@tcollects said:
Has anyone here bought one and what was in it?
I bought one just for kicks and it shipped out the evening of 1/25, it was expected to be delivered the afternoon of 1/27 and ended up being delayed until 1/30. In between that time, the two most expensive coins were found and posted on reddit. In addition, I had watched few unboxing videos where the result was 3 silver eagles. My options were:
Open the box, and hope that I get one of the last 1-2k coins or the lone 4k coin, instead of 3 silver eagles valued around $300. If I did get 3 silver eagles, liquidate them or hold on to them in case the slabs becomes a collectible in their own right.
Save the box, sit on it and play the long game. (This option no longer made sense since two of the powerhouse coins had been found)
Sell the box on eBay immediately for $1050, and realize a a little more than a $300 profit after expenses.
I went with option 3.
What are you thinking for the next round, given the muted reaction to Series 2 all over the place, including here? I admit it's tempting to try for a double on eBay, given what happened last time. But I wonder whether a lot of people are going to get the same idea, leading to a frenzy on release day, followed by dozens, or even hundreds, of listings on eBay with no takers.
And that's before the risk of getting stuck with an eBay return, which I didn't even realize was a thing with something like this, until others pointed it out. The one thing I'd hate to do is support these guys by buying something I don't even want, in anticipation of a flip, and then getting stuck with it. Any thoughts?
When I say that I will likely do the same thing again, there was a reason I avoided speaking in absolutes. Around the time of the next launch, I will be observing reddit discussions, social media presence, and YouTube videos and comments surrounding the launch. I will see if they change the way the distribution works, and how easily ill even be able to buy one. Chances are, if its hard for me to even buy a box in the first place, there will be a decent secondary market at least for a short time. Even if the demand was severely reduced, I think the downside would probably be minimal, but its hard to make a determination at this point in time.
Jmlanzaf, congratulations! It appears that NJCoin has finally agreed that VaultBox is a great idea as long as he can flip them to make money!🤣😂
@tcollects said:
Has anyone here bought one and what was in it?
I bought one just for kicks and it shipped out the evening of 1/25, it was expected to be delivered the afternoon of 1/27 and ended up being delayed until 1/30. In between that time, the two most expensive coins were found and posted on reddit. In addition, I had watched few unboxing videos where the result was 3 silver eagles. My options were:
Open the box, and hope that I get one of the last 1-2k coins or the lone 4k coin, instead of 3 silver eagles valued around $300. If I did get 3 silver eagles, liquidate them or hold on to them in case the slabs becomes a collectible in their own right.
Save the box, sit on it and play the long game. (This option no longer made sense since two of the powerhouse coins had been found)
Sell the box on eBay immediately for $1050, and realize a a little more than a $300 profit after expenses.
I went with option 3.
What are you thinking for the next round, given the muted reaction to Series 2 all over the place, including here? I admit it's tempting to try for a double on eBay, given what happened last time. But I wonder whether a lot of people are going to get the same idea, leading to a frenzy on release day, followed by dozens, or even hundreds, of listings on eBay with no takers.
And that's before the risk of getting stuck with an eBay return, which I didn't even realize was a thing with something like this, until others pointed it out. The one thing I'd hate to do is support these guys by buying something I don't even want, in anticipation of a flip, and then getting stuck with it. Any thoughts?
When I say that I will likely do the same thing again, there was a reason I avoided speaking in absolutes. Around the time of the next launch, I will be observing reddit discussions, social media presence, and YouTube videos and comments surrounding the launch. I will see if they change the way the distribution works, and how easily ill even be able to buy one. Chances are, if its hard for me to even buy a box in the first place, there will be a decent secondary market at least for a short time. Even if the demand was severely reduced, I think the downside would probably be minimal, but its hard to make a determination at this point in time.
Jmlanzaf, congratulations! It appears that NJCoin has finally agreed that VaultBox is a great idea as long as he can flip them to make money!🤣😂
Can you believe this guy?🙄
Didn't say it's a great idea. Just said I'd play if I could make a guaranteed profit.
I ALWAYS said I wasn't crying about them being available, or that I was upset that people were buying them. That was always you guys mischaracterizing my criticisms. I just said that they are a sucky, unregulated deal. They still are.
Yes, you guys broke me. Watch for my YouTube video pimping for VB in the very near future. 🤣🤣🤣
When did I graduate from Ignore, anyway? And what do I have to do to go back? It doesn't work if you are going to click on the posts anyway. You REALLY can't control yourself. 🤣
@tcollects said:
Has anyone here bought one and what was in it?
I bought one just for kicks and it shipped out the evening of 1/25, it was expected to be delivered the afternoon of 1/27 and ended up being delayed until 1/30. In between that time, the two most expensive coins were found and posted on reddit. In addition, I had watched few unboxing videos where the result was 3 silver eagles. My options were:
Open the box, and hope that I get one of the last 1-2k coins or the lone 4k coin, instead of 3 silver eagles valued around $300. If I did get 3 silver eagles, liquidate them or hold on to them in case the slabs becomes a collectible in their own right.
Save the box, sit on it and play the long game. (This option no longer made sense since two of the powerhouse coins had been found)
Sell the box on eBay immediately for $1050, and realize a a little more than a $300 profit after expenses.
