@fathom said:
The risk is the gambling act associated with modern collectible coins, and does that create unhappy consumers.
Scratchoff lottery tickets don't leave you with anything but a piece of cardboard and some silvery stuff when you lose. They've been around for decades and, at least in my experience when stopping at the minimart for a coke, they're just as popular as ever. I never hear anybody complaining. With these coin boxes, you might not hit the jackpot but you still end up with something of value. Is it totally out of the question to consider the possibility that the people who are buying them actually do understand what they're getting?
Seems to me, the people who are the most unhappy about the boxes are those arguing against them, apparently in an attempt to convince others to not buy them or just worried that somebody, somewhere isn't smart enough to know what they're spending their own money on.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
No you will not hear it there because the valuations are different. It's all about the opportunity cost and opportunity loss.
You aren't buying $5 lottery tickets or $100 card boxes. There is potential several hundred dollar losses on these boxes. That is significant. Its gambling, plain and simple. I have a problem with enticing gambling in collectible coins.
Um...the cost of a sports card hobby box can cost much more than the VaultBox
Not enticed with $20K cards. Contents listed values matching cost etc. Do not conflate apples with oranges. You will be misleading people.
They are enticed with high value cards. Maybe not $20k but multiple hundreds or a couple thousand. It is EXACTLY the same game. It's where the VB folks got the idea.
Card hobby boxes will have 3+ slabbed cards in them. Among the possible cards will be a Babe Ruth or a Mickey Mantle. In some cases it is a more modern limited edition card or autographed card.
Most buyers get a set of relatively common cards and a few lucky people get very high value cards.
Please research it before you keep arguing that it is something different. It is actually you who are accidentally misleading people.
Vast difference between 20K and "couple thousand". Either way its gambling but not the same enticement. Do some research on gambling and enticement. Its a real thing and its illegal in some States without proper licensing.
Why the defense of straight gambling in the marketplace? How does that help the collectability of modern coins?
I have an issue with the TV marketers as well. It potentially invites govt. regulation, its not necessary. The WSJ ad is a prime example of proper marketing of the new NGCX scale. Lets leave it at that. Let the scale infiltrate the marketplace on its own merits.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
@fathom said:
The risk is the gambling act associated with modern collectible coins, and does that create unhappy consumers.
Scratchoff lottery tickets don't leave you with anything but a piece of cardboard and some silvery stuff when you lose. They've been around for decades and, at least in my experience when stopping at the minimart for a coke, they're just as popular as ever. I never hear anybody complaining. With these coin boxes, you might not hit the jackpot but you still end up with something of value. Is it totally out of the question to consider the possibility that the people who are buying them actually do understand what they're getting?
Seems to me, the people who are the most unhappy about the boxes are those arguing against them, apparently in an attempt to convince others to not buy them or just worried that somebody, somewhere isn't smart enough to know what they're spending their own money on.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
No you will not hear it there because the valuations are different. It's all about the opportunity cost and opportunity loss.
You aren't buying $5 lottery tickets or $100 card boxes. There is potential several hundred dollar losses on these boxes. That is significant. Its gambling, plain and simple. I have a problem with enticing gambling in collectible coins.
Um...the cost of a sports card hobby box can cost much more than the VaultBox
Not enticed with $20K cards. Contents listed values matching cost etc. Do not conflate apples with oranges. You will be misleading people.
They are enticed with high value cards. Maybe not $20k but multiple hundreds or a couple thousand. It is EXACTLY the same game. It's where the VB folks got the idea.
Card hobby boxes will have 3+ slabbed cards in them. Among the possible cards will be a Babe Ruth or a Mickey Mantle. In some cases it is a more modern limited edition card or autographed card.
Most buyers get a set of relatively common cards and a few lucky people get very high value cards.
Please research it before you keep arguing that it is something different. It is actually you who are accidentally misleading people.
Vast difference between 20K and "couple thousand". Either way its gambling but not the same enticement. Do some research on gambling and enticement. Its a real thing and its illegal in some States without proper licensing.
Why the defense of straight gambling in the marketplace? How does that help the collectability of modern coins?
I have an issue with the TV marketers as well. It potentially invites govt. regulation, its not necessary. The WSJ ad is a prime example of proper marketing of the new NGCX scale. Lets leave it at that. Let the scale infiltrate the marketplace on its own merits.
I don't have a problem with gambling. And i mostly just want people to be able to male their own choices. Our sub-discussion is just trying to clarify that the VB is exactly the same as the card hobby boxes.
Now please stop over on one of joeycoins 2 or 3 sweepstakes threads and tell him to stop promoting gambling. Everyone wants to jump on VB but they just keep congratulating Joey. Let's at least be consistent.
"Male" their own choices?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
@fathom said:
The risk is the gambling act associated with modern collectible coins, and does that create unhappy consumers.
Scratchoff lottery tickets don't leave you with anything but a piece of cardboard and some silvery stuff when you lose. They've been around for decades and, at least in my experience when stopping at the minimart for a coke, they're just as popular as ever. I never hear anybody complaining. With these coin boxes, you might not hit the jackpot but you still end up with something of value. Is it totally out of the question to consider the possibility that the people who are buying them actually do understand what they're getting?
