@JBK said:
And yet many collectors who had subscriptions got shut out.
Except that was not due to the dealers who ordered in October. That was due to Mint incompetence at the time of actual release. Don't ask me why they didn't remove the subscribers before sale.
Yes, you are correct.
I did not intend to suggest that the bulk purchasers were the issue, but rather mint incompetence, which allowed these scenarios to play out.
@JBK said:
And yet many collectors who had subscriptions got shut out.
Except that was not due to the dealers who ordered in October. That was due to Mint incompetence at the time of actual release. Don't ask me why they didn't remove the subscribers before sale.
Yes, you are correct.
I did not intend to suggest that the bulk purchasers were the issue, but rather mint incompetence, which allowed these scenarios to play out.
I don't even know how they screwed that up. Although maybe part of the reason was not having a subscriber deadline that was significantly prior to release.. If they had temporarily closed subscriptions in December or January, they would have had an accurate count as they did with the bulk dealers.
Wow so bulk dealers will have a jump on the public for the upcoming 2021 proof gold eagles as well. Most of these products have production limits under 13,000, one under 10,000.
So not a big jump to ask...was the same deal in place to a lesser extent for the 2019s ERP, the v75 ASE and will this be the way it is for the two coin set for later this summer?
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I assume the subscribers bother you also. After all, I could subscribe for 1000 coins and then I'd be getting them early also.
No, you cannot subscribe for 1,000 coins. One hundred is the limit.
100 per account.
But, still, I'd be ahead of you with 100 or more orders. The big guys were only running at around 8 or 900 each, I believe.
Subscriptions are an even playing field for everyone. Allowing early purchases for dealers is preferential. You can disagree until the cows come home, but your arguments ring hollow. It’s also odd that you insist on disagreeing with my statement that the Mint’s practice of selling to dealers early is bothersome to me. It’s a statement of personal feeling. Get over it.
I assume the subscribers bother you also. After all, I could subscribe for 1000 coins and then I'd be getting them early also.
No, you cannot subscribe for 1,000 coins. One hundred is the limit.
100 per account.
But, still, I'd be ahead of you with 100 or more orders. The big guys were only running at around 8 or 900 each, I believe.
Subscriptions are an even playing field for everyone. Allowing early purchases for dealers is preferential. You can disagree until the cows come home, but your arguments ring hollow. It’s also odd that you insist on disagreeing with my statement that the Mint’s practice of selling to dealers early is bothersome to me. It’s a statement of personal feeling. Get over it.
I'm not arguing with your feelings about it. You might also hate the subscribers. I just think you should hate both preference groups equally. Well, "hate" is probably strong. But a lot of people dislike any number of ways the Mint does things when they feel it isn't to their benefit. Personally, I think a lot of people would object to subscribers getting preference for very limited editions.
People in different time zones dislike the release times if they are inconvenient to their time zone. Any casual buyer might hate preference being given to subscribers since they don't want to subscribe and would be at the back of the line. Regular customers want preference given to regulars while casual buyers want first come, first served.
Mostly, in this case, I think the bias against multi-million dollar buyers is typical. While, if I were a multi-million dollar buyer, I would think that failure to give preference is unfair.
Personally, I think the Mint has long failed to give proper preference to large buyers. They give bulk buyers a lousy 5% discount. I guarantee that a bulk buyer from any OEM in any other industry gets far more than a 5% discount and does get preferential delivery.
@Mgarmy said:
So not a big jump to ask...was the same deal in place to a lesser extent for the 2019s ERP, the v75 ASE and will this be the way it is for the two coin set for later this summer?
Not to my knowledge for the older issues. This is somewhat new. Maybe for the 2 coin set for later this summer.
@92vette said:
Wow so bulk dealers will have a jump on the public for the upcoming 2021 proof gold eagles as well. Most of these products have production limits under 13,000, one under 10,000.
Meh...I'm sure they are also limiting the bulk purchases. The Mint has never been very generous with its bulk buyers.
@92vette said:
Wow so bulk dealers will have a jump on the public for the upcoming 2021 proof gold eagles as well. Most of these products have production limits under 13,000, one under 10,000.
Meh...I'm sure they are also limiting the bulk purchases. The Mint has never been very generous with its bulk buyers.
Yes, according to CW each dealer is limited to 10% of the coins that they ordered the prior year. Added up the effect on the public could still be consequential. If you are a collector of 1/2 or 1/4 oz PR AGE's you are going to be shut out of this coin trying to order from the mint. You'll have a better chance going for the 4 coin set but that's almost $4500, many/most wouldn't want to outlay that.
@92vette said:
Wow so bulk dealers will have a jump on the public for the upcoming 2021 proof gold eagles as well. Most of these products have production limits under 13,000, one under 10,000.
Meh...I'm sure they are also limiting the bulk purchases. The Mint has never been very generous with its bulk buyers.
Yes, according to CW each dealer is limited to 10% of the coins that they ordered the prior year. Added up the effect on the public could still be consequential. If you are a collector of 1/2 or 1/4 oz PR AGE's you are going to be shut out of this coin trying to order from the mint. You'll have a better chance going for the 4 coin set but that's almost $4500, many/most wouldn't want to outlay that.
Completely disagree with the math.
As of this week, total sales of 2020 eagles are:
1 oz - 5784
1/2 oz - 2446
1/4 oz - 4232
1/10 oz - 12467
So, the MOST that ALL dealers can buy is 578 of the 1 oz, 245 of the 1/2 oz, 423 of the 1/4 oz and 1247 of the 1/10 oz.
The limits for 2021 are (product limit only, not the mintage limit):
1 oz - 4500
1/2 oz -1600
1/4 oz - 2700
1/10 oz - 8000
That means the dealers can only buy 13% of the 1 oz, 15.3% of the 1/2 oz, 15.7% of the 1/4 oz, and 15.6% of the 1/10 oz. And that assumes they bought ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of last year's mintage.
In practice, most of the mintage was bought by the general public and that means that 95+% of the mintage will be available to the general public.
1600 1/2 ozers and 2700 1/4 ers MAX, thats before early birders take their cut. How long wil these last? Dont wanna swing 4500? Too bad. Collectors btfo'd. Thats all the math needed.
The decision by United States Mint officials to permit bulk buyers to purchase and pick up Proof 2021-W American Eagle silver dollars, a coin many collectors were unable to obtain even a single example of, three days before the coin officially went on sale, only reinforces the belief that the Mint purposely caters to dealers to the detriment of collectors.
As Paul Gilkes reports, an unidentified number of Authorized Bulk Purchase Program dealers were able to buy thousands of Proof 2021-W American Eagle silver dollars early and take physical possession of them on Feb. 8, three days before the coins were offered to collectors and other dealers on Feb. 11. Some dealers have already placed their orders for the first Proof 2021-W American Eagle gold coins, which do not go on sale to the public until March 11.
The Feb. 11 offering proved frustrating for many Mint customers, with the “currently unavailable” status reached within minutes. Household limits of 99 were in place Feb. 11, a high number but still well below the number of coins the ABPP dealers were permitted to order on Feb. 8.
Collectors have long believed that, for certain high-interest products, big dealers have special access when it comes to buying. While we had seen no serious proof of that in the past beyond normal bulk purchase offerings, the Feb. 8 offering is clear evidence that the rules are different for different classes of customers of the U.S. Mint. Spend big bucks and you get special deals — early access and relaxed order limits — unavailable to an average collector who would happy to purchase just one coin or set at issue price.
@MsMorrisine said:
one would need to hear arguments from the mint dir to be able to launch a good campaign against the practice
It's really standard retail practice. I'm not aware of any Mint policy that would prohibit it.
Seems like they could/should offer it to anyone who bought 10 or more last year. [Not me.]
There is tremendous advantage to the Mint to engage in such practices. They get a lot of free advertising from promotion of their product by Apmex, Pinehurst, etc.
The decision by United States Mint officials to permit bulk buyers to purchase and pick up Proof 2021-W American Eagle silver dollars, a coin many collectors were unable to obtain even a single example of, three days before the coin officially went on sale, only reinforces the belief that the Mint purposely caters to dealers to the detriment of collectors.
As Paul Gilkes reports, an unidentified number of Authorized Bulk Purchase Program dealers were able to buy thousands of Proof 2021-W American Eagle silver dollars early and take physical possession of them on Feb. 8, three days before the coins were offered to collectors and other dealers on Feb. 11. Some dealers have already placed their orders for the first Proof 2021-W American Eagle gold coins, which do not go on sale to the public until March 11.
The Feb. 11 offering proved frustrating for many Mint customers, with the “currently unavailable” status reached within minutes. Household limits of 99 were in place Feb. 11, a high number but still well below the number of coins the ABPP dealers were permitted to order on Feb. 8.
Collectors have long believed that, for certain high-interest products, big dealers have special access when it comes to buying. While we had seen no serious proof of that in the past beyond normal bulk purchase offerings, the Feb. 8 offering is clear evidence that the rules are different for different classes of customers of the U.S. Mint. Spend big bucks and you get special deals — early access and relaxed order limits — unavailable to an average collector who would happy to purchase just one coin or set at issue price.
So, the membership here went from this is a dead upcoming proof AGE issue (due to mintage numbers) and now we aren’t going to be able to get any?! Damn, that was fast.
If these are all going to be sold at the same time on the same day, gird yer loins for a melee.
We have been here before with the V75.
@MilesWaits said:
So, the membership here went from this is a dead upcoming proof AGE issue (due to mintage numbers) and now we aren’t going to be able to get any?! Damn, that was fast.
If these are all going to be sold at the same time on the same day, gird yer loins for a melee.
We have been here before with the V75.
I don't know about a dead issue, but I think it's a tough flip. The premium is just so high. The mintage is below last year's sales, so it will probably sell out. But will anyone pay significantly above the Mint premium?
@RichR said:
And were any V75 AGE's also sold out the back door while I was literally being shut down by the Mint for hitting refresh too many times?!?
Just asking...because I'm still furious about that absolute BS too!
Not to my knowledge. The program was new and appears to apply to normal annual issues not special issues - hence the 10% or prior year purchases
@MsMorrisine said:
there is no 40-coin try of 4-coin AGE sets to add to the mintage
it is an unfair playing field to sell to the dealers first and even more unfair to allow them to order 10% of their previous year's levels.
I agree, it is highly unfair to the dealers.
Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.
Bulk buyers have long been at the back of the line, unable to purchase on the day of release. This doesn't even come close to "levelling the playing field". It is a shoddy way to treat a group of people who spend many thousands of dollars promoting your product to the masses.
I remember 2019 when a lot of people on this forum wanted to get have "long-time Mint customers" to get preferential ordering rights for the ERP because it wasn't fair that all the buying clubs and newbies were competing with them. I guess we only like preferences when we get them.
Even just this year with the V75 AGE, people wanted a lottery of "long-time Mint customers" because that was "more fair".
@cagcrisp said:
It’s amazing how many people are opposed to the United States deficit spending, yet want the Mint to operate on a Non profitable basis...
I've said before that as a taxpayer, I wish the Mint would get out of the commemoratives game. As a collector, I'm glad they are in it. The compromise is for them to try to run that as at least a break-even proposition.
It is totally understandable, and reasonable, that everyone wants what is in their own perceived best interest. I just wish people would acknowledge that is what they are doing. Cries of "fairness" try to make it seem like they are ascribing to a higher ideal than simple self interest.
I am NOT a bulk buyer. If I were, however, I would have been complaining loudly for the last couple of years that I was being shut out of all the low mintage "rarities". If I spent several million dollars per year with a company, I would expect to be at the front of the line, not the back. I think this "10% pre-order" is probably a compromise. Since it is going to cut the available supply by a couple of percent, I really don't think it is worth complaining about.
“Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.“
But they do buy anyway through their network of seagulls and sneaker club like groups etc
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Nah, it blinked for a second. Ad naseum, dealers think they get screwed, collectors know they get screwed.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@Mgarmy said:
“Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.“
But you do buy anyway through your network of seagulls and sneaker club like network
Yes, but that drives up my cost. Don't get me wrong, it helps a guy like me. Remember, I sold 300 of the 2021 ASE to a wholesaler who is a bulk buyer because he could not purchase his usual amount. But I'm sure he'd rather pay the issue price than 30+% over the issue price.
Look at the 2019 ERP. Bulk purchasers had to pay $1000 to acquire coins they normally get for $65 because they are at the back of the line. And that's after they have spent decades buying hundreds of thousands of ASE's and distributing them which is a service for the Mint. You can complain about HSN and the like, but they promote to people who wouldn't even know to look at the Mint website to see what's available.
I know no one is going to weep for those evil imperialist corporate raiders. But let's at least acknowledge the facts here: big customers get preference in most industries. And the only reason anyone's objecting to it here is because I feel it is against my own selfish self-interest.
Would anyone care if Apmex got to pre-order Mint sets with an unlimited mintage?
Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.
prove they have to wait 1 day
do not ascribe to me the thought that dealers, even those volume ones, should wait 24 hours as my version of fair. I never said that and do not say that I did. they should be subject to the same HHL as the rest of us and have to buy on day 1 like the rest of us. If the mint want to sell 40 coin trays as a different sku, then more power to the dealers to buy those and get whatever limits the mint imposes.
Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.
prove they have to wait 1 day
do not ascribe to me the thought that dealers, even those volume ones, should wait 24 hours as my version of fair. I never said that and do not say that I did. they should be subject to the same HHL as the rest of us and have to buy on day 1 like the rest of us. If the mint want to sell 40 coin trays as a different sku, then more power to the dealers to buy those and get whatever limits the mint imposes.
Unless they changed it, bulk purchaser did not have access for the 1st 24 hours. Ask @nurmaler. This has been discussed here before. I'll try to find a prior link. But, of course, you can then simply argue that it's an old thread.
Either way, the restricted HHL prevents them making bulk purchases until it's lifted.
Breaking News
For those interested, the 20XF silver V75 and the 24 karat WW2 20XG now shows Sold Out! I posted in the End of WW2 thread as well.
...now back to our regularly scheduled program.
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
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After having slept on this issue...specifically the access to these coins by some large buyers/dealers...
Let's imagine that the coins were released early to these buyers, shipped out, and then a major error is discovered before the coins go on sale to the rest of us...and the remaining coins are destroyed.
And the early releases are suddenly worth $1,000 or $5,000 or $10,000 each!
Would anybody have any issue with the early availability then?
Comments
Yes, you are correct.
I did not intend to suggest that the bulk purchasers were the issue, but rather mint incompetence, which allowed these scenarios to play out.
I don't even know how they screwed that up. Although maybe part of the reason was not having a subscriber deadline that was significantly prior to release.. If they had temporarily closed subscriptions in December or January, they would have had an accurate count as they did with the bulk dealers.
Wow so bulk dealers will have a jump on the public for the upcoming 2021 proof gold eagles as well. Most of these products have production limits under 13,000, one under 10,000.
So not a big jump to ask...was the same deal in place to a lesser extent for the 2019s ERP, the v75 ASE and will this be the way it is for the two coin set for later this summer?
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
100 per account.
But, still, I'd be ahead of you with 100 or more orders. The big guys were only running at around 8 or 900 each, I believe.
I just received shipping notification on a couple of the orders of 99. One of them is shipping 89+10. The other is shipping 83+10+6.
At least it isn't 33 sets of 3!
Subscriptions are an even playing field for everyone. Allowing early purchases for dealers is preferential. You can disagree until the cows come home, but your arguments ring hollow. It’s also odd that you insist on disagreeing with my statement that the Mint’s practice of selling to dealers early is bothersome to me. It’s a statement of personal feeling. Get over it.
I'm not arguing with your feelings about it. You might also hate the subscribers. I just think you should hate both preference groups equally. Well, "hate" is probably strong. But a lot of people dislike any number of ways the Mint does things when they feel it isn't to their benefit. Personally, I think a lot of people would object to subscribers getting preference for very limited editions.
People in different time zones dislike the release times if they are inconvenient to their time zone. Any casual buyer might hate preference being given to subscribers since they don't want to subscribe and would be at the back of the line. Regular customers want preference given to regulars while casual buyers want first come, first served.
Mostly, in this case, I think the bias against multi-million dollar buyers is typical. While, if I were a multi-million dollar buyer, I would think that failure to give preference is unfair.
Personally, I think the Mint has long failed to give proper preference to large buyers. They give bulk buyers a lousy 5% discount. I guarantee that a bulk buyer from any OEM in any other industry gets far more than a 5% discount and does get preferential delivery.
Not to my knowledge for the older issues. This is somewhat new. Maybe for the 2 coin set for later this summer.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12849144#Comment_12849144
@cagcrisp
Meh...I'm sure they are also limiting the bulk purchases. The Mint has never been very generous with its bulk buyers.
make no assumptions on dealer limitations
I would not have thought they would give dealers advance ordering and shipping. then do it on a 1 HHL AGE.
There would have to be limitations or they would already be sold out.
Thank You Sir...
Yes, according to CW each dealer is limited to 10% of the coins that they ordered the prior year. Added up the effect on the public could still be consequential. If you are a collector of 1/2 or 1/4 oz PR AGE's you are going to be shut out of this coin trying to order from the mint. You'll have a better chance going for the 4 coin set but that's almost $4500, many/most wouldn't want to outlay that.
Completely disagree with the math.
As of this week, total sales of 2020 eagles are:
1 oz - 5784
1/2 oz - 2446
1/4 oz - 4232
1/10 oz - 12467
So, the MOST that ALL dealers can buy is 578 of the 1 oz, 245 of the 1/2 oz, 423 of the 1/4 oz and 1247 of the 1/10 oz.
The limits for 2021 are (product limit only, not the mintage limit):
1 oz - 4500
1/2 oz -1600
1/4 oz - 2700
1/10 oz - 8000
That means the dealers can only buy 13% of the 1 oz, 15.3% of the 1/2 oz, 15.7% of the 1/4 oz, and 15.6% of the 1/10 oz. And that assumes they bought ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of last year's mintage.
In practice, most of the mintage was bought by the general public and that means that 95+% of the mintage will be available to the general public.
It seems the 4-coin set sold a lot. Why?
I hate the mint
1600 1/2 ozers and 2700 1/4 ers MAX, thats before early birders take their cut. How long wil these last? Dont wanna swing 4500? Too bad. Collectors btfo'd. Thats all the math needed.
Is 10,068 a lot? It sold more than the singles, but is that normal?
nothing a good letter to a congressman or two can't fix.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
one would need to hear arguments from the mint dir to be able to launch a good campaign against the practice
It's really standard retail practice. I'm not aware of any Mint policy that would prohibit it.
Seems like they could/should offer it to anyone who bought 10 or more last year. [Not me.]
There is tremendous advantage to the Mint to engage in such practices. They get a lot of free advertising from promotion of their product by Apmex, Pinehurst, etc.
Yes, they should have let them buy 20% of their 2020 orders rather than 10%!
apmex et al. would buy their lot without being first instead of right beside the J6P consumer
So, the membership here went from this is a dead upcoming proof AGE issue (due to mintage numbers) and now we aren’t going to be able to get any?! Damn, that was fast.
If these are all going to be sold at the same time on the same day, gird yer loins for a melee.
We have been here before with the V75.
I don't know about a dead issue, but I think it's a tough flip. The premium is just so high. The mintage is below last year's sales, so it will probably sell out. But will anyone pay significantly above the Mint premium?
I'm torn on the fiip.
Okay, I just got shipping notification on a 3rd lot. This time all 99 in one box. LOL
Re the early sales "and all businesses in America doing it"
The Mint is not "a business"...it is a government agency...and profit should not be a consideration.
And it should provide a level playing field for all its customers, regardless of sales volume.
And were any V75 AGE's also sold out the back door while I was literally being shut down by the Mint for hitting refresh too many times?!?
Just asking...because I'm still furious about that absolute BS too!
Not to my knowledge. The program was new and appears to apply to normal annual issues not special issues - hence the 10% or prior year purchases
Disagree.
There is benefit to the Mint and to the hobby by the action of the retailers.
It also helps get product to people who don't buy directly from the Mint.
Whether you want the Mint to be a profit center or non profit - and commems are definitely not profitable - it is a good business practice.
And for the ASE it had ZERO affect on availability as they were preordered and added to the 300k mintage limit.
there is no 40-coin try of 4-coin AGE sets to add to the mintage
it is an unfair playing field to sell to the dealers first and even more unfair to allow them to order 10% of their previous year's levels.
I’ll be glad when Everyone that Says they are going to quit buying from the Mint Actually quit buying from the Mint.
When they Actually quit, it will free up opportunity for those that actually purchase .that don’t Say they are going to Quit...
I agree, it is highly unfair to the dealers.
Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.
Bulk buyers have long been at the back of the line, unable to purchase on the day of release. This doesn't even come close to "levelling the playing field". It is a shoddy way to treat a group of people who spend many thousands of dollars promoting your product to the masses.
I remember 2019 when a lot of people on this forum wanted to get have "long-time Mint customers" to get preferential ordering rights for the ERP because it wasn't fair that all the buying clubs and newbies were competing with them. I guess we only like preferences when we get them.
Even just this year with the V75 AGE, people wanted a lottery of "long-time Mint customers" because that was "more fair".
It’s amazing how many people are opposed to the United States deficit spending, yet want the Mint to operate on a Non profitable basis...
I've said before that as a taxpayer, I wish the Mint would get out of the commemoratives game. As a collector, I'm glad they are in it. The compromise is for them to try to run that as at least a break-even proposition.
It is totally understandable, and reasonable, that everyone wants what is in their own perceived best interest. I just wish people would acknowledge that is what they are doing. Cries of "fairness" try to make it seem like they are ascribing to a higher ideal than simple self interest.
I am NOT a bulk buyer. If I were, however, I would have been complaining loudly for the last couple of years that I was being shut out of all the low mintage "rarities". If I spent several million dollars per year with a company, I would expect to be at the front of the line, not the back. I think this "10% pre-order" is probably a compromise. Since it is going to cut the available supply by a couple of percent, I really don't think it is worth complaining about.
“Imagine that last year I bought 10,000 proof ASE's for $650,000 and I do this EVERY YEAR. My prize is that I get to buy only 1,000 of them this year and get shut out of the other 90% of my offer because I'm not allowed to buy for 24 hours after release. If the Mint did that to you, you'd be furious.“
But they do buy anyway through their network of seagulls and sneaker club like groups etc
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Whatd I miss!? Forgot to check this morning
Didnt see anything flip.
Nah, it blinked for a second. Ad naseum, dealers think they get screwed, collectors know they get screwed.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Nothing
Yes, but that drives up my cost. Don't get me wrong, it helps a guy like me. Remember, I sold 300 of the 2021 ASE to a wholesaler who is a bulk buyer because he could not purchase his usual amount. But I'm sure he'd rather pay the issue price than 30+% over the issue price.
Look at the 2019 ERP. Bulk purchasers had to pay $1000 to acquire coins they normally get for $65 because they are at the back of the line. And that's after they have spent decades buying hundreds of thousands of ASE's and distributing them which is a service for the Mint. You can complain about HSN and the like, but they promote to people who wouldn't even know to look at the Mint website to see what's available.
I know no one is going to weep for those evil imperialist corporate raiders. But let's at least acknowledge the facts here: big customers get preference in most industries. And the only reason anyone's objecting to it here is because I feel it is against my own selfish self-interest.
Would anyone care if Apmex got to pre-order Mint sets with an unlimited mintage?
They are copying the Canadian Mint Model:
Higher Prices
Lower Mintages
Mint Resellers get first dibs on product.
If they can get resellers to take the entire production runs they can get rid of PFSWeb and save a bunch of money.
We are stuck with this stuff until April 2023 unless the Director of the Mint resigns again as he did in November 1993.
prove they have to wait 1 day
do not ascribe to me the thought that dealers, even those volume ones, should wait 24 hours as my version of fair. I never said that and do not say that I did. they should be subject to the same HHL as the rest of us and have to buy on day 1 like the rest of us. If the mint want to sell 40 coin trays as a different sku, then more power to the dealers to buy those and get whatever limits the mint imposes.
[Whatd I miss!? Forgot to check this morning]
Nothing...the Mint still sucks...like it did yesterday, and last moth, and last year...
Unless they changed it, bulk purchaser did not have access for the 1st 24 hours. Ask @nurmaler. This has been discussed here before. I'll try to find a prior link. But, of course, you can then simply argue that it's an old thread.
Either way, the restricted HHL prevents them making bulk purchases until it's lifted.
Breaking News
For those interested, the 20XF silver V75 and the 24 karat WW2 20XG now shows Sold Out! I posted in the End of WW2 thread as well.
...now back to our regularly scheduled program.
JUst bought another one box sealed
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
After having slept on this issue...specifically the access to these coins by some large buyers/dealers...
Let's imagine that the coins were released early to these buyers, shipped out, and then a major error is discovered before the coins go on sale to the rest of us...and the remaining coins are destroyed.
And the early releases are suddenly worth $1,000 or $5,000 or $10,000 each!
Would anybody have any issue with the early availability then?