<< <i>No, there are actually several HOF'ers not in the all time rushers set. Clark Hinkle, Ken Strong, Jim Thorpe, Ollie Matson, Frank Gifford, Lenny Moore, Doak Walker, Bronko Nagurski (how is he not included?!!) I guess some of it has to do with the actual definition of a running back. Looks like the two way players were left out......
Dave >>
Same for the other sets. Not every HOFer is listed in the Key Card sets. Maybe we can start some more sets:
HOF QBs HOF RBs HOF WRs
Just a thought, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> look, i really dont care what sets people request. is there a lot of overkill. yes there sure is. to be honest i am not really all that fond of the "future" HOF sets that are up now. wasnt too much when they were debated and still have changed my mind. but hey this is both a free country (at least at last check) and PSA is free to run the registry the way they want to. if you think the sets with one or a small handful are bad. there are many that have been requested, added and the initial requester still hasnt loaded their set. >>
I really don't care either. As you agree, there is some overkill, and that was my only point of contention. As far as sets with zero listed, they would fall into the cateogry of sets that I would rather see deleted. You're right, it is PSA's Registry, and i don't think anyone has said otherwise. Based on the fact that they WANT more sets so more worthless cards get sent in for grading, there's no reason for them to not list anything and everything that gets requested. It's a shame it is like that, but it is. Much rather see more policing of the Registry.
As far as the "future" sets go, I'd say they've been pretty successful and popular and that's not really debatable. An excellent idea since MANY of us HOF collectors were already collecting these cards in anticipation of future election.
The stats:
Modern Set-43 registered sets, 12 sets over 75% completion, 28 sets over 25% Senior Set-21 registered sets, 9 sets over 75% completion, 17 sets over 25%
Again, my personal opinion, the Registry should be FOR THE MASSES. One guy collecting 10% of a set is not the masses. Make sets that others will have an interest in. After all, the Registry is built for COMPETITION AND COMPARISON amongst other like sets. If no one is pursuing the completion of a set, or only 1 or 2 guys are pursuing completion..What's the point? What's different than just listing these on the Showcase?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> look, i really dont care what sets people request. is there a lot of overkill. yes there sure is. to be honest i am not really all that fond of the "future" HOF sets that are up now. wasnt too much when they were debated and still have changed my mind. but hey this is both a free country (at least at last check) and PSA is free to run the registry the way they want to. if you think the sets with one or a small handful are bad. there are many that have been requested, added and the initial requester still hasnt loaded their set. >>
I really don't care either. As you agree, there is some overkill, and that was my only point of contention. As far as sets with zero listed, they would fall into the cateogry of sets that I would rather see deleted. You're right, it is PSA's Registry, and i don't think anyone has said otherwise. Based on the fact that they WANT more sets so more worthless cards get sent in for grading, there's no reason for them to not list anything and everything that gets requested. It's a shame it is like that, but it is. Much rather see more policing of the Registry.
As far as the "future" sets go, I'd say they've been pretty successful and popular and that's not really debatable. An excellent idea since MANY of us HOF collectors were already collecting these cards in anticipation of future election.
The stats:
Modern Set-43 registered sets, 12 sets over 75% completion, 28 sets over 25% Senior Set-21 registered sets, 9 sets over 75% completion, 17 sets over 25%
Again, my personal opinion, the Registry should be FOR THE MASSES. One guy collecting 10% of a set is not the masses. Make sets that others will have an interest in. After all, the Registry is built for COMPETITION AND COMPARISON amongst other like sets. If no one is pursuing the completion of a set, or only 1 or 2 guys are pursuing completion..What's the point? What's different than just listing these on the Showcase?
Jason >>
well then psa might as well just drop the ticket sets. only the superbowl, world series and 3000 hr club have more than 10 sets.
you feel its only about the competition. well that is not what psa says.
"Welcome to the PSA Set RegistrySM. The Registry contains information about hundreds of trading cards and tickets. Each set represents years of a collector's time and effort. The Registry is a way to recognize these great sets. At PSA, we have not forgotten that it is the collector's spirit that drives our industry. We would like to sincerely thank each collector for sharing his or her set with us. Some of the sets listed are without a doubt the finest in the world and are all significant accomplishments to be admired by all sports collectibles enthusiasts."
yes we all collect strange things. for example, i have a brett favre ticket collection that is on the registry. i have a ticket from nearly every game that he has started. i am sure not many people will be collecting it either (or at least not in PSA form). but i did buy nearly all of them off ebay, so there are others that do collect them. while i might not have much "competition" for the top set that wasnt the point of either my collection or my request for the psa set. i wanted to start a collection that i knew would be unique and have a way to show it to people that would be interested. yes i would hope someday to be considered for best ticket set of the year, something that will probably never happen with any of my PSA card sets.
showcase sets have no form at all. you could list your whole collection. second they dont provide any update as to what you need. at that rate you might as well just have your own excel sheet and forget PSA altogether. why even bother sending them anything. third, showcase sets also are not eligible for "best in category" awards. so, my ticket collection on the showcase would be completely ignored by PSA.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
How much harm does it cause to have other specialty sets listed? A few extra lines on one webpage that you have to scroll past to get to the set you care about isn't much of a problem IMO.
There are certainly unique sets and situations and exceptions to everything. My main complaint, as I've stated about 10 times now, is that VERY SIMILAR, almost overlapping sets of nearly the exact same collecting focus are bordering on overkill. That's my opinion, period.
Is it going to stop or change? No.
Can I request the All-Time Punters set or the All-Time Left Cornerback Set today? Absolutely.
Will I? No way, because I don't think those are worthy of inclusion on the Registry.
Do many here disagree? Looks that way.
Do some others agree with me? Looks that way too.
Is that ok? Absolutely, to each his own.
Request away, and best of luck having the #1 All-Time registered set with no 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place finishers. Sounds like a plan for those who are interested in that kinda thing. When the Key Card set category ends up looking like the Team set category you will have really accomplished something. Nice work.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>There are certainly unique sets and situations and exceptions to everything. My main complaint, as I've stated about 10 times now, is that VERY SIMILAR, almost overlapping sets of nearly the exact same collecting focus are bordering on overkill. That's my opinion, period.
Is it going to stop or change? No.
Can I request the All-Time Punters set or the All-Time Left Cornerback Set today? Absolutely.
Will I? No way, because I don't think those are worthy of inclusion on the Registry.
Do many here disagree? Looks that way.
Do some others agree with me? Looks that way too.
Is that ok? Absolutely, to each his own.
Request away, and best of luck having the #1 All-Time registered set with no 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place finishers. Sounds like a plan for those who are interested in that kinda thing. When the Key Card set category ends up looking like the Team set category you will have really accomplished something. Nice work.
Jason >>
Jason,
I was just liking the debate.
But you did state earlier that all sets not just overlapping sets that dont have to quote you here "I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them."
But when someone says something like that you should expect some debate back and forth.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
Once enough viewpoints are considered, one should recommend to PSA that in order to keep the Set Registry sustainable, competitive, and fun, that some control be exercised before complexity diminishes collectibility. Requiring a set to have 5+ members at 25% completion within 12 months of inception seems a reasonable one. Though those parameters could be tweaked, it seems a good starting point. Natural selection determines what is popular, hence sustained. PSA likes to put votes in the hands of the participants. A participant makes a de facto "vote" when they start a set.
Would this proposal make some existing sets go away right now? Yes. Would that help? Yes, usually. Would that make some sets go away that I like and participate in? Yes (Sid Luckman Player Set). Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. Will PSA go for this if proposed now? Probably not. Will PSA eventually go for this if proposed over time? Maybe.
If someone else has a platform to suggest to PSA where to draw the line, great. This week I have been dealing directly with PSA on a very weighty issue. I can't give details, but it will probably dramatically change my future collecting course. They sure don't need another suggestion directly from me right now. -Keith
But you did state earlier that all sets not just overlapping sets that dont have to quote you here "I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them."
But when someone says something like that you should expect some debate back and forth. >>
I don't mind a debate at all, so long as I am hearing an alternate solution. You've agreed that it is becoming overkill in SOME CASES, so what would your solution be in those cases? Do nothing? Let it be? Fair enough if that is your assessment. I made that comment as an example of something that could be done. I haven't petitioned PSA or done anything else with it. Just throwing out an idea that could be a possible way to mitigate the current circumstances. As Keith said, could certainly be tweaked to meet different criteria, but I would like to see SOME reasoning rather than simply uploading 25,000 different sets with one collecter on each. Agin, its just a matter of inclusive vs. exclusive. I favor inclusive and special over mass production to the point of meaningless.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. >>
This is also another opinion.
Some may think this good others may not.
There is no data to back up the claim that a myriad of sets will cause a mass exit of collector's from the registry. Everyone has there own opinions about what should be a set and that is fine, but it sounds like some are wanting to start governing what people can collect on the registry. This is what has happened to our government. Someone has an issue and imediately thinks we need a law to control or regulate it and the people. Remember, sometimes less government is the best government.
<< <i>Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. >>
This is also another opinion.
Some may think this good others may not.
There is no data to back up the claim that a myriad of sets will cause a mass exit of collector's from the registry. Everyone has there own opinions about what should be a set and that is fine, but it sounds like some are wanting to start governing what people can collect on the registry. This is what has happened to our government. Someone has an issue and imediately thinks we need a law to control or regulate it and the people. Remember, sometimes less government is the best government. >>
The only control I am advocating is SELF control when requesting these sets. For football key card its too easy. Jump on the forum here, as many have done in the past and ask the masses. That's how the HOF RC set was born. That's how the future sets were born, The Packers Hall of Fame set, etc. Why not gauge interest FIRST and then if it seems like something many of us would want to collect then submit it. If not, don't. Keep it to yourself. Make your own excel spreadsheet and collect what you want. I don't think PSA will do anything to limit sets. If we've learned anything over the years about applying any thought behind how we (as a group) want these sets to look is that it is UP TO US.
Also, I don't necessarily think it will cause a mass exodus (although anything is possible). But rather create a general malaise towards the key card sets that leads to demotivation and devaluation due to overpopulation. lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason, I would hardly say "it is up to us" PSA has changed several cards on some of these sets. Not entirely based on what the collector's want. I'm pretty sure we've already debated that though....lol
<< <i>Jason, I would hardly say "it is up to us" PSA has changed several cards on some of these sets. Not entirely based on what the collector's want. I'm pretty sure we've already debated that though....lol >>
Vince, I was talking about the sets and the players contained within them. Specifically key card sets that we've been discussing the last day or so. The card selection issues change everytime ONE collector comes along with a different opinion and pushes the issue with PSA. I think they suffer from trying to please everyone and not sticking to their own word or rules in many cases.
Dave, I was told (and Cosetta posted it ON THE SET PAGE--"Notes: This set requires specific cards. There will be no additions or deletions to the list of cards required") that no further changes would be made to the HOF RC set cards. Plus, the Matchbooks aren't listed in the Beckett Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia, so I think all the rookie card sets are safe. lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason. I was just kidding on the punters set. My collecting focus is mainly HOF'ERS. In some other sets at least the players were stars, such as the all time afl set. Even if they never are hof material most have value as cards due to scarcity in psa 8 or above. I also do ny yankee team sets (topps) and you would be surprised what some of the cards sell for in psa 10. I mean truly commons and never will be more than that. Its not unusual for a common to hit $100+ for a modern 1980's card. 1970's could be $500+
Has anyone looked at the recent players sets requested lately? Many would have 100% set completion in commons. So to each their own. Its their time and their money.
I would bet that the overall card sales for ebay that constitutes RC of HOF'ERS is quite low. The fact that sets are being requested means there is some interest. I don't think it hurts anyone else.
Will I collect the all time sacks set? NO.
What would happen to PSA as a company if all they ended up grading was rc's of HOF'ERS? If they went bankrupt would their graded cards hold value? Probably not. So to some extent it benefits us all that the other sets exist that we don't collect.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i> What would happen to PSA as a company if all they ended up grading was rc's of HOF'ERS? If they went bankrupt would their graded cards hold value? Probably not. So to some extent it benefits us all that the other sets exist that we don't collect. >>
Jay, I don't think anyone here has advocated anything of that nature. Just a little restraint every once in awhile is all. I'd be fine with the Sack and INT sets if that's it. But you see these other sets coming up, I mean to me it's just kinda crazy.
NFL All-Time #1 Draft Picks Football NFL AP Offensive Rookies Of The Year Football NFL AP Defensive Rookies Of The Year Football NFL AP MVP Award Football NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year Football NFL AP Defensive Player of the Year Football NFL AP Comeback Player of The Year Award Football NFL Annual Rushing Leaders
Most are simply unnecessary duplicates and will never have a big following. And it just seems there is no end in sight to these sets. I won't be surprised at this point to see an All-Time Punters set. Honestly. lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
But you did state earlier that all sets not just overlapping sets that dont have to quote you here "I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them."
But when someone says something like that you should expect some debate back and forth. >>
I don't mind a debate at all, so long as I am hearing an alternate solution. You've agreed that it is becoming overkill in SOME CASES, so what would your solution be in those cases? Do nothing? Let it be? Fair enough if that is your assessment. I made that comment as an example of something that could be done. I haven't petitioned PSA or done anything else with it. Just throwing out an idea that could be a possible way to mitigate the current circumstances. As Keith said, could certainly be tweaked to meet different criteria, but I would like to see SOME reasoning rather than simply uploading 25,000 different sets with one collecter on each. Agin, its just a matter of inclusive vs. exclusive. I favor inclusive and special over mass production to the point of meaningless.
Jason >>
Well one possible solution would be for you to create your own set registry website. that way you can have control over all the rules.
As some one said before, you dont have to even look at the sets that you dont want to look at. And even in the key card or hof sets for football you dont have to look through much to find the sets you want to look at. The other way of sorting through the waste and stupid collections (which i sense is your opinion of people interests that would collect those cards) is to go through your set registry page and look at the sets that you collect only.
Based on the quote that I posted which is how PSA has setup the registry they want a more open free format to sets.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i> Well one possible solution would be for you to create your own set registry website. that way you can have control over all the rules.
>>
Tocuhe'..lol
From now on, I will post all of my opinions on that website. Obviously I've ruffled feathers by posting my OPINION here. My mistake. Because controlling all the rules is EXACTLY the point I was getting at. lolol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. >>
This is also another opinion.
Some may think this good others may not.
There is no data to back up the claim that a myriad of sets will cause a mass exit of collector's from the registry. Everyone has there own opinions about what should be a set and that is fine, but it sounds like some are wanting to start governing what people can collect on the registry. This is what has happened to our government. Someone has an issue and imediately thinks we need a law to control or regulate it and the people. Remember, sometimes less government is the best government. >>
The only control I am advocating is SELF control when requesting these sets. For football key card its too easy. Jump on the forum here, as many have done in the past and ask the masses. That's how the HOF RC set was born. That's how the future sets were born, The Packers Hall of Fame set, etc. Why not gauge interest FIRST and then if it seems like something many of us would want to collect then submit it. If not, don't. Keep it to yourself. Make your own excel spreadsheet and collect what you want. I don't think PSA will do anything to limit sets. If we've learned anything over the years about applying any thought behind how we (as a group) want these sets to look is that it is UP TO US.
Also, I don't necessarily think it will cause a mass exodus (although anything is possible). But rather create a general malaise towards the key card sets that leads to demotivation and devaluation due to overpopulation. lol
Jason >>
Jason
I have only requested three sets that are not either a company set or a master player set (which the only one was the Favre master set). Those being, the Packer HOF set which Troy and I both asked many fellow Packer collectors about. While at the time many said that they didnt have plans on doing the set. Many have not added their cards in the last year. The other two sets are my Favre Start Streak Ticket collection and my Favre Playoff Ticket collection. I do collect other things that I would not even think about requesting a set for. But to say that sets should be removed if they dont have a certain number of people with sets above a certain completion percentage would be a little to restrictive. To be honest I dont see why you dont want others to request sets they enjoy or would want to see.
You say it is a waste of PSA's time to start these sets with a low number of people. But my question to you is do they (or you for that matter) know how many people are going start sets once its up. You can poll people all you want but your poll answers are always the final result. So you would prefer they waste the time to start a set, see how many people have the cards required with only a few months of the set going live and then pull it.
I agree some are out of whack. Can there really be an all-time Ravens team set already?!?! But someone requested it, outside of "your" design of only HOF or future HOFers. To each his own. Not everyone has your collecting focus.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i> Well one possible solution would be for you to create your own set registry website. that way you can have control over all the rules.
>>
Tocuhe'..lol
From now on, I will post all of my opinions on that website. Obviously I've ruffled feathers by posting my OPINION here. My mistake. Because controlling all the rules is EXACTLY the point I was getting at. lolol
Jason >>
Jason,
You really havent ruffled my feathers. As I said I just like a little debate every once in awhile. But there are times that you do coming across as only wanting things the way that you want them. Which is not the way that PSA setup the registry to be run.
Hey how about this, maybe PSA should poll all people that have a registry set about whether any requested set upcoming should be allowed in. It would have to get over 50% of the vote with over 50% of the total collectors voting for a set to be added. Only give people a few weeks to respond too. That would really work to slow down these are all other sets.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
I have only requested three sets that are not either a company set or a master player set (which the only one was the Favre master set). Those being, the Packer HOF set which Troy and I both asked many fellow Packer collectors about. While at the time many said that they didnt have plans on doing the set. Many have not added their cards in the last year. The other two sets are my Favre Start Streak Ticket collection and my Favre Playoff Ticket collection. I do collect other things that I would not even think about requesting a set for. But to say that sets should be removed if they dont have a certain number of people with sets above a certain completion percentage would be a little to restrictive. To be honest I dont see why you dont want others to request sets they enjoy or would want to see.
You say it is a waste of PSA's time to start these sets with a low number of people. But my question to you is do they (or you for that matter) know how many people are going start sets once its up. You can poll people all you want but your poll answers are always the final result. So you would prefer they waste the time to start a set, see how many people have the cards required with only a few months of the set going live and then pull it.
I agree some are out of whack. Can there really be an all-time Ravens team set already?!?! But someone requested it, outside of "your" design of only HOF or future HOFers. To each his own. Not everyone has your collecting focus. >>
No problem or issue with ANY of the sets you requested. Zero.
Once again YOU AGREE WITH ME that some are out of whack. Thank you for agreeing with the point I've been trying to make the entire time. Maybe you don't agree with some of my hypothetic solutions, but we at least agree that some of these sets are "out of whack". Now as a logically thinking person, would you not also agree that if something is out of whack, that maybe possibly a solution to correct those out of whack issues would be a consideration?
PSA isn't going to fix them. PSA WANTS as many listings as possible. They are a "for profit" business. But maybe possibly since most of these sets are being requested by fellow posters here on the board we could at least try and minimize the overkill moving forward. If not, so be it. List 500 sets of All-Time Punters and All-time Completion PCT leaders. Will it ultimately affect my personal collecting habits? NO. Could it possibly lead to over-population of Registry sets? it might, it might not. But why ruin a good thing?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I have only requested three sets that are not either a company set or a master player set (which the only one was the Favre master set). Those being, the Packer HOF set which Troy and I both asked many fellow Packer collectors about. While at the time many said that they didnt have plans on doing the set. Many have not added their cards in the last year. The other two sets are my Favre Start Streak Ticket collection and my Favre Playoff Ticket collection. I do collect other things that I would not even think about requesting a set for. But to say that sets should be removed if they dont have a certain number of people with sets above a certain completion percentage would be a little to restrictive. To be honest I dont see why you dont want others to request sets they enjoy or would want to see.
You say it is a waste of PSA's time to start these sets with a low number of people. But my question to you is do they (or you for that matter) know how many people are going start sets once its up. You can poll people all you want but your poll answers are always the final result. So you would prefer they waste the time to start a set, see how many people have the cards required with only a few months of the set going live and then pull it.
I agree some are out of whack. Can there really be an all-time Ravens team set already?!?! But someone requested it, outside of "your" design of only HOF or future HOFers. To each his own. Not everyone has your collecting focus. >>
No problem or issue with ANY of the sets you requested. Zero.
Once again YOU AGREE WITH ME that some are out of whack. Thank you for agreeing with the point I've been trying to make the entire time. Maybe you don't agree with some of my hypothetic solutions, but we at least agree that some of these sets are "out of whack". Now as a logically thinking person, would you not also agree that if something is out of whack, that maybe possibly a solution to correct those out of whack issues would be a consideration?
PSA isn't going to fix them. PSA WANTS as many listings as possible. They are a "for profit" business. But maybe possibly since most of these sets are being requested by fellow posters here on the board we could at least try and minimize the overkill moving forward. If not, so be it. List 500 sets of All-Time Punters and All-time Completion PCT leaders. Will it ultimately affect my personal collecting habits? NO. Could it possibly lead to over-population of Registry sets? it might, it might not. But why ruin a good thing?
Jason >>
Well the problem that I have with your solution is that it would end sets that you have admitted may have a place on the registry. Blanket restrictions would in some cases be almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
However, based on the way the PSA started the registry it is not out of whack with their policy. I am sure we all think some of these sets are out of whack, so just dont collect them. I have always thought that the mega sets were strange. I mean, the same people that have the top individual sets are going to have the top mega sets too. Those sets are just filling up as space as well. But some people like them, in this case, I think more so for the free subs. I admit, its part of the reason why I have my All-Time WR Auto (etc)sets. They allow me to use the same cards from my HOF auto set, in another set which I can get another free grade or two without having to put much additional funds into the set. The problem with the auto sets is that they cant be added to the PSA/DNA registry because they auto isnt graded. I would love to see PSA grade both the auto and the card. I much prefer to have the card grade at the present, then having just the auto graded. As for my habits the card's condition are as important as the auto. But for now this is the only place those cards can reside. Maybe, PSA needs to have an auto'd card tab and move all the auto cards from the key card tab. That would solve some of your issues I think. That way you wouldnt have to see them in the Key card tab.
PSA might have the same feeling that you do, about ruining a good thing. I am sure that the Registry has been a boon for their bottom line. I know I have subbed cards that I probably otherwise wouldnt have. You probably havent as your collection is very focused.
So, how does (or did) Beckett run their registry? Do they have a better policy that PSA might consider adopting.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
You really havent ruffled my feathers. As I said I just like a little debate every once in awhile. But there are times that you do coming across as only wanting things the way that you want them. Which is not the way that PSA setup the registry to be run.
Hey how about this, maybe PSA should poll all people that have a registry set about whether any requested set upcoming should be allowed in. It would have to get over 50% of the vote with over 50% of the total collectors voting for a set to be added. Only give people a few weeks to respond too. That would really work to slow down these are all other sets. >>
I'd be fine with that. But PSA will never do it. Why would they? This has to be self policing. The ONLY SETS I am talking about are the HOF and Key Card sets, I don't know enough about the others to have an opinion on them. Many of the collectors of those sets post and/or read the message boards. So why not post here first and gauge the OPINIONS of everyone and who would be interested in completing the set? Is that too tough?