I went with option 3.
What are you thinking for the next round, given the muted reaction to Series 2 all over the place, including here? I admit it's tempting to try for a double on eBay, given what happened last time. But I wonder whether a lot of people are going to get the same idea, leading to a frenzy on release day, followed by dozens, or even hundreds, of listings on eBay with no takers.
And that's before the risk of getting stuck with an eBay return, which I didn't even realize was a thing with something like this, until others pointed it out. The one thing I'd hate to do is support these guys by buying something I don't even want, in anticipation of a flip, and then getting stuck with it. Any thoughts?
When I say that I will likely do the same thing again, there was a reason I avoided speaking in absolutes. Around the time of the next launch, I will be observing reddit discussions, social media presence, and YouTube videos and comments surrounding the launch. I will see if they change the way the distribution works, and how easily ill even be able to buy one. Chances are, if its hard for me to even buy a box in the first place, there will be a decent secondary market at least for a short time. Even if the demand was severely reduced, I think the downside would probably be minimal, but its hard to make a determination at this point in time.
Jmlanzaf, congratulations! It appears that NJCoin has finally agreed that VaultBox is a great idea as long as he can flip them to make money!🤣😂
Can you believe this guy?🙄
Lol. I've never tried to get anyone to play or not play, despite the lies to the contrary. I just want everyone to let the other people do whatever they want without being called names.
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
Edited to add: if he does flip one, I will laugh till Christmas.
@jmlanzaf said:
Edited to add: if he does flip one, I will laugh till Christmas.
VaultBox making a guaranteed profit from unsuspecting buyers who don't know how to evaluate an offer? Deplorable.
Condescending bystander making a guaranteed profit from unsuspecting buyers who don't know how to evaluate an offer? Muy bueno.
@jmlanzaf said:
Edited to add: if he does flip one, I will laugh till Christmas.
VaultBox making a guaranteed profit from unsuspecting buyers who don't know how to evaluate an offer? Deplorable.
Condescending bystander making a guaranteed profit from unsuspecting buyers who don't know how to evaluate an offer? Muy bueno.
Yeah, I guess it's a horrible buy at $600 but an excellent buy at $1000.
The definition of irony (or is it karma): buying a VB only to discover that your 100,000 word diatribe has killed the secondary market.
@tcollects said:
Has anyone here bought one and what was in it?
I bought one just for kicks and it shipped out the evening of 1/25, it was expected to be delivered the afternoon of 1/27 and ended up being delayed until 1/30. In between that time, the two most expensive coins were found and posted on reddit. In addition, I had watched few unboxing videos where the result was 3 silver eagles. My options were:
Open the box, and hope that I get one of the last 1-2k coins or the lone 4k coin, instead of 3 silver eagles valued around $300. If I did get 3 silver eagles, liquidate them or hold on to them in case the slabs becomes a collectible in their own right.
Save the box, sit on it and play the long game. (This option no longer made sense since two of the powerhouse coins had been found)
Sell the box on eBay immediately for $1050, and realize a a little more than a $300 profit after expenses.
I went with option 3.
What are you thinking for the next round, given the muted reaction to Series 2 all over the place, including here? I admit it's tempting to try for a double on eBay, given what happened last time. But I wonder whether a lot of people are going to get the same idea, leading to a frenzy on release day, followed by dozens, or even hundreds, of listings on eBay with no takers.
And that's before the risk of getting stuck with an eBay return, which I didn't even realize was a thing with something like this, until others pointed it out. The one thing I'd hate to do is support these guys by buying something I don't even want, in anticipation of a flip, and then getting stuck with it. Any thoughts?
When I say that I will likely do the same thing again, there was a reason I avoided speaking in absolutes. Around the time of the next launch, I will be observing reddit discussions, social media presence, and YouTube videos and comments surrounding the launch. I will see if they change the way the distribution works, and how easily ill even be able to buy one. Chances are, if its hard for me to even buy a box in the first place, there will be a decent secondary market at least for a short time. Even if the demand was severely reduced, I think the downside would probably be minimal, but its hard to make a determination at this point in time.
Jmlanzaf, congratulations! It appears that NJCoin has finally agreed that VaultBox is a great idea as long as he can flip them to make money!🤣😂
Can you believe this guy?🙄
Lol. I've never tried to get anyone to play or not play, despite the lies to the contrary. I just want everyone to let the other people do whatever they want without being called names.
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
Edited to add: if he does flip one, I will laugh till Christmas.
Not to worry. I won't. Not because I'm philosophically against making a buck, even using this as a vehicle, but because I will never receive the desired guarantee. And it would serve me right for getting involved with I consider to be garbage, and then getting stuck with it if and when the resale market dries up.
And no, everyone who bought Series 1 certainly did not make out okay. The vast majority are buried, and $300 worth of ASEs are not selling for $600 in VB slabs, boxes included.
If that ever changes, then good for them, and I'll be happy things worked out. But I honestly don't see that happening. What I see happening is people being disappointed, the novelty wearing off, and then, finally, at some point, people buying them to flip being stuck. VB did a very nice job priming the pump for the debut. Maybe too good, because expectations were high and, from most of the feedback everywhere feedback has been posted, people were let down.
