All kidding aside, lets hope we all are making some money on the news.......
It just still baffles me how the record keeping could go so bad......... >>
7/8 I must add, that I sure wish that I had listened to you as I was selling off my four '08 W plat unc sets in the sealed mint box for $2600. Shoulda, coulda, woulda..... as I said, you da man!
As others have said, one has to wonder what price levels the '08 Ws will reach. Note the disappointing prices for the '06 Ws up until this point when many thought that they were the low mintage plat kings - initial spike then fell off and didn't recover much.
I think that the '08 W proofs will be incredible and, in time, will far overtake the '04s.
Couple questions (Sorry if this has been already addressed):
1 - What is the source of the new mintage data being referenced for 08, is it available from the Mint?
2 - Has the numbers changed for the 08-W AGEs too?
It would be great to have it all consolidated in one place... (read: book or white paper).
Thank you Eric for the great updates. AK
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
I'm not impressed with any of the individual burnished plats, but do think it is a good little series. It will lack popularity because they're burnished, because it's a short series, and because there is no clear King. The proofs are another story. Seems the 1/10th is clearly King of the $10 and the percentage King of all plats. The biggest negatives will be affordability and size (on the $10).
Another interesting coin is the 2008-W $50 Buff at 9,000!!! Very popular metal, design, and the lowest mintage 1oz gold since 1933. The only detractor would be the 2006-W Eagle Reverse Proof at 10,000. However, it probably just increases the popularity of both coins...thoughts?
<<Another interesting coin is the 2008-W $50 Buff at 9,000!!! Very popular metal, design, and the lowest mintage 1oz gold since 1933. The only detractor would be the 2006-W Eagle Reverse Proof at 10,000. However, it probably just increases the popularity of both coins...thoughts? >>
So far, anything with a Buffalo on it seems to sell itself...it's popularity seems to transcend "minor" issues such as mintage.
<< <i> Another interesting coin is the 2008-W $50 Buff at 9,000!!! Very popular metal, design, and the lowest mintage 1oz gold since 1933. The only detractor would be the 2006-W Eagle Reverse Proof at 10,000. However, it probably just increases the popularity of both coins...thoughts? >>
I agree that the 2008-W Unc $50 Buff is a low pop coin is a popular coin........The $50 Proof Buff and fractionals will be popular as well.
I'm not impressed with any of the individual burnished plats, but do think it is a good little series. It will lack popularity because they're burnished, because it's a short series, and because there is no clear King. The proofs are another story. Seems the 1/10th is clearly King of the $10 and the percentage King of all plats. The biggest negatives will be affordability and size (on the $10).
I might be in a minority, but I prefer the platinum uncirculated coins to the proofs. I find the mirrored finish on the proofs distracts from the design; the uncirculated finish highlights it. There's also evidence that while proofs might be more popular at the outset, lower mintage uncirculateds do better over time. Jackie Robinson $5 unc versus proof.
The fact that it's a short series is good, not bad, for collectibility. 3 years with allegorical designs, tied to the 3 branches of government -- that's a nice, discrete, affordable set. 3 coins and you're done (4 if you want to include an eagle over the sun type coin). You don't need a "clear King" for a 3 coin series, especially when the mintages are low enough that there are effectively Three Kings.
True that demand for the platinums is not nearly as deep as for golds, but affordability is relative with gold over $1100 an ounce. Affordability is also relative to the length of the series. For instance, right now you could easily put together a low mintage 3 coin set of 2006w to 2008w platinum $25 uncs for under $2,000. You could bump up to the 1 ounce coins for under $6,000. How far would a similar outlay get you into a longer gold series? Not very.
Several good points on affordability by nycounsel, see above.
It's hard to pick a favorite series, let alone a favorite coin from 2008.
The Proof Plats? Who can argue with low mintages, stunning design, flawless mirrored surfaces, and high intrinsic value? We can debate whether the 1/10th ozer is King on a % basis or whether the 1/4 ozer or 1/2 ozer is King because of the lower mintages and greater heft. Yep, we can debate those questions all day long, but they are all amazing winners.
