Half Cent Attribution - My Offer to Help

NeophyteNumismatist

I have been thinking about how I can give back to the forum, and get experience in return. I attribute half cents almost everyday on eBay for fun. It's good practice and allows me to better understand the series. Half certs tend to be generically attributed when graded (i.e. spiked chin), and oftentimes not at all.

So...If you have a random half cent and always wondered about it, post it (graded or raw)... and I will do my best to attribute it for you by Cohen Variety. Obviously, the more worn the coin, the more difficult the task, but I will do my best to diagnose and explain the markers.

Also - There are much greater numismatic minds on the board....so, if you know the variety, feel free to call it out. This is not "me against the world", this is for some fun, to help fellow members, and try to engage in numismatic conversations.

May be great, may flop... time will tell. But, I think this is something I can do for the boards.

LanceNewmanOCC

been there done that. half cents are not my strongest area for attribution or authentication. thankfully the 2 overlap, so i may post something and it may be real or not but thankfully the same process pretty much covers both areas.

you may like some posts buy a person that was dead-set on finding some "discoveries" within the half cent series. if/when i come across one of their posts (i don't recall their user id) i'll tag you.

winesteven

Thanks so VERY much. I own only three Half Cents in my Type Sets:

1. I believe this is actually Crosslet 4 Stemless, not Plain 4 Stemless, so should be PCGS #1072, not #1063. Please confirm. Thanks.
   

2. MS64+RD w/CAC:

3. I’ve been told by the seller that this is Cohen 1, B-1, R.1. Is that correct? MS64+RD w/CAC:
   

Thanks again so very much.

Steve

burfle23

Had to post one from my collection ...

lermish

@burfle23 said:
Had to post one from my collection ...

Ok me too:) this is my one and only for the typeset, owned for less than a week.

ricko

@NeophyteNumismatist.... Nice offer and interesting concept. Hope to see more of this type of collaboration. Cheers, RickO

jesbroken

Once you have finished with these, I will give you one of each of the Draped Bust Half Cents to do. Thank you.
Jim

NeophyteNumismatist

@winesteven

1804 - C-12 (R.2): There are 13 varieties for this date. The C-12 is identified through a few attribution keys. The crosslet "4" in the date is punched high, close to the zero, and is standing upright. The reverse is stemless and the fraction is evenly spaced with a long faction bar. There is also a faint die scratch at the bottom of the E in United.

1835 - C-1 (R.1): There are 2 varieties for this date. The C-1 can be differentiated from the C-2 by the wider spacing between the S and the T in "States" in the reverse.

1855 - C-1 (R.1): There is only one variety for the Braided Hair series, making all dates C-1. Interestingly, the 1855 has more full red examples than any other date in the entire Half Cent series.

@burfle23

1807 - C-1 (R.1): There is only one variety for the 1807 date. An interesting fact is that the 7 of the date is larger than the other numbers. This is due to the punch that was used, as it is actually the 1807 (right facing) Gold $5 Capped Bust Half Eagle.

@lermish

1804 - C-13 (3.1): While there are 13 varieties for the date, there are only two (the C-11 and C-13) that have a plain 4. The C-13 is stemless, and the C-11 has stems. There should be a small die crack coming from the E in States and connecting to the bottom of the berry in the wreath. However, I cannot see this die crack in your pictures, as I cannot enlarge them.

Picker1954

You got him burfle

LanceNewmanOCC

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

do the half cents have NCs like the large cents?

burfle23

@burfle23

1807 - C-1 (R.1): There is only one variety for the 1807 date. An interesting fact is that the 7 of the date is larger than the other numbers. This is due to the punch that was used, as it is actually the 1807 (right facing) Gold $5 Capped Bust Half Eagle.

Sorry, must dig deeper on mine!

Counterfeit 1807 based on a genuine 1804 C-6 half cent.

burfle23

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

do the half cents have NCs like the large cents?

No.