I'm not a football card follower, but the link you posted kind of proves my point. It took 8 series, but now those guys have 100 boxes of something they can't get rid of. Call now for volume discounts, they only made 100, and there are less than 100 left. What makes you think that can't happen here?
@SIowhand said:
Clearly, njcoin is an investor in vaultbox and this is his reverse psychology way of promoting it. Negative marketing.
That is the only explanation that makes any sense for all these posts.
If I could live with myself being involved with something like it, I sure would be, because, so far, it's a home run for those involved.
This seems contradictory.
Now that you mention it, you're right. I wouldn't be comfortable screwing people on eBay by flipping it to them, and then having to worry about possible returns. I'll stay out.
I don't pass judgment on those who do, but it's not for me. Thanks for bringing me to my senses. See? I can admit when I'm wrong!
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
The reason I "scored" is because I could flip this now for a profit. Look at sold listings on ebay. This was an outlier, by a lot, and I feel lucky to have gotten it.
And STOP LYING. I have never advocated for buying or not buying. I told you to let people buy what they want without being called stupid.
@jmlanzaf said:
And STOP LYING. I have never advocated for buying or not buying. I told you to let people buy what they want without being called stupid.
Dude! This thread was finally dying. It was on page 2! Now you went and opened Pandoras Box.🤣😂
Also, I thought you were going to put NJCoin on Ignore. Trust me it is awesome except for when I still see his comments when someone hits the quote button and responds to him.🙄
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
The reason I "scored" is because I could flip this now for a profit. Look at sold listings on ebay. This was an outlier, by a lot, and I feel lucky to have gotten it.
And STOP LYING. I have never advocated for buying or not buying. I told you to let people buy what they want without being called stupid.
Please report back after you flip it. It looks like a $50 coin to me. I see one went for $85 two weeks ago, but I also see a 10 that went for $73 the day before. It might not be the $50 home run you think it is, if you don't intend to hold it for your VB collection, so hold off on making retirement plans for the time being. It might not be such an outlier. It might be a canary telling you that the sizzle is already going out of these, because there might not be 2400 people who care about those slabs. TBD.
If you are not advocating buying, you really have nothing to say and should just stop posting because, while you and the others have been claiming that the naysayers have been calling people stupid or arguing these should not be allowed to be sold, nothing could be further from the truth.
I think they are bad buys and that people selling overpriced items count on people making bad decisions to stay in business (Mencken), but never said people should not be allowed to make bad decisions, and NEVER called anyone stupid for being ill informed, or missing red flags or hard to find disclosures. You and your friends then proceeded to repeatedly calling me elitist and condescending for pointing out what others might have missed.
The returns are now in, and I feel very vindicated. If you are not, in fact, an advocate, why are you arguing with me after having the benefit of seeing how the first series turned out? You feel "lucky" for being able to buy a $50 VB coin for $50, a mere month after the unveiling, after it was sold as part of a 3 coin package for $600. You're not so much lucky as your seller was very unlucky to have allowed himself to get swept up in the hype.
You confuse my criticisms with an argument that they should not be allowed to be sold. And, while you deny it, I believe your repeated assertions that people should not be criticized for buying them to be an endorsement. If you are not endorsing, and if you actually agree that they are bad deals, maybe you should stop telling people they should feel free to buy. If you are not a fan, why are you so reluctant to say so?
Dude! This thread was finally dying. It was on page 2! Now you went and opened Pandoras Box.🤣😂
Also, I thought you were going to put NJCoin on Ignore. Trust me it is awesome except for when I still see his comments when someone hits the quote button and responds to him.🙄
I wish our host could fix that!😉
Most importantly, congrats on the score. 🥳
YOU could fix it, by controlling yourself and not looking, or looking and not feeling compelled to share your thoughts with the group, or by not starting these threads in the first place. I wish you could fix that. 😉
Dude! This thread was finally dying. It was on page 2! Now you went and opened Pandoras Box.🤣😂
Also, I thought you were going to put NJCoin on Ignore. Trust me it is awesome except for when I still see his comments when someone hits the quote button and responds to him.🙄
I wish our host could fix that!😉
Most importantly, congrats on the score. 🥳
Lol. Sorry, I'm weak. I knew he replied and I couldn't help but look.
Anyway, I wanted a VB slab and I got one at a good price. So it's all good.
@jmlanzaf said:
And STOP LYING. I have never advocated for buying or not buying. I told you to let people buy what they want without being called stupid.
That's still happening? Sad.
It will never end. Lol
@WAYNEAS said:
I’d rather spend my money on a lottery ticket, the odds are the same but the payoffs are so much higher.
Wayne
What state are you in where the lottery has 1:2400 odds? Jk
I have it in not so good authority that all lotteries are for commoners.
@jmlanzaf said:
And STOP LYING. I have never advocated for buying or not buying. I told you to let people buy what they want without being called stupid.
That's still happening? Sad.
It will never end. Lol
@WAYNEAS said:
I’d rather spend my money on a lottery ticket, the odds are the same but the payoffs are so much higher.
Wayne
What state are you in where the lottery has 1:2400 odds? Jk
I have it in not so good authority that all lotteries are for commoners.
They are. Wealthy people don't chase additional wealth by playing games with an expected negative 50% return. Less wealthy people subsidize the taxes of those better off by doing so. Suckers game with a few winners and many losers. Sound like anything else we have been talking about? Except here, the recipients of the subsidy are not taxpayers, but the owners of VB, above and beyond whatever profit coin dealers normally make retailing coins.
I don't think he meant that lotteries have a 0.125% chance (1 in 800, not 2400, since there are only 800 "rare" coins in every series!) of returning the top prize. I don't want to speak for anyone, but I took it to mean that they return around 50 cents of every dollar spent (and, to be fair, VB did better -- that was the most common return, but not the average, since it does not account for the few nice scores; VB also did not come close to the 90%+ return of customer money that they implied they would in their pre-release marketing blitz), but have a MUCH higher upside than $23,000 AND don't require a $600 minimum investment.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE, which is really nothing more than one ounce of unremarkable bullion in a slab.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags because they are good, trusting people who gave people the benefit of the doubt and were taken advantage of.
Now, if those same people go back for seconds, that will be another story. But all indications, from all public posts, both here and elsewhere, show that most people are not stupid and that won't be happening. I think the greater fool theory will take over for the next round, and people will buy anticipating an easy flip. If that flip fails to materialize, that will be the beginning of the end of this.
I haven't been shy about sharing my observations, thoughts and feelings. I'm on the record, and I've been right so far, at least with respect to what the product is, what it isn't, and the issues, both perceived and real, with the method of distribution. Let's see whether or not that continues.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is quickly going off the rails and turning into a back and forth between the two of us that is completely devoid of coins, so I am going to stop. Feel free to get in the last word (as I am sure you will), and feel free to report me if you wish. However, for the record I never made an unwarranted personal attack.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is quickly going off the rails and turning into a back and forth between the two of us that is completely devoid of coins, so I am going to stop. Feel free to get in the last word (as I am sure you will), and feel free to report me if you wish. However, for the record I never made an unwarranted personal attack.
I consider calling me condescending to be an attack, but it's all good. Unlike others, I can take as good as I give. I have never reported anyone, and don't anticipate ever doing so.
I try to stay clear of any lines that will get me in trouble. I am sure others have reported me, just as they've blamed me for getting threads shut down. But, at least to this point, while some clearly find my posts to be redundant and annoying, I do not believe I have violated any TOS, and I have not received any warnings from anyone in authority.
I have no interest in continuing this, or of starting any new threads related to the topic. But I am not going to sit silently while others promote it, while claiming they are not doing so. Anyone who is interested in it now knows where to find it, without it ever being mentioned again on this forum. If people stop posting about it, they won't have to be annoyed by my responses.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags because they are good, trusting people who gave people the benefit of the doubt and were taken advantage of.
Now, if those same people go back for seconds, that will be another story. But all indications, from all public posts, both here and elsewhere, show that most people are not stupid and that won't be happening. I think the greater fool theory will take over for the next round, and people will buy anticipating an easy flip. If that flip fails to materialize, that will be the beginning of the end of this.
I haven't been shy about sharing my observations, thoughts and feelings. I'm on the record, and I've been right so far, at least with respect to what the product is, what it isn't, and the issues, both perceived and real, with the method of distribution. Let's see whether or not that continues.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
FIND ONE POST WHERE I EVER TOLD ANYONE TO BUY ONE or even suggested it was a good value.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags because they are good, trusting people who gave people the benefit of the doubt and were taken advantage of.
Now, if those same people go back for seconds, that will be another story. But all indications, from all public posts, both here and elsewhere, show that most people are not stupid and that won't be happening. I think the greater fool theory will take over for the next round, and people will buy anticipating an easy flip. If that flip fails to materialize, that will be the beginning of the end of this.
I haven't been shy about sharing my observations, thoughts and feelings. I'm on the record, and I've been right so far, at least with respect to what the product is, what it isn't, and the issues, both perceived and real, with the method of distribution. Let's see whether or not that continues.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
FIND ONE POST WHERE I EVER TOLD ANYONE TO BUY ONE or even suggested it was a good value.
This strikes me as an updated version of "unsearched" bags of wheat cents, unopened proof sets, sealed CC Morgans, etc. It's basically a roll of the dice. There will be some winners, but probably the majority will be
losers (at least related to current values). If you enjoy the thrill of the process, so be it. To me, the joy of collecting
is seeing the coin(s) and making a decision of 1) I like this coin, here's my money or 2) Thanks, but I'll pass. I've
played blackjack for $10.00 a hand and set a limit of how much I'll lose in total. (It's less than $600). For that
amount of money, I want to see the coin(s). I've worked too hard to earn discretionary funds to use for my collection
to gamble with them.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags because they are good, trusting people who gave people the benefit of the doubt and were taken advantage of.
Now, if those same people go back for seconds, that will be another story. But all indications, from all public posts, both here and elsewhere, show that most people are not stupid and that won't be happening. I think the greater fool theory will take over for the next round, and people will buy anticipating an easy flip. If that flip fails to materialize, that will be the beginning of the end of this.
