Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
“ While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on.”
fee fight. pretty much all this is just wrapped w a different bow. we are talking ebay here. and if they are so adamant about auction integrity they woulda did it right and nixed several different entities. again, in no way shape or form do i think pwcc is clean here. its the pot vs the kettle.
i do wonder if goldins interests, ownership and new vault had any input or sway on this though. that is something i could see certain interests helping lobby for.
the enemy of my enemy is my friend type stuff. who knows though? there certainly seems to be strong interests in a couple different investment groups gobbling up anything and everything collectible & hobby related. and once those interests are gobbled up and their arsenals secure, knocking out competitors only seems like the next logical step. sun tzu 101. just rambling out loud…
I didn't get the PWCC email yet, but I did get one from Goldin Auctions offering Free Vault for Life on any submissions in 2021. Timing is everything...
Wonder if PWCC will have to temporarily suspend returning owners’ cards from their vault due to a tsunami of requests to remove collectors, err investors cards (no make that assets) from a sinking ship.
@daltex said:
I doubt PWCC employees ever shilled. However, PWCC consigners are also affiliated with the company.
You never know. Prior cases of systematic shill bidding typically involved employees as well as consignors.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@daltex said:
I doubt PWCC employees ever shilled. However, PWCC consigners are also affiliated with the company.
I would be slightly surprised if any actual PWCC employees shilled. But I am pretty much certain that PWCC ignored shilling on their auctions if they didn't outright assist with it.
The key question going forward will be: How does this affect the prices of cards in the market if one of the largest sellers is pulled off off ebay?
Does everyone start selling their own cards?
Does all the volume move to PWCC's competitors?
Does some of the volume move to traditional auctioneers like Memory Lane, etc.?
Will consignors participate in PWCC's new platform?
Or do sellers just hold their cards because they are not comfortable with any of the above options?
Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all "right-thinking" people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
@OckhamsRazor said:
The key question going forward will be: How does this affect the prices of cards in the market if one of the largest sellers is pulled off off ebay?
Does everyone start selling their own cards?
Does all the volume move to PWCC's competitors?
Does some of the volume move to traditional auctioneers like Memory Lane, etc.?
Will consignors participate in PWCC's new platform?
Or do sellers just hold their cards because they are not comfortable with any of the above options?
the timing of this is perfect for every other auction house. with the new tax law going into effect of anything of $600 or more as now being required to file, any and every existing auction house will flourish. (please keep it non-political guys). with the removal, at least temporarily, the main consignment house on ebay and heading into the final quarter will push all those cards to other places by natural selection. i can assure you though, you will see sellers list things outta sheer panic for the next few months, but i see several different consignment houses absolutely licking their chops w/ excitement in what 2022 will ultimately bring. especially now that the biggest ebay consignor was forced to take a chris webber timeout.
I expect the market is vast enough to absorb whatever void PWCC leaves. There are a number of very reputable auction houses out there in addition to ebay. However, I expect PWCC will also do quite well with their own platform once they launch it. Many auction houses are running auctions on a monthly basis these days, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@erikthredd said:
Now Goldin is swooping in with a Lifetime free Vault use offer that expires on 12/31/2021.
calculated much? 😉. and i have no problem with any of this. its business. thats all and thats it. i love a good fight!
not many know this but goldin was offering free beta testing of the vault services to bigger fish the past couple months.
From what I heard from those bigger fish that tried out the free beta testing, it included bi-hourly wipedowns,twice a day proof of life pics by email and for those really really big fish they could sign onto the GoldinVaultStream where they could watch their cards sitting around like they were in the Big Brother House. One tuna even mentioned the time that his PSA graded Kurt Warner card spent a week laying around in the pool.
@erikthredd said:
Now Goldin is swooping in with a Lifetime free Vault use offer that expires on 12/31/2021.
calculated much? 😉. and i have no problem with any of this. its business. thats all and thats it. i love a good fight!
not many know this but goldin was offering free beta testing of the vault services to bigger fish the past couple months.
