Regarding PWCC this is just a minor speed bump. Collectors have a high tolerance for crooks. There are collectors that have been outright lied to by Brent about the provenance of multiple 5 figure cards…..and they still buy from him.
I try to not virtue signal much….but have zero tolerance for and will not transact with shady businesses. Wouldn’t take my car to a shop that rolls back odo’s, wouldn’t eat at a restaurant that buys black market food and sure as shit wouldn’t buy cards from a company that rolls with card doctors. To each their own but PWCC is everything thats wrong with the hobby to me.
"Obviously, shill bidding is a part of any consignor on eBay doing business. I cannot believe that people don’t realize that. This is why one should always snipe."
Some of the best shills come in the form of snipes BTW. Seen it many times and the then next month they trade avenues with PWCC to Prob. Last 3 second bids.
If EBay cared about shill bidding, they could have addressed it a long time ago. This is obviously a target on the PWCC business model and nothing else. Probstein’s auctions are like the wild wild west and flying quietly under the radar.
"When It Was a Game", Mastro, T206 autographed cards, altered cards in PSA holders, PWCC. These are the new "Good ole Days." Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
No matter what happens, the crap that collectors have had to deal with in regards to altering, shilling, and price fixing to be a part of this hobby shows how much we love cards. Truly sucks that much of this crap we deal with comes from those inside our hobby who pretend to be right there with us along our journey.
@brad31 said:
Somebody with an infrastructure in a different hobby could move into cards (no idea if they even exist)
One of the large auction houses could start a new group that lists less prominent cards on EBay. (Memory Lane used to do this).
Heritage. They already have the 36 story headquarters in Texas (where ANYTHING goes with shilling, it's all perfectly legal in Texas; the house and their associates and families can bid, the employees can bid, the consignors can bid... etc.), and their reach is global.
Of course their loan shark-like usurious vigorish for consignors and buyers would have to be seriously attenuated by a draconian degree, but if anybody has the mechanism in place to take the lead in Sports cards and related memorabilia, there's no one bigger. They auction everything. Fossils, art, comics, jewels, jewelry, you name it. If it's a high end collectible, they deal in it. Their last comic auction event realized over $100 million.
Among auction venues, they are the 800 pound gorilla in the arena.
Love this email I just got from REA, imo the most reputable of all the auction houses.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I know this is an unanswerable question, But what is happening at E-bay? A buddy of mine who sells Cards/Comics and Smut in Denver told me E-Bay quit letting Sellers sell Smut anymore! He was doing $10-$20K a year just on Smut on E-bay. And then something about Auto and OHV parts going away. Is there more business going away? I Don't have a clue how much XXX E-Bay really sold, but he tells me its a Big hit, and not just for him. And now PWCC problems! I'm sure Probsteins days are numbered!
I guess I just don't understand a Business giving up Business, Period! Whether you agree with the Business product or not! Although he heard this was dictated by Third party Money transfer Apps. Guess XXX money is dirty. I don't particularly care what one sells as long as its legal and done legally!
I hope, And Pray that somehow we are going to be witness's to E-Bay's Downfall. Please Bring it on. My stuff is moving to Myslabs although I will still do some Raw on FeeBay.
But beware that this has played out before and E-Bay Won, although the the half dozen Competitors for Cards have all gone away or are not on my Radar. Can't even remember the names, but there were several if not more than 6-10 in the last 15-20 years!
The vault concept is full on cheese. As if 24 inches of concrete is what keeps a collectable safe. Great, your cards are in a safe that is accessible by 20 low paid employees.
Check out some of the videos of PWCC employees and hanger on’s manhandling cards inside the vault.
The safest place for my cards are in my house, fully insured. I control who comes in and out and I vet the insurance policy.
The vault is a tax evasion scheme meets gimmick. I don’t believe folks truly understand risk mitigation if you believe your stuff is better held by a third party with a shady past and present.
@80sOPC said:
The vault is a tax evasion scheme meets gimmick. I don’t believe folks truly understand risk mitigation if you believe your stuff is better held by a third party.
And if they think they are immune to a massive audit, encompassing all of their sales AND hence. any inter-related reported or unreported INCOME associated with that circumvented sales tax, for them, AND all their clients; then they should think again.
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
That is the main reason. Any buyer flimflam that may occur later on concerning the payment or a return is dealt with by the consignee handling the sale for you. You are paid regardless of that outcome.
