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Pedigrees On Labels
MWallace
Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is anyone besides me tired of seeing Pedigrees on slab labels of people or collections you've never heard of? Is it a vanity thing on their part? I understand and appreciate pedigrees such as Norweb, Eliasberg, and such, but pedigrees such as The Joe Schmo Collection is ridiculous.
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I have no interest in seeing any Pedigree on a coin.
Successful BST with BustDMs , Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino (CBH's - 35 Die Marriage's)
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
I like the pedigrees of famous collectors such as Eliasberg, Garett, etc on the slab label but I don't like the pedigrees of most relatively unknown collectors on the slab label.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I have never been a fan of pedigrees on slabs.... It makes no difference to me if Eliasberg or other collector owned the coin previously. However, some collectors like them... so they have a place in numismatic collections. Cheers, RickO
Your average Joe pedigree is no interest to me but many people value history of an item rather than the item itself.
To each his own...
Ounce by ounce the stack grows .
I agree. I also think for pedigrees like Norweb, Eliasberg, etc., the item AND the pedigree can both be appreciated. However, there are coins appreciated for the pedigree rather than the item. A couple that come to mind are Ground Zero coins and Binion Hoard coins. If I collected pens for example, I would appreciate the pedigree of a pen once owned by President Kennedy more than the pen itself. Like you said, "To each his own..." Basically that is what I was asking in the original post, what each person thinks.
Any coin i buy that has a modern registry era pedigree on it or a marketing gimick pedigree (i.e. Omaha Bank Hoard, Teich, etc...) i'll have it reslabbed and the pedigree removed. I dont care who owned it.
I will leave a pedigree on if it matters for that coin series. For example Jack Lee for a Morgan, or Naftzger for a large cent.
I collect exonumia where provenance tracking isn't as mature as US coins so, in this area, any information is good right now and the more the merrier. We're still at the stage of documenting some of the major collectors.
If you don't like it, it's pretty easy to remove, just send it to the TPG like people mentioned above.
I will say that I do miss provenances for major collectors that didn't have them like Gene Gardner and Bill Fivaz.
I also don't mind when Mr. Schmo is a forum member
What if it were the coin(s) in Lincoln's pocket when he got shot?
What a pedigree that would be. Smithsonian is so damn lucky.
Ounce by ounce the stack grows .
That is one FINE coin Sir!
Ounce by ounce the stack grows .
@MWallace I'm not sure if you would appreciate it, but I would certainly appreciate a slab that said "Wallace Collection", especially for small dollar pieces!
It certainly is! @crazyhounddog has a wonderful, stand out collection, so I totally appreciate the provenance on the slab!
How does crazyhounddog or JoeSchmo get PCGS to include the pedigree on the label?
Who the f@$x is Darryl Gomez?
What does his pedigree signify?
Well he is me...
I wrote the authoritative numismatic reference on the POTUS special Government medals (aka Presidents Eisenhower & Kennedy appreciation medals) manufactured by the US Mint. https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13059624/#Comment_13059624
President Eisenhower & Kennedy appreciation medals with this pedigree label indicates they were part of my original research collection. No other coin or medal bears this pedigree label.
To date, this research collection is intact. None have been sold nor traded.
The pedigree label was my way to aid my heirs in selling or donating my research collection.
Lastly, the TPG company provided this label service at no cost to me.
By the way, here is my wrte-up on pedigree and provenance. I defined the differences at my ANA blog back in 2017.
https://www.money.org/collector/drdarryl/blog/provenance-to-pedigree
I do sometimes learn things... I saw "Child Collection" on a slab and it prompted me to find out what that was...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I'll see what I can do.
Ask.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/949479/pedigree-vs-provenance
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1014885/crazyhounddog-pcgs-coin-update/p1
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Coins don't have pedigrees, dogs do. Coins have provenances.
Correct, but one definition of pedigree, Merriam-Webster Dictionary is: " the origin and the history of something".
That's our world now - broaden the definition. I have people that ask me to "borrow" them $5. I tell them, I can LEND you $5, or you can BORROW $5 from me, but I can't BORROW it to them.
The definition will soon change. Just like using IRREGARDLESS.
I enjoy tracing and connecting the provenance of my coins and have added value in the process.
Latin American Collection
That's not changing the definition, that's just bad English clearly from bad education. The dumbing down of America at it's finest.
Or, maybe they are German.
I heard Germans say that when they were speaking English. In German there is one word for borrow/lend, and they carry that over to English.
I have a couple counterstamped coins from the Brunk collection. I wish they came slabbed but alas they are just in flips with the auction tag.
I have some second tier slab that says it came from www.SmallDollars.com, which I received from some aging hippy in North Carolina (I have seen pictures), and who I am pretty sure had a hand in getting them slabbed ... so ...