NeophyteNumismatist

@burfle23 Nice one! You sure did get me on that one. Now that I look closer at the reverse, I see the die crack that would identify it as a C-6. Electrotype?

I saw the 1807 and knew there was only one variety. I didn't look close... shame on me.

Question - what does NC mean?

burfle23

Actually struck; made dies without a date from the C-6 and then added dates for the "series"!

NC means "non-collectible"; very rare varieties of early large cents were given that title by Sheldon per
date.

NeophyteNumismatist

@burfle23 - Thanks so much for teaching me this and PMing me the other example. I really appreciate it.

burfle23

The 1806 @NeophyteNumismatist and I reviewed:

LanceNewmanOCC

@burfle23 said:
The 1806 @NeophyteNumismatist and I reviewed:

coyote ugly if i've ever seen it.

LanceNewmanOCC

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

here is the person i was referring to that you may enjoy looking through his threads.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1040321/1795-cohen-6a-half-cent-rarity-2-1300-estimated-to-exist

the stuff he posted didn't seem to get much fanfare but he is really doing something in the half cent category!

burfle23

Another from my collection!

This is a really cool post you started!

NeophyteNumismatist

@burfle23 -

1796 C-1 (R.6): There are three varieties for this date, and the C-1 is almost as tough as the C-3. The C-1 is the no pole variety. I was tipped-off on this one, but I will try to explain WHAT are the markers that makes this a COUNTERFEIT:

-There is no bisecting crack on the obverse (that is the most obvious). The crack would show, even in low grade.

-The 1 in the date looks thick, making me think it could be the "I" that replaced the 1 in the 1795 C-1

-The reverse also has some issues, as the 1796 wreath has the upper leaves pointing at each other, and these are point slightly upward. The leaf under the "O" in in OF comes almost all the way to the end of the O. So I think this reverse is also a 1795 C-1.

NeophyteNumismatist

Thanks for posting... this is harder than I expected. It is much harder to identify which year/variety was copied... even when I know it is fake

NeophyteNumismatist

@LanceNewmanOCC Thanks so much for the information. I really appreciate it!

burfle23

Original coin used to make this electrotype copy was a 1795 C1:

NeophyteNumismatist

Sweet! Glad I was able to get the modified/copied variety right that time. I am still recovering from the 1807 . Thanks for keeping the thread alive, and giving me cool things to research and learn. You're awesome!

burfle23

Thank you; posts like this are important in my mind as it stresses ATTRIBUTION! Absolutely my 1st step in counterfeit research- 99+% of the time if it can't be attributed there is a problem...

I have an extensive library of attribution guides/ books on early copper and my latest love Vermont coppers; use internet resources for other types and the help of my many friends in the Hobby!

LanceNewmanOCC

@burfle23 said:
Original coin used to make this electrotype copy was a 1795 C1:

is it this one?

burfle23

Really poor cast distorts much of the lettering on the obverse. Only 2 obverse dies, this one and the punctuated date (OBV 2).

burfle23

This one can be a little tricky!

LanceNewmanOCC

@burfle23 said:
Really poor cast distorts much of the lettering on the obverse. Only 2 obverse dies, this one and the punctuated date (OBV 2).

an obv from another year maybe? not a big deal but looks just off enough.

Catbert

Fun thread! One of my half cents has the attribution on the label, hopefully correct. Here are mine for your consideration:

NeophyteNumismatist

@burfle23

1811 - C-1 (R.3+): There are two varieties for the date, and this one is attempting to be the "wide date", but this coin is COUNTERFEIT.

Obverse observations:
-The separation in between the first 1 and the 8 is actually a little too wide.
-The 11 is actually too low.
-All of the 1s in the date are too thin.
-The stars look smaller than that of the 1809-1811 dates
***My guess on the obverse is that this modeled from an 1835-C-2

Reverse:
-The lettering in "United" and "America" are particularly thick
***My guess is that reverse is the 1809 C-6

(I know this is a fake.. that is clear. I am not nearly as confident in the model varieties for the obverse and reverse)

burfle23

Very cool @NeophyteNumismatist and I would not argue with you about the attribution!