@brad31 said:
The winner in all this appears to be the company that builds vaults!
How about building a fort? Especially one with a nifty nautical Pirate theme. "The Fort" sounds just as catchy to me as "The Vault". "The Fort" also has a very secure sound to it.
I haven't read every message posted about this so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned. I wonder what PWCC is planning to do with all the cards that were listed and cancelled by eBay and the ones that were waiting to be listed in the next couple months. Will they return them to the consignors? If they do, will PWCC eat the shipping fees? What about the shipping fees that the consignors paid to ship to PWCC? I feel like PWCC should take care of those fees since the consignor paid to ship their cards with the understanding that they would be sold.
Some 3rd party grading firms collected additional revenue based on PWCC eBay sales. Will they be refunding any of those up charges? Or will they await a class-action?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
^ agreed. after shipping next day air, obtaining signature confirmation & getting took for $2k all while the scammer lost his ebay case, recanted his story, did a bank dispute and ebay left me holding the bag w losing my card, paying to have it shipped/stolen and the reimbursing the guy w the money sucked outta my account, i was pretty much done w ebay on a day to day basis. zero way that woulda happened w any of the bigger consignors. yes these consignors are crooked, but ebay as a whole is one of the biggest scammers out there. “ebay sellers protection” my arse. best part is all this took just a tad over 6 months. just enough time to where i couldnt even get my $220 in ftv reimbursed, per ebay policy time limits to request so. yoke.
eBay sales will fall off substantially after the first of next year since sellers will have to start paying taxes on yearly sales of $600 instead of the $20,000 it is now.
@jfkheat said:
I haven't read every message posted about this so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned. I wonder what PWCC is planning to do with all the cards that were listed and cancelled by eBay and the ones that were waiting to be listed in the next couple months. Will they return them to the consignors? If they do, will PWCC eat the shipping fees? What about the shipping fees that the consignors paid to ship to PWCC? I feel like PWCC should take care of those fees since the consignor paid to ship their cards with the understanding that they would be sold.
@jfkheat said:
I wonder what PWCC is planning to do with all the cards that were listed and cancelled by eBay and the ones that were waiting to be listed in the next couple months. Will they return them to the consignors? If they do, will PWCC eat the shipping fees? What about the shipping fees that the consignors paid to ship to PWCC? I feel like PWCC should take care of those fees since the consignor paid to ship their cards with the understanding that they would be sold.
James
Read the PWCC Marketplace/ebay Update at the following link:
And if they think they are immune to a massive audit, encompassing all of their sales AND hence. any inter-related reported or unreported INCOME associated with that circumvented sales tax, for them, AND all their clients; then they should think again.
eBay sales will fall off substantially after the first of next year since sellers will have to start paying taxes on yearly sales of $600 instead of the $20,000 it is now.
By US law, US based sellers were required have been reporting the sales (INCOME) above 600 per year themselves. if they were not they were committing felony's. Those who support criminal actions I'm sure are upset I for one say the IRS if anything was not too smart in doing something now they could have done 20 year ago.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
By US law, US based sellers were required have been reporting the sales (INCOME) above 600 per year themselves. if they were not they were committing felony's. Those who support criminal actions I'm sure are upset I for one say the IRS if anything was not too smart in doing something now they could have done 20 year ago.
I agree with this but we all know that the majority of people that sell on eBay do not pay taxes on the sales.
Thank you, I hadn't seen that. I don't know that I would want to take a chance with my cards being listed in the first few auctions on PWCC's own platform. I don't think it will get anywhere near the traffic or bids that PWCC got with eBay. I haven't seen the fee structure for the new platform but if they charge fees like most of the big auction houses at 20% or more the final bids will be lower than with eBay
hearing reports that bank wires and achs werent received today. now if that didnt happen, that kinda changes a lot. no need to bring up “ifs” at this moment.
@blurryface said:
hearing reports that bank wires and achs werent received today. now if that didnt happen, that kinda changes a lot. no need to bring up “ifs” at this moment.
I have a friend who is attempting to get some settled funds out today.
I will keep you posted…
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
But you also have to consider if the owner of said consignor is as crooked as (or more than) the crooked customer you're worried about. I believe Brent was a decent guy once, but greed got him... as it does many. Even consigned with him when he was expanding beyond post war... but it was all downhill after that.
