Any official word yet on the proof Platinum design? We're less than a month away from the December launch, now. I'm still holding my breath for one of the allegorical designs. I just hate the PC mugs and the circle of hands!!!
I was fortunate to get one of those "Ugly Duckling" Jackies at time of issue. Being a baseball fan and a coin collector, my thought was there would be demand from both pools of potential buyers. I was surprised when there wasn't, but I'm happy now!!! Still, I won't bite on one of the PC plat designs - it's just the principle!
>>I was fortunate to get one of those "Ugly Duckling" Jackies at time of issue. Being a baseball fan and a coin collector, my thought was there would be demand from both pools of potential buyers. I was surprised when there wasn't, but I'm happy now!!!<<
There was a special Jackie Robinson set made for baseball fans. It included a proof $5 gold, a special baseball card and a few other souvenirs in an attractive wood box. I think about 10,000 were sold, which is over 40% of the total mintage of the proofs. Many (perhaps most) of these sets went to baseball fans and may be lost to the numismatic market for some time.
The Jackie Robinson is a good example of how set compositions can affect mintage. The proof was available in the baseball sets, the four-coin sets, the two-coin proof sets and as a single coin. The uncirculated was available only in the four-coin sets and as a single coin. Collectors bought mostly the four-coin sets (around 3500) and the proof sets. The single-coin option was relatively ignored - less than 1700 uncirculated single-coin Jackie gold $5 were bought during the ordering period. If the baseball set had contained an uncirculated coin instead of a proof coin, the mintage of the proof gold coin would have been much lower and the mintage of the uncirculated gold coin would have been much higher.
I notice APMEX is pre-selling the fractional 2009 AGE bullion coins. Anyone know when they first started offering these? The current prices (based on gold spot of $1089) are:
1/10 oz - 127.45 1/4 oz - 307.73 1/2 oz - 599.12
It would seem there is little risk in speculating on these.
crazy, we are all patiently waiting for those numbers, at this pace 2010 will come and go and no number "Government for ya". I hope 7/8 is correct with the low mintage plat, but it is not looking good...
Update! The Mint plans to end sales of the Van Buren's Liberty $10 gold (both proof and uncirculated) on December 3. Possibly earlier if the coins sell out before then.
<< <i>I notice APMEX is pre-selling the fractional 2009 AGE bullion coins. Anyone know when they first started offering these? The current prices (based on gold spot of $1089) are:
1/10 oz - 127.45 1/4 oz - 307.73 1/2 oz - 599.12
It would seem there is little risk in speculating on these. >>
Oct. 26 or 27. I purchased a roll of 1/10 @ $119.46 as soon as they became available ....
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Whats up with the report of 7,000 damaged proof 2009-W Buffalo $50's...........this could make for an interesting situation............
Even though we were at 2008-w Proof levels within a few days, even if they minted 09-W's to 08-W levels or slightly above, those 7,000 damaged coins could reduce amts substantially.....
Let's see sales this week - we'll know the answer soon enough....
I'm not in the camp that believes they are going to mint proof 09-W's to the hilt, but it will be easy to exceed 08-w levels.
I memtioned this before, but I placed an order at 12:11 for two buffaloes, and at 12:13 for one. Both orders quickly had their cancel box disappear. My first order was shipped on the 4th and I already have it. Nothing with the second one. Something is going on. With the Mint you never know.
<< <i>I notice APMEX is pre-selling the fractional 2009 AGE bullion coins. Anyone know when they first started offering these? The current prices (based on gold spot of $1089) are:
1/10 oz - 127.45 1/4 oz - 307.73 1/2 oz - 599.12
It would seem there is little risk in speculating on these. >>
Oct. 26 or 27. I purchased a roll of 1/10 @ $119.46 as soon as they became available .... >>
Before you buy, make sure you are comforatable with Apmex's statement about substituting non eagles in the event the eagles are not available.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
<< <i>I memtioned this before, but I placed an order at 12:11 for two buffaloes, and at 12:13 for one. Both orders quickly had their cancel box disappear. My first order was shipped on the 4th and I already have it. Nothing with the second one. Something is going on. With the Mint you never know.