I haven't been shy about sharing my observations, thoughts and feelings. I'm on the record, and I've been right so far, at least with respect to what the product is, what it isn't, and the issues, both perceived and real, with the method of distribution. Let's see whether or not that continues.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
FIND ONE POST WHERE I EVER TOLD ANYONE TO BUY ONE or even suggested it was a good value.
It should be easy, right?
ONE POST!
Until then, keep my name outta your mouth.
I don't see your name anywhere in the quote above, but, if I were properly motivated, I'm sure I could find dozens of posts in all of the VB threads where you imply, if not outright say, that participating in this offering is a swell idea.
Why don't you just come out and say that you think it's a bad value, if that's what you think? Because you don't want to discourage anyone from buying something that you think is a bad value?
If so, that's a form of support. When else are you shy about sharing what you think or feel about something related to coins?
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider.
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags because they are good, trusting people who gave people the benefit of the doubt and were taken advantage of.
Now, if those same people go back for seconds, that will be another story. But all indications, from all public posts, both here and elsewhere, show that most people are not stupid and that won't be happening. I think the greater fool theory will take over for the next round, and people will buy anticipating an easy flip. If that flip fails to materialize, that will be the beginning of the end of this.
I haven't been shy about sharing my observations, thoughts and feelings. I'm on the record, and I've been right so far, at least with respect to what the product is, what it isn't, and the issues, both perceived and real, with the method of distribution. Let's see whether or not that continues.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
FIND ONE POST WHERE I EVER TOLD ANYONE TO BUY ONE or even suggested it was a good value.
It should be easy, right?
ONE POST!
Until then, keep my name outta your mouth.
Damn, that was a Will Smith moment!😂🤣
It sure was. I don't know know why anyone would want to emulate that, though. It doesn't seem to have done anything to enhance his life, reputation or career.
I wonder what your level of engagement with me would be if I wasn't on Ignore? 😂🤣
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
They don't all buy them. It's the same as with coins. Some people play, others prefer to pick their coins one at a time.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
It is amazing what has happened in some of the modern card sectors. As you say, they are all pretty common, yet prices have soared in recent years...well, except for baseball. Lol.
There's also a glut of different offerings, which you would think would have diluted the market but it really hasn't.
@telephoto1 said:
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
It is amazing what has happened in some of the modern card sectors. As you say, they are all pretty common, yet prices have soared in recent years...well, except for baseball. Lol.
There's also a glut of different offerings, which you would think would have diluted the market but it really hasn't.
True, and my take is this: Kids of the 80s/90s when the card market and accompanying production started going crazy are now adults with greater marginal propensity to consume. These are things of their childhood that they can now afford to collect/ flip/ speculate on. Thus driving the market.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
H.L. Mencken wasn't wrong, even if some think I'm an elitist for saying it.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
It is amazing what has happened in some of the modern card sectors. As you say, they are all pretty common, yet prices have soared in recent years...well, except for baseball. Lol.
There's also a glut of different offerings, which you would think would have diluted the market but it really hasn't.
Except, ironically, for one of the ones you posted:
It is a limited edition of only 100, and yet it sits, unloved and unpurchased.
There is no guarantee the same thing won't happen here. There doesn't seem to be the same level of buzz about it in the card market as in the coin market, and most coin collectors don't seem to be too pleased with their outcomes.
Thus the survey and promise to make it better. The only question now is whether "fool me once..." will kick in, or whether there are enough people to line up and take a shot.
As I said before, I think the next one will sell out because people always seem to think that past performance is indicative of future results, so $1200 sales on eBay will attract people until that stops. Which could easily occur with the next series, given the average value of what's actually inside sealed boxes.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
This wasn't overproduced, and no one seems to be buying it. Don't be so sure. While you're a huge fan, I don't see you taking out a loan to get involved.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
It is amazing what has happened in some of the modern card sectors. As you say, they are all pretty common, yet prices have soared in recent years...well, except for baseball. Lol.
There's also a glut of different offerings, which you would think would have diluted the market but it really hasn't.
Except, ironically, for one of the ones you posted:
It is a limited edition of only 100, and yet it sits, unloved and unpurchased.
There is no guarantee the same thing won't happen here. There doesn't seem to be the same level of buzz about it in the card market as in the coin market, and most coin collectors don't seem to be too pleased with their outcomes.
Thus the survey and promise to make it better. The only question now is whether "fool me once..." will kick in, or whether there are enough people to line up and take a shot.
As I said before, I think the next one will sell out because people always seem to think that past performance is indicative of future results, so $1200 sales on eBay will attract people until that stops. Which could easily occur with the next series, given the average value of what's actually inside sealed boxes.
One track mind. I'm talking about card prices, not hobby boxes.
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
@jmlanzaf said:
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE, which is really nothing more than one ounce of unremarkable bullion in a slab.
unless one of his other coins was a score, then this is a throw away. If I hit something like the V75 gold, I wouldn't give a rip about the other two coins.
