This 1794 was obtained at my local bricks and motar shop many years ago. Like the ‘96 it’s got some issues that make slabbing questionable. What you can’t see is the edge lettering is defective. Several letters are missing. It reads, “hund…r a dollar.”
I cannot imagine any genuine Liberty Cap Half Cent in identifiable condition being questionable for slabbing. I only have one as of yet, a 1795 No Pole Thin Plancet C6a. Looking forward to the day I can afford more.
Jiim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbbroken I wish I should see the date more clearly on the 1804. I would say this is a late die state of a C-9. The date looks a little too spread to be an early state C-10.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I thought you'd all get a kick out of this. I took pics of this at the last small local show here. The owner was about to send it off to PCGS at the time, and they reported back VG details. I've seen worse in straight grade holders in this grade, and may be working on acquiring it soon. Due to the thread topic, I suppose no introduction is needed, though we all know this coin is a HUGE deal.
@NeophyteNumismatist said: @jesbbroken I wish I should see the date more clearly on the 1804. I would say this is a late die state of a C-9. The date looks a little too spread to be an early state C-10.
I struggled with this because there was no die crack above IBER at all that I can see unless there is the very early start of said die crack. Not sure what the scratch/die crack rim thru L is. Here are a couple more pics. I feel it to be an EDS of C-9. I agree there is too much spread for a C-10. IMO
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@opportunity - Very cool 1804 C2 (R.6). I agree that I have seen some rougher examples with straight grades. I am thinking that this coin was struck on an uneven planchet due to the weakness on the lefthand side of the obverse and reverse.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
There’s gold in some of those low grade specimens. This is what makes the hunt so exciting.
I think the early die crack IS there. The early stage of the crack can be seen on this specimen sold at a Heritage auction which is almost identical to the posted one. You can see a fine line running running from the the top of the R to the top of the T and another running at 45 degrees from the top of the Y to the rim.
Heritage specimen:
Posted specimen:
Finally, because it’s been stated that every know specimen (I didn’t check this) has been reported to have the same reported weakness of strike on both sides from K8 to K10, this characteristic is not due to individual planchet irregularity, but very much more likely due to die misalignment where one of the dies was slightly canted away from the horizontal plane. It is quite likely this misalignment caused undue pressure on the dies, resulting in early cracking followed by die shattering of the obverse die. This is presumably why there are so few specimens of ‘04 C-2 known. The obverse die failed quickly.
It's for sure a C-2. I saw the coin in hand when it was raw, and PCGS gave it the C-2 attribution already when the current owner submitted it. I think it's probably DS 1.0, but I'd wanna see it again.
As for that comparison to the PCGS 30 CAC...yowzers, lol.
@jesbroken
Regarding the 1802 above. Looks like it was in the ground for a couple hundred years. I can’t find anything on it that doesn’t ‘fit’ a legitimate ‘02/0, C-2 overdate, but points of comparison are limited due to the amount of corrosion. Date looks good which is very oddball on this variety. I suspect it’s real and would be a decent filler. It will be interesting to see what it brings. 02 is a key date, so there should be a bit of interest from the hole fillers, especially since the date faces up very well on this particular coin.
@jesbroken I see it now at a "buy it now" price for $695. I agree that you should get one that you can live with. Thanks so much for your contributions to the thread, too. It makes it much more fun.
Thanks to the others, too. You really do make this thread fun!
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@jesbroken said, “ I just couldn’t get past it.” when referring to the corroded ‘02 half cent upthread.
What you can tolerate when dealing with old time copper rarities is an important factor in building a collection of these scarce coins, especially because prices can be quite significant for perfect specimens, even at low grades. It might be interesting to see some of the ugly ducklings in people’s collections.
Here’s one of mine, a ‘93 C-2. It’s a dog, but it fills a slot. When looking with my eye, I don’t all the pink that shows up in these photo’s, but it is pretty corroded indeed. What else is out there?
