@jmlanzaf said:
FWIW, the VaultBox is associated with Minshull Trading. I've done business with them and find them to be very professional and ethical.
You can be ethical and still be overpriced. Just saying.
I think lottery tickets are overpriced, but they seem to sell well.
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
@MasonG said:
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
The world would be different if it was night time all the time also
@jmlanzaf said:
As for collecting, the stamp folks were the worst. Every other issue of the APS Philatelist had a letter to the editor from some newbie collector who went to a stamp show and was treated rudely by dealers and fellow patrons. Frequently, the patrons were accused of telling them they were collecting wrong. Sucks the joy right out of a hobby.
That's what I don't get about this. It's not like they're hiding anything- if you want to get involved, go ahead. If not, don't.
@Chevyrose said:
Oh god another reason to never support ngc
Not being sold by NGC.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
I don't? I see PCGS exclusive labels and cores almost every time I see modern coins being hawked on TV. Every major grading service is in "cahoots" with mass marketers.
It's a huge revenue driver for all of them, and none of them is above it. This is just the latest iteration.
@Chevyrose said:
Oh god another reason to never support ngc
Not being sold by NGC.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
They are slabbing them. They aren't selling them or marketing them. Your "point" is invalid in the face of it.
The fact that PCGS isn't doing it says less than nothing. Minshull is one of the NGCX folks. The whole point of NGCX was to market to noncollectors. That's what they are doing.
Well, a little more than that. Vaultbox claims not to know the contents of any box because NGCX assembled them.
@jmlanzaf said:
FWIW, the VaultBox is associated with Minshull Trading. I've done business with them and find them to be very professional and ethical.
You can be ethical and still be overpriced. Just saying.
I think lottery tickets are overpriced, but they seem to sell well.
Just sayin'.
HAHA! Along those same lines, as I read this I was continually thinking about PowerBall. You could win millions of $$, or single digits, if you matched a couple of numbers!
HB
@MasonG said:
I think lottery tickets are overpriced, but they seem to sell well.
The lottery is a tax on people who slept through 7th grade math class.
The lottery is not a tax since it's an entirely voluntary purchase and gamble. Did you sleep through 8th grade civics class?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This really is no different than the loot box issue with video games that exploded several years ago... Some states and countries started regulating them exactly because of the gambling aspect... It literally got to the point of having underage kids learning to gamble, many times with their parents money.
In this case it could be argued that generally speaking only consenting adults would be able to partake, so that will take some of the legal gray area out of the equation. There are quite a few adult equivalent loot boxes out there... There's ones for practically every hobby, gender, and what have you. Now there's one for coins.
They say a fool and his money is soon parted 😬 as others have pointed out this is nothing more than marketing. And, it will probably work to some degree. Once the news gets out that so and so got a $20k coin from one of these boxes, watch the effects. Sales will be insane, at least for a while.
If I want to spend $600 on coins I'd rather know what I'm getting. If I want to gamble with $600 I'll just wait until I'm in Tahoe in a couple of months assuming I'm not too tired from skiing. That being said, I appreciate the innovative idea and hope that it can bring in new collectors that will stay with the hobby.
As others have said, this is gambling plain and simple. It's not my thing, but I live in Oklahoma and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a casino, so it's obvious a lot of people enjoy it. If it's your bag, good luck and have fun.
What I don't understand is the vitriol towards certain members or TPG's over what is essentially an insignificant gimmick. This is an interesting, but unimportant topic. Life is too short to go around unhappy.
@UpGrayedd said:
As others have said, this is gambling plain and simple. It's not my thing, but I live in Oklahoma and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a casino, so it's obvious a lot of people enjoy it. If it's your bag, good luck and have fun.
What I love about Oklahoma is the cannabis dispensary on I-35 off Exit 1 Southbound. If you get ON the highway the only way OFF is in Texas where the devil's lettuce is not legal... so like the cops just setup on the border where they can see you get on the highway to have reasonable suspicion to pull you over? One heck of a business model.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@UpGrayedd said:
As others have said, this is gambling plain and simple. It's not my thing, but I live in Oklahoma and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a casino, so it's obvious a lot of people enjoy it. If it's your bag, good luck and have fun.
What I love about Oklahoma is the cannabis dispensary on I-35 off Exit 1 Southbound. If you get ON the highway the only way OFF is in Texas where the devil's lettuce is not legal... so like the cops just setup on the border where they can see you get on the highway to have reasonable suspicion to pull you over? One heck of a business model.
Don't get me started on the dispensaries, we have more of those than casinos. I'm in agriculture and all the MMJ grows have driven land prices through the roof, pricing out us conventional guys just trying to raise food and fiber for the country.
If I'm not mistaken?
In a round about way, they're telling you that the three coins they give you. Will be valued pretty high in total. Esp the whole grading aspect in this NEW venue.
Meaning, their cost of the holdered slabs and results of the high grades they give you, 9.9 and/or 10. This alone is the cost of the high premiums they charge $600. So, the three coins should have a value or close to it, that would be the reason for the $600 fee? An average of approximately, $200 apiece!
Now, if you should happened to receive a far better grade and/ or particular coin that would reach the high pinnacle of value. It then would only be a BONUS.
This way, this wouldn't appear to look as if it is any gamble.
Your mostly paying for their expensive product.
Ala, "The green bean" or the high prices of certain coins we send out in the many different categories of certifications.
My 2 Cents.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@Chevyrose said:
Oh god another reason to never support ngc
Not being sold by NGC.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
They are slabbing them. They aren't selling them or marketing them. Your "point" is invalid in the face of it.
The fact that PCGS isn't doing it says less than nothing. Minshull is one of the NGCX folks. The whole point of NGCX was to market to noncollectors. That's what they are doing.
@MasonG said:
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
The world would be different if it was night time all the time also
@Chevyrose said:
Oh god another reason to never support ngc
Not being sold by NGC.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
They are slabbing them. They aren't selling them or marketing them. Your "point" is invalid in the face of it.
The fact that PCGS isn't doing it says less than nothing. Minshull is one of the NGCX folks. The whole point of NGCX was to market to noncollectors. That's what they are doing.
@MasonG said:
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
The world would be different if it was night time all the time also
Wow, not only tone deaf but your reading comprehension is FR-02 at best. Pitiful.
What’s pitiful is the artificial toning on all the coins you admire
Try comprehending that none of those colors happened on their own
Nothing like having a boner for toners
What's pitiful is that you started off on a coin topic when you first "rejoined" and turned into a rank troll. Probably a lowly alt just look for bites before slinking off back into your hole. Whatever.
@joeykoins said:
If I'm not mistaken?
In a round about way, they're telling you that the three coins they give you. Will be valued pretty high in total. Esp the whole grading aspect in this NEW venue.
Meaning, their cost of the holdered slabs and results of the high grades they give you, 9.9 and/or 10. This alone is the cost of the high premiums they charge $600. So, the three coins should have a value or close to it, that would be the reason for the $600 fee? An average of approximately, $200 apiece!
Now, if you should happened to receive a far better grade and/ or particular coin that would reach the high pinnacle of value. It then would only be a BONUS.
It sounds good when you put it like that Joey, but you’re being very generous with the expectations here. You could get a 3 coins with a “value” (NGC price guide) close to what you paid, but you also could get a box with $255 total “value”. Imagine a non collector that for the first time decides to buy one of these. He/she spends $600 and receives a few different silver eagles with a price guide of $255. They go to hit the “instant offer” and get an offer of 80% ($200). If that was your first coin purchase and you got $200 worth of coins for $600, I can’t imagine that would entice someone to continue with the hobby, it sounds like it might have the opposite effect. I don’t know what the odds are to receive this box as opposed to one with a value close to purchase price, but I’m sure there are some hefty margins built in to this program.
@Chevyrose said:
Oh god another reason to never support ngc
Not being sold by NGC.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
They are slabbing them. They aren't selling them or marketing them. Your "point" is invalid in the face of it.