The Burnished Plats? It seems obvious to me that the only folks who don't think that these are stupendous winners are the people who didn't buy them. If analysis by percentage is the criteria, then the Burnished Plats all have between 28% and 44% lower mintages than all of their 2008 Proof Counterparts. The "W" Uncs are now a closed series having the lowest mintages within a larger population of high value coins. The Plat Series isn't complete without them, and like it or not - they are series Kings - due mainly to their unparalleled (in Modern Era history) low mintages, in my humble opinion.
The Gold Buffs? What's not to like? Low mintages and a great classic design with hammered fields in both Proof and Unc. I don't see prices dropping off much for any of the 2008-W Gold Buffs, if at all. It appears that the 2009-W Proofs have already exceeded the 2008-W Proofs by a significant number, and they are still being supplied "to demand". There is no real comparison to make here.
And Lastly, the 2008 American Gold Eagles. Looking at the "W" Burnished Uncs, the 2008s are lowest in the Burnished Series, which again - have the lowest mintages within a larger series. And here again, any full blown collection of AGEs is not complete without the "W" coins. In fact, the 1/4 ozer and the 1 ozer have tantalizingly low mintages (8,882 and 11,908 respectively) within a series that is now 24 years old. If the fractionals are discontinued permanently, it's likely that the 1/4 oz. "W" Burnished AGE will remain the lowest mintage Modern Gold coin produced since what, 1915? That can't be all bad, can it?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Yes, and we WILL argue the points all day long--repeatedly! As for my two cents...
I think ALL the unc-w and proof buffs, and the proof plats are the strong winners for last year.
Despite the fact that I did buy the unc-w plats, I just don't see them being as popular as the proofs in years to come. Why? a) The set is TOO short. It doesn't present enough of a challenge for a serious collector. b) Weak design. Beautiful, yes. Inspiring, no. Just too bureaucratic and self-serving.
The proof plats, OTOH, benefit from gorgeous AND inspiring early designs, and have been around long enough to present a challenge. Have to say, too, that while I prefer unc in gold, I like proof platinum a lot better for looks.
2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....? $2300.00
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
It looks like they are off a bit - the number I show is 6,592. >>
How did that happen? Were the numbers revised late? I have never known the Red Book to make a mistake on mintages but maybe they do more than I realized.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
How did that happen? Were the numbers revised late? I have never known the Red Book to make a mistake on mintages but maybe they do more than I realized.
In my 2008 (61st Edition) Red Book, almost all of the Proof Platinum mintages for the recent dates are incorrect - I mean, WAY wrong.
My observation is that the editors of Red Book don't give a rat's *** about Plats and have no motivation to get the numbers right. I can't think of any other reason for such sloppy work that spans over 5 years' worth of Plat production.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The redbook is notoriously bad with platinums. 2005 isn't the only year with a problem. I think the most likely reason is failure to count coins issued as part of the 4 coin sets.
<< <i>2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....? $2300.00
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo. >>
It's probably real. Check the description, it's for two coins.
<< <i>2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....? $2300.00
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo. >>
At the bottom of the listing, it says it is for two coins
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo.
At the bottom of the listing, it says it is for two coins
If it's for (2) coins, it may be real. However, the price for an OGP specimen has moved from $600 to $800 to $1,150 very rapidly.
The high price that I have on file is for an NGC MS-70 at $1,185, and a few other NGC MS-70s which have sold for over $1,000.
I have no recent PCGS MS-70 sales, and the most recent PCGS MS-69 that I show was for $1,032 (when the previous sale to that one was only for $635). Wow.
The price increases seem to be moving rapidly, and I realistically don't know how much higher they can go, unless gold continues up at a fast clip - which it may.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Eric, I like your advice on acquiring these "W" coins over the next two years. I remember Jackie Robinson and a couple others just being under the radar for many many years. And now look at the modern commemorative gold series.
Three-coins sets are doable and one has four choices of weight and two choices of finish and two metals. Any combo of 2006-2008 W's will do fine. These are all low mintage pieces. The only competition for these coins are on these boards and NGC's board for now. I don't think it'll take many many years for these to get popular.
