<< <i>Same can be said for most of the top players from the current Patriots dynasty. Will be interesting to see how the voters treat those Patriot players like Law, Bruschi, Seymour, Rodney Harrison...
Jason >>
Great point Jason. Will be very interesting to see.
1. Paul Krause+ 81 1964-1979 2TM 2. Emlen Tunnell+ 79 1948-1961 2TM 3. Rod Woodson+ 71 1987-2003 4TM 4. Night Train Lane+ 68 1952-1965 3TM 5. Ken Riley 65 1969-1983 cin 6. Ronnie Lott+ 63 1981-1994 3TM 7. Dick LeBeau 62 1959-1972 det Dave Brown 62 1975-1989 3TM 9. Darren Sharper (33) 59 1997-2009 3TM 10. Emmitt Thomas+ 58 1966-1978 kan
It's funny this came up, I just submitted a set request for the NFL All-Time Interception Leaders and Sharper is way up on the list as you can see. I set the cut-off at 50 career interceptions for inclusion to the set. Here's the checklist:
NFL ALL-TIME INTERCEPTION LEADERS
CARD NO. ITEM NAME GRADE WEIGHT 91 1951 Bowman Emlen Tunnell 9.00 98 1952 Bowman Large/Small Bobby Dillon 6.00 140 1952 Bowman Large/Small Yale Lary 10.00 15 1957 Topps Jack Butler 2.00 83 1957 Topps Jimmy Patton 2.00 85 1957 Topps Dick Lane 9.00 59 1959 Topps Don Burroughs 1.50 202 1961 Fleer Johnny Robinson 2.00 11 1963 Topps Bob Boyd 1.50 155 1963 Topps Larry Wilson 3.00 53 1965 Philadelphia Mel Renfro 7.00 64 1965 Philadelphia Dick LeBeau 1.50 160 1965 Philadelphia Pat Fischer 1.50 189 1965 Philadelphia Paul Krause 3.00 46 1965 Topps Willie Brown 8.00 75 1970 Topps Lem Barney 1.50 157 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas 2.00 171 1973 Topps Ken Riley 1.00 298 1973 Topps Bobby Bryant 1.00 12 1975 Topps Mel Blount 1.50 411 1979 Topps Donnie Shell 1.00 317 1980 Topps Dave Brown 1.00 246 1982 Topps John Harris 1.00 327 1982 Topps Everson Walls 1.00 486 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott 1.50 89 1984 Topps Deron Cherry 1.00 380 1984 Topps Darrell Green 1.00 401 1989 Pro Set Eugene Robinson 1.00 78 1989 Score Rod Woodson 1.00 246 1989 Score Deion Sanders 1.00 380S 1989 Score Supplemental Eric Allen 1.00 94T 1991 Score Supplemental Aeneas Williams 1.00 493 1992 Stadium Club Terrell Buckley 1.00 174 1995 SP Ty Law 1.00 59 1997 Playoff Contenders Darren Sharper 1.00
I also submitted one for the career sack leaders. If anyone wants to see that checklist let me know.
1. Paul Krause+ 81 1964-1979 2TM 2. Emlen Tunnell+ 79 1948-1961 2TM 3. Rod Woodson+ 71 1987-2003 4TM 4. Night Train Lane+ 68 1952-1965 3TM 5. Ken Riley 65 1969-1983 cin 6. Ronnie Lott+ 63 1981-1994 3TM 7. Dick LeBeau 62 1959-1972 det Dave Brown 62 1975-1989 3TM 9. Darren Sharper (33) 59 1997-2009 3TM 10. Emmitt Thomas+ 58 1966-1978 kan
>>
I think the funny thing about the INT leaders (and the sack leaders as well) is that these numbers do not particularly translate into HOF worthiness. Ken Riley and Dave Brown will never make the HOF. Emmitt Thomas was never a finalist as a modern candidate and just recently got in as a Senior. Same for LeBeau who's finally up this year, and probably wouldn't be if he weren't so highly regarded as an assistant coach.
It even took Paul Krause 14 years to get in, and he retired the all-time leader in INTs...
Tom, which sack list are you using? The All-Time leaders since 1982, or the all-time unofficial sack leaders (which would contain Decon Jones for example)?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Since there seems to be a rush to add a new set for everything to the football registry lately, how about some of these ideas..lol
All-Time Fumblers: 1. Warren Moon+ 161 2. Brett Favre (39) 157 3. Dave Krieg 153 4. John Elway+ 137 5. Kerry Collins (36) 130 6. Boomer Esiason 123 7. Drew Bledsoe 123 8. Vinny Testaverde 116 9. Dan Marino+ 110 10. Dan Fouts+ 106
All-Time Extra Point %:
1. Rian Lindell (31) 100.000% 2. Nick Folk (24) 100.000% 3. Paul Edinger 100.000% 4. Tommy Brooker 100.000% 5. Nate Kaeding (26) 99.625% 6. Josh Brown (29) 99.598% 7. Mike Vanderjagt 99.472% 8. Matt Stover 99.465% 9. Tommy Davis 99.429% 10. Stephen Gostkowski (24) 99.425%
All-Time Mr. Irrelavent Draft Picks:
2009 Ryan Succop Chiefs K 2008 David Vobora Rams OLB 2007 Ramzee Robinson Lions CB 2006 Kevin McMahan Raiders WR 2005 Andy Stokes Patriots TE 2004 Andre Sommersell Raiders LB 2003 Ryan Hoag Raiders WR 2002 Ahmad Miller Texans DT 2001 Tevita Ofahengaue Cardinals TE 2000 Michael Green Bears DB
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Tom, which sack list are you using? The All-Time leaders since 1982, or the all-time unofficial sack leaders (which would contain Decon Jones for example)? >>
The offical one since 1982. I have never seen the unofficial one, but I would like to get a look at it.
I know some of the sets I requested don't tie into the HOF RC set, but that's not why I requested them. I like collecting some of the obscure cards, but I would say that most of the cards in the sets I requested are in one of the key card sets or one of the Hall of Fame sets. If it's a newer card, who knows what will happen in the future, but I try and put cards in the checklists that would cross over to the other sets if that player had a great career.
<< <i>Tom, which sack list are you using? The All-Time leaders since 1982, or the all-time unofficial sack leaders (which would contain Decon Jones for example)? >>
The offical one since 1982. I have never seen the unofficial one, but I would like to get a look at it.
Tom >>
It's posted somewhere in this thread...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Well Jason, considering you just had the 6000th post a little while ago, I might look on the internet first, lol. >>
Yeah, that's why I didn't try to page back to find it...lol
I have the stats in my database, but out of town on business at the moment. If you can't find it by this weekend, I'll throw it back up. The research into it was done by John Turney. That should help you find it.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Found it. I will keep looking and see if I can find a list that takes it down to 100 career sacks. That was the cutoff point for my set.
NFL SACK LIST
Rk. Player Sacks
1. Bruce Smith 200 2. Reggie White 198 3. Kevin Greene 160 4. Chris Doleman 150½ 5. Michael Strahan 141½ 6. Richard Dent 137½ 6. John Randle 137½ 8. Leslie O'Neal 132½ 8. Lawrence Taylor 132½ 10 Rickey Jackson 128 11 Derrick Thomas 126½ 12 Simeon Rice 122 13 Clyde Simmons 121½ 14 Jason Taylor 120½ 15 Sean Jones 113
TURNEY SACK LIST
Rk. Player Sacks
1. Bruce Smith 200 2. Reggie White 198 3. Deacon Jones 173½ 4. Kevin Greene 160 5. Jack Youngblood 151½ 6. Chris Doleman 150½ 7. Alan Page 148½ 8. Lawrence Taylor 142 9. Michael Strahan 141½ 10. Richard Dent 137½ 10. John Randle 137½ 12. Rickey Jackson 136 13. Carl Eller 133 14. Leslie O'Neal 132½ 15. Coy Bacon 130
<< <i>Found it. I will keep looking and see if I can find a list that takes it down to 100 career sacks. That was the cutoff point for my set.