The fact that PCGS isn't doing it says less than nothing. Minshull is one of the NGCX folks. The whole point of NGCX was to market to noncollectors. That's what they are doing.
@MasonG said:
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
The world would be different if it was night time all the time also
@Chevyrose said:
Oh god another reason to never support ngc
Not being sold by NGC.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
They are slabbing them. They aren't selling them or marketing them. Your "point" is invalid in the face of it.
The fact that PCGS isn't doing it says less than nothing. Minshull is one of the NGCX folks. The whole point of NGCX was to market to noncollectors. That's what they are doing.
@MasonG said:
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
The world would be different if it was night time all the time also
Wow, not only tone deaf but your reading comprehension is FR-02 at best. Pitiful.
What’s pitiful is the artificial toning on all the coins you admire
Try comprehending that none of those colors happened on their own
Nothing like having a boner for toners
What's pitiful is that you started off on a coin topic when you first "rejoined" and turned into a rank troll. Probably a lowly alt just look for bites before slinking off back into your hole. Whatever.
You’re just mad a “troll” has a more valuable collection than you
It is similar to me selling 50 rolls of wheat cents for $50/roll, with one roll containing an '09 S VDB. Somebody gets a big win, everybody else takes a loss. Yes, very much a lottery, but the loser doesn't lose it all. More than likely legit, because they make money, and there will be winners.
"Sure seems like a suckers bet. Still, It's not a lot of money for some folks, I could see the gamble being fun. Years down the road, I could see un-opened boxes becoming scarce and a part of numismatic history that people will look back on with interest... something like the early photo cert slabs or GSA sale memorabillia."
May be a sucker bet... or not. But for me... it would depend on your faith that all that is stated... is truthful and can b e trusted.
Is the list of copins really accurate for what is in the boxes? Is that $23,000 coin really there?
How will anyone know.... if any of those higher value coins have really been found? Just sayin...
But... I predict there will be money made on these. I expect they will sell out fast (not sure if sales have started or will start). Then watch them be posted on ebay.... advertising chance of getting that $23,000 coin.... unopened box of course. $950 for the unopened box!
So I think it is an interesting concept... whether it is legal or not, I do not know. But let's consider a little different scenario....
Let's say PCGS made a deal with the US Mint. Similar to what we are talking about. A limited number... and even higher potential stakes!!! Any doubt on how fast the items will sell out?? and what they will go for on ebay??
@Treeman said:
It is similar to me selling 50 rolls of wheat cents for $50/roll, with one roll containing an '09 S VDB. Somebody gets a big win, everybody else takes a loss. Yes, very much a lottery, but the loser doesn't lose it all. More than likely legit, because they make money, and there will be winners.
And many times... maybe no one ever really gets the 1909-S vdb. How would you ever know? Is there a list of winners that can be accessed?
The first batch could also be run as loss leaders for cheap advertising and to build a customer base. I’ll grab a box on the 25th just to show what comes out. Still don’t expect much long term.
It's just another form of gambling, with the odds favoring the house. And those "odds" are manipulated, because they know what they're putting in the box.
@johnny010 said:
The first batch could also be run as loss leaders for cheap advertising and to build a customer base. I’ll grab a box on the 25th just to show what comes out. Still don’t expect much long term.
I was thinking of doing the same, I’ll probably join you in buying one just to post a review of it.
Not for me.
If I’m going to spend $600 on coins, I want to know what I’m getting straight up.
If I want an element of surprise, then I can get some kicks roll searching with a lot less downside risk.
On top of that, I’m not into modern- bullion type materials.
And, I don’t trust the good folks packing these boxes to be generous nearly as much as some of my friends here. I’m out.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
If it was just 1 coin for about $100 then it would be good as Christmas presents from non collectors to give to friends and family who are coin collectors. Better than buying colorized SAEs that non collectors tend to buy to give as presents
Comments
5
I think lottery tickets are overpriced, but they seem to sell well.
Just sayin'.