I can be fairly certain the Mint will mistakenly give us another gem here shortly. All we have to do is look at the Spouses. There may be some ops in the 5oz Silver Parks "quarter" series.
I was quite surprised to see the huge (33%) drop in the numbers for the 2008 Platinum burnished uncirculated coins. Congratulations to "7 over 8"!
With the settled numbers, the new individual platinum proof "king" is the 2008-W $50.00 half-ounce coin, which is now also officially the rarest proof coin ever issued by the United States since 1936.
I also do not see the 2004 coins retaining their premium ... I think the focus will now shift onto the 2008 platinum proof coins.
The 2008-W $50.00 half-ounce burnished uncirculated coin has now overtaken the previous uncirculated "king", namely, the 2006-W $50.00 burnished uncirculated coin, but not by much. The same holds true for the $100.00 denomination in both years.
However, I would argue that given the melting of the 2006 $50.00 and $100.00 coins (perhaps 10% or so), the total number of extant coins (the 2006-W $50.00 and $100.00 denomination coins, as opposed to the 2008-W $50.00 and $100.00 coins) is probably about the same. The coins of both years, in my opinion, are quite desirable!
However, in the final anaylsis, I think that the entire three-year set is a winner for all of the reasons that Eric has mentioned!
Finally, the "Red Book" numbers for the platinum series do not include the coins in the sets. This is an obvious and misleading error that I wish the group would bring to the attention of Whitman Publishing, who puts out the "Red Book".
In a nutshell, when platinum coins with mintages of a scant 6,000 - 9,000 sell for no premium whatsoever to the very highest mintage platinum coins in the series, the challenge is to develop much higher pricing levels for the 2,250 - 5,000 mintage coins. 7,500 mintage coins are super low mintage coins (compare the 1946-P Lincoln cent at 1,000,000,000 mintage) - but, IMHO the key to the platinum series' fate is tied to getting the collector base to start assigning premiums to the sub-9,000 mintage coins (i.e. hundreds if not thousands of new collectors stepping in to collect the series). If these 6,000-9,000 mintage coins continue to command virtually no premium at all, it will be much more difficult to assign high premiums to the 2,250-5,000 coins in my view. One day, if and when these 6,000 -9,000 mintage platinum coins start to command meaningful premiums, the lower mintage coins will, IMHO, be potentially fantastic and valuable coins. Until then, keep an eye on the sub-9,000 mintage platinum coins that are currently available any day of the week for -0- premium to the highest mintage plat coins ever produced by the Mint.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
when platinum coins with mintages of a scant 6,000 - 9,000 sell for no premium
So what do you mean by this statement? All plats are selling for a premium. The 1/4 ouncers are around $400 plus and that's for the bullion too. Platinum isn't anywhere near the $1600 level.
ttown: What I mean is no ADDITIONAL premium to the typical premium that ALL platinum coins fetch when being marketed as bullion platinum coins. Hope this helps.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>ttown: What I mean is no ADDITIONAL premium to the typical premium that ALL platinum coins fetch when being marketed as bullion platinum coins. Hope this helps.
Wondercoin >>
... that is an outright falsehood, as the key platinum dates are all selling for in excess of 100% over generic dates!
Kingplatinum - If you can't or don't want to understand my comment, that's fine. I have no interest in trying to educate you to my point of view (and I am sure the feeling is mutual). But, don't start throwing around your meanspirited accusations of "falsehoods", etc. It is really not appropiate.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Plats in the 6,000 to 9,000 range are low mintage, but they aren't the keys.
I didn't realize that slabbed pieces in that mintage range were selling at roughly the same premiums as ungraded pieces. Is that what's being said, Mitch?
I've noticed that the common slabbed Plats have about the same premium as unslabbed Plats, but I didn't know that the phenomenon applied down into the 6,000 to 9,000 range.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
is 2008-W Proof or W UNC the KING of ALL PLATINUMS????? imho.....NO....2004 and 1997 $100s still tops in my book....most difficult coins to make in PR70DCAM....the point that wondercoin is making, while totally misunderstood, is totally valid....
the platinums should be looked at as a SERIES....not as a group of individual coins.....once the market realizes the value of the 1997-2009 platinum series....then the value of one individual coin amongst the group is not material....they will all be substantial....
if one is looking for the lowest possible modern coin made....start looking over in the spouse series....no one cares about them....and becuase of that one day, low and behold the new modern KING will be a GIRL....