TURNEY SACK LIST
Rk. Player Sacks
1. Bruce Smith 200 2. Reggie White 198 3. Deacon Jones 173½ 4. Kevin Greene 160 5. Jack Youngblood 151½ 6. Chris Doleman 150½ 7. Alan Page 148½ 8. Lawrence Taylor 142 9. Michael Strahan 141½ 10. Richard Dent 137½ 10. John Randle 137½ 12. Rickey Jackson 136 13. Carl Eller 133 14. Leslie O'Neal 132½ 15. Coy Bacon 130 >>
<< <i>Since there seems to be a rush to add a new set for everything to the football registry lately, how about some of these ideas..lol
All-Time Fumblers: 1. Warren Moon+ 161 2. Brett Favre (39) 157 3. Dave Krieg 153 4. John Elway+ 137 5. Kerry Collins (36) 130 6. Boomer Esiason 123 7. Drew Bledsoe 123 8. Vinny Testaverde 116 9. Dan Marino+ 110 10. Dan Fouts+ 106
All-Time Extra Point %:
1. Rian Lindell (31) 100.000% 2. Nick Folk (24) 100.000% 3. Paul Edinger 100.000% 4. Tommy Brooker 100.000% 5. Nate Kaeding (26) 99.625% 6. Josh Brown (29) 99.598% 7. Mike Vanderjagt 99.472% 8. Matt Stover 99.465% 9. Tommy Davis 99.429% 10. Stephen Gostkowski (24) 99.425%
All-Time Mr. Irrelavent Draft Picks:
2009 Ryan Succop Chiefs K 2008 David Vobora Rams OLB 2007 Ramzee Robinson Lions CB 2006 Kevin McMahan Raiders WR 2005 Andy Stokes Patriots TE 2004 Andre Sommersell Raiders LB 2003 Ryan Hoag Raiders WR 2002 Ahmad Miller Texans DT 2001 Tevita Ofahengaue Cardinals TE 2000 Michael Green Bears DB
Jason >>
jason,
i generally agree you with on the excessive amount of certain types of sets. but then again you can get more free grades!!! that would be the only reason in my mind to start some of these extras.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
i generally agree you with on the excessive amount of certain types of sets. but then again you can get more free grades!!! that would be the only reason in my mind to start some of these extras. >>
That was my assumption at first, but some of these new sets have so many obscure ,essentially valueless cards. Realitically, there are many that no one outside of those collecting the particular set would be interested in...Getting to 90% in order to receive a free grading will end up being way more costly than simply paying for the "free" card to be graded.
Take the INT and Sack sets as examples. Keep in mind, that these are much smaller and have far less fringe cards than say the upcoming #1 draft pick set or the AP Comeback Player of the Year set. But even here, the INT set, you'll need 32 of the 35 cards to earn a free grading. To include: 1973 Topps Bobby Bryant, 1980 Topps Dave Brown , 1982 Topps John Harris, 1989 Pro Set Eugene Robinson, 1992 Stadium Club Terrell Buckley....You'll need at least 2 of these, and you'll pay more in grading fees on them than the card will ever be worth.
The Sack set: You'll need 22 of the 24 to get a free grading. To include these commons: 1985 USFL William Fuller, 1987 Topps Sean Jones, 1987 Topps Leslie O' Neal, 1989 Score Supp. Trace Armstrong, 1995 SP Kevin Carter....
Look, I'm not out to dog anyone who wants to submit or request a set to the Registry. It's a free country, so do what you want. But IMO, it's becoming overkill to the point where it will devalue some of the more popular key card type sets. I guess I just don't understand the lure of wanting to collect massive amounts of $5 (in PSA 10 mind you) cards of guys who will never be a HOFer and who's cards will never hold any value. A few here and there, sure. Maybe your a fan of a specific team or player you want to collect. But how many sets do we need like this that are just conglomerations of players/teams and sets plugged into a rehashed/reworked key card checklist?
Kinda like the HOF. You can make in exclusive or inclusive. The more inclusive these sets become, in number and in size, the more watered down the Football Key card Registry is going to become. Will be interesting to see how many really chase these sets to try and complete them.
Some examples: Ohio State University All-Time Greatest Rookies- set has been live since at least Feb 09. 4 collectors registered, 0 over 50% completion. University of Illinois All-Time Greatest Rookies - set has been live since at least Mar 08. 1 collector registered, and to his credit he's at 97%.
I won't even start on the autograph sets that so clog the key card and HOF registries now. PSA needs to have a separate catagory listing for autographed sets. There are more sets listed than there are collectors registered to them...lol
Just my opinion here, please don't take offense, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
NFL All-Time #1 Draft Picks Football NFL AP Offensive Rookies Of The Year Football NFL AP Defensive Rookies Of The Year Football NFL AP MVP Award Football NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year Football NFL AP Defensive Player of the Year Football NFL AP Comeback Player of The Year Award Football NFL Annual Rushing Leaders NFL All-Time Sack Leaders Football NFL All-Time Interception Leaders Football
Posting this to illustrate my point...Where does it end?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm submitting a request for the NFL All Time Convicted Felon Set and may also add the NFL Player of the Year Arrest Leader Set. >>
Wow, those could be large 100 card+ sets already...lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thank you for the kind words. Really appreciate the opportunity to help. I remember when I started Jason, Craig and Dan were the most helpful. Always considered the comraderie to be more important than anything else including the friendly competition.
MAD
Have shine box will travel ------------ BOBBY ORR THE BEST THERE WAS! THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE! ------------
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith >>
Yeah, count me in the exclusivity camp as well. With the HOF and also with the Registry sets. The are both treated in similar fashion, in that when cards or players are added to the existing, there is a vote that takes place, and the majority decides. With new sets however, there is no vote. There is no query. There is nothing to gauge the need or desire of these new sets. All it takes is one collector with three cards to request it. I guess on the bright side, most of the these new/upcoming sets are cut and dry as to the checklist. There is no debate on who belongs or who doesn't, as they are based on specific awards or specific numbers reached. I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Playing off Keith's point here. If you could remove anyone from the HOF who would it be? And how many are already there who are barderline/questionable selections? Here's my list:
Elvin Bethea Bob (Boomer) Brown Nick Buoniconti Tony Canadeo Jimmy Conzelman Al Davis Fred Dean Joe DeLamielleure Weeb Ewbank Jim Finks Ray Flaherty Benny Friedman Frank Gatski Joe Guyon Dan Hampton Bob Hayes John Henry Johnson Charlie Joiner Leroy Kelly Alphonse (Tuffy) Leemans Tom Mack Tim Mara John (Blood) McNally Wayne Millner George Musso Fritz Pollard Hugh (Shorty) Ray Charlie Sanders Bob St. Clair Emmitt Thomas Charley Trippi Doak Walker Roger Wehrli Arnie Weinmeister Rayfield Wright
That's 35 I would knock off without question.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith >>
Yeah, count me in the exclusivity camp as well. With the HOF and also with the Registry sets. The are both treated in similar fashion, in that when cards or players are added to the existing, there is a vote that takes place, and the majority decides. With new sets however, there is no vote. There is no query. There is nothing to gauge the need or desire of these new sets. All it takes is one collector with three cards to request it. I guess on the bright side, most of the these new/upcoming sets are cut and dry as to the checklist. There is no debate on who belongs or who doesn't, as they are based on specific awards or specific numbers reached. I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them.
Jason >>
The only problem is that the set registry wasnt designed to be setup in the manner that you would prefer. Based on your requirement that at least 5 collectors at a minimum of 25% there are many sets that would be eliminated. The highest percentage wouldnt be the all time sets that you would prefer, it would be smaller less collected company type sets. Not to mention sometimes it takes a little time for people to get on board.
I remember when the two of us and some others had discussed whom to add the all time Packer sets. You are adamant in that it is only HOF-type players. While some of us that are Packer fans wanted to see more included. So we started the Packer HOF set. This set is about 180 degrees from your collecting focus and I am sure did not approve of its inclusion in the registry. Based on your requirement that at least 5 collectors be at 25% or higher with in 6 months or a year we would have been removed. Well after a year passed we got more sets and now are up to 10, which is rough 10% of the Pro HOF Rookie set. We now have 6 over your 25% mark but we would never have got that far with your time limit. I am not sure how long it took for the Rookie HOF set to get to the 5 collectors over 25% number but I assume that it probably would have made it.
I do agree that there are cases to be made for the Collectors Showcase. That is where I have some sets as well, that wouldnt fit.
I have about 10 company sets that would fit your exclusion list. The problem for PSA is then why would someone ever submit some of those cards for grading. The set registry has done wonders for increasing their submission I would think. They would be kind of killing the goose that lays the golden egg.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Speaking of strength of HOF'ers.........I wish there was a rule that if after a player was eligible 5 times, and they didn't make it, they would forever be barred from the HOF. This would keep the HOF the cream of the crop. I mean, If a player wasn't good enough to make it in 5 years, then what would make them HOFer? They are not doing anything on the field to improve their chances. I would also get rid of the Sr. Players. Its my opinion that if you weren't good enough to be enshrined when you first became eligible, you don't belong.
Dave, What about the players who played before the hall was around. There would be no way to include some great players. Would Don Hutson be included following that rule? I think we all have our own opinions about who gets in and how, but it is still better than any of the other sports HOF's. Whenever a new class is announced I get really excited about the prospect of having to get new cards (my wife hates super bowl weekend for this reason).New players also means the prospect that someone else will stumble onto the set registry and start collecting these cards. Ultimately that is what our hobby needs.So many have quit the hobby b/c they have no connection to the players or teams, but just maybe they will remember one of those players and it could spark the fire to start collecting again.
Thats a good point but I'm thinking about the current selection process. The HOF has been around for nearly 50 years now. I have to think that any worthy player (Pre 1960's) would have already made it in by now. Can someone really be overlooked for that long and now, all of sudden, get elected? Its just my opinion but I think that every Sr. nominee that gets selected does not belong. It just waters it down for me.
1. Paul Krause+ 81 1964-1979 2TM 2. Emlen Tunnell+ 79 1948-1961 2TM 3. Rod Woodson+ 71 1987-2003 4TM 4. Night Train Lane+ 68 1952-1965 3TM 5. Ken Riley 65 1969-1983 cin 6. Ronnie Lott+ 63 1981-1994 3TM 7. Dick LeBeau 62 1959-1972 det Dave Brown 62 1975-1989 3TM 9. Darren Sharper (33) 59 1997-2009 3TM 10. Emmitt Thomas+ 58 1966-1978 kan
It's funny this came up, I just submitted a set request for the NFL All-Time Interception Leaders and Sharper is way up on the list as you can see. I set the cut-off at 50 career interceptions for inclusion to the set. Here's the checklist:
NFL ALL-TIME INTERCEPTION LEADERS
CARD NO. ITEM NAME GRADE WEIGHT 91 1951 Bowman Emlen Tunnell 9.00 98 1952 Bowman Large/Small Bobby Dillon 6.00 140 1952 Bowman Large/Small Yale Lary 10.00 15 1957 Topps Jack Butler 2.00 83 1957 Topps Jimmy Patton 2.00 85 1957 Topps Dick Lane 9.00 59 1959 Topps Don Burroughs 1.50 202 1961 Fleer Johnny Robinson 2.00 11 1963 Topps Bob Boyd 1.50 155 1963 Topps Larry Wilson 3.00 53 1965 Philadelphia Mel Renfro 7.00 64 1965 Philadelphia Dick LeBeau 1.50 160 1965 Philadelphia Pat Fischer 1.50 189 1965 Philadelphia Paul Krause 3.00 46 1965 Topps Willie Brown 8.00 75 1970 Topps Lem Barney 1.50 157 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas 2.00 171 1973 Topps Ken Riley 1.00 298 1973 Topps Bobby Bryant 1.00 12 1975 Topps Mel Blount 1.50 411 1979 Topps Donnie Shell 1.00 317 1980 Topps Dave Brown 1.00 246 1982 Topps John Harris 1.00 327 1982 Topps Everson Walls 1.00 486 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott 1.50 89 1984 Topps Deron Cherry 1.00 380 1984 Topps Darrell Green 1.00 401 1989 Pro Set Eugene Robinson 1.00 78 1989 Score Rod Woodson 1.00 246 1989 Score Deion Sanders 1.00 380S 1989 Score Supplemental Eric Allen 1.00 94T 1991 Score Supplemental Aeneas Williams 1.00 493 1992 Stadium Club Terrell Buckley 1.00 174 1995 SP Ty Law 1.00 59 1997 Playoff Contenders Darren Sharper 1.00
I also submitted one for the career sack leaders. If anyone wants to see that checklist let me know.
Tom >>
Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith >>
I have to disagree, due to the sheer volume of players that have played professional football 261 seems like a small number of inductions. Today's rosters are at 50+ players so it would make sense that there are more great players taking the field than in the early days of the NFL.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I must be in the minority here regarding the registry sets. I think people should be able to collect whatever they want and however they want to organize it. It's not like each new registry set creates a bunch of spam or junk mail or that you are forced to look at it. If it's not something you're interested in collecting, don't do it. I don't really expect a whole lot of competition on the Tim Hightower Rookie Set that I'll be requesting soon (OK, maybe Squires, but that's about it.....), but for me I like having the checklist and the challenge of completing it with all 10s. The fact that it's a $5 card (in a 10) isn't really relevant to me. I'm collecting what I like, just the same as anyone else. I don't think it's my place to tell others what to collect or how to organize their collection. But that's just me....
<< <i>I must be in the minority here regarding the registry sets. I think people should be able to collect whatever they want and however they want to organize it. It's not like each new registry set creates a bunch of spam or junk mail or that you are forced to look at it. If it's not something you're interested in collecting, don't do it. I don't really expect a whole lot of competition on the Tim Hightower Rookie Set that I'll be requesting soon (OK, maybe Squires, but that's about it.....), but for me I like having the checklist and the challenge of completing it with all 10s. The fact that it's a $5 card (in a 10) isn't really relevant to me. I'm collecting what I like, just the same as anyone else. I don't think it's my place to tell others what to collect or how to organize their collection. But that's just me....
Jasen >>
I don't think your opinion is much different than mine or anyone elses. I don't wish to tell other what to collect or organize their collections. We all collect what we like, and many of us have sets under our belt that are not highly valuable or popular. I guess my main point of contention is where is the line drawn? Or if there is a line?
Just my personal opinion that it could become overkill. Keith gave a great example, being cards of the late 80s, early 90s. Things were taken too far by the card companies and it ruined card values. When I go to the Key Card listings, it's really becoming a jumbled mess. As jradke correctly mentioned above, PSA will list every set they can. I mean hey, its hopefully more people sending cards in for grading they wouldn't normally send in to complete registered sets. I've always believed the registry was created as a place for like minded collectors to share and compare matching sets. That's why they are ranked, and awards are given for top sets, etc. If you want a checklist, use the Showcase.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Speaking of strength of HOF'ers.........I wish there was a rule that if after a player was eligible 5 times, and they didn't make it, they would forever be barred from the HOF. This would keep the HOF the cream of the crop. I mean, If a player wasn't good enough to make it in 5 years, then what would make them HOFer? They are not doing anything on the field to improve their chances. I would also get rid of the Sr. Players. Its my opinion that if you weren't good enough to be enshrined when you first became eligible, you don't belong.
Jason's list looks dead on to me......
Dave >>
Yeah, the Senior selections have really become more of a negative than a positive lately. Instead of 2 per year, maybe they should go to one every other year, and use the off year to select an owner, contributor, commissioner, referee, etc...Basically a non-player rather than lumping them all together. Make the maximum electable each year to 5, 4 of which being modern player candidates.
Most of the borderline/questionable HOFers were put in through the senior committee. That being said, there are still players in the senior pool who are deserving. Nobis, Tingelhoff, Kramer for example..So I wouldn't necessarily want them to do away with it altogether.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason >>
All-time rushers?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
<< <i> Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason >>
All-time rushers? >>
All-Time rushers, the offensive category is??? Rushing yards? Paul Hornung has exactly 3,711 career rushing yards and is included. Shaun Alexander has 9,453 career yards and he is not.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Most of the borderline/questionable HOFers were put in through the senior committee. That being said, there are still players in the senior pool who are deserving. Nobis, Tingelhoff, Kramer for example..So I wouldn't necessarily want them to do away with it altogether.
>>
I cant say that I know much about the careers of these players, but, like I said earlier, if they are deserving, why are they not inducted yet?
I would just like to look at a player and say, "yes, he is a hall of famer" instead of having to think about it and compare their career to other players. Just my opinion.
<< <i> Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason >>
All-time rushers? >>
...and All-Time NFL Receivers.....and All-Time Great Quarterbacks. I think the All-Time INT & All-Time Sack sets that Rec is proposing are no different, just on the other side of the ball. The alternative could be worse "clutter" if it were broken down by position....All-Time NFL Defensive Tackles, All-Time NFL Defensive Ends, All-Time Middle/Inside Linebackers, All-Time NFL Outside Linebackers, etc., etc., etc. Since you have both linebackers and defensive lineman combined in the sack list and cornerbacks & safeties in the interception list, I don't really see an argument to exclude these sets if the RB's, QB's & WR's are included....or are all of these guys relegated to the All-time NFL Defense set? Defensive players are not worthy of being recognized outside of a generalized set but offensive "glory positions" are?