Clearly associated with NGC. Giant logo on the side of “vaultbox”. They are clearly in cahoots with each other
Stop trying to invalidate my point
You don’t see pcgs doing this
“NGC is heavily involved in this”
Don’t you watch blue ridge silver hound
Jeez newbie
Collectors still need to learn to buy the coin not the box, period!
Not surprised at some of the replies here, as this is a PCGS message board. No doubt, many of the responses would be different if PCGS was involved in this offering.
The world would be different if it was night time all the time also
6
7
The lottery is a tax on people who slept through 7th grade math class.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
8
9
Every single thread you are in j
Like drinking sleepy time tea
Sure there is. Any way I disapprove of is wrong.
BTW, I see you have a new stalker.
.
Coin Photographer.
10
He seems to like PCGS.
That's what I don't get about this. It's not like they're hiding anything- if you want to get involved, go ahead. If not, don't.
Not my deal, but I still find it interesting.
I don't? I see PCGS exclusive labels and cores almost every time I see modern coins being hawked on TV. Every major grading service is in "cahoots" with mass marketers.
It's a huge revenue driver for all of them, and none of them is above it. This is just the latest iteration.
Wow, not only tone deaf but your reading comprehension is FR-02 at best. Pitiful.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
So, how fast do you think these will sell out once they go on sale?
Collector, occasional seller
.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Well, a little more than that. Vaultbox claims not to know the contents of any box because NGCX assembled them.
11
HAHA! Along those same lines, as I read this I was continually thinking about PowerBall. You could win millions of $$, or single digits, if you matched a couple of numbers!
HB
The lottery is not a tax since it's an entirely voluntary purchase and gamble. Did you sleep through 8th grade civics class?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This really is no different than the loot box issue with video games that exploded several years ago... Some states and countries started regulating them exactly because of the gambling aspect... It literally got to the point of having underage kids learning to gamble, many times with their parents money.
In this case it could be argued that generally speaking only consenting adults would be able to partake, so that will take some of the legal gray area out of the equation. There are quite a few adult equivalent loot boxes out there... There's ones for practically every hobby, gender, and what have you. Now there's one for coins.
They say a fool and his money is soon parted 😬 as others have pointed out this is nothing more than marketing. And, it will probably work to some degree. Once the news gets out that so and so got a $20k coin from one of these boxes, watch the effects. Sales will be insane, at least for a while.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
If I want to spend $600 on coins I'd rather know what I'm getting. If I want to gamble with $600 I'll just wait until I'm in Tahoe in a couple of months assuming I'm not too tired from skiing. That being said, I appreciate the innovative idea and hope that it can bring in new collectors that will stay with the hobby.
As others have said, this is gambling plain and simple. It's not my thing, but I live in Oklahoma and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a casino, so it's obvious a lot of people enjoy it. If it's your bag, good luck and have fun.
What I don't understand is the vitriol towards certain members or TPG's over what is essentially an insignificant gimmick. This is an interesting, but unimportant topic. Life is too short to go around unhappy.
Philippians 4:4-7
What I love about Oklahoma is the cannabis dispensary on I-35 off Exit 1 Southbound. If you get ON the highway the only way OFF is in Texas where the devil's lettuce is not legal... so like the cops just setup on the border where they can see you get on the highway to have reasonable suspicion to pull you over? One heck of a business model.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Don't get me started on the dispensaries, we have more of those than casinos. I'm in agriculture and all the MMJ grows have driven land prices through the roof, pricing out us conventional guys just trying to raise food and fiber for the country.
Philippians 4:4-7
If I'm not mistaken?
In a round about way, they're telling you that the three coins they give you. Will be valued pretty high in total. Esp the whole grading aspect in this NEW venue.
Meaning, their cost of the holdered slabs and results of the high grades they give you, 9.9 and/or 10. This alone is the cost of the high premiums they charge $600. So, the three coins should have a value or close to it, that would be the reason for the $600 fee? An average of approximately, $200 apiece!
Now, if you should happened to receive a far better grade and/ or particular coin that would reach the high pinnacle of value. It then would only be a BONUS.
