I care about who owned it if the collector or collection was assembled in a historically significant period or put away for many decades.
Example: some of the business strike Barbers in the Eliasberg collection were purchased from a dealer or collector who obtained them directly from the Mint. That is significant to the hobby/marketplace not just the purchaser.
When I see a post about pedigrees, I always think of the Crazyhounddog's special label and the story behind it.
His is great.
I really do not care about pedigrees nor will I pay extra for one.
For myself having provenance on a coin has been very helpful. I am currently writing a book about my collection after 45 years of collecting and tracking the 6000+auction records of every coin in the series. I have been able to track down nearly all of the coins, sometimes to multiple previous sales. Having a provenance on a label makes it significantly easier to go back further and figure out how many coins exist of each type and therefore it has been easier to update the rarity scale.
My collection is currently being regraded and placed with a pedigree label and I am pretty dang proud that I am one coin away from finishing a certified set that no one else has come close to doing so. So it is a big deal to me on multiple fronts
The insert says H. Weinberger Collection. I didn't know who Weinberger was so I looked him up and he's very well known in his area! So, definitely worth adding in my opinion.
Howard C. Weinberger is considered one of the founding fathers of Space Collecting, with a specialization in coins and medallions. He is the one who uncovered the full background of the Robbins Medallions and authored two books about them, providing all the historical data, including which were flown. He also published the research on the Fliteline Medals as well as the Apollo 13 and Apollo 14 Franklin Mint Medals.
His influence is far reaching as he was also the one to get Numismatic Guaranty Corp (NGC) to agree to certify the Robbins Medallions, followed by the Fliteline Medallions, the Apollo 13 and Apollo 14 Franklin Medallions and then all the medals related to Space.
Weinberger is known to have a keen eye for what would become popular among collectors. He was the first to assemble a collection of the gold Robbins Medallions and paid large sums to acquire them when people thought he was crazy.
Over the years his expertise has been sought out by collectors, dealers, auction houses and journalists. After many years, parts of his collections have come to market for collectors to enjoy. Many of the finest Medallions that have surfaced for sale can be identified as from his collection by the certification letter being addressed to him from an astronaut.
@fathom said:
I care about who owned it if the collector or collection was assembled in a historically significant period or put away for many decades.
Example: some of the business strike Barbers in the Eliasberg collection were purchased from a dealer or collector who obtained them directly from the Mint. That is significant to the hobby/marketplace not just the purchaser.
I think the coin comes first but knowing the provenance is kinda cool especially if it’s from a well know collection. It adds a dimension of history and traceability. Whether it’s on the label holder, I personally don’t care but many others do and it will potentially add value. So - I try to get pedigrees added plain and simple.
Great to find one of your coins in an old auction catalog.
@Zoins said: @MWallace I'm not sure if you would appreciate it, but I would certainly appreciate a slab that said "Wallace Collection", especially for small dollar pieces!
@Zoins said: @MWallace I'm not sure if you would appreciate it, but I would certainly appreciate a slab that said "Wallace Collection", especially for small dollar pieces!
Any provenance really worth noting does not need to be on the tag as it would be obvious as such coins are well studied and documented. Even an average Eliasberg coin is not particularly special. Ultrararities are another story and their stories are well known. AFAIAC, the pedigree relevant to a coin I have is that of myself and having vanity tags is not for me.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I consider the term Provenance is more correct here and I also believe there are two types:
--- a Provenance to History which shows the previous owners of important or notable coins which I believe is important to the Hobby. examples are those such as Norweb, Ford, Garrett, etc. but I don't believe it's important to note every coin they've owned solely because they were the owner.
--- a Provenance which tends to be ego based and is given either as an award or for a fee. examples might be Registry Set coins from yearly winners in each category, various "hoards" such as Binion with numerous ordinary coins and large submissions which receive a Provenance for no other reason than being submitted.
I am currently working on a book trying to track all of the coins that I collect and update rarity scale. Provenance on a coin certainly makes it much more simple to track versus trying to determine which coin is which from old crappy auction catalogs pictures. From an egotistical standpoint, I recently got my collection pedigreed because I am pretty damn proud that I managed to put together the most complete set ever after 45 years of collecting. So in my case important on two different levels
Interesting story; sent to me as a counterfeit, I authenticated it and agreed to send it in as a bet. I won and added the coin to my collection as "ex-counterfeit, authentic S-260"!.
I'm a provenance proponent so I appreciate them, but I'm curious to hear about others.
The crazyhounddog is a Pedigree that I would value due to the circumstances,,,,, the fire that burned his house down and everything in Paradise, CA and the fact that PCGS was able to not only salvage his collection but restored & rehodered the coins.
PCGS helped bring a good thing (giving a man back his collection) from something so terrible.
