It’s all about % returns. The Mint’s announcement of intentions is actually quite good. Half my"open-to-buy" money goes to APE Proofs and the other half goes to Buff Proofs….
Call it as you see it…That’s my call, and that’s where my $$$ are going…
I collect in NGC-70 slabs for the proofs. PCGS 70 for the changing reverse mint state plats. I do keep the OGP but I want the coins in my collection to be strong coins and to read 70 on the slab too........Although I make it a point to pay little to no mark up over raw prices in most cases. The crack out game works quite well.
Coinsponge, I quite agree that many posts here are related to selfserving interests and really can only expect such I suppose. Still a good thing to bring in a bit of levity and balance by reminding all of such. A small case of being in the lions' den of flippers you might say. A bit of useful information can be gleaned on occasion though, and not as bad as some of the grading posts or the infernal NT/AT thing where one might as well call them all NT and go to be peacefully no matter how contrived the coins are....
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
I vehemently disagree that any posts here are self-serving. Just because I would sell my Jefferson Liberty proof spouse coin for the VERY REASONABLE price of $1999 or my UHR for $2999 does NOT mean I am trying to take advantage of this forum for profit!
<< <i>I vehemently disagree that any posts here are self-serving. Just because I would sell my Jefferson Liberty proof spouse coin for the VERY REASONABLE price of $1999 or my UHR for $2999 does NOT mean I am trying to take advantage of this forum for profit! >>
WOW, are you setting a household limit? How much for Express shipping?
<< <i>I collect in NGC-70 slabs for the proofs. PCGS 70 for the changing reverse mint state plats. I do keep the OGP but I want the coins in my collection to be strong coins and to read 70 on the slab too........Although I make it a point to pay little to no mark up over raw prices in most cases. ] The crack out game works quite well. >>
Eric, are you saying that you crack out 69's and resubmit? Whats the ratio of upgrades to submissions? Is it different for NGC as opposed to PCGS? Thanks for an eye opening/interesting comment
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
The Mint’s announcement of intentions is actually quite good. Half my"open-to-buy" money goes to APE Proofs and the other half goes to Buff Proofs….
Hmmmmm..........another interesting situation, trying to figure out the Mint's moves and how best to take advantage of them.
The irony here is that they might make a coin with only 850 mintage, we would all buy it heavily, and then gold and platinum would zoom to $3,500 and destroy the premiums!!!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>A puzzling phenomenon in the current market:
The 2000-W uncirculated Library of Congress $10 gold/platinum commem (mintage 7261) has appreciated sharply in recent months, and has decisively overtaken the $5 Jackie Robinson uncirculated $5 gold (mintage 5174) as the most valuable modern commemorative coin.
Three of the four 1995-96 unc. Olympic gold $5 coins have likewise shown big gains. So has the 1997 FDR.
The 2008-W $25 unc. Gold Eagle is bringing a very large premium to melt, despite its relatively high mintage (due to its availability in a separate set, paired with a 2008-W unc. Buffalo $25).
What does all this say about the recession's impact on modern commems, and about future prospects for the recent low-mintage First Spouse and Platinum Eagle coins? >>
All of the LOC Uncs. that I seen on flea-bay completed auctions are for slabbed MS 70s. How has it been doing raw in OGP? I'm surprised that so many are slabbed and so few raw. Seems like the reverse of how I see it at most major shows.
My VanBuren Proof and Unc arrived today (glad I ordered a few weeks ago with the current prices). Both had some white junk inside the capsules :-( Both look like 70s (lucked out) so I gently opened the capsules and blew the white contaminants out with dust off. Have you all had the same problem?
These are, by far, my favorite of the Liberty's to date (and I have them all, Proof and Unc). Fantastic obverse - just love the seated Liberty.
I wonder if the VBs will come in with a lower mintage than the Jacksons?
I wonder if the VBs will come in with a lower mintage than the Jacksons?
With the price of gold continuing to rise, the associated mint price of the coins rising in tandem, and throwing in the economic state, it wouldn't surprise me if sales are less than the Jackson's...
I wonder if the VBs will come in with a lower mintage than the Jacksons?
I'm guessing mintages will be similar. The Jacksons appear to have sold out their run before the usual cutoff date. The Mint *might* have estimated low demand and produced a small number of coins accordingly, for both Jackson and Van Buren. If that's the case, I don't think they can (or will) strike additional Van Buren coins, since they are dated 2008.