Jason, to your question of where to draw the line, or if there is one.....I'd say there isn't one. It goes back to the old saying, "one man's trash is another man's treasure". I'm sure we all know of someone who thinks we are completely nuts to spend the money we do on the cards we have such passion for. For some of us, those people are within arm's reach when we go to sleep at night.
<< <i>I'm just glad to see this thread getting some love today..........I love it!! >>
LOL..Same here.
Good points by all today. Just different perspectives I guess.
Just to clear up what was said. The All-Time RBs, WRs, and QBs are not based on specific offensive categories. The INT and Sack sets are based on a subjective cutoff number. Everyone above that number is included, everyone below is not..Big difference IMO. I've always believed the All-Time Defense set was good enough, because the fact is, they aren't the glory positions. They aren't the most popular, valuable or collectible rookie cards in most cases as the QB, RB, WRs are. But I would actually rather see All-Time great DL or LB or DB sets (which would match what the QB, RB and WR sets). But hey that's just my preference and my opinion, and like someone said above the Registry wasn't build just for me. To each his own. I guess those All-Time Fumblers and All-Time PAT % set will be next up.
How about all time punt yard average? Everyone over 40 Yards per kick average gets added.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
A line should be drawn above the "fringe" and "limited interest" sets that can be added. Just as myriad sports card product cluttered the collecting landscape by the early '90s, a beginner was bewildered about what to collect and resultantly the number of new enthusiasts waned quickly. A similar phenomena could occur with a potential new Set Registry participant in a few years when they're wading through menu offerings like the aforementioned insipid "NFL AP Defensive Player of the Year Football" and "NFL AP Comeback Player of The Year Award Football" and others of more obscure ilk. Unchecked, it will get worse.
Therefore as Jason P. stated, if one wants a checklist of their own set that is of limited interest, use the "Showcase" feature. I don't think anyone advocates that one should be stripped of their right to collect whatever they want. What if I want to make a Set Registry request for something arcane yet strictly-defined, say "The Greatest Football Players Ever To Wear Number '62'"? Perhaps I can. Oh no, I can?
If we're also addressing the above, does anyone know why there are sets named "Future HOF Rookie Players"? I think it can be agreed many of these players will never be Cantonians. "Near HOF Rookie Players" is apropos.
Tom, thanks for finding that "Turney Sack List". Interesting! I never knew there was such a thing, even a sack number "assigned" to Deacon Jones, et. al.
You know, it's kind of interesting to have written on this board for a few months. Though I'm new, I've gotten to "know" several posters by communicating outside of the Message Board. The above are mostly my opinions about issues, not posters. I find it helps to keep my eyes mostly off the avatar and mostly on the issue. I always hope we can still have intelligent disagreement about important issues as they surface then go back to having fun again. To me, sports cards is fun first. It's fun to simply look at something like this...
I believe I would like to start an all time punters set. Nominating 2 great raiders to anchor it....ray guy and shane lechler
Why are some guys not in and others are that some consider not worthy? Voting and selecting HOF members is very much like judging an olympic ice skating event. All judges are experts.....but come from different favorite cities and didn't see the event in the same eyes.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Why are some guys not in and others are that some consider not worthy? Voting and selecting HOF members is very much like judging an olympic ice skating event. All judges are experts.....but come from different favorite cities and didn't see the event in the same eyes. >>
Very well said. And that is why I would prefer the Senior committee to not go away altogether. I do think selecting 2 per year has caused a bit of overkill, but one every couple of years would be ok. As voters change and age old grudges disappear, maybe those last few missing votes will show up and a guy who SHOULD be in gets in. Jerry Kramer was a finalist 10 times as a modern candidate. So he had lots of support on the committee, just not the required 80%. And back then there weren't as many voters as there are now. So one or two guys holding a grudge over a book he wrote could have easily kept him out. He was a dominant pulling guard/run blocker and made one of, if not the most famous block in NFL history, opening the hole for Bart Starr in the Ice Bowl game.
He deserves to be in.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
If we're also addressing the above, does anyone know why there are sets named "Future HOF Rookie Players"? I think it can be agreed many of these players will never be Cantonians. "Near HOF Rookie Players" is apropos. >>
I can't rememeber how or why we named it the way we did. But when we here on the boards put those 2 sets together, the understanding was this:
Modern set= players who are either LOCKS or at a minimum very LIKELY HOFers. Senior set= players who are no longer modern candidates who could POSSIBLY get in one day. Obviously, anyone in the senior pool failed to be elected in 25 years as a modern candidate and therefore could never be considered anything other than a longshot.
We vote here on the boards every year for additions and subtractions to send to PSA. Thus far, every vote we've taken here has turned out exactly the same when PSA sends out the real poll. It's a majority rule thing, which to me is the absolute only way to go about it fairly since as we can see, there are many varying opinions around here on players, sets, and life in general. Plus, making additons/subtractions only once per year alleviates the worry of a rogue "inclusive" collector coming out of nowhere and requesting Vinny Testaverde be added to the Modern set. lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm just glad to see this thread getting some love today..........I love it!! >>
LOL..Same here.
Good points by all today. Just different perspectives I guess.
Just to clear up what was said. The All-Time RBs, WRs, and QBs are not based on specific offensive categories. The INT and Sack sets are based on a subjective cutoff number. Everyone above that number is included, everyone below is not..Big difference IMO. I've always believed the All-Time Defense set was good enough, because the fact is, they aren't the glory positions. They aren't the most popular, valuable or collectible rookie cards in most cases as the QB, RB, WRs are. But I would actually rather see All-Time great DL or LB or DB sets (which would match what the QB, RB and WR sets). But hey that's just my preference and my opinion, and like someone said above the Registry wasn't build just for me. To each his own. I guess those All-Time Fumblers and All-Time PAT % set will be next up.
How about all time punt yard average? Everyone over 40 Yards per kick average gets added.
Jason >>
I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken??
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
as for using the showcase as a checklist. well you get a checklist of the cards you already have. you can insert cards you dont own to make a new checklist.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken?? >>
Originally, We had 2 different set for Running Backs. One was 10K yard rushers and the other was "all time great RB's" The sets were so similar that we ended up combining the two sets in the 1. That is why Hornung is in the set with 3700 yards and Shaun Alexander isn't. 10K is an automatic inclusion but not an absolute requirement.
So a player could be put in the set without reaching the 10K milestone.
I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken?? >>
For ACTIVE current RBs, they need 10,000 yards. For retired guys, no criteria. For WRs, there is no set number. The rule of thumb has been 800 catches, 12,000 yards for ACTIVE guys but there is no set criteria. Look at the players who currently populate the sets. Then look at the stats of each and you will see there is no "minimum" bar.
Absolutely no numbers attached the QB or Defense sets. Nothing. You COULD literally have an All-Time Passing TD set, All-Time Passing Yards set, All-Time Completions set, All-Time Scoring Set, All-Time Receptions set, All-Time Receiving yards set, etc, etc, etc...This would mirror the upcoming INT ans Sack sets, where players are judged ONLY by the numbers and not if they were really an "All-Time" player. I guess that's where we are headed. A set for every stat category since there is no line to be crossed that equates to overkill.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
No, there are actually several HOF'ers not in the all time rushers set. Clark Hinkle, Ken Strong, Jim Thorpe, Ollie Matson, Frank Gifford, Lenny Moore, Doak Walker, Bronko Nagurski (how is he not included?!!) I guess some of it has to do with the actual definition of a running back. Looks like the two way players were left out......
I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken?? >>
For ACTIVE current RBs, they need 10,000 yards. For retired guys, no criteria. For WRs, there is no set number. The rule of thumb has been 800 catches, 12,000 yards for ACTIVE guys but there is no set criteria. Look at the players who currently populate the sets. Then look at the stats of each and you will see there is no "minimum" bar.
Absolutely no numbers attached the QB or Defense sets. Nothing. You COULD literally have an All-Time Passing TD set, All-Time Passing Yards set, All-Time Completions set, All-Time Scoring Set, All-Time Receptions set, All-Time Receiving yards set, etc, etc, etc...This would mirror the upcoming INT ans Sack sets, where players are judged ONLY by the numbers and not if they were really an "All-Time" player. I guess that's where we are headed. A set for every stat category since there is no line to be crossed that equates to overkill.
Jason >>
look, i really dont care what sets people request. is there a lot of overkill. yes there sure is. to be honest i am not really all that fond of the "future" HOF sets that are up now. wasnt too much when they were debated and still have changed my mind. but hey this is both a free country (at least at last check) and PSA is free to run the registry the way they want to. if you think the sets with one or a small handful are bad. there are many that have been requested, added and the initial requester still hasnt loaded their set.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Comments
<< <i>Same can be said for most of the top players from the current Patriots dynasty. Will be interesting to see how the voters treat those Patriot players like Law, Bruschi, Seymour, Rodney Harrison...