Seems to me, the people who are the most unhappy about the boxes are those arguing against them, apparently in an attempt to convince others to not buy them or just worried that somebody, somewhere isn't smart enough to know what they're spending their own money on.
The negative Nellie's simply don't know or won't acknowledge that these boxes have been in the card market for years. I don't see an outcry by card collectors that they were robbed.
No you will not hear it there because the valuations are different. It's all about the opportunity cost and opportunity loss.
You aren't buying $5 lottery tickets or $100 card boxes. There is potential several hundred dollar losses on these boxes. That is significant. Its gambling, plain and simple. I have a problem with enticing gambling in collectible coins.
Um...the cost of a sports card hobby box can cost much more than the VaultBox
Not enticed with $20K cards. Contents listed values matching cost etc. Do not conflate apples with oranges. You will be misleading people.
They are enticed with high value cards. Maybe not $20k but multiple hundreds or a couple thousand. It is EXACTLY the same game. It's where the VB folks got the idea.
Card hobby boxes will have 3+ slabbed cards in them. Among the possible cards will be a Babe Ruth or a Mickey Mantle. In some cases it is a more modern limited edition card or autographed card.
Most buyers get a set of relatively common cards and a few lucky people get very high value cards.
Please research it before you keep arguing that it is something different. It is actually you who are accidentally misleading people.
Vast difference between 20K and "couple thousand". Either way its gambling but not the same enticement. Do some research on gambling and enticement. Its a real thing and its illegal in some States without proper licensing.
Why the defense of straight gambling in the marketplace? How does that help the collectability of modern coins?
I have an issue with the TV marketers as well. It potentially invites govt. regulation, its not necessary. The WSJ ad is a prime example of proper marketing of the new NGCX scale. Lets leave it at that. Let the scale infiltrate the marketplace on its own merits.
I don't have a problem with gambling. And i mostly just want people to be able to male their own choices. Our sub-discussion is just trying to clarify that the VB is exactly the same as the card hobby boxes.
Now please stop over on one of joeycoins 2 or 3 sweepstakes threads and tell him to stop promoting gambling. Everyone wants to jump on VB but they just keep congratulating Joey. Let's at least be consistent.
@jmlanzaf said:
I don't have a problem with gambling.
Not everyone agrees.
Some people are organically unable to agree. The same people who can't stop criticizing VB are now DEFENDING the hobby boxes. Oddly, it seems like they could (should?) criticize both. It's not like the existence of the hobby boxes validates VB.
Quick poll:
1. Are they defending/separating hobby boxes because they need VB to be the WORST invention ever?
2. Are the defending/separating hobby boxes just because I mentioned them?
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
I'm not supporting hobby boxes. I'm not familiar with them. I'm familiar with coin collecting. Throwing 3 bullion coins in slabs and sealing them in plastic boxes at huge markups with the potential for a lottery win is not coin collecting.
I also have no idea what a "fake sales price" is. Are you suggesting they are engaging in consumer fraud by representing a discount from a price that was not a bona fide selling price without labeling them as such? If so, very classy. VB is smart to model itself after that industry.
Also, for the record, automobiles have been mostly selling at premiums to MSRP since shortly after the pandemic started, going on 3 years now, so there's that. You're clearly not an expert in everything.
I don't approve or disapprove. I'm just stating what it is. And anyone interesting in participating in unregulated games of chance is absolutely free to do so. I gamble, but not in unregulated games with terrible odds, which is exactly what VB is.
For the first round, not everyone was able to spot what I did ahead of time, and I'm pretty sure many more of them were disappointed than were ecstatic with their outcomes. I don't think they deserve what they got, although all the disclosures and all the red flags were there for anyone willing to see them. Greed overcame fear and common sense, and they got screwed. I really don't think too many people had "fun" when they broke open a seal and watched $300 disappear. We'll just have to see how many go back for seconds, based on a promise of even more value the next time around.
Unlike others, I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In this case, it really looks like my skepticism was well founded, although nothing short of confessions from all involved will ever be good enough for you. Fine, but you're still not putting your money where your mouth is, so your "consistent support" is very, very cheap to the point of being worthless for anyone on the sidelines looking for guidance.
Now people know exactly what it is. We'll see just how long enthusiasm lasts. My guess is that there will always be people willing to play. I'm honestly not judging, although you know exactly what I think. I'm still not sure why you are such an ardent supporter of something you don't think is worthy of your own hard earned money, but, whatever.
The frenzy will finally die down if we ever get to the point that people cannot profitably dump unopened boxes on eBay. That could be Series 2, Series 10, or whatever, but it's destined to come, since the boxes represent terrible value.
Posting a link to a card series that has no takers, with or without a discount, several days after release does not inspire confidence in the future of this. Not sure why you did that. In the meantime, I don't blame the good folks behind VB one bit for taking the wisdom of Mr. Mencken to heart and making what they can while they can. I do, however, blame you for encouraging people to buy something you wouldn't go near yourself, and for repeatedly castigating me for expressing an honest opinion.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
I'm not supporting hobby boxes. I'm not familiar with them. I'm familiar with coin collecting. Throwing 3 bullion coins in slabs and sealing them in plastic boxes at huge markups with the potential for a lottery win is not coin collecting.