Thanks, @DoctorPaper. Like your name, btw. I truly understand about coin affordability. I started years ago buying coins barely readable, due to expense(talking about early cents for the most part) and one day I discovered via the forum that so many member collectors couldn't tolerate the thought of owning detail coins. I started checking on auction sites and found many gorgeous early cents that were affordable because of the "details" label. They had pits, scratches, gouges, environmental damage, but were, in my opinion, beautiful specimens in a condition I could never afford without the "details" label. So I started buying really attractive ones and now I have a collection I can enjoy and am now working on the liberty cap half cents. I know I will not own gradeable specimens, but it is what it is. Thanks for your help and neo also. It makes it far more enjoyable to speak with all collectors on the forum in these regards.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
On quick review:
Obverse of your coin: giant heavy “1” in date without top serif and flat across the top. No known ‘94 obverse with those characteristics.
Reverse of your coin: stemless. No known ‘94 stemless reverses.
Conclusion: Fantasy half cent.
I believe now it to be a 94 high relief C-8(CORRECTION C-9), even though I don't feel the ribbon is broken on the specimen coin. Hope I'm not rushing to be first. lol
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
A question for anyone reading this post of the unknown coin by @burfle23, Is there any chance that wear could cause the ribbon bow to not show as a broken bow? That is the only think I can see to prevent its being a C-9. @NeophyteNumismatist are you seeing this?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I've spent a lot of time (Probably too much) straining my eyes on this one.
Overall, it looks real enough though corroded, obviously. It does have a reasonable amount of detail though.
It refuses to obey my command to fall into its proper place.
The reverse is definitely a '94 style with the lower left branch reading berry, leaf, ribbon, left to right, as only the '94's do, but as @jesbbroken notes the reverse it matches best, B, should have an incomplete bow, presumably from overpolishing of the die. That defect is not due to a die crack. So B just doesn't seem to work, nor do any of the other '94 reverses.
A similarly big problem for me is the obverse. All the 94 obverses, low and high relief, are large-sized, butting up to or very close to the "LIBERTY" inscription.
The obverse on the present coin seems smaller, fairly distant from the R in LIBERTY, unlike any other '94 obverse. It looks more like the smaller head on a '95, '96 or '97 obverse, distant from LIBERTY, but then the aforementioned pattern of the of the base of the left branch on the reverse would be wrong.
This is a really interesting coin. Sometimes in coin collecting, new things are found under the sun, often in low grade coins. This might be a coin to have some professional eyes laid upon.
to me, the head looks like a 1795 head. I am looking at the hair just below the cap. I also think the profile from top of forehead to nose tip are more aligned to the head of 1795. The nose looks a little large in general, but that could just be wear. I can't attribute it, but I am guessing a 1795 head was used.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
The Chinese counterfeiters are knocking of GMMs and Daniel Carrs; this is a GMM half cent fake. Both of these were posted this week on the bay, with this one (I posted here) more "worn" to look genuine.
@burfle23
Ha ha!
Thought I was going nuts.
Coin seemed to have an unknown ‘94 reverse and a non-‘94 obverse.
They best part of the scam was the artificial aging of the coin. That was excellent and looked authentic, at least in pix. In hand, I would have weighed the coin and looked at the edge lettering—a lot of time the Chinese don’t get that right.
What’s funny is that I’ve got many of the GMM originals including the 1793, 1794 and both 1796’s half cents, but I don’t have the ‘97. Never thought of a scuffed up counterfeit of a GMM reproduction.
That is something new under the sun, but in a bad way!
I’m on vacay, so don’t have my usual references available. I’m paranoid now, but who would go to the time and trouble of counterfeiting a lowly ‘33 half cent, the most available of all half cents? But this one doesn’t look right. The well-defined, yet fine center spot, has been replaced by what looks like a pimple ready to blow and the fine inner structures of Liberty’s ear have been replaced by a Vienna sausage. Finally, while someone tried the replicate the fine y-shaped die crack usually seen connecting the B to the E in the word LIBERTY in the headband, they didn’t get it quite right.
But again, this is a dangerous counterfeit. It looks pretty good, it’s a common coin, and unless you’re suspicious from the start, you’re going to likely be taken. Scary.