I believe the 2009 Platinum Proof, should it actually happen, is very intriguing. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Mint will press XX,XXX platinum coins sometime in late November and will wait for sales numbers before minting more. If you factor in end of year downtime, proof die life, bureaucracy involved in deciding to increase production, shipping time/backlog at the end of the year, etc.; they'll have a small widow of time for producing more plats before the 1/1/2010 cutoff. Yes/No? These factors combined with: bad economy & high unemployment, credit in short supply, personal spending is down, Christmas spending will take away discretionary spending from the plats, ordering 12/1 will be too late for Christmas giving, lack of interest in plats, $1500+ price tag, sales of plats comes 2 months after the very popular and expensive Buffs, etc, etc. I could go on, but I think it's safe to say that the deck is stacked in our favor for the 2009 APE!
I predict this thread should be frantic for the next 3 months. Oh, how about those 2008 figures...
>>The mint did raise the prices on their website so looks like perhaps further low mintages for the spouse coins.<<
Calculating from the Numismatic News updates, it looks like last week's sales of the Van Buren Liberty gold $10 were 38 uncs. and 41 proofs. This followed the $25 per coin price rise from the previous week. Given the additional $25 price rise this week, it may take some time for the VB's to sell out, even if their mintages are comparable to mintages of the Jackson's Liberty $10 gold, now sold out.
<< <i>I believe the 2009 Platinum Proof, should it actually happen, is very intriguing. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Mint will press XX,XXX platinum coins sometime in late November and will wait for sales numbers before minting more. If you factor in end of year downtime, proof die life, bureaucracy involved in deciding to increase production, shipping time/backlog at the end of the year, etc.; they'll have a small widow of time for producing more plats before the 1/1/2010 cutoff. Yes/No? These factors combined with: bad economy & high unemployment, credit in short supply, personal spending is down, Christmas spending will take away discretionary spending from the plats, ordering 12/1 will be too late for Christmas giving, lack of interest in plats, $1500+ price tag, sales of plats comes 2 months after the very popular and expensive Buffs, etc, etc. I could go on, but I think it's safe to say that the deck is stacked in our favor for the 2009 APE!
I predict this thread should be frantic for the next 3 months. Oh, how about those 2008 figures... >>
Based on todays spot Plat price of $1,360+... the 1 oz proof would sell for $1,692 & the unc. $1,685 ... who knows what the price of Plat. will be in November. US Mint pricing guidelines for Plat & Gold
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
The first week sales for the buffalo gold bullion ounces was 50,500 from what someone claims elsewhere. If that is true then they may have many of these coins.
2006 337,012 2007 136,503 2008 214,058 2008 W 9427 2009 50,500 so far
The first week sales for the buffalo gold bullion ounces was 50,500 from what someone claims elsewhere. If that is true then they may have many of these coins.
Why be so obtuse? Who claims what where?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>The first week sales for the buffalo gold bullion ounces was 50,500 from what someone claims elsewhere. If that is true then they may have many of these coins.
These are the bullion coins sold by dealers, the proof come out at the end of the month. The dealers are already taking orders on the bullion buffaloes.
<< <i>These are the bullion coins sold by dealers, the proof come out at the end of the month. The dealers are already taking orders on the bullion buffaloes. >>
Just picked up another proof/unc set of Jackson Libs. on Ebay. With Bing+Ebay Bucks+ CC rewards they were only $50 each over current spouse issue price (still high due to high gold price). Just couldn't resist. I sure hope that these do well in time.
Now that the Lincoln sets are sold out, does everyone have thier 2009 W Gold Buff Proof $ ready???
<< <i>I see that spot price of platinum has risen to point where all of my proof and unc. APE purchases from fall of 2008 are now profitable even at melt!
IMO if spot platinum gets above $1600 (20% over current) we will start seeing a second wave of loss to the smelters. >>
I agree, but if it hits 1,600 anytime soon I think we will see higher prices very quickly. There is currently a world surplus of platinum, but there are still alot of supply problems. Any meaningful increase in industrial demand and prices could move quickly.
There have been alot of posts about melt vs. numismatic value of these coins at higher price levels. I think APEs are going to be a fun and interesting series over the next couple of decades.
IMO if spot platinum gets above $1600 (20% over current) we will start seeing a second wave of loss to the smelters.