I attributed the "family" as 1835/ 1826, the reverse being 1826 C-1: https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/struck-counterfeit-coins-another-all-in-the-family-half-cent-1835-1826/

NeophyteNumismatist

@Catbert

1805 - C-1 (R.1): There are four varieties for the 1805 date. The C-1 is known as the "medium 5", you you can see a small re-punching over the 5 in the date. The reverse has no stems on the wreath, the only stemless variety for the date.

1832 - C-3 (R.1): There are three variety for the 1832 date. The C-3 is known for re-punched letters in the legend, and die rust that is present between the "C" and "E" in the word Cent of the reverse. These is also die rust below the horizontal line below cent, and more die rust under the ribbon of the reverse,

1855 - C-1 (R.1): There is only one variety for the Braided Hair series, making all dates C-1. Interestingly, the 1855 has more full red examples than any other date in the entire Half Cent series.

NeophyteNumismatist

@burfle23 - I feel fortunate to even get that 1811 half correct! Thank you for your contributions - that one was a brain buster!

To everyone - Thank you for your contributions. There have been some very beautiful half cents posted on this thread. Keep it coming!!!!!

opportunity

What books do you all use to attribute Half Cents?

burfle23

Speaking for myself I use the half cent books from my friends William Eckberg and Ed Fuhrman; just received Ed's 3rd installment this past week.

burfle23

OK, just a little fun with this one...

NeophyteNumismatist

I have the Bill Eckberg and Ed Fuhrman books also. Ed just came out with a 4th book on Half Cent errors, and I really enjoy that one too. Those are my main books.

I have the Cohen, Breen and Manley books, too. But, I use those less so now. (Still great books)

If you wanted to buy only one book on Half Cents, I would recommend Bill Eckberg's book. There is lots of great analysis and information in that book.

LanceNewmanOCC

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

this may be better. just look down the list of thread titles. YABBA DABBA DOOOO!

https://forums.collectors.com/profile/discussions/coinloverjon

NeophyteNumismatist

Thanks @LanceNewmanOCC!

and.... I totally agree - @coinloverjon should be getting much more traction on those Half Cent threads. They are super cool!

NeophyteNumismatist

@burfle23

1804 - C-6 (R.2) - without the edge picture, I would have bet good money this is genuine! This is a disgustingly cool COUNTERFEIT! This coin represents a perfect terminal die state. It has the spiked chin, and the high 4 in the date. The small spike coming off the right ribbon of the reverse. Everything about it looks great.

But then, you have the edge. The edge on a Draped Half Cent would be rounded, and this is very flat. Because of the rims, I know this was not worn flat at the edges. She's a looker - but she is fake.

burfle23

You are on a roll!

Long time collector Gene Braig considered the terminal die state known as "13.0" his Holy Grail; when he couldn't find one, he had a few made!

NeophyteNumismatist

Thanks for your kind words. I learned my lesson on that 1807! I was lazy. You, my friend, have me working and I love it.

I really like that fake - by the way! Super cool one!

jesbroken

Here are some that I promised you. Help a feller out.
Jim

NeophyteNumismatist

@jesbroken I would be happy to try to help. Can you post closer pics of each obverse and reverse? I can't zoom in enough, and I have been burned already

jesbroken

Rather than overfilling your post, how about if I just message them to you?
Jim

NeophyteNumismatist

Either way works for me... if you post them, everyone interested can potentially benefit. But, I will have fun regardless! Hope you are having a great Friday night.

jesbroken

burfle23

Great images; would also like to see the smirking "1802 c"! Edge view would be cool as well...

DarkStar

@NeophyteNumismatist....Would you consider taking a look at mine?

jesbroken

@DarkStar
Your 1806 would be a C-4 due to the Large 6 and with Stems.
Your 1825(nice by the way) is a C-2 (2 items leaf at M matches and lower left berry has short stem)
JMO's
Jim