There’s a series of stories in this week’s Numismatic News on what they are calling “Super counterfeits.” These are so good the pro authenticators are having trouble recognizing them. They are made using 3D images of legitimate coins, using appropriate alloys. The way the fakes are currently recognized is through the carry over of ‘Easter Egg’ defects from the mother coin to the daughter coins, like bumps and scratches. This works for unc. coins, but is not so well for circ. coins, particularly if the daughter coin is carried around for a while in someone’s pocket to add new marks. All in all, pretty depressing for those who invested time and resources in the hobby. The coins @burfle23 has graciously posted here show counterfeit attacks are not just being mounted on 6 figure investor coins, but also on very low level collector coins as well. Much of this relates to the semi official government manufacturing activity of our Asian friends who justify their activities as simply the production of high quality souvenirs and replicas.
Sorry I didn’t know. I’m a stranger in a strange land. I was heavily into old copper until 30 years ago when I shifted to currency (hence my current moniker). The past couple months I drifted back here for old times sake, but I haven’t kept up with current issues in the coin realm, which I now see as kind of disturbing. I’m a bit of an idiot savant over here. I know coins but no longer their context.
Counterfeit issues aren’t quite such an issue with currency, in part because of unique serial numbers, but there’s the same cleaning issues, pressing/bleaching (instead of dipping, and the insanity of chasing ‘ Top Pop’s” and competitive registered sets.
Wish at times I could just go back to 50’s when I was making a couple runs a day to trade penny and dime rolls for new ones at the bank to try to fill empty slots in my coin folders. Was a lot more fun to do that than try to figure out if someone’s try to cheat me.
Back to the 1833, not being a true student of half cents I really had to study this one...
Friends who do specialize in the series remarked this one is pretty good for what it is, but when you look it is over "detailed" and some fine details are slightly off.
Yes, one of the best ways to assess these as real or phoney is the look at the denticles and see where the points of the stars or letters are positioned or point, to the denticle itself or to the space between the denticles. Unfortunately, this technique is not available with well worn coins where the denticles are worn away.
Sorry Jack that I didn't recognize your expertise in the area. Now I understand why you have posted so many fakes. I had thought you were the most unlucky collector in the world, but now I realize people are sending you problem coins to get your professional opinion and to expand your knowledge base.
My experience with fakes goes back to 1974 when I purchased a BU ‘27 gold St. Gaudens double eagle through the mail whose color looked a bit off. The diagnosis of fakery (probably Lebanese in origin) 15 years later derived from abnormalities in the edge lettering. Luckily, it was real gold, so at least I got bullion value back at the time I traded it in on the purchase of another coin.
Keep up the good work Jack. You are fighting the good fight for all of us.
@snizzle sorry for the delay. I need to keep up with my own thread.
Braided hair half cents are all C-1 , as there is only one die variety per date.
The 1835 Classic head is a C-2. There are two varieties for the date. The C-2 can be differentiated from the C-1 due to having a slight gap between the "S" and "T" in "STATES" of the reverse.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Nice set of later date, low mintage half cents.
All these look to be encapsulated, so maybe it might be fun to guess the grades.
I’m bad at grading high condition coins, but will give it a try:
1853: MS63 BN
1857: AU 58
1856: AU53
1835: EF45
1854: MS62 BN, but perhaps earned a comment about cleaning or questionable color.
In any case, a nice group.
@snizzle Can I be a pest and ask you to post the grades of your coins. Your coins are very nice, and I find myself checking back to see if @DoctorPaper was right. I feel that he is probably pretty close.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Ok sorry for delay I work hvac in the south I have been busy
Real close on your grading I agree with the cleaning on the
1854
Thanks for the answer @NeophyteNumismatist
Comments
Here's one for you Neo and anyone else interested.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I cannot imagine any genuine Liberty Cap Half Cent in identifiable condition being questionable for slabbing. I only have one as of yet, a 1795 No Pole Thin Plancet C6a. Looking forward to the day I can afford more.