Comments
.> @DeplorableDan said:
Jmlanzaf, congratulations! It appears that NJCoin has finally agreed that VaultBox is a great idea as long as he can flip them to make money!🤣😂
Can you believe this guy?🙄
Didn't say it's a great idea. Just said I'd play if I could make a guaranteed profit.
I ALWAYS said I wasn't crying about them being available, or that I was upset that people were buying them. That was always you guys mischaracterizing my criticisms. I just said that they are a sucky, unregulated deal. They still are.
Yes, you guys broke me. Watch for my YouTube video pimping for VB in the very near future. 🤣🤣🤣
When did I graduate from Ignore, anyway? And what do I have to do to go back? It doesn't work if you are going to click on the posts anyway. You REALLY can't control yourself. 🤣
Lol. I've never tried to get anyone to play or not play, despite the lies to the contrary. I just want everyone to let the other people do whatever they want without being called names.
Someday, he'll even admit that everyone who bought series 1 made out okay. Prices for both the boxes and individual coins have been strong in the secondary market.
Edited to add: if he does flip one, I will laugh till Christmas.
VaultBox making a guaranteed profit from unsuspecting buyers who don't know how to evaluate an offer? Deplorable.
Condescending bystander making a guaranteed profit from unsuspecting buyers who don't know how to evaluate an offer? Muy bueno.
Clearly, njcoin is an investor in vaultbox and this is his reverse psychology way of promoting it. Negative marketing.
That is the only explanation that makes any sense for all these posts.
Yeah, I guess it's a horrible buy at $600 but an excellent buy at $1000.
The definition of irony (or is it karma): buying a VB only to discover that your 100,000 word diatribe has killed the secondary market.
Not to worry. I won't. Not because I'm philosophically against making a buck, even using this as a vehicle, but because I will never receive the desired guarantee. And it would serve me right for getting involved with I consider to be garbage, and then getting stuck with it if and when the resale market dries up.
And no, everyone who bought Series 1 certainly did not make out okay. The vast majority are buried, and $300 worth of ASEs are not selling for $600 in VB slabs, boxes included.
If that ever changes, then good for them, and I'll be happy things worked out. But I honestly don't see that happening. What I see happening is people being disappointed, the novelty wearing off, and then, finally, at some point, people buying them to flip being stuck. VB did a very nice job priming the pump for the debut. Maybe too good, because expectations were high and, from most of the feedback everywhere feedback has been posted, people were let down.
I'm not a football card follower, but the link you posted kind of proves my point. It took 8 series, but now those guys have 100 boxes of something they can't get rid of. Call now for volume discounts, they only made 100, and there are less than 100 left. What makes you think that can't happen here?
If I could live with myself being involved with something like it, I sure would be, because, so far, it's a home run for those involved.
This seems contradictory.
Now that you mention it, you're right. I wouldn't be comfortable screwing people on eBay by flipping it to them, and then having to worry about possible returns. I'll stay out.
I don't pass judgment on those who do, but it's not for me. Thanks for bringing me to my senses. See? I can admit when I'm wrong!
I'm very excited. I scored!!
Congratulations!!! Do you think the person who sold that to you, who paid an average of $200 for it, would agree with the statement you made below on February 21st?
The price you paid appears to be right in line with what MS69 2015 ASEs go for on eBay. Hardly "strong."
Good for you, especially if you think the slab is ever going to be worth something. The fact that you were able to get such a score, so soon after issuance, indicates otherwise. Bad for the person who bought into the hype and bought that coin, along with two others, probably worth slightly more, for $600.
Only 2400 in existence. Quick sell out. And already, no material premium in the marketplace. You just delivered a 50-75% haircut to someone within a month of purchase, and have the nerve to accuse me of treating those who participated in the frenzy condescendingly.
At least to me, it looks like you treat those same people with contempt by advocating for them to make the purchase, which you then graciously agree to take off their hands soon thereafter at very significant discounts to the purchase price. I'm sure anyone selling to you now wishes they would have taken my advice instead.
The exact opposite of "okay," unless okay is defined as losing less than $400 per box. At least now you're a buyer, albeit at a huge discount to issue price. Now you have a real, economic reason to talk these, and future series, up. Looks a lot like buying a timeshare on the resale market after the initial buyer realizes he bought a turd.
The reason I "scored" is because I could flip this now for a profit. Look at sold listings on ebay. This was an outlier, by a lot, and I feel lucky to have gotten it.
And STOP LYING. I have never advocated for buying or not buying. I told you to let people buy what they want without being called stupid.
That's still happening? Sad.
I’d rather spend my money on a lottery ticket, the odds are the same but the payoffs are so much higher.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Dude! This thread was finally dying. It was on page 2! Now you went and opened Pandoras Box.🤣😂
Also, I thought you were going to put NJCoin on Ignore. Trust me it is awesome except for when I still see his comments when someone hits the quote button and responds to him.🙄
I wish our host could fix that!😉
Most importantly, congrats on the score. 🥳
Please report back after you flip it. It looks like a $50 coin to me. I see one went for $85 two weeks ago, but I also see a 10 that went for $73 the day before. It might not be the $50 home run you think it is, if you don't intend to hold it for your VB collection, so hold off on making retirement plans for the time being. It might not be such an outlier. It might be a canary telling you that the sizzle is already going out of these, because there might not be 2400 people who care about those slabs. TBD.