This way, this wouldn't appear to look as if it is any gamble.
Your mostly paying for their expensive product.
Ala, "The green bean" or the high prices of certain coins we send out in the many different categories of certifications.
My 2 Cents.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.What's pitiful is that you started off on a coin topic when you first "rejoined" and turned into a rank troll. Probably a lowly alt just look for bites before slinking off back into your hole. Whatever.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
It sounds good when you put it like that Joey, but you’re being very generous with the expectations here. You could get a 3 coins with a “value” (NGC price guide) close to what you paid, but you also could get a box with $255 total “value”. Imagine a non collector that for the first time decides to buy one of these. He/she spends $600 and receives a few different silver eagles with a price guide of $255. They go to hit the “instant offer” and get an offer of 80% ($200). If that was your first coin purchase and you got $200 worth of coins for $600, I can’t imagine that would entice someone to continue with the hobby, it sounds like it might have the opposite effect. I don’t know what the odds are to receive this box as opposed to one with a value close to purchase price, but I’m sure there are some hefty margins built in to this program.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
You’re just mad a “troll” has a more valuable collection than you
Borderline scam.
There is no free lunch………
It is similar to me selling 50 rolls of wheat cents for $50/roll, with one roll containing an '09 S VDB. Somebody gets a big win, everybody else takes a loss. Yes, very much a lottery, but the loser doesn't lose it all. More than likely legit, because they make money, and there will be winners.
"Sure seems like a suckers bet. Still, It's not a lot of money for some folks, I could see the gamble being fun. Years down the road, I could see un-opened boxes becoming scarce and a part of numismatic history that people will look back on with interest... something like the early photo cert slabs or GSA sale memorabillia."
May be a sucker bet... or not. But for me... it would depend on your faith that all that is stated... is truthful and can b e trusted.
Is the list of copins really accurate for what is in the boxes? Is that $23,000 coin really there?
How will anyone know.... if any of those higher value coins have really been found? Just sayin...
But... I predict there will be money made on these. I expect they will sell out fast (not sure if sales have started or will start). Then watch them be posted on ebay.... advertising chance of getting that $23,000 coin.... unopened box of course. $950 for the unopened box!
So I think it is an interesting concept... whether it is legal or not, I do not know. But let's consider a little different scenario....
Let's say PCGS made a deal with the US Mint. Similar to what we are talking about. A limited number... and even higher potential stakes!!! Any doubt on how fast the items will sell out?? and what they will go for on ebay??
And many times... maybe no one ever really gets the 1909-S vdb. How would you ever know? Is there a list of winners that can be accessed?
So Yes.... certainly a gamble... with risk. Are you feeling lucky?
The first batch could also be run as loss leaders for cheap advertising and to build a customer base. I’ll grab a box on the 25th just to show what comes out. Still don’t expect much long term.
It's just another form of gambling, with the odds favoring the house. And those "odds" are manipulated, because they know what they're putting in the box.
Lots of people are drawn to gambling. I am not.
I was thinking of doing the same, I’ll probably join you in buying one just to post a review of it.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Not for me.
If I’m going to spend $600 on coins, I want to know what I’m getting straight up.
If I want an element of surprise, then I can get some kicks roll searching with a lot less downside risk.
On top of that, I’m not into modern- bullion type materials.
And, I don’t trust the good folks packing these boxes to be generous nearly as much as some of my friends here. I’m out.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
@DeplorableDan
@johnny010
Would you guys be so kind to update this thread when/if you buy one? I think we'd all be appreciative to see the results.
Good luck
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
NGC and the Vaultbox know what they are getting into, their eyes are wide open. But it's not just marketing and retailing it is more than that.
Some States monitor enticement. Most do not.
If this first round / batch flies rapidly... certainly will see more. and others getting into the game.
If it was just 1 coin for about $100 then it would be good as Christmas presents from non collectors to give to friends and family who are coin collectors. Better than buying colorized SAEs that non collectors tend to buy to give as presents
Mr_Spud