Jiim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
1826 C1 reverse on the 1811 counterfeit.,,,
@jesbbroken I wish I should see the date more clearly on the 1804. I would say this is a late die state of a C-9. The date looks a little too spread to be an early state C-10.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
I thought you'd all get a kick out of this. I took pics of this at the last small local show here. The owner was about to send it off to PCGS at the time, and they reported back VG details. I've seen worse in straight grade holders in this grade, and may be working on acquiring it soon. Due to the thread topic, I suppose no introduction is needed, though we all know this coin is a HUGE deal.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
I struggled with this because there was no die crack above IBER at all that I can see unless there is the very early start of said die crack. Not sure what the scratch/die crack rim thru L is. Here are a couple more pics. I feel it to be an EDS of C-9. I agree there is too much spread for a C-10. IMO
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@opportunity - Very cool 1804 C2 (R.6). I agree that I have seen some rougher examples with straight grades. I am thinking that this coin was struck on an uneven planchet due to the weakness on the lefthand side of the obverse and reverse.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Yep, that is a feature seen on every C-2.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
@opportunity
Nice coin, hope you get it.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Interesting thread. Many of these are contemporary counterfeits, no?
None of mine.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
There’s gold in some of those low grade specimens. This is what makes the hunt so exciting.
I think the early die crack IS there. The early stage of the crack can be seen on this specimen sold at a Heritage auction which is almost identical to the posted one. You can see a fine line running running from the the top of the R to the top of the T and another running at 45 degrees from the top of the Y to the rim.
Heritage specimen:
Posted specimen:
Finally, because it’s been stated that every know specimen (I didn’t check this) has been reported to have the same reported weakness of strike on both sides from K8 to K10, this characteristic is not due to individual planchet irregularity, but very much more likely due to die misalignment where one of the dies was slightly canted away from the horizontal plane. It is quite likely this misalignment caused undue pressure on the dies, resulting in early cracking followed by die shattering of the obverse die. This is presumably why there are so few specimens of ‘04 C-2 known. The obverse die failed quickly.
It's for sure a C-2. I saw the coin in hand when it was raw, and PCGS gave it the C-2 attribution already when the current owner submitted it. I think it's probably DS 1.0, but I'd wanna see it again.
As for that comparison to the PCGS 30 CAC...yowzers, lol.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
What about this 1802 Draped Bust Half Cent currently on ebay?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
The 1802 seems genuine, just messed up. What are you wondering about it?
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
@jesbroken
Regarding the 1802 above. Looks like it was in the ground for a couple hundred years. I can’t find anything on it that doesn’t ‘fit’ a legitimate ‘02/0, C-2 overdate, but points of comparison are limited due to the amount of corrosion. Date looks good which is very oddball on this variety. I suspect it’s real and would be a decent filler. It will be interesting to see what it brings. 02 is a key date, so there should be a bit of interest from the hole fillers, especially since the date faces up very well on this particular coin.
The 2 is so deformed from environment, I just couldn't get past it.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbroken I see it now at a "buy it now" price for $695. I agree that you should get one that you can live with. Thanks so much for your contributions to the thread, too. It makes it much more fun.
Thanks to the others, too. You really do make this thread fun!
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
@jesbroken said, “ I just couldn’t get past it.” when referring to the corroded ‘02 half cent upthread.
What you can tolerate when dealing with old time copper rarities is an important factor in building a collection of these scarce coins, especially because prices can be quite significant for perfect specimens, even at low grades. It might be interesting to see some of the ugly ducklings in people’s collections.
Here’s one of mine, a ‘93 C-2. It’s a dog, but it fills a slot. When looking with my eye, I don’t all the pink that shows up in these photo’s, but it is pretty corroded indeed. What else is out there?
Thanks, @DoctorPaper. Like your name, btw. I truly understand about coin affordability. I started years ago buying coins barely readable, due to expense(talking about early cents for the most part) and one day I discovered via the forum that so many member collectors couldn't tolerate the thought of owning detail coins. I started checking on auction sites and found many gorgeous early cents that were affordable because of the "details" label. They had pits, scratches, gouges, environmental damage, but were, in my opinion, beautiful specimens in a condition I could never afford without the "details" label. So I started buying really attractive ones and now I have a collection I can enjoy and am now working on the liberty cap half cents. I know I will not own gradeable specimens, but it is what it is. Thanks for your help and neo also. It makes it far more enjoyable to speak with all collectors on the forum in these regards.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
My latest unattributed add:
Can't tell for sure without edge letter photo. Small edge letters or large edge letters?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
On quick review:
Obverse of your coin: giant heavy “1” in date without top serif and flat across the top. No known ‘94 obverse with those characteristics.