Jason >>
Great point Jason. Will be very interesting to see.
Career Interceptions Leaders
1. Paul Krause+ 81 1964-1979 2TM
2. Emlen Tunnell+ 79 1948-1961 2TM
3. Rod Woodson+ 71 1987-2003 4TM
4. Night Train Lane+ 68 1952-1965 3TM
5. Ken Riley 65 1969-1983 cin
6. Ronnie Lott+ 63 1981-1994 3TM
7. Dick LeBeau 62 1959-1972 det
Dave Brown 62 1975-1989 3TM
9. Darren Sharper (33) 59 1997-2009 3TM
10. Emmitt Thomas+ 58 1966-1978 kan
It's funny this came up, I just submitted a set request for the NFL All-Time Interception Leaders and Sharper is way up on the list as you can see. I set the cut-off at 50 career interceptions for inclusion to the set. Here's the checklist:
NFL ALL-TIME INTERCEPTION LEADERS
CARD NO. ITEM NAME GRADE WEIGHT
91 1951 Bowman Emlen Tunnell 9.00
98 1952 Bowman Large/Small Bobby Dillon 6.00
140 1952 Bowman Large/Small Yale Lary 10.00
15 1957 Topps Jack Butler 2.00
83 1957 Topps Jimmy Patton 2.00
85 1957 Topps Dick Lane 9.00
59 1959 Topps Don Burroughs 1.50
202 1961 Fleer Johnny Robinson 2.00
11 1963 Topps Bob Boyd 1.50
155 1963 Topps Larry Wilson 3.00
53 1965 Philadelphia Mel Renfro 7.00
64 1965 Philadelphia Dick LeBeau 1.50
160 1965 Philadelphia Pat Fischer 1.50
189 1965 Philadelphia Paul Krause 3.00
46 1965 Topps Willie Brown 8.00
75 1970 Topps Lem Barney 1.50
157 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas 2.00
171 1973 Topps Ken Riley 1.00
298 1973 Topps Bobby Bryant 1.00
12 1975 Topps Mel Blount 1.50
411 1979 Topps Donnie Shell 1.00
317 1980 Topps Dave Brown 1.00
246 1982 Topps John Harris 1.00
327 1982 Topps Everson Walls 1.00
486 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott 1.50
89 1984 Topps Deron Cherry 1.00
380 1984 Topps Darrell Green 1.00
401 1989 Pro Set Eugene Robinson 1.00
78 1989 Score Rod Woodson 1.00
246 1989 Score Deion Sanders 1.00
380S 1989 Score Supplemental Eric Allen 1.00
94T 1991 Score Supplemental Aeneas Williams 1.00
493 1992 Stadium Club Terrell Buckley 1.00
174 1995 SP Ty Law 1.00
59 1997 Playoff Contenders Darren Sharper 1.00
I also submitted one for the career sack leaders. If anyone wants to see that checklist let me know.
Tom
<< <i>I got this off Pro-Football-Refrence.com
Career Interceptions Leaders
1. Paul Krause+ 81 1964-1979 2TM
2. Emlen Tunnell+ 79 1948-1961 2TM
3. Rod Woodson+ 71 1987-2003 4TM
4. Night Train Lane+ 68 1952-1965 3TM
5. Ken Riley 65 1969-1983 cin
6. Ronnie Lott+ 63 1981-1994 3TM
7. Dick LeBeau 62 1959-1972 det
Dave Brown 62 1975-1989 3TM
9. Darren Sharper (33) 59 1997-2009 3TM
10. Emmitt Thomas+ 58 1966-1978 kan
>>
I think the funny thing about the INT leaders (and the sack leaders as well) is that these numbers do not particularly translate into HOF worthiness. Ken Riley and Dave Brown will never make the HOF. Emmitt Thomas was never a finalist as a modern candidate and just recently got in as a Senior. Same for LeBeau who's finally up this year, and probably wouldn't be if he weren't so highly regarded as an assistant coach.
It even took Paul Krause 14 years to get in, and he retired the all-time leader in INTs...
Tom, which sack list are you using? The All-Time leaders since 1982, or the all-time unofficial sack leaders (which would contain Decon Jones for example)?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
All-Time Fumblers:
1. Warren Moon+ 161
2. Brett Favre (39) 157
3. Dave Krieg 153
4. John Elway+ 137
5. Kerry Collins (36) 130
6. Boomer Esiason 123
7. Drew Bledsoe 123
8. Vinny Testaverde 116
9. Dan Marino+ 110
10. Dan Fouts+ 106
All-Time Extra Point %:
1. Rian Lindell (31) 100.000%
2. Nick Folk (24) 100.000%
3. Paul Edinger 100.000%
4. Tommy Brooker 100.000%
5. Nate Kaeding (26) 99.625%
6. Josh Brown (29) 99.598%
7. Mike Vanderjagt 99.472%
8. Matt Stover 99.465%
9. Tommy Davis 99.429%
10. Stephen Gostkowski (24) 99.425%
All-Time Mr. Irrelavent Draft Picks:
2009 Ryan Succop Chiefs K
2008 David Vobora Rams OLB
2007 Ramzee Robinson Lions CB
2006 Kevin McMahan Raiders WR
2005 Andy Stokes Patriots TE
2004 Andre Sommersell Raiders LB
2003 Ryan Hoag Raiders WR
2002 Ahmad Miller Texans DT
2001 Tevita Ofahengaue Cardinals TE
2000 Michael Green Bears DB
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Tom, which sack list are you using? The All-Time leaders since 1982, or the all-time unofficial sack leaders (which would contain Decon Jones for example)? >>
The offical one since 1982. I have never seen the unofficial one, but I would like to get a look at it.
I know some of the sets I requested don't tie into the HOF RC set, but that's not why I requested them.
I like collecting some of the obscure cards, but I would say that most of the cards in the sets I requested are in one of the key card sets or one of the Hall of Fame sets. If it's a newer card, who knows what will happen in the future, but I try and put cards in the checklists that would cross over to the other sets if that player had a great career.
Tom
<< <i>
<< <i>Tom, which sack list are you using? The All-Time leaders since 1982, or the all-time unofficial sack leaders (which would contain Decon Jones for example)? >>
The offical one since 1982. I have never seen the unofficial one, but I would like to get a look at it.
Tom >>
It's posted somewhere in this thread...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>It's posted somewhere in this thread... >>
Well Jason, considering you just had the 6000th post a little while ago, I might look on the internet first, lol.
Is it too early to add Damarcus Russell on the all time fumbles list?
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>
<< <i>It's posted somewhere in this thread... >>
Well Jason, considering you just had the 6000th post a little while ago, I might look on the internet first, lol. >>
Yeah, that's why I didn't try to page back to find it...lol
I have the stats in my database, but out of town on business at the moment. If you can't find it by this weekend, I'll throw it back up. The research into it was done by John Turney. That should help you find it.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
NFL SACK LIST
Rk. Player Sacks
1. Bruce Smith 200
2. Reggie White 198
3. Kevin Greene 160
4. Chris Doleman 150½
5. Michael Strahan 141½
6. Richard Dent 137½
6. John Randle 137½
8. Leslie O'Neal 132½
8. Lawrence Taylor 132½
10 Rickey Jackson 128
11 Derrick Thomas 126½
12 Simeon Rice 122
13 Clyde Simmons 121½
14 Jason Taylor 120½
15 Sean Jones 113
TURNEY SACK LIST
Rk. Player Sacks
1. Bruce Smith 200
2. Reggie White 198
3. Deacon Jones 173½
4. Kevin Greene 160
5. Jack Youngblood 151½
6. Chris Doleman 150½
7. Alan Page 148½
8. Lawrence Taylor 142
9. Michael Strahan 141½
10. Richard Dent 137½
10. John Randle 137½
12. Rickey Jackson 136
13. Carl Eller 133
14. Leslie O'Neal 132½
15. Coy Bacon 130
<< <i>Found it. I will keep looking and see if I can find a list that takes it down to 100 career sacks. That was the cutoff point for my set.
TURNEY SACK LIST
Rk. Player Sacks
1. Bruce Smith 200
2. Reggie White 198
3. Deacon Jones 173½
4. Kevin Greene 160
5. Jack Youngblood 151½
6. Chris Doleman 150½
7. Alan Page 148½
8. Lawrence Taylor 142
9. Michael Strahan 141½
10. Richard Dent 137½
10. John Randle 137½
12. Rickey Jackson 136
13. Carl Eller 133
14. Leslie O'Neal 132½
15. Coy Bacon 130 >>
WOW! Coy Bacon. I had no idea.