Labels with the pedigree "Darryl Gomez Collection" identifies a specimen that is in my research collection of President of the United States special Government medals (POTUS sGms). To date, none have been sold and I do not plan to sell my collection. This label ties the POTUS sGm to me and my research (so far published in two books). https://potus-sgm.com/
What is not divulged on the label is that many of these research specimens have an unbroken chain of ownership (provenance) from the US Mint to a Sitting President to every owner to the current owner. This information has not been currently published in a book, but I have been working on it for my third book.
Therefore, the label's pedigree ties the specimen to my research. And in several cases, an active unbroken chain of ownership, that can be continued to a future buyer of the medal.
Example of the President Eisenhower Class 1 medal given to George C. Allen (friend and neighbor). Not shown it the Bureau of the Mint provenance memo identifying these medals as being manufactured for use by President Eisenhower (yes, it does exist, you can see a redacted copy in some of the videos at my potus-sgm website). Items redacted below is for privacy.
Example of the President Kennedy Class 5 medal given to Miss Mary Gallagher (personal secretary of Mrs. Kennedy).
@DrDarryl said:
Labels with the pedigree "Darryl Gomez Collection" identifies a specimen that is in my research collection of President of the United States special Government medals (POTUS sGms). To date, none have been sold and I do not plan to sell my collection. This label ties the POTUS sGm to me and my research (so far published in two books). https://potus-sgm.com/
What is not divulged on the label is that many of these research specimens have an unbroken chain of ownership (provenance) from the US Mint to a Sitting President to every owner to the current owner. This information has not been currently published in a book, but I have been working on it for my third book.
Therefore, the label's pedigree ties the specimen to my research. And in several cases, an active unbroken chain of ownership, that can be continued to a future buyer of the medal.
Example of the President Eisenhower Class 1 medal given to George C. Allen (friend and neighbor). Not shown it the Bureau of the Mint provenance memo identifying these medals as being manufactured for use by President Eisenhower (yes, it does exist, you can see a redacted copy in some of the videos at my potus-sgm website). Items redacted below is for privacy.
This is wonderful information and I'm glad to hear of your ongoing research!
The one thing I'll say is that you also have a wonderful collection of Hawaiiana and it would be great for those to have your provenance as well.
If you feel it's necessary to separate out the collections from your Presidential reference collection and your Hawaiiana collection, you could create a specific research provenance like Quentin David Bowers did. You could even add your photo if you wanted to
Like the situation with your slab provenance now, the QDB provenance often comes after a long line of other important owners that are not captured on the slab. Some of them are available from his price lists. It would be great to assemble all this available information into a reference.
I like the provenance to be known when associated with a well known collector. I like the history that it brings. I would pay extra is some cases. I don’t like the gimmicky or small time collectors adding theirs.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Comments
I care about the coin FIRST. If someone I respect owned it before me it is a BONUS.
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
I care about who owned it if the collector or collection was assembled in a historically significant period or put away for many decades.
Example: some of the business strike Barbers in the Eliasberg collection were purchased from a dealer or collector who obtained them directly from the Mint. That is significant to the hobby/marketplace not just the purchaser.
When I see a post about pedigrees, I always think of the Crazyhounddog's special label and the story behind it.
His is great.
I really do not care about pedigrees nor will I pay extra for one.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
For myself having provenance on a coin has been very helpful. I am currently writing a book about my collection after 45 years of collecting and tracking the 6000+auction records of every coin in the series. I have been able to track down nearly all of the coins, sometimes to multiple previous sales. Having a provenance on a label makes it significantly easier to go back further and figure out how many coins exist of each type and therefore it has been easier to update the rarity scale.
My collection is currently being regraded and placed with a pedigree label and I am pretty dang proud that I am one coin away from finishing a certified set that no one else has come close to doing so. So it is a big deal to me on multiple fronts
Visit USPatterns.com
Here's another one that was just posted into the New Purchases thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/13103605/#Comment_13103605
The insert says H. Weinberger Collection. I didn't know who Weinberger was so I looked him up and he's very well known in his area! So, definitely worth adding in my opinion.
http://www.spaceflownartifacts.com/flown_moon_money_tokens.html
I like if for long time collections. Not so much when the coin passes through their hands for a pit stop.
I think the coin comes first but knowing the provenance is kinda cool especially if it’s from a well know collection. It adds a dimension of history and traceability. Whether it’s on the label holder, I personally don’t care but many others do and it will potentially add value. So - I try to get pedigrees added plain and simple.
Great to find one of your coins in an old auction catalog.
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As you wish . . . . .
Zoid's got a bit of everything . . . . . . .
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Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!
Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?
Any provenance really worth noting does not need to be on the tag as it would be obvious as such coins are well studied and documented. Even an average Eliasberg coin is not particularly special. Ultrararities are another story and their stories are well known. AFAIAC, the pedigree relevant to a coin I have is that of myself and having vanity tags is not for me.