Reverse of your coin: stemless. No known ‘94 stemless reverses.
Conclusion: Fantasy half cent.
It is in the mail; I am told it is a plain edge...
And another I can't attribute...
I believe it to be a 94 High relief Half Cent. Going to be tough to ascertain the attribution correctly though.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I believe now it to be a 94 high relief C-8(CORRECTION C-9), even though I don't feel the ribbon is broken on the specimen coin. Hope I'm not rushing to be first. lol
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
A question for anyone reading this post of the unknown coin by @burfle23, Is there any chance that wear could cause the ribbon bow to not show as a broken bow? That is the only think I can see to prevent its being a C-9. @NeophyteNumismatist are you seeing this?
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@jesbbroken @burfle23
I've spent a lot of time (Probably too much) straining my eyes on this one.
Overall, it looks real enough though corroded, obviously. It does have a reasonable amount of detail though.
It refuses to obey my command to fall into its proper place.
The reverse is definitely a '94 style with the lower left branch reading berry, leaf, ribbon, left to right, as only the '94's do, but as @jesbbroken notes the reverse it matches best, B, should have an incomplete bow, presumably from overpolishing of the die. That defect is not due to a die crack. So B just doesn't seem to work, nor do any of the other '94 reverses.
A similarly big problem for me is the obverse. All the 94 obverses, low and high relief, are large-sized, butting up to or very close to the "LIBERTY" inscription.
The obverse on the present coin seems smaller, fairly distant from the R in LIBERTY, unlike any other '94 obverse. It looks more like the smaller head on a '95, '96 or '97 obverse, distant from LIBERTY, but then the aforementioned pattern of the of the base of the left branch on the reverse would be wrong.
This is a really interesting coin. Sometimes in coin collecting, new things are found under the sun, often in low grade coins. This might be a coin to have some professional eyes laid upon.
to me, the head looks like a 1795 head. I am looking at the hair just below the cap. I also think the profile from top of forehead to nose tip are more aligned to the head of 1795. The nose looks a little large in general, but that could just be wear. I can't attribute it, but I am guessing a 1795 head was used.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
OK, a fake of a something else...
The Chinese counterfeiters are knocking of GMMs and Daniel Carrs; this is a GMM half cent fake. Both of these were posted this week on the bay, with this one (I posted here) more "worn" to look genuine.
@burfle23
Ha ha!
Thought I was going nuts.
Coin seemed to have an unknown ‘94 reverse and a non-‘94 obverse.
They best part of the scam was the artificial aging of the coin. That was excellent and looked authentic, at least in pix. In hand, I would have weighed the coin and looked at the edge lettering—a lot of time the Chinese don’t get that right.
What’s funny is that I’ve got many of the GMM originals including the 1793, 1794 and both 1796’s half cents, but I don’t have the ‘97. Never thought of a scuffed up counterfeit of a GMM reproduction.
That is something new under the sun, but in a bad way!
Back to my "fantasy" 1794 half cent- weight is 8.1 grams; edge images off as well:
Comparison of mine on the left, a genuine 1794 C-2 on the right; my reverse is mated to a stemless draped bust half cent...
What do you folks think of this one?
@NeophyteNumismatist ?
I’m on vacay, so don’t have my usual references available. I’m paranoid now, but who would go to the time and trouble of counterfeiting a lowly ‘33 half cent, the most available of all half cents? But this one doesn’t look right. The well-defined, yet fine center spot, has been replaced by what looks like a pimple ready to blow and the fine inner structures of Liberty’s ear have been replaced by a Vienna sausage. Finally, while someone tried the replicate the fine y-shaped die crack usually seen connecting the B to the E in the word LIBERTY in the headband, they didn’t get it quite right.
But again, this is a dangerous counterfeit. It looks pretty good, it’s a common coin, and unless you’re suspicious from the start, you’re going to likely be taken. Scary.