NFL ALL-TIME SACK LEADERS
CARD NO. ITEM NAME GRADE WEIGHT
434 1982 Topps Lawrence Taylor 5.00
125 1984 Topps Andre Tippett 1.50
303 1984 Topps Rickey Jackson 1.00
58 1984 Topps USFL Reggie White 10.00
24 1985 Topps Richard Dent 5.00
45 1985 Topps Jim Jeffcoat 1.00
70 1986 Topps Greg Townsend 1.00
389 1986 Topps Bruce Smith 2.00
125 1987 Topps Charles Haley 1.00
222 1987 Topps Sean Jones 1.00
347 1987 Leslie O'Neal 1.00
66 1988 Topps Pat Swilling 1.00
157 1988 Topps Chris Doleman 1.00
244 1988 Topps Clyde Simmons 1.00
300 1988 Topps Kevin Green 1.00
258 1989 Score Derrick Thomas 1.50
407S 1989 Score Sup. Neil Smith 1.00
440S 1989 Score Sup. Trace Armstrong 1.00
14 1985 Topps USFL William Fuller 1.00
835 1991 Pro Set John Randle 1.00
331 1993 Ultra Michael Strahan 1.00
7 1995 SP Kevin Carter 1.00
3 1996 SP Simeon Rice 1.00
116 1997 SP Authentic Jason Taylor 1.00
<< <i>Since there seems to be a rush to add a new set for everything to the football registry lately, how about some of these ideas..lol
All-Time Fumblers:
1. Warren Moon+ 161
2. Brett Favre (39) 157
3. Dave Krieg 153
4. John Elway+ 137
5. Kerry Collins (36) 130
6. Boomer Esiason 123
7. Drew Bledsoe 123
8. Vinny Testaverde 116
9. Dan Marino+ 110
10. Dan Fouts+ 106
All-Time Extra Point %:
1. Rian Lindell (31) 100.000%
2. Nick Folk (24) 100.000%
3. Paul Edinger 100.000%
4. Tommy Brooker 100.000%
5. Nate Kaeding (26) 99.625%
6. Josh Brown (29) 99.598%
7. Mike Vanderjagt 99.472%
8. Matt Stover 99.465%
9. Tommy Davis 99.429%
10. Stephen Gostkowski (24) 99.425%
All-Time Mr. Irrelavent Draft Picks:
2009 Ryan Succop Chiefs K
2008 David Vobora Rams OLB
2007 Ramzee Robinson Lions CB
2006 Kevin McMahan Raiders WR
2005 Andy Stokes Patriots TE
2004 Andre Sommersell Raiders LB
2003 Ryan Hoag Raiders WR
2002 Ahmad Miller Texans DT
2001 Tevita Ofahengaue Cardinals TE
2000 Michael Green Bears DB
Jason >>
jason,
i generally agree you with on the excessive amount of certain types of sets. but then again you can get more free grades!!! that would be the only reason in my mind to start some of these extras.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
jason,
i generally agree you with on the excessive amount of certain types of sets. but then again you can get more free grades!!! that would be the only reason in my mind to start some of these extras. >>
That was my assumption at first, but some of these new sets have so many obscure ,essentially valueless cards. Realitically, there are many that no one outside of those collecting the particular set would be interested in...Getting to 90% in order to receive a free grading will end up being way more costly than simply paying for the "free" card to be graded.
Take the INT and Sack sets as examples. Keep in mind, that these are much smaller and have far less fringe cards than say the upcoming #1 draft pick set or the AP Comeback Player of the Year set. But even here, the INT set, you'll need 32 of the 35 cards to earn a free grading. To include: 1973 Topps Bobby Bryant, 1980 Topps Dave Brown , 1982 Topps John Harris, 1989 Pro Set Eugene Robinson, 1992 Stadium Club Terrell Buckley....You'll need at least 2 of these, and you'll pay more in grading fees on them than the card will ever be worth.
The Sack set: You'll need 22 of the 24 to get a free grading. To include these commons: 1985 USFL William Fuller, 1987 Topps Sean Jones, 1987 Topps Leslie O' Neal, 1989 Score Supp. Trace Armstrong, 1995 SP Kevin Carter....
Look, I'm not out to dog anyone who wants to submit or request a set to the Registry. It's a free country, so do what you want. But IMO, it's becoming overkill to the point where it will devalue some of the more popular key card type sets. I guess I just don't understand the lure of wanting to collect massive amounts of $5 (in PSA 10 mind you) cards of guys who will never be a HOFer and who's cards will never hold any value. A few here and there, sure. Maybe your a fan of a specific team or player you want to collect. But how many sets do we need like this that are just conglomerations of players/teams and sets plugged into a rehashed/reworked key card checklist?
Kinda like the HOF. You can make in exclusive or inclusive. The more inclusive these sets become, in number and in size, the more watered down the Football Key card Registry is going to become. Will be interesting to see how many really chase these sets to try and complete them.
Some examples:
Ohio State University All-Time Greatest Rookies- set has been live since at least Feb 09. 4 collectors registered, 0 over 50% completion.
University of Illinois All-Time Greatest Rookies - set has been live since at least Mar 08. 1 collector registered, and to his credit he's at 97%.
I won't even start on the autograph sets that so clog the key card and HOF registries now. PSA needs to have a separate catagory listing for autographed sets. There are more sets listed than there are collectors registered to them...lol
Just my opinion here, please don't take offense,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I agree with you.
MAD
------------
BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
------------
NFL All-Time #1 Draft Picks Football
NFL AP Offensive Rookies Of The Year Football
NFL AP Defensive Rookies Of The Year Football
NFL AP MVP Award Football
NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year Football
NFL AP Defensive Player of the Year Football
NFL AP Comeback Player of The Year Award Football
NFL Annual Rushing Leaders
NFL All-Time Sack Leaders Football
NFL All-Time Interception Leaders Football
Posting this to illustrate my point...Where does it end?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I'm submitting a request for the NFL All Time Convicted Felon Set and may also add the NFL Player of the Year Arrest Leader Set. >>
Wow, those could be large 100 card+ sets already...lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Thank you for the kind words. Really appreciate the opportunity to help. I remember when I started Jason, Craig and Dan were the most helpful. Always considered the comraderie to be more important than anything else including the friendly competition.
MAD
------------
BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
------------
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith
<< <i>Jason P.,
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith >>
Yeah, count me in the exclusivity camp as well. With the HOF and also with the Registry sets. The are both treated in similar fashion, in that when cards or players are added to the existing, there is a vote that takes place, and the majority decides. With new sets however, there is no vote. There is no query. There is nothing to gauge the need or desire of these new sets. All it takes is one collector with three cards to request it. I guess on the bright side, most of the these new/upcoming sets are cut and dry as to the checklist. There is no debate on who belongs or who doesn't, as they are based on specific awards or specific numbers reached. I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Elvin Bethea
Bob (Boomer) Brown
Nick Buoniconti
Tony Canadeo
Jimmy Conzelman
Al Davis
Fred Dean
Joe DeLamielleure
Weeb Ewbank
Jim Finks
Ray Flaherty
Benny Friedman
Frank Gatski
Joe Guyon
Dan Hampton
Bob Hayes
John Henry Johnson
Charlie Joiner
Leroy Kelly
Alphonse (Tuffy) Leemans
Tom Mack
Tim Mara
John (Blood) McNally
Wayne Millner
George Musso
Fritz Pollard
Hugh (Shorty) Ray
Charlie Sanders
Bob St. Clair
Emmitt Thomas
Charley Trippi
Doak Walker
Roger Wehrli
Arnie Weinmeister
Rayfield Wright
That's 35 I would knock off without question.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jason P.,
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith >>
Yeah, count me in the exclusivity camp as well. With the HOF and also with the Registry sets. The are both treated in similar fashion, in that when cards or players are added to the existing, there is a vote that takes place, and the majority decides. With new sets however, there is no vote. There is no query. There is nothing to gauge the need or desire of these new sets. All it takes is one collector with three cards to request it. I guess on the bright side, most of the these new/upcoming sets are cut and dry as to the checklist. There is no debate on who belongs or who doesn't, as they are based on specific awards or specific numbers reached. I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them.
Jason >>
The only problem is that the set registry wasnt designed to be setup in the manner that you would prefer. Based on your requirement that at least 5 collectors at a minimum of 25% there are many sets that would be eliminated. The highest percentage wouldnt be the all time sets that you would prefer, it would be smaller less collected company type sets. Not to mention sometimes it takes a little time for people to get on board.
I remember when the two of us and some others had discussed whom to add the all time Packer sets. You are adamant in that it is only HOF-type players. While some of us that are Packer fans wanted to see more included. So we started the Packer HOF set. This set is about 180 degrees from your collecting focus and I am sure did not approve of its inclusion in the registry. Based on your requirement that at least 5 collectors be at 25% or higher with in 6 months or a year we would have been removed. Well after a year passed we got more sets and now are up to 10, which is rough 10% of the Pro HOF Rookie set. We now have 6 over your 25% mark but we would never have got that far with your time limit. I am not sure how long it took for the Rookie HOF set to get to the 5 collectors over 25% number but I assume that it probably would have made it.
I do agree that there are cases to be made for the Collectors Showcase. That is where I have some sets as well, that wouldnt fit.
I have about 10 company sets that would fit your exclusion list. The problem for PSA is then why would someone ever submit some of those cards for grading. The set registry has done wonders for increasing their submission I would think. They would be kind of killing the goose that lays the golden egg.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
I mean, If a player wasn't good enough to make it in 5 years, then what would make them HOFer? They are not doing anything on the field to improve their chances.
I would also get rid of the Sr. Players. Its my opinion that if you weren't good enough to be enshrined when you first became eligible, you don't belong.
Jason's list looks dead on to me......
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>I got this off Pro-Football-Refrence.com
Career Interceptions Leaders
1. Paul Krause+ 81 1964-1979 2TM
2. Emlen Tunnell+ 79 1948-1961 2TM
3. Rod Woodson+ 71 1987-2003 4TM
4. Night Train Lane+ 68 1952-1965 3TM
5. Ken Riley 65 1969-1983 cin
6. Ronnie Lott+ 63 1981-1994 3TM
7. Dick LeBeau 62 1959-1972 det
Dave Brown 62 1975-1989 3TM
9. Darren Sharper (33) 59 1997-2009 3TM
10. Emmitt Thomas+ 58 1966-1978 kan
It's funny this came up, I just submitted a set request for the NFL All-Time Interception Leaders and Sharper is way up on the list as you can see. I set the cut-off at 50 career interceptions for inclusion to the set. Here's the checklist:
NFL ALL-TIME INTERCEPTION LEADERS
CARD NO. ITEM NAME GRADE WEIGHT
91 1951 Bowman Emlen Tunnell 9.00
98 1952 Bowman Large/Small Bobby Dillon 6.00
140 1952 Bowman Large/Small Yale Lary 10.00
15 1957 Topps Jack Butler 2.00
83 1957 Topps Jimmy Patton 2.00
85 1957 Topps Dick Lane 9.00
59 1959 Topps Don Burroughs 1.50
202 1961 Fleer Johnny Robinson 2.00
11 1963 Topps Bob Boyd 1.50
155 1963 Topps Larry Wilson 3.00
53 1965 Philadelphia Mel Renfro 7.00
64 1965 Philadelphia Dick LeBeau 1.50
160 1965 Philadelphia Pat Fischer 1.50
189 1965 Philadelphia Paul Krause 3.00
46 1965 Topps Willie Brown 8.00
75 1970 Topps Lem Barney 1.50
157 1972 Topps Emmitt Thomas 2.00
171 1973 Topps Ken Riley 1.00
298 1973 Topps Bobby Bryant 1.00
12 1975 Topps Mel Blount 1.50
411 1979 Topps Donnie Shell 1.00
317 1980 Topps Dave Brown 1.00
246 1982 Topps John Harris 1.00
327 1982 Topps Everson Walls 1.00
486 1982 Topps Ronnie Lott 1.50
89 1984 Topps Deron Cherry 1.00
380 1984 Topps Darrell Green 1.00
401 1989 Pro Set Eugene Robinson 1.00
78 1989 Score Rod Woodson 1.00
246 1989 Score Deion Sanders 1.00
380S 1989 Score Supplemental Eric Allen 1.00
94T 1991 Score Supplemental Aeneas Williams 1.00
493 1992 Stadium Club Terrell Buckley 1.00
174 1995 SP Ty Law 1.00
59 1997 Playoff Contenders Darren Sharper 1.00
I also submitted one for the career sack leaders. If anyone wants to see that checklist let me know.
Tom >>
Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>Jason P.,
That is the smartest post that I have seen on the importance of exclusivity in quite some time, thank you. It applies to both card sets and the Hall Of Fame itself. You have to look no further than my signature line to know how much I appreciate that. At this point, less is more. Complexity diminishes collectibility, and any sports card collector that lived through the early '90s will always know this.
There are now upwards of 261 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Members. Even if one looks at that number through a critical lens as percentage of all whom played this great game, 261 or so busts sculpted remains a large absolute number. Yet six annual inductees is the recent norm, rather than two to three which would make the institution more special, and perhaps even make it "hallowed" again.
-Keith >>
I have to disagree, due to the sheer volume of players that have played professional football 261 seems like a small number of inductions. Today's rosters are at 50+ players so it would make sense that there are more great players taking the field than in the early days of the NFL.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Jasen
<< <i>I must be in the minority here regarding the registry sets. I think people should be able to collect whatever they want and however they want to organize it. It's not like each new registry set creates a bunch of spam or junk mail or that you are forced to look at it. If it's not something you're interested in collecting, don't do it. I don't really expect a whole lot of competition on the Tim Hightower Rookie Set that I'll be requesting soon (OK, maybe Squires, but that's about it.....), but for me I like having the checklist and the challenge of completing it with all 10s. The fact that it's a $5 card (in a 10) isn't really relevant to me. I'm collecting what I like, just the same as anyone else. I don't think it's my place to tell others what to collect or how to organize their collection. But that's just me....
Jasen >>
I don't think your opinion is much different than mine or anyone elses. I don't wish to tell other what to collect or organize their collections. We all collect what we like, and many of us have sets under our belt that are not highly valuable or popular. I guess my main point of contention is where is the line drawn? Or if there is a line?
Just my personal opinion that it could become overkill. Keith gave a great example, being cards of the late 80s, early 90s. Things were taken too far by the card companies and it ruined card values. When I go to the Key Card listings, it's really becoming a jumbled mess. As jradke correctly mentioned above, PSA will list every set they can. I mean hey, its hopefully more people sending cards in for grading they wouldn't normally send in to complete registered sets. I've always believed the registry was created as a place for like minded collectors to share and compare matching sets. That's why they are ranked, and awards are given for top sets, etc. If you want a checklist, use the Showcase.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Speaking of strength of HOF'ers.........I wish there was a rule that if after a player was eligible 5 times, and they didn't make it, they would forever be barred from the HOF. This would keep the HOF the cream of the crop.
I mean, If a player wasn't good enough to make it in 5 years, then what would make them HOFer? They are not doing anything on the field to improve their chances.
I would also get rid of the Sr. Players. Its my opinion that if you weren't good enough to be enshrined when you first became eligible, you don't belong.
Jason's list looks dead on to me......
Dave >>
Yeah, the Senior selections have really become more of a negative than a positive lately. Instead of 2 per year, maybe they should go to one every other year, and use the off year to select an owner, contributor, commissioner, referee, etc...Basically a non-player rather than lumping them all together. Make the maximum electable each year to 5, 4 of which being modern player candidates.
Most of the borderline/questionable HOFers were put in through the senior committee. That being said, there are still players in the senior pool who are deserving. Nobis, Tingelhoff, Kramer for example..So I wouldn't necessarily want them to do away with it altogether.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason >>
All-time rushers?
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason >>
All-time rushers? >>
All-Time rushers, the offensive category is??? Rushing yards? Paul Hornung has exactly 3,711 career rushing yards and is included. Shaun Alexander has 9,453 career yards and he is not.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Most of the borderline/questionable HOFers were put in through the senior committee. That being said, there are still players in the senior pool who are deserving. Nobis, Tingelhoff, Kramer for example..So I wouldn't necessarily want them to do away with it altogether.
>>
I cant say that I know much about the careers of these players, but, like I said earlier, if they are deserving, why are they not inducted yet?
I would just like to look at a player and say, "yes, he is a hall of famer" instead of having to think about it and compare their career to other players. Just my opinion.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Great idea, there are registries for the offensive categories so why not have two for the defensive stats. In my opinion valid arguments can be made for many of the players on the all-time sack list w/ at least 100 sacks. >>
Really? Which offensive categories?