I had the opportunity in St. Louis to buy (16) of the Unc. 1997 1/2 oz. Plats in PCGS MS-69 @ 775.00/ea. for the lot, or $800.00 for a single coin. A tad overpriced, since ebay sales for similar Plats are running around $725.00/ea.
They will be melt candidates when platinum reaches $1,600.00 in my opinion.
I think APEs are going to be a fun and interesting series over the next couple of decades.
I can't see how it would be otherwise. When platinum is running only 30% over the price of gold, and given the size of the gold market - I see investors spilling over into platinum and then discovering a very collectible series.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
It's probable that platinum proof 2008-w final numbers will be lower than 2004-w by a significant margin. I would expect that for the eighteen months after the numbers are made public, the value of the '04 will drop by 30-50%. Why isn't anyone selling now while prices are still inflated?
"Why isn't anyone selling now while prices are still inflated?"
I am still paying substantially more for 2004 Proof plats vs. 2008's. Yet, I get offered 2008's much more often than 2004's. Hopefully, I can buy more 2004's soon
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The value of the 2008 APE Proof set versus the 2004 APE Proof set has been the subject of considerable discussion in this thread and some other threads.
I just checked eBay and found there are very few (less than 3 sets) of either sets for sale and very few sets have sold in recent weeks. There have been very few sellers for either set.
Like many other collectors, I was alerted by this thread and was able to obtain several 2008 APE proof coins last year but am still looking to get some 2004 APE proof coins. I am hoping some come for sale at reasonable prices. With the prospect of the end of this series except for the 1 oz APE proof coin, either set may be difficult to obtain except at much higher prices.
I am looking forward to the 2009 APE Proof Coin but so far, awaiting information.
"Why isn't anyone selling now while prices are still inflated?"
Whoa, there! I wouldn't go so far as to call the 2004-W Proof prices inflated! I see sporadic selling on ebay, but no flood of them. When I bought my sets in early '05, I wasn't a member of the forum and there was virtually *no* info available on mintages from any source I could come up with. On top of that, the prices had been jacked up by the Mint by 30%-35%, making the purchasing decision pretty agonizing. The distribution on the 2004-Ws is widely dispersed. Most sellers are not selling duplicates. All of these factors tell me that the prices will remain sticky and if platinum moves up, expect these to move ahead of platinum. Just my opinion.
I am still paying substantially more for 2004 Proof plats vs. 2008's. Yet, I get offered 2008's much more often than 2004's. Hopefully, I can buy more 2004's soon
They are all GREAT coins!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Speculators and investors have admittedly bought the 2004-w because it was the eternal KING of the series. If it's dethroned, I would expect a noticeable shift to the 2008-w. The impact on the '04 will depend on the number of strong hands. Now, with 5-7K 2004-w APEs in each denomination and a liberal 1,000 strong hands, we should still see hundreds of 2004's come to the market in the next couple of years...yes?
I agree with that, and this one has been beat on before. Compared to 2008, the '04s appear to have better dispersion and are not held in as great a percentage by the flippers and speculators. In point of fact they have come down a bit but certainly less available than the '08s. Obviously IMO, but this seems to be the case especially as you watch ebay and other auctions...
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I think the 2004 proof coins remain king for a couple to few years, then 2008 will take over.
Just my 1/2 cent opinion. >>
I'd agree with this, too. A mintage difference of 2,000 is just huge when you're talking such low mintages. Even with the dispersion factor, I'd be surprised if the '08s don't eventually assume their rightful place on the throne!
can anyone save me a little time and post the current best known mintage figures for 2006-w through 2008-w burinished platinum coins in all denominations? Thanks. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
It’s all about % returns. The Mint’s announcement of intentions is actually quite good. Half my"open-to-buy" money goes to APE Proofs and the other half goes to Buff Proofs….
Call it as you see it…That’s my call, and that’s where my $$$ are going…
FloridaBill
Household limits could give us more of an indication......but then look at the UHR.......
Well, just Love coins, period.
I vehemently disagree that any posts here are self-serving. Just because I would sell my Jefferson Liberty proof spouse coin for the VERY REASONABLE price of $1999 or my UHR for $2999 does NOT mean I am trying to take advantage of this forum for profit!
<< <i>I vehemently disagree that any posts here are self-serving. Just because I would sell my Jefferson Liberty proof spouse coin for the VERY REASONABLE price of $1999 or my UHR for $2999 does NOT mean I am trying to take advantage of this forum for profit! >>
WOW, are you setting a household limit? How much for Express shipping?
<< <i>I collect in NGC-70 slabs for the proofs. PCGS 70 for the changing reverse mint state plats. I do keep the OGP but I want the coins in my collection to be strong coins and to read 70 on the slab too........Although I make it a point to pay little to no mark up over raw prices in most cases. ] The crack out game works quite well. >>
Eric, are you saying that you crack out 69's and resubmit? Whats the ratio of upgrades to submissions? Is it different for NGC as opposed to PCGS? Thanks for an eye opening/interesting comment
Hmmmmm..........another interesting situation, trying to figure out the Mint's moves and how best to take advantage of them.
The irony here is that they might make a coin with only 850 mintage, we would all buy it heavily, and then gold and platinum would zoom to $3,500 and destroy the premiums!!!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>A puzzling phenomenon in the current market:
The 2000-W uncirculated Library of Congress $10 gold/platinum commem (mintage 7261) has appreciated sharply in recent months, and has decisively overtaken the $5 Jackie Robinson uncirculated $5 gold (mintage 5174) as the most valuable modern commemorative coin.
Three of the four 1995-96 unc. Olympic gold $5 coins have likewise shown big gains. So has the 1997 FDR.
The 2008-W $25 unc. Gold Eagle is bringing a very large premium to melt, despite its relatively high mintage (due to its availability in a separate set, paired with a 2008-W unc. Buffalo $25).
What does all this say about the recession's impact on modern commems, and about future prospects for the recent low-mintage First Spouse and Platinum Eagle coins? >>
All of the LOC Uncs. that I seen on flea-bay completed auctions are for slabbed MS 70s. How has it been doing raw in OGP? I'm surprised that so many are slabbed and so few raw. Seems like the reverse of how I see it at most major shows.
These are, by far, my favorite of the Liberty's to date (and I have them all, Proof and Unc). Fantastic obverse - just love the seated Liberty.
I wonder if the VBs will come in with a lower mintage than the Jacksons?
With the price of gold continuing to rise, the associated mint price of the coins rising in tandem, and throwing in the economic state, it wouldn't surprise me if sales are less than the Jackson's...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I'm guessing mintages will be similar. The Jacksons appear to have sold out their run before the usual cutoff date. The Mint *might* have estimated low demand and produced a small number of coins accordingly, for both Jackson and Van Buren. If that's the case, I don't think they can (or will) strike additional Van Buren coins, since they are dated 2008.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The mint did raise the prices on their website so looks like perhaps further low mintages for the spouse coins.
how long do you think these will be on sale for? what's the latest info? thanks
I predict this thread should be frantic for the next 3 months. Oh, how about those 2008 figures...
I'm betting it will press X,XXX Platinum Eagles, which according to my calculation is *way* lower than XX,XXX!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Calculating from the Numismatic News updates, it looks like last week's sales of the Van Buren Liberty gold $10 were 38 uncs. and 41 proofs. This followed the $25 per coin price rise from the previous week. Given the additional $25 price rise this week, it may take some time for the VB's to sell out, even if their mintages are comparable to mintages of the Jackson's Liberty $10 gold, now sold out.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I believe the 2009 Platinum Proof, should it actually happen, is very intriguing. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Mint will press XX,XXX platinum coins sometime in late November and will wait for sales numbers before minting more. If you factor in end of year downtime, proof die life, bureaucracy involved in deciding to increase production, shipping time/backlog at the end of the year, etc.; they'll have a small widow of time for producing more plats before the 1/1/2010 cutoff. Yes/No? These factors combined with: bad economy & high unemployment, credit in short supply, personal spending is down, Christmas spending will take away discretionary spending from the plats, ordering 12/1 will be too late for Christmas giving, lack of interest in plats, $1500+ price tag, sales of plats comes 2 months after the very popular and expensive Buffs, etc, etc. I could go on, but I think it's safe to say that the deck is stacked in our favor for the 2009 APE!
I predict this thread should be frantic for the next 3 months. Oh, how about those 2008 figures...
Great post!!
Miles
2006 337,012
2007 136,503
2008 214,058
2008 W 9427
2009 50,500 so far
Why be so obtuse? Who claims what where?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The first week sales for the buffalo gold bullion ounces was 50,500 from what someone claims elsewhere. If that is true then they may have many of these coins.
Why be so obtuse? Who claims what where? >>
The US MINT that's who...
US Mint Buffalo production figures
The US MINT that's who...
Now, THAT's the last place I'd have thought to ask about Mint production!!!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Does anyone has an idea about when we will see the final audited numbers for 2008? >>
Nobody knows...next six months, maybe???
2006 337,012
2007 136,503
2008 214,058
2008 W 9427
2009 71,500 so far
<< <i>Buffalo ounce sales up to 71,500 for 2009. So much for a low mintage.
2006 337,012
2007 136,503
2008 214,058
2008 W 9427
2009 71,500 so far >>
Ok I am lost, I thought that the buffalo do not go on sale until late October. How can there be sales?
<< <i>These are the bullion coins sold by dealers, the proof come out at the end of the month. The dealers are already taking orders on the bullion buffaloes. >>
Thanks for the explanation!
Now that the Lincoln sets are sold out, does everyone have thier 2009 W Gold Buff Proof $ ready???
IMO if spot platinum gets above $1600 (20% over current) we will start seeing a second wave of loss to the smelters.
<< <i>I see that spot price of platinum has risen to point where all of my proof and unc. APE purchases from fall of 2008 are now profitable even at melt!
IMO if spot platinum gets above $1600 (20% over current) we will start seeing a second wave of loss to the smelters. >>
I agree, but if it hits 1,600 anytime soon I think we will see higher prices very quickly. There is currently a world surplus of platinum, but there are still alot of supply problems. Any meaningful increase in industrial demand and prices could move quickly.
There have been alot of posts about melt vs. numismatic value of these coins at higher price levels. I think APEs are going to be a fun and interesting series over the next couple of decades.
I had the opportunity in St. Louis to buy (16) of the Unc. 1997 1/2 oz. Plats in PCGS MS-69 @ 775.00/ea. for the lot, or $800.00 for a single coin. A tad overpriced, since ebay sales for similar Plats are running around $725.00/ea.
They will be melt candidates when platinum reaches $1,600.00 in my opinion.
I think APEs are going to be a fun and interesting series over the next couple of decades.
I can't see how it would be otherwise. When platinum is running only 30% over the price of gold, and given the size of the gold market - I see investors spilling over into platinum and then discovering a very collectible series.
I knew it would happen.
I am still paying substantially more for 2004 Proof plats vs. 2008's. Yet, I get offered 2008's much more often than 2004's. Hopefully, I can buy more 2004's soon
Wondercoin
The value of the 2008 APE Proof set versus the 2004 APE Proof set has been the subject of considerable discussion in this thread and some other threads.
I just checked eBay and found there are very few (less than 3 sets) of either sets for sale and very few sets have sold in recent weeks. There have been very few sellers for either set.
Like many other collectors, I was alerted by this thread and was able to obtain several 2008 APE proof coins last year but am still looking to get some 2004 APE proof coins. I am hoping some come for sale at reasonable prices. With the prospect of the end of this series except for the 1 oz APE proof coin, either set may be difficult to obtain except at much higher prices.
I am looking forward to the 2009 APE Proof Coin but so far, awaiting information.
Whoa, there! I wouldn't go so far as to call the 2004-W Proof prices inflated! I see sporadic selling on ebay, but no flood of them. When I bought my sets in early '05, I wasn't a member of the forum and there was virtually *no* info available on mintages from any source I could come up with. On top of that, the prices had been jacked up by the Mint by 30%-35%, making the purchasing decision pretty agonizing. The distribution on the 2004-Ws is widely dispersed. Most sellers are not selling duplicates. All of these factors tell me that the prices will remain sticky and if platinum moves up, expect these to move ahead of platinum. Just my opinion.
I am still paying substantially more for 2004 Proof plats vs. 2008's. Yet, I get offered 2008's much more often than 2004's. Hopefully, I can buy more 2004's soon
They are all GREAT coins!
I knew it would happen.
2006 337,012
2007 136,503
2008 214,058
2008 W 9427
2009 79,500 so far
You heard it hear first.
Just my 2 cents of course.
Wondercoin
Well, just Love coins, period.
Just my 1/2 cent opinion.
<< <i>I think the 2004 proof coins remain king for a couple to few years, then 2008 will take over.
Just my 1/2 cent opinion.
I'd agree with this, too. A mintage difference of 2,000 is just huge when you're talking such low mintages. Even with the dispersion factor, I'd be surprised if the '08s don't eventually assume their rightful place on the throne!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