Sorry, I was away at a conference. @DoctorPaper I am certainly glad you joined this thread. I really love your contributions. Thanks.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
There’s a series of stories in this week’s Numismatic News on what they are calling “Super counterfeits.” These are so good the pro authenticators are having trouble recognizing them. They are made using 3D images of legitimate coins, using appropriate alloys. The way the fakes are currently recognized is through the carry over of ‘Easter Egg’ defects from the mother coin to the daughter coins, like bumps and scratches. This works for unc. coins, but is not so well for circ. coins, particularly if the daughter coin is carried around for a while in someone’s pocket to add new marks. All in all, pretty depressing for those who invested time and resources in the hobby. The coins @burfle23 has graciously posted here show counterfeit attacks are not just being mounted on 6 figure investor coins, but also on very low level collector coins as well. Much of this relates to the semi official government manufacturing activity of our Asian friends who justify their activities as simply the production of high quality souvenirs and replicas.
I have been writing about the "super fakes" for over 5 years now along with medium level deceptive ones and some down right cartoonish...
My Coin Week articles can be found at: https://coinweek.com/?s=Jack+D.+Young+counterfeits
The "Dark Corner" series is of counterfeits actually slabbed genuine by a TPG.
@burfle23 <>
Sorry I didn’t know. I’m a stranger in a strange land. I was heavily into old copper until 30 years ago when I shifted to currency (hence my current moniker). The past couple months I drifted back here for old times sake, but I haven’t kept up with current issues in the coin realm, which I now see as kind of disturbing. I’m a bit of an idiot savant over here. I know coins but no longer their context.
Counterfeit issues aren’t quite such an issue with currency, in part because of unique serial numbers, but there’s the same cleaning issues, pressing/bleaching (instead of dipping, and the insanity of chasing ‘ Top Pop’s” and competitive registered sets.
Wish at times I could just go back to 50’s when I was making a couple runs a day to trade penny and dime rolls for new ones at the bank to try to fill empty slots in my coin folders. Was a lot more fun to do that than try to figure out if someone’s try to cheat me.
Back to the 1833, not being a true student of half cents I really had to study this one...
Friends who do specialize in the series remarked this one is pretty good for what it is, but when you look it is over "detailed" and some fine details are slightly off.
Yes, one of the best ways to assess these as real or phoney is the look at the denticles and see where the points of the stars or letters are positioned or point, to the denticle itself or to the space between the denticles. Unfortunately, this technique is not available with well worn coins where the denticles are worn away.
Found the article you were referring to @DoctorPaper ; actually written by my Friend Skip. Just a note, I am the "Jack Young" he mentions in this one with my Group "Dark Side"
: https://www.numismaticnews.net/us-coins/super-fakes-challenge-authenticators?fbclid=IwAR2RDmX6ytl3kpnZCCfEfC4Bh4SC6pt4ieQYKxNtHcxywkqN9QHLJfygSN4
@burfle23
Sorry Jack that I didn't recognize your expertise in the area. Now I understand why you have posted so many fakes. I had thought you were the most unlucky collector in the world, but now I realize people are sending you problem coins to get your professional opinion and to expand your knowledge base.
My experience with fakes goes back to 1974 when I purchased a BU ‘27 gold St. Gaudens double eagle through the mail whose color looked a bit off. The diagnosis of fakery (probably Lebanese in origin) 15 years later derived from abnormalities in the edge lettering. Luckily, it was real gold, so at least I got bullion value back at the time I traded it in on the purchase of another coin.
Keep up the good work Jack. You are fighting the good fight for all of us.
Joe
Here are a couple I finally dug out any knowledge is appreciated
@snizzle sorry for the delay. I need to keep up with my own thread.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Nice set of later date, low mintage half cents.
All these look to be encapsulated, so maybe it might be fun to guess the grades.
I’m bad at grading high condition coins, but will give it a try:
1853: MS63 BN
1857: AU 58
1856: AU53
1835: EF45
1854: MS62 BN, but perhaps earned a comment about cleaning or questionable color.
In any case, a nice group.
@snizzle Can I be a pest and ask you to post the grades of your coins. Your coins are very nice, and I find myself checking back to see if @DoctorPaper was right. I feel that he is probably pretty close.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Ok sorry for delay I work hvac in the south I have been busy
Real close on your grading I agree with the cleaning on the
1854
Thanks for the answer @NeophyteNumismatist
@snizzle
Thanks for the followup.
Glad to see I was in the ballpark.
I must be learning!😁