The two I received are gorgeous. >>
My 12 purchased at 12:10 have still not shipped. Credit card is definitely good and has been pending for a quite a few days now.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
Thanks for posting! Are these the audited #s Eric? If so, it looks like: 1) '08 proof plats are definitely new KINGS--but maybe not by as much as anticipated. (Why couldn't the 1/2 be 3,999?) 2) 1/2-oz unc W plat is new KING of ALL the plats! 3) The Unc-w golds are CRRR-AAAA-ZEEE low. That 1/4-oz really stands out.
Very interesting. I guess we'll get to see how this info works it's way into the pricing on all of the 2008s. Thanks again! >>
From what others have noted about dispersion, flipping, etc... it wouldn't surprise me if '08 and '04 proof plats end up about even in the long run. Ditto with the '06 and '08 unc-w plats, but in this case because of melting on the '06s.
The gold unc-w eagles, though, ought to be a different story. If the collector base holds up at all, these are going to be some very sought-after issues.
So...I'm guessing its a good thing that I didn't toss all my 2008 UNC plats into the hopper earlier this year?!?
But in all seriousness...how do the final numbers compare with expectations? And, based on these numbers, what would you now expect to see these coins sell for?
And PS: a tip of the hat to 7over8 who has long been advocating the low mintage scenario for these since the beginning!
I think this is what all who have been following this thread from the beginning have been waiting for. I want to Publically Thank Eric for all the info that he has contributed here, and by our private discussions. Now let all the I told you so`s and and all the it ain`t gonna happen`s get started. I hope some of the posters like the taste of CROW, as they gonna have a lot of it to eat!!!!
Charles Crews ** CU Members that I have had Buy/sell deals with alohagary,dabigkahuna,goldman86,fivecents,endzone,clackamas,ericj96,Bochiman,Wingsrule,adriana,claychaser,holeinone1972,itsnotjustme,MJcoin,Kishul,jsego,TWQG,carlwolfort,jmski52,steelielee,grote15
In all truthfulness...this weekend, I was seriously considering selling some "excess" 2008 plat uncs to finance the purchase of some older gold coins...but didn't!
Gee...for a change I didn't sell low right before some good news...how refreshing!
I was expecting the low #'s from the plat proofs, but the uncs caught me by surprise. I still don't believe it. I see one sealed set on ebay for $3,988, which seems reasonable to me.
<- eagerly anticipating a post from 7over8. Speech, Speech.
<< <i>>>THE MARKET DOES NOT GET THE POINT THAT THE MINT IS NOT INTERESTED IN MESSING WITH LOW MINTAGE COINAGE ANYMORE!<<
With the First Spouse coins the Mint doesn't have any choice. >>
Well, that is a good point. These will be low AND interesting. Are there even 500 people collecting the entire series? I know that I'm not. Could be a smart play, though, if you can afford it.
<< <i>I was expecting the low #'s from the plat proofs, but the uncs caught me by surprise. I still don't believe it. I see one sealed set on ebay for $3,988, which seems reasonable to me. >>
Re the 2008 numbers...I've got to wonder if the Mint actually melted down everything that was returned as "damaged" under the old return policy ("This isn't a 70...it's garbage!)
I hope the numbers are accurate, since I have held my 08-W APEs.
I am comparing the latest numbers to the previously reported sales numbers from coinnet. 08-W APE Sales
I find some major differences in the latest numbers and the previously reported numbers:
1oz 2,876 vs (1,905 + 2,158 sets)= 4,063
1/2 oz 2,253 vs (1,257 + 2,158 sets) = 3,415
1/4 oz 2,481 vs (1,736 + 2,158 sets) = 3,894
1/10 oz 3,706 vs (2,465 + 2,158 sets) = 4,623
As you can see, there are major drops in the latest numbers versus the previously reported sales numbers. I hope these latest numbers are accurate, because my 08-W APEs will become very valuable.
Is 7/8 still sleeping? He should be rubbing our noses in this news right now.
So if you had some extra money right now, would you try getting more of the 2008 kings, or wait for the 2009 plat proof? I wonder when this news will hit the mainstream press.
This has been discussed before but it may be myoptic to look at the 3 years and try to pick "Kings" based solely on mintages.
All are low mintage and the difference in mintages between the lowest/highest/average mintage is small.
So small a difference that the Great Meltdown of 2008 likely had a meaningful impact on the 2006 and especially the 2007 numbers.
I think the 2007 issues were especially subject to melting as they represented a very quick flip for profit in spring of 2008 and the 2007 issues were never viewed as "Kings" so few of us showed much interest in their preservation.
Yes there are some mintage "Kings" but they stand only fractionally higher than the Princes.
<<This has been discussed before but it may be myoptic to look at the 3 years and try to pick "Kings" based solely on mintages.>>
But that's all the fun we have around here...calling each other stupid bums! All we need now is a beer keg and a pool table and we wouldn't have to go home at night!
Comments
2006
2007
2008 =20,000 ???
2009 on sale 29th Oct
thanks,
snman
<< <i>What does the 1oz proof Buff numbers look like?
2006=246,267
2007=58,998
2008=20,000 ???
2009 on sale 29th Oct
thanks,
snman >>
<< <i>
<< <i>What does the 1oz proof Buff numbers look like?
2006=246,267
2007=58,998
2008=20,000 ???
2009 on sale 29th Oct
thanks,
snman >>
>>
Thanks Eric!
2009 AMERICAN BUFFALO GOLD PROOF $50 COIN 19,468 AND SELLING
2009 AMERICAN BUFFALO GOLD MINT STATE $50 116,500 AND SELLING
Sales report as of 11/1/2009.
2008 was a good year.......
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
BTW they have the next spouse pics up.
<< <i> I'm still holding my breath for one of the allegorical designs. I just hate the PC mugs and the circle of hands!!! >>
Remember the story of the ugly duckling...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>
<< <i> I'm still holding my breath for one of the allegorical designs. I just hate the PC mugs and the circle of hands!!! >>
Remember the story of the ugly duckling...
Yes, I bought an MS70 Jackie Unc. at a Balto show last year - sure wish that I was into coins when they came out, would have saved me thousands :-(
There was a special Jackie Robinson set made for baseball fans. It included a proof $5 gold, a special baseball card and a few other souvenirs in an attractive wood box. I think about 10,000 were sold, which is over 40% of the total mintage of the proofs. Many (perhaps most) of these sets went to baseball fans and may be lost to the numismatic market for some time.
The Jackie Robinson is a good example of how set compositions can affect mintage. The proof was available in the baseball sets, the four-coin sets, the two-coin proof sets and as a single coin. The uncirculated was available only in the four-coin sets and as a single coin. Collectors bought mostly the four-coin sets (around 3500) and the proof sets. The single-coin option was relatively ignored - less than 1700 uncirculated single-coin Jackie gold $5 were bought during the ordering period. If the baseball set had contained an uncirculated coin instead of a proof coin, the mintage of the proof gold coin would have been much lower and the mintage of the uncirculated gold coin would have been much higher.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
1/10 oz - 127.45
1/4 oz - 307.73
1/2 oz - 599.12
It would seem there is little risk in speculating on these.
Still no final 2008 final Platinum, Gold Eagle & Buff mintage numbers from the Mint...correct?
Link
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I notice APMEX is pre-selling the fractional 2009 AGE bullion coins. Anyone know when they first started offering these? The current prices (based on gold spot of $1089) are:
1/10 oz - 127.45
1/4 oz - 307.73
1/2 oz - 599.12
It would seem there is little risk in speculating on these. >>
Oct. 26 or 27. I purchased a roll of 1/10 @ $119.46 as soon as they became available ....
Whats up with the report of 7,000 damaged proof 2009-W Buffalo $50's...........this could make for an interesting situation............
Even though we were at 2008-w Proof levels within a few days, even if they minted 09-W's to 08-W levels or slightly above, those 7,000 damaged coins could reduce amts substantially.....
Let's see sales this week - we'll know the answer soon enough....
I'm not in the camp that believes they are going to mint proof 09-W's to the hilt, but it will be easy to exceed 08-w levels.
The two I received are gorgeous.
<< <i>
<< <i>I notice APMEX is pre-selling the fractional 2009 AGE bullion coins. Anyone know when they first started offering these? The current prices (based on gold spot of $1089) are:
1/10 oz - 127.45
1/4 oz - 307.73
1/2 oz - 599.12
It would seem there is little risk in speculating on these. >>
Oct. 26 or 27. I purchased a roll of 1/10 @ $119.46 as soon as they became available .... >>
Before you buy, make sure you are comforatable with Apmex's statement about substituting non eagles in the event the eagles are not available.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
<< <i>I memtioned this before, but I placed an order at 12:11 for two buffaloes, and at 12:13 for one. Both orders quickly had their cancel box disappear. My first order was shipped on the 4th and I already have it. Nothing with the second one. Something is going on. With the Mint you never know.
The two I received are gorgeous. >>
My 12 purchased at 12:10 have still not shipped. Credit card is definitely good and has been pending for a quite a few days now.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
Platinum
Proof
1 0.5 0.25 0.1
4769 4020 4153 5138
MS-w
2876 2253 2481 3706
Gold
Proof
30237 22602 18877 28116
Unc-w
11908 15682 8883 12657
<< <i>Final Finals for 2008
Platinum
Proof
1 0.5 0.25 0.1
4769 4020 4153 5138
MS-w
2876 2253 2481 3706
Gold
Proof
30237 22602 18877 28116
Unc-w
11908 15682 8883 12657 >>
Thanks for posting! Are these the audited #s Eric? If so, it looks like:
1) '08 proof plats are definitely new KINGS--but maybe not by as much as anticipated. (Why couldn't the 1/2 be 3,999?)
2) 1/2-oz unc W plat is new KING of ALL the plats!
3) The Unc-w golds are CRRR-AAAA-ZEEE low. That 1/4-oz really stands out.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
1OZ - 4769 (2008) - 6007 (2004)
.5OZ - 4020 (2008) - 5063 (2004)
.25OZ - 4153 (2008) - 5193 (2004)
.1OZ - 5138 (2008) - 7161 (2004)
1OZ - 21% lower than 2004
.5OZ - 21% lower than 2004
.25OZ - 20% lower than 2004
.1OZ - 28% lower than 2004
1/2oz = 0
1/4oz = 0
1/10oz = 0
on a serious note Eric, where do you see the 2009 1oz Platinum Proof?
thanks,
snman
Very interesting. I guess we'll get to see how this info works it's way into the pricing on all of the 2008s. Thanks again!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Eric - thank you for the post!!!
Very interesting. I guess we'll get to see how this info works it's way into the pricing on all of the 2008s. Thanks again!
From what others have noted about dispersion, flipping, etc... it wouldn't surprise me if '08 and '04 proof plats end up about even in the long run. Ditto with the '06 and '08 unc-w plats, but in this case because of melting on the '06s.
The gold unc-w eagles, though, ought to be a different story. If the collector base holds up at all, these are going to be some very sought-after issues.
Let the games begin (or continue)!
THE MARKET DOES NOT GET THE POINT THAT THE MINT IS NOT INTERESTED IN MESSING WITH LOW MINTAGE COINAGE ANYMORE!
There will be a good modern here and there but by and large the killers are in the past.
Eric
So...I'm guessing its a good thing that I didn't toss all my 2008 UNC plats into the hopper earlier this year?!?
But in all seriousness...how do the final numbers compare with expectations? And, based on these numbers, what would you now expect to see these coins sell for?
And PS: a tip of the hat to 7over8 who has long been advocating the low mintage scenario for these since the beginning!
Now let all the I told you so`s and and all the it ain`t gonna happen`s get started. I hope some of the posters like the taste of CROW, as they gonna have a lot of it to eat!!!!
Gee...for a change I didn't sell low right before some good news...how refreshing!
With the First Spouse coins the Mint doesn't have any choice.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<- eagerly anticipating a post from 7over8. Speech, Speech.
Also, were there any changes to the reported mintages of the 2008-W Buffalo uncs. and proofs?
Thanks.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>>>THE MARKET DOES NOT GET THE POINT THAT THE MINT IS NOT INTERESTED IN MESSING WITH LOW MINTAGE COINAGE ANYMORE!<<
With the First Spouse coins the Mint doesn't have any choice.
Well, that is a good point. These will be low AND interesting. Are there even 500 people collecting the entire series? I know that I'm not. Could be a smart play, though, if you can afford it.
<< <i>I was expecting the low #'s from the plat proofs, but the uncs caught me by surprise. I still don't believe it. I see one sealed set on ebay for $3,988, which seems reasonable to me. >>
Price just raised to $4,488.00
<< <i>>>THE MARKET DOES NOT GET THE POINT THAT THE MINT IS NOT INTERESTED IN MESSING WITH LOW MINTAGE COINAGE ANYMORE!<<
With the First Spouse coins the Mint doesn't have any choice.
Yes, they have the law and more fearfully, they have political correctness over their heads on these.
$100 $50 $25 $10 Total
2006 3086 2577 2676 3544 11,883
2007 4425 3930 3900 5783 18,038
2008 2876 2253 2481 3706 9,489
FloridaBill
Re the 2008 numbers...I've got to wonder if the Mint actually melted down everything that was returned as "damaged" under the old return policy ("This isn't a 70...it's garbage!)
If so, nice work everyone!!!
I hope the numbers are accurate, since I have held my 08-W APEs.
I am comparing the latest numbers to the previously reported sales numbers from coinnet.
08-W APE Sales
I find some major differences in the latest numbers and the previously reported numbers:
1oz 2,876 vs (1,905 + 2,158 sets)= 4,063
1/2 oz 2,253 vs (1,257 + 2,158 sets) = 3,415
1/4 oz 2,481 vs (1,736 + 2,158 sets) = 3,894
1/10 oz 3,706 vs (2,465 + 2,158 sets) = 4,623
As you can see, there are major drops in the latest numbers versus the previously reported sales numbers.
I hope these latest numbers are accurate, because my 08-W APEs will become very valuable.
So if you had some extra money right now, would you try getting more of the 2008 kings, or wait for the 2009 plat proof? I wonder when this news will hit the mainstream press.
2008-W APE Proof (Latest numbers versus previously reported sales):
1oz 4,769 vs (2,432+2,598 sets) = 5,030
1/2 oz 4,020 vs (1,056+2,598 sets) = 3,654
1/4 oz 4,153 vs (1,293+2,598 sets) =3,891
1/10 oz 5,138 vs (3,052+2,598 sets) = 5,650
As you can see, some went up and some went down. Still very low numbers.
Thoughts...conjecture?
<< <i>2008W Unc Plats are definitely the King of the entire Plat series!
$100 $50 $25 $10 Total
2006 3086 2577 2676 3544 11,883
2007 4425 3930 3900 5783 18,038
2008 2876 2253 2481 3706 9,489
FloridaBill >>
This has been discussed before but it may be myoptic to look at the 3 years and try to pick "Kings" based solely on mintages.
All are low mintage and the difference in mintages between the lowest/highest/average mintage is small.
So small a difference that the Great Meltdown of 2008 likely had a meaningful impact on the 2006 and especially the 2007 numbers.
I think the 2007 issues were especially subject to melting as they represented a very quick flip for profit in spring of 2008 and the 2007 issues were never viewed as "Kings" so few of us showed much interest in their preservation.
Yes there are some mintage "Kings" but they stand only fractionally higher than the Princes.
<<This has been discussed before but it may be myoptic to look at the 3 years and try to pick "Kings" based solely on mintages.>>
But that's all the fun we have around here...calling each other stupid bums! All we need now is a beer keg and a pool table and we wouldn't have to go home at night!
$25 MS W BUFF 16,000+
$10 MS W BUFF 9949
$5 MS W BUFF 17471
<<$25 MS W BUFF 16,000+>>
<<$10 MS W BUFF 9949>>
<<$5 MS W BUFF 17471 >>
How did the actual Buff mintage numbers stack up against expectations?