Are you talking about this kind of nonsense?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067015/how-is-this-possible-2021-w-1-burnished-silver-eagle-type-2-emily-s-damstra-600-of-600-69-graded#latest
To bad this wouldn't fit on mine
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
Provenance or "chain of ownership" can be important to folks looking to avoid counterfeits in the current marketplace.
They can also be misleading if an error is made
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i buy coins cause they got my notice not cause of who owned them before me
Check out my coins for sale at the link below mid-priced (read carefully)
** https://photos.app.goo.gl/VLi1NBeJuE7UTkCE7**
I do too, but that doesn't mean it's still not nice to know who owned them before.
Very good point. This seems especially important for older, lower grade coins.
I consider the term Provenance is more correct here and I also believe there are two types:
--- a Provenance to History which shows the previous owners of important or notable coins which I believe is important to the Hobby. examples are those such as Norweb, Ford, Garrett, etc. but I don't believe it's important to note every coin they've owned solely because they were the owner.
--- a Provenance which tends to be ego based and is given either as an award or for a fee. examples might be Registry Set coins from yearly winners in each category, various "hoards" such as Binion with numerous ordinary coins and large submissions which receive a Provenance for no other reason than being submitted.
I am currently working on a book trying to track all of the coins that I collect and update rarity scale. Provenance on a coin certainly makes it much more simple to track versus trying to determine which coin is which from old crappy auction catalogs pictures. From an egotistical standpoint, I recently got my collection pedigreed because I am pretty damn proud that I managed to put together the most complete set ever after 45 years of collecting. So in my case important on two different levels
Visit USPatterns.com
Certainly one of my most interesting ones
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But… but… that’s a light side coin!
Interesting story; sent to me as a counterfeit, I authenticated it and agreed to send it in as a bet. I won and added the coin to my collection as "ex-counterfeit, authentic S-260"!.
The crazyhounddog is a Pedigree that I would value due to the circumstances,,,,, the fire that burned his house down and everything in Paradise, CA and the fact that PCGS was able to not only salvage his collection but restored & rehodered the coins.
PCGS helped bring a good thing (giving a man back his collection) from something so terrible.
A clarification:
Labels with the pedigree "Darryl Gomez Collection" identifies a specimen that is in my research collection of President of the United States special Government medals (POTUS sGms). To date, none have been sold and I do not plan to sell my collection. This label ties the POTUS sGm to me and my research (so far published in two books). https://potus-sgm.com/
What is not divulged on the label is that many of these research specimens have an unbroken chain of ownership (provenance) from the US Mint to a Sitting President to every owner to the current owner. This information has not been currently published in a book, but I have been working on it for my third book.
Therefore, the label's pedigree ties the specimen to my research. And in several cases, an active unbroken chain of ownership, that can be continued to a future buyer of the medal.
Example of the President Eisenhower Class 1 medal given to George C. Allen (friend and neighbor). Not shown it the Bureau of the Mint provenance memo identifying these medals as being manufactured for use by President Eisenhower (yes, it does exist, you can see a redacted copy in some of the videos at my potus-sgm website). Items redacted below is for privacy.
Example of the President Kennedy Class 5 medal given to Miss Mary Gallagher (personal secretary of Mrs. Kennedy).
This is wonderful information and I'm glad to hear of your ongoing research!
The one thing I'll say is that you also have a wonderful collection of Hawaiiana and it would be great for those to have your provenance as well.
If you feel it's necessary to separate out the collections from your Presidential reference collection and your Hawaiiana collection, you could create a specific research provenance like Quentin David Bowers did. You could even add your photo if you wanted to
Like the situation with your slab provenance now, the QDB provenance often comes after a long line of other important owners that are not captured on the slab. Some of them are available from his price lists. It would be great to assemble all this available information into a reference.
I like the provenance to be known when associated with a well known collector. I like the history that it brings. I would pay extra is some cases. I don’t like the gimmicky or small time collectors adding theirs.
You've designed a very cool label !
Weed Smoking Man is my favorite token !
Never owned one, is that one yours Stef ?
Very nice Mike @Byers! I consider your provenance the top provenance for errors as you've had so many amazing coins!
Thanks for participating on the forums and sharing your wonderful coins and knowledge with us!
@Zoins
Thanks Zoins!
Your threads are a wonderful way to initiate sharing info!
This forum is a great place for information.
Here is my archive of sold mint errors:
https://mikebyers.com/rarecoins-archives.html
Thanks, Yes, I own three actually. One Levick in silver and One Levick in brass. And, the third is Hill in copper.
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
AWESOME!!!
Please start a thread with images ?
Or direct me to an existing thread, I would love to see three or two or one , Please ?
Lindy
@coinsarefun said:
here you go.....
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067149/as-requested-by-lindys-some-of-my-levick-and-hill-smoker-weed-tokens#latest
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC