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The Civil War Token Mega Thread

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  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinsarefun said:
    @DCW that C.F. Tuttle’s Restaurant token ROCKS!

    Thank you! It is a stunning piece. I actually just let that one go to a proud, new owner who wanted it just a little more than I did. Fortunately, I have an example in NGC MS65RB still

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinsarefun said:

    @coinsarefun said:
    I tend to like the pictorial Merchant CWT’s
    .
    .

    I still haven’t found out if these are still in or out of the CWT’s since I have a new silver
    one I guess I’ll post it again in this thread.

    I need to send this back in and have them change ‘Levick’s” to LEVICK

    Great tokens! You have a great collection!

    I always thought 1860 was too early for Civil War tokens since the war hadn't started yet.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Both E. Hill and Levick have been considered (Miller) storecards and not Civil War although various collectors & dealers have pushed for them to be included from time to time based mainly on their directory history while ignoring the bold date of exclusion on both.

    If you don't have a copy of the current CW storecard catalog it is available at a small fraction of the cost of the silver Levick token.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Kind of like the Weatlh of the South tokens with the date of 1860. Pre-dates the Civil War, but the pictorials and motto "No Submission to the North" will always be a popular type in the Patriotics. Just without being technically during the war years.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2020 5:04PM

    @DCW said:
    Kind of like the Weatlh of the South tokens with the date of 1860. Pre-dates the Civil War, but the pictorials and motto "No Submission to the North" will always be a popular type in the Patriotics. Just without being technically during the war years.

    Those are very popular. Agree it doesn't have to be a "Civil War Token" to enjoy it. There were many years and lots of activities leading up to the actual war.

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:
    Both E. Hill and Levick have been considered (Miller) storecards and not Civil War although various collectors & dealers have pushed for them to be included from time to time based mainly on their directory history while ignoring the bold date of exclusion on both.

    If you don't have a copy of the current CW storecard catalog it is available at a small fraction of the cost of the silver Levick token.

    .
    .
    I own the one you mention as well as others. I didn't want.....or think I needed to say I am not healthy enough to
    sit up at my desk and look through the book. I wish you didn't feel the need to include the statement that it is\a fraction of my token............I will delete all tokens not associated with this thread tonight when I am able to sit at my desk

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2020 5:17PM

    @coinsarefun said:

    @tokenpro said:
    Both E. Hill and Levick have been considered (Miller) storecards and not Civil War although various collectors & dealers have pushed for them to be included from time to time based mainly on their directory history while ignoring the bold date of exclusion on both.

    If you don't have a copy of the current CW storecard catalog it is available at a small fraction of the cost of the silver Levick token.

    I own the one you mention as well as others. I didn't want.....or think I needed to say I am not healthy enough to
    sit up at my desk and look through the book. I wish you didn't feel the need to include the statement that it is\a fraction of my token............I will delete all tokens not associated with this thread tonight when I am able to sit at my desk

    No reason to delete the tokens Stef!

    They are great and wonderful tokens. Who cares if they aren't "Civil War Tokens" in a book. We even have world coins and European cathedral medals in the US Coins forum ;)

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinsarefun
    Please leave those wonderful tokens right here on this thread. Hopefully tokenpro didn't mean anything by his comment. Sometimes the written word can sound harsh without inflection of voice, leaving a statement open to interpretation.
    Anyway...
    That silver smoker is one of my favorites! I was and am very happy you added that to your admirable collection.
    Hope you get well soon, and let's all enjoy these great pieces of history together

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • SimpleCollectorSimpleCollector Posts: 536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So the auction has now ended. I didn’t follow it live, but if I did, only one token went below $1000 ( the one with the flag), which maybe I would’ve thrown a last bid in.

    I figured I would post a pic of the 4 patriotic that caught my eye. Maybe someday I will get something similar. Note those are not my bids nor the final selling prices, just when I took a snapshot of the 4 I was interested in.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leave your images up - they are beautiful tokens. I was just answering your query as to whether they were CWTs or not. I included the information about the store card catalog as I have noticed not all on here are familiar with the many token & medal catalogs available. The sudden increased interest in game counters (largely due to Benj's collection coming on the market) and the unfamiliarity of some with the 30 year old Fuld-Rulau TAMS supplement brought this to the fore.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    Kind of like the Weatlh of the South tokens with the date of 1860. Pre-dates the Civil War, but the pictorials and motto "No Submission to the North" will always be a popular type in the Patriotics. Just without being technically during the war years.

    A major reason the 1860 Wealth of the South tokens were originally included is because they "look" like items that fit the traditional definition of Civil War tokens as money substitutes, much as a number of the pre-war Chicago and post-war Ohio store cards were included as well (yes, there are a number of oversized pieces also listed in both the H-G and Fuld listings). With some exceptions, the pre-war tokens have pretty much been grandfathered into the current edition as the definition has been evolving and expanding into tokens struck during the Civil War. This is why silver dollar sized items have been added with the large hard rubber store cards already knocking on the back door of the catalog.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 23, 2020 9:01AM

    @tokenpro said:

    @DCW said:
    Kind of like the Weatlh of the South tokens with the date of 1860. Pre-dates the Civil War, but the pictorials and motto "No Submission to the North" will always be a popular type in the Patriotics. Just without being technically during the war years.

    A major reason the 1860 Wealth of the South tokens were originally included is because they "look" like items that fit the traditional definition of Civil War tokens as money substitutes, much as a number of the pre-war Chicago and post-war Ohio store cards were included as well (yes, there are a number of oversized pieces also listed in both the H-G and Fuld listings). With some exceptions, the pre-war tokens have pretty much been grandfathered into the current edition as the definition has been evolving and expanding into tokens struck during the Civil War. This is why silver dollar sized items have been added with the large hard rubber store cards already knocking on the back door of the catalog.

    If 1860 Wealth of the South tokens can be included I'd be inclined to also include the 1860 Levick and even Cogan tokens. It's important to be consistent.

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still haven’t been able to look it up but I remember the Smoker tokens being in the first
    2 of Dave Bowers books. My brass was on both covers.
    I’ll leave the pics posted.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:
    Kind of like the Weatlh of the South tokens with the date of 1860. Pre-dates the Civil War, but the pictorials and motto "No Submission to the North" will always be a popular type in the Patriotics. Just without being technically during the war years.

    The Wealth of the South tokens, which include the tokens by that name AND the four 1860 presidential candidates, for as long as I have been a collector starting in 1960. Unlike the merchant tokens shown earlier, these pieces played an important role in the events that immediately led up to the Civil War.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CWT1863
    That is beautiful!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    @DCW said:
    Kind of like the Weatlh of the South tokens with the date of 1860. Pre-dates the Civil War, but the pictorials and motto "No Submission to the North" will always be a popular type in the Patriotics. Just without being technically during the war years.

    The Wealth of the South tokens, which include the tokens by that name AND the four 1860 presidential candidates, for as long as I have been a collector starting in 1960. Unlike the merchant tokens shown earlier, these pieces played an important role in the events that immediately led up to the Civil War.

    Okay, @BillJones just convinced me to go out and get a Wealth of the South token! :D

  • CWT1863CWT1863 Posts: 316 ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins
    Wealth of the South tokens are fascinating. I know Dave Bowers is working on a book about the Wealth of the South series but don't know when it will come out. Here is my example:

    ANA-LM, CWTS-LM, NBS, TAMS, ANS

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dave sure had many, many Wealth if the South varieties. Some of which are unique and unlikely to resurface in our lifetimes.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020 11:40AM

    @CWT1863 said:
    @Zoins
    Wealth of the South tokens are fascinating. I know Dave Bowers is working on a book about the Wealth of the South series but don't know when it will come out.

    @DCW said:
    Dave sure had many, many Wealth if the South varieties. Some of which are unique and unlikely to resurface in our lifetimes.

    Nice token @CWT1863!

    @DCW Did he sell his tokens already? I would have imagined he would sell these after his book? Do they have his Reference Collection insert on them?

    Do we know who struck them? I haven't been able to find any info on issue or die sinker yet.

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's one I just placed with a client out of my own collection:
    J.L Bode (brockage)/ City of New York mule (unique) PCGS MS65BN

    This one mules the iconic stag pictorial from JL Bode with the Steamship "City of New York" die. It is thought to be unique. And the brockage on the stag is just killer.
    Sad to let that one go!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins
    He has been selling his whole collection over the last few years and they all have the "Reference set" label. He writes the books for the love of history, not to promote his inventory which is refreshing in today's age.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020 11:41AM

    That is awesome @DCW! I love the brockage on that. Your collection is awesome to let that go!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020 11:44AM

    @DCW said:
    @Zoins
    He has been selling his whole collection over the last few years and they all have the "Reference set" label. He writes the books for the love of history, not to promote his inventory which is refreshing in today's age.

    Not for promoting inventory, but I would have thought it would be nice to have the pieces on hand for research while doing the writing. For example, Roger likes to have pieces available to him while writing.

  • CWT1863CWT1863 Posts: 316 ✭✭✭✭

    @DCW
    That one is fantastic! Here is my brass example of the J.L Bode token: NY 630H-1b R9 PCGS MS-64 Ex: Q. David Bowers

    ANA-LM, CWTS-LM, NBS, TAMS, ANS

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020 11:51AM

    @DCW said:
    He's had some of them for 50 years! They are all True viewed. He is 81 years old, and I think time is of the essence.
    Here are a few (not mine):




    Awesome tokens! It would be great to see them all :)

    It would be awesome to have a QDB legacy Registry Set for these.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    Do we know who struck them? I haven't been able to find any info on issue or die sinker yet.

    Benjamin True of Cincinnati struck the Wealth Of The South series, the 1860 Presidential candidates, the White House tokens, store cards for several Ohio & Tennessee merchants and, true to the (seemingly) Civil War die sinkers code, numerous mulings of all of the above most probably struck on demand for collectors.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020 12:25PM

    @tokenpro said:

    @Zoins said:

    Do we know who struck them? I haven't been able to find any info on issue or die sinker yet.

    Benjamin True of Cincinnati struck the Wealth Of The South series, the 1860 Presidential candidates, the White House tokens, store cards for several Ohio & Tennessee merchants and, true to the (seemingly) Civil War die sinkers code, numerous mulings of all of the above most probably struck on demand for collectors.

    Great info!

    Do we know the names of any collectors that were pursuing these when new? I haven't run across any yet.

    For example, we know the names of some of the collectors buying then-new US Mint fantasy pattern coins, such as those from the Boston Numismatic Society.

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I always get a kick out of my grade at ngc
    1860 F- 511/514 B THE WEALTH OF THE SOUTH MS 63 TBN As in “Too Brown” or “To b determined later” ?.........lol.....I have no clue as to the TBN meaning.
    .its not dark and also would prolly upgrade
    .

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020 2:01PM

    Nice token Stef and everyone! the Wealth of the South seems to be a popular theme here!

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice @Zoins

    I'm sure you've already done this, but it is often beneficial to start with the seller whom you've purchased it and work back from there. A high end piece like this likely passed through the hands of the usual suspects: Tannenbaum, Rossa, Fuld, Hayden, Ernie Latter, Henry South, etc.

    Good luck and nice Bridgens piece!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • SimpleCollectorSimpleCollector Posts: 536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2021 3:32PM

    Would love to post some new tokens, but at recent/current auctions, all the stuff I am interested seems to be going at REALLY strong prices. Hoping that I may be able to hold on and at least win a single piece this week.

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice color to this one.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021 11:53PM

    (1864) McClellan US Copper Token - White Metal - by Henry Bridgens - Fuld 138/434 e, R8 deWitt GMcC 1864-33 - PCGS MS64 POP 1/0 - Ex. Robert "Bob" Williams, Steve Hayden (inv)

    A relatively new token for my 1864 Lincoln vs. McClellan campaign token collection.

    The political nature is recognized by the J. Doyle deWitt number.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021 9:08AM

    Should I change my collecting strategy?

    This is a token I love that was recently sold. I passed on it since it was outside my collecting focus but now I'm wondering if I should just get what appeals to me design wise.

    Any thoughts?

    1863 V. Blatz Lager Beer City Brewery & Malt House 1863 Milwaukee - Fuld WI510E-1a R3 - PCGS MS65 BN POP 1/0 - by John Marr - Ex. Steve Hayden (d)

  • SimpleCollectorSimpleCollector Posts: 536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Short answer is yes. I think you see more people adjusting to the concept of...does the coin token make me smile or make me happy.

    As I review some upcoming auctions, I have started with a reasonable size list of coins/tokens that I want or need. Yet many of those either don’t have the look, the price, the grade to fit in perfectly. As I am making my final decisions, the coins I am going to go after are the ones that make me smile regardless to if they fit my exact collecting niche or not.

    With regards to that token, beer appeals to many of us, so the subject matter makes me happy.

  • jedmjedm Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, I haven't checked on this thread in a while and see there's been some really nice high quality pieces posted since I looked last. My token collection is very modest but as a side project to my IHC set I like to have a few from that era. I'll share another one here, low grade but hey it is what it is:

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Should I change my collecting strategy?

    This is a token I love that was recently sold. I passed on it since it was outside my collecting focus but now I'm wondering if I should just get what appeals to me design wise.

    Any thoughts?

    >
    .
    .
    You have to collect what you like, if not you’ll never be happy with your collection.
    I find self going after to many different ones that I get lost with my goals, but then again
    I never really had any goals ;)

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinsarefun said:

    @Zoins said:
    Should I change my collecting strategy?

    This is a token I love that was recently sold. I passed on it since it was outside my collecting focus but now I'm wondering if I should just get what appeals to me design wise.

    Any thoughts?

    You have to collect what you like, if not you’ll never be happy with your collection.
    I find self going after to many different ones that I get lost with my goals, but then again
    I never really had any goals ;)

    Here's one I just missed. I thought about it for a day or so and then it was sold!

    I don't collect CWTs overstruck coins but this one just looked awesome!

  • MarkMark Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @zoins I clicked "like" on your post about the CWT not because you missed it--that I dislike--but because the token is sweet. :)

    Mark


  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2021 2:42PM

    @Mark said:
    @zoins I clicked "like" on your post about the CWT not because you missed it--that I dislike--but because the token is sweet. :)

    Thanks! I couldn't stop looking at it. I wish I was able to get it in time!

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @coinsarefun said:

    @Zoins said:
    Should I change my collecting strategy?

    This is a token I love that was recently sold. I passed on it since it was outside my collecting focus but now I'm wondering if I should just get what appeals to me design wise.

    Any thoughts?

    You have to collect what you like, if not you’ll never be happy with your collection.
    I find self going after to many different ones that I get lost with my goals, but then again
    I never really had any goals ;)

    Here's one I just missed. I thought about it for a day or so and then it was sold!

    I don't collect CWTs overstruck coins but this one just looked awesome!

    .
    .
    That is crazy cool looking!

  • SimpleCollectorSimpleCollector Posts: 536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am hoping that some of you are winning some tokens this weekend. I did win one, and hope that I win another tomorrow. They will appear in this thread or the Thursday thread once I have it/them in hand.

  • MarkMark Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SimpleCollector I was outbid on the two I bid upon. I was the underbidder on one and reasonably close on the other. I expect/hope to see a lot of the tokens show up in this thread.

    Mark


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