... if he can do it, anyone can!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
If corporate product sponsors are allowed to add a pedigree to slabs, you might see a Pedigree dog food pedigree? 🤔
Very cool! PCGS slabs Brunk cataloged pieces so it’s something to think about.
I’d love to have a piece that Greg stamped himself with his own name!
I know provenance doesn't interest everyone, but I personally enjoy the extra history attached to the pieces I collect.
Names like Ford, Boyd, Garrett, Zabriskie, Tanenbaum, Fuld, Bowers. These were serious guys in the hobby, and I'm proud to own things they found were the best examples for their respective collections.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
That's a promotional slab, which is a different kettle of fish. And yes, I would love to have one in my collection.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
There are two ways to get a pedigree.
1. You have a great collection that you have assembled. Then those coins and any that you add to it also are pedigreed. You then have a perpetual pedigree like Mr. Hansen. Even when he updates his Registry Set coins his old coins retains their pedigree, unlike the rest of us that update our sets.
2. You must have a top 5 complete set in the PCGS Registry. That earns a pedigree from PCGS for most sets. These sets if updated with a new coin have the older coin must have the pedigree removed.
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
Your average Joe provenance is of no interest to me. If you must put one on the slab, put it on the reverse side.
Hi, I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother Darryl!"
-- Bob Newhart show.
BHNC #203
Believe it or not there's quite a following in the Jefferson Nickel circles for Omaha Bank Hoard coins.
I like your provenance too Den!
Your own and have sold some amazing items! It would be great to track them all!
Here’s a thought. Do you (and others of the same inclination) just dislike them when they become part of your collection? Or do you dislike them even when they are owned by others?
If the former, you can just have it removed after you acquire it as mentioned. If the latter, you may be running up against owners who presumably like it as they are asking for it.
Great info Darryl! It’s great seeing these to go along with all the research you’re doing.
The only I see missing is the doctor! Can you get it updated to say:
“Dr. Darryl Gomez Collection”
It’s great to see the participation of degreed people in the hobby. We had 2 doctors run for ANA President recently!
I do get it. Some so called "pedigrees" are just plain silly and uncalled for. Only a hand full are worth mentioning. Ex:
Redfield
Many people, such as myself. Search for the old school holders. Ala, "Rattlers, Soap Box, Fatties..." These are also, in a sense, pedagree too. Like I mentioned earlier, I for one, love finding any of these. Which in fact, can bring a premium better than some so called pedigrees that you are talking about.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.If I would choose anybodys pedigree, it would be Joe's! Crazyhounddog. His coins are AWESOME!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.That's a fair question. I've never had one removed, but I have passed on a coin that has an "Unknown to me" pedigree for one that does not have it on the label. I think what bugs me is that there are beginning to be so many that I'll bet 95% of collectors have never heard of it. There is one dealer (who will remain nameless) that I highly suspect is putting his name on virtually everything he sells as part of The Xxx Xxxxxx Collection. I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a vanity thing. There are just too many common, low grade pieces to have been in the collection of this specialist. Maybe I'm wrong.
First, I didn't read the entire thread.
Second, Many of my coins have my pedigree (your set needs to make the top five on PCGS to get the Pedigree).
Third, If you don't like it have it removed, or move on and purchase a different coin. Some of my customers are glad to have a coin with my pedigree, and I am proud of that. To each his/her own, and it is a simple reholder to have it removed.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
A little over a quarter century ago while I was in the sales/marketing profession, happened a business meeting with the top honchos of a leading denim brand and casually asked them as to why their product was being marked up so high when it is being made in a third world country using the local fabric and labor with a max. cost of 3.50$ which including shipping etc. for a pair of denim jeans.
Their chief gave me a disgusted look and said "You are not buying a mere pair of denim jeans, you are buying a brand and paying for that".
This sort of privilege has never appealed to me and find it utterly ridiculous that the price is being forked out for the label along with the "brand image" and not the actual product.
That's just me and my two cents.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
I care about the coin. I don't care who owned it before me.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I love the smell of a great answer in the morning.
That's awesome! I would appreciate your provenance and being able to learn more about the people behind the coins
It's great that you were the President of the Racine Numismatic Society from 2013-2014 as well!
So what do people here think of the following provenances on slabs?
I'm a provenance proponent so I appreciate them, but I'm curious to hear about others.
Here is a tough provenance. At the time, I was not collecting modern issues, but wanted to attend the release ceremony. I had to convince the TPG company over the phone. My donation to the Fort McHenry National Monument and National Shrine was the convincing factor.
The story...
https://coins.collectors-society.com/WCM/CoinCustomSetView.aspx?s=9738#:~:text=The%20medals%20in%20this%20collection%20are%20the%20only,gold%20coins%20should%20be%20shared%20with%20the%20public.
In the video, you can see me in line.
Great story, ceremony and coin.
It would have been nice if they added an Early Releases label.
I love your top hat!
@Zoins
I found the video I made a few years back