Gyromac - Throw in a 1999-W $100 PR70DC for good measure... another killer coin in true perfect quality grade.
Jmski52 - Exactly; in fact, in some cases the PR69DC coins are worth LESS now than the same raw coin in a govt. box. This is especially the case with Proof Gold coins today, but also similar for Proof Platinum. And, bear in mind that nearly 2/3 (or mor) of all Proof Platinum coins fall in the sub-10.000 mintage column. In other words, most platinum pieces.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Did you all catch the 2008 W plat PCGS MS70FS set that sold on Ebay for $8k - nearly $3K more than a non-FS set is bringing?? I just don't get why one would pay so much for a label that is literally meaningless. I understand that they do bring a premium, but nearly $3K??? Unreal.
>>if one is looking for the lowest possible modern coin made....start looking over in the spouse series....no one cares about them....and becuase of that one day, low and behold the new modern KING will be a GIRL....<<
I doubt if any First Spouse gold coin will achieve a mintage of less than 2253, no matter how unpopular the series may become. Too many eyes are watching the week-to-week sales totals.
Nothing weeds out bullion collectors from the true coin collectors more than High Price in the spot market.
The W Unc Plats coins that survived the April 2008 "Spring Melt" when prices peaked are held by the collectors and I am afraid the true size of collecting base for the W Unc Plat series is probably comprised of a lot less people than one might think.
When you combine the apparent waning support, (even lack of support) from the issuer (Mint), I am afraid the W Unc Plats Series as it matures, will be relegated to a specialized "Commerrative" type collector who's base membership gets smaller in number every year but will hold more coins tomorrow than they do today, i.e. a very concentrated number of collectors hold a large number of the coins.
<< <i>>>if one is looking for the lowest possible modern coin made....start looking over in the spouse series....no one cares about them....and becuase of that one day, low and behold the new modern KING will be a GIRL....<<
I doubt if any First Spouse gold coin will achieve a mintage of less than 2253, no matter how unpopular the series may become. Too many eyes are watching the week-to-week sales totals. >>
overdate.....yes i agree there is a tremendous amount of weekly info that is made available....is it reliable???? 08W plats surprised the majority of those watchful eyes....moreover, at some point the USM has to realize that they are not going to sell 20,000 of each spouse....so just like all the platinum guys got caught short changed in 2004.....it is more than likely that sometime in the next 5-6yrs this has a huge possibility of happening again in the spouse world...
<< <i>Did you all catch the 2008 W plat PCGS MS70FS set that sold on Ebay for $8k - nearly $3K more than a non-FS set is bringing?? I just don't get why one would pay so much for a label that is literally meaningless. I understand that they do bring a premium, but nearly $3K??? Unreal. >>
I think the reason for this is that the only coins that qualified for FS were the ones purchased from the Mint at the initial Mint offering price when platinum spot was sky high. Hence this "cost of goods" factor seems to have been adjusted into the market price. The people who didn't make out are the ones who bought from the Mint at the high prices and didn't submit for FS.
>>overdate.....yes i agree there is a tremendous amount of weekly info that is made available....is it reliable???? 08W plats surprised the majority of those watchful eyes....moreover, at some point the USM has to realize that they are not going to sell 20,000 of each spouse....so just like all the platinum guys got caught short changed in 2004.....it is more than likely that sometime in the next 5-6yrs this has a huge possibility of happening again in the spouse world...<<
True, the weekly info is not always reliable, but it tends to be most unreliable when there is a rush of orders as the Mint's inventory of a particular coin is being depleted. That's what happened with the 2006-W burnished plats. Reported sales were significantly higher than the final reported mintage, because many orders were accepted but later could not be fulfilled. For those of us who lived through the 2006 experience, 2008 looked like a rerun. Consequently, we were expecting the 2008 mintages to likewise come in much lower than reported sales, and we were vindicated in the end.