If you are not advocating buying, you really have nothing to say and should just stop posting because, while you and the others have been claiming that the naysayers have been calling people stupid or arguing these should not be allowed to be sold, nothing could be further from the truth.
I think they are bad buys and that people selling overpriced items count on people making bad decisions to stay in business (Mencken), but never said people should not be allowed to make bad decisions, and NEVER called anyone stupid for being ill informed, or missing red flags or hard to find disclosures. You and your friends then proceeded to repeatedly calling me elitist and condescending for pointing out what others might have missed.
The returns are now in, and I feel very vindicated. If you are not, in fact, an advocate, why are you arguing with me after having the benefit of seeing how the first series turned out? You feel "lucky" for being able to buy a $50 VB coin for $50, a mere month after the unveiling, after it was sold as part of a 3 coin package for $600. You're not so much lucky as your seller was very unlucky to have allowed himself to get swept up in the hype.
You confuse my criticisms with an argument that they should not be allowed to be sold. And, while you deny it, I believe your repeated assertions that people should not be criticized for buying them to be an endorsement. If you are not endorsing, and if you actually agree that they are bad deals, maybe you should stop telling people they should feel free to buy. If you are not a fan, why are you so reluctant to say so?
YOU could fix it, by controlling yourself and not looking, or looking and not feeling compelled to share your thoughts with the group, or by not starting these threads in the first place. I wish you could fix that. 😉
Lol. Sorry, I'm weak. I knew he replied and I couldn't help but look.
Anyway, I wanted a VB slab and I got one at a good price. So it's all good.
It will never end. Lol
What state are you in where the lottery has 1:2400 odds? Jk
I have it in not so good authority that all lotteries are for commoners.
They are. Wealthy people don't chase additional wealth by playing games with an expected negative 50% return. Less wealthy people subsidize the taxes of those better off by doing so. Suckers game with a few winners and many losers. Sound like anything else we have been talking about? Except here, the recipients of the subsidy are not taxpayers, but the owners of VB, above and beyond whatever profit coin dealers normally make retailing coins.
I don't think he meant that lotteries have a 0.125% chance (1 in 800, not 2400, since there are only 800 "rare" coins in every series!) of returning the top prize. I don't want to speak for anyone, but I took it to mean that they return around 50 cents of every dollar spent (and, to be fair, VB did better -- that was the most common return, but not the average, since it does not account for the few nice scores; VB also did not come close to the 90%+ return of customer money that they implied they would in their pre-release marketing blitz), but have a MUCH higher upside than $23,000 AND don't require a $600 minimum investment.
How do you know that the seller lost any money or that they wished they would have taken your advice? Do you know what their other two coins were?
That's your biggest problem. You think you're smarter and better than most other people.
Philippians 4:4-7
I know that the seller lost money on that one coin, since the implied value was far greater than $49 when it was one of 3 in a $600 sealed box. The odds are almost 100% that the other two coins in any given box did not exceed $550. I don't know about "most" people, but, yeah, I'm smarter than anyone who does not realize that.
I'm pretty sure no one sunk $595, plus shipping, in a VB with the intention of dumping one of the coins a month later for $49, with free shipping. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that person wishes they didn't get involved. Clearly didn't buy it to build a VB Series 1 slab collection. Clearly didn't make out, at least not with a 2015 MS69 ASE, which is really nothing more than one ounce of unremarkable bullion in a slab.
LOL You're pretty sure... I'm pretty sure of something too, but I don't want to type it and get banned.
Philippians 4:4-7
You don't have to. I'm pretty sure of that too. Maybe I'm just a little sharper than you give me credit for. 😂
I was happy to get a slab I wanted and it's just lost all its luster. Sigh... that's exactly why the fun police are dangerous to the hobby.
I never said you weren't sharp. In fact you seem highly intelligent, however, your condescending attitude and the way you keep beating a dead horse are quite annoying. I'm petty sure
everyone on this message board knows that you think VB is stupid and the people who bought one are even stupider. 
Philippians 4:4-7
Fair enough. And everyone also knows that others "neither support nor oppose," yet they are similarly compelled to create new threads and then post to them. For the record, while I continually respond, I have never felt the need to start a VB thread.
And, no, I REALLY don't think most people who bought are stupid. I think they were misled, did not see disclosures buried in a website, and failed to spot red flags because they are good, trusting people who gave people the benefit of the doubt and were taken advantage of.
Now, if those same people go back for seconds, that will be another story. But all indications, from all public posts, both here and elsewhere, show that most people are not stupid and that won't be happening. I think the greater fool theory will take over for the next round, and people will buy anticipating an easy flip. If that flip fails to materialize, that will be the beginning of the end of this.
I haven't been shy about sharing my observations, thoughts and feelings. I'm on the record, and I've been right so far, at least with respect to what the product is, what it isn't, and the issues, both perceived and real, with the method of distribution. Let's see whether or not that continues.
Calling me condescending is nothing more than an unwarranted personal attack provoked by my attempt to warn when others were supporting a product that they are now claiming was not support of the product, but only support of the right to offer it for sale. A right I NEVER disputed.
