue that I am nothing more than a blind squirrel who found an acorn. It's all good."
Or maybe this @NJCoin said
"I won't merely be surprised. I'll be utterly shocked, and will be the first to admit if I am wrong. Hopefully you'll honor me with a shout out when I turn out to be right."
And then there is this @NJCoin said
I'm also not implying anything. I'm flat out saying it's not happening. But, hope springs eternal. Good luck with your gold privys.
Should I keep going. You have already said so much about the gold privy.
No, you don't need to keep going. I was talking about a gold privy lottery, and I was right.
Wow! Just keep making it up as you go along. Where did you say anything about a lottery? Please reread your posts above. I knew you wouldn't be able to admit you were wrong. As I said before the mint does whatever it wants. And NJCoin knows everything.
I can say I was right.
" As I said before the mint does whatever it wants. And NJCoin knows everything." 🤣
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
Since you enjoy arguing so much with NJ why not send him PM's instead of hijacking a thread for all of us to endure the endless back and forth of your arguments?
What you view as cheap shots were desperate attempts by members to have you both just STOP.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
Since you enjoy arguing so much with NJ why not send him PM's instead of hijacking a thread for all of us to endure the endless back and forth of your arguments?
What you view as cheap shots were desperate attempts by members to have you both just STOP.
Totally ridiculous.🙄
No. What's "totally ridiculous" is someone who supposedly has people they find annoying on Ignore, publicly declaring it to anyone who cares in some sort of effort to round up an Ignore posse, being so engaged in their posts, and in others' responses to them.
Don't worry about the posts. Don't worry about the thread. You are neither the post police nor the thread police.
For the umpteenth time, you are not a moderator, and our gracious hosts thoughtfully provide tools to assist the more sensitive among us have their delicate eyes shielded from anything they find the least bit annoying. Nothing is going to "just STOP" as long as you continue to post urging it, and egging others on as they take their own "cheap shots."
Your very posts ironically have the effect of continuing that which you want to "just STOP." 🤣🤣🤣
I post for those interested in what I have to say. Whether it's one person or 100.
I don't go out of my way to annoy anyone, relying on everyone's ability to skim past things they have no interest in, or to place me on Ignore if they feel the need. I have no intention to allow you to dictate to me who I can engage with, and on what terms.
You are not the boss of me. And, as I said, not a moderator of the forum. Not sure why you seem to have such a difficult time accepting that. You are accomplishing nothing other than frustrating yourself with your repeated posts and admonitions, after declaring repeatedly that you are checking out. Over and over and over and over again. "Just STOP." 🤣🤣🤣
@Goldminers said:
I will be so glad, probably sometime next year, when this flowing hair speculation, flipping, waste of time cat fight is over. The moderator probably quit reading this thread as well in frustration.
It's become absolutely farcical at this point.
Kudos to metroD for finding the answer.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@jwitten said:
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another. "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
I think it's missing the middle part. They only minted 50,000. Sales were so successful, they sold out and distributed all the privies. As a result of that success, they decided not to Mint 25,000 more to be distrubuted without the privy lottery. It is poorly constructed, but that's the only interpretation. They clearly didn't expect to even sell out the 50,000
I can't agree, because the lottery had to have been designed to move whatever quantity they wanted to sell. Because, to use your phrase, they were under pricing the lottery by not including your "fun premium."
The product with the lottery ticket was under priced even if the non-privy was expected to sell for melt, due to the huge premium obviously attached to a Mint issue with a mintage of only 1794. In hindsight, it seems like they wanted to give an even bigger win to the dealers buying in bulk, since they were getting more privys for their money.
But even that does not explain why they didn't just announce 50K at the outset. Or immediately after the sell out, when they knew that they seeded the 1794 privys in only 50K medals. Or why it took them a month to answer the question, when it has been hanging out there since the first sales report.
What they are saying about the successful sale of 50K leading them to not sell more makes no sense, but it IS their statement. We will likely never know what really happened, but we DO know where the 25K are, and not to expect them to magically appear at any time in the future.
It's all good for me, and it explains why dealers were in the market paying premiums for non-privys after the sell out. But I'd be upset if I sold to them not knowing the true mintage numbers that they would have likely known by putting the sales report together with how many privys they were pulling from their sealed boxes of 100.
They never made the 25k. It's in the statement. I'm not getting dragged into this again.
They only made 50k. They likely didn't expect it to sell out.
Since the mintage limit remains 75k, they can Mint 25k more anytime they want under a different product number.
I get that they only made 50K. I don't get why, since they could have easily sold 75K at $104 if they seeded them with 1794 privys worth conservatively $3k each. Before taking your "fun premium" into account. (2.4% chance of pulling a privy with 1794 privys out of a mintage of 150K. $34/oz silver. $3K privy. .976x$34= $33.18 .024x$3,000= $72 Add them together, and you get $105, before the "fun premium," and ignoring the fact that 75K medals should be worth at least 2x spot.)
I honestly have no idea why the chose to only make 50K. Neither do you. But saying it's because they didn't think they could sell more with the lottery makes absolutely no sense.
With every single issue, including the upcoming gold one, they try to calibrate mintage and pricing to expected demand. Sometimes they get it right. Other times they don't.
But why would they announce 75K if they had no intention to make them? Why wouldn't they make 75K after announcing them? Or just set the limit at 50K if that's all they thought they could sell? And all they ever intended to make? Why not be forthcoming about what they did right after they did it? Before they put them on sale?
Because, while bulk purchase dealers were in a position to have some insight into what was happening real time, the rest of us were not. Yet another instance of an unlevel playing field. People lucky enough to score some quantity on Day 2 who later sold did so into a market thinking they were selling a 75K medal when they were selling a 50K one. A fact dealers likely knew, by virtue of what they were pulling from the boxes and from the sales report, while they rest of us were blind and clueless. And Coin World was also in the dark. With an update from them likely coming in the next few days by virtue of what we are discussing here.
Lots of questions with no good answers. Your theory would make a lot of sense absent the lottery. But not with it, given the expected value of the sealed package with a mintage of 75K.
Whatever they are, they are not stupid. Fear of being unable to sell 75K is not what drove what they did.
Now, of course, sure, Putting another 25K on sale at $104 without privys would be an insult to most people. And kind of pointless.
Notwithstanding whoever on this forum said they would grab one. Because it would tank the market for what is already out there, and they'd never be able to sell another 25K at $104 with no accompanying lottery. And, as they correctly note, plenty of people would not get the memo regarding the privys being gone, which would only generate bad feelings and returns.
And no, they are not going to make the 25k later under another product number. They literally said that in their statement.
Which is the right move. Because they didn't make them now. When they said they would, and when they should have. For whatever reason. Having the possibility of them appearing at a later date would do nothing but depress the market for them, which would serve no purpose.
Which is why they said "... it was decided to cap production." Not cap production for now, with the decision to maybe be revisited at some indeterminate time in the future.
Even though, yes, as a medal they have statutory authority to do anything they want. At any time they want. Including, apparently under produce and not tell anyone until after they fact.
That said, dumping 25k on the market in the future, under a different product number making no reference to privys, would destroy whatever shred of credibility they have right now, after saying they won't do that. And undermine the value of the 48,206 currently floating around. Even more inconceivable than what they already did. Not gonna happen.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. So they were wrong. Someone else we know didn't think they would sell 75k.
They also could have had a package shortage or blank shortage. But since they considered striking 25k more, that may not be the case. They also would normally have gone to backorder in this case. It's not that unusual for them to only Mint part of the maximum.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
Since you enjoy arguing so much with NJ why not send him PM's instead of hijacking a thread for all of us to endure the endless back and forth of your arguments?
What you view as cheap shots were desperate attempts by members to have you both just STOP.
Totally ridiculous.🙄
Actually, I wasn't referring to cheap shots on this thread but others. Interesting that you think I was referring to you.
The reason I respond publicly is because his misinformation is public, if you must know.
Why don't YOU stop? You claim to know how to use "ignore". You claim to have better things to do. Shouldn't be a problem at all.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
Since you enjoy arguing so much with NJ why not send him PM's instead of hijacking a thread for all of us to endure the endless back and forth of your arguments?
What you view as cheap shots were desperate attempts by members to have you both just STOP.
Totally ridiculous.🙄
No. What's "totally ridiculous" is someone who supposedly has people they find annoying on Ignore, publicly declaring it to anyone who cares in some sort of effort to round up an Ignore posse, being so engaged in their posts, and in others' responses to them.
Don't worry about the posts. Don't worry about the thread. You are neither the post police nor the thread police.
For the umpteenth time, you are not a moderator, and our gracious hosts thoughtfully provide tools to assist the more sensitive among us have their delicate eyes shielded from anything they find the least bit annoying. Nothing is going to "just STOP" as long as you continue to post urging it, and egging others on as they take their own "cheap shots."
Your very posts ironically have the effect of continuing that which you want to "just STOP." 🤣🤣🤣
I post for those interested in what I have to say. Whether it's one person or 100.
I don't go out of my way to annoy anyone, relying on everyone's ability to skim past things they have no interest in, or to place me on Ignore if they feel the need. I have no intention to allow you to dictate to me who I can engage with, and on what terms.
You are not the boss of me. And, as I said, not a moderator of the forum. Not sure why you seem to have such a difficult time accepting that. You are accomplishing nothing other than frustrating yourself with your repeated posts and admonitions, after declaring repeatedly that you are checking out. Over and over and over and over again. "Just STOP." 🤣🤣🤣
Totally agree. I'd like to nominate you to be the moderator of Freddie.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
Since you enjoy arguing so much with NJ why not send him PM's instead of hijacking a thread for all of us to endure the endless back and forth of your arguments?
What you view as cheap shots were desperate attempts by members to have you both just STOP.
Totally ridiculous.🙄
Actually, I wasn't referring to cheap shots on this thread but others. Interesting that you think I was referring to you.
The reason I respond publicly is because his misinformation is public, if you must know.
Why don't YOU stop? You claim to know how to use "ignore". You claim to have better things to do. Shouldn't be a problem at all.
Ok. I will place you on Ignore as well. This will prevent me from having to see NJ posts that I have to see when you respond to him by Quote instead of PM or by using @NJCoin.
If I was the only one complaining your points would be valid.
Unlike you and NJ, I can agree to disagree like adults and not continue to post long winded posts claiming I am right and you are wrong.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
It's fine. Feel free to castigate me for it. Not stopping me from going out on a limb yet again. And, if 17,500 turns out to be 7,500, I'll be wrong again.
It's fine. Like Charlie Brown with the football, I can't get enough. 😀
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
Again, please stop saying that, because it's not true. That was before they announced the lottery.
As I have repeated said since the day they announced the lottery, these were always going to sell out. Regardless of how many they were going to make.
The question then became whether or not they would accept returns after privys were stripped from packages. Please go back and look if you don't believe me. It's all here, in black and white. Multiple long winded posts. Won't be hard to find.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
Again, please stop saying that, because it's not true. That was before they announced the lottery.
As I have repeated said since the day they announced the lottery, these were always going to sell out. Regardless of how many they were going to make.
The question then became whether or not they would accept returns after privys were stripped from packages. Please go back and look if you don't believe me. It's all here, in black and white. Multiple long winded posts. Won't be hard to find.
It will be like searching for a needle in a haystack.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
Again, please stop saying that, because it's not true. That was before they announced the lottery.
As I have repeated said since the day they announced the lottery, these were always going to sell out. Regardless of how many they were going to make.
The question then became whether or not they would accept returns after privys were stripped from packages. Please go back and look if you don't believe me. It's all here, in black and white. Multiple long winded posts. Won't be hard to find.
I was talking about before the privy announcement. We are now after the privy lottery and the secondary market remains hotter than you predicted. You predicted $70. Yet, here we are with 50k sold (as many or more than you would have predicted pre-privy) and they have not fallen to that level. Period. Just admit you were wrong about the secondary market price. It's not that hard to say.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
Again, please stop saying that, because it's not true. That was before they announced the lottery.
As I have repeated said since the day they announced the lottery, these were always going to sell out. Regardless of how many they were going to make.
The question then became whether or not they would accept returns after privys were stripped from packages. Please go back and look if you don't believe me. It's all here, in black and white. Multiple long winded posts. Won't be hard to find.
It will be like searching for a needle in a haystack.
It will be like searching for a needle in a needle stack. But it's irrelevant. The lottery is over and the price remains more than double his prediction.
@HalfDime said:
The person with all the answers to this riddle is Michael White at the US Mint. With all of the questions I am surprised that the coin sites have not contacted him on the total sales.
Can't speak for the "coin sites", or numis-media, but I contacted Mr. White's office, and inquired. The person that I interacted with could not answer in real-time, but promised a response. 'If/when' I hear back, I will post the info here.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
Again, please stop saying that, because it's not true. That was before they announced the lottery.
As I have repeated said since the day they announced the lottery, these were always going to sell out. Regardless of how many they were going to make.
The question then became whether or not they would accept returns after privys were stripped from packages. Please go back and look if you don't believe me. It's all here, in black and white. Multiple long winded posts. Won't be hard to find.
It will be like searching for a needle in a haystack.
It will be like searching for a needle in a needle stack. But it's irrelevant. The lottery is over and the price remains more than double his prediction.
Where are all these 1,794 silver privies? Not seeing very many graded, or even for sale yet, compared to the total. If more showed up, the price would probably be dropping a little more. Same with the "50,000" standard ones. I also thought the actual sales prices would be dropping a little more for 70's at this stage.
I sent mine in for grading and they haven't even opened it and entered it into the system yet.
I don't know what's more hilarious - that NJ spent hundreds of hours on this thread, that his haters lost this epic coin forum battle in the end, or that it only took a short email to the mint to get an answer
I think you’re confused. The us mint email confirmed that NJ lost. Again.
@tcollects said:
I don't know what's more hilarious - that NJ spent hundreds of hours on this thread, that his haters lost this epic coin forum battle in the end, or that it only took a short email to the mint to get an answer
Comments
They can strike the medal anytime they want, even 10 years from now. The coins have to be struck this year. Unless they're was a problem we don't know about, they likely struck them all.
Gee, still at 50,000. Who would have thunk it?
You and a few others get the booby prize. Good job.
The good news is maybe they are thinking like a coin collector and building to suit the market.
Keeps values, good job Mint if that is what is going on.
Certainly not me. I'm still waiting for an explanation, one way or the other.
Surely there is one. Why is it a closely guarded secret? And, until they produce it, the most likely explanation is still a reporting issue, regardless of who thunks what.
It has been reported in Coin World. They did indeed strike them all.
Which again begs the question why Coin World has nothing to report on the missing 25K medals, one way or the other? Something just isn't right.
If it was just a production issue, they would take orders and fill them when they can. Prematurely cutting off sales, and leaving money on the table, just isn't their current style.
We don't need or want any prize, booby or otherwise. We didn't predict anything. We have no inside knowledge. We have simply held out that the numbers might actually be right and that there was no need for some convoluted explanation as to where the other 25,000 were.
The Mint responded to my inquiry about the '230th Anniversary Flowing Hair Silver Medal' (24YH) mintage level. A screenshot follows.
Edited to add: I just noticed the following on the 'product page'.
Link: https://www.usmint.gov/230th-anniversary-flowing-hair-silver-medal-24YH.html
Excellent work MetroD. Instead of whining back and forth you made the effort to get a real answer. Thanks for obtaining and posting this information. The product limit leaves open the possibility it may be offered in combination with another product. 🫣
Oh my. Do I screenshot certain posts or just let it go? 😂 I think the arrogance and 100% certainty of the posts is what bothers me most. It’s fun to discuss coins and possibilities and what we think may happen or has happened. But it’s not fun when one person dominates the conversation and acts like everyone else is wrong, when reality is most of their guarantees are completely wrong.
Thank you @MetroD for obtaining this valuable info from the MInt.....great job!
And kudos to @NJCoin who deserves some real cred for harping on the 50k mintage of the silver FH Medal against lots of resistance from other posters.
Although the language does sound final, my guess is that this might leave the door open to mint the rest and include privy-less versions as part of a special set.
Woah!!!! NICE job on getting that information!!! That explains the stickiness of the pricing on the raw. Sucks for anyone who sold early based on a 75K mintage.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." makes absolutely no sense, since they obviously could have easily sold all 75K. This does, however, explain the quick sell out. Shocking that they willingly left all that money on the table. I'd love to know why.
It also makes sense not to make any more available now, since they are correct that putting the remaining 25K on sale without a lottery ticket would be a huge disappointment, and would only piss off people who buy not realizing there was no chance at a privy. The lottery was an even greater giveaway to dealers able to buy in bulk, since they were guaranteed 3.6 privys per 100 rather than the advertised 2.4. Nice for them!
I'm not sure I deserve any kudos, though. I really thought the missing 25K was a reporting error. It never occurred to me that they would create a lottery to move 75K, and then pull 25K for no apparent reason.
Under the circumstances, I'm not going to concede being wrong about the secondary market pricing of the non-privys, since I had no way to know they would gratuitously limit the mintage to 2/3 of the authorized total. But I will give a shout out to @jmlanzaf for recognizing the possibility, or even likelihood, of the mintage being limited when I could not imagine it.
No point. Even without posting anything, there's about to be a deluge...
Thank you. But all we accomplished was aggravating the rest of the forum.
What will we discuss now?
Screenshot anything you want. This explanation still makes absolutely no sense, so I don't feel even a little bad about not foreseeing it. It does, however solve one mystery while presenting another.
"Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." ????? Please, anyone, connect those dots for me.
All I see is an opportunity to give dealers 3.6 privys per 100 instead of 2.4. I don't see any inability to sell all 75K with the privy. OTOH, they have 17,500 gold coins with no lottery, at a historic premium to now rapidly falling gold prices, packed up and ready to go.
Let's see how that works out for them! "Based on the overall success ... it was decided to cap production below the mintage limit ..." to be followed by "Based on our inability to sell 17,500, we decided to make them anyway." Makes a lot of sense. TBD.
I think it's missing the middle part. They only minted 50,000. Sales were so successful, they sold out and distributed all the privies. As a result of that success, they decided not to Mint 25,000 more to be distrubuted without the privy lottery. It is poorly constructed, but that's the only interpretation. They clearly didn't expect to even sell out the 50,000
I'm sure we'll find something!! 😀
You do realize that I actually agree with you the vast majority of the time, don't you?
I actually prefer arguing with you than enduring the little cheap shots some of the others just throw out there.
I can't agree, because the lottery had to have been designed to move whatever quantity they wanted to sell. Because, to use your phrase, they were under pricing the lottery by not including your "fun premium."
The product with the lottery ticket was under priced even if the non-privy was expected to sell for melt, due to the huge premium obviously attached to a Mint issue with a mintage of only 1794. In hindsight, it seems like they wanted to give an even bigger win to the dealers buying in bulk, since they were getting more privys for their money.
But even that does not explain why they didn't just announce 50K at the outset. Or immediately after the sell out, when they knew that they seeded the 1794 privys in only 50K medals. Or why it took them a month to answer the question, when it has been hanging out there since the first sales report.
What they are saying about the successful sale of 50K leading them to not sell more makes no sense, but it IS their statement. We will likely never know what really happened, but we DO know where the 25K are, and not to expect them to magically appear at any time in the future.
It's all good for me, and it explains why dealers were in the market paying premiums for non-privys after the sell out. But I'd be upset if I sold to them not knowing the true mintage numbers that they would have likely known by putting the sales report together with how many privys they were pulling from their sealed boxes of 100.
I am happy to see some information in black & white! I admit I was wrong too. When it comes to the U.S. Gov't you just never know.
They never made the 25k. It's in the statement. I'm not getting dragged into this again.
They only made 50k. They likely didn't expect it to sell out.
Since the mintage limit remains 75k, they can Mint 25k more anytime they want under a different product number.
we can argue about what way(s) the remaining 25,000 will be sold
FedEx brought by yesterday.....I'm happy with my one Ag FH.
☺️
I get that they only made 50K. I don't get why, since they could have easily sold 75K at $104 if they seeded them with 1794 privys worth conservatively $3k each. Before taking your "fun premium" into account. (2.4% chance of pulling a privy with 1794 privys out of a mintage of 150K. $34/oz silver. $3K privy. .976x$34= $33.18 .024x$3,000= $72 Add them together, and you get $105, before the "fun premium," and ignoring the fact that 75K medals should be worth at least 2x spot.)
I honestly have no idea why they chose to only make 50K. Neither do you. But saying it's because they didn't think they could sell more with the lottery makes absolutely no sense.
With every single issue, including the upcoming gold one, they try to calibrate mintage and pricing to expected demand. Sometimes they get it right. Other times they don't.
But why would they announce 75K if they had no intention to make them? Why wouldn't they make 75K after announcing them? Or just set the limit at 50K if that's all they thought they could sell? And all they ever intended to make? Why not be forthcoming about what they did right after they did it? Before they put them on sale?
Because, while bulk purchase dealers were in a position to have some insight into what was happening real time, the rest of us were not. Yet another instance of an unlevel playing field. People lucky enough to score some quantity on Day 2 who later sold did so into a market thinking they were selling a 75K medal when they were selling a 50K one. A fact dealers likely knew, by virtue of what they were pulling from the boxes and from the sales report, while they rest of us were blind and clueless. And Coin World was also in the dark. With an update from them likely coming in the next few days by virtue of what we are discussing here.
Lots of questions with no good answers. Your theory would make a lot of sense absent the lottery. But not with it, given the expected value of the sealed package with a mintage of 75K.
Whatever they are, they are not stupid. Fear of being unable to sell 75K is not what drove what they did.
Now, of course, sure. Putting another 25K on sale at $104 without privys would be an insult to most people. And kind of pointless.
Notwithstanding whoever on this forum said they would grab one. Because it would tank the market for what is already out there, and they'd never be able to sell another 25K at $104 with no accompanying lottery. And, as they correctly note, plenty of people would not get the memo regarding the privys being gone, which would only generate bad feelings and returns.
And no, they are not going to make the 25k later under another product number. They literally said that in their statement.
Which is the right move. Because they didn't make them now. When they said they would, and when they should have. For whatever reason. Having the possibility of them appearing at a later date would do nothing but depress the market for them, which would serve no purpose.
Which is why they said "... it was decided to cap production." Not cap production for now, with the decision to maybe be revisited at some indeterminate time in the future.
Even though, yes, as a medal they have statutory authority to do anything they want. At any time they want. Including, apparently under produce and not tell anyone until after they fact.
That said, dumping 25k on the market in the future, under a different product number making no reference to privys, would destroy whatever shred of credibility they have right now, after saying they won't do that. And undermine the value of the 48,206 currently floating around. Even more inconceivable than what they already did. Not gonna happen.
???? They said they will not be sold. And, under the circumstances, that actually makes the most sense.
This was a medal, not a coin. I could see them not making the full 75,000 in case they didn't sell out the initial 50,000. They sold them and salted the full lot of privies into the 50,000, whether intentionally or not, so striking the last 25,000 could be problematic.
That's all she wrote.
@Baycity said:
I can say I was right.
" As I said before the mint does whatever it wants. And NJCoin knows everything." 🤣
Since you enjoy arguing so much with NJ why not send him PM's instead of hijacking a thread for all of us to endure the endless back and forth of your arguments?
What you view as cheap shots were desperate attempts by members to have you both just STOP.
Totally ridiculous.🙄
Thank you for having the initiative to contact the Mint. Great job!😎
No. What's "totally ridiculous" is someone who supposedly has people they find annoying on Ignore, publicly declaring it to anyone who cares in some sort of effort to round up an Ignore posse, being so engaged in their posts, and in others' responses to them.
Don't worry about the posts. Don't worry about the thread. You are neither the post police nor the thread police.
For the umpteenth time, you are not a moderator, and our gracious hosts thoughtfully provide tools to assist the more sensitive among us have their delicate eyes shielded from anything they find the least bit annoying. Nothing is going to "just STOP" as long as you continue to post urging it, and egging others on as they take their own "cheap shots."
Your very posts ironically have the effect of continuing that which you want to "just STOP." 🤣🤣🤣
I post for those interested in what I have to say. Whether it's one person or 100.
I don't go out of my way to annoy anyone, relying on everyone's ability to skim past things they have no interest in, or to place me on Ignore if they feel the need. I have no intention to allow you to dictate to me who I can engage with, and on what terms.
You are not the boss of me. And, as I said, not a moderator of the forum. Not sure why you seem to have such a difficult time accepting that. You are accomplishing nothing other than frustrating yourself with your repeated posts and admonitions, after declaring repeatedly that you are checking out. Over and over and over and over again. "Just STOP." 🤣🤣🤣
It's become absolutely farcical at this point.
Kudos to metroD for finding the answer.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So I still have not opened my package from the Mint with one medal ordered on day one. Deciding now on whether to do so or not.
Actually, it makes perfect sense. So they were wrong. Someone else we know didn't think they would sell 75k.
They also could have had a package shortage or blank shortage. But since they considered striking 25k more, that may not be the case. They also would normally have gone to backorder in this case. It's not that unusual for them to only Mint part of the maximum.
Bottom line: who cares?
Actually, I wasn't referring to cheap shots on this thread but others. Interesting that you think I was referring to you.
The reason I respond publicly is because his misinformation is public, if you must know.
Why don't YOU stop? You claim to know how to use "ignore". You claim to have better things to do. Shouldn't be a problem at all.
Totally agree. I'd like to nominate you to be the moderator of Freddie.
I`m waiting 'till Christmas
Ok. I will place you on Ignore as well. This will prevent me from having to see NJ posts that I have to see when you respond to him by Quote instead of PM or by using @NJCoin.
If I was the only one complaining your points would be valid.
Unlike you and NJ, I can agree to disagree like adults and not continue to post long winded posts claiming I am right and you are wrong.
You two are exhausting.....🙄
Yes, you know what happens when we ASSume things!
I sure do! But, at the end of the day, you either take people and institutions at their word, or you go through life flying blind.
Didn't ASSume anything. Read a Mint press release, and all the accompanying information on its website, and took them at face value. That turns out to have been a mistake.
It's fine. Feel free to castigate me for it. Not stopping me from going out on a limb yet again. And, if 17,500 turns out to be 7,500, I'll be wrong again.
It's fine. Like Charlie Brown with the football, I can't get enough. 😀
No, you assumed they would mint the limit, not understanding that "limit" doesn't mean "production commitment."
But since he firmly believed that they wouldn't be popular or sell out at 75k, i don't see his the 50k mintage is even relevant. They were/are simply more popular than he thought... by a lot.
Again, please stop saying that, because it's not true. That was before they announced the lottery.
As I have repeated said since the day they announced the lottery, these were always going to sell out. Regardless of how many they were going to make.
The question then became whether or not they would accept returns after privys were stripped from packages. Please go back and look if you don't believe me. It's all here, in black and white. Multiple long winded posts. Won't be hard to find.
It will be like searching for a needle in a haystack.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I was talking about before the privy announcement. We are now after the privy lottery and the secondary market remains hotter than you predicted. You predicted $70. Yet, here we are with 50k sold (as many or more than you would have predicted pre-privy) and they have not fallen to that level. Period. Just admit you were wrong about the secondary market price. It's not that hard to say.
It will be like searching for a needle in a needle stack. But it's irrelevant. The lottery is over and the price remains more than double his prediction.
Not every haystack has a needle.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Where are all these 1,794 silver privies? Not seeing very many graded, or even for sale yet, compared to the total. If more showed up, the price would probably be dropping a little more. Same with the "50,000" standard ones. I also thought the actual sales prices would be dropping a little more for 70's at this stage.
I sent mine in for grading and they haven't even opened it and entered it into the system yet.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I don't know what's more hilarious - that NJ spent hundreds of hours on this thread, that his haters lost this epic coin forum battle in the end, or that it only took a short email to the mint to get an answer
These people are deranged.
edit: I posted this before I saw that 50k production cap had been confirmed.
I think you’re confused. The us mint email confirmed that NJ lost. Again.