‘’I should have added that when there is a smidge of actual rarity it gets disproportional extra attention. You almost finish my point with your pattern examples in the next post.’’
Crypto: Thanks for amplifying and better explaining your position. And, I do greatly respect your expertise with many of the pre-modern series.
I think the point your are making (moderns with FBL that create great rarities, or condition rarities that can increase in price for a 1 point upgrade by 500x-1000x) first off has nothing to do with this particular thread. Here the No S dime in the undergrade just sold for only $10,000 less than I sold the PR68 coin to the top Roosie collector a few years ago. $506,000 (PR67) vs. $516,000 (PR68) - hardly a 1000x jump. Agreed?
Second, when you speak of $5 coins jumping to $5,000 coins (1000x) in some isolated cases of moderns where the condition rarity is a point higher than fairly common coins 1 point lower your point that this is “unknown in classic issues” I believe is a bit misguided.
When you have (2) Classic Mercury Dimes a few years back that sold at auction for nearly $750,000.00 that may have been worth $10,000 or $20,000 in the undergrade, you have the 2 coins having an added value of over $700,000.00 for one point!! Even with the 1000x moderns, the added value for 1 point is only $9,990. So, should I feel better for the “brilliant” competitors paying $700,000.00 more for 1 registry point in classics as compared to the “slimy” (or ill-informed) modern competitors paying $9,990 more for their 1 registry point?
Do you still want to try to convince me and this crowd that the incredible added price for a single point is Unique to moderns vs. classics? By disregarding $700,000.00 being paid by astute classic warriors at auction vs. “slimy” or ill-informed bidders shelling out $9,990 for their 1 added modern point.
Do you still really want to assert crazy prices for a single point upgrade are “unknown in classic issues” or care to modify your position?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
‘’but I sometimes think that modern coins are so common that collectors manufacture the slimiest nuance of rarity to increase relevance and significance.’’
Spoken like a true ultracrepidarian (with his sidekick Walkerlover).
Wondercoin.
That’s uncalled for. I’ll shrug it off since you apparently took it personally and I didn’t fully walk that point out but we have always been pleasant and supportive over the years so I find it strange.
I should have added that when there is a smidge of actual rarity it gets disproportional extra attention. You almost finish my point with your pattern examples in the next post.
But never the less it is my experience when people tell me how rare most condition rarities are in moderns where the under grade is a dime a dozen or that the slimmest of a better strike makes a 5$ coin a $15,000 I will always question if they are collection coins or points collectors. That phenomenon is not unknown in classic issues either but 1000x times worse in moderns.
The phenomenon I’m call out is when a coin is almost worthless or dramatically so without the plastic and oh crap way past my means pricey in it and I’m not poor. I wasn’t denigrating the 75 no S. I was more trying to articulate that if a 94s is cracked it is still what it is, the 75s has to hope to make it back in to plastic to be worth all the money. Broken known chain of custody or future impairment or a discovered 3rd example with no proof set and it becomes a big question.
That's a lot of hypotheticals. And if a bag of 94-S dimes were discovered.... everyone can play the game.
There are two known proof no S dimes. Plastic or no plastic. The first time they sold, they're was no plastic.
Now, you can ignore mint errors because you don't care. You can ignore date/mm because you don't care. All good. But the rarity of this particular coin is not manufactured. There are only 2 known.
That’s not true, a bag of 94s dimes would quickly be authenticated if markers aligned. An untraceable 75 no s, maybe if there is strong markers.
The 75 no S were found in proof sets and made their way to a connected dealer who established the story that got accepted by the community and the chain of custody of those two coins preserved back to discovery. If a random example came up without that it may or may not be accepted. But my point was in generalities and again as a finish variety it makes sense as Varieties are collectible and there isn’t much true rarity in moderns so nuanced differentiation is sought after. But make no mistake, without the back story & the TPG opinion it is worth a small fraction of the 500k. A reg emission issue doesn’t need those and that was more the core point. Nothing hypothetical about that but I’ll assume you were using a word you didn’t fully understand.
I’m not sure what point you are making other than to hear your self type. Nothing you typed really applies to my comments. I hope you aren’t as daft in person.
@Overdate said:
A 1975-S proof dime is worth about 65 cents.
The total mintage is 2,845,450.
The value of all the 1975-S dimes ever minted is about $1,850,000.
So the two 1975 no "S" proof dimes combined are worth more than half the value of all the standard 1975-S proof dimes. Wow!
Interesting observation.
Probably about half of the mintage is gone, degraded, or in circulation. Even though the circulated ones might go for $1000 on eBay I'd still say that the no-S exceeds the value of the other dimes put together.
I might add that a circulated '75 No-S dime is unlikely but I wager the odds are much higher than 1%.
But never the less it is my experience when people tell me how rare most condition rarities are in moderns where the under grade is a dime a dozen or that the slimmest of a better strike makes a 5$ coin a $15,000 I will always question if they are collection coins or points collectors. That phenomenon is not unknown in classic issues either but 1000x times worse in moderns.
This does not exist. Modern rarities are ALL uncommon or scarce in the next grade down. It only appears they are common one or two grades lower because the demand is very tiny and can swamp the supply in the highest grades.
A few moderns may actually be a little scarcer one grade down. If this exists it's because the high grades may have had help in their production. But if you look at something like '71 quarters you'll find a lot of junk and a few very high grades.
The phenomenon I’m call out is when a coin is almost worthless or dramatically so without the plastic and oh crap way past my means pricey in it and I’m not poor. I wasn’t denigrating the 75 no S. I was more trying to articulate that if a 94s is cracked it is still what it is, the 75s has to hope to make it back in to plastic to be worth all the money. Broken known chain of custody or future impairment or a discovered 3rd example with no proof set and it becomes a big question.
This is not true either. Just like 1804 dollars have value without being slabbed so does a modern Gem. I'm not sure how people got the idea that a Gem that wholesales for $2 is worthless without a slab or only trades in a slab. The price guides should do a better job of defining their prices. As is people read the guides and think moderns like a '75-S dime that lists at $1 is really a negative $19 coin because it must be slabbed to bring $1.