From what I heard from those bigger fish that tried out the free beta testing, it included bi-hourly wipedowns,twice a day proof of life pics by email and for those really really big fish they could sign onto the GoldinVaultStream where they could watch their cards sitting around like they were in the Big Brother House. One tuna even mentioned the time that his PSA graded Kurt Warner card spent a week laying around in the pool.
ya paid a lot more attention to the spiel than i did! 😉
@daltex said:
I doubt PWCC employees ever shilled. However, PWCC consigners are also affiliated with the company.
thats what I assumed they meant as well. they never stated it was employees of PWCC, however affiliates like consignors are the ones they were targeting by this email.
craig44,
Why would you be worried about the PWCC vault? With Goldin offering a vault service as well, I see this space growing.
I think this is eBay punishing PWCC for starting their own auction service. If Probstein's auctions stay up, then we know this has nothing to actually do with shill bidding.
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
“PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review” = Betsy drafts and sends a few emails and Brent loiters in the background at the next National.
@fergie23 said:
craig44,
Why would you be worried about the PWCC vault? With Goldin offering a vault service as well, I see this space growing.
I think this is eBay punishing PWCC for starting their own auction service. If Probstein's auctions stay up, then we know this has nothing to actually do with shill bidding.
Robb
do you not know PWCCs history of terrible business practice? if not, just do a little research. a very morally corrupt company. i would not trust any "asset" of mine to be under a person like brents watch.
I also wonder if this may be the first domino of the FBI investigation to drop. if that is so, all "assets" could be impounded for a very long time.
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
I think it is the overall trend you are going to see with eBay a continual down arrow on sales trends in what was once a category they dominated. I am not an eBay expert but I do know that their policies have alienated many sellers so that sites like Myslabs have gained more and more popularity. When you see major losses like this it will be noticed.
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
This is correct. PWCC needed ebay a lot more than ebay needed PWCC. And they get far less than 10% in fees, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
this reminds me of the capn america lines…”cut the head off a snake and two more pop up. hail hydra”. and its ironically funny bc its basically true.
@Tabe said:
Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
yes. thats the thing about those snowballs rolling down hill. they start really, really small. then they get really, really big very, very fast. plus, 15 million will always be missed. david went down. blockbuster went down, lucent mci went down. ebays days are numbered one way or another. it wont be pwcc that brings them down, rather their own ego , reluctance to adapt and mainly for their downright outlandishly stupid changes they make that only push the platform backwards vs into the future. heck, their app has been dated since the day it came out.
everybody thought the first guy in one of titanic’s lifeboats was a nut too. until they didnt. then it was a mass exodus. 😉
craig44,
So nothing new. The FBI doesn't divulge information about ongoing investigations to companies like eBay so that line of reasoning seems highly suspect.
@Tabe said:
Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
yes. thats the thing about those snowballs rolling down hill. they start really, really small. then they get really, really big very, very fast. plus, 15 million will always be missed. david went down. blockbuster went down, lucent mci went down. ebays days are numbered one way or another. it wont be pwcc that brings them down, rather their own ego , reluctance to adapt and mainly for their downright outlandishly stupid changes they make that only push the platform backwards vs into the future. heck, their app has been dated since the day it came out.
This is basically what I am getting at. They are losing ground in so many other categories besides cards. I am in automotive and Amazon and Rock Auto are killing eBay which once had a large share with eBay motors that continues to diminish.
@robert67 said:
Some other boards I have been reading are suggesting that Brent and company could be a competitor for Ebay, but I have another theory:
It’s possible that PWCC won’t be all that upset to become essentially a “so called” high end auction house.
Higher profit potential, bigger PR/media coverage and less slabs to deal with.
And, with the vault in place, seems easier for the high rollers all the way around.
I may be wrong but it wouldn’t be the first time😂
I expect them to attempt to reinvent themselves in that fashion, also~ with a lot less oversight, it's probably pretty appealing, I'm sure.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
This is correct. PWCC needed ebay a lot more than ebay needed PWCC. And they get far less than 10% in fees, too.
I'd have to agree with the "less than 10%" on a whole, probably somewhere between 8 to 10% dependent on how many cards sell for more than $2500.
While it's true that ebay fees AVERAGE about 12% and change due to their now managing seller's payments versus the 9 to 10% when paypal handled the payments, at a seller cost of about 3%, ebay has a final value fee cap, a limit to the amount that can be charged. For instance, the fees might cost the same amount whether the item sells for $2500 or $250,000, with the fee cap in place, and there are some times that ebay incentivizes high ticket sales by lowering the fees and/or reduction of the fee cap even further..
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
This is correct. PWCC needed ebay a lot more than ebay needed PWCC. And they get far less than 10% in fees, too.
I'd have to agree with the "less than 10%" on a whole, probably somewhere between 8 to 10% dependent on how many cards sell for more than $2500.
While it's true that ebay fees AVERAGE about 12% and change due to their now managing seller's payments versus the 9 to 10% when paypal handled the payments, at a seller cost of about 3%, ebay has a final value fee cap, a limit to the amount that can be charged. For instance, the fees might cost the same amount whether the item sells for $2500 or $250,000, with the fee cap in place, and there are some times that ebay incentivizes high ticket sales by lowering the fees and/or reduction of the fee cap even further..
Way less than 8-10%. If you look at what they pay their consignors on higher end items, there's no way they'd be making any money if they paid anywhere near that percentage.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@robert67 said:
Some other boards I have been reading are suggesting that Brent and company could be a competitor for Ebay, but I have another theory:
It’s possible that PWCC won’t be all that upset to become essentially a “so called” high end auction house.
Higher profit potential, bigger PR/media coverage and less slabs to deal with.
And, with the vault in place, seems easier for the high rollers all the way around.
I may be wrong but it wouldn’t be the first time😂
I expect them to attempt to reinvent themselves in that fashion, also~ with a lot less oversight, it's probably pretty appealing, I'm sure.
unfortunately the bottom line is the most important thing for the hobby. and by “bottom line” im not talking about pwccs bottom line. im talking the customers and consignors bottom lines. im talking more food in families mouths, more money netted for more hobby purchases, less percentages paid for and on things like shipping, taxes and fees.
with that being said and touching on the “probably pretty appealing” factor, i can definitely see pwcc branching out on their own and succeeding very easily. to most, the financial incentive to only be charged say 5-6% commission vs 12-13% on top of having purchases non taxed by submitting them directly to the vault and saving an additional 7-11% in sales tax will easily wash away their previous transgressions. everyone will say it wont, but lets get real…it most certainly will. when it comes down to individual levels, folks savings 15% and pocketing more money will be the first priority. the only bottom line is the bottom line. just being a realist here is all. its terrible with what all has been proven w pwcc. but whats more tragic is the more things change, the more they stay the same. and unfortunately there is no perfect solution. i like heritage auctions. i actually get 8% of the buyers commission. but even their fine print allows them to bid on their own auctions. i tried pcsportscards for lower tiered stuff. absolute mess both in accounting and listing services. i had to babysit everything. i used pwcc in the past. service and accounting was superb, but a ton of clout and was never happy supporting them. but before all that, i loved ebay for years. past couple have just been horrendous on every level. havent even tried goldin bc i know too many things. point is, the market is prime for someone to come in and get it right. maybe its myslabs, maybe its being formed as i type. or maybe its just plain impossible because of so many various factors and the fact that big money will always attract the nefarious types.
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
This is correct. PWCC needed ebay a lot more than ebay needed PWCC. And they get far less than 10% in fees, too.
I'd have to agree with the "less than 10%" on a whole, probably somewhere between 8 to 10% dependent on how many cards sell for more than $2500.
While it's true that ebay fees AVERAGE about 12% and change due to their now managing seller's payments versus the 9 to 10% when paypal handled the payments, at a seller cost of about 3%, ebay has a final value fee cap, a limit to the amount that can be charged. For instance, the fees might cost the same amount whether the item sells for $2500 or $250,000, with the fee cap in place, and there are some times that ebay incentivizes high ticket sales by lowering the fees and/or reduction of the fee cap even further..
Way less than 8-10%. If you look at what they pay their consignors on higher end items, there's no way they'd be making any money if they paid anywhere near that percentage.
The only thing there is that I've got to believe that they deduct the ebay fees from their consignor's payments and then base their consignment fee on that adjusted amount, for instance:
Sale price = $1000 to PWCC
Adjusted price (- ebay seller fees) = $900
PWCC's cut: $900 X 10% = $90
$900 - $90 = $810 for the consignor
Yes? No? I've never sold through PWCC so have I got this wrong?
@rexvos said:
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
This is correct. PWCC needed ebay a lot more than ebay needed PWCC. And they get far less than 10% in fees, too.
I'd have to agree with the "less than 10%" on a whole, probably somewhere between 8 to 10% dependent on how many cards sell for more than $2500.
While it's true that ebay fees AVERAGE about 12% and change due to their now managing seller's payments versus the 9 to 10% when paypal handled the payments, at a seller cost of about 3%, ebay has a final value fee cap, a limit to the amount that can be charged. For instance, the fees might cost the same amount whether the item sells for $2500 or $250,000, with the fee cap in place, and there are some times that ebay incentivizes high ticket sales by lowering the fees and/or reduction of the fee cap even further..
Way less than 8-10%. If you look at what they pay their consignors on higher end items, there's no way they'd be making any money if they paid anywhere near that percentage.
The only thing there is that I've got to believe that they deduct the ebay fees from their consignor's payments and then base their consignment fee on that adjusted amount, for instance:
Sale price = $1000 to PWCC
Adjusted price (- ebay seller fees) = $900
PWCC's cut: $900 X 10% = $90
$900 - $90 = $810 for the consignor
Yes? No? I've never sold through PWCC so have I got this wrong?
whats always been the problem with pwccs consignment rate is it was never topped off.
ebay used to have a $750 max fee. you could sell a million dollar item and only get charged $750 max for the ftv. pwcc would still charge ya 8% or whatever their lowest tier was. on $250k item, heck just a $25k level, thats some serious coin.
who knows, this could all be the result of ebay attempting to force them into managed payments and attempting to remove their capped ftv and increase the rate. all i know is that the “shilling” excuse seems to have a ton of holes in theory.
Comments
Yep just got the PWCC retort. Oh boy
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Totally legit. (The email that is)
I think my record LOLs on one post is 8. Probably going to eclipse that on something that really isn’t that funny.
“ While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on.”
fee fight. pretty much all this is just wrapped w a different bow. we are talking ebay here. and if they are so adamant about auction integrity they woulda did it right and nixed several different entities. again, in no way shape or form do i think pwcc is clean here. its the pot vs the kettle.
i do wonder if goldins interests, ownership and new vault had any input or sway on this though. that is something i could see certain interests helping lobby for.
the enemy of my enemy is my friend type stuff. who knows though? there certainly seems to be strong interests in a couple different investment groups gobbling up anything and everything collectible & hobby related. and once those interests are gobbled up and their arsenals secure, knocking out competitors only seems like the next logical step. sun tzu 101. just rambling out loud…
I didn't get the PWCC email yet, but I did get one from Goldin Auctions offering Free Vault for Life on any submissions in 2021. Timing is everything...
'We were shocked that this was going on. We were shocked someone created a fake email from Brent encouraging help with shill bidding.'
Wonder if PWCC will have to temporarily suspend returning owners’ cards from their vault due to a tsunami of requests to remove collectors, err investors cards (no make that assets) from a sinking ship.
I doubt PWCC employees ever shilled. However, PWCC consigners are also affiliated with the company.
You never know. Prior cases of systematic shill bidding typically involved employees as well as consignors.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I would be slightly surprised if any actual PWCC employees shilled. But I am pretty much certain that PWCC ignored shilling on their auctions if they didn't outright assist with it.
I've been on ebay since 2003... I could tell this was going on with them. Seen it too many times
Just wow.
The key question going forward will be: How does this affect the prices of cards in the market if one of the largest sellers is pulled off off ebay?
Does everyone start selling their own cards?
Does all the volume move to PWCC's competitors?
Does some of the volume move to traditional auctioneers like Memory Lane, etc.?
Will consignors participate in PWCC's new platform?
Or do sellers just hold their cards because they are not comfortable with any of the above options?
This is known as “bad luck.”
the timing of this is perfect for every other auction house. with the new tax law going into effect of anything of $600 or more as now being required to file, any and every existing auction house will flourish. (please keep it non-political guys). with the removal, at least temporarily, the main consignment house on ebay and heading into the final quarter will push all those cards to other places by natural selection. i can assure you though, you will see sellers list things outta sheer panic for the next few months, but i see several different consignment houses absolutely licking their chops w/ excitement in what 2022 will ultimately bring. especially now that the biggest ebay consignor was forced to take a chris webber timeout.
Now Goldin is swooping in with a Lifetime free Vault use offer that expires on 12/31/2021.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I expect the market is vast enough to absorb whatever void PWCC leaves. There are a number of very reputable auction houses out there in addition to ebay. However, I expect PWCC will also do quite well with their own platform once they launch it. Many auction houses are running auctions on a monthly basis these days, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
calculated much? 😉. and i have no problem with any of this. its business. thats all and thats it. i love a good fight!
not many know this but goldin was offering free beta testing of the vault services to bigger fish the past couple months.
Wait, so the $500 I just paid to PWCC for that Mario Mendoza card isn’t legit?
I would be very very concerned if I had any "assets" sitting in PWCCs vault.
just saying...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
From what I heard from those bigger fish that tried out the free beta testing, it included bi-hourly wipedowns,twice a day proof of life pics by email and for those really really big fish they could sign onto the GoldinVaultStream where they could watch their cards sitting around like they were in the Big Brother House. One tuna even mentioned the time that his PSA graded Kurt Warner card spent a week laying around in the pool.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Vault listings are gone…. Auctions are next I assume..
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
"Have You Ever Danced With the Devil in the Pale Moonlight?”
You want to know the truth! You can’t handle the truth!
ya paid a lot more attention to the spiel than i did! 😉
Someone contacted PWCC and they were told that all of their auctions will be taken down soon too and won’t be finished.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
thats what I assumed they meant as well. they never stated it was employees of PWCC, however affiliates like consignors are the ones they were targeting by this email.
myslabs.to/smzcards
craig44,
Why would you be worried about the PWCC vault? With Goldin offering a vault service as well, I see this space growing.
I think this is eBay punishing PWCC for starting their own auction service. If Probstein's auctions stay up, then we know this has nothing to actually do with shill bidding.
Robb
Luckily, I only have bought one item from them for under 40 bucks.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP
eBay is going to lose big on this. PWCC is a name that despite scandals will continue to get big $$$ in sales and now eBay is in the cold. eBay lost me as a seller due to ridiculous policies over a year ago and I am not going back no matter how many emails they send me, but I do not matter in the slightest to their bottom line. This will hurt bad. Really bad. They are quickly becoming my last option to buy cards and now they just lost their biggest seller of sports cards. eBay wanted to be Amazon and now they are going to be on the outside looking in on what was one their strongest categories.
“PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review” = Betsy drafts and sends a few emails and Brent loiters in the background at the next National.
do you not know PWCCs history of terrible business practice? if not, just do a little research. a very morally corrupt company. i would not trust any "asset" of mine to be under a person like brents watch.
I also wonder if this may be the first domino of the FBI investigation to drop. if that is so, all "assets" could be impounded for a very long time.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Had about 19 low level consigned items ending in the next few hours, auctions ended. Great.
How do you figure it's going to hurt "bad. Really bad." for Ebay?
Ebay has revenues of $10.2B a year. PWCC apparently does about $150m in sales on Ebay annually. Even if Ebay got the full 10% feel off of that, that's only $15m in revenue for Ebay. Or roughly 0.1% of their total revenue. You think they're going to miss that at all, let alone "really bad"?
Bye bye..
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
I think it is the overall trend you are going to see with eBay a continual down arrow on sales trends in what was once a category they dominated. I am not an eBay expert but I do know that their policies have alienated many sellers so that sites like Myslabs have gained more and more popularity. When you see major losses like this it will be noticed.
I doubt eBay takes this action and sends out that communication if they are just referring to consignees
This is correct. PWCC needed ebay a lot more than ebay needed PWCC. And they get far less than 10% in fees, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
this reminds me of the capn america lines…”cut the head off a snake and two more pop up. hail hydra”. and its ironically funny bc its basically true.
Some other boards I have been reading are suggesting that Brent and company could be a competitor for Ebay, but I have another theory:
It’s possible that PWCC won’t be all that upset to become essentially a “so called” high end auction house.
Higher profit potential, bigger PR/media coverage and less slabs to deal with.
And, with the vault in place, seems easier for the high rollers all the way around.
I may be wrong but it wouldn’t be the first time😂
yes. thats the thing about those snowballs rolling down hill. they start really, really small. then they get really, really big very, very fast. plus, 15 million will always be missed. david went down. blockbuster went down, lucent mci went down. ebays days are numbered one way or another. it wont be pwcc that brings them down, rather their own ego , reluctance to adapt and mainly for their downright outlandishly stupid changes they make that only push the platform backwards vs into the future. heck, their app has been dated since the day it came out.
everybody thought the first guy in one of titanic’s lifeboats was a nut too. until they didnt. then it was a mass exodus. 😉
craig44,
So nothing new. The FBI doesn't divulge information about ongoing investigations to companies like eBay so that line of reasoning seems highly suspect.
Will be interesting to see how things shake out.
Robb
This is basically what I am getting at. They are losing ground in so many other categories besides cards. I am in automotive and Amazon and Rock Auto are killing eBay which once had a large share with eBay motors that continues to diminish.
I expect them to attempt to reinvent themselves in that fashion, also~ with a lot less oversight, it's probably pretty appealing, I'm sure.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Or they just go to there new island.
It makes a lot of sense. I guess time will tell if it happens.
I'd have to agree with the "less than 10%" on a whole, probably somewhere between 8 to 10% dependent on how many cards sell for more than $2500.
While it's true that ebay fees AVERAGE about 12% and change due to their now managing seller's payments versus the 9 to 10% when paypal handled the payments, at a seller cost of about 3%, ebay has a final value fee cap, a limit to the amount that can be charged. For instance, the fees might cost the same amount whether the item sells for $2500 or $250,000, with the fee cap in place, and there are some times that ebay incentivizes high ticket sales by lowering the fees and/or reduction of the fee cap even further..
Way less than 8-10%. If you look at what they pay their consignors on higher end items, there's no way they'd be making any money if they paid anywhere near that percentage.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
unfortunately the bottom line is the most important thing for the hobby. and by “bottom line” im not talking about pwccs bottom line. im talking the customers and consignors bottom lines. im talking more food in families mouths, more money netted for more hobby purchases, less percentages paid for and on things like shipping, taxes and fees.
with that being said and touching on the “probably pretty appealing” factor, i can definitely see pwcc branching out on their own and succeeding very easily. to most, the financial incentive to only be charged say 5-6% commission vs 12-13% on top of having purchases non taxed by submitting them directly to the vault and saving an additional 7-11% in sales tax will easily wash away their previous transgressions. everyone will say it wont, but lets get real…it most certainly will. when it comes down to individual levels, folks savings 15% and pocketing more money will be the first priority. the only bottom line is the bottom line. just being a realist here is all. its terrible with what all has been proven w pwcc. but whats more tragic is the more things change, the more they stay the same. and unfortunately there is no perfect solution. i like heritage auctions. i actually get 8% of the buyers commission. but even their fine print allows them to bid on their own auctions. i tried pcsportscards for lower tiered stuff. absolute mess both in accounting and listing services. i had to babysit everything. i used pwcc in the past. service and accounting was superb, but a ton of clout and was never happy supporting them. but before all that, i loved ebay for years. past couple have just been horrendous on every level. havent even tried goldin bc i know too many things. point is, the market is prime for someone to come in and get it right. maybe its myslabs, maybe its being formed as i type. or maybe its just plain impossible because of so many various factors and the fact that big money will always attract the nefarious types.
The only thing there is that I've got to believe that they deduct the ebay fees from their consignor's payments and then base their consignment fee on that adjusted amount, for instance:
Sale price = $1000 to PWCC
Adjusted price (- ebay seller fees) = $900
PWCC's cut: $900 X 10% = $90
$900 - $90 = $810 for the consignor
Yes? No? I've never sold through PWCC so have I got this wrong?
Art of War. Very good!!
whats always been the problem with pwccs consignment rate is it was never topped off.
ebay used to have a $750 max fee. you could sell a million dollar item and only get charged $750 max for the ftv. pwcc would still charge ya 8% or whatever their lowest tier was. on $250k item, heck just a $25k level, thats some serious coin.
who knows, this could all be the result of ebay attempting to force them into managed payments and attempting to remove their capped ftv and increase the rate. all i know is that the “shilling” excuse seems to have a ton of holes in theory.