I keep beating a dead horse that others keep standing up. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is quickly going off the rails and turning into a back and forth between the two of us that is completely devoid of coins, so I am going to stop. Feel free to get in the last word (as I am sure you will), and feel free to report me if you wish. However, for the record I never made an unwarranted personal attack.
Philippians 4:4-7
I consider calling me condescending to be an attack, but it's all good. Unlike others, I can take as good as I give. I have never reported anyone, and don't anticipate ever doing so.
I try to stay clear of any lines that will get me in trouble. I am sure others have reported me, just as they've blamed me for getting threads shut down. But, at least to this point, while some clearly find my posts to be redundant and annoying, I do not believe I have violated any TOS, and I have not received any warnings from anyone in authority.
I have no interest in continuing this, or of starting any new threads related to the topic. But I am not going to sit silently while others promote it, while claiming they are not doing so. Anyone who is interested in it now knows where to find it, without it ever being mentioned again on this forum. If people stop posting about it, they won't have to be annoyed by my responses.
You've just given me the new tag line...
The goods aren't odd, but the odds aren't good.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
https://www.entrepreneur.com/living/10-behaviors-people-find-condescending/346238
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Condescending (NSFW)
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/condescending
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/condescending
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ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
FIND ONE POST WHERE I EVER TOLD ANYONE TO BUY ONE or even suggested it was a good value.
It should be easy, right?
ONE POST!
Until then, keep my name outta your mouth.
Still happening? Sad.
Damn, that was a Will Smith moment!😂🤣
This strikes me as an updated version of "unsearched" bags of wheat cents, unopened proof sets, sealed CC Morgans, etc. It's basically a roll of the dice. There will be some winners, but probably the majority will be
losers (at least related to current values). If you enjoy the thrill of the process, so be it. To me, the joy of collecting
is seeing the coin(s) and making a decision of 1) I like this coin, here's my money or 2) Thanks, but I'll pass. I've
played blackjack for $10.00 a hand and set a limit of how much I'll lose in total. (It's less than $600). For that
amount of money, I want to see the coin(s). I've worked too hard to earn discretionary funds to use for my collection
to gamble with them.
You don't talk to many card guys then. I'm buddies with several and they whine worse than any numismatist, LOL.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I don't see your name anywhere in the quote above, but, if I were properly motivated, I'm sure I could find dozens of posts in all of the VB threads where you imply, if not outright say, that participating in this offering is a swell idea.
Why don't you just come out and say that you think it's a bad value, if that's what you think? Because you don't want to discourage anyone from buying something that you think is a bad value?
If so, that's a form of support. When else are you shy about sharing what you think or feel about something related to coins?
And yet they keep buying the card boxes....just like people will keep buying the VaultBox....as long as they don't get greedy and overproduce them😎
It sure was. I don't know know why anyone would want to emulate that, though. It doesn't seem to have done anything to enhance his life, reputation or career.
I wonder what your level of engagement with me would be if I wasn't on Ignore? 😂🤣
Even that didn't stop card buyers. Modern cards get printed like wallpaper. I've long believed in the "if you build it, they will come", and "bigger fool" theories...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
They don't all buy them. It's the same as with coins. Some people play, others prefer to pick their coins one at a time.
It is amazing what has happened in some of the modern card sectors. As you say, they are all pretty common, yet prices have soared in recent years...well, except for baseball. Lol.
There's also a glut of different offerings, which you would think would have diluted the market but it really hasn't.
True, and my take is this: Kids of the 80s/90s when the card market and accompanying production started going crazy are now adults with greater marginal propensity to consume. These are things of their childhood that they can now afford to collect/ flip/ speculate on. Thus driving the market.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
H.L. Mencken wasn't wrong, even if some think I'm an elitist for saying it.
Except, ironically, for one of the ones you posted:
https://www.dacardworld.com/sports-cards/2022-hit-parade-football-case-hits-sapphire-edition-series-8-hobby-10-box-case-josh-allen
It is a limited edition of only 100, and yet it sits, unloved and unpurchased.
There is no guarantee the same thing won't happen here. There doesn't seem to be the same level of buzz about it in the card market as in the coin market, and most coin collectors don't seem to be too pleased with their outcomes.
Thus the survey and promise to make it better. The only question now is whether "fool me once..." will kick in, or whether there are enough people to line up and take a shot.
As I said before, I think the next one will sell out because people always seem to think that past performance is indicative of future results, so $1200 sales on eBay will attract people until that stops. Which could easily occur with the next series, given the average value of what's actually inside sealed boxes.
https://www.dacardworld.com/sports-cards/2022-hit-parade-football-case-hits-sapphire-edition-series-8-hobby-10-box-case-josh-allen
This wasn't overproduced, and no one seems to be buying it. Don't be so sure. While you're a huge fan, I don't see you taking out a loan to get involved.
One track mind. I'm talking about card prices, not hobby boxes.
unless one of his other coins was a score, then this is a throw away. If I hit something like the V75 gold, I wouldn't give a rip about the other two coins.
Hobby boxes? They're not a very good investment, I'm told.