I'm sure you agree that if you are not collecting a set to COMPLETION, well you aren't really collecting or chasing that set. To me that is the simplest solution. If you have 3 or 4 guys here that say yeah they would want to complete the set to 100%, then by all means request it.
Also, the definition of a debate is "a formal method of interactive and representational argument". Someone telling me to go start my own website so I can have total control is not exactly a debate, but more like a flame session. If you want to debate point/counter-point by all means lets do it, but lets do it in a civil way that respects each others opinions. We can agree to disagree on some things. Nothing wrong with that.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Well the problem that I have with your solution is that it would end sets that you have admitted may have a place on the registry. Blanket restrictions would in some cases be almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
However, based on the way the PSA started the registry it is not out of whack with their policy. I am sure we all think some of these sets are out of whack, so just dont collect them. I have always thought that the mega sets were strange. I mean, the same people that have the top individual sets are going to have the top mega sets too. Those sets are just filling up as space as well. But some people like them, in this case, I think more so for the free subs. I admit, its part of the reason why I have my All-Time WR Auto (etc)sets. They allow me to use the same cards from my HOF auto set, in another set which I can get another free grade or two without having to put much additional funds into the set. The problem with the auto sets is that they cant be added to the PSA/DNA registry because they auto isnt graded. I would love to see PSA grade both the auto and the card. I much prefer to have the card grade at the present, then having just the auto graded. As for my habits the card's condition are as important as the auto. But for now this is the only place those cards can reside. Maybe, PSA needs to have an auto'd card tab and move all the auto cards from the key card tab. That would solve some of your issues I think. That way you wouldnt have to see them in the Key card tab.
PSA might have the same feeling that you do, about ruining a good thing. I am sure that the Registry has been a boon for their bottom line. I know I have subbed cards that I probably otherwise wouldnt have. You probably havent as your collection is very focused.
So, how does (or did) Beckett run their registry? Do they have a better policy that PSA might consider adopting. >>
-I NEVER advocated for a blanket restriction. I have spoken STRICTLY on the HOF and Key card sets. PERIOD. And my ideas were just that ideas, just like yours of have PSA send out a poll about new sets. I have not pushed for any type of restrictions.
-The Mega sets have their OWN CATEGORY. I don't have to wade through 100 mega set listings to find a set I may have interest in.
-I am currently in discussions with the Registry folks to have the Autograph sets moved to their own category. Like the Mega Sets. May or may not happen, but I agree, that would help de-clutter.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
You really havent ruffled my feathers. As I said I just like a little debate every once in awhile. But there are times that you do coming across as only wanting things the way that you want them. Which is not the way that PSA setup the registry to be run.
Hey how about this, maybe PSA should poll all people that have a registry set about whether any requested set upcoming should be allowed in. It would have to get over 50% of the vote with over 50% of the total collectors voting for a set to be added. Only give people a few weeks to respond too. That would really work to slow down these are all other sets. >>
I'd be fine with that. But PSA will never do it. Why would they? This has to be self policing. The ONLY SETS I am talking about are the HOF and Key Card sets, I don't know enough about the others to have an opinion on them. Many of the collectors of those sets post and/or read the message boards. So why not post here first and gauge the OPINIONS of everyone and who would be interested in completing the set? Is that too tough?
I'm sure you agree that if you are not collecting a set to COMPLETION, well you aren't really collecting or chasing that set. To me that is the simplest solution. If you have 3 or 4 guys here that say yeah they would want to complete the set to 100%, then by all means request it.
Also, the definition of a debate is "a formal method of interactive and representational argument". Someone telling me to go start my own website so I can have total control is not exactly a debate, but more like a flame session. If you want to debate point/counter-point by all means lets do it, but lets do it in a civil way that respects each others opinions. We can agree to disagree on some things. Nothing wrong with that.
Jason >>
I was not trying to flame but trying to offer a possible answer. When you express your thoughts on issues like this it comes across as being either your way or the high way. That was my way of countering that.
As for the definition of debate your presented, any "debate" on a message board could never be considered one. as most discussion on boards are rarely "formal" and full discourse is generally difficult to get to.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
<< <i> Well the problem that I have with your solution is that it would end sets that you have admitted may have a place on the registry. Blanket restrictions would in some cases be almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
However, based on the way the PSA started the registry it is not out of whack with their policy. I am sure we all think some of these sets are out of whack, so just dont collect them. I have always thought that the mega sets were strange. I mean, the same people that have the top individual sets are going to have the top mega sets too. Those sets are just filling up as space as well. But some people like them, in this case, I think more so for the free subs. I admit, its part of the reason why I have my All-Time WR Auto (etc)sets. They allow me to use the same cards from my HOF auto set, in another set which I can get another free grade or two without having to put much additional funds into the set. The problem with the auto sets is that they cant be added to the PSA/DNA registry because they auto isnt graded. I would love to see PSA grade both the auto and the card. I much prefer to have the card grade at the present, then having just the auto graded. As for my habits the card's condition are as important as the auto. But for now this is the only place those cards can reside. Maybe, PSA needs to have an auto'd card tab and move all the auto cards from the key card tab. That would solve some of your issues I think. That way you wouldnt have to see them in the Key card tab.
PSA might have the same feeling that you do, about ruining a good thing. I am sure that the Registry has been a boon for their bottom line. I know I have subbed cards that I probably otherwise wouldnt have. You probably havent as your collection is very focused.
So, how does (or did) Beckett run their registry? Do they have a better policy that PSA might consider adopting. >>
-I NEVER advocated for a blanket restriction. I have spoken STRICTLY on the HOF and Key card sets. PERIOD. And my ideas were just that ideas, just like yours of have PSA send out a poll about new sets. I have not pushed for any type of restrictions.
-The Mega sets have their OWN CATEGORY. I don't have to wade through 100 mega set listings to find a set I may have interest in.
-I am currently in discussions with the Registry folks to have the Autograph sets moved to their own category. Like the Mega Sets. May or may not happen, but I agree, that would help de-clutter.
Jason >>
This seemed like a blanket statement to me. " I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. "
I am not sure how PSA could apply this only to Football key card sets, with out having to apply it to all sets.
Yes I agree that some of these sets are strange. But that doesnt mean they should go away, just because we either dont like the composition of the set or even the idea of that set. PSA would have to change their whole concept of the registry to be a more limited style...ie only sets that they deem are collecting worthy. Which I dont think PSA would want to do. That would be telling some customers, sure we will grade your cards (ie take your money) but we really think your collecting habbits are out of whack with the mainstream or are strange.
They could de-clutter/regroup sets better. Like auto sets, all time college sets etc. But you have to look at this from PSA's side as well. I would assume that the registry is a big part of their business model, including as many sets in the registry increases their potential client base. Limiting the sets, on the other hand would be a detriment to that model in that they might possibly be excluding potential clients. Which in this economy not many business can afford to do. How to regroup, some of these sets that are in line to be uploaded will be tough.
Look, as I have learned from many things you can never please all the people all the time. You do your best to please as many as you can. So maybe the best way for PSA to deal with this is to put out some kind of poll to people. Some people might not care at all as to what sets are uploaded, (ie they like the freedom of being able to publish their own sets) maybe more agree with you in that if it doesnt fit the "mainstream" view those collections are unworthy of the PSA registry. However, I dont think PSA really wants to alienate collectors.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
I don't understand what the big fuss is? Collect what you enjoy and leave it at that. The only set I ever look at on the registry is the HOF RC set. I have a direct link to it. I never see any other sets and honestly dont care if there are a million sets listed. I would never look at them any way.
It is my opinion that, for example, the all time packers set......Maybe there is a die hard packer fan that starts collecting this set only, and then realizes that he loves the looks of the older cards, then decides to exapand into the HOF RC set? That would be a good thing for the set registry and the hobby...........
If someone wants to collect the all time punters set...go for it!
<< <i>I don't understand what the big fuss is? Collect what you enjoy and leave it at that. The only set I ever look at on the registry is the HOF RC set. I have a direct link to it. I never see any other sets and honestly dont care if there are a million sets listed. I would never look at them any way.
It is my opinion that, for example, the all time packers set......Maybe there is a die hard packer fan that starts collecting this set only, and then realizes that he loves the looks of the older cards, then decides to exapand into the HOF RC set? That would be a good thing for the set registry and the hobby...........
If someone wants to collect the all time punters set...go for it!
Dave >>
You're right Dave. It really isn't a big deal, at least not to me. I expressed my opinion on it. Hoped that moving forward some discretion or control will be exhibited amongst ourselves so the Registry doesn't become a farce (which is how I view say the Team Set category for example). But if not, oh well. It won't affect how or what I collect. I'm like you, I rarely view anything other than the HOF RC sets or my own inventory. I was trying to think outside the box as an outsider coming in and seeing 500 sets, where 250 of them are almost identical cards and players.
I've made my opinion known as have you and some others. So it's on the table, we know each others take. Nothing much more to add. Obviously there will be no resolution here because many don;t think there is any issue at all. So be it.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> This seemed like a blanket statement to me. " I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. " >>
A blanket statement that begins with the words "I wish"? lolol
Ok man, you win. List 5,000 sets. I've changed my mind, I want as many as possible. Let's not stop until we can make the HOF and Key Card categories look like the Team Set category. I'm all in.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>When you express your thoughts on issues like this it comes across as being either your way or the high way. >>
Isn't that the definition of an opinion?
My apolgies if I speak my mind. Since we can't seem to agree to disagree, then I will change my mind for you. I'm now all for MAXIMUM setage. Let's also make the HOF RC set require EVERY MULTIPLE RC of each individual player. Let's also expand it to accept non-mainstream cards like the matchbooks, K-Mart cards, all those. What the heck, no limits, lets go for broke! I'm with you bro, lead the charge!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>When you express your thoughts on issues like this it comes across as being either your way or the high way. >>
Isn't that the definition of an opinion?
My apolgies if I speak my mind. Since we can't seem to agree to disagree, then I will change my mind for you. I'm now all for MAXIMUM setage. Let's also make the HOF RC set require EVERY MULTIPLE RC of each individual player. Let's also expand it to accept non-mainstream cards like the matchbooks, K-Mart cards, all those. What the heck, no limits, lets go for broke! I'm with you bro, lead the charge!
Jason >>
i dont care that you speak your mind. as long as you dont care that others speak theirs and that people form opinions on others based on how they speak their mind.
i dont want you to change your mind for me or anyone else. you ask for possible solutions. i was only stating that it would be hard to apply any change to only certain type of sets. i do believe that a blanket statement can start with the words "i wish". because in your opinion that is what you proposed. i just do not see how they could apply that to only football key card sets.
to go on with a rant about HOF RC set, matchbooks etc., is well beyond on the scope of this "debate". i thought the "debate" was about allowing or excluding certain sets. i never once said that I wanted multiple RC's, or any of the other things you went on about. they are apples and organes. one is about what sets should be allowed to exist on the registy (or how to limit sets allowe), while the other is the inclusion or exclusion of certain cards from an existing set. on that topic i think the set should stay with in the limits that set was created under. to say that i support these things is more than twisting my words it is flat out false, as i have never discussed any of those topics in this "debate".
i dont care that you dont agree with my feeling that it would be hard to limit the sets, but to go ahead and put words in my mouth is something that i thought you would never stoop too.
we can agree to disagree and end the debate. but to put words in my mouth saying that i support other things that i do not is something that i feel is completely out of line, unwarranted and slanderous.
Packers Fan for Life Collecting: Brett Favre Master Set Favre Ticket Stubs Favre TD Reciever Autos Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set Football HOF Rc's
To change the subject, Here is my latest upgrade to my set. My upgrades are coming few and far between now. We are breaking ground on a new home within the next week! I don't think I'm going to have to liquidate any of my set, but probably won't be able to upgrade much. This one was actually acquired in a trade.
OK....everyone is required to post a pic of their most recent HOF RC!!
<< <i>To change the subject, Here is my latest upgrade to my set. My upgrades are coming few and far between now. We are breaking ground on a new home within the next week! I don't think I'm going to have to liquidate any of my set, but probably won't be able to upgrade much. This one was actually acquired in a trade.
OK....everyone is required to post a pic of their most recent HOF RC!!
>>
Dave, congrats on the house! Hopefully you were able to get out Indianpolis Clots (mis-spelled on purpose) land..Maybe move to Florida? Jacksonville? lol
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
No, actually I'm moving about 10 minutes closer to Indy.....My wife works downtown Indy so it will be a shorter commute... Toughest part will be with my oldest (10 year old) changing school systems.
<< <i>No, actually I'm moving about 10 minutes closer to Indy.....My wife works downtown Indy so it will be a shorter commute... Toughest part will be with my oldest (10 year old) changing school systems.
Dave >>
Yeah, i know the feeling. Being an Army guy, i've moved the kids a few times. Luckily, i've been at my current duty station for 5 years come next month. It's been great for my youngest (15 year old) to stay with her same group of friends for so long. It's the longest she's every lived anywhere and I think that's important for a teen.
Best of luck, sorry you have to watch that terrible QB Peyton Manning every week.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
OK....everyone is required to post a pic of their most recent HOF RC!!
>>
Nice card, Dave! I should be getting my "most recent" in the mail in the next week or so. When I do, I owe Keith a phone call so he can teach me photobucket and I can start posting some stuff here.
There's actually an even easier way to upload pics here than Photobucket if you have scans of your cards on the Registry.
-Go to your "My Inventory" -Click on the scan of the card you want to post -Once the picture opens, right click and select "Properties" -Copy and past the URL, should look something like this: http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/1121/31141714/35battles75.jpg -Come back to the message board -Clck the little Image button (4th button from the left between the "U" and the "http") -When the box opens, right click "Paste" -Post the message and presto, you have a pic posted on the message board!
Hope that helps anyone who doesn't know how to do it, and gives you more reasons to upload scans for those who haven't yet!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Gentlemen, love the spirited debate, the thread has been a bit dry lately. Regardless of what your opinion is, the bottom line is PSA will never stop the set additions, why would they? We are in this for the enjoyment of collecting(I am) but make no mistake about it, PSA would love to grade every single card ever produced in every sport. They are in busines to make money.....period.
Anything after profits is simply icing on the cake(promoting the hobby, connecting other collectors, etc.). I, like Dave, never even look at the other sets on the registry, I simply don't care to. It is however in our best interests to hope that PSA remains a profitable/viable company because if they ever went BK for example what do you think that would do to the value of our collections? What would you rather have a GAI 8 Jim Brown or a PSA 8 Jim Brown? Nuff said. Just wanted to add my 2 cents!!
I just wanted to state that my intent was not to clutter the key card sets with worthless sets, but to start some sets that others might find interesting and have some fun. That's the main reason I come to this forum in my spare time is to have an escape and have some fun. I don't find heated debates much fun, have too many of them at work or with my 12 year old daughter to clean her room, lol. I get great enjoyment out of researching the sets and looking up the best cards for the checklists. But I get the message I will cool it with the set requests. Let me say again that I very much enjoy being on this forum and don't want to detract from it but add to it.
I think that limiting the Key Card and HOF Sets was an interesting topic and it's clear that no consensus could be reached. With Player Sets, eventually PSA will probably institute some sort of alphabetical buttons A-Z that the user will select in order to view all the choices for players with the last name that corresponds with that one alphabetical letter. That will de-clutter while keeping entries relatively inclusive. That's de facto "regrouping" like JRadke mentioned.
With Key Card and HOF Sets, there is a "cost" for each of us associated with each set's development. Only so many sets can be developed in a certain period of time, and it looks like exception is taken when limited-interest themes take precedent while ones with wider appeal wait. Users all "pay" for PSA to develop sets in one way or another. It keeps PSA's resources from doing something else potentially helpful. Yes, self-control is key - great point to whomever made that one.
When I looked into developing the Van Buren Player Set months ago, I started a thread and saw scans and interest from others. Those acts made me feel validated in seeing through to the Set Request. Maybe the All-Time Punters Set will run the same course. If it's got the participation, great. It doesn't matter that I won't participate. Another thread originator (ArnyVee I think?) shows loads of enthusiasm and patience over time for his NFL Rookie Of The Year Thread (or similar name), with support from others. Even though I have no plans to do that one either, I kind of hope that it makes it because sustainable interest is evident!
Jason P., tight-looking Cliff Battles scan that you shared! Thanks! That's a terrific card. In fact, I just recently upgraded my Battles 6 with the Battles 7 from the latest Mile High auction. I await receiving the beauty any day!
Tom, I'm with you. The worst scan beats the most respectful debate every day of the year...
Mike Denero's is getting me going with a new, better scanner if I ever take it out of the box.
Remember the dreaded Set Re-weightings issue from a few months back? The posts on this board helped improve things tremendously. It was easier too because there was consensus there. Also, that topic was an exact match for the thread title.
As for this issue of limiting onerous and arcane Sets Requests, does anyone else think that the issue might have had more input if it's own thread had been originated? I think that more posters could have felt "included", thus giving us a wider range of opinion. Of course, the growing issue is not specific only to football either. Though this thread is titled the "Official Football HOF Rookies" thread, it really seems to be "The Football Thread".
Originating a post titled something like "Discussion of limits to Key Card and HOF Set Requests" would have made it easier to find key information later. Now that this thread is 6,000+ posts deep, interesting things germane to the thread name get buried. For example, Yak's list of this set's hardest cards to find centered and Jason P.'s list of HOFers that shouldn't be HOFers is quickly buried and hard to find. Such lists are highly interesting and to compile them is the product of applied experience, some of which just can't be found elsewhere. Either way that was great stuff, and thanks! I'll dig them up anyway. -Keith
<< <i>As for this issue of limiting onerous and arcane Sets Requests, does anyone else think that the issue might have had more input if it's own thread had been originated? I think that more posters could have felt "included", thus giving us a wider range of opinion. Of course, the growing issue is not specific only to football either. Though this thread is titled the "Official Football HOF Rookies" thread, it really seems to be "The Football Thread". >>
<< <i>As for this issue of limiting onerous and arcane Sets Requests, does anyone else think that the issue might have had more input if it's own thread had been originated? I think that more posters could have felt "included", thus giving us a wider range of opinion. Of course, the growing issue is not specific only to football either. Though this thread is titled the "Official Football HOF Rookies" thread, it really seems to be "The Football Thread". >>
Thats why I wanted to get us back "on course"... >>
Agreed. Nice work Dave. Thanks personally for helping refocusing my compass bearings.
I intended no ill repute towards Tom or anyone else. I'm an opinionated guy in general. When I truly believe in something, and believe in my opinion I will argue and/or debate that belief to no end. For whatever reason, on more than one occasion, I've been told that others feel I am in "my way or the highway" mode when I am arguing a point. Which is actually correct, but ONLY as it relates to my own personal opinions. I never feel as though I am talking down to anyone and do not believe my opinion carries any more weight than any other person on the message board. We can agree to disagree. In the future, I hope we can continue having our debates and continue having our own opinions. I promise I won't hate anyone here if you don't agree with me on every issue..lol
Tom, I think you've done a GREAT job on the sets you have requested. You've done due diligence to ensure the best players and right cards were included. I hope you won't quit cold turkey, as your motivation and wealthy of ideas is certainly welcome. Moving forward, maybe pop in here on this thread or start a new thread and gauge interest, get opinions. We've had great success with sets (like the HOF RC set) when we all sat down and beat up the keyboard with our thoughts first. There is a vast resource of football and/or card knowledge among this group of HOF RC collectors. I don't think there's much out there at least one of us doesn't know a little about.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I intended no ill repute towards Tom or anyone else. I'm an opinionated guy in general. When I truly believe in something, and believe in my opinion I will argue and/or debate that belief to no end. For whatever reason, on more than one occasion, I've been told that others feel I am in "my way or the highway" mode when I am arguing a point. Which is actually correct, but ONLY as it relates to my own personal opinions. I never feel as though I am talking down to anyone and do not believe my opinion carries any more weight than any other person on the message board. We can agree to disagree. In the future, I hope we can continue having our debates and continue having our own opinions. I promise I won't hate anyone here if you don't agree with me on every issue..lol
Tom did an excellent job of helping me with the All-Time Sixers Set a while back.
Jason P., I know where you are. I found with my own Message Board posts that if I don't preface what is obviously my opinion with "In my opinion...", then persons senselessly rebut with "That's just your opinion". Well, of course it's my opinion as long as it's not a statement of fact. Of course it's the respective poster's opinion. State the opinion and let's work it out.
Sheesh, must everyone write "The above is only my opinion" in their signature line? I mean really, who else's opinion would it be? Keith Olbermann's? Rush Limbaugh's? Roger Goodell's? No, it's my opinion. No kidding.
My latest little ditty for Denero's, complete with a shout-out to our great set...
The 1951 Bowman #91 Emlen Tunnell (Rookie Card)
If offense wins games and defense wins championships, then what does the player nicknamed “Offense On Defense” give you? Two NFL Championships and a Hall of Fame career. The flattering moniker was coined for New York Giants defensive back Emlen Tunnell after the 1952 season, when he compiled more yards in interception and kickoff returns than the leading rusher had rushing.
When Tunnell retired, he held the All-Time NFL career record with 79 interceptions, a mark that is still second today (Paul Krause). Additionally, Em was the first African-American to play for the New York Giants and the first African-American to be enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. So how could a 9-time Pro Bowl standout playing a major sport for a legacy franchise in the nation’s biggest city largely fly under the radar? That is a valid question.
Marion Motley and other pioneers are credited with breaking the NFL’s racial barrier. With a Giants franchise chock full of greats, Tunnell’s star has been outshone. In fact, today Em’s Wikipedia page includes the grand sum total of six sentences. At least it couldn’t get worse.
It gets worse. The most famous photo of Tunnell is probably the one where he is being blocked by the Colts’ Jim Parker while Parker’s Colt teammate Alan Ameche scores the game-winning overtime touchdown to defeat Tunnell’s New York Giants in the 1958 NFL Championship Game.
So where does Emlen Tunnell get any respect today? Cardboard. His 1951 Bowman rookie card is popular and high-grade examples are valuable. The handsome and enduring rectangle is part of SGC’s and PSA’s adored Pro Football Hall of Fame Rookie Card set registries. Examples graded in PSA 8 condition have sold for over $900.
The card booms with eye appeal. It features Tunnell striking his best “Heisman” pose while donning a Giants jersey saturated in deep rouge, a jersey which contrasts sharply with the shaded stadium seats in the background. Em is cradling the pigskin with his left hand as if he has just intercepted a Norm Van Brocklin pass. Logos were more detailed in those days, and that of the “New York Football Giants” appears large relative to the card to accommodate its intricacy. Characteristic of the wonderful 1951 Bowman issue, the card is a sweeping display of artistry, color, and composure that cements Tunnell some lasting respect…at least among vintage football memorabilia collectors.
Jasen, ...and what a first post it is! A breathtaking Creekmur there! Being a POP 3, none higher, and not knowing what the SGC population is, you are the owner of what is a candidate for the best-looking Creekmur RC in the world! Congrats and thanks for sharing it here. Great, we've got another registrant posting scans now. -Keith
<< <i> Sheesh, must everyone write "The above is only my opinion" in their signature line? I mean really, who else's opinion would it be? Keith Olbermann's? Rush Limbaugh's? Roger Goodell's? No, it's my opinion. No kidding. >>
OTW does. In his sigline is MOO, which stands for "My opinion only" Ive always thought that was funny, coming from one of the most stubborn, opinionated guys on here
What a great looking Creekmur Jasen, beauty man, and thanks for posting it
Chiming in here, I could care less what people collect, or how many registries there are that I have to wade through to be able to check in on my 88 topps set, or if there's a punters set. I wont collect it, but I dont mind having it "clutter up" the key card sets either. Ive gotten used to skipping the autographed versions of the WR, QB etc. sets to check in on the regular ones. Inconvenience, not really. Let em collect what they want to collect, it is a hobby after all.
great article Keith, you forget how good some of these guys really are until you refresh it like that.
Thanks to recent instructions from Jason I can post a pic.
In response to dave's requirement we post latest additions. This is mine. Have not added a card in a long time. Funny. But my psa 8 is a much better card than this 9. Oh well.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Comments
<< <i>No, there are actually several HOF'ers not in the all time rushers set. Clark Hinkle, Ken Strong, Jim Thorpe, Ollie Matson, Frank Gifford, Lenny Moore, Doak Walker, Bronko Nagurski (how is he not included?!!) I guess some of it has to do with the actual definition of a running back. Looks like the two way players were left out......
Dave >>
Same for the other sets. Not every HOFer is listed in the Key Card sets. Maybe we can start some more sets:
HOF QBs
HOF RBs
HOF WRs
Just a thought,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
look, i really dont care what sets people request. is there a lot of overkill. yes there sure is. to be honest i am not really all that fond of the "future" HOF sets that are up now. wasnt too much when they were debated and still have changed my mind. but hey this is both a free country (at least at last check) and PSA is free to run the registry the way they want to. if you think the sets with one or a small handful are bad. there are many that have been requested, added and the initial requester still hasnt loaded their set. >>
I really don't care either. As you agree, there is some overkill, and that was my only point of contention. As far as sets with zero listed, they would fall into the cateogry of sets that I would rather see deleted. You're right, it is PSA's Registry, and i don't think anyone has said otherwise. Based on the fact that they WANT more sets so more worthless cards get sent in for grading, there's no reason for them to not list anything and everything that gets requested. It's a shame it is like that, but it is. Much rather see more policing of the Registry.
As far as the "future" sets go, I'd say they've been pretty successful and popular and that's not really debatable. An excellent idea since MANY of us HOF collectors were already collecting these cards in anticipation of future election.
The stats:
Modern Set-43 registered sets, 12 sets over 75% completion, 28 sets over 25%
Senior Set-21 registered sets, 9 sets over 75% completion, 17 sets over 25%
Again, my personal opinion, the Registry should be FOR THE MASSES. One guy collecting 10% of a set is not the masses. Make sets that others will have an interest in. After all, the Registry is built for COMPETITION AND COMPARISON amongst other like sets. If no one is pursuing the completion of a set, or only 1 or 2 guys are pursuing completion..What's the point? What's different than just listing these on the Showcase?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
look, i really dont care what sets people request. is there a lot of overkill. yes there sure is. to be honest i am not really all that fond of the "future" HOF sets that are up now. wasnt too much when they were debated and still have changed my mind. but hey this is both a free country (at least at last check) and PSA is free to run the registry the way they want to. if you think the sets with one or a small handful are bad. there are many that have been requested, added and the initial requester still hasnt loaded their set. >>
I really don't care either. As you agree, there is some overkill, and that was my only point of contention. As far as sets with zero listed, they would fall into the cateogry of sets that I would rather see deleted. You're right, it is PSA's Registry, and i don't think anyone has said otherwise. Based on the fact that they WANT more sets so more worthless cards get sent in for grading, there's no reason for them to not list anything and everything that gets requested. It's a shame it is like that, but it is. Much rather see more policing of the Registry.
As far as the "future" sets go, I'd say they've been pretty successful and popular and that's not really debatable. An excellent idea since MANY of us HOF collectors were already collecting these cards in anticipation of future election.
The stats:
Modern Set-43 registered sets, 12 sets over 75% completion, 28 sets over 25%
Senior Set-21 registered sets, 9 sets over 75% completion, 17 sets over 25%
Again, my personal opinion, the Registry should be FOR THE MASSES. One guy collecting 10% of a set is not the masses. Make sets that others will have an interest in. After all, the Registry is built for COMPETITION AND COMPARISON amongst other like sets. If no one is pursuing the completion of a set, or only 1 or 2 guys are pursuing completion..What's the point? What's different than just listing these on the Showcase?
Jason >>
well then psa might as well just drop the ticket sets. only the superbowl, world series and 3000 hr club have more than 10 sets.
you feel its only about the competition. well that is not what psa says.
"Welcome to the PSA Set RegistrySM. The Registry contains information about hundreds of trading cards and tickets. Each set represents years of a collector's time and effort. The Registry is a way to recognize these great sets. At PSA, we have not forgotten that it is the collector's spirit that drives our industry. We would like to sincerely thank each collector for sharing his or her set with us. Some of the sets listed are without a doubt the finest in the world and are all significant accomplishments to be admired by all sports collectibles enthusiasts."
yes we all collect strange things. for example, i have a brett favre ticket collection that is on the registry. i have a ticket from nearly every game that he has started. i am sure not many people will be collecting it either (or at least not in PSA form). but i did buy nearly all of them off ebay, so there are others that do collect them. while i might not have much "competition" for the top set that wasnt the point of either my collection or my request for the psa set. i wanted to start a collection that i knew would be unique and have a way to show it to people that would be interested. yes i would hope someday to be considered for best ticket set of the year, something that will probably never happen with any of my PSA card sets.
showcase sets have no form at all. you could list your whole collection. second they dont provide any update as to what you need. at that rate you might as well just have your own excel sheet and forget PSA altogether. why even bother sending them anything. third, showcase sets also are not eligible for "best in category" awards. so, my ticket collection on the showcase would be completely ignored by PSA.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Is it going to stop or change? No.
Can I request the All-Time Punters set or the All-Time Left Cornerback Set today? Absolutely.
Will I? No way, because I don't think those are worthy of inclusion on the Registry.
Do many here disagree? Looks that way.
Do some others agree with me? Looks that way too.
Is that ok? Absolutely, to each his own.
Request away, and best of luck having the #1 All-Time registered set with no 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place finishers. Sounds like a plan for those who are interested in that kinda thing. When the Key Card set category ends up looking like the Team set category you will have really accomplished something. Nice work.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>There are certainly unique sets and situations and exceptions to everything. My main complaint, as I've stated about 10 times now, is that VERY SIMILAR, almost overlapping sets of nearly the exact same collecting focus are bordering on overkill. That's my opinion, period.
Is it going to stop or change? No.
Can I request the All-Time Punters set or the All-Time Left Cornerback Set today? Absolutely.
Will I? No way, because I don't think those are worthy of inclusion on the Registry.
Do many here disagree? Looks that way.
Do some others agree with me? Looks that way too.
Is that ok? Absolutely, to each his own.
Request away, and best of luck having the #1 All-Time registered set with no 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place finishers. Sounds like a plan for those who are interested in that kinda thing. When the Key Card set category ends up looking like the Team set category you will have really accomplished something. Nice work.
Jason >>
Jason,
I was just liking the debate.
But you did state earlier that all sets not just overlapping sets that dont have to quote you here "I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them."
But when someone says something like that you should expect some debate back and forth.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Would this proposal make some existing sets go away right now? Yes.
Would that help? Yes, usually.
Would that make some sets go away that I like and participate in? Yes (Sid Luckman Player Set).
Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes.
Will PSA go for this if proposed now? Probably not.
Will PSA eventually go for this if proposed over time? Maybe.
If someone else has a platform to suggest to PSA where to draw the line, great. This week I have been dealing directly with PSA on a very weighty issue. I can't give details, but it will probably dramatically change my future collecting course. They sure don't need another suggestion directly from me right now. -Keith
<< <i>
Jason,
I was just liking the debate.
But you did state earlier that all sets not just overlapping sets that dont have to quote you here "I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them."
But when someone says something like that you should expect some debate back and forth. >>
I don't mind a debate at all, so long as I am hearing an alternate solution. You've agreed that it is becoming overkill in SOME CASES, so what would your solution be in those cases? Do nothing? Let it be? Fair enough if that is your assessment. I made that comment as an example of something that could be done. I haven't petitioned PSA or done anything else with it. Just throwing out an idea that could be a possible way to mitigate the current circumstances. As Keith said, could certainly be tweaked to meet different criteria, but I would like to see SOME reasoning rather than simply uploading 25,000 different sets with one collecter on each. Agin, its just a matter of inclusive vs. exclusive. I favor inclusive and special over mass production to the point of meaningless.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. >>
This is also another opinion.
Some may think this good others may not.
There is no data to back up the claim that a myriad of sets will cause a mass exit of collector's from the registry. Everyone has there own opinions about what should be a set and that is fine, but it sounds like some are wanting to start governing what people can collect on the registry. This is what has happened to our government. Someone has an issue and imediately thinks we need a law to control or regulate it and the people. Remember, sometimes less government is the best government.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. >>
This is also another opinion.
Some may think this good others may not.
There is no data to back up the claim that a myriad of sets will cause a mass exit of collector's from the registry. Everyone has there own opinions about what should be a set and that is fine, but it sounds like some are wanting to start governing what people can collect on the registry. This is what has happened to our government. Someone has an issue and imediately thinks we need a law to control or regulate it and the people. Remember, sometimes less government is the best government. >>
The only control I am advocating is SELF control when requesting these sets. For football key card its too easy. Jump on the forum here, as many have done in the past and ask the masses. That's how the HOF RC set was born. That's how the future sets were born, The Packers Hall of Fame set, etc. Why not gauge interest FIRST and then if it seems like something many of us would want to collect then submit it. If not, don't. Keep it to yourself. Make your own excel spreadsheet and collect what you want. I don't think PSA will do anything to limit sets. If we've learned anything over the years about applying any thought behind how we (as a group) want these sets to look is that it is UP TO US.
Also, I don't necessarily think it will cause a mass exodus (although anything is possible). But rather create a general malaise towards the key card sets that leads to demotivation and devaluation due to overpopulation. lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
PSA has changed several cards on some of these sets. Not entirely based on what the collector's want.
I'm pretty sure we've already debated that though....lol
Does this mean they will be adding the 30's matchbooks to the HOF RC set? Talk about an uprising!!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Jason, I would hardly say "it is up to us"
PSA has changed several cards on some of these sets. Not entirely based on what the collector's want.
I'm pretty sure we've already debated that though....lol >>
Vince, I was talking about the sets and the players contained within them. Specifically key card sets that we've been discussing the last day or so. The card selection issues change everytime ONE collector comes along with a different opinion and pushes the issue with PSA. I think they suffer from trying to please everyone and not sticking to their own word or rules in many cases.
Dave, I was told (and Cosetta posted it ON THE SET PAGE--"Notes: This set requires specific cards. There will be no additions or deletions to the list of cards required") that no further changes would be made to the HOF RC set cards. Plus, the Matchbooks aren't listed in the Beckett Ultimate Rookie Card Encyclopedia, so I think all the rookie card sets are safe. lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
My collecting focus is mainly HOF'ERS. In some other sets at least the players were stars, such as the all time afl set. Even if they never are hof material most have value as cards due to scarcity in psa 8 or above.
I also do ny yankee team sets (topps) and you would be surprised what some of the cards sell for in psa 10. I mean truly commons and never will be more than that. Its not unusual for a common to hit $100+ for a modern 1980's card. 1970's could be $500+
Has anyone looked at the recent players sets requested lately? Many would have 100% set completion in commons.
So to each their own. Its their time and their money.
I would bet that the overall card sales for ebay that constitutes RC of HOF'ERS is quite low. The fact that sets are being requested means there is some interest. I don't think it hurts anyone else.
Will I collect the all time sacks set? NO.
What would happen to PSA as a company if all they ended up grading was rc's of HOF'ERS? If they went bankrupt would their graded cards hold value? Probably not. So to some extent it benefits us all that the other sets exist that we don't collect.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>
What would happen to PSA as a company if all they ended up grading was rc's of HOF'ERS? If they went bankrupt would their graded cards hold value? Probably not. So to some extent it benefits us all that the other sets exist that we don't collect. >>
Jay, I don't think anyone here has advocated anything of that nature. Just a little restraint every once in awhile is all. I'd be fine with the Sack and INT sets if that's it. But you see these other sets coming up, I mean to me it's just kinda crazy.
NFL All-Time #1 Draft Picks Football
NFL AP Offensive Rookies Of The Year Football
NFL AP Defensive Rookies Of The Year Football
NFL AP MVP Award Football
NFL AP Offensive Player of the Year Football
NFL AP Defensive Player of the Year Football
NFL AP Comeback Player of The Year Award Football
NFL Annual Rushing Leaders
Most are simply unnecessary duplicates and will never have a big following. And it just seems there is no end in sight to these sets. I won't be surprised at this point to see an All-Time Punters set. Honestly. lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Jason,
I was just liking the debate.
But you did state earlier that all sets not just overlapping sets that dont have to quote you here "I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. That way it reduces the clutter of these sets that were probably better left to the Showcase side of the Registry because the majority of the football collecting public really does not and will not ever have an interest in reaching 100% on them."
But when someone says something like that you should expect some debate back and forth. >>
I don't mind a debate at all, so long as I am hearing an alternate solution. You've agreed that it is becoming overkill in SOME CASES, so what would your solution be in those cases? Do nothing? Let it be? Fair enough if that is your assessment. I made that comment as an example of something that could be done. I haven't petitioned PSA or done anything else with it. Just throwing out an idea that could be a possible way to mitigate the current circumstances. As Keith said, could certainly be tweaked to meet different criteria, but I would like to see SOME reasoning rather than simply uploading 25,000 different sets with one collecter on each. Agin, its just a matter of inclusive vs. exclusive. I favor inclusive and special over mass production to the point of meaningless.
Jason >>
Well one possible solution would be for you to create your own set registry website. that way you can have control over all the rules.
As some one said before, you dont have to even look at the sets that you dont want to look at. And even in the key card or hof sets for football you dont have to look through much to find the sets you want to look at. The other way of sorting through the waste and stupid collections (which i sense is your opinion of people interests that would collect those cards) is to go through your set registry page and look at the sets that you collect only.
Based on the quote that I posted which is how PSA has setup the registry they want a more open free format to sets.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
Well one possible solution would be for you to create your own set registry website. that way you can have control over all the rules.
>>
Tocuhe'..lol
From now on, I will post all of my opinions on that website. Obviously I've ruffled feathers by posting my OPINION here. My mistake. Because controlling all the rules is EXACTLY the point I was getting at. lolol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is putting the greater good before my own interests most sustainable for the long-term? Yes. >>
This is also another opinion.
Some may think this good others may not.
There is no data to back up the claim that a myriad of sets will cause a mass exit of collector's from the registry. Everyone has there own opinions about what should be a set and that is fine, but it sounds like some are wanting to start governing what people can collect on the registry. This is what has happened to our government. Someone has an issue and imediately thinks we need a law to control or regulate it and the people. Remember, sometimes less government is the best government. >>
The only control I am advocating is SELF control when requesting these sets. For football key card its too easy. Jump on the forum here, as many have done in the past and ask the masses. That's how the HOF RC set was born. That's how the future sets were born, The Packers Hall of Fame set, etc. Why not gauge interest FIRST and then if it seems like something many of us would want to collect then submit it. If not, don't. Keep it to yourself. Make your own excel spreadsheet and collect what you want. I don't think PSA will do anything to limit sets. If we've learned anything over the years about applying any thought behind how we (as a group) want these sets to look is that it is UP TO US.
Also, I don't necessarily think it will cause a mass exodus (although anything is possible). But rather create a general malaise towards the key card sets that leads to demotivation and devaluation due to overpopulation. lol
Jason >>
Jason
I have only requested three sets that are not either a company set or a master player set (which the only one was the Favre master set). Those being, the Packer HOF set which Troy and I both asked many fellow Packer collectors about. While at the time many said that they didnt have plans on doing the set. Many have not added their cards in the last year. The other two sets are my Favre Start Streak Ticket collection and my Favre Playoff Ticket collection. I do collect other things that I would not even think about requesting a set for. But to say that sets should be removed if they dont have a certain number of people with sets above a certain completion percentage would be a little to restrictive. To be honest I dont see why you dont want others to request sets they enjoy or would want to see.
You say it is a waste of PSA's time to start these sets with a low number of people. But my question to you is do they (or you for that matter) know how many people are going start sets once its up. You can poll people all you want but your poll answers are always the final result. So you would prefer they waste the time to start a set, see how many people have the cards required with only a few months of the set going live and then pull it.
I agree some are out of whack. Can there really be an all-time Ravens team set already?!?! But someone requested it, outside of "your" design of only HOF or future HOFers. To each his own. Not everyone has your collecting focus.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
<< <i>
Well one possible solution would be for you to create your own set registry website. that way you can have control over all the rules.
>>
Tocuhe'..lol
From now on, I will post all of my opinions on that website. Obviously I've ruffled feathers by posting my OPINION here. My mistake. Because controlling all the rules is EXACTLY the point I was getting at. lolol
Jason >>
Jason,
You really havent ruffled my feathers. As I said I just like a little debate every once in awhile. But there are times that you do coming across as only wanting things the way that you want them. Which is not the way that PSA setup the registry to be run.
Hey how about this, maybe PSA should poll all people that have a registry set about whether any requested set upcoming should be allowed in. It would have to get over 50% of the vote with over 50% of the total collectors voting for a set to be added. Only give people a few weeks to respond too. That would really work to slow down these are all other sets.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
I have only requested three sets that are not either a company set or a master player set (which the only one was the Favre master set). Those being, the Packer HOF set which Troy and I both asked many fellow Packer collectors about. While at the time many said that they didnt have plans on doing the set. Many have not added their cards in the last year. The other two sets are my Favre Start Streak Ticket collection and my Favre Playoff Ticket collection. I do collect other things that I would not even think about requesting a set for. But to say that sets should be removed if they dont have a certain number of people with sets above a certain completion percentage would be a little to restrictive. To be honest I dont see why you dont want others to request sets they enjoy or would want to see.
You say it is a waste of PSA's time to start these sets with a low number of people. But my question to you is do they (or you for that matter) know how many people are going start sets once its up. You can poll people all you want but your poll answers are always the final result. So you would prefer they waste the time to start a set, see how many people have the cards required with only a few months of the set going live and then pull it.
I agree some are out of whack. Can there really be an all-time Ravens team set already?!?! But someone requested it, outside of "your" design of only HOF or future HOFers. To each his own. Not everyone has your collecting focus. >>
No problem or issue with ANY of the sets you requested. Zero.
Once again YOU AGREE WITH ME that some are out of whack. Thank you for agreeing with the point I've been trying to make the entire time. Maybe you don't agree with some of my hypothetic solutions, but we at least agree that some of these sets are "out of whack". Now as a logically thinking person, would you not also agree that if something is out of whack, that maybe possibly a solution to correct those out of whack issues would be a consideration?
PSA isn't going to fix them. PSA WANTS as many listings as possible. They are a "for profit" business. But maybe possibly since most of these sets are being requested by fellow posters here on the board we could at least try and minimize the overkill moving forward. If not, so be it. List 500 sets of All-Time Punters and All-time Completion PCT leaders. Will it ultimately affect my personal collecting habits? NO. Could it possibly lead to over-population of Registry sets? it might, it might not. But why ruin a good thing?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I have only requested three sets that are not either a company set or a master player set (which the only one was the Favre master set). Those being, the Packer HOF set which Troy and I both asked many fellow Packer collectors about. While at the time many said that they didnt have plans on doing the set. Many have not added their cards in the last year. The other two sets are my Favre Start Streak Ticket collection and my Favre Playoff Ticket collection. I do collect other things that I would not even think about requesting a set for. But to say that sets should be removed if they dont have a certain number of people with sets above a certain completion percentage would be a little to restrictive. To be honest I dont see why you dont want others to request sets they enjoy or would want to see.
You say it is a waste of PSA's time to start these sets with a low number of people. But my question to you is do they (or you for that matter) know how many people are going start sets once its up. You can poll people all you want but your poll answers are always the final result. So you would prefer they waste the time to start a set, see how many people have the cards required with only a few months of the set going live and then pull it.
I agree some are out of whack. Can there really be an all-time Ravens team set already?!?! But someone requested it, outside of "your" design of only HOF or future HOFers. To each his own. Not everyone has your collecting focus. >>
No problem or issue with ANY of the sets you requested. Zero.
Once again YOU AGREE WITH ME that some are out of whack. Thank you for agreeing with the point I've been trying to make the entire time. Maybe you don't agree with some of my hypothetic solutions, but we at least agree that some of these sets are "out of whack". Now as a logically thinking person, would you not also agree that if something is out of whack, that maybe possibly a solution to correct those out of whack issues would be a consideration?
PSA isn't going to fix them. PSA WANTS as many listings as possible. They are a "for profit" business. But maybe possibly since most of these sets are being requested by fellow posters here on the board we could at least try and minimize the overkill moving forward. If not, so be it. List 500 sets of All-Time Punters and All-time Completion PCT leaders. Will it ultimately affect my personal collecting habits? NO. Could it possibly lead to over-population of Registry sets? it might, it might not. But why ruin a good thing?
Jason >>
Well the problem that I have with your solution is that it would end sets that you have admitted may have a place on the registry. Blanket restrictions would in some cases be almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
However, based on the way the PSA started the registry it is not out of whack with their policy. I am sure we all think some of these sets are out of whack, so just dont collect them. I have always thought that the mega sets were strange. I mean, the same people that have the top individual sets are going to have the top mega sets too. Those sets are just filling up as space as well. But some people like them, in this case, I think more so for the free subs. I admit, its part of the reason why I have my All-Time WR Auto (etc)sets. They allow me to use the same cards from my HOF auto set, in another set which I can get another free grade or two without having to put much additional funds into the set. The problem with the auto sets is that they cant be added to the PSA/DNA registry because they auto isnt graded. I would love to see PSA grade both the auto and the card. I much prefer to have the card grade at the present, then having just the auto graded. As for my habits the card's condition are as important as the auto. But for now this is the only place those cards can reside. Maybe, PSA needs to have an auto'd card tab and move all the auto cards from the key card tab. That would solve some of your issues I think. That way you wouldnt have to see them in the Key card tab.
PSA might have the same feeling that you do, about ruining a good thing. I am sure that the Registry has been a boon for their bottom line. I know I have subbed cards that I probably otherwise wouldnt have. You probably havent as your collection is very focused.
So, how does (or did) Beckett run their registry? Do they have a better policy that PSA might consider adopting.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
Jason,
You really havent ruffled my feathers. As I said I just like a little debate every once in awhile. But there are times that you do coming across as only wanting things the way that you want them. Which is not the way that PSA setup the registry to be run.
Hey how about this, maybe PSA should poll all people that have a registry set about whether any requested set upcoming should be allowed in. It would have to get over 50% of the vote with over 50% of the total collectors voting for a set to be added. Only give people a few weeks to respond too. That would really work to slow down these are all other sets. >>
I'd be fine with that. But PSA will never do it. Why would they? This has to be self policing. The ONLY SETS I am talking about are the HOF and Key Card sets, I don't know enough about the others to have an opinion on them. Many of the collectors of those sets post and/or read the message boards. So why not post here first and gauge the OPINIONS of everyone and who would be interested in completing the set? Is that too tough?
I'm sure you agree that if you are not collecting a set to COMPLETION, well you aren't really collecting or chasing that set. To me that is the simplest solution. If you have 3 or 4 guys here that say yeah they would want to complete the set to 100%, then by all means request it.
Also, the definition of a debate is "a formal method of interactive and representational argument". Someone telling me to go start my own website so I can have total control is not exactly a debate, but more like a flame session. If you want to debate point/counter-point by all means lets do it, but lets do it in a civil way that respects each others opinions. We can agree to disagree on some things. Nothing wrong with that.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Well the problem that I have with your solution is that it would end sets that you have admitted may have a place on the registry. Blanket restrictions would in some cases be almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
However, based on the way the PSA started the registry it is not out of whack with their policy. I am sure we all think some of these sets are out of whack, so just dont collect them. I have always thought that the mega sets were strange. I mean, the same people that have the top individual sets are going to have the top mega sets too. Those sets are just filling up as space as well. But some people like them, in this case, I think more so for the free subs. I admit, its part of the reason why I have my All-Time WR Auto (etc)sets. They allow me to use the same cards from my HOF auto set, in another set which I can get another free grade or two without having to put much additional funds into the set. The problem with the auto sets is that they cant be added to the PSA/DNA registry because they auto isnt graded. I would love to see PSA grade both the auto and the card. I much prefer to have the card grade at the present, then having just the auto graded. As for my habits the card's condition are as important as the auto. But for now this is the only place those cards can reside. Maybe, PSA needs to have an auto'd card tab and move all the auto cards from the key card tab. That would solve some of your issues I think. That way you wouldnt have to see them in the Key card tab.
PSA might have the same feeling that you do, about ruining a good thing. I am sure that the Registry has been a boon for their bottom line. I know I have subbed cards that I probably otherwise wouldnt have. You probably havent as your collection is very focused.
So, how does (or did) Beckett run their registry? Do they have a better policy that PSA might consider adopting. >>
-I NEVER advocated for a blanket restriction. I have spoken STRICTLY on the HOF and Key card sets. PERIOD. And my ideas were just that ideas, just like yours of have PSA send out a poll about new sets. I have not pushed for any type of restrictions.
-The Mega sets have their OWN CATEGORY. I don't have to wade through 100 mega set listings to find a set I may have interest in.
-I am currently in discussions with the Registry folks to have the Autograph sets moved to their own category. Like the Mega Sets. May or may not happen, but I agree, that would help de-clutter.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Jason,
You really havent ruffled my feathers. As I said I just like a little debate every once in awhile. But there are times that you do coming across as only wanting things the way that you want them. Which is not the way that PSA setup the registry to be run.
Hey how about this, maybe PSA should poll all people that have a registry set about whether any requested set upcoming should be allowed in. It would have to get over 50% of the vote with over 50% of the total collectors voting for a set to be added. Only give people a few weeks to respond too. That would really work to slow down these are all other sets. >>
I'd be fine with that. But PSA will never do it. Why would they? This has to be self policing. The ONLY SETS I am talking about are the HOF and Key Card sets, I don't know enough about the others to have an opinion on them. Many of the collectors of those sets post and/or read the message boards. So why not post here first and gauge the OPINIONS of everyone and who would be interested in completing the set? Is that too tough?
I'm sure you agree that if you are not collecting a set to COMPLETION, well you aren't really collecting or chasing that set. To me that is the simplest solution. If you have 3 or 4 guys here that say yeah they would want to complete the set to 100%, then by all means request it.
Also, the definition of a debate is "a formal method of interactive and representational argument". Someone telling me to go start my own website so I can have total control is not exactly a debate, but more like a flame session. If you want to debate point/counter-point by all means lets do it, but lets do it in a civil way that respects each others opinions. We can agree to disagree on some things. Nothing wrong with that.
Jason >>
I was not trying to flame but trying to offer a possible answer. When you express your thoughts on issues like this it comes across as being either your way or the high way. That was my way of countering that.
As for the definition of debate your presented, any "debate" on a message board could never be considered one. as most discussion on boards are rarely "formal" and full discourse is generally difficult to get to.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>
<< <i>
Well the problem that I have with your solution is that it would end sets that you have admitted may have a place on the registry. Blanket restrictions would in some cases be almost like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
However, based on the way the PSA started the registry it is not out of whack with their policy. I am sure we all think some of these sets are out of whack, so just dont collect them. I have always thought that the mega sets were strange. I mean, the same people that have the top individual sets are going to have the top mega sets too. Those sets are just filling up as space as well. But some people like them, in this case, I think more so for the free subs. I admit, its part of the reason why I have my All-Time WR Auto (etc)sets. They allow me to use the same cards from my HOF auto set, in another set which I can get another free grade or two without having to put much additional funds into the set. The problem with the auto sets is that they cant be added to the PSA/DNA registry because they auto isnt graded. I would love to see PSA grade both the auto and the card. I much prefer to have the card grade at the present, then having just the auto graded. As for my habits the card's condition are as important as the auto. But for now this is the only place those cards can reside. Maybe, PSA needs to have an auto'd card tab and move all the auto cards from the key card tab. That would solve some of your issues I think. That way you wouldnt have to see them in the Key card tab.
PSA might have the same feeling that you do, about ruining a good thing. I am sure that the Registry has been a boon for their bottom line. I know I have subbed cards that I probably otherwise wouldnt have. You probably havent as your collection is very focused.
So, how does (or did) Beckett run their registry? Do they have a better policy that PSA might consider adopting. >>
-I NEVER advocated for a blanket restriction. I have spoken STRICTLY on the HOF and Key card sets. PERIOD. And my ideas were just that ideas, just like yours of have PSA send out a poll about new sets. I have not pushed for any type of restrictions.
-The Mega sets have their OWN CATEGORY. I don't have to wade through 100 mega set listings to find a set I may have interest in.
-I am currently in discussions with the Registry folks to have the Autograph sets moved to their own category. Like the Mega Sets. May or may not happen, but I agree, that would help de-clutter.
Jason >>
This seemed like a blanket statement to me. " I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. "
I am not sure how PSA could apply this only to Football key card sets, with out having to apply it to all sets.
Yes I agree that some of these sets are strange. But that doesnt mean they should go away, just because we either dont like the composition of the set or even the idea of that set. PSA would have to change their whole concept of the registry to be a more limited style...ie only sets that they deem are collecting worthy. Which I dont think PSA would want to do. That would be telling some customers, sure we will grade your cards (ie take your money) but we really think your collecting habbits are out of whack with the mainstream or are strange.
They could de-clutter/regroup sets better. Like auto sets, all time college sets etc. But you have to look at this from PSA's side as well. I would assume that the registry is a big part of their business model, including as many sets in the registry increases their potential client base. Limiting the sets, on the other hand would be a detriment to that model in that they might possibly be excluding potential clients. Which in this economy not many business can afford to do. How to regroup, some of these sets that are in line to be uploaded will be tough.
Look, as I have learned from many things you can never please all the people all the time. You do your best to please as many as you can. So maybe the best way for PSA to deal with this is to put out some kind of poll to people. Some people might not care at all as to what sets are uploaded, (ie they like the freedom of being able to publish their own sets) maybe more agree with you in that if it doesnt fit the "mainstream" view those collections are unworthy of the PSA registry. However, I dont think PSA really wants to alienate collectors.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
It is my opinion that, for example, the all time packers set......Maybe there is a die hard packer fan that starts collecting this set only, and then realizes that he loves the looks of the older cards, then decides to exapand into the HOF RC set? That would be a good thing for the set registry and the hobby...........
If someone wants to collect the all time punters set...go for it!
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>I don't understand what the big fuss is? Collect what you enjoy and leave it at that. The only set I ever look at on the registry is the HOF RC set. I have a direct link to it. I never see any other sets and honestly dont care if there are a million sets listed. I would never look at them any way.
It is my opinion that, for example, the all time packers set......Maybe there is a die hard packer fan that starts collecting this set only, and then realizes that he loves the looks of the older cards, then decides to exapand into the HOF RC set? That would be a good thing for the set registry and the hobby...........
If someone wants to collect the all time punters set...go for it!
Dave >>
You're right Dave. It really isn't a big deal, at least not to me. I expressed my opinion on it. Hoped that moving forward some discretion or control will be exhibited amongst ourselves so the Registry doesn't become a farce (which is how I view say the Team Set category for example). But if not, oh well. It won't affect how or what I collect. I'm like you, I rarely view anything other than the HOF RC sets or my own inventory. I was trying to think outside the box as an outsider coming in and seeing 500 sets, where 250 of them are almost identical cards and players.
I've made my opinion known as have you and some others. So it's on the table, we know each others take. Nothing much more to add. Obviously there will be no resolution here because many don;t think there is any issue at all. So be it.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
This seemed like a blanket statement to me. " I wish all sets required at least 5 collectors to be at a minimum of 25% or else the set gets deleted after 6 months or a year. "
>>
A blanket statement that begins with the words "I wish"? lolol
Ok man, you win. List 5,000 sets. I've changed my mind, I want as many as possible. Let's not stop until we can make the HOF and Key Card categories look like the Team Set category. I'm all in.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>When you express your thoughts on issues like this it comes across as being either your way or the high way. >>
Isn't that the definition of an opinion?
My apolgies if I speak my mind. Since we can't seem to agree to disagree, then I will change my mind for you. I'm now all for MAXIMUM setage. Let's also make the HOF RC set require EVERY MULTIPLE RC of each individual player. Let's also expand it to accept non-mainstream cards like the matchbooks, K-Mart cards, all those. What the heck, no limits, lets go for broke! I'm with you bro, lead the charge!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
<< <i>When you express your thoughts on issues like this it comes across as being either your way or the high way. >>
Isn't that the definition of an opinion?
My apolgies if I speak my mind. Since we can't seem to agree to disagree, then I will change my mind for you. I'm now all for MAXIMUM setage. Let's also make the HOF RC set require EVERY MULTIPLE RC of each individual player. Let's also expand it to accept non-mainstream cards like the matchbooks, K-Mart cards, all those. What the heck, no limits, lets go for broke! I'm with you bro, lead the charge!
Jason >>
i dont care that you speak your mind. as long as you dont care that others speak theirs and that people form opinions on others based on how they speak their mind.
i dont want you to change your mind for me or anyone else. you ask for possible solutions. i was only stating that it would be hard to apply any change to only certain type of sets. i do believe that a blanket statement can start with the words "i wish". because in your opinion that is what you proposed. i just do not see how they could apply that to only football key card sets.
to go on with a rant about HOF RC set, matchbooks etc., is well beyond on the scope of this "debate". i thought the "debate" was about allowing or excluding certain sets. i never once said that I wanted multiple RC's, or any of the other things you went on about. they are apples and organes. one is about what sets should be allowed to exist on the registy (or how to limit sets allowe), while the other is the inclusion or exclusion of certain cards from an existing set. on that topic i think the set should stay with in the limits that set was created under. to say that i support these things is more than twisting my words it is flat out false, as i have never discussed any of those topics in this "debate".
i dont care that you dont agree with my feeling that it would be hard to limit the sets, but to go ahead and put words in my mouth is something that i thought you would never stoop too.
we can agree to disagree and end the debate. but to put words in my mouth saying that i support other things that i do not is something that i feel is completely out of line, unwarranted and slanderous.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
OK....everyone is required to post a pic of their most recent HOF RC!!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>To change the subject, Here is my latest upgrade to my set. My upgrades are coming few and far between now. We are breaking ground on a new home within the next week! I don't think I'm going to have to liquidate any of my set, but probably won't be able to upgrade much. This one was actually acquired in a trade.
OK....everyone is required to post a pic of their most recent HOF RC!!
>>
Dave, congrats on the house! Hopefully you were able to get out Indianpolis Clots (mis-spelled on purpose) land..Maybe move to Florida? Jacksonville? lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>No, actually I'm moving about 10 minutes closer to Indy.....My wife works downtown Indy so it will be a shorter commute... Toughest part will be with my oldest (10 year old) changing school systems.
Dave >>
Yeah, i know the feeling. Being an Army guy, i've moved the kids a few times. Luckily, i've been at my current duty station for 5 years come next month. It's been great for my youngest (15 year old) to stay with her same group of friends for so long. It's the longest she's every lived anywhere and I think that's important for a teen.
Best of luck, sorry you have to watch that terrible QB Peyton Manning every week.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Best of luck, sorry you have to watch that terrible QB Peyton Manning every week.
>>
Yeah, It's rough....
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
OK....everyone is required to post a pic of their most recent HOF RC!!
>>
Nice card, Dave! I should be getting my "most recent" in the mail in the next week or so. When I do, I owe Keith a phone call so he can teach me photobucket and I can start posting some stuff here.
Jasen
-Go to your "My Inventory"
-Click on the scan of the card you want to post
-Once the picture opens, right click and select "Properties"
-Copy and past the URL, should look something like this: http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/1121/31141714/35battles75.jpg
-Come back to the message board
-Clck the little Image button (4th button from the left between the "U" and the "http")
-When the box opens, right click "Paste"
-Post the message and presto, you have a pic posted on the message board!
Hope that helps anyone who doesn't know how to do it, and gives you more reasons to upload scans for those who haven't yet!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Anything after profits is simply icing on the cake(promoting the hobby, connecting other collectors, etc.). I, like Dave, never even look at the other sets on the registry, I simply don't care to. It is however in our best interests to hope that PSA remains a profitable/viable company because if they ever went BK for example what do you think that would do to the value of our collections? What would you rather have a GAI 8 Jim Brown or a PSA 8 Jim Brown? Nuff said. Just wanted to add my 2 cents!!
Doc
I just wanted to state that my intent was not to clutter the key card sets with worthless sets, but to start some sets that others might find interesting and have some fun. That's the main reason I come to this forum in my spare time is to have an escape and have some fun. I don't find heated debates much fun, have too many of them at work or with my 12 year old daughter to clean her room, lol. I get great enjoyment out of researching the sets and looking up the best cards for the checklists. But I get the message I will cool it with the set requests. Let me say again that I very much enjoy being on this forum and don't want to detract from it but add to it.
Tom
With Key Card and HOF Sets, there is a "cost" for each of us associated with each set's development. Only so many sets can be developed in a certain period of time, and it looks like exception is taken when limited-interest themes take precedent while ones with wider appeal wait. Users all "pay" for PSA to develop sets in one way or another. It keeps PSA's resources from doing something else potentially helpful. Yes, self-control is key - great point to whomever made that one.
When I looked into developing the Van Buren Player Set months ago, I started a thread and saw scans and interest from others. Those acts made me feel validated in seeing through to the Set Request. Maybe the All-Time Punters Set will run the same course. If it's got the participation, great. It doesn't matter that I won't participate. Another thread originator (ArnyVee I think?) shows loads of enthusiasm and patience over time for his NFL Rookie Of The Year Thread (or similar name), with support from others. Even though I have no plans to do that one either, I kind of hope that it makes it because sustainable interest is evident!
Jason P., tight-looking Cliff Battles scan that you shared! Thanks! That's a terrific card. In fact, I just recently upgraded my Battles 6 with the Battles 7 from the latest Mile High auction. I await receiving the beauty any day!
Tom, I'm with you. The worst scan beats the most respectful debate every day of the year...
Mike Denero's is getting me going with a new, better scanner if I ever take it out of the box.
As for this issue of limiting onerous and arcane Sets Requests, does anyone else think that the issue might have had more input if it's own thread had been originated? I think that more posters could have felt "included", thus giving us a wider range of opinion. Of course, the growing issue is not specific only to football either. Though this thread is titled the "Official Football HOF Rookies" thread, it really seems to be "The Football Thread".
Originating a post titled something like "Discussion of limits to Key Card and HOF Set Requests" would have made it easier to find key information later. Now that this thread is 6,000+ posts deep, interesting things germane to the thread name get buried. For example, Yak's list of this set's hardest cards to find centered and Jason P.'s list of HOFers that shouldn't be HOFers is quickly buried and hard to find. Such lists are highly interesting and to compile them is the product of applied experience, some of which just can't be found elsewhere. Either way that was great stuff, and thanks! I'll dig them up anyway.
The Matson was one of the last few cards I needed to get my set to 100%.
Dave
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>As for this issue of limiting onerous and arcane Sets Requests, does anyone else think that the issue might have had more input if it's own thread had been originated? I think that more posters could have felt "included", thus giving us a wider range of opinion. Of course, the growing issue is not specific only to football either. Though this thread is titled the "Official Football HOF Rookies" thread, it really seems to be "The Football Thread".
>>
Thats why I wanted to get us back "on course"...
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>As for this issue of limiting onerous and arcane Sets Requests, does anyone else think that the issue might have had more input if it's own thread had been originated? I think that more posters could have felt "included", thus giving us a wider range of opinion. Of course, the growing issue is not specific only to football either. Though this thread is titled the "Official Football HOF Rookies" thread, it really seems to be "The Football Thread".
>>
Thats why I wanted to get us back "on course"... >>
Agreed. Nice work Dave. Thanks personally for helping refocusing my compass bearings.
I intended no ill repute towards Tom or anyone else. I'm an opinionated guy in general. When I truly believe in something, and believe in my opinion I will argue and/or debate that belief to no end. For whatever reason, on more than one occasion, I've been told that others feel I am in "my way or the highway" mode when I am arguing a point. Which is actually correct, but ONLY as it relates to my own personal opinions. I never feel as though I am talking down to anyone and do not believe my opinion carries any more weight than any other person on the message board. We can agree to disagree. In the future, I hope we can continue having our debates and continue having our own opinions. I promise I won't hate anyone here if you don't agree with me on every issue..lol
Tom, I think you've done a GREAT job on the sets you have requested. You've done due diligence to ensure the best players and right cards were included. I hope you won't quit cold turkey, as your motivation and wealthy of ideas is certainly welcome. Moving forward, maybe pop in here on this thread or start a new thread and gauge interest, get opinions. We've had great success with sets (like the HOF RC set) when we all sat down and beat up the keyboard with our thoughts first. There is a vast resource of football and/or card knowledge among this group of HOF RC collectors. I don't think there's much out there at least one of us doesn't know a little about.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Tom did an excellent job of helping me with the All-Time Sixers Set a while back.
Jason P., I know where you are. I found with my own Message Board posts that if I don't preface what is obviously my opinion with "In my opinion...", then persons senselessly rebut with "That's just your opinion". Well, of course it's my opinion as long as it's not a statement of fact. Of course it's the respective poster's opinion. State the opinion and let's work it out.
Sheesh, must everyone write "The above is only my opinion" in their signature line? I mean really, who else's opinion would it be? Keith Olbermann's? Rush Limbaugh's? Roger Goodell's? No, it's my opinion. No kidding.
Thanks again, J!
Jasen
The 1951 Bowman #91 Emlen Tunnell (Rookie Card)
If offense wins games and defense wins championships, then what does the player nicknamed “Offense On Defense” give you? Two NFL Championships and a Hall of Fame career. The flattering moniker was coined for New York Giants defensive back Emlen Tunnell after the 1952 season, when he compiled more yards in interception and kickoff returns than the leading rusher had rushing.
When Tunnell retired, he held the All-Time NFL career record with 79 interceptions, a mark that is still second today (Paul Krause). Additionally, Em was the first African-American to play for the New York Giants and the first African-American to be enshrined into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. So how could a 9-time Pro Bowl standout playing a major sport for a legacy franchise in the nation’s biggest city largely fly under the radar? That is a valid question.
Marion Motley and other pioneers are credited with breaking the NFL’s racial barrier. With a Giants franchise chock full of greats, Tunnell’s star has been outshone. In fact, today Em’s Wikipedia page includes the grand sum total of six sentences. At least it couldn’t get worse.
It gets worse. The most famous photo of Tunnell is probably the one where he is being blocked by the Colts’ Jim Parker while Parker’s Colt teammate Alan Ameche scores the game-winning overtime touchdown to defeat Tunnell’s New York Giants in the 1958 NFL Championship Game.
So where does Emlen Tunnell get any respect today? Cardboard. His 1951 Bowman rookie card is popular and high-grade examples are valuable. The handsome and enduring rectangle is part of SGC’s and PSA’s adored Pro Football Hall of Fame Rookie Card set registries. Examples graded in PSA 8 condition have sold for over $900.
The card booms with eye appeal. It features Tunnell striking his best “Heisman” pose while donning a Giants jersey saturated in deep rouge, a jersey which contrasts sharply with the shaded stadium seats in the background. Em is cradling the pigskin with his left hand as if he has just intercepted a Norm Van Brocklin pass. Logos were more detailed in those days, and that of the “New York Football Giants” appears large relative to the card to accommodate its intricacy. Characteristic of the wonderful 1951 Bowman issue, the card is a sweeping display of artistry, color, and composure that cements Tunnell some lasting respect…at least among vintage football memorabilia collectors.
***********************************************
<< <i>
Sheesh, must everyone write "The above is only my opinion" in their signature line? I mean really, who else's opinion would it be? Keith Olbermann's? Rush Limbaugh's? Roger Goodell's? No, it's my opinion. No kidding. >>
OTW does. In his sigline is MOO, which stands for "My opinion only" Ive always thought that was funny, coming from one of the most stubborn, opinionated guys on here
What a great looking Creekmur Jasen, beauty man, and thanks for posting it
Chiming in here, I could care less what people collect, or how many registries there are that I have to wade through to be able to check in on my 88 topps set, or if there's a punters set. I wont collect it, but I dont mind having it "clutter up" the key card sets either. Ive gotten used to skipping the autographed versions of the WR, QB etc. sets to check in on the regular ones. Inconvenience, not really. Let em collect what they want to collect, it is a hobby after all.
great article Keith, you forget how good some of these guys really are until you refresh it like that.
Thanks to recent instructions from Jason I can post a pic.
In response to dave's requirement we post latest additions. This is mine. Have not added a card in a long time.
Funny. But my psa 8 is a much better card than this 9. Oh well.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets