@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
I wouldn’t go as far to say that. I do think it is distinguishable from the 1894-S which was intended as a separate issue for the date. This coin was not. It is more in the nature of an error or variety coin. While rare and cool, there are neater issues deserving of a greater premium to me like the buffalo nickel and Indian head cent struck on a gold $2.50 Planchet.
That said, I do think it is a special coin deserving of the attention and spirited bidding it has received. I hope it sets a record.
I agree a big premium warranted, surprised at this high a premium. Just my personal opinion saying I am buying rare gold for this amount of bucks
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
I wouldn’t go as far to say that. I do think it is distinguishable from the 1894-S which was intended as a separate issue for the date. This coin was not. It is more in the nature of an error or variety coin. While rare and cool, there are neater issues deserving of a greater premium to me like the buffalo nickel and Indian head cent struck on a gold $2.50 Planchet.
That said, I do think it is a special coin deserving of the attention and spirited bidding it has received. I hope it sets a record.
I agree a big premium warranted, surprised at this high a premium. Just my personal opinion saying I am buying rare gold for this amount of bucks
At an auction, only two people really matter: The high bidder and direct under bidder. DL Hansen spent more than $300k IIRC for a MS68 common date Mercury Dime. This coin would be much cooler to me. I also would not be surprised if Hansen were either the current high bidder or underbidder on this. The sky really is the limit if it fills a hole in his set.
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible?
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
Polls are irrelevant. There are all sorts of niches that I would not spend large sums of money on. That doesn’t make the items less desirable to those who do appreciate them nor does it make them wrong for pursuing the pieces at higher levels than I might personally have an interest in.
Edited: I should have paid closer attention. It did sticker. Nice!
Why can’t I say the coin seems overpriced or not a great value. I am not personally criticizing buyers who want to spend their money on this item, or telling anyone they are wasting money
@cameonut2011 said: @lermish Thanks for posting the slab shot; I didn’t realized that it already stickered and rightfully so! The fact that CAC recognizes the rarity of it and makes an exception in stickering it shows that there is an interest, even among dealers and collectors who might otherwise not vigorously pursue moderns.
CAC stickers indicate coins that are "solid for the grade" not based on rarity. Or at least that's what all of the marketing materials say.
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
In addition to what I said above, at what point does JA lose credibility for deviating from published policies and rules? It's perfectly fine if he wants to sticker Rosie's, but why have a website that says you don't?
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
What happened to the buyer's fee? I would have bid more had I known there was no buyers fee.
edited: I did a refresh and now it shows a proper buyer fee.
There were 3 bidders at or above $400k, 2 others above $300k, and 2 additional bidders above $250k. It’s very nice to see so much interest even at higher price levels on a modern rarity.
@ProofCollection said:
What happened to the buyer's fee? I would have bid more had I known there was no buyers fee.
edited: I did a refresh and now it shows a proper buyer fee.
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
And how do you feel about every other business who makes an exception for high value clients/situations? CAC grades coins. They decided to grade this coin as an exception due to its exceptional nature. And you think that compromises JA's integrity and CAC'S credibility? I am trying to not be too confrontational but that is not a compelling argument.
Curious how you feel about the two main TPGs and some of their business practices. I have firsthand experienced things that would raise anyone's hair but I do not wish to be banned so I won't go into details or name names. I'm sure many others have even worse stories. All that considered, isn't PCGS still the preeminent TPG?
@ProofCollection said:
What happened to the buyer's fee? I would have bid more had I known there was no buyers fee.
edited: I did a refresh and now it shows a proper buyer fee.
Congratulations to Ian and his team on achieving this record price on this modern coin. He marketed this coin with a target price goal of a half million dollars and nailed it! I’m sure the family who owned this coin for over 4 decades is thrilled with the marketing efforts of GC! I know I would have been.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with @MFeld. Miss Liberty on Barber coinage (minus the V nickel) is rather homely looking. I think on one thread, I (along with other posters) speculated that the model for it may have been a 19th century transvestite.
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
And how do you feel about every other business who makes an exception for high value clients/situations? CAC grades coins. They decided to grade this coin as an exception due to its exceptional nature. And you think that compromises JA's integrity and CAC'S credibility? I am trying to not be too confrontational but that is not a compelling argument.
When you deviate from your published and publicized standards and policies, it reduces integrity and credibility. To what extent is debatable, but when you know that what is stated is not what is practiced, you can no longer 100% rely on what they say and publish. Do with that what you will. Some will ignore it, some will file that away and bring it back out next time there is doubt. For instance, if I owned a 1968 No-S dime which is pretty rare and special, will he sticker it? Do I have to bribe him? What does it take? Why did he sticker 2 2003-S PR64 Silver dimes (one CAM, one DCAM) and why did that collector/owner get special treatment? It's not good to have your customers asking these types of questions about your operation.
Edited to add: I don't buy that these companies need to cater to "high value clients." It costs $1000 at CAC to have that dime graded or stickered. Unless you're having a ton of these coins graded, it shouldn't be a big part of the CAC income stream as I just don't think there's that much volume there to be had in that tier. I would expect that the bread and butter is the high volume economy tier. But certainly I would expect JA to hold his standards and fail to sticker roughly half of the coins submitted in the Rarity tier meaning people are paying $1000 to get nothing in return but a thumbs down. If you are suggesting that high value clients should have more lenient standards applied to their coins, I would be disappointed to have further evidence than the (in my opinion) over-graded 1933 MS65 CAC Gold Double Eagle in the news lately.
Curious how you feel about the two main TPGs and some of their business practices. I have firsthand experienced things that would raise anyone's hair but I do not wish to be banned so I won't go into details or name names. I'm sure many others have even worse stories. All that considered, isn't PCGS still the preeminent TPG?
They are not perfect either and I have called out things when I have encountered them. There is no perfect TPG. I had higher expectations for CAC but it turns out they are just like the rest.
‘’One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉’’
I had the privilege and the honor in my career to sell the finest known 1894-S Dime (directly to John F. who I seem to recall was the agent at the time for one of the greatest coin dealers of our time) and to sell the finest known 1975 No S dime to the greatest Roosevelt dime collector ever. Both events were equally rewarding and special to me in their own way and certainly two of the highlights of my numismatic career as a collector and dealer.
“Moderns” are coming into their own. It will just take time. They will (likely) never be worth the value of the greatest classics, just as the Mona Lisa painting would (likely) sell for BILLIONS OF DOLLARS if France ever wanted to “put it on the block” and the greatest modern art is worth about 1/10 that amount. Still modern art is a fabulous growing collectible field as is modern coins.
Explains why “Elite” recently became the #1 Registry set holder of MS State Quarters- yes, you read that correctly! My mid-term goal will be to happily “tuck into” the #2 slot right behind him.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. ******For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available ******
Please. You returned an $80.00 Walker because you were frightened it might not CAC.
"For my money." Honestly. . .
@wondercoin said:
‘’One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉’’
I had the privilege and the honor in my career to sell the finest known 1894-S Dime (directly to John F. who I seem to recall was the agent at the time for one of the greatest coin dealers of our time) and to sell the finest known 1975 No S dime to the greatest Roosevelt dime collector ever. Both events were equally rewarding and special to me in their own way and certainly two of the highlights of my numismatic career as a collector and dealer.
“Moderns” are coming into their own. It will just take time. They will (likely) never be worth the value of the greatest classics, just as the Mona Lisa painting would (likely) sell for BILLIONS OF DOLLARS if France ever wanted to “put it on the block” and the greatest modern art is worth about 1/10 that amount. Still modern art is a fabulous growing collectible field as is modern coins.
Explains why “Elite” recently became the #1 Registry set holder of MS State Quarters- yes, you read that correctly! My mid-term goal will be to happily “tuck into” the #2 slot right behind him.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
So what is your long term goal? Does Elite have to worry or be happy?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available
You can buy whatever you want. Please extend the same courtesy to everyone else.
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. ******For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available ******
Please. You returned an $80.00 Walker because you were frightened it might not CAC.
"For my money." Honestly. . .
He never said he would spend more than $80 on them...
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. ******For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available ******
Please. You returned an $80.00 Walker because you were frightened it might not CAC.
"For my money." Honestly. . .
He never said he would spend more than $80 on them...
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Do a poll and ask collectors if given $500,000 or so dollars, and they have a choice only of using it for this dime or the 1894S or 1893 S Morgan or a beautiful proof $10 or $20 gold coin. Your saying many or most collectors are spending it on this small clad dime? I am entitled to my opinion. Prove me wrong
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. ******For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available ******
Please. You returned an $80.00 Walker because you were frightened it might not CAC.
"For my money." Honestly. . .
He never said he would spend more than $80 on them...
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
And how do you feel about every other business who makes an exception for high value clients/situations? CAC grades coins. They decided to grade this coin as an exception due to its exceptional nature. And you think that compromises JA's integrity and CAC'S credibility? I am trying to not be too confrontational but that is not a compelling argument.
When you deviate from your published and publicized standards and policies, it reduces integrity and credibility. To what extent is debatable, but when you know that what is stated is not what is practiced, you can no longer 100% rely on what they say and publish. Do with that what you will. Some will ignore it, some will file that away and bring it back out next time there is doubt. For instance, if I owned a 1968 No-S dime which is pretty rare and special, will he sticker it? Do I have to bribe him? What does it take? Why did he sticker 2 2003-S PR64 Silver dimes (one CAM, one DCAM) and why did that collector/owner get special treatment? It's not good to have your customers asking these types of questions about your operation.
Edited to add: I don't buy that these companies need to cater to "high value clients." It costs $1000 at CAC to have that dime graded or stickered. Unless you're having a ton of these coins graded, it shouldn't be a big part of the CAC income stream as I just don't think there's that much volume there to be had in that tier. I would expect that the bread and butter is the high volume economy tier. But certainly I would expect JA to hold his standards and fail to sticker roughly half of the coins submitted in the Rarity tier meaning people are paying $1000 to get nothing in return but a thumbs down. If you are suggesting that high value clients should have more lenient standards applied to their coins, I would be disappointed to have further evidence than the (in my opinion) over-graded 1933 MS65 CAC Gold Double Eagle in the news lately.
Curious how you feel about the two main TPGs and some of their business practices. I have firsthand experienced things that would raise anyone's hair but I do not wish to be banned so I won't go into details or name names. I'm sure many others have even worse stories. All that considered, isn't PCGS still the preeminent TPG?
They are not perfect either and I have called out things when I have encountered them. There is no perfect TPG. I had higher expectations for CAC but it turns out they are just like the rest.
You're missing the point. I didn't say that high value clients should have more lenient standards, just that certain circumstances require special attention (whales in casinos for example, or two of a kind coins to a TPG). I don't think that anyone bribed or anything untoward occurred, and anyone that thinks so really doesn't understand JA or the coin business.
CAC stickering has never been a massive profit making operation. That's why non-dealers paid nothing all those years for coins that didn't pass. Or why, even now, their shipping is half the price of PCGS'. The main point of CAC stickering, to quote myself, is "established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation."
To answer your question definitively, he stickered the coins because he wanted to. They likely met his standards for the coin. It's also fantastic advertising to get his brand on an ultra high profile coin. He is trying to build a business in CACG.
I think that there might be a handful people on the planet, at most, including you, who would give even a second thought to this coin receiving a sticker because the date is not normally covered under the usual stated service levels. I think almost no one is looking at a modern rarity and bemoaning that JA may not choose to offer his services.
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
And how do you feel about every other business who makes an exception for high value clients/situations? CAC grades coins. They decided to grade this coin as an exception due to its exceptional nature. And you think that compromises JA's integrity and CAC'S credibility? I am trying to not be too confrontational but that is not a compelling argument.
When you deviate from your published and publicized standards and policies, it reduces integrity and credibility. To what extent is debatable, but when you know that what is stated is not what is practiced, you can no longer 100% rely on what they say and publish. Do with that what you will. Some will ignore it, some will file that away and bring it back out next time there is doubt. For instance, if I owned a 1968 No-S dime which is pretty rare and special, will he sticker it? Do I have to bribe him? What does it take? Why did he sticker 2 2003-S PR64 Silver dimes (one CAM, one DCAM) and why did that collector/owner get special treatment? It's not good to have your customers asking these types of questions about your operation.
Edited to add: I don't buy that these companies need to cater to "high value clients." It costs $1000 at CAC to have that dime graded or stickered. Unless you're having a ton of these coins graded, it shouldn't be a big part of the CAC income stream as I just don't think there's that much volume there to be had in that tier. I would expect that the bread and butter is the high volume economy tier. But certainly I would expect JA to hold his standards and fail to sticker roughly half of the coins submitted in the Rarity tier meaning people are paying $1000 to get nothing in return but a thumbs down. If you are suggesting that high value clients should have more lenient standards applied to their coins, I would be disappointed to have further evidence than the (in my opinion) over-graded 1933 MS65 CAC Gold Double Eagle in the news lately.
Curious how you feel about the two main TPGs and some of their business practices. I have firsthand experienced things that would raise anyone's hair but I do not wish to be banned so I won't go into details or name names. I'm sure many others have even worse stories. All that considered, isn't PCGS still the preeminent TPG?
They are not perfect either and I have called out things when I have encountered them. There is no perfect TPG. I had higher expectations for CAC but it turns out they are just like the rest.
You're missing the point. I didn't say that high value clients should have more lenient standards, just that certain circumstances require special attention (whales in casinos for example, or two of a kind coins to a TPG). I don't think that anyone bribed or anything untoward occurred, and anyone that thinks so really doesn't understand JA or the coin business.
CAC stickering has never been a massive profit making operation. That's why non-dealers paid nothing all those years for coins that didn't pass. Or why, even now, their shipping is half the price of PCGS'. The main point of CAC stickering, to quote myself, is "established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation."
To answer your question definitively, he stickered the coins because he wanted to. They likely met his standards for the coin. It's also fantastic advertising to get his brand on an ultra high profile coin. He is trying to build a business in CACG.
I think that there might be a handful people on the planet, at most, including you, who would give even a second thought to this coin receiving a sticker because the date is not normally covered under the usual stated service levels. I think almost no one is looking at a modern rarity and bemoaning that JA may not choose to offer his services.
All of that is fine. I don't really disagree with any of it. But why not just be forthright and add that to the "Coins we sticker" policy? Why not add, "CAC may, at its own discretion, sticker coins that are not on this list. Contact us to see if yours is good enough" to the website? Or better yet he could just open up the policy to any coin that is reasonably worth 6 figures. Whatever the actual criteria is. That would bring full transparency and be very easy to do. Instead, he operates with a set of rules or policies that he refuses to disclose to the public. That is shady no matter how you look at it. Why the secret criteria? And what's up with the 2003 Proof Silver dimes? People want to give them a pass because they think he is God's gift to numismatics. We need to let these companies know that we demand and deserve transparency, honesty, and fair dealing.
If I owned the top pop 68 No-S dime I would be beside myself wondering why a 75 No S can have a sticker but my coin can't (assuming it is graded accurately and problem free). I get that they are not in the same league but a 68 No-S is pretty special too. There are probably several other examples. Where does he draw the line? Only CAC knows.
Proof collection: All of your points are reasonable (and Lermish has a reasonable position too). I would add the following:
The fact that this No S Dime worth 1/2 a million dollars was auctioned in a PCGS holder and not in a CACG holder speaks VOLUMES and I will leave it at that. The fact Ian had CAC sticker it was excellent diplomacy on his part. Think about just how diplomatic such a move was on Ian’s part vis a vis the 2 grading services. A brilliant marketing move - yes? It should have been a honor for CAC to get that invitation to do so from Ian. The fact JA acted upon it shows me JA recognized the benefit of Ian’s offer; nothing sinister I see here at all on anyone’s part. Win-win-win for all involved ESPECIALLY for the owner of the 1975 No S Dime where the duties lay.
‘’If I owned the top pop 68 No-S dime I would be beside myself wondering why a 75 No S can have a sticker but my coin can't’’
I own one of the much nicer 68 No S Dimes and I could care less what happened with the 75 No S dime. But, I will say to JA - why not agree now to sticker all No S modern coins (including my UNIQUE 1976 NO S Ike even though it is possibly a presentation piece - who cares- it is worth strong “seven figures”. Don’t take my word for it - ask Mike Byers).
Summary- the decision to auction the coin in the PCGS holder was brilliant. The decision to get a sticker on the PCGS coin was brilliant. The decision to allow the sticker by CAC was brilliant. The ultimate sales price on the 75 No S dime was exceptional. Here a text book example of everyone doing great work ultimately for the owner of the consigned merchandise! Well done!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
A big price to be sure, but this is the type of coin that is best appreciated by those that appreciate it...LOL, a Yogi Berra statement to be sure.
Don't know why there seemingly always binary yes/no or black/white positions on these boards. To each their own...
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@wondercoin said:
Proof collection: All of your points are reasonable (and Lermish has a reasonable position too). I would add the following:
The fact that this No S Dime worth 1/2 a million dollars was auctioned in a PCGS holder and not in a CACG holder speaks VOLUMES and I will leave it at that. The fact Ian had CAC sticker it was excellent diplomacy on his part. Think about just how diplomatic such a move was on Ian’s part vis a vis the 2 grading services. A brilliant marketing move - yes? It should have been a honor for CAC to get that invitation to do so from Ian. The fact JA acted upon it shows me JA recognized the benefit of Ian’s offer; nothing sinister I see here at all on anyone’s part. Win-win-win for all involved ESPECIALLY for the owner of the 1975 No S Dime where the duties lay.
If JA was worried about credibility and consistency, he should have responded to the invitation with either a) CAC doesn't sticker Rosies or b) OK I will objectively evaluate the coin (no guarantee it will sticker), and I will add the 75 No S to the list of coins we sticker. Instead he chose an undisclosed deviation from published policies. Why? Why weren't "a" or "b" palatable options?
‘’If I owned the top pop 68 No-S dime I would be beside myself wondering why a 75 No S can have a sticker but my coin can't’’
I own one of the much nicer 68 No S Dimes and I could care less what happened with the 75 No S dime. But, I will say to JA - why not agree now to sticker all No S modern coins (including my UNIQUE 1976 NO S Ike even though it is possibly a presentation piece - who cares- it is worth strong “seven figures”. Don’t take my word for it - ask Mike Byers).
Yep. Now we all wonder what it takes to get an exception stickered, like the 2003 PR64 Silver Rosie in the pop report.
Summary- the decision to auction the coin in the PCGS holder was brilliant. The decision to get a sticker on the PCGS coin was brilliant. The decision to allow the sticker by CAC was brilliant. The ultimate sales price on the 75 No S dime was exceptional. Here a text book example of everyone doing great work ultimately for the owner of the consigned merchandise! Well done!
I don't know that it was brilliant. Ian probably made the observation that many others have and that is that coins still sell better/higher in PCGS holders and especially in PCGS holders with CAC stickers. You can call it brilliance but it's just paying attention to market data and he has plenty. I'm not sure how you knew Ian was behind getting the sticker and not the seller, but it's standard advice to have CAC review all coins before selling, nothing unusual about that. The only difference would be is if Ian used his relationship to convince/coerce/cajole or just politely request a deviation from published policy. I would disagree that it was brilliant to diminish reputation and credibility by once again showing that you will bend or break your published policies and/or standards in exchange for publicity/free advertising. Doing "b" above would be been the right move and achieved a similar result (assuming the coin objectively qualifies) and doing "a" would have garnered additional admiration and respect.
I'm not convinced the dime sold for a penny more than it would have without a sticker or that it would have sold for more or less in a CACG holder. We'll never know.
Personally, I would prefer an 1894-S dime above this 1975 [no S] "proof" (although both are far beyond my meager budget).
This is because the 1975 [no S] "proof" doesn't really look like a proof to me. Also because I don't collect Roosevelt Dimes.
I once had a 1969 [Philadelphia] dime that was an early die state and it was proof-like. Many years ago I could only get a few dollars for it, even though it looked a lot like this 1969 [no S] "proof".
Of course, regardless of my opinion, the 1975 [no S] proof dime is always going to be a well-known, coveted, and iconic coin.
@Walkerlover said:
Bigger coins, silver, artistic 20th century designs, huge collector base. Why doesn’t CAC sticker Roosevelt dimes. How many people post anything about Roosevelt dimes on this forum.
Since when does CAC get to dictate which series or issues are or aren’t collectible? Not that it matters, but I bet JA would make an exception and sticker this one if he felt it was deserving for the grade.
It's not like CAC's policies are engraved in stone and handed down from the heavens. JA can do whatever he pleases and change whatever policies he likes or make whatever exceptions he wants at any time. It's his business, he sets the rules.
Right, but he should update the website and say that he stickers Rosies. Or Rosies worth 100k+.
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
And how do you feel about every other business who makes an exception for high value clients/situations? CAC grades coins. They decided to grade this coin as an exception due to its exceptional nature. And you think that compromises JA's integrity and CAC'S credibility? I am trying to not be too confrontational but that is not a compelling argument.
When you deviate from your published and publicized standards and policies, it reduces integrity and credibility. To what extent is debatable, but when you know that what is stated is not what is practiced, you can no longer 100% rely on what they say and publish. Do with that what you will. Some will ignore it, some will file that away and bring it back out next time there is doubt. For instance, if I owned a 1968 No-S dime which is pretty rare and special, will he sticker it? Do I have to bribe him? What does it take? Why did he sticker 2 2003-S PR64 Silver dimes (one CAM, one DCAM) and why did that collector/owner get special treatment? It's not good to have your customers asking these types of questions about your operation.
Edited to add: I don't buy that these companies need to cater to "high value clients." It costs $1000 at CAC to have that dime graded or stickered. Unless you're having a ton of these coins graded, it shouldn't be a big part of the CAC income stream as I just don't think there's that much volume there to be had in that tier. I would expect that the bread and butter is the high volume economy tier. But certainly I would expect JA to hold his standards and fail to sticker roughly half of the coins submitted in the Rarity tier meaning people are paying $1000 to get nothing in return but a thumbs down. If you are suggesting that high value clients should have more lenient standards applied to their coins, I would be disappointed to have further evidence than the (in my opinion) over-graded 1933 MS65 CAC Gold Double Eagle in the news lately.
Curious how you feel about the two main TPGs and some of their business practices. I have firsthand experienced things that would raise anyone's hair but I do not wish to be banned so I won't go into details or name names. I'm sure many others have even worse stories. All that considered, isn't PCGS still the preeminent TPG?
They are not perfect either and I have called out things when I have encountered them. There is no perfect TPG. I had higher expectations for CAC but it turns out they are just like the rest.
You're missing the point. I didn't say that high value clients should have more lenient standards, just that certain circumstances require special attention (whales in casinos for example, or two of a kind coins to a TPG). I don't think that anyone bribed or anything untoward occurred, and anyone that thinks so really doesn't understand JA or the coin business.
CAC stickering has never been a massive profit making operation. That's why non-dealers paid nothing all those years for coins that didn't pass. Or why, even now, their shipping is half the price of PCGS'. The main point of CAC stickering, to quote myself, is "established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation."
To answer your question definitively, he stickered the coins because he wanted to. They likely met his standards for the coin. It's also fantastic advertising to get his brand on an ultra high profile coin. He is trying to build a business in CACG.
I think that there might be a handful people on the planet, at most, including you, who would give even a second thought to this coin receiving a sticker because the date is not normally covered under the usual stated service levels. I think almost no one is looking at a modern rarity and bemoaning that JA may not choose to offer his services.
If anything JA is doing a potential favor to the owner of the unstickered coin. Everyone would just assumed it failed like they do classic coins if came up for sale without the sticker. Can you imagine the pissing contest that would result in having people turn their noses up at a mid to high six figure coin as “not CAC?” 🤣
I love PCGS. I love CAC and CACG. Neither really matter to this coin. This coin matters more to PCGS and CAC than the other way around. It is one of two coins. It is ranked relative to its peer. Whether it is a 68 CAC or a 63 ni CAC would not change its value one bit.
‘’Yep. Now we all wonder what it takes to get an exception stickered, like the 2003 PR64 Silver Rosie in the pop report.’’
I don’t wonder at all what it takes to get such a sticker. I highly assume this $10 widget getting a sticker was simply an honest mistake. Same as a single USPI Peso - the 1905 in PR65. That coin is a fairly valuable coin, but I’ve been told it was stickered by accident. A mistake every 2-5 years. I can personally live with that margin of error. I wish I made a mistake every 2-5 years, instead of nearly every day!
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said: "Moderns” are coming into their own. It will just take time.
It seems that the Hobby terminology needs to change regarding where we delineate between what we call "classic", what we call "Modern" and what we call whatever falls between the two. When the term "Modern" was first applied to the subject coin it was about 35 years or less old, now it's 50 years old. At that same time, the 1955DDO was a "Classic" at about 50.
To me it would make sense to change the "Modern" line to mean coins struck after 1998 or thereabout to coincide with the time when the Mint co-opted circulating coinage.
Comments
We have $425k…..
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
$425k.
Any guesses at the price realized? I’ll guess $551,250 with juice.
$430k
I agree a big premium warranted, surprised at this high a premium. Just my personal opinion saying I am buying rare gold for this amount of bucks
At an auction, only two people really matter: The high bidder and direct under bidder. DL Hansen spent more than $300k IIRC for a MS68 common date Mercury Dime. This coin would be much cooler to me. I also would not be surprised if Hansen were either the current high bidder or underbidder on this. The sky really is the limit if it fills a hole in his set.
Why can’t I say the coin seems overpriced or not a great value. I am not personally criticizing buyers who want to spend their money on this item, or telling anyone they are wasting money
CAC stickers indicate coins that are "solid for the grade" not based on rarity. Or at least that's what all of the marketing materials say.
In addition to what I said above, at what point does JA lose credibility for deviating from published policies and rules? It's perfectly fine if he wants to sticker Rosie's, but why have a website that says you don't?
http://ProofCollection.Net
He's really under no compunction to do that. This is not some giant corporation brimming with lawyers and web masters.
It's a few dozen people reporting to a coin dealer who established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation.
He really doesn't owe any of us anything (which makes his amazing ethics and integrity even more laudable).
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
It would be more interesting to see what he prices it at for the tire kickers
If he wants to protect his credibility and integrity, he would operate in a more transparent and straightforward manner. If he wants to throw what he's built into the garbage and deviate practice from marketing materials and published policies, that is certainly his prerogative.
http://ProofCollection.Net
FINAL!
with Buyer's Fee.
And we have a winner @ $450k hammer!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
What happened to the buyer's fee? I would have bid more had I known there was no buyers fee.
edited: I did a refresh and now it shows a proper buyer fee.
http://ProofCollection.Net
the loser was the gc bandwidth in the last minute of the auction
Yep, I lost out on a coin I was trying to snipe.
http://ProofCollection.Net
There were 3 bidders at or above $400k, 2 others above $300k, and 2 additional bidders above $250k. It’s very nice to see so much interest even at higher price levels on a modern rarity.
It’s listed there now.
And how do you feel about every other business who makes an exception for high value clients/situations? CAC grades coins. They decided to grade this coin as an exception due to its exceptional nature. And you think that compromises JA's integrity and CAC'S credibility? I am trying to not be too confrontational but that is not a compelling argument.
Curious how you feel about the two main TPGs and some of their business practices. I have firsthand experienced things that would raise anyone's hair but I do not wish to be banned so I won't go into details or name names. I'm sure many others have even worse stories. All that considered, isn't PCGS still the preeminent TPG?
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Why do I see this when I go to the GC auction?
Maybe CACG for the CAC only crowd.
Congratulations to Ian and his team on achieving this record price on this modern coin. He marketed this coin with a target price goal of a half million dollars and nailed it! I’m sure the family who owned this coin for over 4 decades is thrilled with the marketing efforts of GC! I know I would have been.
Wondercoin.
One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉
Additionally, I don’t hear many collectors talking about the artistic 20th century design of Barber dimes or their huge collector base. But that aside, due to the restricted population, hardly any collectors of Barber dimes pursue or buy an 1894-S. On the other hand, many collectors of rarities have interest in them. The same goes for the 1975 no-S dimes.
And please stop with bologna like “Prove me wrong”. If someone challenged you to do the same, how would you go about it even if you cared to try?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To each his own but for that kind of money I would rather have a very nice 1792 Half Disme or a very nice 1793 Chain Cent.
they may already be owned
I agree with @MFeld. Miss Liberty on Barber coinage (minus the V nickel) is rather homely looking. I think on one thread, I (along with other posters) speculated that the model for it may have been a 19th century transvestite.
When you deviate from your published and publicized standards and policies, it reduces integrity and credibility. To what extent is debatable, but when you know that what is stated is not what is practiced, you can no longer 100% rely on what they say and publish. Do with that what you will. Some will ignore it, some will file that away and bring it back out next time there is doubt. For instance, if I owned a 1968 No-S dime which is pretty rare and special, will he sticker it? Do I have to bribe him? What does it take? Why did he sticker 2 2003-S PR64 Silver dimes (one CAM, one DCAM) and why did that collector/owner get special treatment? It's not good to have your customers asking these types of questions about your operation.
Edited to add: I don't buy that these companies need to cater to "high value clients." It costs $1000 at CAC to have that dime graded or stickered. Unless you're having a ton of these coins graded, it shouldn't be a big part of the CAC income stream as I just don't think there's that much volume there to be had in that tier. I would expect that the bread and butter is the high volume economy tier. But certainly I would expect JA to hold his standards and fail to sticker roughly half of the coins submitted in the Rarity tier meaning people are paying $1000 to get nothing in return but a thumbs down. If you are suggesting that high value clients should have more lenient standards applied to their coins, I would be disappointed to have further evidence than the (in my opinion) over-graded 1933 MS65 CAC Gold Double Eagle in the news lately.
They are not perfect either and I have called out things when I have encountered them. There is no perfect TPG. I had higher expectations for CAC but it turns out they are just like the rest.
http://ProofCollection.Net
‘’One of the two coins I asked you about was the 1894-S dime. In case you weren’t aware, it’s not bigger than a 1975 dime. 😉’’
I had the privilege and the honor in my career to sell the finest known 1894-S Dime (directly to John F. who I seem to recall was the agent at the time for one of the greatest coin dealers of our time) and to sell the finest known 1975 No S dime to the greatest Roosevelt dime collector ever. Both events were equally rewarding and special to me in their own way and certainly two of the highlights of my numismatic career as a collector and dealer.
“Moderns” are coming into their own. It will just take time. They will (likely) never be worth the value of the greatest classics, just as the Mona Lisa painting would (likely) sell for BILLIONS OF DOLLARS if France ever wanted to “put it on the block” and the greatest modern art is worth about 1/10 that amount. Still modern art is a fabulous growing collectible field as is modern coins.
Explains why “Elite” recently became the #1 Registry set holder of MS State Quarters- yes, you read that correctly! My mid-term goal will be to happily “tuck into” the #2 slot right behind him.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Okay I don’t want to argue with you anymore. My only point was it is an esoteric modern rarity in comparison to better known more famous coins. For my money I am buying a rare proof gold coin or a 1893 S if available
Please. You returned an $80.00 Walker because you were frightened it might not CAC.
"For my money." Honestly. . .
So what is your long term goal? Does Elite have to worry or be happy?
You can buy whatever you want. Please extend the same courtesy to everyone else.
He never said he would spend more than $80 on them...
Never returned any Walker you are misinformed
I didn't say you did.
‘’So what is your long term goal? Does Elite have to worry or be happy?’’
OREVILLE- At our ages, we only have short and mid-term goals. Long term goals are “out the window”. Yes or no? 🤣
Wondercoin
You're missing the point. I didn't say that high value clients should have more lenient standards, just that certain circumstances require special attention (whales in casinos for example, or two of a kind coins to a TPG). I don't think that anyone bribed or anything untoward occurred, and anyone that thinks so really doesn't understand JA or the coin business.
CAC stickering has never been a massive profit making operation. That's why non-dealers paid nothing all those years for coins that didn't pass. Or why, even now, their shipping is half the price of PCGS'. The main point of CAC stickering, to quote myself, is "established this business to help himself be able to confidently buy coins sight unseen during a period of heavy gradeflation."
To answer your question definitively, he stickered the coins because he wanted to. They likely met his standards for the coin. It's also fantastic advertising to get his brand on an ultra high profile coin. He is trying to build a business in CACG.
I think that there might be a handful people on the planet, at most, including you, who would give even a second thought to this coin receiving a sticker because the date is not normally covered under the usual stated service levels. I think almost no one is looking at a modern rarity and bemoaning that JA may not choose to offer his services.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
All of that is fine. I don't really disagree with any of it. But why not just be forthright and add that to the "Coins we sticker" policy? Why not add, "CAC may, at its own discretion, sticker coins that are not on this list. Contact us to see if yours is good enough" to the website? Or better yet he could just open up the policy to any coin that is reasonably worth 6 figures. Whatever the actual criteria is. That would bring full transparency and be very easy to do. Instead, he operates with a set of rules or policies that he refuses to disclose to the public. That is shady no matter how you look at it. Why the secret criteria? And what's up with the 2003 Proof Silver dimes? People want to give them a pass because they think he is God's gift to numismatics. We need to let these companies know that we demand and deserve transparency, honesty, and fair dealing.
If I owned the top pop 68 No-S dime I would be beside myself wondering why a 75 No S can have a sticker but my coin can't (assuming it is graded accurately and problem free). I get that they are not in the same league but a 68 No-S is pretty special too. There are probably several other examples. Where does he draw the line? Only CAC knows.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Proof collection: All of your points are reasonable (and Lermish has a reasonable position too). I would add the following:
The fact that this No S Dime worth 1/2 a million dollars was auctioned in a PCGS holder and not in a CACG holder speaks VOLUMES and I will leave it at that. The fact Ian had CAC sticker it was excellent diplomacy on his part. Think about just how diplomatic such a move was on Ian’s part vis a vis the 2 grading services. A brilliant marketing move - yes? It should have been a honor for CAC to get that invitation to do so from Ian. The fact JA acted upon it shows me JA recognized the benefit of Ian’s offer; nothing sinister I see here at all on anyone’s part. Win-win-win for all involved ESPECIALLY for the owner of the 1975 No S Dime where the duties lay.
‘’If I owned the top pop 68 No-S dime I would be beside myself wondering why a 75 No S can have a sticker but my coin can't’’
I own one of the much nicer 68 No S Dimes and I could care less what happened with the 75 No S dime. But, I will say to JA - why not agree now to sticker all No S modern coins (including my UNIQUE 1976 NO S Ike even though it is possibly a presentation piece - who cares- it is worth strong “seven figures”. Don’t take my word for it - ask Mike Byers).
Summary- the decision to auction the coin in the PCGS holder was brilliant. The decision to get a sticker on the PCGS coin was brilliant. The decision to allow the sticker by CAC was brilliant. The ultimate sales price on the 75 No S dime was exceptional. Here a text book example of everyone doing great work ultimately for the owner of the consigned merchandise! Well done!
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
A big price to be sure, but this is the type of coin that is best appreciated by those that appreciate it...LOL, a Yogi Berra statement to be sure.
Don't know why there seemingly always binary yes/no or black/white positions on these boards. To each their own...
Well, just Love coins, period.
If JA was worried about credibility and consistency, he should have responded to the invitation with either a) CAC doesn't sticker Rosies or b) OK I will objectively evaluate the coin (no guarantee it will sticker), and I will add the 75 No S to the list of coins we sticker. Instead he chose an undisclosed deviation from published policies. Why? Why weren't "a" or "b" palatable options?
Yep. Now we all wonder what it takes to get an exception stickered, like the 2003 PR64 Silver Rosie in the pop report.
I don't know that it was brilliant. Ian probably made the observation that many others have and that is that coins still sell better/higher in PCGS holders and especially in PCGS holders with CAC stickers. You can call it brilliance but it's just paying attention to market data and he has plenty. I'm not sure how you knew Ian was behind getting the sticker and not the seller, but it's standard advice to have CAC review all coins before selling, nothing unusual about that. The only difference would be is if Ian used his relationship to convince/coerce/cajole or just politely request a deviation from published policy. I would disagree that it was brilliant to diminish reputation and credibility by once again showing that you will bend or break your published policies and/or standards in exchange for publicity/free advertising. Doing "b" above would be been the right move and achieved a similar result (assuming the coin objectively qualifies) and doing "a" would have garnered additional admiration and respect.
I'm not convinced the dime sold for a penny more than it would have without a sticker or that it would have sold for more or less in a CACG holder. We'll never know.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Personally, I would prefer an 1894-S dime above this 1975 [no S] "proof" (although both are far beyond my meager budget).
This is because the 1975 [no S] "proof" doesn't really look like a proof to me. Also because I don't collect Roosevelt Dimes.
I once had a 1969 [Philadelphia] dime that was an early die state and it was proof-like. Many years ago I could only get a few dollars for it, even though it looked a lot like this 1969 [no S] "proof".
Of course, regardless of my opinion, the 1975 [no S] proof dime is always going to be a well-known, coveted, and iconic coin.
"There is no perfect TPG."
Agreed
"I had higher expectations for CAC but it turns out they are just like the rest."
Strongly disagree!
I suggest you look at your own credibility and consistency and not be so concerned with J/A 's.
I agree with Wondercoin, Ian did a great job of marketing this coin and getting outstanding results for the consigner.
If anything JA is doing a potential favor to the owner of the unstickered coin. Everyone would just assumed it failed like they do classic coins if came up for sale without the sticker. Can you imagine the pissing contest that would result in having people turn their noses up at a mid to high six figure coin as “not CAC?” 🤣
I love PCGS. I love CAC and CACG. Neither really matter to this coin. This coin matters more to PCGS and CAC than the other way around. It is one of two coins. It is ranked relative to its peer. Whether it is a 68 CAC or a 63 ni CAC would not change its value one bit.
‘’Yep. Now we all wonder what it takes to get an exception stickered, like the 2003 PR64 Silver Rosie in the pop report.’’
I don’t wonder at all what it takes to get such a sticker. I highly assume this $10 widget getting a sticker was simply an honest mistake. Same as a single USPI Peso - the 1905 in PR65. That coin is a fairly valuable coin, but I’ve been told it was stickered by accident. A mistake every 2-5 years. I can personally live with that margin of error. I wish I made a mistake every 2-5 years, instead of nearly every day!
Wondercoin.
@wondercoin said: "Moderns” are coming into their own. It will just take time.
It seems that the Hobby terminology needs to change regarding where we delineate between what we call "classic", what we call "Modern" and what we call whatever falls between the two. When the term "Modern" was first applied to the subject coin it was about 35 years or less old, now it's 50 years old. At that same time, the 1955DDO was a "Classic" at about 50.
To me it would make sense to change the "Modern" line to mean coins struck after 1998 or thereabout to coincide with the time when the Mint co-opted circulating coinage.
Maywood:
Modern Art: Universally agree to be around the time period of the 1860’s - 1970’s!
Go figure!
Wondercoin.