I think the Mint has adjusted the production runs of First Spouse coins to much lower levels than sales of the earlier issues, based on waning demand. This is probably why the 2008-W Jackson's Liberty coin sold out earlier than the normal 1-year ordering period for First Spouse coins. The same could happen with the Van Buren's Liberty, whose sales are due to end in a few weeks. In light of this situation I would expect the Mint to moderately increase its production of future Spouse issues to avoid further premature sellouts. I don't see any circumstance in which the Mint would set up a production run of less than 2,253 First Spouse coins.
Comments
<< <i>NYC -
All kidding aside, lets hope we all are making some money on the news.......
It just still baffles me how the record keeping could go so bad......... >>
7/8 I must add, that I sure wish that I had listened to you as I was selling off my four '08 W plat unc sets in the sealed mint box for $2600. Shoulda, coulda, woulda..... as I said, you da man!
As others have said, one has to wonder what price levels the '08 Ws will reach. Note the disappointing prices for the '06 Ws up until this point when many thought that they were the low mintage plat kings - initial spike then fell off and didn't recover much.
I think that the '08 W proofs will be incredible and, in time, will far overtake the '04s.
<< <i>Guys >>
Well put Eric San!!
You have been a fine guide.
Miles
1 - What is the source of the new mintage data being referenced for 08, is it available from the Mint?
2 - Has the numbers changed for the 08-W AGEs too?
It would be great to have it all consolidated in one place... (read: book or white paper).
Thank you Eric for the great updates. AK
Akbeez
From page 278.....
Final Finals for 2008
Platinum
Proof
1 0.5 0.25 0.1
4769 4020 4153 5138
MS-w
2876 2253 2481 3706
Gold
Proof
30237 22602 18877 28116
Unc-w
11908 15682 8883 12657 >>
Spank me!
It just gets better and better.
Thank you Eric
R95
You were right on with that call, you made it and took alot of heat (much of it from me ;>
Now, what were you saying about those 2009 W Proof Buff's...?
Another interesting coin is the 2008-W $50 Buff at 9,000!!! Very popular metal, design, and the lowest mintage 1oz gold since 1933. The only detractor would be the 2006-W Eagle Reverse Proof at 10,000. However, it probably just increases the popularity of both coins...thoughts?
Them's fighin' words...
Let the games begin!
So far, anything with a Buffalo on it seems to sell itself...it's popularity seems to transcend "minor" issues such as mintage.
Well see if that trend holds in 2009.
<< <i> Another interesting coin is the 2008-W $50 Buff at 9,000!!! Very popular metal, design, and the lowest mintage 1oz gold since 1933. The only detractor would be the 2006-W Eagle Reverse Proof at 10,000. However, it probably just increases the popularity of both coins...thoughts? >>
I agree that the 2008-W Unc $50 Buff is a low pop coin is a popular coin........The $50 Proof Buff and fractionals will be popular as well.
snman
I might be in a minority, but I prefer the platinum uncirculated coins to the proofs. I find the mirrored finish on the proofs distracts from the design; the uncirculated finish highlights it. There's also evidence that while proofs might be more popular at the outset, lower mintage uncirculateds do better over time. Jackie Robinson $5 unc versus proof.
The fact that it's a short series is good, not bad, for collectibility. 3 years with allegorical designs, tied to the 3 branches of government -- that's a nice, discrete, affordable set. 3 coins and you're done (4 if you want to include an eagle over the sun type coin). You don't need a "clear King" for a 3 coin series, especially when the mintages are low enough that there are effectively Three Kings.
True that demand for the platinums is not nearly as deep as for golds, but affordability is relative with gold over $1100 an ounce. Affordability is also relative to the length of the series. For instance, right now you could easily put together a low mintage 3 coin set of 2006w to 2008w platinum $25 uncs for under $2,000. You could bump up to the 1 ounce coins for under $6,000. How far would a similar outlay get you into a longer gold series? Not very.
It's hard to pick a favorite series, let alone a favorite coin from 2008.
The Proof Plats? Who can argue with low mintages, stunning design, flawless mirrored surfaces, and high intrinsic value? We can debate whether the 1/10th ozer is King on a % basis or whether the 1/4 ozer or 1/2 ozer is King because of the lower mintages and greater heft. Yep, we can debate those questions all day long, but they are all amazing winners.
The Burnished Plats? It seems obvious to me that the only folks who don't think that these are stupendous winners are the people who didn't buy them. If analysis by percentage is the criteria, then the Burnished Plats all have between 28% and 44% lower mintages than all of their 2008 Proof Counterparts. The "W" Uncs are now a closed series having the lowest mintages within a larger population of high value coins. The Plat Series isn't complete without them, and like it or not - they are series Kings - due mainly to their unparalleled (in Modern Era history) low mintages, in my humble opinion.
The Gold Buffs? What's not to like? Low mintages and a great classic design with hammered fields in both Proof and Unc. I don't see prices dropping off much for any of the 2008-W Gold Buffs, if at all. It appears that the 2009-W Proofs have already exceeded the 2008-W Proofs by a significant number, and they are still being supplied "to demand". There is no real comparison to make here.
And Lastly, the 2008 American Gold Eagles. Looking at the "W" Burnished Uncs, the 2008s are lowest in the Burnished Series, which again - have the lowest mintages within a larger series. And here again, any full blown collection of AGEs is not complete without the "W" coins. In fact, the 1/4 ozer and the 1 ozer have tantalizingly low mintages (8,882 and 11,908 respectively) within a series that is now 24 years old. If the fractionals are discontinued permanently, it's likely that the 1/4 oz. "W" Burnished AGE will remain the lowest mintage Modern Gold coin produced since what, 1915? That can't be all bad, can it?
I knew it would happen.
I think ALL the unc-w and proof buffs, and the proof plats are the strong winners for last year.
Despite the fact that I did buy the unc-w plats, I just don't see them being as popular as the proofs in years to come. Why?
a) The set is TOO short. It doesn't present enough of a challenge for a serious collector.
b) Weak design. Beautiful, yes. Inspiring, no. Just too bureaucratic and self-serving.
The proof plats, OTOH, benefit from gorgeous AND inspiring early designs, and have been around long enough to present a challenge. Have to say, too, that while I prefer unc in gold, I like proof platinum a lot better for looks.
And next in the ring...
2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....?
$2300.00
It looks like they are off a bit - the number I show is 6,592.
I knew it would happen.
Can this be right.....?
$2300.00
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....?
$2300.00 >>
Must have been his moma. Merry Christmas son.
<< <i>932 2005 $25 proof plats minted
It looks like they are off a bit - the number I show is 6,592. >>
How did that happen? Were the numbers revised late? I have never known the Red Book to make a mistake on mintages but maybe they do more than I realized.
I hope that sonny boy knows that he has to pay income taxes on the gain that he just realized!
I knew it would happen.
In my 2008 (61st Edition) Red Book, almost all of the Proof Platinum mintages for the recent dates are incorrect - I mean, WAY wrong.
My observation is that the editors of Red Book don't give a rat's *** about Plats and have no motivation to get the numbers right. I can't think of any other reason for such sloppy work that spans over 5 years' worth of Plat production.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....?
$2300.00
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo. >>
It's probably real. Check the description, it's for two coins.
Rare 2004 Proof Plat Error
http://completed.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=buffalo+gold+set+-copy+-pcgs+-ngc+-only+-$50+-prosperity+-mugs+-nickel&_sacat=11116&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=Coins_Bullion&LH_Complete=1&_odkw=buffalo+gold+set+-copy+-pcgs+-ngc+-only+-$50+-prosperity+-mugs&_osacat=11116
<< <i>2008 W American Eagle 1/2 One Half Ounce Gold Unc Coin
Can this be right.....?
$2300.00
I've been tracking numerous auctions, and this coin has been moving up towards $900 to $1,000 but I can't imagine it hitting $2,300. One bidder. Not real, imo. >>
At the bottom of the listing, it says it is for two coins
At the bottom of the listing, it says it is for two coins
If it's for (2) coins, it may be real. However, the price for an OGP specimen has moved from $600 to $800 to $1,150 very rapidly.
The high price that I have on file is for an NGC MS-70 at $1,185, and a few other NGC MS-70s which have sold for over $1,000.
I have no recent PCGS MS-70 sales, and the most recent PCGS MS-69 that I show was for $1,032 (when the previous sale to that one was only for $635). Wow.
The price increases seem to be moving rapidly, and I realistically don't know how much higher they can go, unless gold continues up at a fast clip - which it may.
I knew it would happen.
Three-coins sets are doable and one has four choices of weight and two choices of finish and two metals. Any combo of 2006-2008 W's will do fine. These are all low mintage pieces. The only competition for these coins are on these boards and NGC's board for now. I don't think it'll take many many years for these to get popular.
I can be fairly certain the Mint will mistakenly give us another gem here shortly. All we have to do is look at the Spouses. There may be some ops in the 5oz Silver Parks "quarter" series.
R95
I was quite surprised to see the huge (33%) drop in the numbers for the 2008 Platinum burnished uncirculated coins. Congratulations to "7 over 8"!
With the settled numbers, the new individual platinum proof "king" is the 2008-W $50.00 half-ounce coin, which is now also officially the rarest proof coin ever issued by the United States since 1936.
I also do not see the 2004 coins retaining their premium ... I think the focus will now shift onto the 2008 platinum proof coins.
The 2008-W $50.00 half-ounce burnished uncirculated coin has now overtaken the previous uncirculated "king", namely, the 2006-W $50.00 burnished uncirculated coin,
but not by much. The same holds true for the $100.00 denomination in both years.
However, I would argue that given the melting of the 2006 $50.00 and $100.00 coins (perhaps 10% or so), the total number of extant coins (the 2006-W $50.00 and $100.00 denomination coins, as opposed to the 2008-W $50.00 and $100.00 coins) is probably about the same. The coins of both years, in my opinion, are quite desirable!
However, in the final anaylsis, I think that the entire three-year set is a winner for all of the reasons that Eric has mentioned!
Finally, the "Red Book" numbers for the platinum series do not include the coins in the sets. This is an obvious and misleading error that I wish the group would bring to the
attention of Whitman Publishing, who puts out the "Red Book".
David
In a nutshell, when platinum coins with mintages of a scant 6,000 - 9,000 sell for no premium whatsoever to the very highest mintage platinum coins in the series, the challenge is to develop much higher pricing levels for the 2,250 - 5,000 mintage coins. 7,500 mintage coins are super low mintage coins (compare the 1946-P Lincoln cent at 1,000,000,000 mintage) - but, IMHO the key to the platinum series' fate is tied to getting the collector base to start assigning premiums to the sub-9,000 mintage coins (i.e. hundreds if not thousands of new collectors stepping in to collect the series). If these 6,000-9,000 mintage coins continue to command virtually no premium at all, it will be much more difficult to assign high premiums to the 2,250-5,000 coins in my view. One day, if and when these 6,000 -9,000 mintage platinum coins start to command meaningful premiums, the lower mintage coins will, IMHO, be potentially fantastic and valuable coins. Until then, keep an eye on the sub-9,000 mintage platinum coins that are currently available any day of the week for -0- premium to the highest mintage plat coins ever produced by the Mint.
Wondercoin
So...any thoughts on if and when Coin World will run with the "2008 Sets New Low Mintage Records!" story?
That might wake up some other collectors who don't live and breathe this stuff...like all of us!
So what do you mean by this statement? All plats are selling for a premium. The 1/4 ouncers are around $400 plus and that's for the bullion too. Platinum isn't anywhere near the $1600 level.
Wondercoin
Are these overpriced on ebay? I'm half asleep but wonder why they are not being snapped up..
<<when platinum coins with mintages of a scant 6,000 - 9,000 sell for no premium >>
Not to put words into anyone's mouth...but I think we're talking (dreaming) along the lines of a 1995-W Silver Eagle type of premium here!!!
<<when platinum coins with mintages of a scant 6,000 - 9,000 sell for no premium >>
Not to put words into anyone's mouth...but I think we're talking (dreaming) along the lines of a 1995-W Silver Eagle type of premium here!!!