I also have no idea what a "fake sales price" is. Are you suggesting they are engaging in consumer fraud by representing a discount from a price that was not a bona fide selling price without labeling them as such? If so, very classy. VB is smart to model itself after that industry.
Also, for the record, automobiles have been mostly selling at premiums to MSRP since shortly after the pandemic started, going on 3 years now, so there's that. You're clearly not an expert in everything.
I don't approve or disapprove. I'm just stating what it is. And anyone interesting in participating in unregulated games of chance is absolutely free to do so. I gamble, but not in unregulated games with terrible odds, which is exactly what VB is.
For the first round, not everyone was able to spot what I did ahead of time, and I'm pretty sure many more of them were disappointed than were ecstatic with their outcomes. I don't think they deserve what they got, although all the disclosures and all the red flags were there for anyone willing to see them. Greed overcame fear and common sense, and they got screwed. I really don't think too many people had "fun" when they broke open a seal and watched $300 disappear. We'll just have to see how many go back for seconds, based on a promise of even more value the next time around.
Unlike others, I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In this case, it really looks like my skepticism was well founded, although nothing short of confessions from all involved will ever be good enough for you. Fine, but you're still not putting your money where your mouth is, so your "consistent support" is very, very cheap to the point of being worthless for anyone on the sidelines looking for guidance.
Now people know exactly what it is. We'll see just how long enthusiasm lasts. My guess is that there will always be people willing to play. I'm honestly not judging, although you know exactly what I think. I'm still not sure why you are such an ardent supporter of something you don't think is worthy of your own hard earned money, but, whatever.
The frenzy will finally die down if we ever get to the point that people cannot profitably dump unopened boxes on eBay. That could be Series 2, Series 10, or whatever, but it's destined to come, since the boxes represent terrible value.
Posting a link to a card series that has no takers, with or without a discount, several days after release does not inspire confidence in the future of this. Not sure why you did that. In the meantime, I don't blame the good folks behind VB one bit for taking the wisdom of Mr. Mencken to heart and making what they can while they can. I do, however, blame you for encouraging people to buy something you wouldn't go near yourself, and for repeatedly castigating me for expressing an honest opinion.
Read all of my words, slowly. It is a discount from MSRP - just like automobiles. Yes, I know they are currently selling at a premium. Let's just ignore the previous century where MSRP was a "fake price". I was trying to find a simple metaphor for you since you were struggling to understand the concept. Maybe they are on sale for a day or two at full price, but go to their website and you'll see that almost everything has a discount.
FIND ONE TIME I SUGGESTED OR ENCOURAGED ANYONE TO BUY ONE. I DARE YOU, MR. MENCKEN.
Believe whatever you want, but stop making things up.
How does the world look when staring down your nose at it?
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
I'm not supporting hobby boxes. I'm not familiar with them. I'm familiar with coin collecting. Throwing 3 bullion coins in slabs and sealing them in plastic boxes at huge markups with the potential for a lottery win is not coin collecting.
I also have no idea what a "fake sales price" is. Are you suggesting they are engaging in consumer fraud by representing a discount from a price that was not a bona fide selling price without labeling them as such? If so, very classy. VB is smart to model itself after that industry.
Also, for the record, automobiles have been mostly selling at premiums to MSRP since shortly after the pandemic started, going on 3 years now, so there's that. You're clearly not an expert in everything.
I don't approve or disapprove. I'm just stating what it is. And anyone interesting in participating in unregulated games of chance is absolutely free to do so. I gamble, but not in unregulated games with terrible odds, which is exactly what VB is.
For the first round, not everyone was able to spot what I did ahead of time, and I'm pretty sure many more of them were disappointed than were ecstatic with their outcomes. I don't think they deserve what they got, although all the disclosures and all the red flags were there for anyone willing to see them. Greed overcame fear and common sense, and they got screwed. I really don't think too many people had "fun" when they broke open a seal and watched $300 disappear. We'll just have to see how many go back for seconds, based on a promise of even more value the next time around.
Unlike others, I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In this case, it really looks like my skepticism was well founded, although nothing short of confessions from all involved will ever be good enough for you. Fine, but you're still not putting your money where your mouth is, so your "consistent support" is very, very cheap to the point of being worthless for anyone on the sidelines looking for guidance.
Now people know exactly what it is. We'll see just how long enthusiasm lasts. My guess is that there will always be people willing to play. I'm honestly not judging, although you know exactly what I think. I'm still not sure why you are such an ardent supporter of something you don't think is worthy of your own hard earned money, but, whatever.
The frenzy will finally die down if we ever get to the point that people cannot profitably dump unopened boxes on eBay. That could be Series 2, Series 10, or whatever, but it's destined to come, since the boxes represent terrible value.
Posting a link to a card series that has no takers, with or without a discount, several days after release does not inspire confidence in the future of this. Not sure why you did that. In the meantime, I don't blame the good folks behind VB one bit for taking the wisdom of Mr. Mencken to heart and making what they can while they can. I do, however, blame you for encouraging people to buy something you wouldn't go near yourself, and for repeatedly castigating me for expressing an honest opinion.
Read all of my words, slowly. It is a discount from MSRP - just like automobiles. Maybe they are on sale for a day or two at full price, but go to their website and you'll see that almost everything has a discount.
I did read your words. Very slowly. If everything sells at a discount, and nothing sells at MSRP, then the discount is an illusion, and it's a form of consumer fraud absent a disclosure. Bad or non-existent disclosures seem to be a theme here.
And, like I said, cars haven't been selling at discounts for 3 years now, so their MSRPs are not "fake," like the VB PWCC opened supposedly was.
Just look at a sample disclosure from Macys. "Savings Based On Offering Prices, Not Actual Sales"
Do your card guys have anything like this on their website?
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
If you do that, you won't get any more updates on how to correctly collect coins.
People ALWAYS knew exactly what it was BECAUSE HOBBY BOXES HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS. They didn't need you, Mr. Mencken, to tell them.
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want. And, you know what, I don't look down my nose at them when they do something different than I would.
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
If you do that, you won't get any more updates on how to correctly collect coins.
Just sayin'.
There are other people who will gladly tell me that I'm doing it wrong. That's the nice thing about "old man hobbies", never a shortage. And if I'm not being humbled enough around here, I'll pop into a stamp forum. Those folks REALLY know how to tell you that you are doing everything wrong.
@jmlanzaf said:
People ALWAYS knew exactly what it was BECAUSE HOBBY BOXES HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS. They didn't need you, Mr. Mencken, to tell them.
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want. And, you know what, I don't look down my nose at them when they do something different than I would.
Except these aren't sports card hobby boxes, even those they are supposedly modeled after them. I'm not sure who needed who to tell them what. But, from the posted reactions from most people not named Shaun, they didn't seem too satisfied with what they received, and it seems like they didn't really know exactly what it was ahead of time.
"People always knew" isn't a defense to anything if even one person didn't know. And the people making claims are always in that group. That's why laws require adequate disclosures, not reliance on common knowledge.
@jmlanzaf said:
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want.
And some people think if you like to let people do what they want, that means you want them to do it. Silly, I know, but the inability to logically follow an argument is not exactly rare these days.
@jmlanzaf said:
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want.
And some people think if you like to let people do what they want, that means you want them to do it. Silly, I know, but the inability to logically follow an argument is not exactly rare these days.
Actually, no.
I too believe people should be allowed to do whatever they want. That doesn't mean I go on various forums pimping for products I wouldn't buy myself. While I have been pretty vocal criticizing the product, I do not believe I have ever actually told anyone not to buy it, although it should be clear that I think it's a bad idea. For the record, I also never said VB should not be allowed to sell it.
You and your buddy, OTOH, seem to want it both ways by saying that your support does not mean that you think people should buy. It is actually quite logical to draw an inference that someone supporting a product does, in fact, want people to buy it. Your line of reasoning is the illogical one, and isn't working too well for the celebrities reaching settlements with the government over their paid support for people scratching their gambling itch by getting involved with various failed crypto companies.
@jmlanzaf said:
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want.
And some people think if you like to let people do what they want, that means you want them to do it. Silly, I know, but the inability to logically follow an argument is not exactly rare these days.
Mencken expected such problems with the great unwashed masses. If only the eugenics movement hadn't imploded, we might have built a better population by now... all of them having fun the right way.
@jmlanzaf said:
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want.
And some people think if you like to let people do what they want, that means you want them to do it. Silly, I know, but the inability to logically follow an argument is not exactly rare these days.
Mencken expected such problems with the great unwashed masses.
I would be embarrassed to publicly display the fact I couldn't recognize that there's a difference between "People should be free to buy X if they want to" and "People should buy X". But then, that's just me.
@jmlanzaf said:
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want.
And some people think if you like to let people do what they want, that means you want them to do it. Silly, I know, but the inability to logically follow an argument is not exactly rare these days.
Mencken expected such problems with the great unwashed masses.
I would be embarrassed to publicly display the fact I couldn't recognize that there's a difference between "People should be free to buy X if they want to" and "People should buy X". But then, that's just me.
Yes, it is. Please forgive me for not concerning myself over what you would find embarrassing. After all, you're not embarrassed by the fact that no one who actually bought a box is joining you in your public support. I'm good.
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
Took you long enough. 😂🤣
If we ignore him the thread will be much more enjoyable for everyone.😎
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
Took you long enough. 😂🤣
If we ignore him the thread will be much more enjoyable and he will eventually go away when there is no one who responds to him.😎
Or, now hear me out, you can just stop making these threads in the first place. The only cheerleaders for this seem to be the three of you, and you have collectively purchased none to date, and have no apparent plans to buy any in the immediate future. So your compulsive need to start threads on the topic is more than a little puzzling.
@jmlanzaf said:
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
Took you long enough. 😂🤣
If we ignore him the thread will be much more enjoyable for everyone.😎
Lol. I don't know. He seems to be the only one enjoying these threads.
I don't know why I read this posting, maybe just to see how the drama unfolds before the axe coming down...
Anyway, IMHO, this is a fool's gambit buying VB boxes (acronym almost sounds like an STD, which may be appropriate).
Anyway, maybe it is just having too many statistics courses back in the day and then dallying about the slot machines in Vegas while waiting for a show to open but gambling of this sort certainly is not for me and count on losing the stake. Over 300 dollars gone per shot? Please!
For the collectors out there, 300 dollars can still buy some interesting coins.....
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
That is not what I mean by "right ". Unless they do ancients, I probably won't buy one either. But I'm not going to give anyone else a hard time if they do. I don't care if anyone buys one or not. But I don't like it when people tell other people what they should or shouldn't collect. [E.g. see every CAC thread ever...]
@7Jaguars said:
I don't know why I read this posting, maybe just to see how the drama unfolds before the axe coming down...
Anyway, IMHO, this is a fool's gambit buying VB boxes (acronym almost sounds like an STD, which may be appropriate).
Anyway, maybe it is just having too many statistics courses back in the day and then dallying about the slot machines in Vegas while waiting for a show to open but gambling of this sort certainly is not for me and count on losing the stake. Over 300 dollars gone per shot? Please!
For the collectors out there, 300 dollars can still buy some interesting coins.....
The "collectors" aren't the ones buying this box in my opinion.
They are marketing more to the sports card collectors trying to generate their interest in the thrill of finding a valuable coin vs. a valuable trading card.
I am going to venture over to the Trading Cards & Memorabilia forum and see if any members have heard of VaultBox and bought one.😉
That is not what I mean by "right ". Unless they do ancients, I probably won't buy one either. But I'm not going to give anyone else a hard time if they do. I don't care if anyone buys one or not. But I don't like it when people tell other people what they should or shouldn't collect. [E.g. see every CAC thread ever...]
No one is telling people what to do or not to do. That doesn’t mean the effects of blissful ignorance should be ignored.
@WQuarterFreddie said:
Well my thread was closed on the Trading Cards forum without comment from the Moderator or any members.🤣😂
I was hoping for feedback from the card collectors. Oh well....
As a card carrying member of the off topic police, it's a little surprising you aren't able to figure that one out without a moderator comment. Maybe $600 mystery boxes of bullion are not an appropriate Trading Cards topic?
That is not what I mean by "right ". Unless they do ancients, I probably won't buy one either. But I'm not going to give anyone else a hard time if they do. I don't care if anyone buys one or not. But I don't like it when people tell other people what they should or shouldn't collect. [E.g. see every CAC thread ever...]
No one is telling people what to do or not to do. That doesn’t mean the effects of blissful ignorance should be ignored.
You may not be, but someone had been. And worse, he's embraced Mencken elitism in the process. Do you really think people will openly talk about something when they are being openly called inferior for even liking it?
That is not what I mean by "right ". Unless they do ancients, I probably won't buy one either. But I'm not going to give anyone else a hard time if they do. I don't care if anyone buys one or not. But I don't like it when people tell other people what they should or shouldn't collect. [E.g. see every CAC thread ever...]
No one is telling people what to do or not to do. That doesn’t mean the effects of blissful ignorance should be ignored.
You may not be, but someone had been. And worse, he's embraced Mencken elitism in the process. Do you really think people will openly talk about something when they are being openly called inferior for even liking it?
Yes. Several people have openly posted about their purchase, and how they will not be making that mistake again. No shame. No judgment. Other than from you, because they are not expressing support for the product:
Except they all have a different "right" answer. Even on VB, we have one member who doesn't like them but wants to flip them. We have another member who doesn't like them but wants to collect the plastic.
More people aren't posting because more people didn't buy, not because they are horrified over the prospect of having their purchase criticized by an internet stranger.
Ironically, the three biggest supporters are not actual customers. The fact that more people aren't stridently supporting a purchase decision speaks volumes about the quality of the product. And still, no one is telling anyone what to do. Other than you, who can't stop hurling insults at people expressing negative views of the product in an effort to get them to stop posting.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
Exactly the same...
$20K car, $2K electric bike....
$20K Patek P, $2K Tag Heuer....
Here, I will save you a post:
"THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME".
Shameful enticement. Guaranty you NGC will put a stop to the crazy valuation differential. Want to bet gambler?
By the way I have no problem with gambling. Coin collecting doesn't need silly games for promotion.
If the volume and tone of the comments to that video are any indication, the bloom is definitely off the rose on this. Only 350 views for a guy with almost 7,000 subscribers, and only 14 comments, most of them negative. Not the same level of excitement as before people saw these in action.
Demand certainly won't be as strong the next time around. Of course, given how much demand exceeded the supply for Series 1, that doesn't mean they won't sell out, but it does call into question whether flips will be an easy double on eBay.
If a disproportionate amount of buyers are flippers rather than people who enjoy setting fire to several hundred dollars, that could make these a bust on the secondary market. Kind of like those $450 packs of football cards you linked to.
The lies just never end. I challenged anyone to find me advocating the purchase. Instead. Just more lies. The only thing I've ever supported is people's right to choose without judgment.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
Don't be an ass. I posted 2 other links and you can see dozens of boxes at Dave's if you want. Yes, it is a $4500 box with a 10% chance of winning, but it is still a $4500 lottery ticket. What, it doesn't count unless it's exactly a $595 box with 1 in 800 odds?
You may recall the old joke:
A man walks up to a bar and asks a young woman if she'd sleep with him for a million dollars.
She thinks about it and says, "I guess so."
He replies, "would you do it for $100?"
She indignantly replies, "Sir, what kind of woman do you take me for?"
He answers, "we've already established that, now we're just dickering over price. "
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
Exactly the same...
$20K car, $2K electric bike....
$20K Patek P, $2K Tag Heuer....
Here, I will save you a post:
"THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME".
Shameful enticement. Guaranty you NGC will put a stop to the crazy valuation differential. Want to bet gambler?
By the way I have no problem with gambling. Coin collecting doesn't need silly games for promotion.
Yes, exactly the same. Different price, same game. And, again, there are hobby boxes with "enticements" worth multiple thousands, possibly $20,000, they are all different. There was one a little while ago that had a 5 figure Babe Ruth card as one of the "enticements".
I don't think NGC will do anything. I think VB is planning on smoothing them out themselves. But they are free to do whatever they wish and I am free to play or not play.
And if coin collecting doesn't need "silly games" for promotion, how is joeykoins playing in YouTube coin sweepstakes constantly? Remember the old wall of grab bags that the local B&M's used to have? How about the intentional V75 flipper frenzy at the U.S. Mint? These games are as old as coin collecting. Remember B. Max Mehl's ad for 1913 Liberty nickels? He was the P.T. Barnum of coin collecting.
@jmlanzaf said:
Yes, exactly the same. Different price, same game.
You can lead a horse to water...
Idk. Apparently there's an "enticement" line somewhere between 2k and 20k. Meanwhile, Panini Prizm boxes actually cost $20k but those are "different" because they might be worth $15k.
Comments
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Vast difference between 20K and "couple thousand". Either way its gambling but not the same enticement. Do some research on gambling and enticement. Its a real thing and its illegal in some States without proper licensing.
Why the defense of straight gambling in the marketplace? How does that help the collectability of modern coins?
I have an issue with the TV marketers as well. It potentially invites govt. regulation, its not necessary. The WSJ ad is a prime example of proper marketing of the new NGCX scale. Lets leave it at that. Let the scale infiltrate the marketplace on its own merits.
Can't we all just get along?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Nope! 😂🤣
Not until everyone starts collecting right.
In all fairness, that IS a 10 box case, apparently representing 10% of the total production, which was a mere 100 boxes. Must have been a big seller, given how it is already discounted, and how they are offering volume discounts for more than one case. 🤣 Actually is great evidence of what happens once the cow is milked dry
The equivalent would be an offer to sell a case of 80 VBs, which they certainly wouldn't do for anything close to $4400. So it's really not a relevant comparison, nor a good example of how sports cards also sell for equivalent prices. They only made 100 of them, and apparently can't sell them for anything approaching $500 each.
"Male" their own choices?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Not everyone agrees.
Tried to fix it. It disappeared.
Some people are organically unable to agree. The same people who can't stop criticizing VB are now DEFENDING the hobby boxes. Oddly, it seems like they could (should?) criticize both. It's not like the existence of the hobby boxes validates VB.
Quick poll:
1. Are they defending/separating hobby boxes because they need VB to be the WORST invention ever?
2. Are the defending/separating hobby boxes just because I mentioned them?
Not even then. Even if you found one, the next argument would be that the contents of the box aren't identical or something equally as silly.
No. It doesn't count unless it's a single box. Anyone can combine multiples of anything to get to a higher number. It's not a single box. It's a big box of 10 individual boxes.
And, it's apparently not an instant hit, as evidenced by the fact that it is being discounted 6 days after its release date, with additional discounts available for multiple case quantities. They only made 10 cases, and are advertising "less than 10 remaining."
I'm not sure why you would want to make reference to this crap in support of VBs. To show that 10 boxes of some cards are being offered for sale, with no takers, at 8 times the price of a VB? That's supposed to show that VBs are a bargain? 🤣
The fact that VBs sold out in 30 minutes, and then were sold on eBay for significant premiums, shows they could have sold them for more, but it does not mean they represent good value for whoever is ultimately opening them. Whether or not they can repeat it remains to be seen. Your Dave & Adam link only shows that people do eventually get a clue.
RIDICULOUS.
It's a fake sale price. Almost all of their boxes are discounted from MSRP, just like automobiles.
Go ahead, keep arguing with yourself. These are EXACTLY THE SAME as VB. By their own admission, this is where VB got the idea.
It doesn't count because it has 10 items in it. Seriously? Then VB doesn't count either because it has 3 items in it.
This "crap" was not listed in support or condemnation of anything. Fathom did not seem to know these existed and, like you, he keeps wanting to pretend they are something different. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. It is where VB got the idea. [It needed repeating.]
At least be consistent. You are somehow supporting hobby boxes while condemning (VB) hobby boxes. At least I am consistently supporting both of them.
Prediction: You'll need to repeat it again. Not that it'll make a difference.
I'm not supporting hobby boxes. I'm not familiar with them. I'm familiar with coin collecting. Throwing 3 bullion coins in slabs and sealing them in plastic boxes at huge markups with the potential for a lottery win is not coin collecting.
I also have no idea what a "fake sales price" is. Are you suggesting they are engaging in consumer fraud by representing a discount from a price that was not a bona fide selling price without labeling them as such? If so, very classy. VB is smart to model itself after that industry.
Also, for the record, automobiles have been mostly selling at premiums to MSRP since shortly after the pandemic started, going on 3 years now, so there's that. You're clearly not an expert in everything.
I don't approve or disapprove. I'm just stating what it is. And anyone interesting in participating in unregulated games of chance is absolutely free to do so. I gamble, but not in unregulated games with terrible odds, which is exactly what VB is.
For the first round, not everyone was able to spot what I did ahead of time, and I'm pretty sure many more of them were disappointed than were ecstatic with their outcomes. I don't think they deserve what they got, although all the disclosures and all the red flags were there for anyone willing to see them. Greed overcame fear and common sense, and they got screwed. I really don't think too many people had "fun" when they broke open a seal and watched $300 disappear. We'll just have to see how many go back for seconds, based on a promise of even more value the next time around.
Unlike others, I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. In this case, it really looks like my skepticism was well founded, although nothing short of confessions from all involved will ever be good enough for you. Fine, but you're still not putting your money where your mouth is, so your "consistent support" is very, very cheap to the point of being worthless for anyone on the sidelines looking for guidance.
Now people know exactly what it is. We'll see just how long enthusiasm lasts. My guess is that there will always be people willing to play. I'm honestly not judging, although you know exactly what I think. I'm still not sure why you are such an ardent supporter of something you don't think is worthy of your own hard earned money, but, whatever.
The frenzy will finally die down if we ever get to the point that people cannot profitably dump unopened boxes on eBay. That could be Series 2, Series 10, or whatever, but it's destined to come, since the boxes represent terrible value.
Posting a link to a card series that has no takers, with or without a discount, several days after release does not inspire confidence in the future of this. Not sure why you did that. In the meantime, I don't blame the good folks behind VB one bit for taking the wisdom of Mr. Mencken to heart and making what they can while they can. I do, however, blame you for encouraging people to buy something you wouldn't go near yourself, and for repeatedly castigating me for expressing an honest opinion.
Read all of my words, slowly. It is a discount from MSRP - just like automobiles. Yes, I know they are currently selling at a premium. Let's just ignore the previous century where MSRP was a "fake price". I was trying to find a simple metaphor for you since you were struggling to understand the concept. Maybe they are on sale for a day or two at full price, but go to their website and you'll see that almost everything has a discount.
FIND ONE TIME I SUGGESTED OR ENCOURAGED ANYONE TO BUY ONE. I DARE YOU, MR. MENCKEN.
Believe whatever you want, but stop making things up.
How does the world look when staring down your nose at it?
I think I'm just going to use an "ignore" on him. I don't have anyone on ignore at the moment.
I did read your words. Very slowly. If everything sells at a discount, and nothing sells at MSRP, then the discount is an illusion, and it's a form of consumer fraud absent a disclosure. Bad or non-existent disclosures seem to be a theme here.
And, like I said, cars haven't been selling at discounts for 3 years now, so their MSRPs are not "fake," like the VB PWCC opened supposedly was.
Just look at a sample disclosure from Macys. "Savings Based On Offering Prices, Not Actual Sales"
Do your card guys have anything like this on their website?
If you do that, you won't get any more updates on how to correctly collect coins.
Just sayin'.
People ALWAYS knew exactly what it was BECAUSE HOBBY BOXES HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS. They didn't need you, Mr. Mencken, to tell them.
Some people like to gamble. I like to let people do what they want. And, you know what, I don't look down my nose at them when they do something different than I would.
There are other people who will gladly tell me that I'm doing it wrong. That's the nice thing about "old man hobbies", never a shortage. And if I'm not being humbled enough around here, I'll pop into a stamp forum. Those folks REALLY know how to tell you that you are doing everything wrong.
Except these aren't sports card hobby boxes, even those they are supposedly modeled after them. I'm not sure who needed who to tell them what. But, from the posted reactions from most people not named Shaun, they didn't seem too satisfied with what they received, and it seems like they didn't really know exactly what it was ahead of time.
"People always knew" isn't a defense to anything if even one person didn't know. And the people making claims are always in that group. That's why laws require adequate disclosures, not reliance on common knowledge.
And some people think if you like to let people do what they want, that means you want them to do it. Silly, I know, but the inability to logically follow an argument is not exactly rare these days.
Actually, no.
I too believe people should be allowed to do whatever they want. That doesn't mean I go on various forums pimping for products I wouldn't buy myself. While I have been pretty vocal criticizing the product, I do not believe I have ever actually told anyone not to buy it, although it should be clear that I think it's a bad idea. For the record, I also never said VB should not be allowed to sell it.
You and your buddy, OTOH, seem to want it both ways by saying that your support does not mean that you think people should buy. It is actually quite logical to draw an inference that someone supporting a product does, in fact, want people to buy it. Your line of reasoning is the illogical one, and isn't working too well for the celebrities reaching settlements with the government over their paid support for people scratching their gambling itch by getting involved with various failed crypto companies.
Mencken expected such problems with the great unwashed masses. If only the eugenics movement hadn't imploded, we might have built a better population by now... all of them having fun the right way.
I would be embarrassed to publicly display the fact I couldn't recognize that there's a difference between "People should be free to buy X if they want to" and "People should buy X". But then, that's just me.