I totally get your point, but it only relates to a handful of consignors that are worth your trust. The opposite of Brent, IMHO, is Steve Hart. I'd pay Steve twice as much for a pack/card as I would ever pay Brent... and have a smile on my face to show. Let's not forget PWCC was called out for stuff (with pretty damning evidence) far beyond shill bidding.
By US law, US based sellers were required have been reporting the sales (INCOME) above 600 per year themselves. if they were not they were committing felony's. Those who support criminal actions I'm sure are upset I for one say the IRS if anything was not too smart in doing something now they could have done 20 year ago.
I agree with this but we all know that the majority of people that sell on eBay do not pay taxes on the sales.
But the sales tax collection is done automatically. A seller or buyer does not have the ability to override, remove, or alter the amount of sales tax automatically configured on the invoice, the amount depending upon if the buyer's shipping address is registered in a state where sales tax is collected or not and at what %.
So there's no finagling the sales tax other than to circumvent it by using a shipping address where sales tax is not collected.
That said, if a state decides to do an audit of buyer or seller, or both, INCOME may wind up being tied to the audit and given it's own investigation into numbers that just don't jive!
A sales tax audit can lead to an income tax investigation opening up far more than the initial one can of worms.
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
But you also have to consider if the owner of said consignor is as crooked as (or more than) the crooked customer you're worried about. I believe Brent was a decent guy once, but greed got him... as it does many. Even consigned with him when he was expanding beyond post war... but it was all downhill after that.
I totally get your point, but it only relates to a handful of consignors that are worth your trust. The opposite of Brent, IMHO, is Steve Hart. I'd pay Steve twice as much for a pack/card as I would ever pay Brent... and have a smile on my face to show. Let's not forget PWCC was called out for stuff (with pretty damning evidence) far beyond shill bidding.
Yeah I get the irony. Brett is a crooked dog but as a consignor he was my crooked dog. Let's all be real here, there aren't many big fish like Steve in our hobby.
But the sales tax collection is done automatically. A seller or buyer does not have the ability to override, remove, or alter the amount of sales tax automatically configured on the invoice, the amount depending upon if the buyer's shipping address is registered in a state where sales tax is collected or not and at what %.
I don’t think he’s talking about the Sales Tax. It’s more about the seller paying income (gains) tax on their sales…
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
But you also have to consider if the owner of said consignor is as crooked as (or more than) the crooked customer you're worried about. I believe Brent was a decent guy once, but greed got him... as it does many. Even consigned with him when he was expanding beyond post war... but it was all downhill after that.
I totally get your point, but it only relates to a handful of consignors that are worth your trust. The opposite of Brent, IMHO, is Steve Hart. I'd pay Steve twice as much for a pack/card as I would ever pay Brent... and have a smile on my face to show. Let's not forget PWCC was called out for stuff (with pretty damning evidence) far beyond shill bidding.
Yeah I get the irony. Brett is a crooked dog but as a consignor he was my crooked dog. Let's all be real here, there aren't many big fish like Steve in our hobby.
There are a lot of reputable auction houses out there like REA or Collect Auctions for consigning better items, options that routinely outperform PWCC at least in the vintage unopened category. .
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
But you also have to consider if the owner of said consignor is as crooked as (or more than) the crooked customer you're worried about. I believe Brent was a decent guy once, but greed got him... as it does many. Even consigned with him when he was expanding beyond post war... but it was all downhill after that.
I totally get your point, but it only relates to a handful of consignors that are worth your trust. The opposite of Brent, IMHO, is Steve Hart. I'd pay Steve twice as much for a pack/card as I would ever pay Brent... and have a smile on my face to show. Let's not forget PWCC was called out for stuff (with pretty damning evidence) far beyond shill bidding.
Yeah I get the irony. Brett is a crooked dog but as a consignor he was my crooked dog. Let's all be real here, there aren't many big fish like Steve in our hobby.
There are a lot of reputable auction houses out there like REA or Collect Auctions for consigning better items, options that routinely outperform PWCC at least in the vintage unopened category. .
Haven't dealt with REA, I had several large deals with Collect Auctions and those guys are solid. For graded cards, PWCC was the best overall deal for me. I'm not sure if I am going to use them now that they are not on ebay, the eyeballs the listing drew were part of the hype premium.
@brad31 said:
Wonder if PWCC will have to temporarily suspend returning owners’ cards from their vault due to a tsunami of requests to remove collectors, err investors cards (no make that assets) from a sinking ship.
PWCC if you read between the lines, doesn't exclude people "associated with them" from doing this shill bidding, just "employees". Easy easy many many ways to set this up, pay under the table or service credit to trusted 3rd parties. EBay likely has evidence if such, as if they didn't, they would be sued into oblivion. PWCC knows it is caught and is lawyering up and that legally plausibly denial letter is just the start....the deflects from the subject.
I have been talking about the hidden risk of vaulting your cards w someone. What happens when there is a crime? Theft, fraud etc? Those cards could become a crime scene and frozen or worse, evidence and seized....and the legal process plays out over years. Same story with bankruptcy of PWCC, or they get their ass in a Crack and need funds...and creditors show up and freeze and seize assets, records etc... DOESNT SEEM SO FARFETCHED NOW, HUH?. PWCC is going to crater in revenue and a lot of their vaulting will have Redemption requests. ..it's got a chance to look like a bank run where the doors close right after they say everything is ok....maybe they open back up, maybe not....No Way I would be vaulting cards with anyone.
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
I think it is the overall trend you are going to see with eBay a continual down arrow on sales trends in what was once a category they dominated. I am not an eBay expert but I do know that their policies have alienated many sellers so that sites like Myslabs have gained more and more popularity. When you see major losses like this it will be noticed.
I think EBay sees it has made a ton more in this sector than they expected (and felt they could.eat that hit in the short term), and felt they could nuke a competitor before their own marketplace got moving. That and get out in front of the continued Fed scrutiny across the hobby spectrum with a few brownie PR points
@fergie23 said:
craig44,
Why would you be worried about the PWCC vault? With Goldin offering a vault service as well, I see this space growing.
I think this is eBay punishing PWCC for starting their own auction service. If Probstein's auctions stay up, then we know this has nothing to actually do with shill bidding.
Robb
I also wonder if this may be the first domino of the FBI investigation to drop. if that is so, all "assets" could be impounded for a very long time.
FBI Priorities:
Protect against terrorist attacks
Investigate shill bidding on Ebay / PWCC
Impose consequences on cyber adversaries
As someone whose business intersects w the FBI every couple years, let me add a Zeroeth Law-
0-Protect your political positioning inside the Beltway by doing dirty tricks for favors.
This refers to the leadership. The field agents generally are great. Retired ones are hit and miss on competency for use in the private sector TBH.
I spent a week in a hotel room reading half a million emails w a crusty ex DC agent turned mid/high admin...let me tell you I heard a LOT of verrrrrry iiiiiiinteresting stuff.
By US law, US based sellers were required have been reporting the sales (INCOME) above 600 per year themselves. if they were not they were committing felony's. Those who support criminal actions I'm sure are upset I for one say the IRS if anything was not too smart in doing something now they could have done 20 year ago.
I believe all income, even if you have less than $600 is supposed to be declared as income.
@galaxy27 said:
wish i could take credit for this analogous post, but i saw it on another forum and found it to be apropos
pwcc told ebay they found someone hotter, then ebay keyed pwcc's car
Hey I have had my car keyed twice, and had a jewelry box thrown off my head. My ex actually got so mad back in the day that she walked outside and keyed my Infiniti and came back in a told me so.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
For when an item gets to be too high of value than a seller wants to trust moving himself, what are the good reasonable trusted options for consigning a six figure item with a buy-it-now-or-best-offer rather than auctions, aside from PWCC vault, Probstein or COMC?
@ndleo said:
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
For when an item gets to be too high of value than a seller wants to trust moving himself, what are the good reasonable trusted options for consigning a six figure item with a buy-it-now-or-best-offer rather than auctions, aside from PWCC vault, Probstein or COMC?
I would think you could contact Heritage Auctions , Robert Edwards Auctions or Love of the Game Auctions and ask them to help negotiate a private sale or obviously run the item in their auction.
All have been around a while and get strong prices: Brian Dwyer (REA) and Al Crisafulli (LOTG) have incredibly good reputations in this hobby - which we all know is not always easy to pull off.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
By US law, US based sellers were required have been reporting the sales (INCOME) above 600 per year themselves. if they were not they were committing felony's. Those who support criminal actions I'm sure are upset I for one say the IRS if anything was not too smart in doing something now they could have done 20 year ago.
I agree with this but we all know that the majority of people that sell on eBay do not pay taxes on the sales.
IMHO that is a gray area anyway. Why are we paying taxes on used goods anyway?? Something about that whole "double taxation" thing just rubs me the wrong way. Technically, we will always pay taxes on things to infinity if the government had their way.
LOTS of comments here full of speculation and opinions from people who have most likely never used PWCC.
I cashed out when this news came out and my money is in my bank account this morning with no problem. I still have 6 figures worth of inventory in my PWCC Vault and I'm not worried about it at all.
Ebay is just bitter about PWCC's Premier Auction. Nothing more. It will be interesting to watch the legal action brought against them.
The one thing that raised my eyebrows in this thread is that many actually keep their valuable collectibles in a vault that they have no physical real world access to at a moments notice. YIKES.
Comments
Regarding PWCC this is just a minor speed bump. Collectors have a high tolerance for crooks. There are collectors that have been outright lied to by Brent about the provenance of multiple 5 figure cards…..and they still buy from him.
I try to not virtue signal much….but have zero tolerance for and will not transact with shady businesses. Wouldn’t take my car to a shop that rolls back odo’s, wouldn’t eat at a restaurant that buys black market food and sure as shit wouldn’t buy cards from a company that rolls with card doctors. To each their own but PWCC is everything thats wrong with the hobby to me.
"Obviously, shill bidding is a part of any consignor on eBay doing business. I cannot believe that people don’t realize that. This is why one should always snipe."
Some of the best shills come in the form of snipes BTW. Seen it many times and the then next month they trade avenues with PWCC to Prob. Last 3 second bids.
If EBay cared about shill bidding, they could have addressed it a long time ago. This is obviously a target on the PWCC business model and nothing else. Probstein’s auctions are like the wild wild west and flying quietly under the radar.
"When It Was a Game", Mastro, T206 autographed cards, altered cards in PSA holders, PWCC. These are the new "Good ole Days." Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
wish i could take credit for this analogous post, but i saw it on another forum and found it to be apropos
pwcc told ebay they found someone hotter, then ebay keyed pwcc's car
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
>
quoted, agreed, liked, lol’d and flagged for not coming up w that myself. its perfect!
No matter what happens, the crap that collectors have had to deal with in regards to altering, shilling, and price fixing to be a part of this hobby shows how much we love cards. Truly sucks that much of this crap we deal with comes from those inside our hobby who pretend to be right there with us along our journey.
Heritage. They already have the 36 story headquarters in Texas (where ANYTHING goes with shilling, it's all perfectly legal in Texas; the house and their associates and families can bid, the employees can bid, the consignors can bid... etc.), and their reach is global.
Of course their loan shark-like usurious vigorish for consignors and buyers would have to be seriously attenuated by a draconian degree, but if anybody has the mechanism in place to take the lead in Sports cards and related memorabilia, there's no one bigger. They auction everything. Fossils, art, comics, jewels, jewelry, you name it. If it's a high end collectible, they deal in it. Their last comic auction event realized over $100 million.
Among auction venues, they are the 800 pound gorilla in the arena.
but 800lbs gorillas dont want side salads.
Love this email I just got from REA, imo the most reputable of all the auction houses.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Afternoon,
I know this is an unanswerable question, But what is happening at E-bay? A buddy of mine who sells Cards/Comics and Smut in Denver told me E-Bay quit letting Sellers sell Smut anymore! He was doing $10-$20K a year just on Smut on E-bay. And then something about Auto and OHV parts going away. Is there more business going away? I Don't have a clue how much XXX E-Bay really sold, but he tells me its a Big hit, and not just for him. And now PWCC problems! I'm sure Probsteins days are numbered!
I guess I just don't understand a Business giving up Business, Period! Whether you agree with the Business product or not! Although he heard this was dictated by Third party Money transfer Apps. Guess XXX money is dirty. I don't particularly care what one sells as long as its legal and done legally!
I hope, And Pray that somehow we are going to be witness's to E-Bay's Downfall. Please Bring it on. My stuff is moving to Myslabs although I will still do some Raw on FeeBay.
But beware that this has played out before and E-Bay Won, although the the half dozen Competitors for Cards have all gone away or are not on my Radar. Can't even remember the names, but there were several if not more than 6-10 in the last 15-20 years!
Thanks
YeeHaH! Neil
The winner in all this appears to be the company that builds vaults!
just went and looked at an old bank today for s’s & g’s. 😉
who knows.
The vault concept is full on cheese. As if 24 inches of concrete is what keeps a collectable safe. Great, your cards are in a safe that is accessible by 20 low paid employees.
Check out some of the videos of PWCC employees and hanger on’s manhandling cards inside the vault.
The safest place for my cards are in my house, fully insured. I control who comes in and out and I vet the insurance policy.
The vault is a tax evasion scheme meets gimmick. I don’t believe folks truly understand risk mitigation if you believe your stuff is better held by a third party with a shady past and present.
This!
And if they think they are immune to a massive audit, encompassing all of their sales AND hence. any inter-related reported or unreported INCOME associated with that circumvented sales tax, for them, AND all their clients; then they should think again.
For me the appeal of using a consignor like PWCC is protection from crooked buyers when selling high dollar cards. They have a chance to fight back while peons like me are toast.
That is the main reason. Any buyer flimflam that may occur later on concerning the payment or a return is dealt with by the consignee handling the sale for you. You are paid regardless of that outcome.
How about building a fort? Especially one with a nifty nautical Pirate theme. "The Fort" sounds just as catchy to me as "The Vault". "The Fort" also has a very secure sound to it.
I haven't read every message posted about this so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned. I wonder what PWCC is planning to do with all the cards that were listed and cancelled by eBay and the ones that were waiting to be listed in the next couple months. Will they return them to the consignors? If they do, will PWCC eat the shipping fees? What about the shipping fees that the consignors paid to ship to PWCC? I feel like PWCC should take care of those fees since the consignor paid to ship their cards with the understanding that they would be sold.
James
Some 3rd party grading firms collected additional revenue based on PWCC eBay sales. Will they be refunding any of those up charges? Or will they await a class-action?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
^ agreed. after shipping next day air, obtaining signature confirmation & getting took for $2k all while the scammer lost his ebay case, recanted his story, did a bank dispute and ebay left me holding the bag w losing my card, paying to have it shipped/stolen and the reimbursing the guy w the money sucked outta my account, i was pretty much done w ebay on a day to day basis. zero way that woulda happened w any of the bigger consignors. yes these consignors are crooked, but ebay as a whole is one of the biggest scammers out there. “ebay sellers protection” my arse. best part is all this took just a tad over 6 months. just enough time to where i couldnt even get my $220 in ftv reimbursed, per ebay policy time limits to request so. yoke.
eBay sales will fall off substantially after the first of next year since sellers will have to start paying taxes on yearly sales of $600 instead of the $20,000 it is now.
^ yep. probably another reason pwcc was heading for the door.
Here ya go:
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/faq#pwcc-ebay-update
Read the PWCC Marketplace/ebay Update at the following link:
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/faq#pwcc-ebay-update
Steve
They may now > @jfkheat said:
By US law, US based sellers were required have been reporting the sales (INCOME) above 600 per year themselves. if they were not they were committing felony's. Those who support criminal actions I'm sure are upset I for one say the IRS if anything was not too smart in doing something now they could have done 20 year ago.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
I agree with this but we all know that the majority of people that sell on eBay do not pay taxes on the sales.
Thank you, I hadn't seen that. I don't know that I would want to take a chance with my cards being listed in the first few auctions on PWCC's own platform. I don't think it will get anywhere near the traffic or bids that PWCC got with eBay. I haven't seen the fee structure for the new platform but if they charge fees like most of the big auction houses at 20% or more the final bids will be lower than with eBay
hearing reports that bank wires and achs werent received today. now if that didnt happen, that kinda changes a lot. no need to bring up “ifs” at this moment.
I picked a bad time to send in a batch for the September auction. Will be interesting to see how it plays out!
I have a friend who is attempting to get some settled funds out today.
I will keep you posted…
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
But you also have to consider if the owner of said consignor is as crooked as (or more than) the crooked customer you're worried about. I believe Brent was a decent guy once, but greed got him... as it does many. Even consigned with him when he was expanding beyond post war... but it was all downhill after that.
I totally get your point, but it only relates to a handful of consignors that are worth your trust. The opposite of Brent, IMHO, is Steve Hart. I'd pay Steve twice as much for a pack/card as I would ever pay Brent... and have a smile on my face to show. Let's not forget PWCC was called out for stuff (with pretty damning evidence) far beyond shill bidding.
But the sales tax collection is done automatically. A seller or buyer does not have the ability to override, remove, or alter the amount of sales tax automatically configured on the invoice, the amount depending upon if the buyer's shipping address is registered in a state where sales tax is collected or not and at what %.
So there's no finagling the sales tax other than to circumvent it by using a shipping address where sales tax is not collected.
That said, if a state decides to do an audit of buyer or seller, or both, INCOME may wind up being tied to the audit and given it's own investigation into numbers that just don't jive!
A sales tax audit can lead to an income tax investigation opening up far more than the initial one can of worms.
Yeah I get the irony. Brett is a crooked dog but as a consignor he was my crooked dog. Let's all be real here, there aren't many big fish like Steve in our hobby.
I don’t think he’s talking about the Sales Tax. It’s more about the seller paying income (gains) tax on their sales…
There are a lot of reputable auction houses out there like REA or Collect Auctions for consigning better items, options that routinely outperform PWCC at least in the vintage unopened category. .
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Haven't dealt with REA, I had several large deals with Collect Auctions and those guys are solid. For graded cards, PWCC was the best overall deal for me. I'm not sure if I am going to use them now that they are not on ebay, the eyeballs the listing drew were part of the hype premium.
PWCC if you read between the lines, doesn't exclude people "associated with them" from doing this shill bidding, just "employees". Easy easy many many ways to set this up, pay under the table or service credit to trusted 3rd parties. EBay likely has evidence if such, as if they didn't, they would be sued into oblivion. PWCC knows it is caught and is lawyering up and that legally plausibly denial letter is just the start....the deflects from the subject.
I have been talking about the hidden risk of vaulting your cards w someone. What happens when there is a crime? Theft, fraud etc? Those cards could become a crime scene and frozen or worse, evidence and seized....and the legal process plays out over years. Same story with bankruptcy of PWCC, or they get their ass in a Crack and need funds...and creditors show up and freeze and seize assets, records etc... DOESNT SEEM SO FARFETCHED NOW, HUH?. PWCC is going to crater in revenue and a lot of their vaulting will have Redemption requests. ..it's got a chance to look like a bank run where the doors close right after they say everything is ok....maybe they open back up, maybe not....No Way I would be vaulting cards with anyone.
I think EBay sees it has made a ton more in this sector than they expected (and felt they could.eat that hit in the short term), and felt they could nuke a competitor before their own marketplace got moving. That and get out in front of the continued Fed scrutiny across the hobby spectrum with a few brownie PR points
As someone whose business intersects w the FBI every couple years, let me add a Zeroeth Law-
0-Protect your political positioning inside the Beltway by doing dirty tricks for favors.
This refers to the leadership. The field agents generally are great. Retired ones are hit and miss on competency for use in the private sector TBH.
I spent a week in a hotel room reading half a million emails w a crusty ex DC agent turned mid/high admin...let me tell you I heard a LOT of verrrrrry iiiiiiinteresting stuff.
I believe all income, even if you have less than $600 is supposed to be declared as income.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Hey I have had my car keyed twice, and had a jewelry box thrown off my head. My ex actually got so mad back in the day that she walked outside and keyed my Infiniti and came back in a told me so.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Let's try to steer this back towards the main subject. No harm done yet and let's please keep it that way. Thank you!
For when an item gets to be too high of value than a seller wants to trust moving himself, what are the good reasonable trusted options for consigning a six figure item with a buy-it-now-or-best-offer rather than auctions, aside from PWCC vault, Probstein or COMC?
I would think you could contact Heritage Auctions , Robert Edwards Auctions or Love of the Game Auctions and ask them to help negotiate a private sale or obviously run the item in their auction.
All have been around a while and get strong prices: Brian Dwyer (REA) and Al Crisafulli (LOTG) have incredibly good reputations in this hobby - which we all know is not always easy to pull off.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
IMHO that is a gray area anyway. Why are we paying taxes on used goods anyway?? Something about that whole "double taxation" thing just rubs me the wrong way. Technically, we will always pay taxes on things to infinity if the government had their way.
LOTS of comments here full of speculation and opinions from people who have most likely never used PWCC.
I cashed out when this news came out and my money is in my bank account this morning with no problem. I still have 6 figures worth of inventory in my PWCC Vault and I'm not worried about it at all.
Ebay is just bitter about PWCC's Premier Auction. Nothing more. It will be interesting to watch the legal action brought against them.
Darn, I just read all of this and I need a shower. PWCC has done nothing wrong and should be given the medal of freedom. LOL.
The one thing that raised my eyebrows in this thread is that many actually keep their valuable collectibles in a vault that they have no physical real world access to at a moments notice. YIKES.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240