<< <i>ttown: What I mean is no ADDITIONAL premium to the typical premium that ALL platinum coins fetch when being marketed as bullion platinum coins. Hope this helps.
Wondercoin >>
... that is an outright falsehood, as the key platinum dates are all selling for in excess of 100% over generic dates!
Wondercoin
I didn't realize that slabbed pieces in that mintage range were selling at roughly the same premiums as ungraded pieces. Is that what's being said, Mitch?
I've noticed that the common slabbed Plats have about the same premium as unslabbed Plats, but I didn't know that the phenomenon applied down into the 6,000 to 9,000 range.
I knew it would happen.
the platinums should be looked at as a SERIES....not as a group of individual coins.....once the market realizes the value of the 1997-2009 platinum series....then the value of one individual coin amongst the group is not material....they will all be substantial....
if one is looking for the lowest possible modern coin made....start looking over in the spouse series....no one cares about them....and becuase of that one day, low and behold the new modern KING will be a GIRL....
lol
gyros
Jmski52 - Exactly; in fact, in some cases the PR69DC coins are worth LESS now than the same raw coin in a govt. box. This is especially the case with Proof Gold coins today, but also similar for Proof Platinum. And, bear in mind that nearly 2/3 (or mor) of all Proof Platinum coins fall in the sub-10.000 mintage column. In other words, most platinum pieces.
Wondercoin
I doubt if any First Spouse gold coin will achieve a mintage of less than 2253, no matter how unpopular the series may become. Too many eyes are watching the week-to-week sales totals.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I think he is right on with his analysis.
It comes down to the size of the collecting base.
Nothing weeds out bullion collectors from the true coin collectors more than High Price in the spot market.
The W Unc Plats coins that survived the April 2008 "Spring Melt" when prices peaked are held by the collectors and I am afraid the true size of collecting base for the W Unc Plat series is probably comprised of a lot less people than one might think.
When you combine the apparent waning support, (even lack of support) from the issuer (Mint), I am afraid the W Unc Plats Series as it matures, will be relegated to a specialized "Commerrative" type collector who's base membership gets smaller in number every year but will hold more coins tomorrow than they do today, i.e. a very concentrated number of collectors hold a large number of the coins.
<< <i>>>if one is looking for the lowest possible modern coin made....start looking over in the spouse series....no one cares about them....and becuase of that one day, low and behold the new modern KING will be a GIRL....<<
I doubt if any First Spouse gold coin will achieve a mintage of less than 2253, no matter how unpopular the series may become. Too many eyes are watching the week-to-week sales totals. >>
gyros
<< <i>Did you all catch the 2008 W plat PCGS MS70FS set that sold on Ebay for $8k - nearly $3K more than a non-FS set is bringing?? I just don't get why one would pay so much for a label that is literally meaningless. I understand that they do bring a premium, but nearly $3K??? Unreal. >>
I think the reason for this is that the only coins that qualified for FS were the ones purchased from the Mint at the initial Mint offering price when platinum spot was sky high. Hence this "cost of goods" factor seems to have been adjusted into the market price. The people who didn't make out are the ones who bought from the Mint at the high prices and didn't submit for FS.
True, the weekly info is not always reliable, but it tends to be most unreliable when there is a rush of orders as the Mint's inventory of a particular coin is being depleted. That's what happened with the 2006-W burnished plats. Reported sales were significantly higher than the final reported mintage, because many orders were accepted but later could not be fulfilled. For those of us who lived through the 2006 experience, 2008 looked like a rerun. Consequently, we were expecting the 2008 mintages to likewise come in much lower than reported sales, and we were vindicated in the end.
I think the Mint has adjusted the production runs of First Spouse coins to much lower levels than sales of the earlier issues, based on waning demand. This is probably why the 2008-W Jackson's Liberty coin sold out earlier than the normal 1-year ordering period for First Spouse coins. The same could happen with the Van Buren's Liberty, whose sales are due to end in a few weeks. In light of this situation I would expect the Mint to moderately increase its production of future Spouse issues to avoid further premature sellouts. I don't see any circumstance in which the Mint would set up a production run of less than 2,253 First Spouse coins.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