The markets may be insane but the collectors and dealers are not.
@wondercoin said:
‘’but I sometimes think that modern coins are so common that collectors manufacture the slimiest nuance of rarity to increase relevance and significance.’’
Spoken like a true ultracrepidarian (with his sidekick Walkerlover).
Wondercoin.
That’s uncalled for. I’ll shrug it off since you apparently took it personally and I didn’t fully walk that point out but we have always been pleasant and supportive over the years so I find it strange.
I should have added that when there is a smidge of actual rarity it gets disproportional extra attention. You almost finish my point with your pattern examples in the next post.
But never the less it is my experience when people tell me how rare most condition rarities are in moderns where the under grade is a dime a dozen or that the slimmest of a better strike makes a 5$ coin a $15,000 I will always question if they are collection coins or points collectors. That phenomenon is not unknown in classic issues either but 1000x times worse in moderns.
The phenomenon I’m call out is when a coin is almost worthless or dramatically so without the plastic and oh crap way past my means pricey in it and I’m not poor. I wasn’t denigrating the 75 no S. I was more trying to articulate that if a 94s is cracked it is still what it is, the 75s has to hope to make it back in to plastic to be worth all the money. Broken known chain of custody or future impairment or a discovered 3rd example with no proof set and it becomes a big question.
That's a lot of hypotheticals. And if a bag of 94-S dimes were discovered.... everyone can play the game.
There are two known proof no S dimes. Plastic or no plastic. The first time they sold, they're was no plastic.
Now, you can ignore mint errors because you don't care. You can ignore date/mm because you don't care. All good. But the rarity of this particular coin is not manufactured. There are only 2 known.
That’s not true, a bag of 94s dimes would quickly be authenticated if markers aligned. An untraceable 75 no s, maybe if there is strong markers.
The 75 no S were found in proof sets and made their way to a connected dealer who established the story that got accepted by the community and the chain of custody of those two coins preserved back to discovery. If a random example came up without that it may or may not be accepted. But my point was in generalities and again as a finish variety it makes sense as Varieties are collectible and there isn’t much true rarity in moderns so nuanced differentiation is sought after. But make no mistake, without the back story & the TPG opinion it is worth a small fraction of the 500k. A reg emission issue doesn’t need those and that was more the core point. Nothing hypothetical about that but I’ll assume you were using a word you didn’t fully understand.
I’m not sure what point you are making other than to hear your self type. Nothing you typed really applies to my comments. I hope you aren’t as daft in person.
Insults amount to surrender of the discussion. I'm sorry to see you tap out so quickly.
And if the 75 No S have strong markers...?
If I must amplify my "daft" point to clarify it. The point was and is that you levied a bunch of hypothetical arguments against the 70 No S, none of which may apply: it isn't a question of plastic or condition rarity or a 3rd example. You can create similar arguments against any coin you want if you are allowed to simply manufacture hypotheticals.
There are only 2 known. Period. Bid or don't bid accordingly.
@Maywood said: @wondercoin said: "Moderns” are coming into their own. It will just take time.
It seems that the Hobby terminology needs to change regarding where we delineate between what we call "classic", what we call "Modern" and what we call whatever falls between the two. When the term "Modern" was first applied to the subject coin it was about 35 years or less old, now it's 50 years old. At that same time, the 1955DDO was a "Classic" at about 50.
To me it would make sense to change the "Modern" line to mean coins struck after 1998 or thereabout to coincide with the time when the Mint co-opted circulating coinage.
What's in a word? When I started collecting in 1957 anything made after 1950 was "modern", a '50-D nickel was "classic" and a '16-D dime was "ancient".
Now I think of Egypt's so called 6th Dynasty and ALL coins as "modern".
1965 was and still is an enormous dividing line.
>
That's certainly the case for silver-to-clad coins, but I doubt that many collectors would begin their cent or nickel sets in 1965. And despite the metal composition change, I don't think many cent collectors would begin their sets in 1982 either.
That's certainly the case for silver-to-clad coins, but I doubt that many collectors would begin their cent or nickel sets in 1965. And despite the metal composition change, I don't think many cent collectors would begin their sets in 1982 either.
I've seen a lot of cent sets that stop at 1964: Hundreds of them. More stop at 1958 and many just peter out in the early-'60's with a few continuing into the early-'70's. I've seen almost no sets that start in 1959 or 1965. I know there have been many made but these just don't come into coin shops very often.
It's the same with nickels; they end at 1965.
People don't and never have collected moderns. when these do get into the coin shops the heirs are told to spend them or the dealers buys them for a nominal sum and puts them in the cash register.
What makes 1965 such a huge dividing line isn't the composition of the coins. These didn't change at all for cents and nickels.
It's the behavior of collectors that changed in 1965. Before this everyone was collecting moderns and saving rolls and bags for the future but after this nobody did.
Collector behavior still hasn't changed but now there are thousands of new collectors putting together sets. The number is still miniscule compared to the number of buffalo nickel or morgan dollar collectors but it is multiples of what it was 26 years ago.
@cladking said:
What makes 1965 such a huge dividing line isn't the composition of the coins. These didn't change at all for cents and nickels.
It's the behavior of collectors that changed in 1965. Before this everyone was collecting moderns and saving rolls and bags for the future but after this nobody did.
>
The behavior change in 1965 was due to multiple factors. The government demonized collectors for causing a "coin shortage". Clad coins began appearing late in the year, and many people shifted to saving silver coins rather than BU rolls. Mint marks were discontinued. Proof sets were discontinued, replaced by inferior and higher priced "special mint sets". And the BU roll mania, which saw 1950-D nickel rolls rise to $1,200 each ($12,000 in today's dollars!), began winding down.
Even so, lots of people continued saving BU rolls. Many rolls from the late 1960's are plentiful enough that they are still reasonably priced today. Right now for example, 1968 BU cent and nickel rolls can be found for under $10, 1968 BU dime and quarter rolls for around 4x face, and 1968 BU Kennedy half rolls for less than 10% over melt.
The behavior change in 1965 was due to multiple factors. The government demonized collectors for causing a "coin shortage". Clad coins began appearing late in the year, and many people shifted to saving silver coins rather than BU rolls. Mint marks were discontinued. Proof sets were discontinued, replaced by inferior and higher priced "special mint sets". And the BU roll mania, which saw 1950-D nickel rolls rise to $1,200 each ($12,000 in today's dollars!), began winding down.
Indeed. The two date freezes were enough by themselves but with all the punishment exacted on collectors from removal of mint marks and cessation of mint and proof sets it probable wasn't even necessary to do much more.
Even so, lots of people continued saving BU rolls. Many rolls from the late 1960's are plentiful enough that they are still reasonably priced today. Right now for example, 1968 BU cent and nickel rolls can be found for under $10, 1968 BU dime and quarter rolls for around 4x face, and 1968 BU Kennedy half rolls for less than 10% over melt.
Yes! But almost all of these rolls were pennies and nickels. It's very hard to find rolls of clads. Even 40% half dollars demand a premium now days. there are very very few dime and quarter rolls. Their low price does not indicate they are common. Original rolls are impossible to locate. The low price results from almost no demand because everyone thinks they are too common to collect. Original1975 dime rolls are considered common but are not. '75 dimes in mint sets are invariably tarnished.
I've been lucky to have cherried varieties. I was lucky, not 1975 no S lucky, but lightning struck more than once for me.
Opening BU rolls bought over the years, bought because I thought they were affordable and then eventually finding goodies that I then sold for solid profits I used to fund error coins purchases.
I now realize the power and volume of variety coin collectors' way over shadow the lowly error coin collectors.
I own a few unique & significant errors, a few more under 5 known for decades, many under 100 as that's the nature of production errors. But none will ever achieve 1/2 million buckos with the juice. 75S no S 10c eye opening experience for me. Numismatics is a big tent hobby.
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The
I am glad someone agrees that this coin is overpromoted. Cool and interesting but not a rarity in the same league as other classic older major rarities. And the coin doesn’t even have the beautiful look of a deep reflective proof. Not condemning people who want to spend their money on this modern rarity. Crypto is right in his statement
You can also find people who will agree that the earth is flat. It doesn't make them right.
The coin is what it is. The coin sold for what most experts thought it would sell for. I don't see any "over" anything.
I have no interest in owning 99% of U.S. coins. I have no interest in dates or mintmarks. I have no interest in the 1975 no S dime. But I understand those who do and allow them to do what they wish without judgment. In a free market, everything finds its level.
I see nothing wrong with being judgemental. That is what a forum is for, to express opinions good or bad about coins. I never stated that the buyers were wrong or wasting their money in buying the coin, just simply critiquing the dime.
Too many people are thin skinned here. Nothing wrong with saying the coin is overpriced or overrated. Do I have to only say to every coin presented on this forum wonderful purchase congratulations.
I would add it's a coin not a wife or a girlfriend.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Three Sisters in Ohio Just Sold a Rare 1975 Dime With a Missing ‘S’ Mint Mark for $500,000
The owners inherited the valuable coin from their brother, who kept it locked in a bank vault for decades. He purchased it with his mother in 1978 to provide financial security for the family farm
Olatunji Osho-Williams
Staff Contributor
October 30, 2024 5:01 p.m.
A rare dime featuring a portrait of President Franklin D. Roosevelt just sold for more than $500,000.
Struck in San Francisco in 1975, the coin was part of a large collection of “proof” dimes. It was also one of two known examples from that set to contain an error: a missing “S” mint mark, which made the coin a valuable collector’s item.
On October 27, three sisters from Ohio, who owned the dime jointly, sold it through GreatCollections, an auction house that specializes in valuable currency.
“This is a very exciting coin for our company to auction,” Ian Russell, president of GreatCollections, tells Newsweek’s Natalie Venegas. “We’ve handled many trophy coins over the years, including two 1913 nickels and two 1804 silver dollars—but this is the first time for the 1975 ‘no S’ proof dime.”
In 1978, the three sisters’ mother and brother bought the coin for $18,200, amounting to roughly $90,000 today, according to a statement from GreatCollections. When their brother died, they inherited the coin, which had been stored in a bank vault for more than 40 years.
The family had viewed it as a “financial safety net” for their dairy farm, per the Associated Press. One of the sisters tells the news agency that their brother frequently spoke of the coin, though she hadn’t seen it in person until recently.
Short post to get the average character count per post back under a million.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The circumstances of its production and reason for its existence are a mystery and many collectors appreciate and pay for good stories and mysteries.
Why don’t you tell us what makes the legendary 1894-S dime or the 1893-S dollar so special compared to the 1975 no-S Proof?
@cladking said:
There are lots of very high quality and important world silver coins with mintages under "1000" that can be had for virtually spot price. I'm melting a lot of stuff with mintages over about 8000. There are no buyers.
Oh, there are buyers, just not at your price, and/or not in the particular marketplace where you are trying to sell then.
As far as the Internet changing the demand part of the value equation, when I was a young collector well before the Internet and cable shopping eras I knew that a lot of world coins had infinitely lower mintages than key US coins, yet they traded for a fraction of the cost. Value was, and is still, determined by supply and demand. Certain issues just don't have the high demand.
I know you're right but it always amazes me that people just dismiss the beautiful silver coinage of the '70's and '80's with such tiny mintages as "just NCLT". Or there is no attrition. Or there are more than there are collectors. This last is apparently true but I never predicted in a world with 8,000,000,000 people that there would be ample numbers of coins with mintages of 8,000. That's one coin for every million people and the demand is in many cases simply swamped. Even circu;lating coins and even US moderns have the same thing.
Here we have one '75 dime for every 165,000,000 Americans and the price is a fraction of the much more common 1894-S dime. It would seem there would be far far more collectors of clad dimes than barber dimes but obviously that's not the way things have unfolded. All valuable clad dimes sell for peanuts compared to comparable mercs or indian cents.
That’s the way it should be. It’s an average looking modern proof clad Roosevelt dime without any great collector base that even CAC doesn’t deal with. It has ONLY 1 THING going for it rarity THATS IT. Nothing exciting here. Compare that to the legendary 1894 S Barber dime is ludicrous. Or the large gorgeous 20 dollars gold Saint Gaudens which you could buy a rare date coin in high mint state condition, or a 1921 S walker in MS 66 which has a population of 1 or 2 etc or a MS 65 or better 1893 S
How many times are you going to diss the same coin in the same thread?
And contrary to what you wrote, the coin’s value is about more than its rarity. The
I am glad someone agrees that this coin is overpromoted. Cool and interesting but not a rarity in the same league as other classic older major rarities. And the coin doesn’t even have the beautiful look of a deep reflective proof. Not condemning people who want to spend their money on this modern rarity. Crypto is right in his statement
You can also find people who will agree that the earth is flat. It doesn't make them right.
The coin is what it is. The coin sold for what most experts thought it would sell for. I don't see any "over" anything.
I have no interest in owning 99% of U.S. coins. I have no interest in dates or mintmarks. I have no interest in the 1975 no S dime. But I understand those who do and allow them to do what they wish without judgment. In a free market, everything finds its level.
I see nothing wrong with being judgemental. That is what a forum is for, to express opinions good or bad about coins. I never stated that the buyers were wrong or wasting their money in buying the coin, just simply critiquing the dime.
Too many people are thin skinned here. Nothing wrong with saying the coin is overpriced or overrated. Do I have to only say to every coin presented on this forum wonderful purchase congratulations.
I would add it's a coin not a wife or a girlfriend.
@Goldbully said:
Smithsonian Magazine has their story to tell.
Three Sisters in Ohio Just Sold a Rare 1975 Dime With a Missing ‘S’ Mint Mark for $500,000
The owners inherited the valuable coin from their brother, who kept it locked in a bank vault for decades. He purchased it with his mother in 1978 to provide financial security for the family farm
Olatunji Osho-Williams
Staff Contributor
October 30, 2024 5:01 p.m.
A rare dime featuring a portrait of President Franklin D. Roosevelt just sold for more than $500,000.
Struck in San Francisco in 1975, the coin was part of a large collection of “proof” dimes. It was also one of two known examples from that set to contain an error: a missing “S” mint mark, which made the coin a valuable collector’s item.
On October 27, three sisters from Ohio, who owned the dime jointly, sold it through GreatCollections, an auction house that specializes in valuable currency.
“This is a very exciting coin for our company to auction,” Ian Russell, president of GreatCollections, tells Newsweek’s Natalie Venegas. “We’ve handled many trophy coins over the years, including two 1913 nickels and two 1804 silver dollars—but this is the first time for the 1975 ‘no S’ proof dime.”
In 1978, the three sisters’ mother and brother bought the coin for $18,200, amounting to roughly $90,000 today, according to a statement from GreatCollections. When their brother died, they inherited the coin, which had been stored in a bank vault for more than 40 years.
The family had viewed it as a “financial safety net” for their dairy farm, per the Associated Press. One of the sisters tells the news agency that their brother frequently spoke of the coin, though she hadn’t seen it in person until recently.
And what a glorious safety net that 1975 dime has proven to be. A 1975 dime with no 'S' for $18K in 1978 dollars wouldn't have been my first choice of where to put my money for making a coin investment but what do I know. The investing sister who did not see the coin she was investing in until recently didn't miss out on seeing much is my observation.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1931S said:
lmao if ten of these hummers suddenly appear in the market. Why stop at two?
Lmao if a Mint bag of 5000 1909 SVDB cents was found in a vault. Anyone can play the what if game.
It's been 50 years. Still only 2.
That would be great for the hobby if a whole bag of mint state 1909 S-VDB's were found and the finder was willing to share them with collectors. At least these actually have the 'S' mintmark like they are supposed to with no mint employee shenanigans having occurred.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
That would be great for the hobby if a whole bag of mint state 1909 S-VDB's were found and the finder was willing to share them with collectors. At least these actually have the 'S' mintmark like they are supposed to with no mint employee shenanigans having occurred.
There are lots of maybe's in life. Life is a may be.
Perhaps the shenanigans that created the 1913 V-5c's made an entire bag of them. Maybe there's a natural explanation for how the '75 dimes arose.
If we get thousands of more '75 dimes maybe we should think about how happy many people will be since they will be able to afford one. Even the darkest clouds have a silver lining.
@mr1931S said:
lmao if ten of these hummers suddenly appear in the market. Why stop at two?
Lmao if a Mint bag of 5000 1909 SVDB cents was found in a vault. Anyone can play the what if game.
It's been 50 years. Still only 2.
Not really apples/ apples, but...
As an aside, didn't Heritage handle a broken and individually slabbed BU roll of SVDBs a while back?
As to these No S sets... I recall Fred Vollmer saying that he was fairly sure there were more extant (but hoped otherwise for obvious reasons).
@mr1931S said:
lmao if ten of these hummers suddenly appear in the market. Why stop at two?
Lmao if a Mint bag of 5000 1909 SVDB cents was found in a vault. Anyone can play the what if game.
It's been 50 years. Still only 2.
Not really apples/ apples, but...
As an aside, didn't Heritage handle a broken and individually slabbed BU roll of SVDBs a while back?
As to these No S sets... I recall Fred Vollmer saying that he was fairly sure there were more extant (but hoped otherwise for obvious reasons).
It is apples to apples in the sense that it would absolutely destroy the current populations. As Morgan dollar collectors discovered in the 60s, a few bags of previously forgotten coins can absolutely change the rarity. The same thing could happen to branch Mint gold when the occasional discovery piece pops up. But it is silly to float hypotheticals as a means of criticizing this coin.
I still occasionally see unopened boxes. But the odds decrease with every passing year.
I also wouldn't rule out shenanigans. Both in one box is a little suspicious. However, i never heard of any connection of the finder to the Mint which usually existed for most suspected shenanigans.
It is apples to apples in the sense that it would absolutely destroy the current populations. As Morgan dollar collectors discovered in the 60s, a few bags of previously forgotten coins can absolutely change the rarity. The same thing could happen to branch Mint gold when the occasional discovery piece pops up. But it is silly to float hypotheticals as a means of criticizing this coin.
I still occasionally see unopened boxes. But the odds decrease with every passing year.
I also wouldn't rule out shenanigans. Both in one box is a little suspicious. However, i never heard of any connection of the finder to the Mint which usually existed for most suspected shenanigans.
The shenanigans theory has been floated a lot but I tend to discount that. I think it was a legit screwup personally. I also believe that there are more out there. At least a couple.
Insofar as effect on the market... who knows? When Binion's display of $10,000 notes was broken and auctioned, everyone thought it would kill the high-end market for them. It did the opposite. So you just never know, I guess.
@mr1931S said:
Never has there been so much fuss about a coin with no mintmark.
And this is why one shouldn't post to an 8-page long thread after reading something on the 3rd page. The comment becomes irrelevant to the current discussion.
I also wouldn't rule out shenanigans. Both in one box is a little suspicious. However, i never heard of any connection of the finder to the Mint which usually existed for most suspected shenanigans.
This is quite normal and to be expected, I believe. Of course regular production coinage two coins would spread out more. they might both be on the same pallet or the same bag but not the same roll. Mint set coins just don't seem to spread out like this much at all. If there's one variety in a box of 5 odds are thee will be one or two more.
It is apples to apples in the sense that it would absolutely destroy the current populations. As Morgan dollar collectors discovered in the 60s, a few bags of previously forgotten coins can absolutely change the rarity. The same thing could happen to branch Mint gold when the occasional discovery piece pops up. But it is silly to float hypotheticals as a means of criticizing this coin.
It is very common for old coins to dribble out of the woodwork for many centuries.
But people didn't stuff clad coins into the woodwork for any reason and if they did anyway the coins will probably be badly tarnished now because they don't stand up to bad storage conditions such as sitting in an old shipwreck.
People have the idea that anything might be in circulation but these coins are almost all shot now and are heavily worn and cull. Well over a third of the '75 proof sets have been lost or busted up. Most of the rest have been seen by at least a couple sets of eyes.
I see little or no motivation for hiding these if they exist. It's impossible someone was able to accumulate more than a handful. Due to the way these have been distributed among the population rather than collectors there is every chance that any "out there" would never be found and end up in a garbage dump after the dollar no longer can be or is worth redeeming.
I don't understand why this is much of an issue. It's been half a century and the odds of any turning up go down every single year. I don't remember one single person advising me to sell my old 1950-D or '13-D type II nickel because more might turn up some day. Such things can't be controlled and it is 100 times more likely with silver and gold than it is with nickels or cu/ ni clad. Sure, there are some base metal coins that might exist in quantity like '31-S cents or '82-nmm dimes but why worry about only coins made after 1965. 1965 is when people STOPPED saving new coins.
The only people with a legitimate right to worry about such things are the ones who spent a lot of money for a coin they believe (and I agree) is rare but the odds of more being found goes down every year. It's not as though every case opened after this time will have five of these coins. With all this publicity now is the most likely time more would come out and all I hear is a deafening silence.
@cameonut2011 said:
I wonder how many unopened 1975 (or even 1968 or 1983) proof sets there are.
There's a fair number. I had a sealed box of 5 a couple years ago. But the vast majority have been opened. At some point is just statistics. A million or two sets opened and one find. The odds are pretty low that one more will show up much less more than one. And I don't think a 3rd one will affect pricing at all.
@cameonut2011 said:
I wonder how many unopened 1975 (or even 1968 or 1983) proof sets there are.
There's a fair number. I had a sealed box of 5 a couple years ago. But the vast majority have been opened. At some point is just statistics. A million or two sets opened and one find. The odds are pretty low that one more will show up much less more than one. And I don't think a 3rd one will affect pricing at all.
I largely agree. I’m just curious if the publicity from this sale will have any substantial impact on the unopened proof set market or if that has already been baked into current prices.
Not sure if I buy the deductive logic. Unfortunately as obvious to all, this is a bog standard date. Just that a package has been opened and a cursory glance taken - not much of an assumption - it is quite easy to imagine might still hold a "no S" dime. Unfortunately I recall when these came out and confess to ordering one of each US Mint product at the time. What we were interested in were the bicentennial designs on the quarter, half, and dollar coins. The other three bore the merest of glances. And that was basically what all of my friends did. About 1980 I sold ALL of my proof and mint sets and even then did not even look for varieties.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars said:
Not sure if I buy the deductive logic. Unfortunately as obvious to all, this is a bog standard date. Just that a package has been opened and a cursory glance taken - not much of an assumption - it is quite easy to imagine might still hold a "no S" dime. Unfortunately I recall when these came out and confess to ordering one of each US Mint product at the time. What we were interested in were the bicentennial designs on the quarter, half, and dollar coins. The other three bore the merest of glances. And that was basically what all of my friends did. About 1980 I sold ALL of my proof and mint sets and even then did not even look for varieties.
This is a point many people miss. Coins that are dramatically different are noticed by every pair of eyes. Silver does not circulate in this country since 1970 because it is distinctly different and almost everyone will remove it. If it were circulating the ones we find now would be worn out instead of always being XF 1963-D's.
Back in the day a first strike Gem 1963-D was as likely to be spent as any other. Most varieties went into circulation and stayed there. just like 1883 nickels without cents are common in high grade and the much higher mintage with cents are quite elusive there could easily be '75 dimes without mint marks sitting in rolls of 1975 proof dimes. I always look. Most individuals who assemble these rolls look. But large percentages of the owners of '75 PR sets over the years are not looking. Somehow or other people got the idea that just because many are not checked that there must be many more. This logic fails in many ways. You can think of the sets that have been checked as a "sample". They aren't a good sample because they tend to favor older buyers, more knowledgeable owners, and more times on the marketplace but they are a sample and so far no more have been found. Statistically this implies it's highly improbable there will be more than another three found. Considering the high attrition of these sets going forward I'd put the cap at two probably. This isn't to say I expect more just that it's improbable that many more will be and it's impossible anyone has a hoard more than a few.
As has been pointed out more of a rarity can increase demand rather than decrease it. This publicity has already gotten more looking. Some of these seekers might want to own it someday even if there are more found.
I consider the whole thing a nonissue. Just like those who believe there are millions of MS-68 moderns that will come out of the woodwork if the demand increases this just isn't the way things work. There aren't even million of MS-65 because moderns were made so poorly and so lightly saved.
The number of 1975 proof dimes is lower and decreasing much faster than people realize. It's not just the ones lost in fire and flood but the ones that are degraded in circulation or through poor storage. We have a "consumer" society and 1975 dimes are consumed. And No-S dimes might well already have been destroyed. The reason many moderns are so scarce is the belief that there were so many made they aren't worthy of being collected. Of course this leads to not collecting them which means people don't know how scarce many are.
Sure there may be more but it's more likely a bag of nice gemmy '16-D dimes will appear than it is a horde of 10 No-S dimes will. Every year that people don't collect moderns another 2%+ of the '75 proof sets will be destroyed. We can't directly see the ones that are lost so we imagine all the No-S specimens in the ones we do see.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
I like the 94-s dime and it's history. Buying that ice cream cone for the dime etc.
Maybe we could start a story that the naughty Mint quality control inspector looked away to lick an ice cream cone he smuggled in, allowing the two 1975 S dimes to make it into proof sets as they crossed the conveyor belt when his head was turned.
Comments
‘’I should have added that when there is a smidge of actual rarity it gets disproportional extra attention. You almost finish my point with your pattern examples in the next post.’’
Crypto: Thanks for amplifying and better explaining your position. And, I do greatly respect your expertise with many of the pre-modern series.
I think the point your are making (moderns with FBL that create great rarities, or condition rarities that can increase in price for a 1 point upgrade by 500x-1000x) first off has nothing to do with this particular thread. Here the No S dime in the undergrade just sold for only $10,000 less than I sold the PR68 coin to the top Roosie collector a few years ago. $506,000 (PR67) vs. $516,000 (PR68) - hardly a 1000x jump. Agreed?
Second, when you speak of $5 coins jumping to $5,000 coins (1000x) in some isolated cases of moderns where the condition rarity is a point higher than fairly common coins 1 point lower your point that this is “unknown in classic issues” I believe is a bit misguided.
When you have (2) Classic Mercury Dimes a few years back that sold at auction for nearly $750,000.00 that may have been worth $10,000 or $20,000 in the undergrade, you have the 2 coins having an added value of over $700,000.00 for one point!! Even with the 1000x moderns, the added value for 1 point is only $9,990. So, should I feel better for the “brilliant” competitors paying $700,000.00 more for 1 registry point in classics as compared to the “slimy” (or ill-informed) modern competitors paying $9,990 more for their 1 registry point?
Do you still want to try to convince me and this crowd that the incredible added price for a single point is Unique to moderns vs. classics? By disregarding $700,000.00 being paid by astute classic warriors at auction vs. “slimy” or ill-informed bidders shelling out $9,990 for their 1 added modern point.
Do you still really want to assert crazy prices for a single point upgrade are “unknown in classic issues” or care to modify your position?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
That’s not true, a bag of 94s dimes would quickly be authenticated if markers aligned. An untraceable 75 no s, maybe if there is strong markers.
The 75 no S were found in proof sets and made their way to a connected dealer who established the story that got accepted by the community and the chain of custody of those two coins preserved back to discovery. If a random example came up without that it may or may not be accepted. But my point was in generalities and again as a finish variety it makes sense as Varieties are collectible and there isn’t much true rarity in moderns so nuanced differentiation is sought after. But make no mistake, without the back story & the TPG opinion it is worth a small fraction of the 500k. A reg emission issue doesn’t need those and that was more the core point. Nothing hypothetical about that but I’ll assume you were using a word you didn’t fully understand.
I’m not sure what point you are making other than to hear your self type. Nothing you typed really applies to my comments. I hope you aren’t as daft in person.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Interesting observation.
Probably about half of the mintage is gone, degraded, or in circulation. Even though the circulated ones might go for $1000 on eBay I'd still say that the no-S exceeds the value of the other dimes put together.
I might add that a circulated '75 No-S dime is unlikely but I wager the odds are much higher than 1%.
This does not exist. Modern rarities are ALL uncommon or scarce in the next grade down. It only appears they are common one or two grades lower because the demand is very tiny and can swamp the supply in the highest grades.
A few moderns may actually be a little scarcer one grade down. If this exists it's because the high grades may have had help in their production. But if you look at something like '71 quarters you'll find a lot of junk and a few very high grades.
This is not true either. Just like 1804 dollars have value without being slabbed so does a modern Gem. I'm not sure how people got the idea that a Gem that wholesales for $2 is worthless without a slab or only trades in a slab. The price guides should do a better job of defining their prices. As is people read the guides and think moderns like a '75-S dime that lists at $1 is really a negative $19 coin because it must be slabbed to bring $1.
The markets may be insane but the collectors and dealers are not.
Insults amount to surrender of the discussion. I'm sorry to see you tap out so quickly.
And if the 75 No S have strong markers...?
If I must amplify my "daft" point to clarify it. The point was and is that you levied a bunch of hypothetical arguments against the 70 No S, none of which may apply: it isn't a question of plastic or condition rarity or a 3rd example. You can create similar arguments against any coin you want if you are allowed to simply manufacture hypotheticals.
There are only 2 known. Period. Bid or don't bid accordingly.
>
That's certainly the case for silver-to-clad coins, but I doubt that many collectors would begin their cent or nickel sets in 1965. And despite the metal composition change, I don't think many cent collectors would begin their sets in 1982 either.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I've seen a lot of cent sets that stop at 1964: Hundreds of them. More stop at 1958 and many just peter out in the early-'60's with a few continuing into the early-'70's. I've seen almost no sets that start in 1959 or 1965. I know there have been many made but these just don't come into coin shops very often.
It's the same with nickels; they end at 1965.
People don't and never have collected moderns. when these do get into the coin shops the heirs are told to spend them or the dealers buys them for a nominal sum and puts them in the cash register.
What makes 1965 such a huge dividing line isn't the composition of the coins. These didn't change at all for cents and nickels.
It's the behavior of collectors that changed in 1965. Before this everyone was collecting moderns and saving rolls and bags for the future but after this nobody did.
Collector behavior still hasn't changed but now there are thousands of new collectors putting together sets. The number is still miniscule compared to the number of buffalo nickel or morgan dollar collectors but it is multiples of what it was 26 years ago.
>
The behavior change in 1965 was due to multiple factors. The government demonized collectors for causing a "coin shortage". Clad coins began appearing late in the year, and many people shifted to saving silver coins rather than BU rolls. Mint marks were discontinued. Proof sets were discontinued, replaced by inferior and higher priced "special mint sets". And the BU roll mania, which saw 1950-D nickel rolls rise to $1,200 each ($12,000 in today's dollars!), began winding down.
Even so, lots of people continued saving BU rolls. Many rolls from the late 1960's are plentiful enough that they are still reasonably priced today. Right now for example, 1968 BU cent and nickel rolls can be found for under $10, 1968 BU dime and quarter rolls for around 4x face, and 1968 BU Kennedy half rolls for less than 10% over melt.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Indeed. The two date freezes were enough by themselves but with all the punishment exacted on collectors from removal of mint marks and cessation of mint and proof sets it probable wasn't even necessary to do much more.
Yes! But almost all of these rolls were pennies and nickels. It's very hard to find rolls of clads. Even 40% half dollars demand a premium now days. there are very very few dime and quarter rolls. Their low price does not indicate they are common. Original rolls are impossible to locate. The low price results from almost no demand because everyone thinks they are too common to collect. Original1975 dime rolls are considered common but are not. '75 dimes in mint sets are invariably tarnished.
I like the 94-s dime and it's history. Buying that ice cream cone for the dime etc.
The stories, legends, and outright tall tales are what make these old coins interesting.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
I've been lucky to have cherried varieties. I was lucky, not 1975 no S lucky, but lightning struck more than once for me.
Opening BU rolls bought over the years, bought because I thought they were affordable and then eventually finding goodies that I then sold for solid profits I used to fund error coins purchases.
I now realize the power and volume of variety coin collectors' way over shadow the lowly error coin collectors.
I own a few unique & significant errors, a few more under 5 known for decades, many under 100 as that's the nature of production errors. But none will ever achieve 1/2 million buckos with the juice. 75S no S 10c eye opening experience for me. Numismatics is a big tent hobby.
The ice cream cone is a story, not history.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It was his daughter so it was herstory.
Or it was the story of the person who made up the story about the daughter and the ice cream cone.😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
POTD
peacockcoins
I would add it's a coin not a wife or a girlfriend.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Smithsonian Magazine has their story to tell.
Three Sisters in Ohio Just Sold a Rare 1975 Dime With a Missing ‘S’ Mint Mark for $500,000
The owners inherited the valuable coin from their brother, who kept it locked in a bank vault for decades. He purchased it with his mother in 1978 to provide financial security for the family farm
Olatunji Osho-Williams
Staff Contributor
October 30, 2024 5:01 p.m.
A rare dime featuring a portrait of President Franklin D. Roosevelt just sold for more than $500,000.
Struck in San Francisco in 1975, the coin was part of a large collection of “proof” dimes. It was also one of two known examples from that set to contain an error: a missing “S” mint mark, which made the coin a valuable collector’s item.
On October 27, three sisters from Ohio, who owned the dime jointly, sold it through GreatCollections, an auction house that specializes in valuable currency.
“This is a very exciting coin for our company to auction,” Ian Russell, president of GreatCollections, tells Newsweek’s Natalie Venegas. “We’ve handled many trophy coins over the years, including two 1913 nickels and two 1804 silver dollars—but this is the first time for the 1975 ‘no S’ proof dime.”
In 1978, the three sisters’ mother and brother bought the coin for $18,200, amounting to roughly $90,000 today, according to a statement from GreatCollections. When their brother died, they inherited the coin, which had been stored in a bank vault for more than 40 years.
The family had viewed it as a “financial safety net” for their dairy farm, per the Associated Press. One of the sisters tells the news agency that their brother frequently spoke of the coin, though she hadn’t seen it in person until recently.
Story continues here
I've got a dime with roosevelt on it
But is it medium rare or rare?
500,000 rare
Short post to get the average character count per post back under a million.
Can I get a little credit for the joke set up?
Maybe so, but it was from a long time ago.
A coin can be a harsche mistress...
No.😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And what a glorious safety net that 1975 dime has proven to be. A 1975 dime with no 'S' for $18K in 1978 dollars wouldn't have been my first choice of where to put my money for making a coin investment but what do I know. The investing sister who did not see the coin she was investing in until recently didn't miss out on seeing much is my observation.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
lmao if ten of these hummers suddenly appear in the market. Why stop at two?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Lmao if a Mint bag of 5000 1909 SVDB cents was found in a vault. Anyone can play the what if game.
It's been 50 years. Still only 2.
A joke well done!
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
That would be great for the hobby if a whole bag of mint state 1909 S-VDB's were found and the finder was willing to share them with collectors. At least these actually have the 'S' mintmark like they are supposed to with no mint employee shenanigans having occurred.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
There are lots of maybe's in life. Life is a may be.
Perhaps the shenanigans that created the 1913 V-5c's made an entire bag of them. Maybe there's a natural explanation for how the '75 dimes arose.
If we get thousands of more '75 dimes maybe we should think about how happy many people will be since they will be able to afford one. Even the darkest clouds have a silver lining.
Not really apples/ apples, but...
As an aside, didn't Heritage handle a broken and individually slabbed BU roll of SVDBs a while back?
As to these No S sets... I recall Fred Vollmer saying that he was fairly sure there were more extant (but hoped otherwise for obvious reasons).
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
It is apples to apples in the sense that it would absolutely destroy the current populations. As Morgan dollar collectors discovered in the 60s, a few bags of previously forgotten coins can absolutely change the rarity. The same thing could happen to branch Mint gold when the occasional discovery piece pops up. But it is silly to float hypotheticals as a means of criticizing this coin.
I still occasionally see unopened boxes. But the odds decrease with every passing year.
I also wouldn't rule out shenanigans. Both in one box is a little suspicious. However, i never heard of any connection of the finder to the Mint which usually existed for most suspected shenanigans.
The shenanigans theory has been floated a lot but I tend to discount that. I think it was a legit screwup personally. I also believe that there are more out there. At least a couple.
Insofar as effect on the market... who knows? When Binion's display of $10,000 notes was broken and auctioned, everyone thought it would kill the high-end market for them. It did the opposite. So you just never know, I guess.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
And this is why one shouldn't post to an 8-page long thread after reading something on the 3rd page. The comment becomes irrelevant to the current discussion.
This is quite normal and to be expected, I believe. Of course regular production coinage two coins would spread out more. they might both be on the same pallet or the same bag but not the same roll. Mint set coins just don't seem to spread out like this much at all. If there's one variety in a box of 5 odds are thee will be one or two more.
It is very common for old coins to dribble out of the woodwork for many centuries.
But people didn't stuff clad coins into the woodwork for any reason and if they did anyway the coins will probably be badly tarnished now because they don't stand up to bad storage conditions such as sitting in an old shipwreck.
People have the idea that anything might be in circulation but these coins are almost all shot now and are heavily worn and cull. Well over a third of the '75 proof sets have been lost or busted up. Most of the rest have been seen by at least a couple sets of eyes.
I see little or no motivation for hiding these if they exist. It's impossible someone was able to accumulate more than a handful. Due to the way these have been distributed among the population rather than collectors there is every chance that any "out there" would never be found and end up in a garbage dump after the dollar no longer can be or is worth redeeming.
I don't understand why this is much of an issue. It's been half a century and the odds of any turning up go down every single year. I don't remember one single person advising me to sell my old 1950-D or '13-D type II nickel because more might turn up some day. Such things can't be controlled and it is 100 times more likely with silver and gold than it is with nickels or cu/ ni clad. Sure, there are some base metal coins that might exist in quantity like '31-S cents or '82-nmm dimes but why worry about only coins made after 1965. 1965 is when people STOPPED saving new coins.
The only people with a legitimate right to worry about such things are the ones who spent a lot of money for a coin they believe (and I agree) is rare but the odds of more being found goes down every year. It's not as though every case opened after this time will have five of these coins. With all this publicity now is the most likely time more would come out and all I hear is a deafening silence.
I wonder how many unopened 1975 (or even 1968 or 1983) proof sets there are.
There's a fair number. I had a sealed box of 5 a couple years ago. But the vast majority have been opened. At some point is just statistics. A million or two sets opened and one find. The odds are pretty low that one more will show up much less more than one. And I don't think a 3rd one will affect pricing at all.
I largely agree. I’m just curious if the publicity from this sale will have any substantial impact on the unopened proof set market or if that has already been baked into current prices.
Not sure if I buy the deductive logic. Unfortunately as obvious to all, this is a bog standard date. Just that a package has been opened and a cursory glance taken - not much of an assumption - it is quite easy to imagine might still hold a "no S" dime. Unfortunately I recall when these came out and confess to ordering one of each US Mint product at the time. What we were interested in were the bicentennial designs on the quarter, half, and dollar coins. The other three bore the merest of glances. And that was basically what all of my friends did. About 1980 I sold ALL of my proof and mint sets and even then did not even look for varieties.
Well, just Love coins, period.
This is a point many people miss. Coins that are dramatically different are noticed by every pair of eyes. Silver does not circulate in this country since 1970 because it is distinctly different and almost everyone will remove it. If it were circulating the ones we find now would be worn out instead of always being XF 1963-D's.
Back in the day a first strike Gem 1963-D was as likely to be spent as any other. Most varieties went into circulation and stayed there. just like 1883 nickels without cents are common in high grade and the much higher mintage with cents are quite elusive there could easily be '75 dimes without mint marks sitting in rolls of 1975 proof dimes. I always look. Most individuals who assemble these rolls look. But large percentages of the owners of '75 PR sets over the years are not looking. Somehow or other people got the idea that just because many are not checked that there must be many more. This logic fails in many ways. You can think of the sets that have been checked as a "sample". They aren't a good sample because they tend to favor older buyers, more knowledgeable owners, and more times on the marketplace but they are a sample and so far no more have been found. Statistically this implies it's highly improbable there will be more than another three found. Considering the high attrition of these sets going forward I'd put the cap at two probably. This isn't to say I expect more just that it's improbable that many more will be and it's impossible anyone has a hoard more than a few.
As has been pointed out more of a rarity can increase demand rather than decrease it. This publicity has already gotten more looking. Some of these seekers might want to own it someday even if there are more found.
I consider the whole thing a nonissue. Just like those who believe there are millions of MS-68 moderns that will come out of the woodwork if the demand increases this just isn't the way things work. There aren't even million of MS-65 because moderns were made so poorly and so lightly saved.
The number of 1975 proof dimes is lower and decreasing much faster than people realize. It's not just the ones lost in fire and flood but the ones that are degraded in circulation or through poor storage. We have a "consumer" society and 1975 dimes are consumed. And No-S dimes might well already have been destroyed. The reason many moderns are so scarce is the belief that there were so many made they aren't worthy of being collected. Of course this leads to not collecting them which means people don't know how scarce many are.
Sure there may be more but it's more likely a bag of nice gemmy '16-D dimes will appear than it is a horde of 10 No-S dimes will. Every year that people don't collect moderns another 2%+ of the '75 proof sets will be destroyed. We can't directly see the ones that are lost so we imagine all the No-S specimens in the ones we do see.
Maybe we could start a story that the naughty Mint quality control inspector looked away to lick an ice cream cone he smuggled in, allowing the two 1975 S dimes to make it into proof sets as they crossed the conveyor belt when his head was turned.
😢