Jason >>
All-time rushers? >>
...and All-Time NFL Receivers.....and All-Time Great Quarterbacks. I think the All-Time INT & All-Time Sack sets that Rec is proposing are no different, just on the other side of the ball. The alternative could be worse "clutter" if it were broken down by position....All-Time NFL Defensive Tackles, All-Time NFL Defensive Ends, All-Time Middle/Inside Linebackers, All-Time NFL Outside Linebackers, etc., etc., etc. Since you have both linebackers and defensive lineman combined in the sack list and cornerbacks & safeties in the interception list, I don't really see an argument to exclude these sets if the RB's, QB's & WR's are included....or are all of these guys relegated to the All-time NFL Defense set? Defensive players are not worthy of being recognized outside of a generalized set but offensive "glory positions" are?
Jason, to your question of where to draw the line, or if there is one.....I'd say there isn't one. It goes back to the old saying, "one man's trash is another man's treasure". I'm sure we all know of someone who thinks we are completely nuts to spend the money we do on the cards we have such passion for. For some of us, those people are within arm's reach when we go to sleep at night.
Jasen
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>I'm just glad to see this thread getting some love today..........I love it!! >>
LOL..Same here.
Good points by all today. Just different perspectives I guess.
Just to clear up what was said. The All-Time RBs, WRs, and QBs are not based on specific offensive categories. The INT and Sack sets are based on a subjective cutoff number. Everyone above that number is included, everyone below is not..Big difference IMO. I've always believed the All-Time Defense set was good enough, because the fact is, they aren't the glory positions. They aren't the most popular, valuable or collectible rookie cards in most cases as the QB, RB, WRs are. But I would actually rather see All-Time great DL or LB or DB sets (which would match what the QB, RB and WR sets). But hey that's just my preference and my opinion, and like someone said above the Registry wasn't build just for me. To each his own. I guess those All-Time Fumblers and All-Time PAT % set will be next up.
How about all time punt yard average? Everyone over 40 Yards per kick average gets added.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Therefore as Jason P. stated, if one wants a checklist of their own set that is of limited interest, use the "Showcase" feature. I don't think anyone advocates that one should be stripped of their right to collect whatever they want. What if I want to make a Set Registry request for something arcane yet strictly-defined, say "The Greatest Football Players Ever To Wear Number '62'"? Perhaps I can. Oh no, I can?
________________________________________________________________________
If we're also addressing the above, does anyone know why there are sets named "Future HOF Rookie Players"? I think it can be agreed many of these players will never be Cantonians. "Near HOF Rookie Players" is apropos.
Tom, thanks for finding that "Turney Sack List". Interesting! I never knew there was such a thing, even a sack number "assigned" to Deacon Jones, et. al.
You know, it's kind of interesting to have written on this board for a few months. Though I'm new, I've gotten to "know" several posters by communicating outside of the Message Board. The above are mostly my opinions about issues, not posters. I find it helps to keep my eyes mostly off the avatar and mostly on the issue. I always hope we can still have intelligent disagreement about important issues as they surface then go back to having fun again. To me, sports cards is fun first. It's fun to simply look at something like this...
Nominating 2 great raiders to anchor it....ray guy and shane lechler
Why are some guys not in and others are that some consider not worthy?
Voting and selecting HOF members is very much like judging an olympic ice skating event. All judges are experts.....but come from different favorite cities and didn't see the event in the same eyes.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>
Why are some guys not in and others are that some consider not worthy?
Voting and selecting HOF members is very much like judging an olympic ice skating event. All judges are experts.....but come from different favorite cities and didn't see the event in the same eyes. >>
Very well said. And that is why I would prefer the Senior committee to not go away altogether. I do think selecting 2 per year has caused a bit of overkill, but one every couple of years would be ok. As voters change and age old grudges disappear, maybe those last few missing votes will show up and a guy who SHOULD be in gets in. Jerry Kramer was a finalist 10 times as a modern candidate. So he had lots of support on the committee, just not the required 80%. And back then there weren't as many voters as there are now. So one or two guys holding a grudge over a book he wrote could have easily kept him out. He was a dominant pulling guard/run blocker and made one of, if not the most famous block in NFL history, opening the hole for Bart Starr in the Ice Bowl game.
He deserves to be in.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
If we're also addressing the above, does anyone know why there are sets named "Future HOF Rookie Players"? I think it can be agreed many of these players will never be Cantonians. "Near HOF Rookie Players" is apropos. >>
I can't rememeber how or why we named it the way we did. But when we here on the boards put those 2 sets together, the understanding was this:
Modern set= players who are either LOCKS or at a minimum very LIKELY HOFers.
Senior set= players who are no longer modern candidates who could POSSIBLY get in one day. Obviously, anyone in the senior pool failed to be elected in 25 years as a modern candidate and therefore could never be considered anything other than a longshot.
We vote here on the boards every year for additions and subtractions to send to PSA. Thus far, every vote we've taken here has turned out exactly the same when PSA sends out the real poll. It's a majority rule thing, which to me is the absolute only way to go about it fairly since as we can see, there are many varying opinions around here on players, sets, and life in general. Plus, making additons/subtractions only once per year alleviates the worry of a rogue "inclusive" collector coming out of nowhere and requesting Vinny Testaverde be added to the Modern set. lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm just glad to see this thread getting some love today..........I love it!! >>
LOL..Same here.
Good points by all today. Just different perspectives I guess.
Just to clear up what was said. The All-Time RBs, WRs, and QBs are not based on specific offensive categories. The INT and Sack sets are based on a subjective cutoff number. Everyone above that number is included, everyone below is not..Big difference IMO. I've always believed the All-Time Defense set was good enough, because the fact is, they aren't the glory positions. They aren't the most popular, valuable or collectible rookie cards in most cases as the QB, RB, WRs are. But I would actually rather see All-Time great DL or LB or DB sets (which would match what the QB, RB and WR sets). But hey that's just my preference and my opinion, and like someone said above the Registry wasn't build just for me. To each his own. I guess those All-Time Fumblers and All-Time PAT % set will be next up.
How about all time punt yard average? Everyone over 40 Yards per kick average gets added.
Jason >>
I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken??
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken??
>>
Originally, We had 2 different set for Running Backs. One was 10K yard rushers and the other was "all time great RB's" The sets were so similar that we ended up combining the two sets in the 1. That is why Hornung is in the set with 3700 yards and Shaun Alexander isn't. 10K is an automatic inclusion but not an absolute requirement.
So a player could be put in the set without reaching the 10K milestone.
Hope that clears it up.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken?? >>
For ACTIVE current RBs, they need 10,000 yards. For retired guys, no criteria. For WRs, there is no set number. The rule of thumb has been 800 catches, 12,000 yards for ACTIVE guys but there is no set criteria. Look at the players who currently populate the sets. Then look at the stats of each and you will see there is no "minimum" bar.
Absolutely no numbers attached the QB or Defense sets. Nothing. You COULD literally have an All-Time Passing TD set, All-Time Passing Yards set, All-Time Completions set, All-Time Scoring Set, All-Time Receptions set, All-Time Receiving yards set, etc, etc, etc...This would mirror the upcoming INT ans Sack sets, where players are judged ONLY by the numbers and not if they were really an "All-Time" player. I guess that's where we are headed. A set for every stat category since there is no line to be crossed that equates to overkill.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
I thought one of the requirements for new additions to those all time RBs,WRs etc was meeting certain stat criteria? Am I mistaken?? >>
For ACTIVE current RBs, they need 10,000 yards. For retired guys, no criteria. For WRs, there is no set number. The rule of thumb has been 800 catches, 12,000 yards for ACTIVE guys but there is no set criteria. Look at the players who currently populate the sets. Then look at the stats of each and you will see there is no "minimum" bar.
Absolutely no numbers attached the QB or Defense sets. Nothing. You COULD literally have an All-Time Passing TD set, All-Time Passing Yards set, All-Time Completions set, All-Time Scoring Set, All-Time Receptions set, All-Time Receiving yards set, etc, etc, etc...This would mirror the upcoming INT ans Sack sets, where players are judged ONLY by the numbers and not if they were really an "All-Time" player. I guess that's where we are headed. A set for every stat category since there is no line to be crossed that equates to overkill.
Jason >>
look, i really dont care what sets people request. is there a lot of overkill. yes there sure is. to be honest i am not really all that fond of the "future" HOF sets that are up now. wasnt too much when they were debated and still have changed my mind. but hey this is both a free country (at least at last check) and PSA is free to run the registry the way they want to. if you think the sets with one or a small handful are bad. there are many that have been requested, added and the initial requester still hasnt loaded their set.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's