CoinWorld - CAC Grading Service
FlyingAl
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It appears that the rumors that have been floating around are possibly true. I saw this on another forum and figured I'd share it here too.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/cac-grading-service-planned-for-start-in-2023
Coin Photographer.
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Comments
Up next: The announcement of a new company to review and sticker CAC-graded coins.
It would be funny if PCGS would establish a service to review and sticker those CAC slabbed coins that they deem worthy of a PCGS sticker.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Update - CAC itself has confirmed the article is correct and true.
Coin Photographer.
I just hope the slab size is the same as the current PCGS size. My OCD already has issues squaring the PCGS/NGC size difference not to mention rattlers.
oh boy, here we go
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I am curious how the public perception of a CAC sticker will be on a CAC graded coin?
Wouldn’t a Gold bean be indicative of an incorrectly graded coin?
Something to ponder…
Interesting and does make sense. I wonder what the holder will look like.
From the article in the OP:
"We will be phasing out the stickers over time."
(Second to last paragraph)
This will get interesting, will the PCGS and NGC registries begin to accept the newly certified CAC coins since they both award bonus points for slabs with stickers. Will collectors desire CAC slabs if they are not allowed into the current registries? In that article JA indicates that CAC will start a new registry itself, lots of change on the horizon.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
JA has said previously that they’ll likely entomb the coins in amber. Here’s an early prototype.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
This thread will last for about 15 more minutes
Latin American Collection
Next thing you know there will be Old CAC Stickered coin holders, similar to OGH.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
just another marketing gimmick to get people to spend more money on sending coins in and it will work people will try for the new top spot in the coin world
shut up or put up i care little
Wow. This could really get interesting.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Will the turnaround time be better?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I was struck by a couple of points in the article:
1) Only being offered (initially) to the current 3000 CAC members.
2) Only focusing (initially) on US coins - no world coins or "paper" money.
Those two factors alone will keep them in the niche category (initially, at least).
Tim
I wonder if there will be "sample" holders?
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
One point to note in the article is the 125 strategic partners. From the ANA I knew a couple people who had been 'offered' this and why I then said I thought it was going to happen. This partnership to me is similar to how CAC initially started with shared investment partners and then initial CAC dealers. There could also be a surprise coming.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
It's hardly a "marketing gimmick".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There won’t be stickers
Probably heading back to the days when any CAC thread was nuked in short order.
I wonder how many collectors will chose to simply ignore grading companies and collect raw coins and fill albums?
Ideally hobbies are supposed to be fun. If grading coins and obtaining stickers no longer is fun (i.e. extended grading turnaround times, quality control problems, etc.) I can imagine some persons walking away.
However, the evolution of the business side of the hobby is interesting to watch (as technology progresses and more information is made available to the collecting public in the USA and globally, more and more "stuff" has to happen to get and keep the interest of collectors).
If they are phasing out stickers, then I wonder how they will differentiate those
coins which are in the "top 30%" at the grade level?
That is, what happens when they receive a coin that "would not sticker at the grade"?
Will they use plus grades to handle this?
If so, it implies we might see G-4+ coins in CAC holders.
Some people believe that most of the "top end" older coins have already been to CAC.
So I wonder what volume and types of coins they are seeing these days.
It will be interesting to see what this does to turnaround times at our host and NGC. Also what will it do to costs?
More competition is always a good thing.
Collector, occasional seller
I suspect most already do.
I think it's too bad!
I like the CAC program the way it is; I find value in a CAC sticker. But I doubt very much I'll see value in a CAC-graded coin different from the value I already see in NGC- and PCGS-graded coins. I expect that I will like them just fine, but I don't see any gain for the collector in having a third top-tier grading service (unless it results in quicker turnaround and/or lower costs, overall).
We'll be gaining another grading service, but losing the existing CAC program. I think that's a net loss.
As I posted over in the CAC forum, I may need to change my name to CACgold in 2023.
It will be interesting what they do about plus coins because to date they ignore that part of the grade.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
The business side of the hobby is detracting from the joy of collecting coins. I was very enthusiastic when third party grading started. I was tired of a dealer telling me his coin was BU and then telling me that my coin - sometimes the same one - was an Unc. when I tried to sell it (back) to him.
Now we had standards. It was like having an insurance policy of sorts on numismatic coins. I liked the idea of more than one grading service around, as this would help insure the integrity of coin grading.
I was indifferent when CAC started, because in what I collect, I could generally tell what was and was not nice for the grade, and I always had someone to whom I could refer to (that knew more than I did) to get an expert opinion confirming or disagreeing with my assessment.
But I could see how people collecting expensive coins for registry sets would want their coins stickered for purposes of marketability. I saw CAC as a casting a wider net version of Rick Snow's Photo Seal sticker on Flyers and IHC that he liked.
Now this. The company saying a coin is / is not nice for the grade is now grading them. How will their grading be different than PCGS or NGC? How will the market digest this?
Over the years, market consensus was that PCGS was about 1/2 point tighter grading MS 65 Capped Bust Halves over their NGC counterparts, and priced them accordingly.
Flash forward: I can see market consensus for a CAC graded MS 65 $20 Saint being sold for a premium over a PCGS or NGC counterpart, market consensus for an NGC graded MS 65 BN Large Cent being sold for a premium over a PCGS or CAC graded counterpart, and market consensus for a PCGS Seated Dollar in MS 65 being for a premium over a CAC or NGC graded counterpart.
And keep in mind, we have seen that grading opinions / standards -- as well as what constitutes a superior for the grade coin at CAC - change over time. How do we, as collectors choose to deal with this? To say I am not happy about this is an understatement.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Perhaps they will only holder coins that they deem A or B for the grade?
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I'm a bit surprised that folks might be negative on this news.
In truth, if folks don't want a third reputable TPG then they don't need to use it, just like they didn't need to use CAC to examine coins from NGC or PCGS and they needn't have used NGC or PCGS to certify any coins. The idea of a phase-out of the CAC sticker could certainly hit a segment of the market and collectors, but what we have read at this time is that the CAC sticker might be phased out in the future. As we all know, "in the future" can mean anything from right now to never (an example being nearly any government stating it will get its country to carbon neutral in X years with X being a euphemism for never).
The greater market will figure this out and we are all allowed to participate or play in it to whatever extent each of us wishes. If the CAC grading service goes down in flames then it goes down in flames. Perhaps the CAC sticker will survive such flames, but maybe it won't. Regardless, the coins will be there and someone might fill the niche.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
My personal belief is that they are misinterpreting the demand for their affirmation service as something that will translate as demand for a new grading/encapsulation service. I am very skeptical that this will be a successful endeavor. Disclaimer that I very much enjoy the hobby as it is and do not view this announcement as a positive development.
Will eBay accept them as a TPG like the existing 4 - PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG?
As to pricing:
How will CPG reflect their Market Value? Will this be merged with the CAC number they report for CAC?
Will they have an app like PCGS & NGC which shows MV, Population, etc? What about an inventory manager?
WOW
Above a certain financial level which is collector specific, the fun aspect for most buyers is secondary to protecting their "investment".
This is true for me too, which is one reason I don't and won't buy most coins including any US. Most world coins lack adequate marketability and too many US coins are too expensive for the actual collectable attributes. I'm also not interested in losing a noticeable proportion of my cost for what I consider to be predominantly uninteresting or common coins either.
Does CAC Grading look at your coin and say: Your coin is technically a MS65, but just barely. Meaning it is not an A or B coin, but rather a C coin for the grade. Therefore, you get your MS65 coin back in a body bag?
However, one extra ding or scuff would make the the exact same coin a technical MS64. So you send the now MS64 coin back to CAC Grading and maybe it is considered an A for the MS64 grade? So the formerly unslabable MS65 is now slabable because it is a lower grade.
Or do you check a box with your submission asking that C coins be considered for the next lower grade, even if the grader believes the coin is technically a higher grade, but a C?
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
In the short term I will likely get CAC stickers while I can, as I like the PCGS holder. But, if CAC comes out with a nice looking holder (no ugly prongs), it would be something to consider.
I would definitely be a customer if they grade GSA and Redfield coins with the grading label on the reverse (and thus not covering up the lettering on the obverse), and do not "entomb" the coin like PCGS does.
Not very complicated in my view. A very well respected player in the coin business is willing to attach grades to and encapsulate coins for their customers. Their grading standards will logically be on par with their peers. The bean program will obviously be available for the same coins (as currently) in the future, for some period of time.
A coin they find (as an example) MS 64 but a (c) quality coin will still be graded MS 64. Whether they bean the coins they grade will be the greatest point of interest for me.
The slabs they manufacture should be similar in size and be attractive, doing something different would be playing with fire.
They take pride in a one week turn around currently. I'd imagine 2 weeks (or so) would be their target. That ought to light a fire under someone's ass.
Grading fees should be competitive.
I'd certainly be willing to give them a try.
I'm confused... More so than usual
I am curious about several aspects may effect the older white ANACS holders from back in the day when they were the only game in town with varieties... How will CAC handle the attribution and will there be a greater submission fee to deal with these types of ANACS coins? Would these coins be better served to remain as they are currently graded?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Too much obsession with slabs and stickers on this and many other forums. No wonder another thread just now out there (for the upteenth time) asks if the hobby is dead.
If you're interested in a new grading service, use them. If not, don't. Seems easy enough to me.
There might be less confusion if people waited to see what CAC has to say about how their service will work instead of imagining all sorts of hypothetical situations and complaining about how they won't work.
Just sayin'.
The plot sickens......er thickens.
More middleman money.
"We will be phasing out the stickers over time."
Watch the premiums on CAC stickered PCGS and NGC slabs take off.
Well, it is a PCGS forum after all.
I don't think we need to get into the weeds of speculation and derail the topic. We'll have information when we get it.
Collector, occasional seller
Eventually we can expect to hear wailing and gnashing of teeth from collectors who submit a PCGS or NGC graded coin with a sticker to CAC grading for a crossover & have it denied. Moreover, I wonder how many coins with gold stickers will get submitted for crossover?
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Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
I'm thinking the plus graded coins for sure since CAC ignores plus grades. They also don't sticker doctored gold coins so that will be interesting to watch. Everyone is discussion a coin going down a grade to get a CAC slab but there are a lot of gold coins out there that JA will not slab (even though PCGS and NGC do).
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
Can you define “doctored gold coins” so we know what you mean?
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Lots more moving parts processing and attributing raw coins and crossovers. If CAC gets it right this is a brilliant move. Hope the holder is well thought out and attractive.
Many gold coins do not sticker with JA because of "things" people have done. It's not the grade that is off, it is the originality.
I am not a doctor, so I will others explain what people do.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572