Yes, it is. Please forgive me for not concerning myself over what you would find embarrassing. After all, you're not embarrassed by the fact that no one who actually bought a box is joining you in your public support. I'm good.
Took you long enough. 😂🤣
If we ignore him the thread will be much more enjoyable for everyone.😎
Or, now hear me out, you can just stop making these threads in the first place. The only cheerleaders for this seem to be the three of you, and you have collectively purchased none to date, and have no apparent plans to buy any in the immediate future. So your compulsive need to start threads on the topic is more than a little puzzling.
Lol. I don't know. He seems to be the only one enjoying these threads.
I’m never collecting Vaultbox. Sorry.
I don't know why I read this posting, maybe just to see how the drama unfolds before the axe coming down...
Anyway, IMHO, this is a fool's gambit buying VB boxes (acronym almost sounds like an STD, which may be appropriate).
Anyway, maybe it is just having too many statistics courses back in the day and then dallying about the slot machines in Vegas while waiting for a show to open but gambling of this sort certainly is not for me and count on losing the stake. Over 300 dollars gone per shot? Please!
For the collectors out there, 300 dollars can still buy some interesting coins.....
Well, just Love coins, period.
That is not what I mean by "right ". Unless they do ancients, I probably won't buy one either. But I'm not going to give anyone else a hard time if they do. I don't care if anyone buys one or not. But I don't like it when people tell other people what they should or shouldn't collect. [E.g. see every CAC thread ever...]
The "collectors" aren't the ones buying this box in my opinion.
They are marketing more to the sports card collectors trying to generate their interest in the thrill of finding a valuable coin vs. a valuable trading card.
I am going to venture over to the Trading Cards & Memorabilia forum and see if any members have heard of VaultBox and bought one.😉
🥱
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.No one is telling people what to do or not to do. That doesn’t mean the effects of blissful ignorance should be ignored.
Well my thread was closed on the Trading Cards forum without comment from the Moderator or any members.🤣😂
I was hoping for feedback from the card collectors. Oh well....
Get some sleep Joey! 😴😴
As a card carrying member of the off topic police, it's a little surprising you aren't able to figure that one out without a moderator comment. Maybe $600 mystery boxes of bullion are not an appropriate Trading Cards topic?
The topic is awesome, it's the bickering that puts me to sleep.
😴
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I get it. It has taken me a while to figure out it's best to just put someone on ignore instead of the continued back and forth.😎
You may not be, but someone had been. And worse, he's embraced Mencken elitism in the process. Do you really think people will openly talk about something when they are being openly called inferior for even liking it?
Yes. Several people have openly posted about their purchase, and how they will not be making that mistake again. No shame. No judgment. Other than from you, because they are not expressing support for the product:
More people aren't posting because more people didn't buy, not because they are horrified over the prospect of having their purchase criticized by an internet stranger.
Ironically, the three biggest supporters are not actual customers. The fact that more people aren't stridently supporting a purchase decision speaks volumes about the quality of the product. And still, no one is telling anyone what to do. Other than you, who can't stop hurling insults at people expressing negative views of the product in an effort to get them to stop posting.
Exactly the same...
$20K car, $2K electric bike....
$20K Patek P, $2K Tag Heuer....
Here, I will save you a post:
"THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME".
Shameful enticement. Guaranty you NGC will put a stop to the crazy valuation differential. Want to bet gambler?
By the way I have no problem with gambling. Coin collecting doesn't need silly games for promotion.
If the volume and tone of the comments to that video are any indication, the bloom is definitely off the rose on this. Only 350 views for a guy with almost 7,000 subscribers, and only 14 comments, most of them negative. Not the same level of excitement as before people saw these in action.
Demand certainly won't be as strong the next time around. Of course, given how much demand exceeded the supply for Series 1, that doesn't mean they won't sell out, but it does call into question whether flips will be an easy double on eBay.
If a disproportionate amount of buyers are flippers rather than people who enjoy setting fire to several hundred dollars, that could make these a bust on the secondary market. Kind of like those $450 packs of football cards you linked to.
The lies just never end. I challenged anyone to find me advocating the purchase. Instead. Just more lies. The only thing I've ever supported is people's right to choose without judgment.
I've never judged anyone > @fathom said:
Yes, exactly the same. Different price, same game. And, again, there are hobby boxes with "enticements" worth multiple thousands, possibly $20,000, they are all different. There was one a little while ago that had a 5 figure Babe Ruth card as one of the "enticements".
I don't think NGC will do anything. I think VB is planning on smoothing them out themselves. But they are free to do whatever they wish and I am free to play or not play.
And if coin collecting doesn't need "silly games" for promotion, how is joeykoins playing in YouTube coin sweepstakes constantly? Remember the old wall of grab bags that the local B&M's used to have? How about the intentional V75 flipper frenzy at the U.S. Mint? These games are as old as coin collecting. Remember B. Max Mehl's ad for 1913 Liberty nickels? He was the P.T. Barnum of coin collecting.
https://goldcardauctions.com/basketball-card-boxes/
You can lead a horse to water...
Idk. Apparently there's an "enticement" line somewhere between 2k and 20k. Meanwhile, Panini Prizm boxes actually cost $20k but those are "different" because they might be worth $15k.
As long as that argument can be used to dismiss your numerous examples, it will.